Open mike 03/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 3rd, 2013 - 180 comments
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Step right up to the mike…

180 comments on “Open mike 03/07/2013 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    3 July 2013 at 6:06 am

    What will it take, to change the National Government/Labour Party consensus on climate change?

    A massive heatwave in the US, following, a similiar heatwave in Australia?

    Would a back, to back, drought in New Zealand this coming summer, shift our major political parties away from their current position of supporting more coal fields and oil wells?

    Would that be enough?

    Would it be enough, to make Federated Farmers demand that the government do something?

    Or, would it take more?

    Could our neighbor Australia, bear another unedurable climate induced heatwave disaster?

    Would that convince us?

    Maybe by some stroke of good luck, in the fickle nature of weather, the coming heatwaves and droughts might bypass us for one, or two seasons.

    Would that lead to complacency?

    Would that find us exporting millions of tonnes of coal, and drilling for oil out in the deep sea, when the climate crisis really hits?

    Will our political parties continue with politics 101, complacent and unruffled by the impending climate Holocaust?

    Next year, will climate change ever be raised to be debated as an election issue, between our major parties?

    Or even our minor ones?

    Will it be business as usual on the hustings?

    Will Jenny get sent to coventry for asking such questions?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1
      3 July 2013 at 9:15 am

      Nope, but she’ll probably lie about the reason for her ban.

    • johnm 1.2
      3 July 2013 at 12:11 pm

      Hi Jenny
      I sincerely believe National and Labour don’t give a flying whatsit about climate change.

  2. Morrissey 2
    3 July 2013 at 6:11 am

    IT’S OFFICIAL: SATIRE IS NOW OFFICIALLY DEAD.

    Even more offensive than watching the bad method acting by Obama—that Hollywood-style battery of cameras underlines the crass “celebrity” nature of this event—is the sanctimonious little caption as he is led around the compound: “He was shown around by a former prisoner.” I would have imagined that that moment was the perfect time for a former prisoner of a brutal regime to confront the head of a stratospherically more brutal regime with an awkward question or three.

    For instance: “How DARE you come here and pretend to be inspired by the suffering and sacrifice of a political dissenter?” Or: “Can you do angry as well as you do solemn?” Or: “How do you sleep at night?”

    But it looks like, for some people in South Africa, the commitment to human rights ended about twenty years ago….

    Barack Obama ‘humbled’ by visit to Nelson Mandela’s Robben Island jail – video

    President Obama said he and his family were ‘deeply humbled’ by their visit to the Robben Island jail where Nelson Mandela was kept for 18 years. Obama stood in silence for some moments in the cell where Mandela – who remains critically ill in hospital – was held. The US president wrote in the guestbook: ‘On behalf of our family, we’re deeply humbled to stand where men of such courage faced down injustice and refused to yield’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jul/01/barack-obama-nelson-mandela-robben-island-video

    • Te Reo Putake 2.1
      3 July 2013 at 6:31 am

      So no sense of perspective at all, Moz? No understanding of the symbolism of the first black leader of the US visiting the jail cell of the first black leader of South Africa?

      Quelle surprise.

      • Morrissey 2.1.1
        3 July 2013 at 7:05 am

        So no sense of perspective at all, Moz?

        The man presides over a vast gulag of illegal, secret dungeons and torture facilities; the man oversees and DEFENDS the use of drone strikes in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Gaza, and Pakistan; the man pursues and harries political dissenters, journalists and truth-tellers with the malicious zeal of a Red Chinese prosecutor in the 1950s; the man visits a dying man who twenty years ago he would have denounced as a criminal and heaps empty platitudes on him.

        And you lack the common sense or decency to perceive the monstrous hypocrisy of this?

        Come on, Te Reo, stop kidding around.

        No understanding of the symbolism of the first black leader of the US visiting the jail cell of the first black leader of South Africa?

        Mandela’s family politely asked Obama not to visit Madiba. Massive protests greeted Obama when he landed in South Africa; law associations and union groups demanded that he be arrested as a war criminal when he landed, the same way another cynical violator of human rights, General Pinochet, was arrested in England.

        Of course, you choose to ignore all that, and go with the spin. I am not surprised one little bit, sadly.

        • Jimmie 2.1.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 8:34 am

          Ah but the point you are missing Morrissey is that from TRP’s perspective because Obama’s skin colour is a darker shade of pale he can do no wrong.

          Call it the ‘Hone’ complex.

          • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.1.1
            3 July 2013 at 11:47 am

            Jimmie the Racist. Why is this not a surprise?

            • Rogue Trooper 2.1.1.1.1.1
              3 July 2013 at 1:17 pm

              “… guess he ain’t never seen no n*88er on a horse before!” -Django unchained. ( a surprisingly thought-provoking movie).

            • Jimmie 2.1.1.1.1.2
              3 July 2013 at 4:03 pm

              Nothing to do with racism – more to do with the one eyed leftist media for whom Obama can do no wrong. (Because he is Democrat & African American)

              He has carried on many of the policies which he criticized Bush for, has overseen a massive and uncontrolled increase in US foreign debt, has overseen 5 years of recession and turpid growth, not to mention using the IRS to persecute his political enemies, and has been given a free pass from a compliant media.

              Instead of treating his racial background as a side issue no the media have given him a free ride for many years despite showing many leadership flaws.

              And don’t get me started on the Nobel peace prize he won – I mean what did he do to deserve that?

              • Te Reo Putake …
                3 July 2013 at 5:15 pm

                Actually, Jimmie, you deciding that my perspective on Obama is based on skin colour is racist, given that you have not one iota of proof that it actually figures in my thinking at all.

                A simple apology and a promise to do better next time will suffice, ta.

                • Jimmie …
                  3 July 2013 at 5:25 pm

                  Look at your comment above:

                  So no sense of perspective at all, Moz? No understanding of the symbolism of the first black leader of the US visiting the jail cell of the first black leader of South Africa?

                  When you called Obama the first black leader of the US you weren’t meaning his skin colour? Um hello you introduced skin colour into the thread and now you have been fisked for it – apologies the other way methinks.

                • Morrissey …
                  4 July 2013 at 6:33 am

                  Actually, Jimmie, you deciding that my perspective on Obama is based on skin colour is racist, given that you have not one iota of proof that it actually figures in my thinking at all.

                  Hmmm. At 6:31 a.m., exactly 11 hours and 46 minutes earlier, you lectured us all that, instead of being appalled by the callous hypocrisy of that publicity stunt, we should be filled with awe-struck wonder at “the symbolism of the first black leader of the US visiting the jail cell of the first black leader of South Africa.”

                  That seems to be an instruction to ignore the war crimes and focus on the positive. It’s the kind of vacuous crap I would expect from a PR flack; I would have thought you, as a loyal Labour Party man, had at least some commitment to human rights and justice.

                  http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03072013/#comment-656958

                  • Te Reo Putake …
                    4 July 2013 at 6:44 am

                    “… you lectured us all that, instead of being appalled by the callous hypocrisy of that publicity stunt, we should be filled with awe-struck wonder …”

                    No I didn’t. You lie.

                    “I would have thought you, as a loyal Labour Party man, had at least some commitment to human rights and justice.”

                    I do, which is why your misunderstanding of the concept and associated hystrionics so often make me laugh.

                    • Morrissey …
                      4 July 2013 at 7:04 am

                      No I didn’t.

                      You are now denying your own words, in the very thread in which they appear. That’s brazen.

                      You lie.

                      No I don’t. Here are those words again: “No understanding of the symbolism of the first black leader of the US visiting the jail cell of the first black leader of South Africa?”

