Guardian at the gate

82 comments on “Guardian at the gate ”

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1. tracey 1

   3 August 2013 at 9:04 am

   Customers??
2. Rosetinted 2

   3 August 2013 at 9:57 am

   Just makes me remember skits on the comedy LP of How to win an election or not lose by much by Leslie Bricusse et al with Milligan Sellers and Secombe I think.

   There’s one with a dozy old Brit politician who is in charge of maintaining relations, co-operation and intelligence with the USA. He keeps getting letters marked confidential from his counterpart in the ‘States’ about something called nuclear detergent. He doesn’t understand it but knows the Russian ambassador collects stamps and passes the envelopes to him.
3. Colonial Viper 3

   3 August 2013 at 9:58 am

   It’s an extremely shit situation. One critical thing is – we do not know at this stage exactly how far NZ agencies, officials and politicians have followed the US and the UK down this particular rabbit hole. From what I hear, it might be a fair distance in, indeed.

   I think we need to take the position that Dotcom’s extradition must not be considered at this stage until the role of the intelligence services and NZ/US government co-operation in relevant matters, is crystal clear.
   • UglyTruth 3.1

     3 August 2013 at 12:16 pm

     The UKUSA agreement which NZ became party to and the then secret NSA were born of the Truman era at the end of WW2. At the commencement of WW2, NZ was in line with Britain in declaring war on Germany when Poland was invaded, possibly in response to Polish belligerence and the oppression of Germans who found themselves in Polish territory after the treaty of Versailles.

     The key to understanding the nature of the security issues which led to the unprecedented changes of the Truman era is knowledge of the military operation which followed the surrender of Hitler’s armies – Operation Highjump.
     • Murray Olsen 3.1.1

       3 August 2013 at 9:56 pm

       So now you are blaming the Poles for being invaded by Germany? Something’s ugly alright, and that’s the truth.
       • UglyTruth 3.1.1.1

         4 August 2013 at 6:50 pm

         The Polish people in general were not responsible for the treaty of Versailles or for the call for war with Germany.
4. Paul 4

   3 August 2013 at 9:58 am

   9 11
   Cui bono?
5. travellerev 5

   3 August 2013 at 10:03 am

   But there are no backroom conspiracies here. No sir, modern governments would not stoop so low. yeah right!
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     3 August 2013 at 10:15 am

     Basically, the TIME Person of the Year for 2013 should be wearing a tin-foil hat.
     • travellerev 5.1.1

       3 August 2013 at 1:04 pm

       Or be shown for the people we are: Intelligent , critical and above all prepared to put in hundreds of hours of hard slog research into topics 99% of us are brainwashed to believe without any ability to resist and also prepared to withstand many, many years of ridicule, rejection and loneliness while staying motivated to keep on bringing information to the contrary of what most people believe in to as many people as possible.
6. aerobubble 6

   3 August 2013 at 10:14 am

   Key has failed to find the leaker of the Kitteridge report. Tick.
   Key has undermined press freedom. Tick.
   Key has introduce a new low standard of legal government, the ‘arguably legal’ metric. Tick.

   A reporter runs with a tweet about the opposition leader about to be rolled, is he fired, is the current low poll Labour just received related, probably Labour said to the reporter your bias and f8ff.

   So what can we summaries, that our democracy likes alledged leakers of National security to hold the swing vote, likes to undermine its fourth estate, and undermine lawful government, and even reporters have no problem with spinning the polls.
7. RedLogix 7

   3 August 2013 at 10:37 am

   We are only at the beginning of this discussion. The advent of ubiquitous state surveillance is an entirely new and dramatic step in social evolution.

   Agriculture led to property, hierarchy and mass warfare. Hierarchy is by definition an asymmetry of political power. Ordinary people had to give up their freedom of movement in order to belong to the system.

   Capitalism enabled the property owners to expand their empires beyond the reach of mere warfare, their monopoly on the supply of money enabled the most extraordinary concentration of wealth in history. The privatisation of the commons which not only captured ordinary people to stay within the system, but work for it as well. Capitalism (and it’s handmaiden, empire) is essentially an immense asymmetry of economic power.

   Technology is now being used to again multiply this power, beyond mere capitalism. Their system is now unstable and requires an asymmetry of informational power in order to not only capture the labour of ordinary people … but their behaviour as well.

