Open mike 01/08/2019

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   1 August 2019 at 7:23 am

   Looks like the communist regime has finally got around to organising the invasion of Hong Kong. Took long enough, due to the concentration camps being overloaded with Uighurs and not enough cattle trucks probably.

   "The White House is monitoring the sudden “congregation” of Chinese forces at the border with Hong Kong… A senior US official who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity said a number of units had gathered, but it’s unclear if they are security police or part of China’s military, Bloomberg reports… Bloomberg cites the White House official as saying the US is watching China’s mainland border manoeuvres. Reports of the gathering of forces has sparked panic among Hong Kong locals on social media." https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/chinese-forces-gathering-at-hong-kong-border-white-house-officials-monitoring-escalation/news-story/82621253f4c093c69834e041713ab34d
   • Peter Christchurh nz 1.1

     1 August 2019 at 9:16 am

     An evil regime. And we saw what happened at Aucklabd university on Tuesday, agents of the Chinese government attacking Chinese students protesting in support of the HK students..

     Tiananmen Square mark 2 maybe. Xi is absolutely Mao reincarnated.
   • Adrian Thornton 1.2

     1 August 2019 at 9:31 am

     That should read Communist/Capitalist regime, it pretty well accepted today that China.is run under some sort of dystopian hybrid ideology of the two…

     Slavoj Žižek: Will our future be Chinese 'capitalist socialism'?

     "Of course, there is a further irony here that is difficult to surpass. The 20th century Left was defined by its opposition to two fundamental tendencies of modernity: the reign of capital with its aggressive individualism and alienating dynamics and authoritarian-bureaucratic state power.

     What we get in today's China is exactly the combination of these two features in its extreme form: a strong authoritarian state and wild capitalist dynamics.
     Orthodox Marxists liked to use the term "dialectical synthesis of the opposites": suggesting true progress takes place when we bring together the best of both opposing tendencies. But it looks like China succeeded by way of bringing together what we considered the worst in both opposing tendencies (liberal capitalism and Communist authoritarianism)."

     https://www.rt.com/op-ed/441873-china-socialism-capitalism-zizek/
     • Dennis Frank 1.2.1

       1 August 2019 at 9:41 am

       A valid technical point, and I agree they haven't conducted the synthesis in the optimal manner. I bet they don't feature the synthesis on their govt website, though, as a politically-correct description of the regime. I suspect Mark will tell us it is actually socialist. If so, I hope he will explain why Bernie Sanders has not been honoured by the regime, or endorse by them as a presidential candidate…
       • Adrian Thornton 1.2.1.1

         1 August 2019 at 10:49 am

         Yeah it is a very real tragedy that China has combined the two worst elements of the two systems, but to be fair, one of my main critiques of Capitalist Liberalism is it's ability in unleashing of the greed id in nearly all human beings that come anywhere near it's orbit,and the resulting poor long term decision making is obvious for us all to see, and often experience, and the decision makers and powerful in China would be no less susceptible to its influence than anyone else in the world.

         One of the very few antidotes to this greed/want disease that is undermining western civilisation as we speak is to offer the opportunity for people and whole communities to be directly involved in a project/idea (or projects/ideas) that is bigger than themselves, something that they want to get out of bed for…argue for, work for..fight for!

         That is why I like what Sanders keeps saying and saying, "This is not about me, it is about you..only you can make this political revolution happen" fucking brilliant, he is going to go a long way in this election cycle, they will (and I am half serious here) need a bullet to stop him.
       • reason 1.2.1.2

         1 August 2019 at 12:36 pm

         A valid technical point

         Nah …. you were just plain wrong …. your message started off being fake and misleading ….Why ?

         Not being very technical is no excuse on your part … Your options are

         a) Lazy

         b) Stupid

         c) Dishonest

         d) Bastard

         But on the topic of authoritarian abuses of power …..It could help the Chinese to hire that fine New Zealand man …… Peter Thiel.

         Maybe they already have.

         I've heard he has no time for 'democracy'

         3mins

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRpAFswLrFA

         [You have been warned before for your aggressive language and insults directed at other commenters here but now you do it again and you also derail the discussion thread. Take a week off to cool off – Incognito]
         • Dennis Frank 1.2.1.2.1

           1 August 2019 at 1:05 pm

           Hey dork, if you really think the communist regime isn't communist, you probably failed to graduate from kindergarten.
           • reason 1.2.1.2.1.1

             1 August 2019 at 5:08 pm

             I think you've reached your tipping point for stupidity….

             Governance by Corrupt, authoritarian, crony capitalist, oligarch creating rule …. Is about as communist as Peter Thiel

             Maybe our corruption enabling 'offshore banking' services … that the west provides to corrupt Chinese leaders / Govt officials … helping them move the loot out of china ,,,,, is communist too ?.

             Strange how 5 spy eyes never seems to see those sort of communications / transactions …. tricky bloody communists I suppose .

             
         • Peter Christchurh nz 1.2.1.2.2

           1 August 2019 at 1:50 pm

           Fake? Your abusive reply to Frank's post is ridiculous. For goodness sake, you are not one of those idiots who actually believe the China government is anything but evil are you?
           • reason 1.2.1.2.2.1

             1 August 2019 at 4:07 pm

             Communist …. they are not communist.

             Evil? …. which ones ? … or are they all evil?

             And what degree of evil? ….. as evil as some of the deeds of Crusaders ?

             As evil as the usa drenching vietnam in Dioxin / Agent orange …. Causing millions of cancers and birth defects, which are continuing to this very day.