                      …your misunderstanding of the concept and associated hystrionics [sic] so often make me laugh.

                      Again, in this very thread, you move from simply defending a murderous hypocrite to defending some of the very murders that he oversees. But I’ll step back here and let you explain in more detail your stated enthusiasm for the “useful tool” of remote-controlled drone strikes.

                      http://www.policymic.com/articles/16949/predator-drone-strikes-50-civilians-are-killed-for-every-1-terrorist-and-the-cia-only-wants-to-up-drone-warfare

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      4 July 2013 at 11:21 am

                      The only useful tool here is the well known drone, M. Breen of Northcote. And that usefulness is somewhat diminished by his continued lies and misrepresentations.

        • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.2
          3 July 2013 at 11:53 am

          There’s no hypocrisy in supporting drone strikes, Moz. Drones are a useful tool for eliminating identified enemies and a lot less dangerous for civilians because of their relative accuracy (compared to B52’s carpet bombing SE Asia for example).

          Obama didn’t visit Mandela; you seem to have got that wrong. Same with the massive protests that didn’t actually happen. And there is no reasonable comparison between Pinochet and Obama. You’re a fool for thinking there is.

          • Populuxe1 2.1.1.2.1
            3 July 2013 at 1:39 pm

            Pretty sure Obama didn’t drop dissidents from helicopters into the sea for one thing

          • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.2.2
            3 July 2013 at 2:58 pm

            Drones allow people to be murdered at the whim of the US President. Anyone murdered is automatically considered a terrorist unless they can prove otherwise. They broaden acts of extra-judicial killing and make them much easier to carry out without any scrutiny or body bags. I can see quite a few reasonable comparisons between this and what Pinochet did.

          • Morrissey 2.1.1.2.3
            5 July 2013 at 6:53 am

            … there is no reasonable comparison between Pinochet and Obama. You’re a fool for thinking there is.

            I never said there was. That would be misleading, and unfair—to Pinochet.

            • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.2.3.1
              5 July 2013 at 8:52 am

              You’re a dimwit and an arsehole Morrissey. Grow up.

              • Professor Longhair …
                5 July 2013 at 3:39 pm

                One “Te Reo Putake” turned several hues of purple and then committed the following lines to posterity….

                “You’re a dimwit and an arsehole Morrissey. Grow up.”

                I put it to you, ladies and gentlemen, that that is perhaps the most abject signifier of defeat to be seen on this forum in a long, long time.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  5 July 2013 at 7:39 pm

                  Yep, really nailed the git, thanks for the encouragment, jazzbo.

                  • Morrissey …
                    6 July 2013 at 8:46 am

                    You’ve linked to a Victor Jara tribute. That’s ironic, given that you would undoubtedly have repeated the brutal lies told about him forty years ago by the same people whose lies you have been repeating on this mostly excellent forum.

                    Victor Jara despised hypocrites, I think you should know.

              • Morrissey …
                5 July 2013 at 5:03 pm

                You’re a dimwit and an arsehole Morrissey. Grow up.

                Translation: “I got nuthin’.”

      • Populuxe1 2.1.2
        3 July 2013 at 1:04 pm

        I would have thought it was obvious to anyone who cared to think about experiencing prejudice and overcomming inherently institutionalised racism, but I’m not sure Morrissey is particularly good at checking his white privilege.

    • Huginn 2.2
      3 July 2013 at 7:49 am

      Really? on the other hand, the POTUS could have popped in and written something more like this in the guest book:

      ‘Hey Nelson, I’m sorry that you spent nearly 28 years in jail because the CIA told the South African authorities where they could find you. You can rest assured that it won’t happen again . . . . at least not to you.’

  3. Morrissey 3
    3 July 2013 at 6:54 am

    Young Republican rally: Spinechilling
    July 3, 2013

    Note the grinning, dopey doppelganger behind the speaker’s right shoulder….

  4. Ad 4
    3 July 2013 at 7:34 am

    Just in case Mayor Brown and his Council don’t see the point of Brownlee and Bridges hooking Christchurch City Council onto the boning room chain, it’s spelled out line this:

    “this is what you will get unless you do things our way and to our timetable.”

    A great precursor to the full meeting of most of the senior Cabinet members with Auckland Council on July 16th, the Unitary Plan draft, and anyone wanting to apply for the new CE of Auckland’s job.

    Point made, Minister, point made.

    • Rosetinted 4.1
      3 July 2013 at 11:08 am

      Ad
      The government is prepared to use a fan when throwing around its preshus policies which will spearhead the Advance of NZ. So spreading the effluent from the north to the south, and not forgetting other compass points is the intention.

      The Christchurch debacle around planning and permits appears to thicken as it is revealed at last that (put planning control council acronym here) has found that buildings that don’t meet criteria have been issued with permits, or something. I’m not sure just what or how many but I don’t feel too worried and crushed by my lack of knowledge about this because nobody appears to know what they are doing anyway.

      And all the time, the point remains that this is not a normal building and planning situation, and imposing the requirement for fast issue of All building permits or whatever, is unwise at the least and probably a stupid, irresponsible and wilfully neglectful decision by politicians who will later slide away from the consequences. And they should be tracked down and put in stocks with free supplies of rotten tomatoes when there are consequences, dragged there kicking and screaming.
      Let them have a share in the distress of people trying to deal with the messes they have made.

      • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1
        3 July 2013 at 1:26 pm

        apparently consents issued by CCC over years,have got be gone over again by accredited assessors.

        In a similar flight-plan, the government’s light regulation of airline pricing (fixing) is predicted to lead to less bookings according to one industry commentator.

      • Chooky 4.1.2
        3 July 2013 at 3:08 pm

        Maybe it is not a question of quality of buildings ( ie the quality of Council consents and planning) so much as stability of the land underneath Christchurch …….and this could be a huge imponderable.

        Has anyone done a study/ a count of perfectly well engineered modern buildings in Christchurch which are now facing demolition or extremely expensive structural engineering because the ground underneath has slumped or flooded or both?

      • Rogue Trooper 4.1.3
        3 July 2013 at 3:52 pm

        Tony Marryat takes ‘leave’ over consents.
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10894535

  5. Jenny 5
    3 July 2013 at 7:34 am

    Under the guise of Nationalism and unity, the Egyptian military are preparing to take power in Egypt.

    Many of the millions of people who have protested against the Morsi regime seem to have faith in the military to side with the revolution.

    But is this the reality?

    Will the people of Egypt be betrayed by the Egyptian army?

    From stuff.co.nz

    World powers are looking on anxiously, including the United States, which has long funded the Egyptian army as a key component in the security of Washington’s ally Israel.

    General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has spoken with his Egyptian counterpart, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, although it was unclear what was said.

    President Barack Obama has urged Mursi and his rivals to compromise. But Washington has also defended the legitimacy of Mursi’s election. It is unclear how far the Egyptian military has informed, or coordinated with, its US sponsors.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/8867733/Army-ultimatum-for-Egypt-president

    Like most revolutionary situations, every thing is extremely fluid, and the final outcome is unclear.

    It is possible that the army may side with the people. (I think this outcome is unlikely. Though in history, Venezuela being a notable example, this has occurred).

    But even if the army don’t side with the people. Because of the massive size and power of the uprising, and its wide popularity, the army may not be in any position to order its soldiers to openly attack the revolutionaries.