   This is not Peter Dunne we are talking about here. We will still be debating this in decades to come. We have reached a cusp where political, economic and informational power are converging into a global panopticon. Orwell, Huxley, Foucault, Vinge and many others all presaged this … and we’ve awoken groggily sullenly aware that their nightmares is now our reality.
   • Paul 7.1

     3 August 2013 at 10:41 am

     Panopticon – great word.
   • weka 7.2

     3 August 2013 at 10:48 am

     “and we’ve awoken groggily sullenly aware that their nightmares is now our reality.”

     Still waking up I think, otherwise the general public would be given tools to claw back some of their privacy. At the moment much of that information and those tools are still enshrouded in geekery.
     • Paul 7.2.1

       3 August 2013 at 10:50 am

       Most comfortably numb or asleep.
   • Colonial Viper 7.3

     3 August 2013 at 10:50 am

     In the 1930’s radical worker forces and groups (including lively socialist and communist movements) pushed the political-capitalist system to cede major concessions to the masses of people. Roosevelt himself said that his greatest achievement was the saving of capitalism.

     But those forces and groups have been systematically destroyed and co-opted, removing that mechanism for incremental, relatively peaceful, change.

     Paramilitary policing was then used to utterly destroy movements like Occupy. The tactics the authorities used to do so are now well known, and included things like emptying holding cells full of known criminals into areas used by Occupy protestors.

     Now the pan-opticon (in addition to economic uncertainty) is being used to suppress dissension from both the under class and the middle class.

     But we all know from history. The better the authorities get at holding back irresistable societal pressures, the worse the end pop is going to be for everyone.
   • Foreign Waka 7.4

     3 August 2013 at 4:34 pm

     http://rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
8. BrucetheMoose 8

   3 August 2013 at 10:46 am

   Does anybody know if ACC covers for psychological pain?
   This relentless insult to my intelligence by politicians is giving me a sore head.
   • weka 8.1

     3 August 2013 at 10:49 am

     Yes it does, but only for accidents. You’d have to prove that any damage done is accidental 😉
     • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

       3 August 2013 at 10:54 am

       Although, deliberate assaults also count 😈
       • BrucetheMoose 8.1.1.1

         3 August 2013 at 12:25 pm

         Thanks, I will be putting in a claim on Monday then. I will let you know how I get on with Judith. I have the feeling she won’t be pleased, but one gets the impression she is never pleased about much anyway.
9. tracey 9

   3 August 2013 at 11:28 am

   This weeks revelations mean the pm owes last weeks marchers an apology. They are neither misinformed or politically aligned rather concerned citizens prepared to say no.
   • tricledrown 9.1

     3 August 2013 at 12:38 pm

     This is the corporate republican empires only way to keep everybody in line no wonder they killed Saddam Hussein his secret police and spy network are the template for the New World Order that George H Bush signalled when the Berlin wall came down.
     Key& Cronies are the NZ area empires governors!
10. Dv 10

    3 August 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Well well well.
    Look at this.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10907672

    The United States has issued an extraordinary global travel warning to Americans about the threat of an al-Qaida attack and closed down 21 embassies and consulates across the Muslim world for the weekend.

    The alert was the first of its kind since an announcement preceding the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
    • Anne 10.1

      3 August 2013 at 3:03 pm

      Help… I’m having a cynicism attack!

      What an extraordinary coincidence – at a time when the whole world is talking about unprecedented covert intrusions into the lives of millions(?) of people.
      • muzza 10.1.1

        3 August 2013 at 4:06 pm

        The good news, Anne, is that with every new warning issued, more people start to ponder, just what is actually going on!

        Did john Key, know this warning was on the way when he made reference to AQ only 48 hours ago, it would be reasonable to expect that he did.

        I posted some links over on OM, which relate to the so warning, the way the media report such propaganda, and the way the warning is tied to the CIA arming of so called rebel groups, also known as AQ!
        • Anne 10.1.1.1

          3 August 2013 at 6:21 pm

          My cynicism attack has reached feverish levels:

          Just heard on TV1 the AQ terrorist attack warning will be in force at least until the end of August and wait for it…

          People are being warned to stay away from public protests.