             And for which the usa has never paid compensation … or helped decontaminate the poisoned areas .

             Guess which chemical company ( Dow), gave Obama very large donations…

             Cheaper than compensation for all the blinded, crippled, disabled infants born generations after the 'war' …. Evil you think ?.

             A dangerous Gangsters den that white-house ….5 mins .20secs .. Listen up for Dow among all the donations / bribes.
             • joe90 …

               1 August 2019 at 4:18 pm

               or helped decontaminate the poisoned areas .

               Do keep up.

               The United States just completed a five-year, $110 million program that cleaned soil contaminated by Agent Orange at Danang International Airport, which was one of the main air bases used for storing and spraying the herbicide between 1961 and 1971.

               But officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development, which is overseeing the project, said the Bien Hoa site will be four times larger than Danang, a massive undertaking that is expected to cost $390 million, according to a fact sheet distributed to reporters

               https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vietnam-usa-mattis/us-prepares-for-biggest-ever-agent-orange-cleanup-in-vietnam-idUSKCN1MR1U4
               • reason …

                 1 August 2019 at 6:44 pm

                 Thats very cheap for a war crime ….. Peanuts ……they should keep their political bribe program running ..

                 what percentage of sprayed / affected areas in vietnam …would the 5 x Danang International Airport represent ?. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/vietnam-agent-orange-monsanto-victims-compensation-a8508271.html

                 Between 1961 and 1971, the US military sprayed around 12 million gallons of the chemical substance on over 30,000 miles of southern Vietnam.

                 It seems to me the equivalent of a rapist buying his victim a rose as compensation …. Did they clean up Danag for the tourists peace of mind , ya reckon ?
                 • reason …

                   1 August 2019 at 6:53 pm
                   • reason …

                     1 August 2019 at 7:26 pm

                     Empty Promise of Compensation

                     In the 1973 Paris Peace Accords, the Nixon administration promised to contribute $3 billion for compensation and postwar reconstruction of Vietnam. That promise remains unfulfilled.

                     In 2004, both U.S. veteran and Vietnamese victims sued the chemical companies who knowingly manufactured Agent Orange and other herbicides, which they knew contained an unnecessary but lethal amount of dioxin. The victims were prevented from suing the U.S. government because of the doctrine of sovereign immunity.

                     I'm pretty sure the usa sprayed food crops to induce famine ….. touched upon 7 mins … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJxb7CY13uc&list=PL5A853E2965FF8C4E
         • Incognito 1.2.1.2.3

           1 August 2019 at 10:05 pm

           See my Moderation note @ 12:36 PM.
   • Graeme 1.3

     1 August 2019 at 10:07 am

     Could be getting a bit trickier across the Taiwan straits too

     https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49178314
2. A 2

   1 August 2019 at 7:48 am

   The third world of the East Coast, NZ.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/114367158/the-last-midwife-and-the-first-babies-born-in-the-world

   Corrina Parata is the sole midwife for the entire East Cape, driving around 4000 kilometres a month along rugged coastline to tend to families sometimes living without power or running water. Michelle Duff joined her to find out what life is like for the first babies born into the world.

   You couldn’t call it a house.

   It’s a tin shed, a garage at most. Inside, the floor is swept dirt. There’s a stove and a round table, and a mother standing at the bench holding her newborn child.

   Her top is unbuttoned. She’s just been breastfeeding. It’s four days since the birth, and she’s emotional. Outside, the world is rain-drenched paddocks and inside it’s dark and cold but the baby is wrapped up warmly, a woollen bundle of soft lips and perfect eyelids.
   • greywarshark 2.1

     1 August 2019 at 9:34 am

     John Key wanted NZ income and standards to drop and he has succeeded. Ordinary NZs were aiming to rise in social mobility and that should be stamped on. Low standards were what low income (and low-skilled people) deserve in the mind of his RW cohort, some them in Labour also.
   • reason 2.2

     1 August 2019 at 2:50 pm

     Such a beautiful part of the country … thats been blighted by needless cruelty derived from the ugly aspects of our Gods Own society.

     fuck the people .. fuck the people … fuck the people … If they are 'poor'

     "living in a tin shed" … n8v child was writing and singing about it.

     https://soundcloud.com/pete-dnanz/trak-5

     He's the last singer in this east coast youtube collaboration clip …. R.I.P
3. marty mars 3

   1 August 2019 at 7:51 am

   Some nice movement

   King Tūheitia announced he would go to Ihumātao on Saturday morning to listen, and help find a resolution.

   "The purpose of the visit is to listen to the people and seek a pathway for resolution," the statement said.

   "So that mana whenua of Ihumātao can engage in a process to have their issues fully resolved."

   The news was met by those at Ihumātao with surprise and happiness.

   Haki Wilson represents people who live at Ihumātao. He said the announcement was a massive deal.

   "We feel overwhelmed, we feel that his stance here is just the beginning for us to move at a pace where things might move a little bit faster," he said.

   "The Kiingitanga is us and I am amazed that the king is coming to the whenua and he can see and feel the wairua and the aroha that the whenua has to give.

   "We are totally amazed that he is coming to the whenua."

   and this

   Yesterday, Mr Wilson and protest leader Pania Newton met with Māori Development Nanaia Mahuta in Auckland.

   He said the meeting was run in a tīkanga Māori way and it went well, but no decisions had been made.

   "I am feeling real confident and good about today's hui with Nanaia.

   "We have been asking the government to meet with us for so long and now that has happened.

   "And we feel like they are starting to listen to us. It is a step forward."