    Unable to impose their will on the ground, reactionary pro-Western military leaders may be trying to subvert the revolution by claiming to be its champions. Their aim; to consolidate their power, until they are in a position to betray the revolution. This too has happened before. The ultimate result of the latter outcome, will be that once the army has consolidated its power and politically disarmed the revolution, a mass suppression and possibly even liquidation of the revolutionaries will begin. Personally I can’t see how this can happen either.

    • Rogue Trooper 5.1
      3 July 2013 at 1:29 pm

      Morsi is the first elected leader of Egypt in 5000 years apparently; despite this, poverty, unemployment, inflation and debt have continued to increase.

  6. felix 6
    3 July 2013 at 7:53 am

    Does parliamentary urgency have the effect of cancelling/postponing today’s security & intelligence select committee hearing?

    If not, where/when is the live stream at?

    • karol 6.1
      3 July 2013 at 8:12 am

      3 News said they’ll be streaming it live. Dotcom expected to front around 5pm.

    • Pascal's bookie 6.2
      3 July 2013 at 8:13 am

      TV3 said yesterday they’d be live streaming it, and folks were reckoning that it’s not a ‘select’ committee as such, so it should be going ahead

    • felix 6.3
      3 July 2013 at 8:33 am

      Thank you both muchly.

  7. mickysavage 7
    3 July 2013 at 8:07 am

    Auckland Council is proposing to make begging illegal.

    This has shades of John Banks Auckland City’s approach. Back in 2008 his Council passed a bylaw that made it illegal to beg. Beggars were required to apply for a licence before they were permitted to beg. Someone found begging without a permit could be required to leave the area. Failure to do so would constitute an offence punishable a fine of up to $20,000. Imagine what you would have to do to enforce it. Take away their blanket?

    That particular piece of madness was the brainchild of Paul Goldsmith. He seemed to be particularly upset that the homeless were making Auckland look messy, and he proposed changes to the New Zealand Bill of Rights so that police officers could pick people up and move them on.

    That Council budgeted $220,000 for security guards to move the homeless on. That sum could have been used to provide many homeless with shelter. It is not as if there had been an explosion in the numbers of homeless living on the streets at the time and it was estimated then that there were no more than 100 people living rough.

    The report is at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10894464

    • Bill 7.1
      3 July 2013 at 10:07 am

      And that’s on top of the similar bullshit happening in Wellington….ban begging and install collection boxes or some such that will divert money to charities.

      From the link – “Walking by or dropping a coin in a cup is not a humane way to deal with the problem.”

      If my memory serves me correctly, a coin or a note dropped on the pavement or in my hat was viewed positively; as something – how might I say? – humane.

      On the other hand, being denied access to the means for food if ‘less than enthusiastic’ about being herded or directed to charities or such like – many of which had stringent and dehumanising restrictions/procedures set around their ‘charity’…well, that’s kind of up there on the inhumane stakes.

      Social wage anybody? Make begging actually disappear?

      • risildo 7.1.1
        3 July 2013 at 11:43 am

        Palmerston North has also been using the Police to move beggars on…

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2
        3 July 2013 at 3:25 pm

        Social wage anybody? Make begging actually disappear?

        Yep, if people actually had enough then there would be no need of begging.

        That said, you’d probably still see some begging for the same reason that you still see e-mail scams – it’s a good money spinner.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 7.2
      3 July 2013 at 10:22 am

      I presume those wanting to beg have to produce ID before obtaining the permit. No mention that there are a variety of people who can’t actually prove who they are (eg. grew up in one of NZ’s cults who never registered their birth) and therefore will never be able to either apply for a government benefit until they can prove who they are or…apply for said permit.

      And why are all these homeless the responsibility of charities? Isn’t that in itself a little unfair, especially in such a tight funding environment and with little if any local government support?

      • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1
        3 July 2013 at 3:26 pm

        And why are all these homeless the responsibility of charities?

        Because if the government can point to charities doing it then they will be able to cut down government welfare and then be able to cut taxes for the rich.

    • Rosetinted 7.3
      3 July 2013 at 10:27 am

      I couldn’t remember who Paul Goldsmith was. Looked up wikipedia. Quelle surprise again.
      PAUL GOLDSMITH List MP based in Epsom
      http://www.paulgoldsmith.co.nz/‎
      I’m not surprised, since it confirms that New Zealand is on the right track. Our growth is amongst the best in the OECD, unemployment is falling, real wages are …

      Doesn’t he just sound like a heartless, selfish, money-loving, uncaring, classist, callous narcissistic p..k. A person who would allow begging if they had a permit, which they would be unlikely to be granted and which would cost money that needy people wouldn’t have! WTF. The backstory is that gangs or such are thought to be setting up beggars as an income stream. So therefore, react but do nothing to help about the need, just act to stop the pimping effect.

      • Bill 7.3.1
        3 July 2013 at 11:10 am

        When everything you own is what you are carrying on you…
        When you don’t know where, if or what you will eat today…
        When you have no idea where you will sleep tonight…
        When you use public toilets for washing…
        When you don’t have the means to cook anything…
        When you fear the effects of any illness because it will fuck you by a level of magnitudes…
        When you have to steal life’s necessities out of sheer need…
        When idiots believe you to be a closet millionaire (“The backstory is that gangs or such are thought to be setting up beggars as an income stream.”)…
        When the fine lines between disapproval, antipathy and outright violence follow you…
        When it rains or is cold…
        When you are bound in a web of countless ‘catch 22’s’ that put all social welfare out of reach…

        …a ‘crackdown’ rolls over the horizon.

    • Rogue Trooper 7.4
      3 July 2013 at 1:30 pm

      “Auckland has begun to treat beggars like dogs”- Cathy Casey.

  8. mickysavage 8
    3 July 2013 at 8:15 am

    This academic James Veitch has a strange world view. He denies that the law is being changed but agrees that the law is being “regularized”.

    When asked if the GCSB has been acting beyond the law he said that the GCSB had equipment and expertise that should be used. WTF?? Just because it is able to do something means that the law should allow it to do this?

    And security cameras on Courtney Place is justification for increased surveillance.

    I am sure that the heads of the KGB, the NSA and the Stazi would all agree with his approach. It seems to be that the security apparatus should have as much power as it needs to do its job, or at least its perception of what its job is.

    • Pascal's bookie 8.1
      3 July 2013 at 8:25 am

      If you want dancing on the head of the pin you are counting the angels on, ask a religious studies prof. I guess.

    • framu 8.2
      3 July 2013 at 8:30 am

      His critical thinking and logic is pathetic.

      His whole argument seems to boil down to “well they were doing it already so its not giving them new powers”

      never mind that what they were doing already was found to be illegal.

      never mind that the discovery of illegal practices by the GCSB is the whole reason this debate is now happening

      hes playing an agenda via semantics – something that key excels in.

      • felix 8.2.1
        3 July 2013 at 8:49 am

        I can already dig up my neighbour’s flower bed. I’ve got a shovel! Making it legal won’t give me any new powers.

        • framu 8.2.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 8:56 am

          well when you put it like that 🙂

        • Rosetinted 8.2.1.2
          3 July 2013 at 10:40 am

          felix
          Hey where do you live? I want to keep an eye on you. Even though I don’t have a flower bed.

          Now I think of it, you doing something with a shovel would be an improvement on what passes for my garden. Welcome friend!

          Reminds me of the joke in Porridge with Ronnie whatisname. He was in stir, and wanted his front garden dug over for his spring vegetable planting. Put in a letter to his wife to make sure that she didn’t go near the front garden with a spade. As he was supposed to have loot hidden for afters, the police took an interest in this garden, with helpful effect. Shows lateral thinking wot!