          Oh my oh my, how convenient. I mean the odds are high there will be the usual bombs going off in certain dangerous places, so when it happens they will be able to assert they were right all along. Oh, the cynicism – it hurts!
          • muzza 10.1.1.1.1

            4 August 2013 at 8:11 am

            Anne, when the article was on, did it make the warning to stay away from public protest, sound generic, as if it applied to areas outside the official ME warning zone?

            If global protests become widespread, and they will continue to do so, it would reasonable to expect that there will be events used to target the protests, to spread fear and to enable the curtailing of legal protest. In NZ we already seen this happening, via legislation against on sea protests!

            Thing is, you can’t quash the number that are going to be involved, it simply can’t be done, but there is going to be collateral, and people are just going to have to accept that risk, or spend their lives under lock and key!

            It’s tragic to see, the very essence of what our kiwi forefathers were sent to die fighting against, still alive and continuing the same agenda, as it ever was!
            • Anne 10.1.1.1.1.1

              4 August 2013 at 9:03 am

              Anne, when the article was on, did it make the warning to stay away from public protest, sound generic, as if it applied to areas outside the official ME warning zone?

              The warning sounded to me like a general warning but I guess it was meant mainly for Americans. However in the long run it could affect the attitude of all nationalities which I suspect was in part the goal.

              I recall a similar warning going out to American’s everywhere before the start of the first Iraq War in January, 1991. It was repeated by the US Embassy in Wellington for Americans residing in NZ. Talk about overkill… back in 1991 I doubt anyone in Iraq had even heard of us!
      • travellerev 10.1.2

        5 August 2013 at 7:04 am

        But no conspiracies. No Sir!
    • travellerev 10.2

      5 August 2013 at 7:04 am

      But no conspiracies. No Sir!
11. Plan B 11

    3 August 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Looking at the picture of the ridiculous building the UK spy agency are in, very James Bond, tells you all you need to know about the mind set of these people.
    • muzza 11.1

      3 August 2013 at 4:03 pm

      http://www.washingtondcschamberofsecrets.com/the-worlds-latest-megalithic-structure.html

      Ridiculous, well no, not really, because the design of it, like the Pentagon (Pentagram), are designed with specific intent, it’s the intent which becomes intriguing, and open to speculation about.

      Similar to why, so many cities around the world , have an obelisk, why on earth is that, for example, what is the significance, to those who ensure they are erected?

      So you’re correct to ask about the mind set of these people, but a word of warning, once you start digging, its very difficult to stop, because the subject matter you will encounter, is broad, deep, and in my opinion, fascinating!
      • marty mars 11.1.1

        3 August 2013 at 7:40 pm

        Any reasonable person might suggest that the Megalithic dimensions of GCHQ are nothing more than a strange coincidence. However, there is one piece of information that makes this so unlikely that the notion is laughable. Look at the picture on the left. The red line extends from the very centre of the GCHQ building to the very centre of a small standing stone circle not far from GCHQ. This stone circle was only built in 2005! It is supposed to represent a piece of art and is located in a public park.

        The most curious fact regarding this very modern standing stone circle (most are in excess of four thousand years old) is that the distance between its centre and the centre of GCHQ is exactly 366 Megalithic Yards. This most certainly did not come about by chance. It was carefully planned. The stone circle, made of granite from Scotland, was planned and paid for by the company responsible for building GCHQ. Its position relative to the centre of GCHQ proves conclusively that the Megalithic Yard and Megalithic Earth geometry were perfectly well understood by someone as recently as six years ago.

        Now I’m not saying it isn’t all true but I go struggle with some of the reasoning. I think this becomes an issue because there are just so many angles and competing theories about who ‘THEY’ are. A lot of them are seeded to sow confusion. This dude may be righteous and may be correct, or maybe not – who the hell is ever going to really know. I suppose when the portals open we’ll be able to say “hey those fuckers were on the money” just before the bad shit starts.
        • muzza 11.1.1.1

          4 August 2013 at 8:35 am

          Hey Marty, agree with what you say – The link was only as a counter to the ridiculous building comment.

          Such constructions are built with intent (whatever the outcomes of the design may/may not be function), which is a practice that goes back to the beginning of time. Simply because structure are in the modern era, does not meant that same intent has ceased.

          As you say, there is much dis-info around, and I take no interest in who they might be, more of a what they might represent, or stand for!

          If you have not had a look at some numerology, and you fancy it, its interesting stuff, again, IMO.

