Excuses/reasons, for not doing anything about children in poverty.

27 comments on “Excuses/reasons, for not doing anything about children in poverty. ”

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1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

   19 August 2017 at 7:22 pm

   What about the actual reason: “I am a bigot who wishes NZ had a man like Donald Trump”.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     19 August 2017 at 7:41 pm

     The reason why they’re using excuses is because they don’t want to confront the actual fact of their bigotry.
   • TheBlackKitten 1.2

     20 August 2017 at 9:38 am

     Stupid reply. I think it’s more that they don’t understand the many complexities of poverty in NZ and jump to these conclusions.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1

       20 August 2017 at 5:57 pm

       Which, when you think about it, is the very stuff of bigotry.
2. eco Maori/kiwi 2

   19 August 2017 at 8:02 pm

   Well lets see If we provider all the needs for our children and there family’s they will have a happy and prosperous future. If we do this we will reduce crime we will reduce the health bill we will reduce the jail population .
   Spend $1 dollar while they are young and save at least $10 later on in there life.
   Needs
   A warm stable house that the family can live in for 10 years at least so the children stay in 1 school for 5 years and there attendance will pick up and they will learn more

   A mother and father as mom is soft loving under standing carer Dad provides the protection and income and creates the working environment so the children will not settle for the dole.

   A education and trade when the children leave school and go on there adventurers
   they can fall back on there trade we no the young are reckless.

   A job jobs are real important for our youth as if they are working they wont get into as much trouble as they would when not working well payed jobs that is they wont work if they are only making $50 more than the dole

   And if our youth are working and well paid they will be less likely to join gangs .
   or go to jail and in three generations the gangs will wither and fade into the past as the gangs will have no youth to do there dirty work well there will be some gangs but not as much as we got now
   • Tamati Tautuhi 2.1

     19 August 2017 at 8:13 pm

     Agree 100% Eco Maori/Kiwi

     Getting our youth working, educated and earning a living wage is a good starting point, idle youth gravitate towards the gangs for companionship and belonging, many of the gang prospects come from broken homes.

     Something is horribly wrong in our education system if we have youth leaving school not being able to read or write ?

     Children are not born bad, they are shaped by their upbringing.

     Building more Prisons, National Party Policy is not the answer, we need to look to countries like Portugal and the Netherlands where they are having trouble keeping their jails full ?
     • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1

       19 August 2017 at 8:23 pm

       And the emphasis being on a LIVING WAGE.

       Anyone want to know why family’s are out in the cold this winter sleeping in their bloody cars ? Or crowded into a garage ? Or three family’s living in a house designed for one ?

       So lets have even MORE discussion about this lovely LOW WAGE economy Bill the Dipper English loves to rave about.

       Maybe he wont be so damn smug about it once hes tossed out on his ear this election.

       Sorry , New Zealand Initiative , … you backed the wrong horse,… again. This will be the second time the Dipper will lead National to defeat.

       Now,… about those govt backed union award rates…
       • eco Maori/kiwi 2.1.1.1

         19 August 2017 at 10:00 pm

         Yep old Billy thinks no one can read him His brother was the same when he was head of fed farmers. Sitting on there something something high horses looking at the sheep and rubbing there hands and working how much they will get from this clip.

         We need to run with one of Gareth Morgan policy and sign the Treaty in to the Constitution of NZ as the Maori that sign the Treat were wise but they put to much trust in the settlers. The English language has to many interpretation for some words which open them up to be cheated .
         If we sign the Treaty’s principles in to law they would protect every living thing’s rights . We should take care of all our tahonga Treasurers which is what Maori did Now do not be scared of that idea as it would ensure that all our Moko and Grandchildren will have a prosperous health healthy life.
         And stop most the changes that happen every time Labour and National change government That just slows progress
       • Tamati Tautuhi 2.1.1.2

         19 August 2017 at 10:16 pm

         Wonder whether he will get more than 23% this time ?
     • eco Maori/kiwi 2.1.2

       19 August 2017 at 9:16 pm

       + 1000 Tamati
3. greywarshark 3

   19 August 2017 at 8:32 pm

   Yanis Varoufakis gives a soundbite on how we can get out of poverty.
   You’ve heard of a Universal Basic Income – what is a Universal Basic Dividend?

   He’s for people being included which means we start valuing each other, not sorting through us looking for the best body and brain for the money.
   https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2017/02/14/yanis-varoufakis-on-bbc-western-democracies-need-a-new-deal/
4. miravox 4

   19 August 2017 at 9:20 pm

   Number 6 is my fave. Especially when I see heads doing a reflexive wise-looking nod in agreement and then the realisation that poverty is … oh, hang on

   (actually I’m lying, that second bit doesn’t happen very often)
5. millsy 5

   19 August 2017 at 11:09 pm

   #21 – “inflation and intrest rates will go up and will hurt the poor more”
   • Incognito 5.1

     20 August 2017 at 12:07 am

     22. Lower income and company tax and increase GST.
     • Hongi Ika 5.1.1

       20 August 2017 at 6:03 am

       GST hits the lower socio economic groups, NZF Policy on removing GST from Fresh Fruit and Vegetables is a good one, plus a 20% Sugar Tax if we are going to get serious about improving health in this country ?
       • greywarshark 5.1.1.1

         20 August 2017 at 10:50 am

         I think it is an excellent all-embracing list. Are there any other rejoinders that people can come up with about ensuring that government distributes the fruits of living to ALL in the country. And I’m not saying that ALL the fruits should be distributed to others equally. Just a fair distribution to those getting less, and opportunities for them to get more for themselves, legally.