          • felix 8.2.1.2.1
            3 July 2013 at 12:42 pm

            Heh I remember that one too. Also heard about some people up north who got the police to spray a large area of gorse by throwing heaps of cannabis seeds into it and reporting that they’d discovered someone’s plants on their land.

        • weka 8.2.1.3
          3 July 2013 at 11:16 am

          Speaking of gardening, they should apply the whole “they were already doing it so it’s not giving them new powers to make it legal” thing to growing cannabis.

      • Ugly Truth 8.2.2
        3 July 2013 at 11:24 am

        The civil system is built on semantic games aka words of art. Words of art like appear, person, and vehicle are major parts of the machinery of control. The words are systematically misinterpreted as being matters of fact when they are judicially interpreted as matters of law. This means that the system can effectively introduce arguments which are cloaked by legalese.

        For example: it is a matter of fact that a person can look like a human being, but an appearance as a person under the act is a matter of law. The matter of fact is based on concrete physical characteristics, by the matter of law is based on intangibles like rights and obligations.

    • felix 8.3
      3 July 2013 at 8:45 am

      “When asked if the GCSB has been acting beyond the law he said that the GCSB had equipment and expertise that should be used.”

      Might have to get him to opine on the legality of the Automatic-Random-Destruction-Flamethowing-Robotic-Chainsaw-Decapitation-Machine I’m building and testing on the front lawn.

      • framu 8.3.1
        3 July 2013 at 8:46 am

        is that a kick starter thing?

        • felix 8.3.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 8:53 am

          At the moment I’m crash-starting it on the road outside the primary school, but eventually I’ll build an electrical ignition system that can be triggered remotely. You don’t want to be anywhere near this thing when it fires up, it’s fucking deadly.

          • framu 8.3.1.1.1
            3 July 2013 at 8:55 am

            ha ha – were totally talking two different things 🙂

            but would love to see you crash start such a machine

            • felix 8.3.1.1.1.1
              3 July 2013 at 9:02 am

              lolz no I’m not seeking any kickstarter funding.

              I’m funding development myself by cooking meth, which I understand to be lawful as I already have the power to do it.

              • framu …
                3 July 2013 at 9:05 am

                that would be ‘super powers’, surely

                which would make it ‘super legal’

                theres not a judge in the land who could touch you

          • Te Reo Putake 8.3.1.1.2
            3 July 2013 at 11:57 am

            Ha ha ha! If I’d been drinking coffee I would have ruined another keyboard 😉

      • mickysavage 8.3.2
        3 July 2013 at 8:52 am

        Hehe.

        It is a classic example of the search for media balance. It just goes how insane the argument is if Mr Veitch and his view is all that they can find advocating for an increase in GCSB’s power.

    • Rosetinted 8.4
      3 July 2013 at 10:54 am

      See Karol’s post – John Key’s disdain for democracy
      And I’ve put some detail about Jim Veitch and his views in a comment there.

  9. Adrian 9
    3 July 2013 at 9:06 am

    Wrong Vietch, I know, but throwing people down stairs to be made legal because they’ve been doing all day, ref!

    • mac1 9.1
      3 July 2013 at 9:23 am

      They think that’s what ‘de-escalation’ means.

    • Rosetinted 9.2
      3 July 2013 at 10:47 am

      The humour is as painful as being thrown or perhaps just pushed down stairs. Are you thinking of that political action by He Who Must Not be Named in Christchurch some years back?

      • mac1 9.2.1
        3 July 2013 at 12:24 pm

        Both.

        “To gerrymanhandle’ where a politician takes over a political entity by force as in ChCh and threatened in Auckland has now been coined to reflect that action of HWMNBN in Christchurch, and the older ‘gerrymander’ where electorates are shaped to fit desirable demographics for the incumbent.

        De-escalation is to stairs what defenestration is to windows.

  10. Bill 10
    3 July 2013 at 11:39 am

    The Guardian is reporting that Eva Morales’ plane has been diverted to Austria due to a suspicion that Edward Snowdon is aboard.

    I can’t escape the feeling that the US is fucking this up in a major way. They haven’t been able to demonise him. And the public is generally supportive/sympathetic towards him and his actions. Yet, instead of quietly ‘allowing’ him to disappear, the Obama administration seems hell bent on possibly lighting the ‘blue touch paper’ of public opinion/anger by arresting and prosecuting him.

    • Bill 10.1
      3 July 2013 at 11:49 am

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

      The plane carrying Bolivian president Evo Morales from Russia has been rerouted to Austria, following suspicions that the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden was onboard, leading to a major diplomatic incident.

      Bolivian foreign minister David Choquehuanca said that French and Portugese authorities refused to allow the plane to fly through their airspace. He added that rumours Snowden was onboard were unfounded.

      “We don’t know who invented this lie. We want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales,” Choquehuanca told the Associated Press.

      • Te Reo Putake 10.1.1
        3 July 2013 at 12:05 pm

        This is getting weird, Bill. If this puts the aircraft at risk, then it could be a major international incident.

        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 8:38 pm

          It’s more than weird, it’s getting sinister.

          A couple of days ago, politicians all throughout the EU were absolutely livid at revelations that the USA had been spying on not just them, but all of their citizens as well.

          Today, the governments of Spain, France, Portugal and Italy deny overflight rights to Morales’ official government jet, forcing his jet to emergency land in Austria, simply because the US was suspicious that Snowden was on the flight.

          Also, Germany – the main target of US espionage in Europe – has turned down an asylum request by Snowden.

        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.2
          3 July 2013 at 8:54 pm

          So get this TRP:

          VIENNA (Reuters) – Bolivian President Evo Morales said on Wednesday he was awaiting Spanish permission to fly home through its airspace after he refused Madrid’s request to inspect his plane following its diversion to Vienna.

          So get this: Spain denies overflight permission to Morales, a sovereign leader with diplomatic immunity and a plane which is considered Bolivian territory. Morales turns around and lands his jet in Austria.

          Spain then asks Morales for permission for them to inspect the plane while it is in Austria, based on US suspicions that Snowden is onboard.

          It doesn’t get more fucked up and weird than this.

    • joe90 10.2
      3 July 2013 at 12:57 pm

      Morales in Vienna but not Snowdon.

      VIENNA — Bolivian President Evo Morales is at Vienna airport, but fugitive US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden is not on board his plane, an Austrian foreign ministry official confirmed early Wednesday.

  11. felix 11
    3 July 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Who was the tory-boy who just finished speaking in parliament who thinks murderers are a bunch of “ratbags and rascals”?

    Either Jamie Double-Barrell-Name or Paul Foster-Private-School.

    • weka 12.1
      3 July 2013 at 3:34 pm

      Me too.

      Shearer’s caucus agreed that it was a good job, and rewarded him this morning by giving him his 11th gold star sticker. Shearer has been told that every time he does a good thing, he’ll receive another gold star, and if he can get to 20 before September, “nothing bad will happen.”

      It shouldn’t be funny, but what else is there to do now except laugh.

  13. karol 13
    3 July 2013 at 12:22 pm

    My response as a sometime passenger on Auckland’s buses, to the idea that passengers should always have small change:

    I’m not a f**king banker!

    Why are there not change machines available, if the drivers can’t cope with notes? Even if I have smallish change most times, some times it’s just not possible. And the bank machines give out $20, sometimes $50 notes. There’s not always somewhere near by to change the notes when ruihing to catch a bus.

    Where are we supposed to get all this small change from?

    • felix 13.1
      3 July 2013 at 12:37 pm

      We’re not supposed to get small change. We’re supposed to get rfid chips implanted in our bodies.

