Kurariki on home detention

75 comments on “Kurariki on home detention ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Brett Dale 1

   6 May 2008 at 12:19 pm

   So you wouldn’t mind living next door to that murderer then?

   I notice you left that part out of your post? The fact that his crime was murder.
2. Matthew Pilott 2

   6 May 2008 at 12:23 pm

   Brett – I wouldn’t. Would you? NIMBYists can piss off and acquire a sense of personal/societal responsibility!
3. big bruv 3

   6 May 2008 at 12:26 pm

   Lets see the reaction of all the left wing hand wringers when this piece of scum commits his next crime.

   I can only assume they will not care when he “knocks off” the next rich prick.
4. higherstandard 4

   6 May 2008 at 12:31 pm

   “the important things are that he does not re-offend and can start to make a positive contribution to society.”

   Absolutely agree SP time will tell if he dose reoffend I think he should be dealt with harshly however.

   Brett Yes I would mind him living next to me he does have to live somewhere though, Matt if Kurariki had a sense of personal/societal responsibility in the first place this post wouldn’t exist.
5. Matthew Pilott 5

   6 May 2008 at 12:38 pm

   big bruv, Michael Choy was not, as I gather, rich, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with how rich the victim is. What a sickening tangent, your mind is twisted!

   That aside, can I ask for your suggestion? He committed a crime at age 12 and has spent five years incarcerated. What would you like to do? Give him another 5? 10? 40? You draw the line, buddy, and at $80,000 a year. Then get back to me next time you whinge about use of tax payers’ money and I’ll laugh in your face.

   HS – at age 12 he clearly didn’t – I’m inclined to give someone a second chance. I might have a different perspective with a true recidivist.
6. AndrewE 6

   6 May 2008 at 12:39 pm

   He’s a kid who made a tragic mistake. Hopefully he can reintegrate and make a positive contribution to society. I think the odds are stacked against him however.

   And I wouldn’t want him living next door to me either. Having said that I wouldn’t want anyone who’s committed a violent crime living next door to me.
7. Lyn 7

   6 May 2008 at 12:41 pm

   Kuariki can’t be kept locked up for the rest of his natural life – this is not a pragmatic solution, particularly from a tax-payer’s perspective. He was a child when this crime occurred – which means his ability to understand consequences was far more limited than an adult’s, and he was the youngest of a big group of offenders. Rehabilitation and integration represent the best hope for supporting him to become a functioning adult who will not require the expense of further imprisonment from the state.

   And he’s done both the crime and the time – I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here, albeit with serious sympathy for the loss suffered by his victim’s family.
8. Billy 8

   6 May 2008 at 12:44 pm

   He’s nearly at the end of his sentence, at which point he must be released. So it makes sense to give him limited release now so that you can monitor him and pull him back if he f*cks up. In six months time he’ll be a civilian and you won’t be able to punish him unless he’s committed a crime.
9. pixie66 9

   6 May 2008 at 12:55 pm

   I’ll think you’ll find that SST and Michael Choy’s mother supported parole at this stage. As I read the media reports, they appreciated that he is going to be released in September anyway and that it was better that there be some period of controlled release.

   Mrs Croskery apparently asked for electronic monitoring to be part of his release conditions, so that he can be properly supervised and supported during this parole period. Her residual concerns were to do with whether he has been properly rehabilitated, particularly in light of Corrections reports just 12 months ago, which assessed him as a high risk of violent re-offending.

   You can’t blame her for being worried – having gone through such a tragedy herself, she no doubt feels a sense of moral responsibility to prevent it happening to anyone else.
10. Draco TB 10

    6 May 2008 at 12:57 pm

    He needs a second chance and a controlled re-entry into society is better than dumping him on the streets. Hopefully he has learned a bit of social responsibility while in side but I don’t hold out much hope as some of the psychiatrists who evaluated him put him at a high risk of re-offending.