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395701/king-tuheitia-to-visit-ihumatao-protest-site
   • A 3.1

     1 August 2019 at 8:10 am

     Awesome!
     • greywarshark 3.1.1

       1 August 2019 at 9:37 am

       Once Maori affirm that each case of land disputed will be treated on its specifics, and one is not a precedent for all others, movement will be facilitated I am sure. I hope that the King will be able to assist to find a suitable way through the present uncertainty.
4. vto 4

   1 August 2019 at 9:11 am

   Interest rates are very low and people wonder how low they can go…. but maths comes into this …. no matter how low they are interest rates can always be cut by 10% … and this is what I think will happen … 1.2% … 1.08% … 0.97% … 0.87% … and onwards … and while never able to reach zero, the impact on the economy of a 10% cut in the interest bill should always be effective

   so expect our ponzi scheme fractional reserve banking system to continue and capital values to rise and rentiers to get ever more stuck …

   the madness has a while to run yet
   • Pat 4.1

     1 August 2019 at 9:37 am

     "and while never able to reach zero, the impact on the economy of a 10% cut in the interest bill should always be effective"

     You may may wish to look at the attached

     31 July 2019 at 6:19 pm

     1 August 2019 at 12:39 am
     • vto 4.1.1

       1 August 2019 at 10:00 am

       Yes, thanks those things have been well published… but I think they could take a leaf out of the above logic book…

       … if the economy's interest bill is, say, $10billion p.a. and the RBNZ decides that needs to be lower to stimulate or to avert recession etc etc, then a 10% cut in the interest rate, no matter what the headline interest rate number is, is possible. To $9billion p.a.

       The headline interest rate could be 10% or it could be 1%, but if the result is $10 billion p.a. and they want that to drop to $9 billion, then such a cut will do it, no matter the headline number… i.e. drop it to 9% or 0.9%..

       maybe I should let them know this …
       • Pat 4.1.1.1

         1 August 2019 at 10:31 am

         Law of diminishing returns…..remember the whole ponzi scheme is based on confidence (trick)…to shift sentiment requires more than adjustment at the margins….a few basis points down aint gonna do it as post GFC has shown….mind you a few basis points increase does create panic.

         Growth is the basis and without ever increasing demand the whole scheme falls over, and negative interest rates (provided the cash issue can be controlled) force that continued growth (albeit temporary)…..the flaw I see in the reasoning is while theres increased incentive to 'invest' (in production, infrastructure) it removes the incentive to 'save'…..ultimately impacting the wherewithal to support that investment. It is however potentially highly redistributive.
5. Peter Christchurh nz 5

   1 August 2019 at 9:20 am

   Great to see that as of today, that vile blog Whaleoil is no more. It's even more vile creator, Slater, has for some time now effectively been no more. Guess there is justice sometimes in the world.
   • ianmac 5.1

     1 August 2019 at 9:33 am

     Yes Peter. Good job, but there will be another equally unpleasant blog to fill the void. Somewhere to vent I guess.
     • Peter Christchurch NZ 5.1.1

       1 August 2019 at 10:20 am

       Ianmac, yes sadly so, but lets hope with the name gone and the web address gone, that these vile people just fade into obscurity.
       • Sacha 5.1.1.1

         1 August 2019 at 11:52 am

         They have apparently moved their subscribers across to an identical blog with a different name and the same scum running it. Hope the official assignee kicks their arses.
6. greywarshark 6

   1 August 2019 at 9:43 am

   We were discussing the historic skill of European stonewall building yesterday. The cartoon in The Press this morning confirms how wide this European skill has spread – apparently Maggie Barry is demonstrating stonewalling in Parliament at present as a diversion from attending to the details of the wished-for euthanasia bill of choice for terminally people!
   • Wensleydale 6.1

     1 August 2019 at 3:36 pm

     But Maggie said it wasn't filibustering… it's just behaving in an unnecessarily obstructive manner. Which is the definition of filibustering. Ah, National. You never cease to disappoint.
7. Ad 7

   1 August 2019 at 9:50 am

   Whaleoil announces its finished.

   May The Standard ever rise.
   • vto 7.1

     1 August 2019 at 10:02 am

     karma was always going to pay a visit
     • Robert Guyton 7.1.1

       1 August 2019 at 10:06 am

       Fully flensed or just sounding?
     • Anne 7.1.2

       1 August 2019 at 10:16 am

       The thing in its place called the BFD Media NZ is going to be every bit as bad. The current trend is to bad mouth Jacinda Ardern for every move and utterance she makes. The part-time PM (PTPM for short) is clearly the meme her opponents plan to run with through to the next election. I mean, she's just spent six days up in the Tokolaus dancing and singing. She's running away you know. Every time there's a problem she runs away and hides. The most ghastly PM ever blah blah blah….

       Mind you, the obsessive knocking of Jacinda and persistently repeating the PTPM meme will eventually have an impact. It's a typical Crosby/Textor strategy and more often than not it eventually works.
       • Peter Christchurch NZ 7.1.2.1

         1 August 2019 at 10:23 am

         'BFD Media'. Hardly has the same ring to it as 'Whaleoil'. Very poor choice of title, wont help its success.
         • Anne 7.1.2.1.1

           1 August 2019 at 10:32 am

           They'll dream up a more feisty title in due course.

           Just up on Herald site – David Fisher and not behind a paywall this time:

           https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12254688

           Lying to the bitter end.
           • Peter Christchurch NZ 7.1.2.1.1.1

             1 August 2019 at 10:38 am

             Thanks for the link.

             'Shadowy forces conspired…'. Does that cretin or his even more cretinous Islamaphobic wife ever accept responsibility for their hate and mismanagement?
             • Sacha …

               1 August 2019 at 11:55 am

               Those who manage bankruptcies will need to do their job and hold some feet to the fire to enforce the accountibility never willingly accepted by these scum.
       • Marcus Morris 7.1.2.2

         1 August 2019 at 11:01 am

         Spot on Anne, and while you are talking Crosby/Textor, don't forget the homegrown weasel Sean Topham, "the digital whiz who worked at in the inner sanctum of the Liberals' campaign HQ in Brisbane" according to Audrey Young.

         Have also been disappointed with recent comment on "The Daily Blog" – positive criticism is welcome – otherwise keep your own counsel.
         • Shadrach 7.1.2.2.1

           1 August 2019 at 1:11 pm

           The fact that contributors such as Chris Trotter (at TDB) and Advantage (TS) are able to articulate their concerns about a Government that should be representing their side of politics is healthy. I remember the pile on some readers at WOBH gave to Cameron Slater for having a chip at the National Party. Despite CS's own motives for his attacks, he made some good points, but many of his readers just didn't get it.
           • Sacha 7.1.2.2.1.1

             1 August 2019 at 1:21 pm

             He was attacking a faction of the Nats who he believed did his daddy wrong. People aligned with other factions may have disliked his campaign, funnily enough.
             • Peter Christchurh nz …

               1 August 2019 at 1:55 pm

               And his daddy shall be forever remembered for one single thing only:

               Having sex on the board table with his mistress in the London High Commission.

               No wonder Cam Slater has issues.
               • Patricia …

                 1 August 2019 at 4:49 pm

                 Fairly sure that it was not John Slater at the London High Commission. The name John Collins comes to mind ?
             • Shadrach …

               1 August 2019 at 1:58 pm

               Yes but my point was that whatever his motive, his commentary still had some validity. A case in point – Michele Boag.
               • Sacha …

                 1 August 2019 at 2:16 pm

                 Boag is the head of the faction he hates.
                 • Shadrach …

                   1 August 2019 at 2:56 pm

                   Absolutely. And behind the hatred are some insights that are worth hearing.
               • lprent …

                 1 August 2019 at 4:15 pm

                 Not really – perhaps you should think on history. That was just personal.

                 Michele Boag was the person that kicked his daddy out of being the president of the National party back in 2001.

                 It was a bit of a pity as Michele Boag was remarkably effective at shifting National towards electoral competence… Took a while but happened eventually.
                 • Shadrach …

                   1 August 2019 at 4:27 pm

                   Sure it was personal. What I'm trying to say is that whatever the motive a person has, sometimes their commentary is still worthy of consideration. A lot of Cameron's commentary about the Nats was correct, IMHO, whatever his motivation.
       • greywarshark 7.1.2.3

         1 August 2019 at 11:55 am

         Slater was made to fit the words of Karma Chameleon, or vice versa.

         (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEj93paUdh4

         "I'm a man without conviction…You come and go, You come and go."
       • Fireblade 7.1.2.4

         1 August 2019 at 3:33 pm

         His new website is more interesting than the last one.

         https://www.bfd.co.nz
         Bethlehem Family Doctors
         Tauranga

         Is Slater a permanent resident there now?
8. Adrian Thornton 8

   1 August 2019 at 10:12 am

   Judging by yesterdays TVNZ's poll yesterday that have National at an unbelievable 45%, two point up on Labour, you would think that finally Ardern and Labour NZ would stop slavishly courting the centre and return to Labours traditional base for support..not even.

   But then to be fair, just like Blair, Clinton (1 and 2) Macron, Trudeau etc our own third way liberals are just as ruled in both thought and action by their own Liberal ideology as any Communist or Fascist, in fact that last point (IMO) has been one of the main (but not only) stumbling blocks for real and meaningful analysis of this failing ideology…simply put most pundits, commentators etc never acknowledge third way liberalism as a political ideology to begin with, it is always treated it as if it is some other force that just is and has always been and therefore never questioned, let alone critiqued or seriously analysed…just read into the Clinton campaign in 2016 to see this lack of scrutiny and understanding from both inside the campaign and from the media on the outside..a huge and dangerous blind spot which resulted in Trump, and this same lack of objective scrutiny of our failing Labour party is why NZ Labour could easily lose to Bridges next year.

   Fortunately the US have Sanders and Warren, the UK Corbyn, so at least they are in with a fighting chance to turn the tide, since we lost Helen Kelly, I am not sure where our battler will come from..any idea?

   Here is a piece from Truth dig today that is sort of in the same vein.

   Democrats Must Give Up ‘Center Is Better’ Myth

   https://www.truthdig.com/articles/words-to-the-unwise-democrats-must-give-up-center-is-better-myth/
   • Marcus Morris 8.1

     1 August 2019 at 11:23 am

     While I believe totally in the values that Jeremy Corban and Bernie Sanders espouse I don't think they will ever win an election principally because the weight and power of the Tory owned media is so heavily weighted against them – if you were around in the eighties you may recall that Neil Kinnock had a Labour victory snatched from him on the eve of the election by vicious headlines in the Tory owned "Red Tops'.

     The BBC, over the years, has done its best to be apolitical and yet the right are continually trying to call out a left wing bias. Rupert Murdoch would close it down tomorrow if he could. The same issues face the excellent ABC in Australia.

     Look at New Zealand's most widely read daily, The Herald, and try and find some balance there between right and left wing contributors.