          Enjoy your Sunday.
12. geoff 12

    3 August 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Just by commenting on the standard, are we at risk of being targeted?
    • yeshe 12.1

      3 August 2013 at 4:30 pm

      more correctly written this way I suggest —

      ‘Just by commenting on The Standard, we are being targetted. Are we at risk ?’
      • Foreign Waka 12.1.1

        4 August 2013 at 10:24 am

        Oracle in its Greek meaning…
      • Colonial Viper 12.1.2

        4 August 2013 at 10:31 am

        Considering what Manning, Assange and Snowden have sacrificed, I’m more than happy to comment here and do my small bit.
13. muzza 13

    3 August 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Ok, so the The Federal Reserve owners, control the GCHQ – This is no surprise.

    The owners of the global financial systems, control every aspect of what is referred to as civilization, the parts they don’t control, they are at war with, so as to effectively control swaths of the planet!

    You have to pay people to go go war, very few people will do it for free, including the CIA controlled , so called rebels, who are paid to fight!

    This is all nothing new, but its pleasing to know so many are experiencing the threat that humanity is under!
    • yeshe 13.1

      3 August 2013 at 4:32 pm

      muzza .. just so I don’t have to read everything posted, where are you quoting from please re Fed Reserve ? thx
      • yeshe 13.1.1

        3 August 2013 at 4:55 pm

        and aren’t they Slippery’s former employers?? …

        from Slippery’s own webpage, and lo, this was but 18 months before he returned to NZ ..

        “In 1999 John was invited to join the Foreign Exchange Committee of the Federal Reserve Bank of NY and on two occasions undertook management studies at Harvard University in Boston.”
      • muzza 13.1.2

        4 August 2013 at 9:05 am

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/aug/01/gchq-spy-agency-nsa-edward-snowden

        Hi yeshe, my comment is from the main article referenced for this whole thread, as above, but my reference to the FED was formed by the below extract from the same linked article.

        But the “customer” the agency frets about most is the NSA. In numerous papers, GCHQ reveals its need to keep the Americans happy, and how it regards this as an overriding priority.

        The Federal Reserve controls the debt (monetary) supply of America, but is a cog in the global Central Banking System (including the RBNZ), which means that it controls American industry from top to bottom. As the tip top of the US financial system, that makes (in my way of thinking), the FED, and thus the private owners of the FED, the customers referred to in the article – Think of it in the same context as, The Crown references heard in NZ/Oz/UK/Canada et al!

        Yes, and in John Key was invited to join the Global FX Committee, and along with many others who are the global banking cartel, Key has a very close relationship with Robert Rubin.

        http://www.newyorkfed.org/fxc/members/members_past.html

        2000
        John Carter, Lehman
        James Kemp, Citigroup
        John Key, Merrill Lynch
        Adam Kreysar, UBS Warburg

        The management studies, at Harvard, Stanford et al, is a common route for agents to be rinsed through, take a look at the paths of so called Business Leaders in NZ, CEO’s etc, MP’s who are registered as Parliamentarians for Global Order, and the so called US Scholarships which they receive education – http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/about-parliament/how-parliament-works/speaker/press-releases/50SpeakPressRelease201204131/young-parliamentarians-to-learn-first-hand-about-american

        In my opinion, many if not most of the so called business/political leaders operating in NZ, past and present, are representing the interests of that same customer, which the GCGH/GCSB/NSA et al, are owned/controlled by!

        Previously such contentions of mine on these boards have been met with much abuse, fear response etc, but I expect that may well have changed to a slightly more circumspect interpretation, given the coming to light of certain subject matter, of late!
        • travellerev 13.1.2.1

          4 August 2013 at 9:53 am

          What is also interesting is that John Key’s boss at Merrill Lynch Steve Bellotti served on the same Foreign Exchange Committee with non other than the infamous Robert Rubin who is generally seen as one of the most corrupt individuals to have roamed this earth and who was responsible for the repeal of the Glaas Steagall act. The act called into life to prevent the Wall street banksters from doing exactly what they are doing now: Gambling the entire global economy into oblivion.

          Robert Rubin also served as the CEO of Goldman Sachs and as the Treasury secretary under Clinton.

