Open mike 01/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 1st, 2011 - 106 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

106 comments on “Open mike 01/12/2011 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. RobM 1
    1 December 2011 at 6:27 am

    Lessons from Europe:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,druck-799237,00.html

    “Sometime after 2008,” says Habermas over a glass of white wine after the debate, “I understood that the process of expansion, integration and democratization doesn’t automatically move forward of its own accord, that it’s reversible, that for the first time in the history of the EU, we are actually experiencing a dismantling of democracy. I didn’t think this was possible. We’ve reached a crossroads.”

    It also has to be said: For being Germany’s most important philosopher, he is a mind-bogglingly patient man. He is initially delighted that he has managed at last to find a journalist whom he can tell just how much he abhors the way certain media ingratiate themselves with Merkel — how he detests this opportunist pact with power. But then he graciously praises the media for finally waking up last year and treating Europe in a manner that clearly demonstrates the extent of the problem.

    “The political elite have actually no interest in explaining to the people that important decisions are made in Strasbourg; they are only afraid of losing their own power,”

  2. Carol 2
    1 December 2011 at 7:12 am

    i’m curious about this bit in Gordon Campbell’s comment on the Maori Party’s impending confidence and supply deal with National:

    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2011/11/30/on-david-shearer-and-the-maori-party/

    What the Maori Party negotiators seem to be angling for is a confidence and supply agreement with the government that treats asset sales as not being a confidence and supply issue, for them anyway. Oh, but isn’t that against the law? No problem, they’ll just change the law. Thus, Prime Minister John Key has signalled that he will do the necessary changes to the SOE Act to allow that exception to be made.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2011/92421/government-deals-%27likely-before-end-of-week%27

    Mr Key says the National Party’s asset sales plan, which the Maori Party opposes, could be set aside from any deal.

    “There’s no particular reason why the mixed ownership model would have to be part of confidence and supply. We know that the SOE (state-owned enterprises) Act would need to be altered but that doesn’t necessarily have to be part of a confidence motion.”

    What is the bit that needs changing? Sounds like another undemocratic outrage by Key’s National government!

    • Tiger Mountain 2.1
      1 December 2011 at 7:18 am

      Gordon has relooked at it and I/Savant replied in comments section….

      “Its not against the law. Selling an SOE requires aending the SOE Act, but amending legislation is not the same thing as confidence and supply.
      So, the Maori Party are doing something we don’t like, and may eventually be judged by their voters to be quislings, but they’re not doing violence to our constitution in the process. National is quite capable of doing that all by itself.”

      And Gordon replied….

      “@I/S
      Thanks for correcting me on that point.I over-egged it. As you say, the amending of the SOE Act doesn’t have constitutional implications.”

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    1 December 2011 at 7:13 am

    Is it really necessary to parade Labour politicians interested in the leadership role together on TV less than a week after the general election? I was almost expecting someone to be “sent home” on the paid text in results.

    • Uturn 3.1
      1 December 2011 at 7:37 am

      Don’t look. I’ve taken to covering my eyes and singing la la la la la.

    • Half Crown Millionare 3.2
      1 December 2011 at 10:27 am

      I posted this on the Open mike 30/11/11

      “I have just seen the “candidates” for the new leader of the Labour party on Close up with Sainsbury. What the hell is the Labour party playing at? They are all bearing their souls with Cuniliff confessing to his short comings. Lovely. Labour should have told Sainbury and TV1 go and get f@#$ked, you, the country and National will find out about our new leader when we come charging out in our new tank and start smashing down the walls of Nationals very vulnerable fortress. They should also tell Sainbury to do some in depth reporting on Key’s team and I suggest Jerry Brownarse Minister of Disasters would be a very good candidate to start with.”

      The only other comment I like to add is this. They are playing into the hands of the right, who no doubt have noted perceived weaknesses, ready to be primed and fired back at Labour before Labour has had a chance to get going again. To countermand any of these moves, and good for the country I really would like someone to invite the likes of Pilger to do a good bit of investigative journalism on Keys involvement with Bankers Trust and his so called “trading” at Merrill Lynch.

  4. logie97 4
    1 December 2011 at 7:40 am

    At last, all’s well with the world?
    The trading floors are buoyed. O joy.
    http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/emergency-move-ignites-stock-markets-4583814

    When are we going to have a “human” story of things getting better?
    Sick of reading of bankers, stock brokers and self-serving currency traders as being the measure.

    • Carol 4.1
      1 December 2011 at 7:47 am

      Seen recently on Twitter:

      Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank: give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

    • AAMC 4.2
      1 December 2011 at 12:00 pm

      Our media is incompetent, but we know that. Also the markets are incompetent, we know that too. Central Banks finally take some limited action, no systemic issues solved, markets respond cause they’re fantasists.

      Rounini on twitter;
      CBs swaps action due to huge $ shortage & liq squeeze in fin mkts due to EZ crisis. CBs preparing for worst but markets took it as positve

      And Krugman;
      “So this looks to me like a non-event. Yet markets went wild. Are they taking this as a signal that substantive actions — like the ECB finally doing what has to be done — are just around the corner? Are they misunderstanding the policy? Was this cheap talk that nonetheless moved us to the good equilibrium? (If so, not enough: Italian bonds still at more than 7 percent).