    I would have no issues with him living next to me.
11. jh 11

    6 May 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I think prison should be half punishment and half rehabilitation. I think (some) prisoners shouldn’t have the same human rights as others so they can be controlled as in Japanese prisons- no prisoner on prisoner violence and no chewing the fat either, shorter time and out. I especially would like to see them march, while vigorously swinging their arms “left right left right left right left right left right left right left right left right!!!!.
12. big bruv 12

    6 May 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Matthew.

    More than happy to provide a solution, lock the little bastard up for the rest of his life.
    The 80k thing is of course an issue and that is why we should be looking at introducing the policies of Sheriff Joe Arpaio, there is no earthly reason why it should cost 80k to keep a crim locked up.

    You will never hear me moan about the cost of locking up scum like Kurariki, personally I would build as many prisons as we need and in the mean time I could and would double the prison capacity overnight.

    We should be saving money by slashing benefits and cutting Labour party govt waste not by cutting back on Police and Corrections officers.
13. jh 13

    6 May 2008 at 1:00 pm

    You’ll find a promo here for a documentary re life in a Japanese prison
    http://www.documen.tv/asset/Japan_form_inside_film.html
14. Steve Pierson 14

    6 May 2008 at 1:02 pm

    the question is not ‘should we let him out?’. He’s coming out anyway. the question is how we manage that process – chuck him out straight from jail and more or less guarantee further offending or a managed process that will reduce the chances of that happening.

    I didn’t mention the crime because everyone knows who he is.
15. jh 15

    6 May 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Cost of documentary
    20.00 EUR

    =

    39.4920 NZD + postage
16. lyndon 16

    6 May 2008 at 1:20 pm

    I think it’s worth pointing out that, in being sent home now, Kurariki is getting the opposite of special treatment. Anybody else would have been paroled earlier, for the same reasons the board are citing now. One can only guess the board is bad-publicity averse and he’s ended up being treated more harshly, effectively because he was so young at the time.

    I’ll think you’ll find that SST and Michael Choy’s mother supported parole at this stage…

    Odd, then, that the SST wants parole abolished.
17. BeShakey 17

    6 May 2008 at 1:26 pm

    “…looking at introducing the policies of Sheriff Joe Arpaio”.

    You mean the guy who has been shown to lie about his policies and their success. The one who can’t truthfully point to any evidence to suggest that his policies actually work. I’m always amazed by the way some people want to import American police/correctional policies so that little old ladies can work the streets at night safely, just like they do in LA.
18. Brett Dale 18

    6 May 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Matthew Pilott:

    Im all for giving a 12 year old a second chance, if they say, shoplifted a dvd from the warehouse, or spray painted someone’s property.

    Im not for giving anyone a second change who swings a baseball bat at someone’s skull and kills them, then for that person to joke about for the next five years, into their late teens, committing assaults along the way while incarcerated.

    Only for them to find God when their next parole hearing is up.

    He is a piece of human waste, who has no remorse for what he did and doesn’t deserve to be in society.
19. big bruv 19

    6 May 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Yep..the guy who keeps being elected by his his own people, I guess the people of Maricopa county seem to think that his policies are working just fine.

    From what I can see it is only the hard left groups that do not like the guy.
20. Matthew Pilott 20

    6 May 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Well bruv, if nothing else I appreciate your candour. I wonder what the prison population would look like if we slashed beenfits (thus increasing crime) and enforcing ‘life means life’ sentences – even for children. Eventually, there would be no ‘waste’ to eliminate, and the massive cuts in social spending would lead to a spiralling crime problem that there was no money to rectify, let alone spend on prisons. I think there would be a complete break down in civilised society not long after that.

    Good luck with that though.
21. Sam Dixon 21

    6 May 2008 at 1:34 pm

    bb – just like the Govt keeps getting elected by its own people? I guess the people of New Zealand seem to think that its policies are working just fine.

    From what I can see it is only the hard right individuals that do not like the Govt.
22. Brett Dale 22

    6 May 2008 at 1:37 pm

    I spent some time living in Arizona in the mid 90’s, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a legend, and he had the support of nearly everybody, except those on the far left.