         But GST does hit the lower socio economic groups. Removing it from fruit and vegetables is not going to make a great difference to the poor, who are generally not in the habit of eating fresh stuff or great amounts of greens which seem to be a leading nutritional need. I think lower GST on V&F would assist the middle class most.

         But helping unemployed people to grow their own vegs, enable teams to connect with transport to the growing fields, so they can grow their own, meet others, learn how to cook new recipes, have some social and productive time, would be a good thing to do with that GST seeing we have it in place. Also they be allowed to do this by WINZ so that they can’t be called away at some employer’s whim to work for a couple of hours and not be able to tend their gardens regularly which is needed, and being able to start and finish their crops successfully would be one of their few satisfactions.

         (But better to reduce GST to 12.5% with 2.5% going off to regions that are sparsely populated to help with their clean water supplies, and tourist facilities seeing we are being swamped by these people who the government wants to fleece at the expense of the residents and environment. This would in turn, if done with local labour, provide employment for the people who pay the GST, a way of getting value back to them.)
     • Eco Maori 5.1.2

       20 August 2017 at 9:36 am

       Financial transaction tax would be the best tax but even Gareth Morgan wont try and champion that tax as the rulers of the world don’t like to paying tax,
       Our dollar is one of the highest trade in the world why because it can easily be manipulated by big banks
6. Keepcalmcarryon 6

   19 August 2017 at 11:19 pm

   I saw key interviewed about any regrets while in office, he said child poverty.
   Apparantly he was blind to his own policies of asset and state house sales, record immigration to add to housing unaffordability and low wages and the worst inequality rate change in the western world.
7. TheBlackKitten 7

   20 August 2017 at 9:32 am

   the issue with poverty in NZ is that is is more complex than poverty in a third world country. In a third world country, kids getting an education on a dirt floor in a hut will be grateful and will be well behaved. In Nz, kids living in poverty will be disruptive, abusive, disrespectful and will create disruption within the classroom. Result, you get the middle income earner thinking and believing a lot of those points listed above.
   There are many issues that create this situation.
   A. High levels of unemployment, No job means no opportunity to do better in life. No job means endless hours of boredom that leads to feelings of hopelessness, anger and depression.
   B. Lack of unskilled jobs for people that lack the ability to do anything else in the workforce. Now I know I am going to be screamed down for saying this, but I am going to say it anyway. Reality is, some people are not academic and only have the ability to work in unskilled labour. We have none of these jobs here, they are now all in China.
   Look a the times when everyone had a job, pay and conditions were better and crime was low. You did not have the society issues that we have today. Unemployment is a huge contributor to a lot of ills of society today.
   C. Welfare policies that don’t address issues in A or B and instead offer incentives to stay on it for life. Breeding for a living is going to pay more than the dole so which one would you choose if your only options in life were the dole or the DPB?
   D. Pandering identity policies that has seen all discipline removed from classrooms. So if the teacher has a disrespectful child, how exactlyare as they supposed to deal with this?how are they supposed to deal with a child that turns up to school hungry but they are not allowed to inquire into the home life as to why that child is coming to school hungry due to pandering identity politics. The reality is, when you live a life of hopelessness, smokes, booze and gambling are going to be your outlets. These vices cost money and take money out of the welfare payments so less for food. Pandering identity politics refuse to acknowledge this so this problem has gone unaddressed for decades. And the ones that suffer, are the children. More money will not fix this yet left wing parties are obsessed with this and seem to think it will. It’s a poor fix! More money does not and will not address ,the issues of unemployment, the endless hours of boredom, the depression and no social contact that working gives you.
   F. Neglected children that come from homes where there is no lovor or attention. Children brought into the world for the welfare ticket are a angry ,hurt and broken.
   No political party addresses the many complex issues that poverty in NZ today has.
   • greywarshark 7.1

     20 August 2017 at 10:34 am

     Black Kitten
     You know all the things you are talking about, have experienced, observed been told about them by credible others. But for god’s sake stop stating that people are breeding for welfare as in C!! You talk about hopelessness in D as if you understand where the parents are coming from. But you only really have compassion for the children in F. And again “Children brought into the world FOR the welfare ticket”!

