Daily review 16/02/2022

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, February 16th, 2022 - 63 comments
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63 comments on “Daily review 16/02/2022 ”

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  1. observer 1
    16 February 2022 at 5:43 pm

    On a lighter note …

    Final series of Wellington Paranormal starts tonight. Great timing for the local police!

    Minogue and O'Leary are the cops we need right now.

    • gsays 1.1
      16 February 2022 at 6:36 pm

      That is good news. Minogue is one of those characters that I start smiling at when I see him.

      He was great (same sort of character) in the documentary (wink) Talkback.

      That TVNZ platform has to be the worst streaming service I have used, however.

  2. The Chairman 2
    16 February 2022 at 6:08 pm

    Any Catholics among us?

    Did you know the Catholic Church is also divided over vaccines?

    Cardinals and Bishops have been speaking out worldwide.

    Here is a important message from one of them. While it is directed at the Canadian protest, it also applies to us

    So for those that are interested to hear more, here is Archbishop Viganò's important message to the Canadian truckers.

    And for the haters and those that aren't, please move along.

    • observer 2.1
      16 February 2022 at 6:29 pm

      Vigano. Trump fan. Totally reliable guy. Not much support from Catholics at all.

      Many Catholic leaders further distanced themselves from Viganò and his remarks, which the Catholic News Agency described as "apocalyptic claims about a looming spiritual battle and a globalist conspiracy pursuing a one-world government." Viganò accused Pope Francis of following the 'homosexual agenda of the New World Order conspiracy theory. (Wikipedia)

      • The Chairman 2.1.1
        16 February 2022 at 6:39 pm

        Many Catholic leaders further distanced themselves from Viganò and his remarks…

        'Many', yes, they do. But there is good reasoning behind that. Namely, funding.

        Even my local priest supports Vigano, thus many others do to. Some openly, others behind closed doors so to speak.

        By the way, associating him with Trump claiming he is unreliable is called playing the man. And most know what that means, thus what game your playing.

    • mac1 2.2
      16 February 2022 at 7:01 pm

      The Chairman, there is a reason, and I emphasise that word 'reason', why some of us, having left the Church for disagreeing with homophobic, misogynist. child-molesting, planned-giving taking, authoritarian teachings and practice, are glad that we left then, for we surely should now…..

  3. The Chairman 3
    16 February 2022 at 7:07 pm

    How has the segregation, vaccines and mandates impacted upon your life?

    I have family on both sides, thus it has created a divide within the family.

    I have a vaccine injured family member that can get his injurie acknowledged, thus no treatment for it.

    There is more, but this will do for now.

    So again, how has it impacted you and yours?

    • Muttonbird 3.1
      16 February 2022 at 7:24 pm

      How has the segregation, vaccines and mandates impacted upon your life?

      What segregation? The 5% unvaccinated are among us wherever we go.

      My booster laid me flat the next day, but am all good now. Apparently it's a sign of good immune response.

      I know a couple of former co-workers have been mandated out but struggle to pick who they were. They will be back.

      So, no impacts apart from a little inconvenience having to turn up 15 minutes earlier to work for RAT testing, and having to wear a mask at work all day.

      • The Chairman 3.1.1
        16 February 2022 at 7:41 pm

        What segregation?

        The one Jacinda so happily announced. You know? It is what it is. Seem you have no problem with that as it is only 5%. And of course not you. Is that correct?

        I know a couple of former co-workers have been mandated out

        Seems you don't care about them either. Is that correct?

        But good to know it's only a little inconvenience for you

        Tell me, do you struggle to put ones self into someone else shoes?

        • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1
          16 February 2022 at 8:08 pm

          I always care about other people. That's why I've done my social duty and become vaccinated.

          It is anti-vaxxers who refuse to put themselves in the shoes of others. It is incredibly selfish.

          • mauī 3.1.1.1.1
            16 February 2022 at 8:37 pm

            You care about others apart from the others who are no longer allowed into pubs, restaurants and attend their children's sports?

          • higherstandard 3.1.1.1.2
            16 February 2022 at 9:11 pm

            Muttonbird 2022

            "I always care about other people. "

            Muttonbird 2020

            I don't give a shit about Italy. The country is filthy. They all smoke. They all live with their elderly parents. Their health system is dire.