    It was great going out at nice to bars and restaurants in Tempe, knowing that the streets were safe.
23. Phil 23

    6 May 2008 at 1:38 pm

    BeS, there is plenty of evidence pointing to longer sentences reducing crime. It’s not a moral issue, it’s simple math.

    Anyway, this kid’s done his time (or, most of it…) and now needs to be weaned off prison life in such a way as to reduce the risk of re-offence.

    …..

    “No doubt, there will be hollow cries of outrage from… ”

    I think this count as the blog-equivalet of premature ejaculation – the least you could do is wait for the Nat’s to comment before putting words in their mouth
24. big bruv 24

    6 May 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Sam/Wat

    Not seen the polls lately?, I am also damn sure that Joe has never stolen $880,000 of his constituents money to steal an election.
25. big bruv 25

    6 May 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Matthew

    I could not care what the prison population looks like, we can easily double or triple the prison capacity overnight.
26. Tamaki Resident 26

    6 May 2008 at 1:41 pm

    get your facts right Brett – he was convicted of manslaughter (not murder), along with 5 others. From memory, he was the look-out – he didn’t swing the baseball bat. The guy deserves another chance, let’s support him so he will become a good influence on others rather than consigning him to the waste heap.
27. Tim 27

    6 May 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Sorry, even if you’re twelve you know it’s wrong to murder someone. If a member of my family were beaten to death by a twelve year old I wouldn’t make excuses for the offender. I just feel for the victim’s family. Wasn’t Kurariki incredibly proud of his status as NZ’s youngest murderer?

    I think he will offend violently again. Having said that though, failing to attempt to rehabilitate people and just locking them up does nothing to make society a safer place. I agree if he’s going to come out at some time the authorities should at least try to reintegrate him into society first.
28. Brett Dale 28

    6 May 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Tamaki Resident

    Lets support Him??????

    Your having a laugh???????

    I say, lets support the victims of crime.

    This punk has shown no remorse, he has joked about it while incarcerated for the last five years, he has assaulted people while in incarcerated, he deserves no help or no sympathy.
29. zANavAShi 29

    6 May 2008 at 2:13 pm

    In support of Tamaki Resident’s attempt to bring some perspective here, this post from Bomber at Tumeke:

    If you asked most NZers how many times Bailey Junior Kurariki hit Michael Choy, the pizza delivery man who so tragically died, they would tell you, “Ohh, I’d so 50 bro’, others would say “ummmm, prolly 150′, those who listen to ZB would say, ‘ohhhh, 150 plus infinity’ the reality of course is that Bailey didn’t hit Michael at all, it was his dumb mate, Bailey was the ‘look out’ these dumb young stupid kids thought if they hit the pizza man in the head, he’d be knocked out and they could get his pizzas and money, so they hit Michael ONCE in the head, they took his money and pizza off him and then led Michael back to his pizza deliver car (where he was promptly robbed again by some girls who watched the whole thing on the other side of the road – nice neighborhood), Choy then crawled out of his car, banged on the door of an old couple (who didn’t answer the door) and he died. This was tragic, but it was not the murder of the century made by criminal masterminds ….

    Read more: http://tumeke.blogspot.com/2008/05/our-youngest-killer-should-have-told.html
30. Ben R 30

    6 May 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Given the apparent lack of remorse hopefully he doesn’t prove to be a type of psychopath like those featured Nigel Latta’s programme ‘Beyond the Darklands’. It would be interesting to know what Latta makes of Kurariki.
31. Bearhunter 31

    6 May 2008 at 2:18 pm

    BeShakey: “little old ladies can work the streets at night safely, just like they do in LA.”

    Heh. Many a good tune played on an old fiddle…or did you mean “walk” the streets? Sorry if I sound pedantic, it just struck me as a lovely image.
32. Matthew Pilott 32

    6 May 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Bruv, you may not care about pouring untold billiobs into prisons (and trying to take the money from the very social services that keep crime down), but the rest of us would rather see our money spent on something useful rather than pouring money into prisons merely to assuage the knee-jerk lynch mobs comprised of sheep, er, individuals, such as yourself and Brett Dale (who is doing wonders at demonstrating the typical ignorance of the “lock ’em and leave ’em” crowd).
33. killinginthenameof 33

    6 May 2008 at 2:25 pm

    big bruv
    May 6, 2008 at 1:31 pm
    Yep..the guy who keeps being elected by his his own people, I guess the people of Maricopa county seem to think that his policies are working just fine.