          1996
          Stephen Bellotti, Merrill Lynch
          Michael deSa, Deutsche Bank
          Christopher Kelson, M.W. Marshall
          Dino Kos, FRBNY
          Michael Kukanza, Nations Bank
          Robert Rubin, AIG Trading
          Julian Simmonds, Citibank
          L. Britt Swofford, First Chicago

          Take note: If invited to take place on this commission it is for three years so when Steve Bellotti left in 1999 it is more than likely he introduced Jon Key as his replacement and with John Key meeting with Timothy Geithner several times over the last couple of years it is very likely he was being told what to do by people like Robert Rubin as Timothy Geithner was his direct protegé.

          Here is a graph I made a couple of years ago about how small the top banking world really is.

          By the way each of these four banks mentioned in Muzza’s comment is now bankrupt or absorbed by the bigger banks making the remaining banks not only to big to fail but their CEO’s to big to jail or so we are told!
14. Sable 14

    3 August 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Our media have been brought and paid for, so has much of the mainstream press in the UK save The Independent and The Guardian.

    Its great to have this site to offer some perspective but it would also be good to have a mainstream site thats not a haven for neo lib journos. The public at large would then at least have the option of making an informed decision about who they should vote for and why.
    • Paul 14.1

      3 August 2013 at 6:21 pm

      Too busy watching the X Factor
    • Anne 14.2

      3 August 2013 at 6:30 pm

      Sable, a wee point of correction. It’s bought and paid for. Brought is to bring something…

      I’m sure you know as much…
      • Sable 14.2.1

        3 August 2013 at 7:19 pm

        Thanks Anne
15. tsmithfield 15

    3 August 2013 at 6:27 pm

    This is why we need a global spy network.

    Unfortunately, the world is not populated by tellie-tubbies and smurfs, although it seems that the left would like to see it that way.
    • Pascal's bookie 15.1

      3 August 2013 at 7:15 pm

      bedwetter.
    • UglyTruth 15.2

      3 August 2013 at 7:17 pm

      You do know what false-flag terrorism is, don’t you?
    • Sable 15.3

      3 August 2013 at 7:17 pm

      As far as I can tell they work for the National party….
    • karol 15.4

      3 August 2013 at 7:21 pm

      So the US government is happy to let AQ know they have intercepted some of AQ’s communciations?
      • tsmithfield 15.4.1

        3 August 2013 at 7:43 pm

        I thought my comments would bring out the conspiracy nutters.

        The obvious response from deluded conspiracy nuts is that the warning was put out to scare people into believing that the spy system is needed. The problem with conspiracy theories is that no matter what contradictory evidence is produced, the conspiracy faithful have a perpetual response that the evidence was manufactured by the conspirators.

        In this case, if a credible threat has been detected, then the responsible thing to do is to warn of the possibility. If they didn’t, then blood would be on their hands if people died when they otherwise could have been warned.

        Of course, it may cause the terrorists to change their plans as a result of the warning. However, I guess it is then up to the intelligence community to pick up on the change of plan as well.
        • Sable 15.4.1.1

          3 August 2013 at 7:59 pm

          When was the last time a so called “terrorist” undertook an attack on this back water, tsmithfield? Why would they bother “unless” we did something to provoke them. The majority of what you would characterise as militants come from the Middle East, specifically Saudi and Jordan. Why you ask? Because as I found out when I worked for Riyadh Bank the CIA has an enclave in Saudi and has been interfering in the wider region for years.
          • tsmithfield 15.4.1.1.1

            3 August 2013 at 8:21 pm

            “When was the last time a so called “terrorist” undertook an attack on this back water, tsmithfield? ”

            Just doesn’t have to be here. NZers can be the target wherever they go in the world. So, a global intelligence network that we cooperate in can protect NZers anywhere.

            “Why would they bother “unless” we did something to provoke them.”

            Given we have been involved in the “war on terror” including Afganistan etc, don’t you think that might be enough reason? Whether you think our involvment was right or wrong is another matter. However, it does give motive for us to be a target, don’t you think?
            • Chooky 15.4.1.1.1.1

              3 August 2013 at 8:57 pm

              @ tsmithfield …precisely why we should not have gone into Afganistan…it wasn’t our war to begin with …..There are some who would like NZers to be paranoid and involved in the so-called ‘war on terror’…then they can justify illegal spying on NZers for supposedly security reasons….when in actual fact they have more than likely got their eye on our economic assets

              Your arguments are all circular ……
        • karol 15.4.1.2

          3 August 2013 at 8:14 pm

          So asking a question about something in the news now makes me a “conspiracy nutter”.