      A very strange day.”

  5. just saying 5
    1 December 2011 at 7:54 am

    Love it 😀
    Will be passing it on.

  6. dv 6
    1 December 2011 at 8:31 am

    Ministers not fronting.
    Wilkinson did not return calls from Morning Report re Huntly mine issue.

    AND
    Prediction (by economic research unit?) that we will not be in surplus until 2016?.
    Is that a broken promise?

    • rosy 6.1
      1 December 2011 at 8:46 am

      Huntly mine gas, non-notified mining consents, meat workers lockout, economic reports plus the the NZQA debacle and and the employers report in the NBR – what else was kept hidden in the last weeks of the election campaign?

    • Uturn 6.2
      1 December 2011 at 8:46 am

      “Yes well actually what I’m saying is you have to understand the current global financial climate is dinnamic…”

    • dv 6.3
      1 December 2011 at 9:13 am

      >>Ministers not fronting.
      >>Wilkinson did not return calls from Morning Report re Huntly mine issue.
      And not returning calls to nine to noon.

      • Colonial Viper 6.3.1
        1 December 2011 at 9:28 am

        The MSM is complicit in all of this. If this was the 5th labour Govt the MSM would be up in arms about “attacks on democracy” and “arrogance” in not turning up for media questioning.

        Fuck them, they’ve helped to fuck this country.

        • AAMC 6.3.1.1
          1 December 2011 at 12:09 pm

          And I had hoped as i stated in my e-mail to Wilkinson yesterday that the honeymoon with the media would be over now we were into the second term, but then they installed all their mates as CEO’s didn’t they.

          So, step up citizen journalists, now more than ever it’s important to get all those you know onto twitter and if you must, Facebook, and then WE must disseminate tis information farther and wider than the confines of preaching to the converted in the blogosphere…

          • freedom 6.3.1.1.1
            1 December 2011 at 12:36 pm

            i utilised FB heavily during the campaign and all i can say is be prepared that many people object to you bringing reality into their woman’s weekly world. The common call …
            “if you want to post that, set up a group and those that want to read it can go there ! ”

            I feel this only adds to the mass ‘separation from involvement’ that has been incrementaly manipulated within society over the past century. This highlights the imperative of continuing with public disseminaton of information, for once you are over that hump you see the responsive attention the information deserves. By the end of the campaign the negative feedback had effectively dissapeared and the overall commentry was one of openly expressed anger, doubt and disbelief at the incongruous nature of the FB information and the MSM’s versions of it. The important bit being the various topics were being discussed openly.

            There were a couple of days where the interconnected lives on FB became a host of micro-blogs

            This is how i always viewed FB anyway but for many they had never done more than one or two comments in reply to a post. For example, one public dialogue that was discussing the debt lasted about three hours and ended up with over a hundred comments,

            People want to talk about the issues, they want to feel their voice matters and as patronizing as it sounds, they simply need the same gentle encouragement that you would give a toddler in front of an escalator

            • AAMC 6.3.1.1.1.1
              1 December 2011 at 12:57 pm

              I’ve seen an increasing dialogue with/from young creatives, and it seems to have increased since the election. Rather than throwing the hands up I’m defeat they seem to be redoubling. I’d say the use I twitter in particular will
              Increasingly be a platform during the coming term. It’s a way you can put it out there, succinctly, people can I follow you if they want, but they can also click through to the article you’re referencing, perhaps just ingest the headline or retweet to their network. It’s exponential and could be a very powerful means of getting real info out there I’m spite of a useless MSM. And the more we encourage it theore we undermine their power.

              • freedom …
                1 December 2011 at 1:46 pm

                Article linking is by far the most common and simplest method being employed by citizen media. Often you receive and share articles from organisations/publications/sites you have never heard of and they are only doing the same themselves. As this is a practise ripe for dis-info and disaster, I offer this suggestion. Try to vet a few sources as carefully as you are able and rely on others’ criticism of your article or the links you shared. Not unlike a postcard from an ex or the early morning phone call from a friend, a few careful words can completely revolutionise the focus of the day.

                This not only invites over the long-lost brother of the fourth estate, critical thinking, it also helps form a whole neighborhood of people ready with new questions and ideas. None are infallable, but consensus can be a healthy alternative to a sub-editor paid for by the MSM.

                who says revolution can’t be fun

                • AAMC …
                  1 December 2011 at 4:12 pm

                  Yes, agreed, there is a serious risk of dodgy articles and sources, but none so dodgy as a man from ASB or Westpac coming onto the news to tell me about the economy. I like Porject Syndicate for example, a resource of serious thinkers, from various persuasions. And the economists who picked the GFC before it happened rather than those still protecting the idea that created it.
                  The reason I endorse Twitter for this is that your friends can choose with encouragement to follow you or they can choose not to, others stumble across you etc. Facebook however can result in you being seen as a soapbox preacher to your great aunt or right wing brother in law…

                  • freedom …
                    1 December 2011 at 7:32 pm

                    I barely use twitter but do plan to look into it more. I am aware it is good for sharing links and cracking lines. It is excellent, as the world discovered, for instant communication and co-ordination of large masses. I do like the discovery nature of the twitter world, FB is leaning that way, also and Google+ has its own interpratations. I have only skirted by Google+ but it does have some useful features for the future of citizen media. Personally, the benefit to FB over twitter though is the length of passage for a posting, especially after the primary post where there is effectively no limit. Also you can use pics and vids to illustrate information.