    From what I can see it is only the hard left groups that do not like the guy.
    ———————

    Tard.

    Brett Dale
    May 6, 2008 at 1:37 pm
    I spent some time living in Arizona in the mid 90’s, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a legend, and he had the support of nearly everybody, except those on the far left.

    It was great going out at nice to bars and restaurants in Tempe, knowing that the streets were safe.

    ———————

    Even bigger tard.

    Really bloody simple, fear of crime is related to media coverage of crime, actual levels of crime dont not come into it what so ever. People feel safer because they think hes doing sometime about crime, thats good enough for them, pity though that crime is going up becuase of his policies. Its alright though I guess, because people think its ok because they see that hes doing something (they dont care if its helping or not). Basically its an acknoledgement that crime isnt that bigger deal (even at americas rates!), so the media isnt scare mongering then everything will be fine?
34. Brett Dale 34

    6 May 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Matthew Pilott:

    I just think that since Bailey has joked about his crime for the past five years and have been violent all his time in prison, and has never shown remorse, he shouldnt of been let out.

    Why do you have a problem with that?
35. big bruv 35

    6 May 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Matthew

    You do not speak for “the rest of us” so please do not pretend that you do, why is it that you bloody socialists insist on saying things like that?
    You also distort my message, I did not say anything about pouring “untold billiobs (sic)” into prisons, what I said is that I would not be against building as many as we need and indeed we could double our capacity tomorrow without building one extra prison, we should also cut out each and every perk and privilege, we could save a fortune that way and that would go toward hiring the extra staff needed.
36. Brett Dale 36

    6 May 2008 at 2:34 pm

    killinginthenameof:

    Since I have actually lived in Tempe and not just read something in a book, I think I have the right to comment.

    The area I was in was safe, there was no trouble makers, thanks to the tough approach, it had nothing to do with the media.

    Wouldn’t it be great in a NewZealand city to go out at night to a nice restaurant/bar and not have the scum walking about disturbing the peace.
37. big bruv 37

    6 May 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Killing

    And of course you have indisputable proof that Joe’s policies are not working?
38. big bruv 38

    6 May 2008 at 2:36 pm

    They could start by arresting and imprisoning each and every rugby league fan, that would bring the crime rate right down.
39. Ben R 39

    6 May 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Matthew,

    Do you think that incarceration is ineffective in reducing crime? I agree that funding of early childhood services are particularly important. I also think there needs to be more awareness of the risks of drinking alcohol during pregnancy & during breast feeding. But in terms of dealing with adult offenders, incarceration does have a significant impact on crime rates:

    “Crime fell sharply and unexpectedly in the 1990s. Four factors appear to explain the drop in crime: increased incarceration, more police, the decline of crack and legalized abortion. Other factors often cited as important factors driving the decline do not appear to have played an important role: the strong economy, changing demographics, innovative policing strategies, gun laws and increased use of capital punishment.” http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf
40. Brett Dale 40

    6 May 2008 at 2:37 pm

    It easy to cut the cost of prisons, take away the little extras, like televisions/dvds/playstations/tennis courts/coke machines, and have a REAL prison.

    Just a cell, a bed, a toliet and three meals a day.

    You can stick more than one prisoner to a cell.

    But Im guessing Labour thinks child rapists and murderers deserve more?
41. higherstandard 41

    6 May 2008 at 2:38 pm

    BB

    Can we leave the Mad Butcher out on home detention ?
42. Brett Dale 42

    6 May 2008 at 2:39 pm

    big bruv:

    hahaha always with the league jokes, huh!

