Labour pays respect to Margaret Thatcher

Written By: - Date published: 12:48 pm, April 9th, 2013 - 182 comments
Categories: labour - Tags: ,

David
SHEARER
Labour Leader

09 April 2013 MEDIA STATEMENT

Labour pays respect to Margaret Thatcher

Labour is today paying its respects to the family, friends and colleagues of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher who passed away overnight.

“Baroness Thatcher was a passionate and formidable politician who loved her country. While I didn’t agree with many of her policies, she was a strong and decisive leader with unwavering principles. She was Britain’s first and only female Prime Minister.

“We join with political leaders around the world in remembering Margaret Thatcher’s service to the people of Britain and her significant impact on the global political environment,” said David Shearer.

182 comments on “Labour pays respect to Margaret Thatcher ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. One Anonymous Knucklehead 1
    9 April 2013 at 1:08 pm

    So, which policies of hers do you agree with, David?

    • Pascal's bookie 1.1
      9 April 2013 at 1:10 pm

      We have to do something about AGW. There you go.

    • Mary 1.2
      9 April 2013 at 2:14 pm

      “While I didn’t agree with many of her policies…”

      No David, you do agree with many of her policies. Probably most of them.

    • Murray Olsen 1.3
      10 April 2013 at 12:39 am

      And what was her “service to the people of Britain”? How did she show her love for the country?
      Shearer could and should have done better than this. As opposition leader, he probably had to say something, but there should not have been an iota of praise in it. He could have remained strictly neutral, something Labour PMs pretend to do as second nature when it comes to industrial disputes at home.

  2. quartz 2
    9 April 2013 at 1:11 pm

    That sounds like it was written by Tony Blair.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1
      9 April 2013 at 1:40 pm

      Tony Blair who was described on National Radio this morning as a “centre left leader”. I almost barfed on my steering wheel.

      • Tim 2.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 3:00 pm

        Yep, well there’s part of the problem CV. The pendulum has swung so far to the right that many in Labour would protest their left-wing credentials (with a peshun). They do so usually though from positions of comfort with the convenient excuse that they’ve grown older and wiser, and more pragmatic no matter how much havoc they wreak in the process.
        Usually what they mean is that ‘they’ve grown up’ (ripened as opposed to matured), developed a sense of entitlement, ‘paid their dues’, and therefore know better than everyone else. It’s wood for trees stuff. You see it everywhere – including (dare I say it, at times from supposed left wing sages such as the great BE – NZ’s equivalent of Jeremy Paxman. Perhaps I should say Jeremy is Britain’s equivalent of BE – the latter being older, and supposedly wiser)
        One needs look no further than the Monday bullshit session with Kathryn Ryan “from the right….., and from the right”. The only explanation I can surmise for Kathryn is that she led a good clean, but somewhat sheltered life). Or RNZ afternoons with everyman’s best, better, bestest friend Jum Mora, usually stacked (a la Fucks Newz) with 2 right apologists and 1 ‘somewhat left’.
        (The right of course seek to legitimise all that tripe by accusing RNZ of having a left bias). Thankfully RNZ still has a few within willing to call foul on that notion but I’ve no doubt there are attempts to displace them.
        Oh, and just btw….. how the hell did KR manage to negotiate such a wonderful leave entitlement?
        I’m hoping in the next contract review, it’ll be even better. Her locums are usually far better, just as competent and with at least equal expertise! As for Jum tho’ …. lost cause. I recall a few years ago after making an enquiry, a promise of a new and exciting programme with greater respect for audience [paraphrase].
        What eventuated was the same old hacks – same shit, different stink. Christ how I wish many of them would actually undertake the mission to Mars!.
        I’ve diggressed I know, but we should probably save ourselves the heartache. Turn off Natrad between 9am and 5pm Monday to Friday, except when Kethy is off scuba diving or being a regular gal!

    • McFlock 2.2
      9 April 2013 at 1:50 pm

      Tony Blair called her a “great leader” and said that there were times he disagreed with her (good of him, being a labour pm and seeing as she declared war of the workers, and all).

      I don’t think Shearer’s up at the same level of adulation as Blair. But I do think that it would be a bad move for a political leader to celebrate her passing. Looks shitty. Basically the run of the mill statement said some typical things about her and identified probably the only policy area in regards to which she was not completely on the side of evil.

  3. Arfamo 3
    9 April 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Well, what could he say? Pitched about right I reckon. Not going to be memorable but who would want it to be?

    • Pascal's bookie 3.1
      9 April 2013 at 1:17 pm

      Concur.

    • Lightly 3.2
      9 April 2013 at 1:18 pm

      he could say nothing.

      • Arfamo 3.2.1
        9 April 2013 at 1:24 pm

        I thought about that, and decided it was better to say something like he’s said than say nothing.

        • Lightly 3.2.1.1
          9 April 2013 at 1:32 pm

          Why?

          Praising her in anyway is a kick in the teeth to everyone who’s suffered from neoliberalism.

          Praising someone for being strong and decisive (and ignoring the substance of the decisions she made with that strength) is just fascistic

          • Arfamo 3.2.1.1.1
            9 April 2013 at 1:35 pm

            If you read it properly, he doesn’t praise her for anything. He simply summarises his impression of her. It’s just a neutral acknowledgement of the passing of an important (and in my case detested) political figure in history. It does Shearer no harm and may do him some good to formally acknowledge her departure from this mortal coil without kissing her shroud.