    • Rosetinted 13.2
      3 July 2013 at 1:17 pm

      karol
      Inefficient money tokens. You must comply. You must comply. The Luggage in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld books was actually a prototype public transport vehicle powered by people who didn’t have the right change.

    • Populuxe1 13.3
      3 July 2013 at 1:45 pm

      What’s the point? Frequent bus users get a bus card and the over 65s have a gold card. Cash is being phased out completely. If you use a bus so infrequently that you pay in cash, you’ve obviously got every opportunity to be prepared rather than make life difficult for the bus driver and his passengers. Hell, for a twenty you could probably take a cab.

      • felix 13.3.1
        3 July 2013 at 2:49 pm

        Yeah, god forbid anyone should just want to take a bus without checking with Populuxe first.

        • Populuxe1 13.3.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 3:57 pm

          Feckless, why should other users be inconvenienced and bus drivers held up at gun/knife point because you refuse to do your bit for an efficient public transport system? Seems to me you are making this much more about you than I am about me.

      • Rogue Trooper 13.3.2
        3 July 2013 at 2:55 pm

        Elenchus Pop, elenchus.

      • McFlock 13.3.3
        3 July 2013 at 3:02 pm

        If I took a dunedin bus every day, I’d pay a grand a year yo get to work.
        My scooter is about $600/year or less (probably including depreciation – in the region of $5 or $10/week fuel).

        I have a full card wallet (nothing fun – discount cards, IDs, licence, door passes, etc), and use the bus only one day a week and on occasion on the weekends. The last thing I need is another card that saves me feck all.

        • Populuxe1 13.3.3.1
          3 July 2013 at 3:54 pm

          In Christchurch the card saves me hella money – it actually gets cheaper the more times a week you use it.

          • McFlock 13.3.3.1.1
            3 July 2013 at 4:14 pm

            IIRC the dunedin gocard saves a flat 10% or so.

            Still much cheaper to use private transport, which is just dumb.

        • NickS 13.3.3.2
          3 July 2013 at 8:57 pm

          Or just bike 😛

          (if you can)

          Though I hear dunner’s is a bit interesting to bike around.

          Anyhow, my push bike only costs about $140/year roughly, taking into account parts costs for new gear clusters, wheels etc.

      • karol 13.3.4
        3 July 2013 at 4:09 pm

        Oh, pop, you are soooo out of touch. There are various kinds of unforeseen situations. And even trying to conserve cash at other times, I don’t always have the cash. It’s the exception rather than the rule, but it happens on occasions.

        I have an Auckland train Hop card. I can’t use it on a bus in Auckland right now.

        Taxi? Right, and the change from that?

        • Populuxe1 13.3.4.1
          3 July 2013 at 4:30 pm

          The Auckland system is a mess, but that’s Argumentum ad Jaffarium. Busses in Auckland are cheaper than Christchurch from my experience of having used both fairly frequently. It’s Auckland – how likely are you to be able to find somewhere nearby to buy some chewing gum and get change? If things are that tight, you might want to consider a bicycle.

          • karol 13.3.4.1.1
            3 July 2013 at 5:15 pm

            Thank you. I have a permanent injury that prevents me riding a bicycle.

            Last Sunday, I was waiting for a bus outside New Lynn transport centre (my car is currently off the road). The Mall shops opposite were closed at that time. A guy was going around asking all the other people waiting for buses for change of a $20.00 note – no luck. There was nowhere for him to get change at that time, except possibly an after hours pharmacy nearby – though they must get sick of being asked for change..

            He looked totally despondent.

            Get a clue about what you are talking about.

            • Populuxe1 13.3.4.1.1.1
              3 July 2013 at 5:22 pm

              Gosh, you mean that public systems don’t always favour individual circumstances?! Well knock me down with a feather!

              • McFlock …
                3 July 2013 at 5:30 pm

                but they should at least make a reasonable go at it.

                Otherwise you have an “efficient” public transport system that runs perfectly – but has few or no passengers.

                I can give you a myriad of examples of public transport that runs to the system’s convenience, not the citizens’ convenience. Sadly, all of them from Dunedin.

                • karol …
                  3 July 2013 at 5:42 pm

                  Exactly, McF. At the moment, there’s not enough focus on providing Auckland’s public transport for the people, in an integrated and effective way.

                  I actually think the bus drivers can be very helpful. But the whole system needs to be improved – including integrated ticketing, more reliable timetabling etc.

                  But, also, there needs to be machines to deal with coins/notes for those that need them. There is that provision for people taking trains – plenty of machines at train stations, and they take cards or cash.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    3 July 2013 at 5:56 pm

                    Timetables are probably less useful than smartphone apps and the electronic systems also widely available at bus stops. As for the ticketing machines – yes it works for trains where you have fewer stops and these in large and secure stations, but it would be very expensive to install these anywhere other than bus exchanges and transport nodes – they would be vulnerable to theft, vandalism, and what exactly do you do if THEY don’t have enough change?

                    • McFlock …
                      3 July 2013 at 6:12 pm

                      No more vulnerable than an ATM.

                      And if they have not enough change, they cancel the transaction, return the funds, and send a maintenance call to the operators. Or give the customer the option of adding an amount to a new concession card, if needs be.

                      Sorted.

                      Somehow I think you’re looking for reasons to settle for a crap system,

                    • McFlock …
                      3 July 2013 at 6:12 pm

                      No more vulnerable than an ATM.

                      And if they have not enough change, they cancel the transaction, return the funds, and send a maintenance call to the operators. Or give the customer the option of adding an amount to a new concession card, if needs be.

                      Sorted.

                      Somehow I think you’re looking for reasons to settle for a crap system, though.

                      damn, sorry – double post

                    • karol …
                      3 July 2013 at 6:18 pm

                      Actually, I was thinking of the electronic systems at the bus stops as much as anything. And the timetables on MAXX online that I usually check before travelling. they are pretty unreliable.

                      Did you see the TV3 News report on these systems in Auckland? – last week, I think. Buses that are listed as coming in 10 minutes, then 20 minutes, then disappearing off the board and the bus never appearing. They 3 News experience is pretty much what I have experienced frequently. “Ghost buses” 3 News called some of them.

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      3 July 2013 at 6:20 pm

                      The last time I checked, ATM’s are either inside shopping centres, petrol stations, in their own secure annex accessed by swipe card, or built into the exterior wall of a bank – perchance these might have rather better security than your average bus stop?

                    • karol …
                      3 July 2013 at 6:32 pm

                      I wasn’t thinking about ticket machines at bus stops, but at transport centres, Malls, etc.

                      Like New Lynn transport centre. Plenty of secure places for them. Till, with buses, I suspect there will always be a need for the cash option, though it could be minimised greatly.

                      Maybe also small cash-taking machines on buses. Easier on the drivers. Mind you, any machine needs to be well maintained. On my weekend bus, the driver was held up at several stops by a malfunctioning ticket dispenser.

                      And I’ve been in the queue at Britomart when people have been complaining about malfunctioning Hop cards.

                      PS: not everyone has a smart phone, etc. Sounds like a very middle-class perspective.

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      3 July 2013 at 6:47 pm

                      I don’t have a smartphone either, but neither am I going to get all huffy and snotty and pretend that doesn’t put me in a minority or make me special

                    • McFlock …
                      3 July 2013 at 10:08 pm

                      actually, I know of one that was built into theexternal wall of a menswear shop, and at least two in external walls of a student centre. Not to mention one next to a liquor store I encountered in Wellington.

              • Rosetinted …
                3 July 2013 at 5:38 pm

                Any bold hero willing to step up to this challenge?