    Go the Warriors!
43. big bruv 43

    6 May 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Ben R

    Don’t confuse Matthew with facts, he has already made up his mind.
44. big bruv 44

    6 May 2008 at 2:41 pm

    higher

    ONLY HIM!
45. Matthew Pilott 45

    6 May 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Brett Dale,

    Because Kurariki has served his sentence, hasn’t committed any offences worthy of further prosecution while in prison, and since he is going to be released, I support doing it in an appropriate and supportive fashion.

    As you probably know, repentance isn’t a condition of release – perhaps you’d wish it to be so but it’s something impossible to gauge accurately – so I don’t see how it is relevant, apart from when judging parole releases. Given this is taken into account, I don’t see the problem – and I’m doubtful you have a better idea of his state of mind and activities than the parole board.

    You also seem to have very little knowledge of the actual incident, which compounds my doubts as to your ability to fairly judge the current situation, and his behaviour during the intervening five years.

    It’s a backward lynch mob mentality that I find abhorrent, as you asked.

    I also ask what your ‘no help or sympathy’ attitude would achieve. Do you think all rehabilitation is futile? because it follows that we should execute all violent criminals, or incarcerate them permanently – is that what you’re advocating here (along with bruv, I’m sorry to say)?
46. Brett Dale 46

    6 May 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Matthew Pilott:

    This is a person who couldn’t care less about his crime, judging by his behavior over the past five years there is no remorse.

    As for parole boards, well look over the years all the mistakes they have made.

    When Bailey commits his next crime, those on the left will scream “Prison doesn’t work” has it ever occurred to you, that Bailey is a bad person, and its not society’s fault.

    But then again, that would take away, personal responsibility.

    By the way, I give sympathy and support to the victims of crime, not the other way around.
47. Matthew Pilott 47

    6 May 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Ben R – we do incarcerate criminals; I am not against incarceration. I am against knee-jerk lynch mob idiots (not you…) demanding longer sentences without a thought as to the remifications, or whether they would be an effective deterrent. I’ve read freakonomics – go abortions huh?

    bruv, I think it was fair enough for me to assume the majority of new Zealanders would not want to pour billions (got the spelling right this time) into prisons. Do you disagree with that point, whether that was what you were actually saying or not? This would clearly be the end result of your idiotic idea of cutting welfare to fund prisons – what you want to do is fund prisons by doing something that will increase the crime rate.

    This would be a vicious circle until something breaks – we would run out of welfare to cut. You also advocated locking up people charged with manslaughter for life. Presumably other equivalent crimes, and those more serious, would have the same sentence. This would further compound the problem of trying to fund prisons.

    I’m happy to change my mind if something is presented to me that shows what I believe is wrong. A monkey with a typewriter might have a better chance than you though bruv, but try and prove me wrong there too!
48. killinginthenameof 48

    6 May 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Brett Dale
    May 6, 2008 at 2:34 pm
    killinginthenameof:

    Since I have actually lived in Tempe and not just read something in a book, I think I have the right to comment.

    The area I was in was safe, there was no trouble makers, thanks to the tough approach, it had nothing to do with the media.

    Wouldn’t it be great in a NewZealand city to go out at night to a nice restaurant/bar and not have the scum walking about disturbing the peace.

    I have no problems going out at night in wellington (sadly not the same in chch though)

    Yes the eveidence out there shows that his policys dont work, ill try find something later on when i have some spare time.

    Go watch his documentry when asked about the statistics ‘I dont really believe in statistics’ or something along those lines, surely if his policies worked he woudl be shouting from the roof tops?

    ‘fear of crime down, but actual level of crime up’ doesnt have quite the same ring to it i guess, kinda like yelling ‘im a liar and a con artist’ from the roof…
49. Brett Dale 49

    6 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Matthew:

    You know my stance on violent crime, what is yours?

    What sort of sentence would you think is right, for child rapists/murderers/rapists, you know the violent of the most violent.

    What do you think should also be avaiable in prison for these guys?
50. Matthew Pilott 50

    6 May 2008 at 2:55 pm

    So I ask again Brett – what would you do? Execute him or lock him up for life? Would that be a mandatory minimum sentence for all those convicted of manslaughter or worse?

