Open mike 03/01/2025

32 comments on “Open mike 03/01/2025 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   3 January 2025 at 7:02 am

   The Harold broke with tradition by doing something useful! It recycled this report from WaPo on the first AI war: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/ai-driven-idf-operations-in-gaza-spark-debate-over-civilian-impact/G4J7PXUUMJFRTPHOJTK3GNLE2Q/

   Genocide charges against Israel brought to The Hague by South Africa question whether crucial decisions about bombing targets in Gaza were made by software, an investigation that could hasten a global debate about the role of AI technology in warfare.

   The report confirms the role of AI in Israel's spectacular success this past year. The morality of the SA case is too one-sided to take seriously though – everyone knows Hamas did genocide against Israeli civilians to start the war. Tit-for-tat reciprocity has always been normal in warfare so any prosecution selectively ignoring this reality will look like a bullshit scheme to neutral observers.

   After the brutal October 7, 2023, attack by Hamas, the Israel Defence Forces deluged Gaza with bombs, drawing on a database painstakingly compiled through the years that detailed home addresses, tunnels, and infrastructure critical to the militant group. Then the target bank ran low. To maintain the war’s breakneck pace, the IDF turned to an elaborate artificial intelligence tool called Habsora – or “the Gospel” – which could quickly generate hundreds of additional targets. The use of AI to rapidly refill the IDF’s target bank allowed the military to continue its campaign uninterrupted, according to two people familiar with the operation.

   So the Gospel truth is what produced the shock & awe of Israel's response – which Putinists will inevitable refer to as a special military operation (not a war).

   Some internal critics argue that AI has been a behind-the-scenes force accelerating the death toll in Gaza, which has claimed 45,000 lives, more than half of whom were women and children, according to the Gaza health officials. The Gaza Health Ministry does not differentiate between civilians and combatants. In a statement, the IDF said the ministry is controlled by Hamas and its data “is replete with inconsistencies & false determinations”.

   So Hamas is stopping the GHM from telling the truth. Pretending that terrorists are civilians helps make them invisible, they think – yet AI eliminates them regardless. Still, non-uniformed combatants does help others believe it ain't a war.

   This report draws on interviews with more than a dozen people familiar with the systems, many of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the details of top-secret national security topics, as well as documents obtained by the Post… The overhaul of the IDF’s vaunted signals intelligence division, known as Unit 8200, has intensified since 2020 under current leader Yossi Sariel, transforming its work and intelligence-gathering practices. Sariel championed development of the Gospel, a machine-learning software built atop hundreds of predictive algorithms
2. Tony Veitch 2

   3 January 2025 at 7:42 am

   Buckle up your seat belts – we're in for a rough ride!

   Richard Murphy outlines Trump's "economic" plan – and it ain't pretty (for us bottom feeders). 7.30 long.

   [lprent: link fixed ]
   • Tony Veitch 2.1

     3 January 2025 at 8:02 am

     Thom Hartmann (another commentator I rate) reinforces the idea that Trump, and his billionaire backers, will crash the US economy to benefit themselves! 7.00 mins long.
     • SPC 2.1.1

       3 January 2025 at 3:01 pm

       The links that come up

       28 May 2022 — The billionaire has received loans and tax breaks to help keep Tesla afloat, now he says other companies should go bankrupt for the good of the economy.

       Guardian

       21 Oct 2022 — Tesla CEO Elon Musk thinks a recession will last until the spring of 2024, he tweeted on Friday,

       Reuters

       30 Nov 2022 — Musk urged the Fed to start cutting interest rates and said rate hikes are risking a deep recession.

       Fortune

       In retrospect his comments seem a bit dumb, from inconsistent to plain wrong.

       More recently

       Elon Musk asks voters to brace for economic hardship

       At least this is based on what economists expect from Trump's polices

       In a joint letter released last week, 23 Nobel Memorial Prize-winning economists warned that Trump’s plans for tariffs, tax cuts and an immigration crackdown — including detaining and deporting millions of people — would “lead to higher prices, larger deficits, and greater inequality.” More than anything, they wrote, Trump would undermine the rule of law and political certainty, “the most important determinants of economic success.”

       The economy was sound before the election, but had some matters to address to improve things for Americans

       The call for voters to endure some hardships comes as the U.S. economy heads toward Election Day on firm footing, with consumer confidence rising, employers still adding hundreds of thousands of jobs, wages handily outpacing inflation and overall economic output chugging along. But many Americans are still struggling with big-ticket expenses like child and elder care costs, a forbidding housing market, steep insurance and debt payments and more.