                    Regarding the shadow over the soapbox,?
                    Sooner or later, those that would, simply tune out. No matter what you do or say, they go.B?000000000000000wm! ??Cj6+7ٌg?dmickysavagemichaelsavagepm@gmail.e. Even as a joke, i am suprised certain friends have not given me a sandwich board with the ubiquitous ‘ End is Nigh’. They won’t do that because they know i am not wrong in asking them to be more vigilant of the world around them. I have certainly got some scars from friends and family and have had to say goodbye to more people than i would have liked but I will welcome back each and every one when they accept they have no more right than another to this world. I don’t delete people. By the way, I have never been de-friended on FB, so it can’t be all bad.

                    Everyday, every single day, we see people around us who are showing real achievement with their baseline ability to question the messages around them.
                    When you boil it down, that is all you can ask of anyone.

            • Ianupnorth 6.3.1.1.1.2
              1 December 2011 at 2:23 pm

              @ Freedom – Agree, had more than a fare share of ‘we all know your view, stop posting all this political stuff’ – makes me think people are really afraid of the truth.

        • insider 6.3.1.2
          1 December 2011 at 2:20 pm

          firstly the media have no right to demand the presence of any minister. THey are quite reasonably pointing out the ministers’ refusal to respond – what else can they do? I don’t get to vote for Mary Wilson.

          Labour need to keep pushing the issue and make refusing to front an attribute voters link with national. Every time a LAbour spokesman gets an interview they need to say something like “once again the minister is hiding out, refusing to front”. it will soon become worrying for the Nats.

  7. David 7
    1 December 2011 at 9:28 am

    Rosy don’t forget that John Key is conspiring with bankers to ruin the world and make himself richer.

    Oh and that he is also conspiring with Hitler and the KKK to crush minorities

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      1 December 2011 at 9:34 am

      Oh I see what you did there.

      One small problem: Key is definitely NOT a racist. However Key IS definitely part of the investment banking-governmental cartel.

    • rosy 7.2
      1 December 2011 at 9:57 am

      Let me see…. nah David, I didn’t say any of that. I asked what other newsworthy bits of bad news were hidden in the run-up to the election.

  8. Afewknowthetruth 8
    1 December 2011 at 9:35 am

    When I checked what was happening around the world my first response was WTF!!?? Dow up 3.4%!!??

    However, the explanation soon emerged. With signs of implosion almost everywhere the central bankers had to come up with some new financial chicanery (this time ‘liquidity swaps’) to prevent an immediate collapse: ‘Fears of more financial turmoil in Europe have already left some European banks dependent on central bank loans to fund their daily operations. Other banks are wary of lending to them for fear of not getting paid back.’

    This move should allow TPTB to kick the can down road until after Christmas while doing nothing to address any of the fundamental causes of the mess.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/worlds-centralbanksact-to-ease-market-strains-6269981.html

    Major central banks around the globe took coordinated action today to ease the strains on the world’s financial system, saying they would make it easier for banks to get dollars if they need them. Stock markets and the euro rose sharply on the move.

    The Bank of England, US Federal Reserve, European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Japan and Switzerland were all taking part.

    “The purpose of these actions is to ease strains in financial markets and thereby mitigate the effects of such strains on the supply of credit to households and businesses and so help foster economic activity,” the central banks said in a joint statement.

    The announcement came just hours after China reduced bank reserve levels today to release money for lending and help shore up slowing growth. It was the first easing of Chinese monetary policy in three years — and higher growth in China could be crucial for a suffering global economy.

    Stocks surged following the news. The Dow Jones industrial average jumped more than 400 points in early trading and was up 392 an hour after the opening bell. Germany’s DAX was trading 4.7 per cent higher, France’s CAC was up 4.1 per cent, the euro rose 1.1 per cent to $1.3463 and oil was up $1.45 to $101.25.

    As Europe’s debt crisis has spread, the global financial system is showing signs of entering another credit crunch like the one that followed the 2008 collapse of US investment bank Lehman Brothers. Banks are afraid to lend to each other, since no one is really sure what institutions are holding how much bad government debt.

    Greece, Ireland and Portugal have all been forced to take international bailouts, and Italy, Spain and Belgium are seeing their borrowing costs rise sharply. Banks already had to agree to forgive 50 per cent of the value of their Greek debt holdings — and many fear that other struggling European countries might also demand a so-called “haircut” on bonds.