            • Lightly 3.2.1.1.1.1
              9 April 2013 at 2:46 pm

              “Baroness Thatcher was a passionate and formidable politician who loved her country”

              “she was a strong and decisive leader with unwavering principles”

              any normal person reading that will see it as praise. And it does him harm with his base and Labour’s activist pool, what’s left of it.

              ‘her departure from this mortal coil’ – sigh. The mortal coil is not a place that you leave, it’s your body. When you ‘shuffle off this mortal coil’, it’s your soul coming out of your body like a butterfly shuffles off its chrysalis.

              • The Pink Postman …
                9 April 2013 at 3:21 pm

                Bloody shame she did not pop her cogs before she did so much damage to working class Brits..Just remember who “dearest ” friend was;. Pinochet !. Who was responsible for the deaths of thousands.

              • Arfamo …
                9 April 2013 at 4:36 pm

                sigh. The mortal coil is not a place that you leave, it’s your body. When you ‘shuffle off this mortal coil’, it’s your soul coming out of your body like a butterfly shuffles off its chrysalis.

                Oh. Is it? According to wiki, and a few other sources I’ve googled to check whether I should gratefully acknowledge your correction: Mortal coil is a poetic term that means the troubles of daily life and the strife and suffering of the world. It is used in the sense of a burden to be carried or abandoned, most famously in the phrase “shuffle[d] off this mortal coil” from the “To be, or not to be” monologue in Shakespeare’s Hamlet. Please give the teacher her seat back.

              • Colonial Weka …
                9 April 2013 at 7:01 pm

                “who loved her country”

                It’s arguable that she didn’t.

                • Elizabeth Bourchier …
                  10 April 2013 at 10:35 am

                  She perhaps “loved” it from the Wash to the Scilly Isles.

                  She and her supporters were very definitely Home Counties stereotypes and predominately male.

                  The North of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland were like an unkempt back yard to her: out of sight and our of mind.

          • Rodel 3.2.1.1.2
            9 April 2013 at 8:50 pm

            Can think of a few other strong and decisive leaders….Idi…Mussolini….Sadam…… Mugabe….Bush… Blair? (No not George’s puppy Blair) I could go on. Strong and decisive doesn’t inspire me. It’s a way of saying that person was an asshole but I’m expected to say something without actually saying he/she was an asshole..Shearer couldn’t say much else I suppose..RIP Thatcher.

            • Rodel 3.2.1.1.2.1
              12 April 2013 at 10:10 pm

              Yes RIP!..as someone said today in an editor letter about the so called iron lady…’rust in piece’

      • Bunji 3.2.2
        9 April 2013 at 1:36 pm

        He almost did…

        And acknowledging it while saying (almost) nothing is more powerful. It’s no mistake of forgetting, it’s not uncivil or disrespectful to a fellow human being, but there’s no tribute either.

        We remember “her significant impact on the global political environment” – but not in a good way…

        • Gosman 3.2.2.1
          9 April 2013 at 1:47 pm

          The people of Eastern Europe who suffered under brutal left wing regimes might beg to differ…

          • Colonial Viper 3.2.2.1.1
            9 April 2013 at 1:51 pm

            Oh shucks Gossie, you still haven’t figured out that the Stalinist authoritarian eastern block had nothing to do with actual socialism or communism?

            Let alone democratic socialism?

          • McFlock 3.2.2.1.2
            9 April 2013 at 1:54 pm

            More grateful for gorby than thatcher, I reckon.

          • Arfamo 3.2.2.1.3
            9 April 2013 at 1:54 pm

            I rather think the people of Eastern Europe would be as unmoved by her exit as any other low paid populations anywhere. She rescued Britain’s wealthy from losses.

          • Lightly 3.2.2.1.4
            9 April 2013 at 4:30 pm

            the ones I know are celebrating the death of someone who attacked working people to protect the elite, just as the crumbling regimes that they grew up under did.

            And I don’t know anyone who credits Thatcher with ending the Eastern Bloc.

    • Pete 3.3
      9 April 2013 at 1:30 pm

      Agreed. This is hardly a hagiography: She was a big deal. She’s dead. We remember what she did.

  4. Rob 4
    9 April 2013 at 1:20 pm

    5 sentence statement, more evidence that Shearer is a rogernome in disguise, amirite?

  5. tamati 5
    9 April 2013 at 1:23 pm

    You disagree with MANY of her policies David? Perhaps you could show that in actions rather than words?

  6. The Fan Club 6
    9 April 2013 at 1:32 pm

    This shouldn’t have gone out. Not fucking needed.

    • the pigman 6.1
      9 April 2013 at 11:12 pm

      Hey TFC, is it true you’re close to Grant Robertson? May we assume he shares this view? (and is it time to upgrade the coup threat level again?)

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 11:20 pm

        You are clearly a Cunliffe devotee. Shame on you.

        • the pigman 6.1.1.1
          10 April 2013 at 12:24 am

          I don’t think preferring the leadership prospect of Cunliffe over the soon-to-be-rolled-Captain Mumblefuck or Grant “excuse me while I sharpen my knives” Robertson is anything to be ashamed of…

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1
            10 April 2013 at 12:26 am

            Child support amendment bill part 3

            • the pigman 6.1.1.1.1.1
              10 April 2013 at 1:28 am

              Bloody hell CV, do you mind telling me what your issue is with DCs/Labour’s position on the CS amendment bill?