       But Musk favoured the Trump programme

       “Everyone’s going to have to take a haircut. … We can’t be a wastrel. … We need to live honestly,” Musk said.

       Speaking at Trump’s Madison Square Garden rally Sunday, Musk said he wants to cut $2 trillion from the federal budget, though he didn’t specify where.

       And on Tuesday, Musk reiterated the anticipated economic pain from the plan. In response to an X user who wrote that spending cuts would cause a “severe overreaction in the economy” and that “markets will tumble,” before the U.S. emerges on “sounder footing,” Musk responded, “Sounds about right.”

       https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/economy-if-trump-wins-second-term-could-mean-hardship-for-americans-rcna177807

       https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=musk+calls+for+a+recession
   • Tony Veitch 2.2

     3 January 2025 at 8:05 am

     Whoops! The first link goes back to my emails! Could a moderator please delete?

     Here is the correct link!

     [deleted]
     • Tony Veitch 2.2.1

       3 January 2025 at 12:30 pm

       Thanks
3. Jenny 3

   3 January 2025 at 8:15 am

   The genocide in Gaza picks up its pace, after bombing and starvation, cold and exposure is the new weapon of war.
4. lprent 4

   3 January 2025 at 12:07 pm

   System was offline briefly because of some aggressive dusting dislodging a network cable. Now I have to find out why the routing failed to the other network cable.

   
5. Kat 5

   3 January 2025 at 12:35 pm

   This 'associate health minister' is a pawn….or just plain stupid…….

   
   • Kat 5.1

     3 January 2025 at 12:46 pm

     Tried to resize above image with no luck…
     • Incognito 5.1.1

       3 January 2025 at 1:32 pm

       fixed
6. Jenny 6

   3 January 2025 at 1:40 pm

   Is 'The Standard' an echo chamber of generally consistent viewpoints?

   Or is "The Standard' a forum of wide ranging and inconsistent, often divergent viewpoints?.

   This is an important question:

   Personally I consider 'The Standard' generally to be representative of a broad range of New Zealand public opinion.

   Bear with me;

   For a while now, I have noticed that the evidence being presented in these columns of genocide being committed in Gaza by the IDF is no longer being challenged, in the comments section.

   Comments denying the genocide in Gaza have dropped away, to zero. What does this mean?

   That the genocide in Gaza is widely accepted as fact by New Zealanders, and even overseas commenters who write here?

   Is this now the mainstream view?

   What does that mean?

   That most New Zealanders would agree with the statement that NZDF participation in biannual military training exercises with the IDF is an outrage?

   That most New Zealanders if polled would agree with the statement that this country is not abiding with our international legal obligations to act to prevent and punish the crime of genocide?

   That most New Zealanders if polled would agree with the statement that our country, which is a signatory to the International Convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide, does not respect the international rule of law, or the international conventions and treaties we are signatory to?

   That most New Zealanders if polled would agree with the statement that this country, by not taking even the most minimal legal and diplomatic action to prevent the crime of genocide, is committing by our inaction, a betrayal of the principles that they believe our country stands for?

   Since the release of the Amnesty International investigation that concluded that genocide is being committed in Gaza, there have been no polls taken, on whether or not New Zealanders agree or disagree with Amnesty International that a genocide is being committed in Gaza.

   In lieu of this polling, a pretty sketchy way to divine public opinion, is the comments section of the country's leading Centre-Left blogsite. I admit that.

   But if I am correct in my assessment that the lack of genocide denial in the comments section of 'The Standard' is a reflection of where New Zealand public opinion is presently at, then I have to ask, why are our lawmakers not picking up on it?
   • Cricklewood 6.1

     3 January 2025 at 1:50 pm

     Or people just can't be bothered engaging with those that bring it up ad nauseum.
     • Jenny 6.1.1

       3 January 2025 at 3:56 pm

       Cricklewood @6.1

       3 January 2025 at 1:50 pm

       Or people just can't be bothered engaging with those that bring it up ad nauseum.

       Yes, I had considered that possibility.

       It is possible that while commenters here, and New Zealanders generally. do accept that a genocide is being committed in Gaza, they couldn't care less. And would rather other people didn't keep bringing it up, otherwise we might actually have to do something to live up to our commitments to the international community and international law and convention of the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide. (the Genocide Convention). To which we are legally bound to act on as a signatory.
       Better to just ignore the genocide in Gaza so we don't have to act on our commitments.
       • Jenny 6.1.1.1

         3 January 2025 at 4:16 pm

         Ignoring the the genocide in Gaza is probably the same reason no polls are being conducted on this issue. Any sort of official, or even unofficial public confirmation that a genocide is occurring, would make it harder for officialdom to continue doing nothing about it.
       • Dennis Frank 6.1.1.2

         3 January 2025 at 4:20 pm

         Well the reason I put a few critical comments about Israel's excessive collateral damage (re Palestinian civilian casualities) onsite here last year was because it did seem like genocide to me. However the murk of war gives folks good reason to avoid jumping decisively to that conclusion. Thus moderates will defer to due process – which, for international law, is a long & winding road.

