NRT: Self-serving redactions

Written By: - Date published: 2:36 pm, June 21st, 2015 - 54 comments
Categories: accountability, john key - Tags: , ,

From I/S at No Right Turn:

Self-serving redactions

When Labour released the sheep files on Wednesday, John Key desperately tried to continue his Muldoonist smear by claiming information showing he was right had had to be redacted. But according to NewstalkZB’s Barry Soper, he lied:

But yours truly has been able to lift the blacked out bits and have a squizz beneath them. Having read the naughty bits, it begged the question, why they were blacked out at all, given the papers told us little more than the axing of the live sheep trade didn’t go down well in Riyadh and that it could affect the outcome of the free trade agreement with the region? Now that was hardly a reason for keeping it from our prying eyes.

There was no mention of the threat from the Saudi businessman that he was thinking of taking legal action. Certainly he wasn’t happy the live sheep trade had been stopped, given that he’d invested a lot of money in it and the papers do show the Saudis may have been led to believe the trade could be resumed.

Now you can see why the Tories weren’t interested in releasing the papers, they didn’t fit their spin!

And this is why you should never trust government redactions, or anything they say about a redacted document (or secret information in general): because when they think they can’t be caught out, politicians simply lie.

Update: And more from Radio New Zealand:

Radio New Zealand has seen the uncensored Cabinet documents and there is no mention of threatened legal action by Al-Khalaf, as the Prime Minister has repeatedly claimed, and nothing about a deal.

The papers make clear the then Labour Government knew the Saudi agriculture minister was extremely unimpressed with the continuing ban on live sheep exports, and that it could affect the chances of a free trade deal with the Gulf States.

The papers say there is a low chance of a complaint to the World Trade Organisation.

So our Prime Minister imposes his own cloak of secrecy, then lies about what’s behind it. Which means we should take everything else he says about secret material with a grain of salt as well.

54 comments on “NRT: Self-serving redactions ”

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  1. Nordy 1
    21 June 2015 at 3:16 pm

    But will the rest of the MSM actually do anything about the repeated lies, half-truths and mis-directions from this government?

    We have long since passed the point where political ‘gamesmanship’ has moved on to deception and dishonesty in so many forms.

    The current ‘tolerance’ for the sad excuse for a democracy we live in simply beggars belief.

    I for one don’t want to live in an ‘american-style’ ‘democracy’, but it seems I will all to soon have no choice.

    The next election can’t come soon enough ……

    • hoom 1.1
      21 June 2015 at 3:33 pm

      Well of course not, they are too loaded with Tory Toadies & Dirty Columnists.

    • ian 1.2
      21 June 2015 at 7:37 pm

      I agree with you. This tolerance bullshit needs to be totally expunged from all communications. Even worse this American style democracy needs to be stopped in it’s tracks.Give me North Korea any day. I love the way they blow away dissenters. Imagine John Keys cabinet reshuffle . Imagine the pharmac savings if Nick Smith got the 10 mm machine gun treatment.

      • Colonial Rawshark 1.2.1
        21 June 2015 at 7:45 pm

        Please explain what you mean by “American style democracy.” Do you mean what the US did to Nicaragua? Chile? El Salvador? Democratic Iran? Iraq/Afghanistan? Vietnam and Laos? The Phillipines?

        Gaddafi opposed US financial hegemony and he was blown away for it. The US wants to see Assad blown away too, for his opposition. Saddam was the US best friend until he wasn’t – blown away by the US. Let alone all the CIA assassination attempts on Castro in Cuba. Talk about the machine gun treatment – and the Bay of Pigs debacle.

        You seem pretty bloody smartass, but are you even aware of the history of American empire – and the role the US has had in the creation and sustenance of North Korea?

      • Tracey 1.2.2
        22 June 2015 at 6:59 am

        so, if a government is not like North Korea they must e good? What an extraordinary leap.

    • Tracey 1.3
      22 June 2015 at 6:58 am

      I am pleased to see Soper go deeper on this one. I had him pegged as more sympathetic to the government that to actually go digging.

      Are they starting to dig deeper now cos the tide is turning and they sense maybe their will be new masters in 2 years time.

  2. cogito 2
    21 June 2015 at 3:19 pm

    I think the current expression is “morally bankrupt”. Applies just as much to Key as it does to that other tory fake.

  3. Draco T Bastard 3
    21 June 2015 at 5:09 pm

    So our Prime Minister imposes his own cloak of secrecy, then lies about what’s behind it. Which means we should take everything else he says about secret material with a grain of salt as well.

    Actually, I think that we should just assume that he’s lying even when he’s telling the truth because, as the saying goes A good lie is 1 part truth and nine parts lie. I’d be surprised if he even got up to 1 part truth.

  4. b waghorn 4
    21 June 2015 at 5:13 pm

    To late keys done what he always does chuck out a bs line that all the believers will swallow then slow the truth down long enough that he gets away with it.

  5. Pat 5
    21 June 2015 at 5:13 pm

    so in brief, John Key lies…again

    • Tracey 5.1
      22 June 2015 at 7:00 am

      I wonder when it will matter that our PM has lied and lied and lied and when he hasn’t lied he has misled the public.