     The financial resources of the Right are limitless. Remember the surge in funds that Labour got when Jacinda was made leader – hundreds contributed the small amounts they could afford. Steven Joyce crowed that as a response, three single National donors had easily eclipsed that amount.

     Labour's current government is certainly left of centre, maybe not as far as some would like (no publicly owned assets sold to date) and a genuine attempt to repair the awful damage done to New Zealand's infrastructure (at all levels) during nine years of Tory rule.

     We allow the Right to re-assume the control of treasury at our peril. Jacinda walks daily a minefield of hate and hypocrisy and she does so with great aplomb.
     • greywarshark 8.1.1

       1 August 2019 at 11:33 am

       Marcus M pretty right or do I mean left. Keep on trucking, and working on good ideas. Think of wily Sun Tzu quotes. When nothing intelligent and useful comes to mind and negativity takes over look at what some great man or woman who cared about being human (very important these days) thought.

       Sun Tzu/Quotes

       Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?

       The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

       All warfare is based on deception.

       Even if you don';t understand or agree with them, it takes your mind away from depression. https://www.brainyquote.com/lists/authors/top-10-sun-tzu-quotes

       And I note a caption under image of Cameron Slater from Anne’s link at 7 1 2 11?
       Former blogger Cameron Slater, who set up Whaleoil in 2005 to combat depression.

       He just managed to spread depression around along with his snide, negative thinking. Better stick with looking for great things and people to quote ie Sun Tzu and many in NZ. I like Sir Ernest Rutherford’s – We haven’t much money so we’ll have to think.
       • Sacha 8.1.1.1

         1 August 2019 at 11:58 am

         Slatter gave depression a bad name – another harm he has done to society.
     • Adrian Thornton 8.1.2

       1 August 2019 at 11:52 am

       Arden and NZ Labour are failing at the polls because they do not connect with workers the working poor, youth and the disenfranchised any longer, they offer no vision or big ideas, no direction or answers to those people, so why would or should they give a fuck about Labour?..just because they are a bit better than National? well we all saw how that battle plan worked out for the Dems and Clinton in 2016.

       When I went to our local hall here in the Hawkes Bay during the last election to hear Little/Ardern speak the hall was full of Orchard, vineyard and horticultural owners and managers and the usual middle class centrist lefties…but NO orchard, vineyard or horticultural workers..that right there speaks volumes, it point right to the heart of the reason why Labour could very well lose to a political disaster like Bridges, so don't blame the media, blame Labour and it's pathetic pragmatic austerity incrementism, it's complete lack of vision and message.
       • Sacha 8.1.2.1

         1 August 2019 at 11:59 am

         When you can get non-voters engaged enougn to make parties notice, they will.
         • Siobhan 8.1.2.1.1

           1 August 2019 at 12:18 pm

           Maybe I'm reading it wrong..but are you suggesting its up to the non voters to get engaged THEN Labour will notice them?

           How odd..surely its Labours job to reach out to the strugglers, even more so if Labour actually want to, you know, get enough votes to survive a second term.

           I can understand your argument to a certain degree, its one that Bernie floats in the US..the idea that voting him into the White House is not enough, is not the answer to achieving meaningful change, that there is a need for people to to be engaged with the struggle in any way they can, at a grassroots level in their own communities.

           But the point is..Bernie is a Political Leader, LEADING. Reaching out to those that have given up. That is pretty much the definition of a political leader, no matter what brand of politics they follow..
           • Sacha 8.1.2.1.1.1

             1 August 2019 at 12:28 pm

             I'm not saying it *should* be, just what the current situation is. Centrist parties have no clue how to engage more.
       • Marcus Morris 8.1.2.2

         1 August 2019 at 11:59 am

         Couldn't agree with you less. Those that the left have championed have rarely been part of the "fight". Most are not interested in politics even though they are being affected by them on a daily basis. It might sound slightly elitist but it has always been "middle class centrist left" which has carried the fight for them. What are your suggestions to "bridge the communication gap".
         • Adrian Thornton 8.1.2.2.1

           1 August 2019 at 12:27 pm

           Sorry don't want to be rude here, but that is complete bullshit and yes, as you quite rightly pointed out yourself….elitist.

           Think again
         • Siobhan 8.1.2.2.2

           1 August 2019 at 1:27 pm

           "middle class centrist left" which has carried the fight for them…you mean the likes of..

           Pat Kelly, Ken Douglas, Jim Anderton, John A Lee, Helen Kelly, Lynn Smart of the South Otago Locked‑Out Workers Group (eight years locked out of the Alliance Textiles factory in Milton), The Blackball Strikers, Sue Bradford…anyone in the 1913 Great Strike, Parihaka, 2006 Progressive Enterprises dispute……some of these people might end up middle class, arguably some become Centrist, but their background isn't what I would call middle class.
           • Professor Longhair 8.1.2.2.2.1

             1 August 2019 at 1:30 pm

             Wasting your time, Siobhan. The fellow doesn't have a clue.
             • Marcus Morris …

               1 August 2019 at 6:31 pm

               Wouldn't have the audacity to call myself professor but respectfully suggest that my view as valid as yours, whatever that might be.

               Goodness, certainly of some interesting reaction there. No not on any stimulant, just been around quite a long time and also an unwaivering Labour supporter. My knowledge of history may not warrant a lectureship but I have sufficient overview of it to understand where our movement has come from and who were the principal protagonists. Yes great Labour names mentioned above but all did not necessarily have a working class background, just a humanitarian concern for their fellow man – Jim Anderton a classic example – which I believe is the philosophy that underpins all socialist leaders and thinkers.