         Your point re our state obligation to the Genocide Convention seems worthy – perhaps MS will address the issue, but that depends on whether Hipkins has asked the govt to take a moral stand on that basis. If he hasn't, the ball's in his court.

         Thing is with lawyers though, a legal case is viable on the basis of evidence. I'm not confident they would deem media reporting as sufficient evidence. It creates a sufficient impression of genocide happening in our minds, but we ain't judiciary.
         • Incognito 6.1.1.2.1

           3 January 2025 at 4:44 pm

           For you, whingeing and criticising has always been the preferred option over doing some due diligence, which, BTW, is not reserved to lawyers.

           https://www.labour.org.nz/search_results?q=gaza#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=gaza&gsc.page=1
         • Jenny 6.1.1.2.2

           4 January 2025 at 8:15 am

           Dennis Frank @6.1.1.2

           3 January 2025 at 4:20 pm

           …..moderates will defer to due process – which, for international law, is a long & winding road.

           The philosopher Plutarch is credited with the original Greek proverb, "The wheel of justice may grind slowly, but it grinds fine"

           Meaning that sometimes justice may take a long time coming.

           The Rev. Martin Luther King touched on the same concept. "The arc of history may be long, but it bends towards justice".

           Unfortunately for the men women and children of Gaza being killed at an average of 250 a day this long grinding arc of justice is of no help to them, if they never live to receive that justice.

           https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam

           It is for this very reason that the Genocide Convention was created.

           The Genocide Convention gives signatory nation states the mandate to act to prevent and punish the crime of genocide.

           According to the convention;

           • They [signatory states] must act as soon as they have information about the commission or risk of commission of genocide.

           https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf
     • Jenny 6.1.2

       3 January 2025 at 9:39 pm

       '

       I wonder if during the Holocaust, did anyone in Germany ever say something similar about the extermination of the Jewish people along the lines of; 'people just can't be bothered engaging with those that bring it up ad nauseum.'?

       “Total Moral, Ethical Failure”: Holocaust Scholar Omer Bartov on Israel’s Genocide in Gaza

       Democracy Now, December 30, 2024

       NERMEEN SHAIKH: Omer Bartov is professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University. He’s an Israeli American scholar who’s been described by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum as one of the world’s leading specialists on the subject of genocide….

       OMER BARTOV: ….This is a total moral, ethical failure by the very countries that claim to be the main protectors of civil rights, democracy, human rights around the world….
       ….

       NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Professor Bartov, I want to ask about the enablers of this, as you say, genocide. In a Guardian piece last week headlined “A consensus is emerging: Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Where is the action?” columnist Nesrine Malik condemns Western complicity in what’s occurring in Gaza,…..

       But he ain’t judiciary.
   • SPC 6.2

     3 January 2025 at 3:09 pm

     The government appointed Rainbow to the Human Rights Commission (the person whose attack on McCully over UNSC Res 2334 Dec 23 2016 was one the most unhinged in our political history) and is seeking to make foreign investors sovereign by making governments liable to compensation for decisions that impact negatively on them.
   • SPC 6.3

     3 January 2025 at 3:31 pm

     The Opposition would consider

     if genocide has happened. The process involves:

     • Investigation: The investigation must meet appropriate due process standards.

     • National court: The national court of the country where the atrocities occurred has the first opportunity to determine if genocide has happened.
     • International court: If the national court is unable or unwilling to take action, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) or the International Criminal Court can consider the evidence and issue a ruling

     Otherwise it is a matter of prevention (noting incitement to genocide).

     Prevention

     The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, also known as the Genocide Convention, is an international treaty that defines genocide as a crime under international law. The UN General Assembly adopted the convention in 1948 in response to the atrocities of World War II. The convention's key features include:

     • Definition of genocide

       The convention defines genocide as any act committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group. This includes killing members of the group, causing serious harm to members, and imposing conditions of life that would lead to the group's destruction.

     • Obligations of states
     • The convention requires states to prevent and punish genocide, and not to commit it. States are obligated to enact relevant legislation and punish perpetrators, regardless of their status.
     • Incitement to genocide
     • The convention makes incitement to genocide punishable, regardless of whether the crime is actually committed.