    The parole board deals with thousands of cases every year – while I sympathise with those affected when they get it wrong, the reoffending rates of parolees are far lower then those who aren’t paroled, so I support parole.
51. Santi 51

    6 May 2008 at 2:58 pm

    “So I ask again Brett – what would you do? Execute him or lock him up for life?” you asked.

    I say, execute the bastard.
52. big bruv 52

    6 May 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Matthew

    When ever I am abused by a pinko I know I am on the right track.

    Your mindset (and that of all pinko’s) just cannot concede that there might be another way and another way is desperately needed, the left wing way of doing things sure as hell is not working.

    Sooner or later you will have to agree that paying people to do nothing just ensures that we produce generation after generation of criminals (I know that deep down you do not give a toss as these fools vote Labour to a man and that is why you defend them) but the cost to society cannot be allowed to continue.

    You and Labour have had your time and you have failed miserably,get out of the way and let somebody else fix the problem that you created.
53. Brett Dale 53

    6 May 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Considering for the last five years he has joked and showed off about his crime, and has also committed violent acts, I wouldnt have paroled him.

    The prison Pastor said he has found God, so I would say, okay if he is really a changed man, give him another couples of years in prison and see what his behavior is like, not just six months.

    Then release him to home detention for one year, then let him out with very strict parole conditions, which if he breaks even once hes back in prison.

    Send him to work, in which a percentage of money will go to his victims family and this will happen for the rest of his life.

    What would you do?
54. Billy 54

    6 May 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Brett, I’m all for nice long sentences, but he already got his (and served most of it). You can’t increase it now.
55. Brett Dale 55

    6 May 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Five years is long to you?
56. big bruv 56

    6 May 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Off topic

    I see dear leader has been caught telling lies again
    http://nominister.blogspot.com/2008/05/has-helen-been-lying-again.html

    [the stories going around Wellington tend to back Clark’s comments. SP]
57. Draco TB 57

    6 May 2008 at 3:44 pm

    get out of the way and let somebody else fix the problem that you created.

    It wasn’t the present government that caused the problem (which problem?) but previous RWNJ (such as Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Ruth Richardson etc) in positions of power that they really couldn’t handle. The present government is slowly fixing the problems that these idiots created.

    Let National in and the problems will come back and get worse.
58. Matthew Pilott 58

    6 May 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Brett – I’m not an expert, just have fairly strong views. There are aspects to our prision system I don’t like. I understand that fewer than 20% of prisoners are working in prison – I’d have thought that being in gainful employment would be a start.

    A prison shouldn’t be a holiday camp, but then as it is for rehabilitation, not retribution, it should not be a gulag either. To ask ‘what should be available in prison’ – are you asking ‘how bad should we make prisons to encourage criminals to avoid them?’ Short answer – I doubt it makes a difference when we’re talking of how ‘comfortable’ people should be in prisons.

    If you’re referring to non-material things in prison – there should be a lot – classes, opportunities for employment and so on.

    I am against mandatory minimum sentences, or the arbitrary pegging of a sentence for X crime at Y years imprisonment – leave it to the judiciary. In saying that, I conceed crimes often seem to receive short sentences, but this is an objective assessment on my behalf, and not one I’d inflict upon others without some serious research into the case.

    bruv – when someone fails to respond to a single point I make, I know they’re beat, no matter what bluster they come up with in the meantime. I didn’t abuse you y’know, I claimed that your idea was idiotic – you’re free to have another shot at explaining it as you were previously, and chose not to.

    Prove to me that abolition of the welfare state will solve our crime problem, and I’ll be happy to listen.

    As for the monkey comment – it’s the honest truth. Your arguing style consists of vauge, inflamatory statements, an abject lack of evidence or supporting facts (referenced or no) and then bluster when called up on it, with a fair bit of diversion and topic-changing to boot. Given this approach would have a zero chance of making me change my mind, a monkey with a typewriter would have a better chance, as what said monkey writes is (as the theory goes) random, and the chance would be greater than zero.