              What is your personal experience of it?

              I have filed administrative review applications, family court applications, and high court appeals relating to departures from the formula assessment/special circumstances. The CSA as it is (or at least when it was in 2010 when I last dealt with it) is a nightmare and a complete piece of shit at dealing with individual circumstances and their outcomes for children.

              DC is right on the money that there are defaulting fathers who lose contact with their children because they are tax defaulters. That is not their childrens’ fault, yet the right of the child to have a relationship with both of its parents is abrogated by this situation.

              I had a client living in the UK having no contact with his son in NZ because he was a defaulter, the CSA would not genuinely look at what his actual income was in the UK (but was relying on the mother’s best guess) and he was too terrified to even enter the country for bi-annual contact because of the threat of arrest.

              I would dearly love to hear what you find so shameful in DCs position.

              • Colonial Viper …
                10 April 2013 at 1:40 am

                Mate, I should clarify in case you haven’t been following this site for long – I think it’s a slowly unfolding disaster that the Labour caucus chose an inexperienced rookie backbencher as Labour Leader, someone a dozen commentators here on The Standard could easily out-debate on Left Wing policy, rationale and economics in their sleep, instead of David Cunliffe.

                Not only have the Labour caucus done the historic cause of the Labour Party a great disservice (and likely hastened its death proper), they’ve proven once and for all that an analogy to the Tory sense of born to rule entitlement is alive and kicking within the Labour Party.

              • Descendant Of Sssmith …
                10 April 2013 at 6:24 am

                Seems to me he doesn’t have a relationship with his children cause he left the country.

                He having already made that choice you’re saying that the relationship is doomed because he can’t occasionally visit NZ and that he can afford to regularly come back to NZ from the UK at a cost of umpteen thousand dollars a time but he can’t afford to pay his child support + arrears.

                His relationship with the chid might actually be a darn sight better if the child knew he was providing the financial support that he should be.

                Maybe he should spend the trip money on clearing his arrears since he is so committed to his child. I’m sure mum would appreciate it.

                • the pigman …
                  10 April 2013 at 4:06 pm

                  DoS I completely agree that there are things that father should have done – the CSA proceedings sat alongside a whole raft of other proceedings (for example, mum had previously got an order preventing removal of the child from NZ and had them arrested in Thailand by interpol, etc., so there was fault on both sides) involving two of the most difficult litigants I ever encountered.

                  But the point that DC makes very convincingly is that this is not the child’s fault. To some extent it is often not even the liable parents’ fault since the CS scheme generally is so poorly administered and so “one size fits all” as opposed to being child-focused. After all, the objective of the Act is to get money for the purpose of supporting a child – it would hardly be a step too far to include the paramountcy principle in the Act (as it appears in other legislation regarding children such as in the CoCA and CYPFA.

                  I have been following the standard since 2010, and am pretty apprised of your views expressed both here and elsewhere in general CV – I just don’t get what you find in DC’s speech on this act to object to. Unless its some kind of self-referential humour that has gone over my head 😕

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    10 April 2013 at 4:25 pm

                    yeah I’m just being a clever dicky. I was doing my McFlock Faux Outrage Imitation, anyone who praises a Cunliffe speech or says anything negative about Shearer MUST by definition be a faith driven DC acolyte.

                    DC landed a lot of good punches with his speech on the amendment – especially as much of his presentation was ad lib, off the cuff, with his only notes being references to statistics and facts

                    • McFlock …
                      11 April 2013 at 1:39 pm

                      I made thirteen comments on this thread, didn’t mention Cunliffe once from what I can see.

                      You inserted an entire cunliffe speech that’s irrelevant to the topic of Labour’s reaction to thatcher’s death.

                      I don’t know about everyone who criticizes Shearer or praises Cunliffe, but you have demonstrated more than enough obsessive faith in DC to earn the rank “acolyte”.

                      Get over yourself.

                      [edit] it was quite a good speech, though

  7. gobsmacked 7
    9 April 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I’m very anti-Shearer’s leadership but I don’t see much to jump on with that statement. He can’t exactly say “Woo hoo”, so it’s pointedly short, respectful of a human being’s death, and little else.

    Contrast with Obama’s nauseating gush, today.

    • felix 7.1
      9 April 2013 at 1:37 pm

      “who loved her country”

      “many of”

      “service to the people of Britain and her”

      Take those words out and it’s fine.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 7.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 1:39 pm

        The part about service is cleverly worded. It makes no judgement of the quality or value of the service, merely that it is being remembered.

        • felix 7.1.1.1
          9 April 2013 at 2:07 pm

          Isn’t “service” itself loaded with value judgment though? It’s hardy a neutral word like “actions” or “work”.

          Perhaps “service AT the people of Britain” might be more appropriate 😉

          • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1
            9 April 2013 at 2:12 pm

            “Work” implies effort, “actions” implies activity, “service” merely implies “held office”.

            • James N 7.1.1.1.1.1
              9 April 2013 at 2:18 pm

              Except in the animal husbandry sense….

            • felix 7.1.1.1.1.2
              9 April 2013 at 2:43 pm

              Yes point taken McF, it certainly could be read that way. On reflection I think it’s the implication that it was for “the people of Britain” that grates rather than the bit at the front.

              • McFlock …
                9 April 2013 at 3:07 pm

                Yeah, but you’ve got to say that shit by and large.

                Same reason that you don’t call someone a dick at their funeral. It looks childish and naive. Same sort of thing as key’s NZ-NK war gaff while on a trade mission to China (about the only country on the planet that supports NK).

                • felix …
                  9 April 2013 at 5:39 pm

                  Of course you don’t call them a dick. And no-one suggested he say anything of the sort.

                  But nor do you go out of you way to praise them for something you don’t believe they actually did.

                  Palmer nailed it.

    • Arfamo 7.2
      9 April 2013 at 1:39 pm

      “Contrast with Obama’s nauseating gush, today.”

      Exactly. Like him or not, Opposition leaders have to sometimes make the odd statesman-like comment on significant events. Pity our current PM doesn’t know the difference between statesman-like comments and “off-the-top-my-head silliness that I should’ve thought about before I opened my mouth”.

  8. One Anonymous Knucklehead 8
    9 April 2013 at 1:36 pm

    Meanwhile, a search for “Chavez” on the Labour website returns one result. The headline?

    “Black Sox win will inspire young Kiwis”

    Says it all really.

    • GregJ 8.1
      9 April 2013 at 5:05 pm

      Although in fairness there was no press release by the Greens either on Chavez’s death – actually most mentions of him were from Keith Locke’s time as a MP.

      You could contrast Shearer’s release with Julia Gillard’s comments. Now Shearer isn’t PM like Gillard but I’m going to cut him some slack here.

      • Murray Olsen 8.1.1
        10 April 2013 at 12:48 am

        Australian Labor is pretty much like National with mining revenues to spend. I’d expect no less from Gillard. The Liberal Party are closer to ACT, mixed with a good serving of the native tree guy from down south and Kyle Chapman.

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.2
        10 April 2013 at 12:54 am

        A mention of the ordinary people and the industries she fucked over would have been appropriate.

        “We cannot forget that part of Lady Thatcher’s legacy was the deliberate disruption of workers rights, the permanent undermining of ordinary working class communities and the foreclosing of key industries.”

  9. irascible 9
    9 April 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Sheare’s comment is enough said… what is not stated or said speaks far more loudly than anything else. He notes that a past PM of the UK has died and leaves it at that.
    There is no need for any examination of her life in this statement… once the PR noise dies down the critical evaluation of her damaged legacy can take place. In the meantime consider this from The Guardan.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-steve-bell-cartoon

  10. mac1 10
    9 April 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Similar expression to Geoffrey Palmer on Radio Live when questioned upon whether Thatcher was the greatest PM of the 20th century. His reply was that she had a great effect upon Britain while PM.

  11. gobsmacked 11
    9 April 2013 at 1:46 pm

    In a few minutes, Parliament will convene? Minute’s silence? Hope not.

    It only takes one objection …

    • Gosman 11.1
      9 April 2013 at 1:52 pm

      If someone from the left chooses to be so churlish it would be good to see. I doubt it would endeer this person to the wider public.

      • McFlock 11.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 1:59 pm

        good opportunity for hone, I guess – make a statement about a tory and an imperialist in one. Unless the Greens or a lab backbencher want to show a bit of backbone.

        But the labour front bench need to act like leaders, not petulant dicks. One of the few occasions we agree gos – even though it’s on tactics, not principle.

        • Rich 11.1.1.1
          9 April 2013 at 2:00 pm

          How long would an MP be thrown out for if they shouted Maggie/Maggie/Maggie – Dead/Dead/Dead during a minute’s silence?

          • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1
            9 April 2013 at 2:05 pm

            Thatcher better be paying for her own funeral. Or is she going to get a socialised tax payer bought for State funeral.

            • McFlock 11.1.1.1.1.1
              9 April 2013 at 2:16 pm

              Ayn Rand got medicare.

              Thatcher’s burial might as well be an appropriation from the public purse as a matter of perceived entitlement. Bookend the hypocrisy.

    • TheContrarian 11.2
      9 April 2013 at 1:58 pm

      Yeah I was thinking the same thing. They’ll recognise it I am sure.

    • felix 11.3
      9 April 2013 at 2:05 pm

      That was about 20 seconds I reckon.

      More than she deserved.

      • Private Baldrick 11.3.1
        9 April 2013 at 2:29 pm

        Did it take a lot of practice to become such a cunt or is it a congenital affliction like my love of turnips ?

        [r0b: Baldrick – please stick with one email address. The first comment from any new address is held in moderation, so all your comments are going to moderation. Stick with one address and you can comment directly.]

  12. ianmac 12
    9 April 2013 at 1:58 pm

    The Shearer comment is OK by me.
    It is very true that Mrs Thatcher had a huge effect on the UK (detrimental.) and the World. (distasteful/destructive)
    It is OK to pass on condolences to family and friends.
    Thatcher a passionate formidable approach. (Bully)
    It seems that she had a philosophy (as did Helen) where Mr Key has a “pragmatic” approach which seems to deny a philosophy.
    So Mr Shearer’s voice is OK by me.

  13. Rich 13
    9 April 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Apart from anything else, the D.O.T.B has provided us with a useful gauge of which supposed left-wingers are actually unreconstructed apologists for whatever global capitalism tells them.

    • deemac 13.1
      9 April 2013 at 2:12 pm

      Why would you expect anything about Chavez to be on the LP website? Any condolences will have been made to the Venezuelan people, not to Kiwis.
      Politicians have to say something innocuous when leaders die. Get over it.
      Some people are just sitting at home waiting to be offended!

  14. Roy 14
    9 April 2013 at 2:37 pm

    What evidence is there that Thatcher loved her country? I only ever saw evidence that she loved herself.

    • Arfamo 14.1
      9 April 2013 at 2:43 pm

      She saved it from becoming a decent society.

    • Te Reo Putake 14.2
      9 April 2013 at 2:46 pm

      Well, in the sense that she saw her country in class terms and ‘her’ Britain was the rich and the wannabee rich. The rest were serfs to be exploited, as the poll tax made explicitly clear.

    • Rodel 14.3
      9 April 2013 at 9:00 pm

      Ask the 225 or so expendable Brits who died in the Falklands and the Argentinians.

  15. Enough is Enough 15
    9 April 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Typical Shearer

    No idea what the fuck he is talking about. Trying to sound centrist and statesman like but as per usual pissing everyone off

  16. Lionel 16
    9 April 2013 at 3:20 pm

    he also said on Breakfast that she was seen by some as devisive

  17. SukieDamson 17
    9 April 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Compared to the labour effort, a polished turd?

    http://johnkey.co.nz/archives/1631-PM-pays-tribute-to-Lady-Thatcher.html

  18. Santi 18
    9 April 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Mr Shearer appears as lost as biblical Adam on Mother’s Day.

  19. JonL 19
    9 April 2013 at 4:24 pm

    ““Adolph Hitler/General Pinochet/fill in despot of choice was a passionate and formidable politician who loved his country”

    “he/she was a strong and decisive leader with unwavering principles”

    One should always say good of the dead. She’s dead. Good!

    That labour feel they have to join the praise bandwagon, however faint, tells us a lot about where labour stands.

    On the ABC Q&A program, when news came through about her death, Germaine Greer reminded everyone that her crimes don’t vanish, just because she’s died! That would be the utmost disrespect to everyone her and her policies have screwed over!

  20. xtasy 20
    9 April 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Barren a** is a title they still use in the UK, do they?

    How respectful of David Shearer, he must have met Maggie at some stage.

    Did they have a cuppa tea together, like John and John did?

    But this is just part of the etiquette, is it not, same as moments of silence in Parliament, and some expressed condolences and the likes.

    I can forgive David for going a bit “over board” with this press release.

  21. Brian 21
    9 April 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Having suffered through Thatcher’s regime and not being in any need of conforming to some false sense of political correctness, unlike David I can say wtf I like.

    Her death came about thirty years too late.

    • McFlock 21.1
      9 April 2013 at 5:24 pm

      Cheer up, Brian.

      You know what they say.
      Some things in life are bad.
      They can really make you mad.
      Other things just make you swear and curse.
      When you’re chewing on life’s gristle, Don’t grumble. Give a whistle.
      And this’ll help things turn out for the best.
      And…

    • Bill 21.2
      9 April 2013 at 6:06 pm

      Dunno Brian, 30 years ago I wanted that bitch dead. And I’d like to think it won’t be forgotten or excused that she trashed the lives of many people and communities – that entire generations were laid to waste for the sake of her ideology.

      But 30 years on my feelings had shifted. I wanted her to suffer her ill health and degenerating mental capacity for the longest of times. Another 30 years wouldn’t have been too long in my opinion. But hey. She’s dead. Shame that.

  22. Steve (North Shore) 22
    9 April 2013 at 7:32 pm

    It was a long time ago, and she did the right thing at the right time.
    Saved Britain from becoming today’s Greece.
    Who is going to save NZ?

    • Colonial Viper 22.1
      9 April 2013 at 7:56 pm

      Saved Britain from becoming today’s Greece.

      Britain has public debt 2.4x it’s annual tax revenues.

      It’s private and off balance sheet banking debt is far higher than this.

      What are you talking about?

      • Addison 22.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 8:18 pm

        Isn’t that after 10 years of Labour!

        • Colonial Viper 22.1.1.1
          9 April 2013 at 8:58 pm

          Yes, they called themselves “Labour”.

        • Daveo 22.1.1.2
          9 April 2013 at 9:01 pm

          Actually it’s after the financial crisis caused in large part by thatcher’s ‘big bang’ deregulation of the financial sector.

      • prism 22.1.2
        9 April 2013 at 8:30 pm

        cv
        Please don’t ask Steve what he is talking about he’ll only embarrass himself or perhaps herself, further. Doesn’t have a clue just some words that wannabe wealthies have said in his hearing.

    • ghostrider888 22.2
      9 April 2013 at 8:01 pm

      ? (guess it won’t be the wide-mouthed frog).

      • prism 22.2.1
        9 April 2013 at 8:33 pm

        what are you referring to? wide mouthed frogs are in a crossword puzzle thats really got me stumped. is there a saying?

  23. Addison 23
    9 April 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Well just a quick visit. Most of the comments above support a former statement I made that the failed trade unionists from the UK are all alive and now in NZ. Having succeeded in stuffing up the UK economy in the 70s until Thatcher got in and stuffed them. You are all live and well now in NZ trying the same old rubbish here. Don’t you cretins realize, the only socialist states that survive are borne through revolution, survive through destroying freedom of speech and democracy and by force of military. Once the light of democracy is revived they fail. Check out the USSR and China how quickly Maos suit has been replaced by smart business suits. Your brand of socialism is best left back in the Thirties, it’s just you fools still live there.

    • karol 23.1
      9 April 2013 at 8:35 pm

      Why would ex-UK trade unionists, who don’t have family connections here, come to NZ. Surely they would go to more union-friendly countries, like Aussie. Or go to northern European social democracies.

      Changes were needed in the UK, but not the ones Thatcher made. And now the UK is struggling because she totally destroyed the manufacturing base, favouring more the financial services in the City of London.

      *yawn* the old USSR & China misdirection, equating autocratic state capitalism with democratically elected left social democratic governments.

      • Addison 23.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 8:50 pm

        Sorry Karol but your wrong. The unions destroyed manufacturing and mining and most heavy industry in the UK. When an industry becomes unviable due to the restrictive practices that unions forced on those industries then it’s destroyed. Unless of course you have the attitude that industry should be another form of state sponsored welfare. What would you do with a certain alliminium smelted. Give a private company millions of Government money to save a few jobs or let it die a natural death. I guess you would go for the Nationalise option and waste even more of the Governments money.

        • ghostrider888 23.1.1.1
          9 April 2013 at 8:53 pm

          Nope

        • karol 23.1.1.2
          9 April 2013 at 9:09 pm

          If a business/industry can’t afford to pay a fair wage and for decent working conditions, then they don’t have a viable business.

          Tiwai Point is a complicated issue. See Lynn’s post and the following discussion and IrishBill’s post, here:

          Closing it down is one option worth considering.

        • Murray Olsen 23.1.1.3
          10 April 2013 at 12:58 am

          Paying back the Americans for WW2 debt had a lot to do with the demise of British manufacturing. They never developed much past 1930’s technology, in part because of shortage of cash to invest. Thatcher decided the future was in financial speculation, much like Key and his disciples have done. There was nothing natural about the death of British industry, any more than there was anything natural about the deaths of thousands of people in countries run by Thatcher’s mates.

        • Tony 23.1.1.4
          10 April 2013 at 1:34 am

          Goodness. It’s hard to take you seriously with your abysmal spelling and grammar.

      • Addison 23.1.2
        9 April 2013 at 8:53 pm

        Name one socialist elected government that is doing really well and tolerates freedom of speech and has lasted longer that the western right wing or right of center countries like the USA or UK that survive.

        • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.1
          9 April 2013 at 8:54 pm

          And can tap dance while juggling flaming bowling pins

          • ghostrider888 23.1.2.1.1
            9 April 2013 at 8:57 pm

            Brother.ha! (must be the phase of the moon) 🙂

          • Addison 23.1.2.1.2
            9 April 2013 at 9:00 pm

            So does that mean you can’t name one! Come on tell me one suvpccesfu, socialist state you admire. I assume you don’t admire gulags, gas ovens and some of the other tools socialists states use for their survival.

            • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.1.2.1
              9 April 2013 at 9:02 pm

              Gulags, forced rendition, guantanamo and Predators.

            • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.1.2.2
              9 April 2013 at 9:16 pm

              Warrantless wire tapping and search, militarisation of local police forces, political corporate friendly judicial appointees, indefinite detention without charge, unreviewable authorisations to kill citizens

            • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.1.2.4
              9 April 2013 at 9:38 pm

              Obama’s record prosecutions of whistleblowers like Manning

              http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/05/obama-campaign-brags-about-whistleblower-persecutions

            • KJT 23.1.2.1.2.5
              10 April 2013 at 3:05 am

              Switzerland. Norway, Germany.
              France, Sweden and NZ until they got bitten by the neo-liberal poison,.

              All markedly more socialist than the UK and USA. And much more successful in keeping the majority of their people prosperous and healthy..

              The USA when it was most prosperous. 90% taxes on millionaires.

              Russia was socialist for about two weeks after the revolution. Until the authoritarian dictators removed the democratic soviets.

              As for communism, the most successful example was the Israeli kibbutz.
              Unfortunately ruined by the rise of selfish capitalism.

              Then there is the UK. Much of which is a poverty stricken wasteland.
              And a repressive police state.

            • rosy 23.1.2.1.2.6
              10 April 2013 at 4:18 am

              “Name one socialist elected government that is doing really well and tolerates freedom of speech and has lasted longer that the western right wing or right of center countries like the USA or UK”

              What are you talking about? U.S. and the U.K. don’t even make the top 15 most democratic countries, according to the Economist.

              Top 15 most democratic countries (categories: electoral process and pluralism; civil liberties; the functioning of government; political participation; and political culture)
              http://www.economist.com/node/8908438

              Sweden
              Iceland
              Netherlands
              Norway
              Denmark
              Finland
              Luxembourg
              Australia
              Canada
              Switzerland
              Ireland
              New Zealand
              Germany
              Austria
              Malta

        • ghostrider888 23.1.2.2
          9 April 2013 at 8:55 pm

          if you kept up with the current events you would see that the days of “freedom of speech” etc and all the other “achievements” of “western democracies” are over; sheeez!

        • karol 23.1.2.3
          9 April 2013 at 9:01 pm

          I said social democracy. Not socialist. Try Scandanavian social democracies.

          PS: The UK and US economies aren’t doing that well – is why the poor are struggling and the wealthy failures get bail-outs.

        • Tony 23.1.2.4
          10 April 2013 at 1:29 am

          Norway.

        • Morrissey 23.1.2.5
          10 April 2013 at 6:46 am

          WARNING!

          This bloke “Addison” is an ACT Party stooge. Don’t engage with him. He is not prepared to argue in good faith.

          [lprent: I’d already identified him as a flame troll, ACToid variant. Too stupid to argue they get their jollies by being a dickhead about semantics. Spent too much time in debating societies rather than doing anything constructive. ]

          • Addison 23.1.2.5.1
            10 April 2013 at 4:25 pm

            Just shows how stupid you are if you have iIDENTIFIED that. SO wrong never voted for ACT never would. Yes a fan of the present government and hated CLark. She would have loved to have been a dictator!

  24. Tanz 24
    9 April 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Hear, hear, David. She was a hero. We need more like her, a tower of strength and fairness.

    • Colonial Viper 24.1
      9 April 2013 at 9:00 pm

      Strong leaders like Pinochet and Franco.

      • Addison 24.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 9:02 pm

        And Adolph Hitler, Marks, Stallin and all those other wonderful socialists.

        [lprent: This idiot troll is makes me want to put back the godwin derived auto-moderation. FFS he is so inarticulate he can’t even spell their names.

        Or I could just ban him for inarticulate dumbness and an inability to argue anything apart from silly slogans. So far in his comments he appears to be below the lowest common denominator.

        Lets see if he can read a link like the policy and escape my stupidity test. In the meantime he can be auto-moderated until he displays an ability to make a comment that shows more intelligence than a reflexive robot. ]

        • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1
          9 April 2013 at 9:03 pm

          Hmmmmmm none of them were socialists. Are you ignorant?

          • ghostrider888 24.1.1.1.1
            9 April 2013 at 9:11 pm

            just ignore them Viper (generally this is an intelligent forum, yet…)
            Addison, why don’t you do some research into the political foundations of the PRC and then get back to us aye; (you know, those previously predominantly peasant folk who Mao declared would all become wealthy in time). or, are you scared to face the reality of sacrificing your own slow-boat. FFS (yes, there are some “thugs” around the Left too).

        • Tanz 24.1.1.2
          9 April 2013 at 9:07 pm

          Unless they mean Karl Marx, of course.

        • Murray Olsen 24.1.1.3
          10 April 2013 at 1:01 am

          Lprent, please just boot him. He’s bloody tiresome.

          [lprent: In the usual course of events he will probably boot himself with his behaviour. Hell I’d already ‘noticed’ him and he has only been back on for a few days. Resetting the clock with an amnesty means that even flame trolls get another chance to show if they have managed to grow up yet. But I suspect that addison is too arrogant and too stupid to survive in this environment. ]

          • Addison 24.1.1.3.1
            10 April 2013 at 4:31 pm

            PS You didn’t give me an amnesty, I left as I Was dis jared with the treats of violence that were submitted , if you remember you banned one of you regular contributors over that. Still like always make things up as you go along. It seems adifferent opinion from yours gets banned. What a lovely Country we would have if you had the numbers to form a Government. Fortunately you can’t even muster a candidate !

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 24.1.1.3.1.1
              11 April 2013 at 6:56 am

              Memo to Addison: other people’s lines are not your opinions, any more than Polly really wants a cracker.

  25. Addison 25
    9 April 2013 at 9:07 pm

    So what’s you party it ain’t Labour that’s for sure. Labour NZ is pretty damn close to conservative Thatcher!

    • Tanz 25.1
      9 April 2013 at 9:09 pm

      The Conservative Party, Colin Craig. They want binding referenda on all social issues, not just asset sales.

      • The Al1en 25.1.1
        9 April 2013 at 9:13 pm

        “The Conservatives.”

        CC = Twat.

      • ghostrider888 25.1.2
        9 April 2013 at 9:14 pm

        dreams are free, just keep out of the wet spot; hard to get those stains out without bleach.

        • The Al1en 25.1.2.1
          9 April 2013 at 9:31 pm

          Vote colin craig, prospective parliamentary candidate for Loontopia.

          Should there be a tax on poor peoples dreams? Yes/No

          Should the unemployed be forced to sleep on wet patches until they get a job? Yes/No

          Should solo mums have to drink bleach before applying for the dpb? Yes/No

      • KJT 25.1.3
        10 April 2013 at 3:15 am

        Nothing wrong with BCIR. We should have them.

        With a much lower threshold of signatures to get them.

        I doubt CC would get the results he wants however, but neither would Key, Hide or Banks..

  26. Tanz 26
    9 April 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Standard, don’t you think Ghost is out of line somewhat?

  27. Tanz 27
    9 April 2013 at 10:08 pm

    completely off topic, cryptic.