     Punishment

     So far

     it has been the ICC issuing warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant – for crimes against humanity and war crimes (note there has been no determination of genocide). How some members of the Israeli Cabinet have not been added, because of their incitement to extreme actions/genocide, is as yet, an unresolved mystery.

     https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-rejects-state-israels-challenges
     • Jenny 6.3.1

       4 January 2025 at 12:11 am

       The Holocaust took place between the years 1941 and 1945, four years.

       The Nuremberg war crimes trials took place between November 20, 1945 and October 1, 1946, eleven months.

       The Bosnia genocide took place between the years 1992 and 1995, three years.

       The ICJ genocide case Bosnia vs. Yugoslavia took place between the years 1993 and 2007, fourteen years.

       If the ICJ had been in existence at the time of the Holocaust, the Holocaust would have been fully completed by the time the ICJ ruled on it.

       It is quite clear that by the time the ICJ issues its final ruling on the genocide in Gaza it is likely that it will have been over for some time.

       Luckily nations don't have to await on the ICJ's decision to take action to prevent and punish the crime of genocide.

       The Genocide Convention makes no mention of the ICJ having to come to a decision before nations and governments are obligated to act to prevent and punish the crime of genocide.

       A reading of the Genocide Convention makes it clear that the nations signatory to the convention are legally obligated to act to prevent and punish the crime of genocide as soon as they have information of even just the risk of a genocide being committed.

       Genocide Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf – the United Nations

       • States must act in a timely and diligent manner to prevent or punish genocide. They must act as soon as they have information about the commission or risk of commission of genocide.
       • States are required to use their best efforts to prevent genocide.

         https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf

       In line with our obligations under the international Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide;

       The NZDF would not be allowed to attend the next biannual RIMPAC military training exercise in 2026, if the IDF are involved.

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350307737/why-nz-navy-training-israel-and-what-could-mean

       NZ diplomats would not be allowed by our government to boycot international commemorations if Israel was not invited.

       https://asiapacificreport.nz/2024/08/09/advocate-slams-nz-snub-of-nagasaki-peace-tribute-as-outrageous/

       To abide by our international legal obligations to the Genocide Convention, all trading links, and all diplomatic ties with the state of Israel, would have to be suspended, and all Israeli visitors to this country would have to be vetted to ensure that they have not been involved in committing war crimes, something Australia already does.

       https://asiapacificreport.nz/2024/12/15/australia-denies-some-israeli-soldiers-visas-over-war-crimes-psna-urges-nz-to-do-same/

       These are minimum peaceful measures this nation would have to undertake to comply with our legal obligations to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide to which we are a signatory.

       If the Luxon administration are reluctant to officially rule that a genocide is being committed. Then the opposition parties are obligated to put a private members bill in the ballot that this country officially rule that a genocide is being committed in Gaza.

       It is possible that Prime Minister Luxon might be able to muster enough genocide deniers within his administration prepared to go on the public record to vote down such an opposition bill. But at the very least the genocide deniers will be on the public parliamentary record. And history will not be kind to them.

       Also all the information and evidence that has been compiled and presented to the ICJ can be entered into the Parliamentary record, so that none of these deniers can claim that, ‘We didn’t know.’
     • Jenny 6.3.2

       4 January 2025 at 9:07 am

       SPC @6.3

       3 January 2025 at 3:31 pm

       The Opposition would consider…..

       …..Obligations of states

       The convention requires states to prevent and punish genocide,

       It is not up to international judiciary to make their slow determination of genocide, it is up to governments. States don't have to wait for the long slow legal grinding arc of history to conclude before taking action against genocide.

       Nation states already have a mandate to act to prevent and punish the crime of genocide.

       The International Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of genocide, gives nation states that are signatories to the convention, the mandate to preemptively act to prevent and punish the crime of genocide.

       On a side note; It is this very mandate that the Russian Federation falsely used as their legal figleaf to invade Ukraine. A legal figleaf that the government of Ukraine took a case to the ICJ legally challenging Russia’s claim of genocide made against them.

       In the case of Gaza there is a trove of evidence that Israel intend and are conducting a genocide in Gaza.

       There is zero evidence that Ukraine were conducting or was intending to conduct a genocide against ethnic Russians or Russian speakers in the Donbas.