            Fuck 'em.

            • McFlock 3.1.1.1.2.1
              16 February 2022 at 9:37 pm

              Nice how some people improve themselves over the years, innit. Especially when they alter views in the light of new evidence.

              • Muttonbird …
                17 February 2022 at 5:02 am

                Yep, guilty. I certainly was a sceptic for about a week. This was before the NZ government announced Covid support.

                I was terrified we were all going to have to live off savings.

            • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1.2.2
              17 February 2022 at 4:57 am

              Shucks, another fan with all my quotes on seed dial.

              Covid deaths/million:

              Italy – 2515

              NZ – 11

          • Rosemary McDonald 3.1.1.1.3
            16 February 2022 at 9:40 pm

            Of course you are following the weekly fortnightly monthly Medsafe reports?

            You'll be aware then that in the month covered in the latest report the number of reports of anaphylaxis has tripled. Yes, tripled.

            For the year to 31st December 2021 there were 112 reports of anaphylaxis from the Pfizer product. To the 31st January…353.

            Let that sink in for a bit.

            The number of reports of Myo/pericarditis has gone up too…from 455 to 561…but its still very rare/sarc

            Deaths up from 133 to 147… but of course they're only acknowledging two of them.

            But you're all good Muttonbird?

            That's all that matters then.

            • Shanreagh 3.1.1.1.3.1
              17 February 2022 at 12:37 am

              As you are very well aware these Vaers posts are self reported and any and all sorts of rubbish not caused by the vaccines are posted there.

              The only things worth looking at are the figures that have been analysed. It is just raw data. I only pay attention to the analyses. As the topic has been discussed on here exhaustively I can only assume that you are disregarding the value and limitations of this reporting for your own purposes.

              So I am very happy with my vaccination experiences.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                17 February 2022 at 9:54 am

                As you are very well aware these Vaers posts are self reported and any and all sorts of rubbish not caused by the vaccines are posted there.

                Again. Where are the moderators when someone is writing rubbish? Telling lies and spreading gross misinformation?

                The links I provided….did you actually bother to open and read them?

                This is NZ…not the US where VAERS is the official government vaccine adverse reaction reporting system. Reporting to VAERS, incidentally, is by no means a simple process and some argue it is made even more difficult for doctors and others who are time constrained as if the multi- page form is not completed in one session and you are timed, out all your entries are lost and you have to begin again. However, I digress.

                If you had bothered to open the links and actually read your way through the reports you would have found the very handy list of how many of which type of person is reporting. Public…less than half. Professionals make up the majority of the balance.

                A bit rude and disrespectful dismissing their reports as "rubbish".

                This is not 'raw data' in the main. It has been sorted and categorized and the huge bulk of reports have been deemed inconsequential.

                The the facts remain…the total number of reported cases of anaphylaxis has tripled in one month.

                Of that you have nothing to say. You are just keyboard gumbeating.

                Delighted that your vaccination experience was painless and positive.

                Of course, in Shanreagh world, only Shanreagh's experiences count.

                Be kind, eh.

                • Shanreagh …
                  17 February 2022 at 12:12 pm

                  Rosemary, we have been through the value or not of these reports many many times on TS.

                  I actually follow them too.

                  Public patients are by far the most 21, 000 odd. This is what I call raw data and these are among the ones that will be researched to see if they meet the criteria.

                  We have had two deaths, subject to Coroners opinions. Many treatments or procedures have averse consequences, just try reading the Medsafe leaflet for any commonly prescribed tablets etc.

                  Unlike you I don't have any great faith in my fellow country people to know the causation/correlation between the vaccines and illnesses. However without anyone providing the raw data we would not have the material for professionals to work through.

                  I think that for people in the street to make conclusions when they know nothing about the topic is what I call rubbish.

                  From what I can see the database is just being sorted by the owners of the database. This is commonly done when any public comments are sought and people are looking through them.

                  Any day of the week you can look at local authorities/govt depts who have sought comments or input from the public. Any day of the week these are being sorted and any day of the week they are being analysed after they have been grouped. Some of the comments/input sought are time limited others are ongoing.