    I imagine the same applies to your good self and my comments. Please forgive my honesty in making it so blunt though, if you’re less than impressed by the analogy.
59. Billy 59

    6 May 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Brett, my point is you can’t increase the sentence after sentencing. If there was a problem with the sentence (and I do not have enough information to assess whether there was) you can’t fix it at the end. You have to appeal the sentence.
60. Tamaki Resident 60

    6 May 2008 at 4:10 pm

    zANavAShi – thanks for the supporting info a couple of hours ago. I’ve recently heard the spokeman for the Prison Fellowship say similar things.

    Brett seems to want spartan prison conditions and longer sentences. What sort of released prisoners will that produce? I can’t imagine them being better than what we get now.

    By “support”, I mean lets support the organisations that are working with soon-to-be-released and recently-released prisoners to help them help the guys that genuinely want to do better next time round. It’s hard work, but will produce some better people than we would get by locking a 12 yr old up for 20 years.
61. big bruv 61

    6 May 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Matthew

    So when abuse does not work you move on to attacking the messenger?

    Shame.
62. r0b 62

    6 May 2008 at 4:33 pm

    BB, Your childish habit of calling Helen Clark “dear leader” is an example of attacking the messenger.

    Shame.
63. big bruv 63

    6 May 2008 at 4:37 pm

    rob

    “Cancerous” “Corrosive” “Loathsome people”

    Are these all examples of childish habits?, dear leader started the personal attacks yet she is the first to bleat when the guns are turned on her, have you forgotten the statement (and another of her lies) “I don’t muck rake”
64. Felix 64

    6 May 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Billy
    The clear and obvious point you make is totally lost on the likes of Brett, who would like to have judicial decisions revoked by a Herald Digipoll (but only for the really exciting, high profile cases).
65. Matthew Pilott 65

    6 May 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Bruv, as just mentioned, it wasn’t abuse; I see you’ve given up even reading what I write.

    It also wasn’t ‘attacking the messenger’ in my subsequent post – it was an honest appraisal of the effectiveness of your arguments, not an attack in the slightest. To prove this, you promplty changed teh topic with your very next post – I couldn’t have scripted that better! Cheers *ironic salute*

    The best way to refute these claims would be to make an intelligent and well thought-through argument to counter the claims I have made regarding prisons, welfare, the uselessness of knee-jerk demands for ‘tougher sentencing’, rehabilitation prospects and the viability of the parole system. You have chosen to do none of the above, thus validating my description of your modus operandi. Ranting about Pinko’s (sic) does not constitute a well thought-out argument, for the record.
66. randal 66

    6 May 2008 at 5:29 pm

    the politicisation of the justice department shows how inadequate the whole system has become. Geoffrey Palmer made a freudian slip recently when he referred to it as the ‘justice industry’ and until there is a proper understanding of the psychological determinants of crime and the delvierance of the system to aparatchicks then it will continue to be the playground of uneducated wannabees and leeches dependent on the system for their remuneration and their jollies
67. killinginthenameof 67

    6 May 2008 at 5:31 pm

    “Corrections researchers at the Arizona State University: Arpaio spent over
    $10,000 to have Arizona State University study recidivism in his jail
    system. The 1998 ASU study tracked 4,800 released Maricopa County inmates
    and showed no evidence that harsh treatment reduced recidivism. Arpaio
    discounted this study as false and continues to claim that his jail program
    has reduced crime in the valley.

    The Editor of the Phoenix New Times, a newspaper which has been maintaining
    a close surveillance over Joe Arpaio since he came to office, and has
    documented his excesses, and abuse of authority.

    Has the crime rate reduced as a result of all this activity? Not at all. As
    of December 2006, Phoenix is strapped with a crime rate that, according to
    FBI statistics, now tops that of New York, Los Angeles or Baltimore.
    ”

    I’ll try track down the study, unless of course your just going to call it ivory tower pinko communist propaganda then i might as well not bother, what say you?
68. Bearhunter 68

    6 May 2008 at 6:39 pm

    So, if working towards rehabilitation is the goal and pre- and post-release support is necessary (neither of which I would argue with, by the way), why are organisations like PARS finding it so hard to get funding from the government?
69. pixie66 69

    6 May 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Lyndon said: “Odd, then, that the SST wants parole abolished.”