          I guess I should just stop asking questions.
          • tsmithfield 15.4.1.2.1

            3 August 2013 at 8:18 pm

            Your question seemed to be a rather rhetorical one to me.
        • UglyTruth 15.4.1.3

          3 August 2013 at 8:24 pm

          if a credible threat has been detected, then the responsible thing to do is to warn of the possibility

          Right. Would you advocate treating a warning as being credible when the evidence presented in support of that warning was internally inconsistent?

          For example: Prior knowledge of WTC7 collapse by the BBC, Prior kowledge of stock market response by CIA, and WTC1&2 proposed collapse mechanisms inconsistent with known physical laws.
        • Anne 15.4.1.4

          3 August 2013 at 8:33 pm

          The obvious response from deluded conspiracy nuts is that the warning was put out to scare people into believing that the spy system is needed.

          And what is supposed to be conspiratorial about that Smithfield? It’s the kind of thing people do in their everyday lives when they want to get their own way over something. Translate that into a government or a ‘gaggle’ of governments and it’s highly likely they will behave in the same way.

          Only a week or two ago, Key was babbling on about about a Boston bombing in NZ – conveniently forgetting to point out all the mass surveillance involving millions of people didn’t stop it from happening. That, in itself, was a blatant attempt to justify this over the top new spy system.
        • karol 15.4.1.5

          3 August 2013 at 8:42 pm

          There seems to be evidence of something going down in the Yemen region. That is credible given the extent of unrest in the region. The “Global terrorist alert” headlines seems like overkill.

          This:

          The New York Times reported Friday night that American officials said the US had intercepted electronic communications among senior operatives of al-Qaeda.

          So they’ve got these communications, among those they have identified as “senior operatives”….. I would have thought the best response would have been some more covert operations following the leads provided by the communications intercept.
          • tsmithfield 15.4.1.5.1

            3 August 2013 at 9:02 pm

            “There seems to be evidence of something going down in the Yemen region. That is credible given the extent of unrest in the region. The “Global terrorist alert” headlines seems like overkill.”

            Yeah. The US should forget about the expense of a global spy network and just consult Karol instead.
            • UglyTruth 15.4.1.5.1.1

              3 August 2013 at 10:18 pm

              Because wisdom in matters of security is always measured in dollar terms, right?
          • Anne 15.4.1.5.2

            3 August 2013 at 9:33 pm

            Exactly karol.
            Overkill… over the top… it means the same thing of course. And it’s largely inconsequential whether it be at a national or international level. The outcome is the same.

            I remember reading about so-called “chatter” and the fact that it goes up and down all the time. At the moment we’re in an ‘up’ phase which probably does mean something is being planned, but previous levels of spy-ware technology was able to easily detect it without pimping and prying on every man, woman and child. That is a total travesty of justice, and will not make the world a safer place. In my view, it will end up doing the opposite!
            • tsmithfield 15.4.1.5.2.1

              3 August 2013 at 9:37 pm

              So, you don’t think the terrorists might have already worked their way around the “previous levels of spy-ware technology”? Don’t you think its a good idea to be keeping ahead of the game when people’s lives are at stake?
              • Anne …

                3 August 2013 at 9:56 pm

                Listen to Paul Buchanan tsmithfield. Missed him live so I just did so. karol has made it easy for you at 16.1. He’s an internationally recognised intelligence and security expert mate. He knows much more than you (or me) or the rest of you right-wingers with cogitative disabilities.
              • Colonial Viper …

                3 August 2013 at 10:03 pm

                If the answer you have is to become a surveillance state under the control of a handful of shadowy unelected officials with secret agendas, you better think fast and come up with a better answer.
              • UglyTruth …

                3 August 2013 at 10:33 pm

                So, you don’t think the terrorists might have already worked their way around the “previous levels of spy-ware technology”?

                What makes you think that you know what kind of technology is in use?

                Don’t you think its a good idea to be keeping ahead of the game when people’s lives are at stake?