                  Until the reports behind the collection of inputs are analysed then it is just that, a collection of inputs. The so-called analysing at this stage by unqualified members of the public and the extrapolation that goes on is what I call 'rubbish'

          • Shanreagh 3.1.1.1.4
            17 February 2022 at 12:30 am

            The Pope, who surely is worth more than the rest put together, has supported the vaccines.

            I am not a Catholic but surely the view of the Pope is more important that the view of a couple of Bishops?

            Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is a key tenet…….as mentioned by Muttonbird.

            Not following the views of anyone other than what I can read & digest myself on the Canadian occupation. That a Bishop has spoken does not mean their views are better or worse than anyone else ie the view that opinions are like aXXholes and everybody has them.

            I must say though I would be dissuaded from thinking highly of anyone who supported Trump though you can find erudite and thoughtful writing from Republicans in days gone by.

            • The Chairman 3.1.1.1.4.1
              17 February 2022 at 11:30 am

              I am not a Catholic but surely the view of the Pope is more important that the view of a couple of Bishops?

              It's far more than merely a couple of Bishops supporting Vigano.

              I would be dissuaded from thinking highly of anyone who supported Trump

              That is merely showing me your one sided view and hatred of Trump.

              • Shanreagh …
                17 February 2022 at 12:16 pm

                No don't 'hate' Trump but fully declare and accept he is a nutter. Others often follow nutters, fact of life, unfortunately.

                Actually to be quite honest I am not really keen on religion being discussed here.

                I accept that clergy have opinions, as we all do. Theirs are no better or worse than my own…ie I give them no greater standing than those of my next door neighbour…..no actually I would probably give him greater acceptance as he is a surgeon .

                • The Chairman …
                  17 February 2022 at 12:51 pm

                  Fully declare and accept he is a nutter.

                  Again, showing me your one sided view.

                  I accept that clergy have opinions, as we all do. Theirs are no better or worse than my own

                  When many clergy all of a sudden start sounding like Alex Jones, one has to start wondering why.

                  • Shanreagh …
                    17 February 2022 at 1:14 pm

                    Oh dear Alex Jones you say…say no more …..taps side of nose.

                    You look at as many brain-optional pages as I do.
                    I don’t need a brain to follow the pages of those whose workings are the product of being brain optional. I find it lessens the time spent trying to fit their works into a rational framework.

        • miravox 3.1.1.2
          17 February 2022 at 8:32 am

          What segregation?

          What about the other 'segregation' that would exist if there wasn't a vaccine mandate? – the isolation of people particularly vulnerable to the virus? How do you feel about that one?

          It's a contest of rights. We're all choosing a side and there will always be losers until this pandemic is over. On the other hand, the mandates for workers facing the public also have the benefit of reducing spread and reducing the chance of another wicked mutation, and overwhelming the health system and its workers.

          Of course, there are difficulties that I acknowledge. None worse than those that would be imposed on people vulnerable to the virus, if vaccine mandates that are required for certain jobs and requirements for visiting public places, didn't exist.

          We've been here before, with the same challenges around vaccinations and mandates, especially in health emergencies. It won't be forever, but people who lose their lives in this pandemic won't know that, will they?

          • The Chairman 3.1.1.2.1
            17 February 2022 at 11:21 am

            What about the other 'segregation' that would exist if there wasn't a vaccine mandate? – the isolation of people particularly vulnerable to the virus? How do you feel about that one?

            It is already happening under the current mandates. A number are already making that choice as the vaccines aren't 100% safe or effective.

            One thing about the mandates, it has shown people how much the vaccinated can still catch and pass it on. Moreover, still end up in hospital.

            • miravox 3.1.1.2.1.1
              17 February 2022 at 7:53 pm

              A number?

              Many are reliant on a functioning health system. "A number" would be a very low number among people with underlying conditions, indeed.

              The effectiveness and risk of disease from vaccinated people has been debated elsewhere, so I'll leave that misleading statement alone for now.

              Crazy how some people think high risk severe ill health is fine for some but a vaccine that mostly causes a sore arm (yes, I'm aware of the extremely small risk of severe reactions) is too much for others to bear. It's like people don't know how numbers work.

      • aj 3.1.2
        16 February 2022 at 7:47 pm

        I have had zero reaction from jab-jab- boost. A slight bruise on the arm is all.