      • karol 13.3.5
        3 July 2013 at 4:10 pm

        PS; Cash means no-one can spy on what I’m doing. I know…. nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

        I actually prefer cash to cards a lot of the time.

        • Populuxe1 13.3.5.1
          3 July 2013 at 4:32 pm

          If you are seriously that paranoid, I’m surprised you aren’t worried the government aren’t tracking you by the metal strip in your twenty dollar note FFS

      • lprent 13.3.6
        3 July 2013 at 4:11 pm

        I’d guess you really don’t know Auckland? Or that you never use public transport around the city…

        I take the bus (uses either a Hop card or Snapper card), sometimes the train (uses AT Hop card), sometime the ferry when heading to devonport (AT Hop). Some of the many bus lines take Hop and others take Snapper. There is currently one bus line (Urban Express) that takes AT Hop. I’ve given up even bothering to try to figure out which bus lines take what are which.. And I’ve used all three modes of transport over the last couple of weeks

        So you can see that at present I’d have to carry cash on 3 different cards. Moreover the Hop and Snapper cards I cannot top up on the net because the silly fools tried to retail the cards rather than figuring out how to make them useful for commuters. I have to find one of the rare dairies that actually knows how to use their machines. At present it is a hell of a lot easier to carry cash.

        This is what is known as “Steven Joyce efficiency” named after the fuckwit minister who made it happen by screwing up a perfectly good integrated ticketing plan for his wellington mates at Infratil so they could recover their investment on Snapper…

        Taxi’s? Hah – I guess you live in some minor provincial town probably like Wellington :twisted:. Ummm in fact any other town in NZ is less than third of Auckland’s population.

        Twenty dollars will usually take me from home to work at rush hour. That is from Grey Lynn to the Bridge (at the other end of Ponsonby). If I wanted to head out to New Lynn way where Karol haunts, then it’d be closer to $50 one way. The airport is closer at something like $70 in rush hour.

        Basically if you don’t know what you’re talking about for Auckland public transport, then why didn’t you just listen rather than writing like a hick?

        • Populuxe1 13.3.6.1
          3 July 2013 at 4:37 pm

          Hick? Seriously? How about you stop writing like such a fucking JAFA. Three quarters ofthe population don’t live in Auckland and can seem to get their public transport systems to work just fine. Auckland system is fucked up – that’s seriously Auckland’s problem and nothing to do with the efficiency in the rest of the country or busses in general. Argumentum ad fucking Aucklandium – but excuse me, I have to retire to my cabin in the fucking woods now.

          • Draco T Bastard 13.3.6.1.1
            3 July 2013 at 5:23 pm

            Auckland system is fucked up – that’s seriously Auckland’s problem and nothing to do with the efficiency in the rest of the country or busses in general.

            There’s a few aspects to Auckland’s PT:
            1.) We built roads rather than PT over the last 5 or 6 decades thus making our PT not very good
            2.) Steven Joyce demanded that the Snapper card be accepted on buses. It then turned out that the Snapper card wasn’t compatible and couldn’t be made compatible, as promised, with the AT Hop card that Auckland Transport was rolling out
            3.) We have private companies competing to provide the buses

            All of this has resulted in a mishmash of partly done BS. It would actually be quite easy to fix – full council monopoly – but that happens to be illegal.

            • Populuxe1 13.3.6.1.1.1
              3 July 2013 at 5:31 pm

              Ok cool. Thank you for your thoughtful response, Draco. I agree with you that there should be a nationalised card system tied to the Eftpos system – that would seem eminently sensible and preferable to a council monopoly. The system as it stands is a mishmash of bullshit, but not beyond repair. Fundementally I think the card system is superior to farting around with cash for many reasons including security and efficiency.

          • lprent 13.3.6.1.2
            3 July 2013 at 8:41 pm

            How about you stop writing like such a fucking JAFA.

            I am a JAFA – hell I was born here which makes me a something of a rarity in Auckland. Sure I’ve lived for years in other cities and towns around the rest of NZ. More than enough to know that the rest of NZ has no understanding of the problems with the continuous growth in a larger city.

            Three quarters ofthe population don’t live in Auckland and can seem to get their public transport systems to work just fine.

            Nope. You are quite quite out of date.. The census is going to be interesting

            Population of Auckland 1.377 million (Jun 2011) 31.3%
            Population of Christchurch 363,200 (2012) 8.2%
            Population of Wellington 395,600 (2012) 9.0%
            Population of NZ 4.405 million (2011)

            Small population centres don’t usually have the morons from the National government attempting to screw up the transports systems like Auckland does. Basically if the National governments would fuck off and leave the transport taxes here then we’d sort it out. In the meantime we have morons like Steve Joyce and Nick Smith jerking off.

        • Draco T Bastard 13.3.6.2
          3 July 2013 at 5:28 pm

          So you can see that at present I’d have to carry cash on 3 different cards.

          That is a problem and one that should never have happened – the government should have set the standards for the cards for the cards a long time ago to ensure compatibility. It really is open standards that allow innovation. Closed standards prevent it.

    • weka 13.4
      3 July 2013 at 3:32 pm

      A $20 note seems reasonable, a $100 note not so reasonable.

      I’m guessing there is also a security issue for bus drivers carrying too much change.

      • karol 13.4.1
        3 July 2013 at 4:05 pm

        I’ve had drivers complain about a $20.00 note, and not have enough change from my fare.

        • weka 13.4.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 4:50 pm

          Maybe they’d had lots of twenties that day. I can see how it would be a logistical nightmare getting lots of bigger notes on a busy run. Easier for drivers to criticise passengers than the companies they work for too.

          On the other hand, you’d think bus companies would want to encourage passengers.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.5
      3 July 2013 at 4:03 pm

      I recall when the idiots tried to demand exact change and that was back in the days when people could be expected to actually carry cash.

      They need to run out the AT Hop card nationally ASAP. Making it part of the EFT-POS system would be good and having the government buy out the banks as part of that would be even better.

  14. joe90 14
    3 July 2013 at 12:34 pm

    This isn’t going to end very well.

    @daliaziad

    See in this photo, the supporters of #Morsi who are killing protesters in Bein Elsarayat now carrying Al-Qaeda flag!
    http://www.masrawy.com/news/Egypt/Politics/2013/July/3/5665044.aspx …

    https://twitter.com/daliaziada/statuses/352214563451715584

    • Bill 14.1
      3 July 2013 at 12:48 pm

      That going to be an Al Qaeda that the US arms, or an Al Qaeda that the US bombs? Decisions, decisions…

  15. bad12 15
    3 July 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Strike 2, well known recidivist Crim Arthur Taylor has taken it to Judith Collins (again) in the High Court at Auckland over the illegal banning of tobacco products in New Zealand prisons,

    Having been spanked previously by the High Court for what they say is an illegal ban Colin’s has rushed through an amendment to Legislation which she claimed legitimized the actions of the Crown,

    Justice Brewer in the High court at Auckland today disagreed terming the rushed amendment also illegal,

    Wonder what it will take for Collins to get the message, more burning jails perhaps, when the State cannot stop itself from behaving illegally in it’s behavior towards those it incarcerates on behalf of the community how can anyone, State and Community alike hope that these inmates once released will have the slightest respect for the law over and above what has been shown by Judith Collins,

    Kudo’s and a nod to the good legal skills of Arthur who in all His years serving time has made it as difficult as humanly possible for the forces of the State to keep Him locked up with ease, had anyone all those years ago taken the slightest bit of notice of the intelligence of this kid born on the wrong side of the social divide they would have directed Taylor’s obvious talents and nose for injustice into serving the law instead of breaking too many of them to count…

    • Rosetinted 15.1
      3 July 2013 at 1:39 pm

      Arthur Taylor has very effectively said ‘Screw you’. Fascinating isn’t it how cigarettes are the addiction du jour. I think because the crims get pleasure from smoking, rather than concern for their health, creates the hysteria in the minds of the RWNJs.. (Same disapproval was shown about beneficiaries buying chocolate biscuits.) So exterminate – exterminate these foul sticks.