    Not odd. I was referring to their response to this particular case, not their overall manifesto. At present, there is a parole system, so their submissions would have proceeded on that basis even if they don’t agree with the system itself (or, for that matter, the original sentence imposed).
70. Dean 70

    6 May 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Rob:

    “BB, Your childish habit of calling Helen Clark “dear leader’ is an example of attacking the messenger.”

    Sorry, but if she’s going to dish it out then she and you (as a supporter) had better be prepared to take it.

    “Shame.”

    On you. For being hypocritical.
71. weizguy 71

    6 May 2008 at 10:06 pm

    Brett Dale

    dvds: Don’t have them
    playstations: no longer in prisons
    tennis courts: Are you joking?
    coke machines: How are prisoners supposed to use these coke machines – they aren’t allowed to have cash?

    As for Sheriff Arpaio:
    In his second term of office alone, he bought a howitzer with $15,000 tires, a $70,000 armored car, spent $3 million to move to a penthouse office with big-screen TVs and other luxuries, and spent more than a million dollars on take-home vehicles for his favorite staffers. By 2001, some $16 million had already been paid to plaintiffs in successful lawsuits against the Sheriffs Department in relation to inmate deaths.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0707/S00325.htm

    There’s certainly no evidence that any of this guy’s policies have any effect on reducing reoffending… and plenty that they have none.

    http://www.infonews.co.nz/news.cfm?l=1&t=150&id=16570
72. r0b 72

    7 May 2008 at 9:52 am

    Sorry, but if she’s going to dish it out then she and you (as a supporter) had better be prepared to take it.

    Fine, fersure, but don’t persistently play that game and then also bleat about “attacking the messenger”, because that’s just hypocrisy.
73. Matthew Pilott 73

    7 May 2008 at 10:02 am

    r0b – you’re sure about that? Because Clark and Cullen have made silly/nasty comments you’re accepting it’s fine to have them directed at you because you’re a supporter?

    Say a player in your favourite football team makes a bad tackle and breaks another player’s ankle. That player was on my favourite team – so it’s ok for me to have a crack at your ankle? I think not.
74. r0b 74

    7 May 2008 at 11:16 am

    Matthew – Good call. I personally don’t give a round rats arse what trolls call me on a blog. But you are quite right that in general it is not okay to direct abuse at supporters (or indeed in an ideal world, and anyone).
75. Dean 75

    7 May 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Matthew/Rob:

    “Canceroud and corrosive” (easily the worst)
    “Last cab of the rank” (so much for racial tolerance. I guess it’s because Turia ‘betrayed’ her)
    “Chinless scarf wearers” (not Clark’s own words, but please direct me to a statement where she decried it. In fact all she did was demote the minister in question. And let’s face it, that’s not exactly a stunning suprise from a government which has Lianne Dalziel in charge of the portfolio she has, is it?)
    “I think you’re defying human nature” (re the anto smacking bill. Surely, one of the biggest flip flops ever)
    “By definition, I cannot leak” (biggest joke in the last 9 years)

    Really guys. If you want to play semantics or your party is better than somebody else’s game, you’re going to have to suck it up. Because Clark has come out with some absolute clangers you guys just try and sweep under the carpet in the name of the greater common good.

    “He is only guilty of trying to help people” re Taito Phillip Field. If you expect people to take the leadership of the Labour party at all seriously after that particular little piece of awesomeness then you’re just stupid, considering when Clark came into power she promised a new era of political accountability.

    It’s time for the Labour party to be chucked out. They’ve clearly lost sight of what it is they’re supposed to be representing, and if you argue otherwise you’re just another sychophant who wants to pretend the sky will fall if National ever holds the treasury benches.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS