National’s gang patch ban may hinder police investigations

Written By: - Date published: 10:55 am, September 18th, 2024 - 18 comments
Categories: crime, human rights, law, law and "order", mark mitchell, national, paul goldsmith, police, same old national - Tags:

Gangs have been in the news recently.

Police Minister Mark Mitchell has taken every opportunity to gloat about almost every member of the Comanchero Motor Bike Gang being arrested in a drug bust. This was a police operation that was started three years ago under the then Labour Government but National never lets such details get in the way of the chance to score some tough on crime soundbites.

The evidence relating to the charges is not public yet but I am sure that the Police would have targetted the Comanchero’s social media, cell phones, and bank accounts. No doubt there would have been listenening devices used as well.

Modern policing involves the collection of huge amounts of data. As I have seen time and time again social media is really important for the Police in working out who has a relationship with who and who was where at a particular time.

As noted by Jared Savage in the Herald the gang hired a former US marine to put gang members through military training. Police managed to work out details of this from photos the marine had on his phone.

Savage reinforces the importance of social media to the police in this passage:

Social media has been one of [the Comanchero’s] most effective recruiting tools.

They are one of several gangs that have taken to posting content online to portray their strength in numbers, flaunt their wealth, or poke fun at law enforcement.

The other current gang related news is National’s determination to clamp down on gangs.

They have recently announced changes to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill that is making its way through Parliament.

The bill is mired in difficulties. There are Bill of Rights issues galore and there are real questions about what the bill would achieve. Justice in its advice on the bill said “[t]here is no evidence to suggest that a suppression approach will work to reduce long-term offending behaviours by gangs, or eliminate gangs altogether.”

To compound the Bill of Rights issues and the feeling that the process has been completely mishandled there have been recent announcements of changes to the bill including a ban on the wearing of patches in their own home by qualifying gang members and confirmation as late as last night that the display of gang patches in cars would also be banned.

The bill has already been through the select committee process. Goldsmith intends to shoehorn these changes into the bill AFTER it has been reported back. If you are a citizen and want to have your say on the bill you are tough out of luck.

But here is the thing about the bill. Banning gang patches will reduce the police’s ability to monitor gang members. Patches are by far the best way to identify gang members. Hiding them away will have a significant detrimental effect on Police’s intelligence gathering.

And I wonder at the utility of making membership of a gang an aggravating factor in sentencing. How many gang members will be persuaded to not commit any offences any more because their status is an aggravating factor in sentencing? Putting to one side that gang membership already is something the Courts can take into account the answer must be zero. If deterrence worked they would not be committing offences anyway.

National’s proposal is good for sounding tough on crime rhetoric but it has major rights issues that no doubt the Courts will rule on. And it may prevent the police from gathering important intelligence on the identification of gang membership and activities.

How typically National to put PR considerations ahead of assisting police in the identification of criminal activity. And how bizarre.

18 comments on “National’s gang patch ban may hinder police investigations ”

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  1. Tiger Mountain 1
    18 September 2024 at 11:45 am

    Anyone with a genuine understanding of freedom of speech, association and assembly should be opposing the Natzos on this authoritarian move, particularly the entering of homes.

    I have a black sweatshirt bought from a Socialist Party with a circular gang type logo on the back–“All Power to the People!” complete with clenched fist in the centre. The front has “STOP WARS” in the classic Star Wars font.

    Non gang members should consider designing and wearing their own patches as a point of protest. If people meekly accept this authoritarian populist attack, how long will it be before the authorities come for Climate Strike, Palestine Solidarity and Union regalia!

  2. Mike the Lefty 2
    18 September 2024 at 12:51 pm

    As Chris Hipkins pointed out on Morning Report today: its nice that the police would have the time to enter private premises to look for gang patches. It would be even nicer if the police had the time to come to people's houses when they have been burgled and investigate it. (Paraphrased).

    Also Hipkins rightly pointed out the stupidity of allowing easier access to the sort of firearms that the Comencheros had been training to use.

  3. Mountain Tui 3
    18 September 2024 at 1:53 pm

    One of the interesting things about this gang patch obsession is that National are being disingenuous.

    Fighting the symbols of crime while increasing the causes of real crime aka – underpaying police leading to an exodus of experienced officers, cutting customs budgets and drug detection teams, making it easier for criminals to bring in illegal goods, bringing back presently illegal guns, antagonising Maori and making the poor poorer while simultaneously weakening our economy.