    • The Al1en 27.1
      9 April 2013 at 10:15 pm

      “Standard, don’t you think Ghost is out of line somewhat?”

      Hole 😆

      Not out of line, just out of your class.

    • felix 27.2
      9 April 2013 at 10:17 pm

      Is it? I dunno, I don’t find ghostie hard to follow.

      Didn’t know what you were on about though, does that make you cryptic too?

  28. Tanz 28
    9 April 2013 at 10:21 pm

    no wonder the left keeps shedding votes then. You really are worried about CC, it seems.

    • felix 28.1
      9 April 2013 at 10:33 pm

      Sorry that’s still a bit cryptic for me. Can you explain what you mean?

    • Murray Olsen 28.2
      10 April 2013 at 1:06 am

      I’d be worried about leaving a pet dog with Colin Craig, but as far as seeing him as an effective political force, nah. There’s only so much of a retarded homophobe religious wack job vote out there. He’s welcome to split it with Banks and a few others.

      • the pigman 28.2.1
        10 April 2013 at 1:38 am

        With CC firmly installed as High Priest Dickcheese of Loontopia, I propose binding referenda on the following questions:

        Is a pet dog a more effective political force than Colin Craig? (yes/no)

        Should homophobes be required to give whack jobs to retards? (yes/no)

        Should we split the Banks? (yes/fuck yes)

  29. deemac 29
    10 April 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Martin McGuinness, former chief of staff ot the IRA, has told republicans to stop celebrating Thatcher’s death: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/martin-mcguinness-end-thatcher-celebrations
    Will those Standardistas so desperate to prove how right-on they are now denounce him too?
    Dave Spart lives!

  30. kiwi_prometheus 30
    10 April 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Max Keiser on Thatcher:

    “Hours of Thatcher obit programming and not one mentions North Sea oil coming online at exactly the same moment she became prime minister.

    Notice too that the whole thing goes tits up in the UK as it declines . . . again – another fact conveniently left out of ALL financial news coverage here.

    It’s almost as if mentioning their oil bonanza would destroy their myth that enabling fraud is what has made them so rich!”

    http://maxkeiser.com/2013/04/09/sure-maggie-saved-britain/

    • Colonial Viper 30.1
      10 April 2013 at 8:36 pm

      Max and Stacey, love’m both 🙂

    • rosy 30.2
      10 April 2013 at 9:27 pm

      Also conveniently forgotten was the ‘oil price shock’ in 1973 that sent the western world, in particular the UK into meltdown and led the manufacturing crisis and to her landslide victory. It wasn’t the unions who broke Britain and made it the so-called sick-man of Europe and it wasn’t Thatcher who saved it, it was North Sea oil.

      I remember seeing doco once (I can’t find it) that described how she has four attempts at restoring the economy using monetarist principles and none worked. In the end tax rises, the Falklands war spending and developing were North Sea oil crucial to pumping funds into the economy.

  31. henry olongo 31
    10 April 2013 at 10:06 pm

    I was raised to not speak ill of the dead.
    However, this woman was a monster.
    Margaret Thatcher’s harbouring of Pinochet summed her up.
    The jingoistic cynical Falklands debacle earned her the nickname ‘mother of 1000 dead’.
    The lie upon lie that she told about Ulster (we dont negotiate with terrorists- when they met constantly, there is no murder campaign against nationalist leaders- when it never ceased, there is no link between the British govt and Loyalist terrorists- when there always was…) was an absolute stain on her performance.
    Her son became a mercenary…
    The world is a better place without her.

    • Tim 31.1
      10 April 2013 at 10:35 pm

      +1
      And the world would probably be a better place without dearest Mark and his mercenary mates! Christ – her era was almost like she believed the Empire at it’s worst was, and should be still alive.

      All those apologists that crack on about how we should not speak ill of the dead (which is something I’d usually agree with), there’s an exception that disproves every rule. Maggie and her handbag epitomised that.

      I’ve just been watching dear old Paxman’s final episode of Empire ….. mmmmm, followed by Richo on SKOI News Okker. (Supposedly the latter being the voice of reason of Okker Labor – NOT)

      What’s so hard to understand that when people are oppressed, EVENTUALLY they’ll rise up and revolt. And when the oppressed become a majority, we shouldn’t be surprised when there are shitty outcomes for the oppressors

      • felix 31.1.1
        10 April 2013 at 10:47 pm

        On speaking ill of the dead, I like this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

        This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure’s death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power.

        But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren’t silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person’s death to create hagiography.

        Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

  32. Lloyd 32
    10 April 2013 at 10:49 pm

    David,

    Maggie Thatcher only loved that part of Great Britain that wasn’t poor. She was fundamentally opposed to any group which attempted to rectify problems of economic inequality, such as unions.

    Her actions increased poverty in a significant portion of the UK population and that disparity is still growing as a result of her ignorant, ideologically based actions.

    Any analysis of her policies must recognise that ultimately all her political legacy has had a negative effect on the UK, other than on a few financial Flash Harrys.

    Every one of her changes to the UK had a better alternative.

  34. Jenny 34
    12 April 2013 at 8:35 pm

    “Let’s privatise her funeral.
    Put it out to competitive
    tender and accept the
    cheapest bid.

    It’s what she would have wanted”

    Ken Loach

Links to post

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.