                What reason do you have to think that you understand the nature of the game?
              • Foreign Waka …

                4 August 2013 at 10:36 am

                You need to heed the lessons of history. Here is something that might help you to make a decision what political color you are:
                http://rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
                • tsmithfield …

                  4 August 2013 at 10:52 am

                  I’m surprised how long it took for Godwins law to come into play. But, sure enough, it did.
                  • RedLogix …

                    4 August 2013 at 10:57 am

                    You don’t get to play the Godwin card as a way of pretending that there is no such thing as fascism.

                    Besides … did you get past the first sentence of the article linked to?
                  • Foreign Waka …

                    4 August 2013 at 11:15 am

                    Your ignorance is almost painful. I am not inclined to tell you that should change your opinion about anything, least your convictions. This is usually done by experience. All I hope is that NZ will not fall into this blindly by fear, angst and terror and the belief in omnipotent authority that gives the false hope to “be taken care of”. History tells us all a different story and it is one that we all shall heed.
                    • tsmithfield …

                      4 August 2013 at 12:12 pm

                      The ridiculous thing here is that it is not a case of black and white.

                      We already accept a lot of survelliance from the state and other organisations without complaint (e.g. IRD etc). Also, I doubt many here would argue we shouldn’t be attempting to gather intelligence at all about potential threats to national security. So, it is a question of where we draw the line.

                      I am quite comfortable with the concept of the GCSB supporting other enforcement and intelligence agencies in NZ so long as the action is sanctioned by a warrant. I am also comfortable with the concept of data being screened for key words of interest (e.g. “bomb”), so long as there is acceptable levels of monitoring and accountability for these powers.
                    • muzza …

                      4 August 2013 at 12:23 pm

                      TSmiths – The scared little coward!

                      Hows that demographic meta data coming along, old yella ?
              • tricledrown …

                4 August 2013 at 12:39 pm

                Weak excuses
        • muzza 15.4.1.6

          4 August 2013 at 9:27 am

          TS – How scared are you bro, and or very brainwashed, paid or desperate to make such asinine comments!

          Would you mind sharing some of your demographic meta-data. I’m interested to see which block you fit in, that will help to understand your position!

          Oh, and what’s your thoughts about the CIA arming the so called AQ Rebels in the middle east, covering up the gun running in Mexico, as well as the ME in Benghazi, and then having armed the so called terrorists, then issuing warnings about there being a so called threat!

          Look forward to your meta data, and your comments, about who/what the real terrorists are!
16. irascible 16

    3 August 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Is there any connection between Key’s al Queda scaremonger on talkback radion and the US world wide travel advisory warning of a possible al Queda attack on US properties o/seas or merely a coincidence that he’d been advised in advance of the US advisory so decided to claim that NZers were training in al Queda camps in the Yemen?
    Reckon Key thought he was onto a good thing and decided to play the great terrorist fear card straight from the Tea Party / Crosby-Textor playbook. No honesty from Key when it comes to diversion from his own culpability in the GCSB fiasco..
    • karol 16.1

      3 August 2013 at 9:04 pm

      Don’t know about Crosby Textor, but Paul Buchanan*, on RNZ yesterday, said:

      http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20130802-0722-security_analyst_-_blaming_terrorism_for_bill_is_a_last_resort-048.mp3

      “Since September 11 “terrorism” has become the buzz word politicians use when they want to expand the scope of the security apparatus.”

      He basically said Key’s reference to Yemen and Al Qaeda training particularly was scaremongering.

      Buchanan said the suspected AQ operatives in Yemen, identified as terror threats, are more at risk from drone attacks, than anyone in NZ is at risk from such operatives.

      Interestingly, PB also said:

      95% of what intelligence agencies do is still old fashioned state espionage.

      (i.e. people on the ground with contacts in the suspect organisations etc.), and not cyber-surveillance. Cyber terrorism is only about 5% of intelligence agencies work. Yet the Yemen threat has allegedly been identified through communications intercepts.
17. travellerev 17

    4 August 2013 at 2:58 am

    Today 24 US embassies closed because of unspecified threat!. BOOM!!! But no conspiracies here. Nope uh uh, we’s free in the Western world and our governments do not conspire! No Sir!
18. Populuxe1 18

    4 August 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Is this one of those impossible articles that shouldn’t exist because the MSM is the puppet of the power elites? How inconvenient.
19. UglyTruth 19

    4 August 2013 at 6:52 pm

    “I Call For Immediate Termination Of Dir Of National Intelligence James Clapper And AG Eric Holder!”

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