    The sign should be:

    National – tough on insignia. Weak on crime.

    And the latest stats should be no surprise – Crime is increasing across all of NZ – including violent crime.

    • Ngungukai 3.1
      18 September 2024 at 2:56 pm

      Not according to what Mitch, Luxton & the Press are telling us ???

      • tWig 3.1.1
        19 September 2024 at 10:32 am

        And you believe the Nat Party PR? This is their point of difference branding LauraNorda to ACT. As we know, Seymour's party has been in the limelight far too much, and Nat Head Office will be desperately clutching at straws to boost Luxon's profile. It will be pumping and tweaking anything at all positive to the max, like the Comancheros investigation, begun three years ago under Labour.

  4. bwaghorn 4
    18 September 2024 at 5:22 pm

    i thought it was police asking for search powers to go looking for patchs ?

    • Ngungukai 4.1
      18 September 2024 at 7:25 pm

      I don't really think "Patch Hunting" is going to be a good use of Police resources and time, I thought it's better to have the gang patches then we know who is who and what is what. If all the gangs remove their insignia we as the Public, don't know whether they are Mongrel Mob, Black Power, Filthy Few or just plain members of the General Public.

      • Ad 4.1.1
        19 September 2024 at 10:41 am

        Symbols matter.

        Just imagine a New Zealand in which there hadn't been a near 50% increase in gang numbers in 5 years.

        Taking the most recent figures (released to The Spinoff under the Official Information Act) and counting back five years gives us a timeframe of February 2019 to February 2024, during which time there was an increase of 3,085. It’s more than 3,000 criminals joining up.

        Minus 3,000 criminals. An NZ in which gangs were minor in society. The number of people that wouldn't have been shot killed and wounded, the volume of drugs not entered the country, the number of women not exploited, the criminal property they wouldn't own, the decreased intimidation of neighbourhoods and towns.

        I don't think Labour will reverse the anti-patching move.

        • Tiger Mountain 4.1.1.1
          19 September 2024 at 11:00 am

          “Snatch the Patch” is an authoritarian move what ever your view or understanding of gangs. Entering private dwellings and car stops to search for gang regalia is way too intrusive for this country.

          501s and their new recruits are not the same as long standing Mangu Kaha or Mighty Mongrel Mob–who in earlier times were definitely a worry too. The provincial long standing gangs are an integrated part of local communities now.

          The Law Society has raised some good points on this…
          https://www.lawsociety.org.nz/news/newsroom/amendment-to-gangs-bill-raises-rule-of-law-and-human-rights-concerns/

        • lprent 4.1.1.2
          19 September 2024 at 12:09 pm

          I simply don’t think that wearing a patch is a functional attraction to joining a gang. I do think that it is a step towards extremely offensive censorship.

          For instance banning the wearing of a Labour pin.
          Or a tee-shirt supporting National.
          A sweatshirt with a university logo.
          A banner supporting rights to form a union or supporting animal rights.
          A cross or other other religious symbol on a building (actually personally I’d be favour of that bearing in mind the history of religions)
          Any symbol supporting a provincial rugby team (I’d also be in favour of that – I live far too close to Eden Park).

          In fact just about anything.

          In NZ we have laws against unlawful offensive behaviour. We don’t ban swastikas despite the associations with a genocidal regime. We do make unlawful to wear unearned military medals, dishonouring the flag (a high bar – burning one is not dishonouring it), but that is about it. Each has a purpose.

          I don’t consider that banning gang patches has any real purpose.

          The symbols will simply move – in the end the police will be trying to stop gang members from using a hair style as has been done in various states.

          If this law goes through, I’ll see about wearing a banned patch to Labour and National party events purely to generate a court case. I suspect the gangs would be happy if people like me helped make a mockery of this stupid bill.

          Prosecuting symbols because of what they represent, rather than prosecuting actual bad behaviour is a symbol of society that is going down the toilet. It has shifted from prosecuting actual actions and started persecuting people for their associations and beliefs.

          • Mountain Tui 4.1.1.2.1
            19 September 2024 at 2:26 pm

            For God's sake lprent I cannot take any more of your common sense.

            Seriously, it's refreshing. Please rub some of your clarity of thought on me. Or at least some of the peeps in charge.

            Thank you for the balance.

            laugh

  5. dv 5
    19 September 2024 at 7:30 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350422397/government-promising-harass-gangs-will-its-plan-work

    With out the patches it will be much harder to know who the gang members are.

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