    A ratings downgrade by Standard & Poors for six major US banks yesterday added to fears that Europe’s woes would hurt the entire financial system. If one or more European governments default, that would unleash a shock to the world’s financial system that at the very least would lead to recessions in the United States and Europe, severe losses for banks and a global stranglehold on lending.

    The central banks agreed to reduce the cost of temporary dollar loans they offer to banks — called liquidity swaps — by a half percentage point. The new, lower rate will be applied to all central bank operations starting on Monday.

    The cut means that the charge will fall to 50 basis points — or one-half percentage point — over an international benchmark, the overnight index swap rate, which is averaging around seven to 10 basis points currently.

    Non-US banks need dollars to fund their US operations and to make dollar loans to companies that need the US currency. The dollar is the world’s leading currency for central bank reserves and is widely used in international trade.

    The announcement also extended the length of time the temporary dollar lines will be available by six months to February 1, 2013. The swap line programme had been scheduled to end August 1, 2013.

    According to Federal Reserve figures, $2.4 billion in swap lines were being used as of last week. By comparison, at the height of the 2008 financial crisis, $580 billion was provided in temporary swap lines in December of that year.

    The central banks are also taking steps to ensure that banks can get ready money in any of their currencies if market conditions warrant by establishing a temporary network of reciprocal swap lines.

    Right now there is no need to offer non-domestic credits in currencies other than the dollar, the central banks said, but they “judge it prudent” to get such an arrangement in place ahead of time.

    Fears of more financial turmoil in Europe have already left some European banks dependent on central bank loans to fund their daily operations. Other banks are wary of lending to them for fear of not getting paid back. Such constraints on interbank lending can hurt the wider economy by making less money available to lend to businesses.

    • Lanthanide 8.1
      1 December 2011 at 9:54 am

      You repeatedly underestimate just how many kicks that can has got left in it.

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.1
        1 December 2011 at 10:33 am

        A bit more. They are good at pretending and extending, that’s for sure.

        • AAMC 8.1.1.1
          1 December 2011 at 12:21 pm

          Irony being, the Euro strengthened on the news when it needs to weaken real stubs to dollar in order to be competitive and underpin growth. Oil strengthening to recession inducing levels..

          They need to forgive private debt in order to restart economies, and get over the fixation on public debt. The govt’s can’t pay down debt while Austerity is destroying demand within their economies. Yeah they can keep kicking the can and saving their banking mates, but each kick further entrenches the systemic issues which will eventually bring the whole thing down without some new thinking.

          And then of coarse that’s with the desire to re-establish growth and the status quo, which doesn’t take into account the real issue, the destruction of the environment as a byproduct of BAU.

          Can’t we all look at how Austerity has totally undermined the British economy and start putting these morons out to pasture. Tory’s in UK can’t acknowledge their failure, cause to do so would be to admit they are wrong and undermine their mandate. And we blindly follow.

          But the good news 2 million strike in UK, Obama is getting dinner guests tonight in NY courtesy of OWS.

          • Ianupnorth 8.1.1.1.1
            1 December 2011 at 2:26 pm

            The funny thing is now the UK, after all its austerity and trickle down, is now realising it would be better to borrow whilst their interest rates are low and create jobs, build infrastructure, etc – exactly what Labour wanted to do there and National opposed.

          • Gosman 8.1.1.1.2
            1 December 2011 at 3:42 pm

            Ummmm… considering the crisis in Europe is mainly Soverign Debt how will they go about borrowing more if noone is willing to lend them the money you think they should borrow? Why would I as an investor, (who you have already stiffed by forcing me to take large losses on my lending), be happy to give my money to a Government that seems to have no interest in living within their means?

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.2.1
              1 December 2011 at 3:47 pm

              Please get it into your head. There is not enough money IN THE WHOLE WORLD to counter exponentially increasing interest charges on debt.

              So far they’ve been delaying the inevitable by PRINTING MONEY through the CREATION of even more interest bearing debt.

              We can see how this is all going to end.

            • AAMC 8.1.1.1.2.2
              1 December 2011 at 4:08 pm

              “Governments are now following strategies that defy the most basic principles of sound fiscal management – it is irresponsible to cut net public spending at at time when unemployment is rising. Or in other words, you don’t send more workers into the mine when the canaries start dying.

              From a functional finance perspective, budget deficits are crucial if there is a deficiency in private aggregate demand – which means that private spending is not sufficient to creates orders for goods and services that will entice firms to employ all the available labour force.”

              http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=17083

              They’re even more likely to default on their debt if you strangle their economy with Austerity so that small business goes bankrupt, unemployment continues to rise and aggregate demand is destroyed…

              • Gosman …
                1 December 2011 at 4:54 pm

                You are not dealing with this issue. The problem in much of Southern Europe is Sovereign Debt. Your solution to the problem is more of this Debt. Who in their right mind would lend to these nations if they can’t affrd the repayments at the moment?

                • AAMC …
                  1 December 2011 at 5:30 pm

                  And who in their right mind would lend to a Nation who has no chance of ever repaying it’s debt cause nobody has a job.

                  Stalemate.

                  Debt Jubilee!