               It seems to me that the creation of the Welfare State, born out of awful social conditions, held the seeds of the demise of a Left-wing Labour Party. In the almost seventy years since nineteen fifty National has held power for all but twenty three of them and yet the fundamentals of the Welfare State have remained intact. It is true that National has done little but maintain the status quo and it, plus the Douglas regime, have done nothing to slow the gap between the haves and have nots increasing almost exponentially. Ruth Richardson’s “mother of all budgets” certainly did considerable damage.

               As to my other comments – I would suggest that an analysis of voting patterns in high socio-economic vis-a-vis those in lower socio-economic sections of society would show a far greater electoral engagement in the former, most of which would favour right and centre right political parties. In my opinion it is the former group, in whose interests the Labour tends to champion, that needs to be engaged. I don’t think that that is an elitist position.

               It is interesting to recall that David Lange, who came from a distinctly middle class background and had a genuine empathy with the underdog, had huge appeal across the social spectrum but then he had a great wit. Tragically he lead a government which led directly to current social issues.
           • greywarshark 8.1.2.2.2.2

             1 August 2019 at 6:53 pm

             Siobhan Thanks for the info of Alliance lockout in Milton, I tried to raise something on google about it at one time and couldn't find. I knew it was a long lockout but 8 years? (For myself I saw that as one of the signs of the middle-classness of feminism, not much support ito that sisterhood in Milton. )
         • Professor Longhair 8.1.2.2.3

           1 August 2019 at 1:29 pm

           Most are not interested in politics even though they are being affected by them on a daily basis.

           ????? What a bizarre, fatuous, ignorant statement.

           It might sound slightly elitist but it has always been "middle class centrist left" which has carried the fight for them.

           ?????

           Whatever this twit is smoking, I do not want any of it. That's one drug that SHOULD be banned.
       • Rosemary McDonald 8.1.2.3

         1 August 2019 at 12:31 pm

         Labour could very well lose to a political disaster like Bridges,

         What this incarnation of Labour needs to take on board is that for a couple of decades or so the two major parties have been virtually indistinguishable…especially to those who are working their arses off to keep hearth and home together. And to those who have lost that fight. When there's a brief respite in the daily toil enough to take a quick look at what is coming out of The Beehive it is very much SSDD.

         This government needs to distinguish itself. It needs to be boldly different from those we have been screwed by for the last thirty years. Ardern needs to think carefully about going down the same path as Key…does she want to actually lead, or is she content to primp for the cameras? Her being featured on the cover of Vogue will maintain her fan base but will fail to garner the extra votes needed to hold the government benches.
     • Wayne 8.1.3

       1 August 2019 at 4:05 pm

       What is this awful damage to New Zealand infrastructure that you are talking about?

       Major motorways, the CRL in Auckland, massive rebuilding in Christchurch, lots of new schools, way more houses, more operations than Labour can manage, first real increase in basic benefit rates for 20 years

       Way too many on the left are guilty of gross exaggeration of the years 2008 to 2017. Basically New Zealand did pretty well, especially after the GFC. Not perfect, but pretty good. It is not as if there has been much change in the last two years in most indicators. In fact some are worse.
       • Dukeofurl 8.1.3.1

         1 August 2019 at 5:45 pm

         You are believing the bumpf , when the housing figures show under national for 7-8 years failed to even reach the yearly housing numbers under Clark.

         Without the Cuillen Fund , Bill English borrowing binge going from $20 bill to over $80 bill in 8 years, would have panicked the ratings agencies , Cullen Fund balance of nearly $40 bill made it possible.
         • Marcus Morris 8.1.3.1.1

           1 August 2019 at 6:38 pm

           Thanks Duke. No need for me to repeat all of that but could also add the sale of state assets (yes, to my eternal chagrin Douglas and Prebble were also guilty of that) and, to go back a generation, Muldoon's disastrous Super scheme but Tories such as Wayne will never admit to this. As the Professor would say – their likes just don't get it. We are wasting our time.
       • Stuart Munro. 8.1.3.2

         1 August 2019 at 6:32 pm

         Don't get out much do you Wayne? The period of the Key Kleptocracy was no garden of sweets for working people. The Gnats made out like bandits though.
9. adam 9

   1 August 2019 at 12:20 pm

   God Bless Rammstein – Breaking the law in Russia!!

   
   
   
10. Professor Longhair 10

    1 August 2019 at 1:24 pm

    Pathetic Albion

    While hysteria raged about possible Russian “interference” in the 2016 US election, British intelligence officials were secretly playing a “key role” in helping instigate investigations into Donald Trump, secret texts have shown.

    “Turns out it was Britain that was the foreign country interfering in American affairs,” former MP George Galloway told RT, speaking about the new revelations published by the Guardian about early British involvement in the ‘Russiagate’ investigation.

    The Guardian reported on texts between former deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe and Jeremy Fleming, his then counterpart at MI5, who now heads GCHQ. The two men met in 2016 to discuss “our strange situation” – an apparent reference to Russia’s alleged interference in US domestic politics.

    British intelligence “appears to have played a key role in the early stages,” the report said.

    Asked what the UK stood to gain by trying to implicate Russia in a US election scandal at a time when then-foreign secretary Boris Johnson was dismissing baseless claims of Russian interference in the Brexit campaign, Galloway noted that Johnson’s comments on Russia have appeared to strangely sway between friendly and antagonistic.