     I suggest if you want to help the children, you consider the parents as undeveloped children grown to be adults. We know that it is inter-generational.
     What happens is that sex is a constant small pleasure or expected activity from the man/men in the woman’s life, they have no extra money for birth control pills from the chemist and any other costs involved to get them. Then they have to be taken scrupulously and how can they constantly do that with their constant worries, displacement and crises? Then condoms, their partners mightn’t want them, no use in trying to insist even if they are available. Then they both might be drunk or on drugs which is part of their coping mechanism.

     If you have walked in their shoes then you are not being understanding or kind to others still down there. If you have been close to someone doing this, it would be anger-making seeing opportunities for better gone past, not taken. But habits, acceptance of restricted lifestyle can be trained in and hard to break from. There are many cults that people seem unable to break from where they haven’t ever been in such degradation of life. It is just deep in your mind, habitual and each person who gets out deserves a medal and access to help as needed so as to continue on their upward way.

     You should emphasise that some people do get the strength and passion to change and spread their story, if they are willing to have it told, and even better if they wish to tell it themselves. And show others how to change also. AND press for assistance to help from government and agencies acting carefully to raise pride in their ‘clients’ so that the cycle is broken. We have talked about cycles for ages, but as a country are too inclined to see what lacks in the system, and talk about what lacks in the diminished person they see. Look for the good, not spread the bad as being a 100% situation for all welfare recipients with children.

     We have had neo-liberal economics for over 30 years, enough for grandparents to be badly affected, and parents and their children to continue on the downward slide of displacement from the expectations and inclusion of ordinary society.

     They have been affected by mass sackings and loss of production and physical jobs where once people would work doing useful things, earning and would also have had weekends together so they could live their personal lives. Now they are puppets jerked around by tiny hopes of possible hours of work, and the derogatory attitudes of employers and the hateful social illfare department.

     Don’t despise the people you are talking about. How can you describe their difficulties and not feel any sympathy and understanding? Too much sympathy would be wasted emotion of course, and be a tool for them to use to cope at their low level. But understanding and action, looking for ways to help the children and give the parents a boost to aim for better, would make you more useful to them and to enabling society to share your understanding of what is a big problem.

     Understanding their loss of meaningful life, control over their circumstances, their fall from the possible potential of a full, active, positive, usually happy life where problems can be coped with and surmounted would go a long way towards ensuring there were suitable helping mechanisms for the present, and less people needing that help in the future.
     • tracey 7.1.1

       20 August 2017 at 2:43 pm

       Thank you
   • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2

     20 August 2017 at 11:53 am

     Breeding for a living…

     Not only doesn’t exist, it isn’t even a lie you made up yourself.

     Stop being such a dupe.
   • millsy 7.3

     20 August 2017 at 3:41 pm

     Yeah, allowing teachers to waterboard their students, and having people pay 70% of their income in rent isnt going to do anything.

     And these 3rd world countries you speak highly of have no welfare system and high crime rates — imagine if the local Black Power chapter put up a barrier at the end of your street and charged you a toll to get through it….that is what the likes of Guatemala’s MS-13 do each and every day.
8. greywarshark 8

   20 August 2017 at 11:04 am

   Just thinking about taxation and the constant commotion about it. We need to adopt new ways of governing NZ, drawing in groups of people with interests in achieving better in some particular sector and feeding practical ideas to relevant departments.

   Taxation is one, I have mentioned an idea of working with Gst apportionment. If older retired people could take on the role of mentoring a particular project, in this case a tax project, we would have better results from our inputs and exercise of government power supposed to produce outcomes not at present being seen.

   I am very keen myself at starting a new level of service that people who are retired would aspire to. To have input from their own maturity and experience which would have to be added to by academic study which would ensure they understood their subject well, would be a great use of older people and give them much kudos and happiness in being respected and eventually seen as vital to a good running country and economy. Better than an isolated upper house. And we could think of making it mandatory that all politicians would have done a full or be working towards a full degree in politics including a big dose of humanities and social policy and sociology.

   He aha te mea nui o te ao. What is the most important thing in the world?
   It’s ultimately all about He tangata, he tangata, he tangata. (As you all know this is ‘The people’, emphasised. You agree with that surely? Remember you are one yourself, built very much the same as everyone.
9. tracey 9

   20 August 2017 at 2:40 pm

   ” “regrets included not being able to solve child poverty and other social issues.

   “You can’t click your fingers, a solution to every problem.

   “No one wants to see children that are hungry or without homes… I’d like to think we made some improvement there but the truth is there are very long term issues,” he said.”
   And John was never a long term kind of a guy. More a day to day poll kind of guy
   • Incognito 9.1

     20 August 2017 at 5:51 pm

     Most disingenuous comments. National has been bickering about the definition of poverty, arguing that it is too hard, and steadfastly refused to accept that we have a housing crisis. If this is Sir John’s idea of a mea culpa than the guy is either delusional & in denial or dishonest.
10. Michael who failed Civics 10

    20 August 2017 at 11:09 pm

    Has Labour adopted a definition of poverty, against which its performance can be measured?

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