                  Or Depression!

                  Major contributors to Sov debt – GFC reducing tax take, tax avoidance, trade imbalance with Germany due to wage supression. Both side need to take a haircut, ECB need to be LOLR, or default, exit Euro, start printing money.

                • mik e …
                  1 December 2011 at 10:44 pm

                  They could afford to if they had a proper taxation system but the rich don’t pay much tax in these countries but they can afford to buy porsche cayenne’s on the never never.

            • mik e 8.1.1.1.2.3
              1 December 2011 at 10:41 pm

              No it wasn’t the dodgy banks that continued to lend when they knew these countries couldn’t afford the loans .
              Loan sharks we call them here ie Hanover SCF bridgecorp etc .$16 billion of dodgey loans lost in NZ
              The worlds dodgey loan balance is frightening
              Ask Shonkeys old crew Merrill Lynch mob $ 79Trillion
              Now his new masters Goldman Sachs have another $ 79 trillion of bad debt on their books as well.
              ShiftyKey is asking us to sell our assets through their subsidiaries

          • Gosman 8.1.1.1.3
            1 December 2011 at 3:46 pm

            This is the problem for many people on the left. There is this strange belief that Governments can borrow indefinately. People can’t and neither can Governments. You could always default it is true but then when you want to borrow more noone is going to lend to you unless you pay them a serious risk premium. I suggest you study places like Zimbabwe between the late 1990’s and 2008 to see where this sort of thinking leads you.

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.3.1
              1 December 2011 at 3:48 pm

              Don’t be obtuse.

              Governments don’t have to borrow indefinitely, they can decide to create interest free credit themselves instead of waiting for banks to create interest bearing credit for them.

              Zimbabwe is an irrelevant example of a lawless country with self destructing governance. Worgl is a much better example.

              http://www.mindcontagion.org/worgl/worgl2.html

              • Gosman …
                1 December 2011 at 3:57 pm

                Zimbabwe is not a lawless country. It has a huge amounts of laws and regulations, It just has a selective application of some of those laws. The country also pretty much followed your advice. It created it’s own credit to invest in productive areas of the economy. The outcome wasn’t very surprising at all. The highest inflation rate in the world and the destruction of their capital base.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  1 December 2011 at 4:31 pm

                  Gosman defending Mugabe and Zimbabwe.

                  Loser.

                  • Gosman …
                    1 December 2011 at 4:58 pm

                    Misepresenting my position yet again C.V. Whaere exactly have I defended the policies of Zanu-PF? In fact you will see that I have done the opposite on numerous occasions. All I am doing in pointing out where you are wrong, (which isn’t too difficult to be honest).

                    • McFlock …
                      1 December 2011 at 5:12 pm

                      Sigh. meanwhile the claim you made that “some people on the left” believe “governments can borrow indefinitely” goes ignored. 
                         
                      All for a semantic point about whether a selective enforcement of laws to benefit the ruler is functionally or even theoretically different from “lawlessness”. 
                         
                      However, as distractions go it wasn’t as irrelevant as most: you argued that Zimbabwe followed the “advice” of government self-credit and (to be relevant) that this is the major cause of Z’s woes. I would suggest that the collapse of the agricultural sector to the point that the “breadbasket of Africa” became a net importer of food was also a significant factor, as was the parcelling off of formerly productive assets to cronies.
                       
                      A bit like partial asset sales – after all, it’s not likely the 49% will be distributed among the so-called “99%”.

                    • mik e …
                      1 December 2011 at 10:46 pm

                      Gooseman National must be a left wing party then borrowing like theirs no tommorrow.

                    • Gosman …
                      2 December 2011 at 9:22 am

                      Zimbabwe followed standard tradional left wing economicics. Redistribution of land from the rich to the poorer sections of society and the creation of credit on a huge scale to help with the inputs for turning that productive. The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe was used to help finance massive amounts of supposedly productive investments via the printing of money. This is exactly what people like Colonial Viper are advocating. The politics of the country is irrelevant. It is the economic policies that caused the massive hyper-inflation.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 December 2011 at 9:36 am

                      Zimbabwe followed standard tradional left wing economicics.

                      No they didn’t – standard left-wing economics would have had the people being trained first.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 December 2011 at 9:39 am

                      and the creation of credit on a huge scale to help with the inputs for turning that productive.

                      Try and keep up, that would now appear to be standard right wing economics. Or did you not notice the U$7.7T bailout the US Federal Reserve gave to the largest six us banks on the last days of the GW Bush administration?

                      Of course what you are also doing is misrepresenting left wing economics. For the most part what we generally advocate is public control of the creation of money. For the life of me I cannot see why private interests should profit off this essential social function.

                      The issue of grossly excessive credit creation, such as what happened in Zimbabwe or the USA at present, is a somewhat different although related matter. Whether this occurs under a private or a public regime.. the hyperinflationary outcome is much the same really.

            • AAMC 8.1.1.1.3.2
              1 December 2011 at 4:48 pm

              And what lenders have forgotten and have been allowed to get away with courtesy of corporate welfare, is that there is risk in lending.