    Johnson is like “a sofa that bears the impression of the last person to sit upon him,” the former MP quipped. What happens next will depend on who is leading the tango, “the orange man in Washington or the blonde mop-head in London.”

    Read more….

    https://www.rt.com/uk/465510-galloway-uk-intelligence-russiagate/
    • francesca 10.1

      1 August 2019 at 2:16 pm

      Also of interest Professor

      A US federal judge kicks out the case the DNC tried to bring against Assange and Wikileaks

      He declared Assange to be a publisher, Wikileaks a news organisation,and the DNC's arguments "threadbare"

      "Judge Koeltl said the DNC’s argument that Assange and WikiLeaks “conspired with the Russian Federation to steal and disseminate the DNC’s materials” is “entirely divorced from the facts.” The judge further ruled that the court “is not required to accept conclusory allegations asserted as facts.”"

      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/07/31/assa-j31.html
      • joe90 10.1.1

        1 August 2019 at 3:20 pm

        The Judge also said:

        The primary wrongdoer in this alleged criminal enterprise is undoubtably the Russian Federation, the first named defendant in the case and the entity that surreptitiously and illegally hacked into the DNC’s computers and thereafter disseminated the results of its theft,

        https://www.courthousenews.com/dnc-loses-racketeering-suit-over-2016-election-hack/
        • Francesca 10.1.1.1

          1 August 2019 at 4:33 pm

          So what ?

          I posted about Assange

          And that's what the included quote was about

          Nice try at diversion but no cigar
          • joe90 10.1.1.1.1

            1 August 2019 at 4:58 pm

            Well I guess now that he's off the hook, Assange can proceed to Sweden and answer for his alleged rapes.

            btw, this is your man

            As reported by Progress New York and other news outlets, Judge John Koeltl has established a career that is fraught with conflicts of interest and accusations of judicial bias. Judge Koeltl has faced accusations of using extremism against activists and making prejudicial statements that are disqualifiable. Judge Koeltl arguably sent the now late activist attorney, Lynne Stewart, to an early grave after the judge increased her prison sentence at his sole discretion following an unusual request made by the Government. Judge Koeltl has also faced public criticism over showing bias to one party over another. Recently, Judge Koeltl was assigned to preside over the Democratic National Committee‘s frivolous lawsuit against WikiLeaks, and others, alleging collusion with the Russian Federation to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election (frivolous, because the DNC rigged the primaries against Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT). Judge Koeltl also teaches at New York University, the notorious engine that produces élitism, gentrification, and displacement. Judge Koeltl has also, in the past, recused himself from cases where conflicts of interest were obvious, but he has only done so temporarily. His entire approach to professional ethics is situational.

            https://www.progressnewyork.news/2018/12/23/to-restore-public-confidence-in-the-u-s-district-court-for-s-d-n-y-judge-john-koeltl-must-resign/
            • francesca 10.1.1.1.1.1

              1 August 2019 at 6:10 pm

              You're a bit behind the 8ball Joe.

              All that selective googling

              After the Swedish prosecutors were knocked back in their detention request, they were told that they could instead question Assange in the UK via a European investigation order.

              From NPR

              "On Monday the judge said that in order to finish the investigation, the prosecutors could issue a European Investigation Order, which would make it possible for them to interview Assange and conclude the inquiry"

              Perrson said she would continue with the investigation

              "Persson said her next move will be to request a European investigation order — a step she expects to take sometime this month. "

              That was early June

              7 years and counting to wind up an investigation, its a long time to drool Joe

              You'll be all dried up
              • greywarshark …

                1 August 2019 at 6:16 pm

                Thanks for the info Fransesca I was wondering about it.
        • Morrissey 10.1.1.2

          1 August 2019 at 4:38 pm

          Thanks for that, Joe. Did the judge or anyone else provide any evidence that the masterminds and arch-puppeteers of the Russian Federation "surreptitiously and illegally hacked into the DNC’s computers and thereafter disseminated the results of its theft"?
      • ianmac 10.1.2

        1 August 2019 at 3:34 pm

        Will the dismissal of the Civil case have an effect on the Federal case against Assange?
        • Andre 10.1.2.1

          1 August 2019 at 4:05 pm

          I'd guess it's unlikely.

          The federal case against Assange is for his work with Manning. It's an unrelated case, and the allegation is that Assange's activities in encouraging Manning to get more materials using someone else's login and offering to crack a password took Assange over the line into being a participant in the illegal unauthorised access, as distinct from just being a publisher.

          https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-charged-18-count-superseding-indictment
          • ianmac 10.1.2.1.1

            1 August 2019 at 4:29 pm

            Oh. Pity.
            • McFlock 10.1.2.1.1.1

              1 August 2019 at 5:09 pm

              snap.
11. One Two 11

    1 August 2019 at 2:11 pm

    Unauthorized: 'Do not resuscitate' orders

    The head of Florida’s Department of Elder Affairs announced “immediate” changes to improve the agency’s response times for complaints in the wake of revelations that an Orlando-based professional guardian had filed unauthorized “do not resuscitate" orders on the behalf of numerous incapacitated clients.
12. MickeyBoyle 12

    1 August 2019 at 6:24 pm

    Expect this government to get a large backlash from those in the deep south with this new polytechnic announcement. I regularly visit Invercargill and I dont think Hipkins and co realise just how much S.I.T means to the people down there. Will be interesting.
    • ianmac 12.1

      1 August 2019 at 7:15 pm

      SIT are being agitated by local National MPs. And that was before the proposals had been published. (Today.) Not enough known yet but when you remember the dictatorial manner of changes demanded by National and the clobbering of people who disagreed, then this seems like a genuine cooperative democratic plan.