       From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_Donbas

       During the build-up to its invasion of Ukraine, Russia falsely accused Ukraine of genocide against Russian speakers in the Donbas region……

       Russia's president Vladimir Putin used this claim of genocide to justify the invasion of Ukraine. There is no evidence to support the allegation and it has been widely rejected.[1]

       Following the invasion, Ukraine brought a case before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to challenge Russia's accusation. During the proceedings of Ukraine v. Russian Federation, the ICJ said it had found no evidence of genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars also rejected Russia's accusation.[2]….

       Back to the case of Gaza, it is the responsibility of governments to determine if a genocide is being committed and then act on that determination.

       This is still a legal and constitutional process. New Zealand parliament is considered to be the highest court in the land.

       If a members bill is brought to the floor of parliament calling on parliament to officially recognise that a genocide is being committed in Gaza, and that bill is passed, then this country is legally obliged to take action to prevent and punish the crime of genocide.

       Prime Minister Christopher Luxon who identifies himself as a committed Christian might find it hard to justify it to the members of his faith if he personally voted against such a bill. For this reason, it is possible that the Prime Minister may allow a conscience vote, permitting MPs to individually decide whether or not there is enough evidence for this country to officially determine that genocide is being committed in Gaza.

       Will the parliamentary opposition put a members bill in the ballot calling for a vote on whether or not this country determines and acts against the crime of genocide?
7. Hetzer 7

   3 January 2025 at 2:42 pm

   yep, pretty much.
8. SPC 8

   3 January 2025 at 2:50 pm

   Musk is now openly pandering to the populist right worldwide. From AFD to Reform UK.

   Not content to just support the GOP in American politics, this is indicative of personal sentiment rather than political opportunism.

   It casts his purchase of X into a new light. Not so much for free speech as right wing propaganda unleashed.

   His place in the white race identitarian movement is now obvious.

   His willingness to use his wealth in that cause, will make the defence of democracy better than that, more difficult.

   https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/2/musk-calls-for-jailed-uk-far-right-activist-tommy-robinson-to-be-released
   • tc 8.1

     3 January 2025 at 4:05 pm

     Look at who backed him to buy twitter……tech billionaires, banks and the saudies amongst others.

     One of his first acts was to reinstate Trump's account so pretty obvious why he wanted control.

     He had no issues finding the cash when the acquisition was forced on him to make good with his offer.

     X is now a more useful tool for some and an open sewer to many.
     • SPC 8.1.1

       3 January 2025 at 4:31 pm

       sure the Saudis, Qatar and UAE funds, Fidelity, Sequoia Capital, Binance (crypto currency exchange), 8VC (Lonsdale co-founder of Palantir Technologies, with Thiel and also Addepar and OpenGov) and also Sean Combs Capital …

       https://www.jacobsilverman.com/p/we-got-a-judge-to-unseal-a-list-of?ref=disconnect.blog
     • Incognito 8.1.2

       3 January 2025 at 4:37 pm

       X is now a more useful tool for some and an open sewer to many.

       Why don’t people vote with their feet? Why do they still have, use, and link tweets?

       Drain the morass/sewer by cutting off the water supply – take the megaphone away and unplug.

       Consider how you can use the internet and social media in ways that fit your own ethical values and principles and then act accordingly and appropriately.
       • tc 8.1.2.1

         3 January 2025 at 8:44 pm

         People are voting with their feet, bluesky seems to be the place. Wouldn't know have never had a SM account on any platform.

         Damage done and the jobs a good un with X from Elon, he delivered.

         How much of their traffic is human these days I wonder. X is a great place for the dead internet theory.
         • Incognito 8.1.2.1.1

           3 January 2025 at 9:11 pm

           Yeah, you’re probably right, plus an unhealthy dose of FOMO plus old habits die hard.

           Never had a Twitter account either.
       • weka 8.1.2.2

         3 January 2025 at 11:24 pm

         Consider how you can use the internet and social media in ways that fit your own ethical values and principles and then act accordingly and appropriately.

         Not really possible. All the big SM companies are unethical.

         People use SM because it's part of life and not using it creates disconnect from things that matter to them. It's a double edged sword, but voting with our feet doesn't change how Musk, Zuckerberg etc are manipulating society. Society gave too much power to the geekboys and neoliberal capitalism is not inclined to take it off them again.

         As for Twitter, I do have a bluesky and mastodon accounts, but they function somewhat differently. Twitter is still a good place to talk politics and I'm not sure bsky has replaced that yet despite the exodus. I suspect what is happening is that politic social networks are fracturing, and being replace with something else.
9. Jenny 9

   3 January 2025 at 4:37 pm

   Dame Tariana Turia has died and is currently lying in state at Moutua Gardens in Whanganui where Turia first burst onto the national political scene as the leader of a protest to reclaim the reserve known to Maori as Pākaitore.

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