      There is a cyclical pattern to be observed here. In my short lecture on addictions – I note first that in the USA they banned alcohol because you shouldn’t have it if you wanted to be healthy, happy and wise and pure in mind and body. People found that a bit dull and wearying so they changed the prohibition to marijuana because there was no money in it for the rich folks and mainly the black folks used it, and it might inflame them and heaven knows what that would lead to and lynching was now frowned on. Then banning marijuana caught on because there is value in having proscriptive laws for things that the toffy nosed are unlikely to want or use, it just marks so clearly the boundary between the better people and the rest. And NZ is part of this authoritarian, proscriptive law persuasion. Fall for it every time.

      Cigarettes Are Bad for you (except they may have an ameliorating effect if you get Behcets disease. I just throw that in as I came accidentally on it the other day and want to completely confuse my already confusing discussion.) So is banning something that people have built up an addiction to. (Remember in the war (probably at least two) the forces were issued with cigarettes. They probably fought with three cigarettes burning at the one time, didn’t care at all whether they burnt a hole in their trousers with ash.)

      People in general are prone to addictions of different sorts – what to ban next? I know what – ban addictions.

      • bad12 15.1.1
        3 July 2013 at 2:00 pm

        Lolz, as a matter of interest, or not, Arthur Taylor is not a smoker of tobacco products and never has been,

        His actions in the High Court with regards to the prison smoking ban are purely ‘socialist’ in that they were taken on behalf of the inmate population who are addicts of that particular product,

        The interesting aspect of the anti-tobacco hysteria industry is that claiming half of tobacco users will be killed by the product via heart disease and cancers is to ignore what kills half the population who have never breathed a whiff of the demonized weed which also just happens to be heart disease and cancers,

        What evil caused such maladies in the non-smoking population, too much fresh air perhaps…

        • Populuxe1 15.1.1.1
          3 July 2013 at 2:06 pm

          Same goes for mental health facilities – you can’t help or rehabilitate people if they are in withdrawl and hate your guts

          • Bill 15.1.1.1.1
            3 July 2013 at 2:13 pm

            That mad buggers from southern states you’re referring to there, aye?

        • Tim 15.1.1.2
          3 July 2013 at 2:16 pm

          When this diverts to the MSM, whatsay they get a pop-up criminologist to comment. (perhaps someone with the initials G.N.)

          … or maybe there’s another one on their list of experts

        • weka 15.1.1.3
          3 July 2013 at 3:41 pm

          The interesting aspect of the anti-tobacco hysteria industry is that claiming half of tobacco users will be killed by the product via heart disease and cancers is to ignore what kills half the population who have never breathed a whiff of the demonized weed which also just happens to be heart disease and cancers,

          So? Heart disease and cancer have multiple causation and contributory factors. That’s not being ignored, it’s just irrelevant to the smoking reduction policy. And in case you hadn’t noticed, they’re also going after other causes of heart disease.

          • bad12 15.1.1.3.1
            3 July 2013 at 5:08 pm

            What your really saying is that they have been telling us all LIES about tobacco usage’s link to cancers and heart disease for quite some time,

            Cancer in it’s various forms and heart disease will kill at least half of those who have never used tobacco products so it’s pretty f**king obvious that it will also kill half of those who use tobacco products,

            What is irrelevant is the linkage of tobacco as a cause of heart disease and cancers as the statistics show that half of those who do use tobacco products would still die of heart disease or cancer even if they had never used the product,

            50% of those who smoke will die of heart disease or cancer,

            50% of those who do not smoke will die of heart disease or cancer,

            Hardly the scare story the anti-tobacco hysterics claim right, which is why they LIE with the omission of all the facts…

            • NickS 15.1.1.3.1.1
              3 July 2013 at 9:21 pm

              🙄

              🙄

              🙄

              Note – cancer is not just one disease it’s a cluster of sometimes very genetically different diseases concerning over-proliferation of cells in the body, for which a small, but significant number of fairly nasty, treatment resistant strains are strongly correlated and have mostly understood molecular bio causal links to smoking.

              Turns out, sucking fairly potent oxidants (and mutagens, aromatic rings ftw!) into your mouth and respiratory system selects for cell lines with high copy numbers or expression of anti-oxidant proteins. Which gets in the way of the primary, oxidant release triggered cell death program, and so increases the chances of cell lines becoming tumorous and potentially cancerous. Not to mention, it kind of blocks our anti-cancer treatments, which rely on causing massive oxidation damage to kill cancerous cell lines… (source)

              So, how about you bother to go read the medical literature and bone up on basic epidemiology of cancer and heart disease in relation to smoking, instead of mouthing off ignorant bullshit? It’s only a bit of hard thinking about linkages, basic statistical thinking and mostly accessible readings. Nothing that anyone with internet access couldn’t do, made easier by tons of accessible info dumps in the form of wikipedia and science blogs.

            • weka 15.1.1.3.1.2
              3 July 2013 at 10:28 pm

              “50% of those who smoke will die of heart disease or cancer,

              50% of those who do not smoke will die of heart disease or cancer,”

              bad12, can you please link to the references for that statement? I’d like to address your points and it will be easier if I know the fuller context of that statement.

              • McFlock …
                3 July 2013 at 10:40 pm

                Actually, not too far off.
                It’s the fact that half of smokers die on average 20-odd years before non-smokers that I believe ASH & co have an issue with.

    • Murray Olsen 15.2
      3 July 2013 at 6:33 pm

      It says a lot for the calibre of NAct ministers when a self-taught crim can be all over her in court. It’s pretty obvious that her main interest is in discipline and punishment, rather than law or justice. What’s frightening is that this interest in discipline and punishment is also shared by so many of our population.

      • RedBaronCV 15.2.1
        3 July 2013 at 8:31 pm

        Probably being funded by some US group that provides private prisons because they don’t want to see their client base dying off too young – there’s money in keeping those oldies locked up.

  16. Rogue Trooper 16
    3 July 2013 at 2:19 pm

    ” a psychotic is a guy who just found out what is going on”.- William S. Burroughs.

    -US / Euro spying may lead to suspension of progress on Trans-Atlantic Partnership.
    -“the factional difficulties in the Labour caucus are complex”.- Chris Trotter. (looking older Chris, hope you are keeping in good health)
    -New Zealand’s expanding petroleum industry was discussed on RNZ Insight.
    -Ka Wha Whai Tonu Matou, Rosetinted, Ka Wha Whai Tonu Matou. The Constitution ‘conversation’ appears likely to be heavily influenced by the representative conservative values of both primary parties, consider corporate Iwi and consolidated hapu. (It was Labour that was elected in Ikaroa- Rawhiti.). It is important where one lives and votes.

    The seeds and offshoots of the IGT debate were considered by David Thomson in “Selfish Generations? : The Ageing of New Zealands Welfare State.” (welcome to the retirement home).

    Werner Gitt , an interesting process, although ‘young-earth creationism’ seems a bit unrealistic in view of the evidence.

    The US is certainly a Police State; an abundance of internal and external terrorist enemies / opponents.
    What price “Liberty”?