  6. Peter 6
    21 June 2015 at 6:13 pm

    … sadly the PM’s approach to integrity and leadership is the new acceptable normality …. he can say pretty much anything and get away with it.

  7. Sacha 7
    21 June 2015 at 6:24 pm

    The PM had nothing to do with the redactions, other than dishonestly taking advantage of them to continue his lies. Timid MFAT officials concered about our foreign diplomatic reputation are the culprits – hence the part of the OIA they cited.

  8. Pat 8
    21 June 2015 at 6:40 pm

    I can recall a time when,if a Minister, prime or not, lied to the electorate resignation was the only acceptable action…..when did it become acceptable and dismissive behaviour from our politicians…..and equally what is wrong with society’s moral compass if it is so?

    • adam 8.1
      21 June 2015 at 6:59 pm

      When they embraced a morally bankrupt ideological position. Some call it neo-liberalism – I call it liberalism and or capitalism.

      Call it what you will, but either way – it has no morals and embraces all that is flawed in human nature.

    • Anne 8.2
      21 June 2015 at 7:57 pm

      In this day and age, society’s moral compass is decided by the mainstream media. If, as seems to be the case, the bulk of the media has little or no moral compass then its to be expected that neither does society….

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1
        21 June 2015 at 9:07 pm

        +1

      • Tracey 8.2.2
        22 June 2015 at 7:02 am

        It’s also decided by their own self interest. If the people lying are telling lies that the voter believes (eg beneficiaries are bludgers etc) they are happy. The Nats know this and feed it. Self interest doesn’t just mean financial but emotional/psychological, like having your world view reaffirmed no matter how false or damaging it is.

      • NZJester 8.2.3
        22 June 2015 at 7:32 pm

        You could say the MSM have lost their moral compass due to the heavy magnetic pull of their right wing owners.

    • Bob Gibson 8.3
      22 June 2015 at 7:34 am

      I think its time to remove the title (the Honourable )as this no longer applies!

  9. Steve Withers 9
    21 June 2015 at 7:50 pm

    John Key telling lies is getting to be a bit of a cliche. He does it all the time.

    His own National Party – integrity-free as they clearly are – *always* let him get away with it.

    They would all lie too if they were him.

    Yeah…that’s a party you want to be voting for. The Liar Party. The Corrupt Party.

    What does this say about the people who vote for them?

    I fear NZ has passed the tipping point on the corruption scale.

    Thanks, National.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1
      21 June 2015 at 9:18 pm

      +1

      Passed it awhile ago I think. Back in the late 1980s early 1990s with the privatisations that netted some of the scum millions/billions.

    • RedLogix 9.2
      21 June 2015 at 10:24 pm

      This is the sort of thing that increases John Key’s popularity. It makes him look like a winner – and that’s what get their juices going these days.

  10. Ffloyd 10
    21 June 2015 at 7:59 pm

    If he was any sort of a gentleman he would publicly apologise to Annette King!

    • Anne 10.1
      21 June 2015 at 8:33 pm

      To describe John Key as a gentleman is no better than calling Cameron Slater an honorable man. It is a product of their upbringing that they don’t even know what being a gentleman actually means. Wearing ultra expensive suits with greenstone sprinkled through the cloth is NOT part of a true gentleman’s attire.

    • Tracey 10.2
      22 June 2015 at 7:04 am

      It’s important to always remember who John Key has reserved his only apology.

      • tc 10.2.1
        22 June 2015 at 11:48 am

        That’s his moral compass setting right there even if the reasons for the apology were possibly more about risk mitigation and soothing the wildling that is Cammy baby.

  11. philj 11
    21 June 2015 at 8:30 pm

    If he was any sort of gentleman. … lol.

  12. les 12
    21 June 2015 at 9:09 pm

    but can anyone actually prove John Key is a liar..no contest!

  13. Ad 13
    21 June 2015 at 11:34 pm

    Key is just covering for McCully.
    Cabinet had no knowledge of any Saudi – McCully has essentially gone rogue and the PM is doing his political work.

    PM can’t even discipline Smith, who is far worse than McCully right now – Cabinet is actually very brittle right now, except for English, Bennett, Brownlee, And Key.

    A smart PM would get to Whanganui, Taranaki etc, and start handing out blankets, yard brooms, and cheques. Never waste a crisis, Prime Minister.

    • dukeofurl 13.1
      22 June 2015 at 1:16 pm

      The usual story is for him to ….. blame someone else when caught lying.

      After all his daily ‘cheat sheet’ is mostly an orchestrated litany of lies- but written by others, who will offer to resign when caught out, but kept on as it wasnt ‘intentional/labour did it/see if I care’

  14. linda 14
    22 June 2015 at 6:51 am

    i guess key will just lie some more or just switch to denial mode or abuse the questioner

    • NZJester 14.1
      22 June 2015 at 7:41 pm

      You forget change the definition of a word so that what he was saying was not a lie because the word means something totally different to him from what the dictionary definition says.