      And nothing will actually change for at least 18 months so hard to accept the Southern rage.
      • MickeyBoyle 12.1.1

        1 August 2019 at 7:37 pm

        Of course the local MPs are stirring things up and fighting for their local institutions. But I dont think you understand how deeply southerners feel about the S.I.T. which is partially locally funded and frankly has put life back into Invercargill. It has been a blessing and is extremely successful.
        • MickeyBoyle 12.1.1.1

          1 August 2019 at 10:58 pm

          https://i.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/114671266/southern-institute-of-technology-to-be-merged-into-national-institute

          And so it begins. I wonder how our resident Southlander Mr Guyton feels about this?
    • millsy 12.2

      2 August 2019 at 12:21 am

      SIT need to accept that tertiary education will return back to being a public service delivered for the public good, and will no longer be a tradable commodity. SIT will survive, but it will look different, with it's focus on training Southlanders and not chasing international students. It will be a public sector institution run for the public good.
    • Gabby 12.3

      2 August 2019 at 1:01 am

      Labour has written off Southland. They don't give a shit.
    • Molly 12.4

      2 August 2019 at 9:58 am

      My children – and others – have used Manukau polytechnic for courses. With spotty results. A few years ago, the MIT advisor Stuart Middleton received kudos for his work with the institute. Particularly, with NEET objectives in mind (because – you know – MIT is located in South Auckland.) He was particularly enamoured with the NZQF system, and both enrolments and retentions went up at MIT in these courses.

      However, there are a couple of relevant facts that need to be mentioned in this. One, at this time, our National led government made it a requirement for many benefits that you were in some type of training – many students were there, and remained, because their income was dependent on them doing so. Secondly, I had children enrolled in a couple of these courses, and both the preparation and delivery by MIT was pitiful. Anyone sane would have any educational aspiration suffocated by attendance.

      There are many good pathways that can be strengthened to future ongoing engagement for students, and I would like to see a comprehensive restructuring take place. Eliminating the need for beneficiaries to attend courses just because they need to in order to receive a benefit would be a good start. Imagine a cohort of reluctant, resentful or uninterested students and then consider the negative impact this has on other students, the teacher and the delivery of the course. Add to this the fact that the completion of the course most likely did not get them any closer to employment or provide a pathway to further education, and you get a notion of how relying on the NEET outcomes can further erode wellbeing and meaningful engagement.

      Regarding the approach to trades, there was an Auckland Conversation many years ago about the Swiss system. Worth the watch, with Australian David Turner speaking about how it works.

      However, also to be kept in mind is the changing nature of the work environment. Whatever is done, we should not restructure our education systems to meet past and current work requirements. These institutions need to be looking ahead.
13. mosa 13

    1 August 2019 at 6:47 pm

    When are we going to demand that National MPs are held accountable under the laws of this country.
    Sarah Dowie incited someone to commit suicide , that is illegal but no police prosecution.
    One law for National and its friends and the other applied to everyone else.
    It has become obvious that the New Zealand Police are completely compromised when it come too enforcing the law where the National party and its MPs are concerned.
    The smell of rotten corruption is in the air but no one has noticed.
    Giving this story 15 seconds of airtime on One News is an indictment to the abuse of justice.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-law-means-nothing-as-usual.html

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/137.0/DLM329347.html
    • Sacha 13.1

      1 August 2019 at 8:14 pm

      To be fair, there is a difference in law as in daily life between saying someone deserves to die and instructing them hard/repeatedly enough to count as incitement.

      This recent US case offers a comparison: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/massachusetts-high-court-upholds-michelle-carter-s-conviction-texts-encouraging-n968291

      “In sum, our common law provides sufficient notice that a person might be charged with involuntary manslaughter for reckless or wanton conduct, causing a victim to commit suicide. The law is not unconstitutionally vague as applied to the defendant’s conduct,” the court said.
14. Eco maori 14

    2 August 2019 at 7:50 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    I Don't like Queining my skills are wasted + it gives the sandflys a opportunity to throw heaps of Actors at me

    The stabilizing of the Auckland housing market is great it has happened before and the same effect other cities housing prices rise.

    Social Media Is holding the police to account for their actions social media is holding the ruling class to account for their devious actions like the #meto campaign and many others this is the GAME CHANGER that the 99.9 % of tangata needs to sort out the bullshit lieing data the ruling class push on us with their hundreds of billions of dollars Michael Obama's science adviser put the internet as the biggest change to the Papatuanuku society since the industrial revolution.

    Christina 5G technologies will help boost Aotearoa economy ka pai Vodafone awesome while Spark is fluffing around you will get the jump on them.

    judy you like having a Wahine who is lifting Wahine Mana Papatuanuku wide Jacinda.

    Willy you are correct we have to support and respect our Pacific Island Cousin. I agree tangata whenua has been let down by previous government is that oppression or what heaps of whanau struggling with no housing no good health system bad roads ect

    Mark you think to much of yourself.?????

    Ka kite ano P.S Eco Maori wonders if The Warehouse Rotorua wants to test my Influencing as they are behaving badly
15. Eco maori 15

    2 August 2019 at 8:01 am

    Rick Hoffman I was watching Suites TV show a few years ago when it first started I quite enjoyed your caracter and the other cast my life is too busy now to watch the Show. Ka kite ano
16. Eco maori 16

    2 August 2019 at 2:11 pm

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/xTlNMmZKwpA

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