        All family and friends had jabs and did not need to be mandated. No divide.

        More annoyingly I saw a small number of people at the supermarket today strutting around without masks.

  4. Anker 4
    16 February 2022 at 7:09 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127791479/act-leader-david-seymour-speaks-with-parliament-protesters-as-antimandate-movement-tries-to-gain-legitimacy

    David Seymour showing some maturity here, communicating with the protesters who seem well organised and are trying to keep the unruly ones in line

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    16 February 2022 at 7:19 pm

    Well, Gordon Campbell's assessment of the situation is excellent!

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2022/02/gordon-campbell-on-freedom-and-government-mandates/

    • Anker 5.1
      16 February 2022 at 8:42 pm

      That is a good article Robert.

      I don't think anything is likely to come from the talks with the protesters, but I think if people feel shut down and no one is prepared to hear their concerns it makes things worse.

      The Govt would do well to discuss with the protesters at what point the mandates will end, or even say, they will end we just don't know when.

      Also what about trying to get people like the paramedic re deployed into a role where there is no contact with others? Even answering emergency calls?

  6. joe90 6
    16 February 2022 at 8:07 pm

    Apparently an highly experienced negotiator is going to act as a go-between.

    Kenny M, is that you trying to insert yourself?

  7. PsyclingLeft.Always 7
    16 February 2022 at 8:16 pm

    "Two of the girls held me and one hit me and after I fell on the ground, she … was still hitting my face and my body. I was waiting for the teacher to help me," Hoda said.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/my-hijab-everything-me-oghs-pupil-speaks-out-after-attack

    I feel …not anger…but sadness. The poor girl. I bet she's brave. Braver by far than her attackers.

    The school would not comment. I wonder what the school actually teaches ?

    • Anker 7.1
      16 February 2022 at 9:08 pm

      that was a shocking incident psychlingLeft.Always.

    • Peter 7.2
      16 February 2022 at 9:19 pm

      A couple of the kids reflect the sort of attitudes prevalent in our society and you wonder what their school "actually teaches"?

      The schools of the fraudsters we read about regularly, the schools of the murderers often in the news, the schools of those who rob dairies, the sexual offenders in the news: do you wonder what their schools taught them/teach them?

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 7.2.1
        16 February 2022 at 9:26 pm

        Ah, whats that about? These are pupils at a specific school now? And thats all I was specifically talking about. Anyway.

  8. Patricia Bremner 8
    16 February 2022 at 8:17 pm

    A few weeks ago QLD was where we are now. Over 1000 a day.

    Now it is 5200 odd today and 500 000 cases and 9 deaths. Keep safe people.

    • Muttonbird 8.1
      16 February 2022 at 8:49 pm

      Yep, but Mrs Hoskings says, "Omicron is mild".

    • tsmithfield 8.2
      16 February 2022 at 9:16 pm

      Sorry, but 9 deaths out of 500000 cases?

      Probably the common cold would have a higher death rate than that I suspect. Especially with elderly people who have very poor immune systems.

      • Koff 8.2.1
        16 February 2022 at 9:40 pm

        399 deaths in Queensland so far, up from 7 reported in mid December last year. Most of the deaths do appear to be in aged care homes and accompany other illnesses. Queensland dealt with the southern states' Delta outbreaks very well, but at the cost of keeping families apart due to strict border controls. The Omicron wave struck before the booster drive really kkicked into gear and caught the state (as elsewhere by surprise. How many long Covid illnessess and deaths would have happened if Queensland hadn't had such a relatively high vax rate and vaccination mandates in key industries as well as mandated mask wearing in public places no-one will ever know.

      • Patricia Bremner 8.2.2
        16 February 2022 at 10:32 pm

        9 for the day.

    • Treetop 8.3
      16 February 2022 at 9:26 pm

      I am concerned about Omicron in ECE centres, schools, rest homes and hospitals. The disruption is going to take a lot of management. Either people think for theirselves or they wait to be told what to do.

  9. Anker 9
    16 February 2022 at 8:44 pm

    That is a good article Robert.

    I don't think anything is likely to come from the talks with the protesters, but I think if people feel shut down and no one is prepared to hear their concerns it makes things worse.

    The Govt would do well to discuss with the protesters at what point the mandates will end, or even say, they will end we just don't know when.