              They created this debt overhang through their own handouts and touting, the governments should be bailing out the mortgage holders rather than bailing out the banks who then evict those who can’t repay their debts because of stagnant wages & job losses due to off-shoring and technology. This way, private debt would be reduced rather than lenders risk reduced and there would be growth in the economy at the hands of demand and so the tax take increases, business does better in the real economy and those public debts become more manageable.

              But as long as you neo-liberals undermine the tax take and further put the power in the hands of a small bunch of corporations rather than democratically elected governments, we’re f$$ked!

              Fortunately the cops refused to evict this 103 yr old on behalf of JP Morgan, I wonder what the cut off is before the banks stop being morally supine?

              http://gawker.com/5863751/

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      1 December 2011 at 12:04 pm

      Can you please stop with the full article dumps?

      Oh, and can you also learn to use HTML formatting so that we can tell the difference between what you wrote and what you’re quoting?

  9. Glenn 9
    1 December 2011 at 10:25 am

    NZIER Principal economist Shamubeel Eaqub delivered a dour outlook for the domestic and global economies when releasing NZIER’s latest Quarterly Predictions..
    …“New Zealand’s fledgling recovery will be severely hampered by the rapidly worsening global economy,” Eaqub said.

    NZIER’s central scenario – where it assumes a political solution is found that prevents the Euro area from breaking up – has economic growth at just 1.5% in 2012, gradually rising to 2.5% by 2014.

    The slower recovery would dampen tax revenue.

    “A 2014-15 return to budget surplus projected by the Treasury– estimated before the global outlook deteriorated so rapidly – will be challenging. Government spending programmes will face further scrutiny,” he said
    Finally, a more pessimistic scenario in Europe could not be ruled out.

    “If the Euro area splits, New Zealand firms should prepare for another global crisis. This would restrict access to capital and push up global borrowing costs, in addition to an even weaker export outlook. New Zealand would likely experience another recession and the Reserve Bank would need to cut interest rates. We place the odds of such a scenario at about 25%,” Eaqub said.
    http://www.interest.co.nz/news/56966/no-hike-official-cash-rate-until-mid-2013-due-european-debt-crisis-nzier-says-201415-govt

  10. Jackal 10
    1 December 2011 at 10:41 am

    The shadow economy

    Why do we hardly ever hear about the corporate crime that is by far the biggest contributor to lost taxes? Why hasn’t there been any proper academic study into how much white collar crime is actually costing New Zealand? One can only asume that the governments complacency is due to some officials being corrupt.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      1 December 2011 at 12:27 pm

      It’s not necessarily white collar crime nor corporates. Hell, you even quote the relevant bit:-

      Cash trade jobs, crimes, wages under the table and online trading…

      Most of these are usually done by the proprietors of small businesses and not corporates. Get enough small dodges here and there and the total amount will be huge. The amount of such crime is going up ATM due to the recession – contractors can only get work by cutting prices and since living and operating expenses aren’t going away (are, in fact, going up at rates far higher than the CPI) what’s getting cut is the taxes that they’re supposed to be paying.

      It’s for this reason that I would like to see data matching between the banks and IRD and businesses to use an IRD based online accounting package like Xero (which is presently running at a loss so the government could buy it cheap).

      Corporates tend to dodge tax by hiring accountants and lawyers to hide their tax dodging behind legal mumbo-jumbo.

    • prism 10.2
      1 December 2011 at 1:55 pm

      Jackal Seeing that Transparency International tells us that we think we are so transparent, perhaps officials under scrutiny could be said to have been corrupted (through imbibing too much right wing economists dogma) rather than corrupt as in exchanging advantage with some client citizen.

      • Jackal 10.2.1
        1 December 2011 at 7:05 pm

        I totally agree… the definition of corrupt within the New Zealand dynamic needs to be redefined.

        Personally I think cutting help for battered woman while giving huge subsidies to farmers who are polluting the environment and beneficiary bashing while politicians get huge pay increases is corrupt. Not to mention the fact that some politicians will personally benefit by selling off our assets… FFS!

        Strange that the Transparency rating comes out at the same time as information showing New Zealand’s shadow economy as a percentage of GDP is similar to China. Something doesn’t add up again.

        The Auditor-General Lyn Provost said today:

        The 16th annual Transparency International index ranks 183 countries by their perceived levels of public sector corruption. New Zealand’s score of 9.5 puts it at the top of the rankings ahead of Denmark and Finland on 9.4.

        “The New Zealand public sector can be very proud of the way it continues to uphold our strong system of government and our community values,” Mrs Provost said.

        “Nevertheless, trends overseas tell us that patterns of fraud are changing. We would be naive to think we are immune from the pressures that affect other countries and economies similar to ours. Ongoing vigilance is particularly important in the current global economic climate, which increases the risk of fraud as many people struggle to make ends meet.”

        From my experience the government hasn’t been very transparent. In fact the Treasury and the Ombudsman witholding information concerning asset sales, the Denniston Plateau plan not being announced until after the election and the teapot tapes being suppressed by John Key getting the Police to strong arm the media is damn corrupt through and through.