    Heard that ‘nice man’ Mora attempt to re-frame poverty the other afternoon, reading out some listeners small-minded contribution -” let’s re-define a ‘low-income’ as the outcome of poverty; that there will only be a a place for the ‘learning-disabled’, the mentally ill, addicted (and other disadvantaged) when there is a greater availability of low-skilled jobs”- Barbara Walker. sigh.

    The Auckland council has given ground to some of the NIMBY’s and lowered height limits in some areas on the UP.

    re IANZ and CCC, IANZ say it’s a matter of technical competence, Key says it’s a a matter of time , with developers being held up. Wonder what influence insurers are bringing to bear.
    The P0lice believe that early bar closing (in Christchurch) could be the most significant Public order initiative in a decade.

    Dunne, ‘defends democracy’ now, being on the receiving end of his e-mails read without consent.

    The Nats sure are feeding a lot of Bills through under urgency; did you know it has taken three years for the The Companies and Limited Partnerships Amendment Bill to come to reading since Power first got approval from cabinet. Guess if businesses were smoking cigarettes in their tax-havens, progress might have been hastier.

    Poor old Owen Glenn- guilty, “no contest”. “Abuse thrives in the lack of transparency”_Neville Robertson.

    What has happened to Dr Pita (take this taiaha from my cold dead hands) Sharples?-“need to clean us up or we’re down the tubes”, yet “been hearing discontent from the grass-roots since January”.Hone contends that there is bitterness among some maori about the path Sharples took the party down.

    Australian pollie receives typical Ocker abuse for taking oath of office on the Quran.
    (wait ’til the Islamic unrest does roll out on their shores).

    Get some Ultra-Fast Fibre in your diet, you are only as young as you think, “Dont Date Robots”.

    -the Residium.

    Check out the Sustainable Vehicle (electric) supplied to Kapiti Council for rubbish collection.

  17. yeshe 17
    3 July 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Metiria Turei battled it out, and won, against Speaker David Carter this afternoon. She was brave and formidable .. and Carter is a seriously unimpressive and clearly not non-partisan.

    Congratulations, Metiria and the Greens … will post a link unless someone can find it first. Do try to see it.

  18. Rogue Trooper 18
    3 July 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Louis Althusser (1918-1990).” The most influential Marxist philosopher in the 1960’s and 1970’s. He produced a novel form of Marxism by attempting to integrate into it the dominant ideas of structuralism, in sharp contrast to the Hegelian and humanist interpretations of Marx that had gained prominence in the two decades following the second World War.

    The ‘later’ Marx, according to Althusser, had inaugurated a new type of philosophy which underlay his social scientific analysis. This dialectical materialism was above all, a theory of knowledge. In distinctly neo-Kantian vein, Althusser saw the task of philosophy as the creation of concepts which were a pre-condition for knowledge (though, I wouldn’t include Russell’s ‘logical atomisms’). He insisted on the strict separation of the object of thought from the real object. Knowledge working on it’s own object was a specific form of practice, of which Marxist philosophy was the theory.

    When applied to society, the result of this epistemology was the ‘science’ of historical materialism. Each of the instances of society- economics, politics, ideology- was a structure united within a structure of structures. The complex and uneven relationship of the instances to each other was called by Althusser a ‘conjuncture’. Every conjuncture was said to be ‘overdetermined’ in that each of the levels contributed to determining the structure as well as being determined by it: determination was always complex. This structured causality resulted in a reading of history as process without subject- as opposed to the tendency of , for example, Sartre or the early Marx to see human beings as the active subjects of the historical process.

    Althusser’s account of Marx. in particular the concept of the problematic and it’s insistence on the relative autonomy of the sciences, was a good antidote both to all types of reductionism and to extreme forms of Hegelian Marxism.

    It does, however contain weaknesses, which Louis re-emphasized by revealing the superficiality of his approach in his autobiography.
    -It’s status as a reinterpretation of what Marx actually said is dubious; since any recourse to a real object is ruled out, it is difficult to establish what the criterion of scientificity could be.
    -Since the science of dialectical materialism is cut off from the social formation, Althusser fails to provide a satisfactory account of the relation of theory to practice.

    Yep.

    • Rosetinted 18.1
      3 July 2013 at 5:33 pm

      Rogue T
      You sure know how to stretch a reader’s mind. Probably into next week. It’s an antidote to the interchange of – The polls are looking better, no they aren’t. Yes.. if you take in the co-efficient of the matrix, and allow for the symbolic effect of the GFC hegemony and other acronyms. Well that is obviously just wishful thinking and totally off…

    • NickS 18.2
      3 July 2013 at 9:32 pm

      Personally – Marx and Engels analysis failed because it didn’t have access to the statistical tools needed to sanity check economic systems. Pretty close to the mark though, but there’s still an annoying habit by some readers to take it all as writ in stone. Despite numerous scholars and practical implementations of communism showing that Marxism and spawn had high mutability and poor fits to some human systems.

      (note – this unit’s encounters with Marx et al are mostly surface material, didn’t really encounter it within areas of study, not even in philosophy of science)

      Bloody interesting stuff though 😛

  19. Rogue Trooper 19
    3 July 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Sam Judd on NIMBYism

    • weka 19.1
      3 July 2013 at 11:11 pm

      hmmmm, yeah, nah. Most people I know opposed to deep sea oil drilling around NZ would be more than happy to transition to non-fossil fuels now. And if the hippies didn’t drive to protests, there wouldn’t be any (some even ride a bike or ride share). He’s trying to make a valid point, but he doesn’t do it in a very useful way and he too often focussed on the wrong targets. Gotta provide some solutions if you want the masses to change. Having a go at them for being hypocrites doesn’t work (we’re all hypocrites when it comes to the environment).

  20. Winston Smith 20
    3 July 2013 at 4:13 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/8870253/Living-wage-more-costly-than-expected

    Oops a diasy, still thats what happens when you borrow Labours calculator…

    • Colonial Viper 21.1
      3 July 2013 at 8:35 pm

      Why are you supporting a measure which will increase thefts, home invasions and burglaries?

      You righties are really stupid on this shit.

      • NickS 21.1.1
        3 July 2013 at 9:56 pm

        Main effect would be to make it more difficult to track them actually, as people on the run from the law (that get caught) make use of their bank account…

        Plus the costs (work hours, stuff ups) of doing this probably out weighs any benefit.

        • Colonial Viper 21.1.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 12:03 am

          Hmmmm doesn’t seem to stop proposals for car park and ipad taxes…

    • Draco T Bastard 21.2
      4 July 2013 at 12:11 pm

      Taxpayers overwhelmingly say they don’t want to fund people to actively avoid the Police…mz bennett

      Strange, I don’t recall being asked.

  22. Brett Dale 22
    3 July 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Most boring speech ever, heck you guys thought he would go after key, didnt quite happen huh.

    Sorry guys, maybe next time.

  23. Brett Dale 23
    3 July 2013 at 5:27 pm

    The GCSB was around in helen clark’s day? anyone complain then?

  24. yeshe 24
    3 July 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Oh dear .. the mic was live when it picked up what seemed to be John Banks saying to Slippery Key ” If we had given him ( as in Kim Dotcom) any more time, it would have ended in abuse”. ( Or was it Tony Ryall ?)

    If anyone doubted how slippery Slippery is, trhen please listen to this committee hearing. I love that Mr Dotcom challenged Key eye-to-eye on his lying … we owe a lot to this brilliant German Kiwi resident. Thank you, thank you for exposing these inequities in the GCSB.