    Also what about trying to get people like the paramedic re deployed into a role where there is no contact with others? Even answering emergency calls?

  10. Peter 10
    16 February 2022 at 9:13 pm

    "Protesters at Parliament say they've been offered the services of a "highly-experienced" mediator to act as a go-between with the Government."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-union-fears-more-confrontation-likely-with-protesters-if-vehicles-towed/VBDBKECYVAJ62OR7REDGZCGQWE/

    The mediation will be fun. Imagine the starting positions on each side of the table:

    One side: "There is no such thing as Covid, it's just an international plot to take over the world."

    Other: "Ummmmmm…."

    One side: "The vaccines are experimental, they are made from the foetuses of aborted babies and have microchips in them."

    Other: "Ummmmmm…."

    • Ross 10.1
      16 February 2022 at 9:34 pm

      Peter

      I imagine protesters will be asking for justification for vaccine mandates. Protesters could point out that more than 900 fully vaccinated people contracted the virus today, so the vaccine mandates are redundant and need to be rescinded immediately.

      • McFlock 10.1.1
        16 February 2022 at 9:48 pm

        Protesters could point out that more than 900 fully vaccinated people contracted the virus today, so the vaccine mandates are redundant and need to be rescinded immediately.

        1100-odd cases announced today, no?

        So 900 out of 4million, vs 200 out of a quarter million.

        looks to me, at a rough count, like unvaccinated people were three and a half times more likely to test positive yesterday than people who had received some vaccination. Sure, it's back of the envelope math with massive holes in it, but a sensible person might want more data on that before we call it "redundant".

        • Ross 10.1.1.1
          16 February 2022 at 10:27 pm

          When a large majority of those getting the virus are fully vaccinated, you’ll have to do better than suggest the unvaccinated are the problem lol

          • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1
            16 February 2022 at 10:52 pm

            The problem is covid.

            There is part of the problem we can reduce with almost no effort.

            Going by your number, if those 250k were vaccinated we'd have 905 cases today, not 1100.

            So today the unvaccinated were an avoidable almost 20% of the problem.

        • Molly 10.1.1.2
          17 February 2022 at 10:02 am

          Another factor, which I wouldn't know how to calculate, is that unvaccinated people are more likely to be symptomatic, and thus present for a test.

          They are advising now not to get a test unless symptomatic. For asymptomatic vaccinated people the testing will not be undertaken at all.

          Don't know how much of a factor this will be, but it is one.

          • McFlock 10.1.1.2.1
            17 February 2022 at 2:32 pm

            hmmm, fair point.

            The steampunk in me wants a brass slide-rule to try and bounce all these factors around. There were some amazing slide-based analogue computers before chips came in.

            • Molly 10.1.1.2.1.1
              17 February 2022 at 2:43 pm

              NZ has an opportunity at the moment to collect comprehensive and large scale data on Covid (resources permitting) that researchers will find valuable.

              I hope that when we get through this outbreak we will have some meaningful data to help our national response, and others.

              • McFlock …
                17 February 2022 at 4:00 pm

                Oh, we'll have the data.

                One of my favourite moments was looking through the ICD codes (because neeerrrrd), the international classification of diseases so if someone gets a stubbed toe, the ED notes can be translated into an alphanumeric code for analysis. Saves computer space/workload, and makes it possible to distribute anonymous data.

                Code Y365 relates to the cause of injury being the effects of nuclear weaponry in a time of war. The classification is decades old. Bureaucrats not only planned for "The Day After", they catered for hospitals to be able to still do patient notes, code the data, and then a bureaucracy to have analysts available just how many people were injured and killed by the apocalypse.

                It was just an observation that tickled me years ago.

                • Molly …
                  17 February 2022 at 8:13 pm

                  Thanks for that link. Will no doubt spend more time than I should looking at codes I'll never use.

                  (May give me kudos when I share with my nerdy kids.)

  11. tsmithfield 11
    16 February 2022 at 9:19 pm

    Something for a good watch, especially for lefties who want to see the ruling elite getting slaughtered….smiley

    A really good docu-drama on Netflix: The Last Czars

    Great if anyone wants to understand more about the Russian revolution. I certainly learnt a lot of stuff I didn't know.

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