        Plus it hasn’t been a year yet since the last Transparency index… so how can it be annual? Looks like another pile of steaming donkey doo to me.

        • prism 10.2.1.1
          2 December 2011 at 9:04 pm

          The link on Jackal’s comment goes to a piece from the European Network on Debt and Development.

          Figures…show New Zealand comes in at number 51 of 145 countries in terms of the cost of tax abuse. Australia is 19th.
          Total tax evasion is in excess of US$3.1 trillion ($4 trillion) or about 5.1 per cent of global GDP.
          The biggest shadow economy in absolute terms is that of the United States at just over US$1.2 trillion.
          This means that the USA on its own has nearly one third of the world’s lost revenue from tax abuse.
          It is followed by Brazil, Italy, Russia, Germany, France, Japan, China, United Kingdom and Spain.

          When compared with the size of tax evasion compared with national health budgets, Bolivia comes top with lost tax equivalent to 419 per cent of medical care.
          It is followed by Russia and in third place, Papua New Guinea on 305 per cent.

          The total tax lost each year in NZ from the shadow economy – that is from people who evade tax or move it to tax havens – is $7.1b. Should we be as worried about the volatile exchange rate system that we have adopted? We are fairly stable and apparently a handy parking place for mobile dough. We sign trading contracts on the basis of one rate, hedge against variations, and then find that through speculators’ trading beyond this we receive less profit than we had allowed for. A considerable proportion of the payment is virtually spirited away before we can get our hands on it. How does the loss per annum from this measure up to our health budget?

          • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1.1
            2 December 2011 at 9:30 pm

            Forget about tax evasion – outfits like Ireland allow corporations and hedge funds to legally pay sweet FA tax, thanks to collusion between politicians and corporations.

            • prism 10.2.1.1.1.1
              2 December 2011 at 9:36 pm

              CV I did wonder about this when I read about the European Network… Is it a case of diverting attention to one thing so we can ignore something substantial – like the quiet elephant in the room?

  11. Half Crown Millionare 11
    1 December 2011 at 10:52 am

    In these not very nice times there is always someone who can still have a have a bit of a laugh at our situation. Sent to me by a friend this morning.

    Owing to the recession in the USA hitting everybody really hard…

    My neighbour got a pre-declined credit card in the mail.

    CEOs are now playing miniature golf.

    Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 Congressmen.

    A stripper was killed when her audience showered her with rolls of pennies while she danced.

    If the bank returns your check marked “Insufficient Funds,” you call them and ask if they meant you or them.

    McDonald’s is selling the 1/4 ouncer.

    Parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children’s names.

    My cousin had an exorcism but couldn’t afford to pay for it, and they re-possessed her!

    A truckload of Americans was caught sneaking into Mexico.

    A picture is now only worth 200 words.

    The Treasure Island casino in Las Vegas is now managed by Somali pirates.

  12. freedom 12
    1 December 2011 at 11:03 am

    here is a live feed from that place where they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to decide they cannot really do much right now as all the people who could bring about real immediate change are all far too busy making shit loads of money

    http://www.justin.tv/oneclimate#/w/2162171008/2

  14. Kevin 14
    1 December 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Ralph Norris , former head of the Commonwealth Bank Australia has some sage advice we should all heed:

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=210072

  15. travellerev 15
    1 December 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Here are my top 5 scariest events under way that either not or barely make it into the mainstream media :http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/the-top-5-of-things-that-scare-me-the-most-today/

    • ianmac 15.1
      1 December 2011 at 2:15 pm

      Too big to comprehend trav as I weed my peas and potatoes.

    • Jackal 15.2
      1 December 2011 at 9:35 pm

      The problem with corrupted capitalism is that it is designed to collapse… it’s inevitable. War mongering for oil is just another symptom of that underlying dysfunction.

      • travellerev 15.2.1
        1 December 2011 at 9:58 pm

        Home work for this weekend:
        Chris Martenson’s presentation: the next 20 years will be radically different from the past 20

        Link

      • Draco T Bastard 15.2.2
        1 December 2011 at 9:59 pm

        Capitalism, by it’s very nature, is corrupted. And, yes, it will collapse – it must do. Capitalism creates poverty. Correcting for poverty brings about a Malthusian Correction. Not correcting for poverty brings about war and famine. Both of these will eventually result in the destruction of the society that had capitalism (hierarchy) as it’s organisational structure. The result that we’re looking at over the next few years.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox 15.2.2.1
          2 December 2011 at 10:15 pm

          If that the case why didn’t that happen in the 1930s? 

          • Colonial Viper 15.2.2.1.1
            2 December 2011 at 10:34 pm

            DTB said that it would “eventually” result in the destruction. That’s what is coming down the pike now.

  16. randal 16
    1 December 2011 at 1:52 pm

    this government is not going to last.
    it wasnt built to last and there are leaks in it already.
    byeee byee kweeweee.

    • ianmac 17.1
      1 December 2011 at 2:11 pm

      Ultimate recycling?