  15. Matthew Hooton 15
    22 June 2015 at 7:34 am

    I wrote something similar in NBR on Friday. Behind paywall but currently smartphone subscriptions are free.
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/subscribe/174403

  16. Keith 16
    22 June 2015 at 7:35 am

    What this ex Merrill Lynch short term money trader cannot seem to realise is being PM is not a self serving job to enrich ones own bank account at any cost. His behaviour is trashing the office of and any respect left for the position of PM.

    And where are the daily publications on this? Silent!

  17. Save NZ 17
    22 June 2015 at 8:09 am

    Shock Horror, John Key is a Liar!

    The point is not that he is a liar which is well known, the point should be, how in a democracy a PM can just repeatedly lie to the public and waste tax payers money and destroy NZ’s international reputation for being an honest and uncorrupt country, nothing is done about it.

    At least the US impeached Nixon!

    Is there anything legally that can be done?

    • Tracey 17.1
      22 June 2015 at 8:27 am

      How many democratic leaders in the last 40 years have resigned because they were caught lying to the public?

      • Save NZ 17.1.1
        22 June 2015 at 8:36 am

        You tell me.

        I don’t think John Key will resign. I think legal action should be made about all the corrupt deals going on and this will force the issue.

        Even the SIS issue with Phil Goff, Labour they do nothing and agree to give them more powers.

        Something from Bryan Gould.

        I disown this government (written is 2009), The point is, Labour supporters can not stomach the carry on and lack of ethics in the UK, so why would voters?)
        Bryan Gould
        http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/20/labour-foreign-policy

        And one from one from business,

        Think Different.

        Combine the two, reflect and please someone give us some decent opposition in parliament.

        • Colonial Rawshark 17.1.1.1
          22 June 2015 at 10:26 am

          NZF and the Greens can provide some decent opposition in Parliament; but the big guns which should be NZ Labour are all busy working through their internal processes at the moment.

          • Marvellous Bearded Git 17.1.1.1.1
            22 June 2015 at 10:34 am

            @ CRaw
            Andrew Little was in fine form last week in parliament on the housing crisis. He looked confident, relaxed and easily bettered Key who replied with failed weak jokes. See here:

            https://youtu.be/FRzJ6oqt9r8

            • Tracey 17.1.1.1.1.1
              22 June 2015 at 11:39 am

              but until you pointed it out, I had no idea and this is not just Labour’s problem but

              GP, MP, and anyone who the MSM don’t run to…. Dunne and Seymour get more media coverage than the MP.

            • Save NZ 17.1.1.1.1.2
              22 June 2015 at 8:25 pm

              I’m not interested in how Labour debate in parliament and how great Andrew Little is debating against John Key.

              I’m more focused on parties policy and from my point of view and clearly other ex Labour voters they are coming across as neoliberalism Lite, which clearly is also a problem in the Labour UK branch, who also have failed to get into Government.

              The million who are not voting clearly want something else, possibly Ethics as per Bryan Gould comments on the UK Labour.

              I used to vote for Labour NZ, but if they believe in TPP, believe in mass surveillance without warrants, support 5 eyes, support the ideology of the Nats but just seem to want a lighter version of neoliberalism, I can never vote for them.

              In my view many voters have higher dreams for our country than saving a few state houses and putting in a heat pump (which the poor can’t afford to turn on anyway), while selling out soul to global TPP, taking money from schools and health to increase the GCSB and SIS budgets who have zero accountability, and our armed forces to an Occupation in Iraq because the ‘club’ says so to name but a few issues Labour seems ‘soft’ on.

              Maybe Labour are not supporting these issues and have their lighter version. Again confusing and not really realistic, such as asking TPP to keep health care low, (but everything else ok?)

      • repateet 17.1.2
        22 June 2015 at 9:28 am

        If there were lying stats, John Key would have more innings than Kane Williamson and a better (worse that means) average.

  18. Sable 18
    22 June 2015 at 8:42 am

    The problem of course is the watchdog the MSM is in the hands of people who support the status quo so the pubic mostly remain ignorant…..

  19. vto 19
    22 June 2015 at 9:43 am

    It is 2015
    It is 30 years since the self-interest philosophy known as neoliberalism kicked in.
    We have a leader for whom “success” is the sole driver, no matter the cost.
    The population sees lying and cheating as merely tools for “success”.
    The population sees John Key doing this
    The population does the same
    Lying is considered normal

    a very poorly society is what we have

    • cogito 19.1
      22 June 2015 at 12:27 pm

      Lying is now not only considered normal, it is considered smart.

      Kiwis see Key lying, twisting and deceiving every time he opens his mouth…. and getting away with it.

      What an example to our kids and communities, not to mention our businesses, when the PM of NZ – and most of his ministers – lie day in day out.

  20. keith ross 20
    22 June 2015 at 9:55 am

    as far as what an American style democracy is , my definition is one that puts the short term chase of the dollar above anything else , the country, the people , the good of the nation in the short to long term and the belief that anything that helps this end goal of self enrichment is fully justified. The other part is the subservience to business and the accepting of bribes that are just on the line of legality to the detriment of the nation(by the ruling elite).

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