    • joe90 17.2
      1 December 2011 at 2:13 pm

      Hmm…. the authors background makes me think that the above article could be somewhat less than accurate.

      “Formerly a Senior Counselor at APCO China and a Visiting Fellow at Project for the New American Century, Gutmann has also written on security issues, the growth of Chinese nationalism, and the US business scene in Beijing for the Asian Wall Street Journal, Investor’s Business Daily, the Weekly Standard, and other publications. Gutmann’s book, Losing the New China received several awards, including the “Spirit of Tiananmen” (2005), the “Chan’s Journalism Award” for outstanding writing (2005), and the New York Sun’s “Best Book of 2004.”

      • Colonial Viper 17.2.1
        1 December 2011 at 3:27 pm

        Common knowledge (or at least, common speculation) in Asia that this has been happening for years.

        Tidy head shot execution means plenty of time for organ harvesting to the value of many thousands of dollars.

  18. ianmac 18
    1 December 2011 at 4:29 pm

    That Pundit post by Nicky Hagar has reached 5,490 visits. A record perhaps for readings for a single post in about 24 hours? Hard to know unless the site publishes visits for single posts.

  19. Ianupnorth 19
    1 December 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Hopefully this doesn’t get lost in Open Mike and someone will cross post! From a UK friends Facebook status

    ‘A Banker, a School Teacher, a Tory MP and a Daily Mail reader are sat around a table. In front of them is a plate, on which there are ten biscuits. The Banker scoffs nine of the biscuits, then the Tory turns to the Daily Mail reader and whispers in his/her ear “Watch out, that teacher is after your biscuit.’

    Sounds a little like how Herald readers and Nat supporters would handle this situation!

  20. Jackal 20
    1 December 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Bay of death

    The authorities expect people to believe that after New Zealand’s worst marine oil spill, we have an unrelated naturally occurring outbreak of Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning that has made the shellfish toxic…

    • Ianupnorth 20.1
      2 December 2011 at 6:52 pm

      The PSP toxin has been in the BOP region for over three years, the first recommendations in relation to not collecting or eating seafood from there was about 2 years ago. Toi Te Ora Public health have been working with the local Iwi in the EBOP region to raise awareness since then. There has been ongoing monthly monitoring for nearly three years; as soon as the all clear is given everyone is informed

      I am not saying that the is NOT a rise, just that this has been about for ages – the standard press release goes out every time there is another test result. – see http://www.toiteorapublichealth.govt.nz/news_and_events/m/12/yr/2011/id/357

  21. pollywog 21
    1 December 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Charges over cherrypicker death

    The Department of Labour have laid charges following the death of a Filipino man, who was crushed by a toppled cherrypicker while doing lines work near Wellington.

    Another man was also injured in the incident which happened near the Makara wind farm on June 2.

    There are more than 100 Filipino high-voltage linemen in New Zealand, who have been attracted by its higher wages, according to Dennis Maga, a spokesman for Filipino support network Migrante Aotearoa.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6070857/Charges-over-cherrypicker-death

    literally pay them peanuts, treat ’em like monkeys and work ’em like dogs til they die

    Another one of Brownlees failures to oversee safety under his portfolio.

    http://www.electrix.co.nz/Electrix/Default.asp

    Electrix is a subsidiary of McConnell Dowell Pty Ltd who… surprise surprise are also in charge of the Huntly mine.

    http://www.macdow.com.au/news/huntly-east-mine-north-shaft-project-award

  22. Jackal 22
    1 December 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Fukushima is worse

    Nuclear power plants are far too dangerous to keep operational past their closure dates. It is a crime against humanity to continue to use a technology that has so much destructive potential.

    With children in Japan now showing serious health issues because of exposure to radiation after the Fukushima meltdowns, now is a time to demand a nuclear free future.

  23. gingercrush 23
    1 December 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Okay any opinions on what is happening with the Maori Part. Pite Sharples looks set to be basically dropped and Te Ururoa Flavell set to take over the co-leadership. Presumably Turia is hoping to use her clout in her electorate by bringing in a new MP from who knows. They too seem to be doing things very quickly.

  24. Campbell Larsen 24
    1 December 2011 at 10:35 pm

    One stop shop.

    The Nats experiment with bringing the justice of the frontier to NZ with its latest plans to close provincial court rooms on the tater flimsy pretext of earthquake strengthening and relocate Ranigora court (the only remaing functiong court in Ch Ch city) to the Christchurch central police station for up to a year.

    Unmissable is the happy coincidence between these moves and the Nats stated plan of ‘streamlining justice’ including allowing a person to be tried via video or in absetia, and the tendency towards rewarding oppressive police behavior and attacks on rights with leglislative validation.

    Kiss goodby to provincial courts and say hello to arrest/ charge and convict one stop shops – coming to a neighborhood near you.

    The earthquake made us do it. Yeah right.

  25. Jackal 25
    1 December 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Unsustainable food production

    Self-reliance goes against the grain of the capitalist system, which relies on people being dependent on industrial food production. This is an unsustainable way to meet the growing demand for food, with the resources required becoming scarce.