Open mike 03/08/2010

52 comments on “Open mike 03/08/2010 ”

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1. Tiger Mountain 1

   3 August 2010 at 6:47 am

   The oft repeated line about John Key-“I have principles, if you don’t like them, well I have others…’ looks like acquiring further connections to real life with Key not ruling out working with NZF this time around.
   • Bored 1.1

     3 August 2010 at 7:47 am

     We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious…….Yes, precious, false! They will cheat you, hurt you, LIE.
   • joe bloggs 1.2

     3 August 2010 at 9:22 am

     speaking of principled leadership did you hear the one about the Labour leader who said he was quite relaxed about workers cashing in some of their holidays, then denied it completely ten days later?

     Radio Sport on 20 July 2010
     What about cashing in some of your holidays for money?

     PHIL GOFF: Well, I don’t have huge objections to that, as long as the decision is freely arrived at by the worker, and the worker is not pressured to do it. If you’ve got that safeguard in, then if somebody chooses to do that, then I’m quite relaxed about it

     Q+A Aug 1 2010
     You stated that you were relaxed about selling, or the government’s plans to allow workers to sell the fourth week of their holidays. Um, you don’t stand by that any more, do you?

     Phil Goff: No, what I said was of a range of things that the government is legislating for that will hurt the interests of ordinary working New Zealanders, that’s lower down my list of priorities

     Some people can’t even lie straight in bed
     • Tiger Mountain 1.2.1

       3 August 2010 at 9:48 am

       gfy bloggs, the relevant bit is “as long as the decision is freely arrived at by the worker, and the worker is not pressured to do it’.

       There is a difference between changing position on new information or after having to spoken to more people as a situation develops, and the hardwired entrenched opportunism demonstrated by Shonkey. Johhny can’t remember his position on the 81 Tour? yeah right.
       • joe bloggs 1.2.1.1

         3 August 2010 at 10:56 am

         changing position on new information or after having to spoken to more people as a situation develops Hilarous!

         Nup – what you’re seeing is a party leader being steam-rolled by the unions who have reminded him that they set industrial relations policy not the leader.

         Goff’s back-pedalling is symptomatic of the leadership vacuum created by Clark’s exit.

         What’s next? Industrial action to strong-arm Labour back into power?
         • lprent 1.2.1.1.1

           3 August 2010 at 11:35 am

           The numbskull speaks yet again…. You poor pathetic little wanker – jerking off in public yet again.

           One of the characteristics of a broad based political party is that people do have differing opinions, and they argue about them. The resulting compromises become policy. Phil doesn’t set party policy any more than I do, although he’d probably have more influence on the outcomes.

           It is only the RWNJ idiots (such as yourself) who believe that the ‘leaders’ have all of the answers.
     • The Voice of Reason 1.2.2

       3 August 2010 at 9:55 am

       Did you hear about the one about commenter who couldn’t read, Joe? He made something up, then added two quotes that completely disproved his own assertion.

       National are bringing in a dozen negative changes to emp;loyment law, of which the ‘selling your leave’ provision is the one that least concerns Phil Goff. It’s not hard to understand that the other attacks in the list of changes are more directly concerning to him and working kiwis, is it?
     • lprent 1.2.3

       3 August 2010 at 11:37 am

       The numbskull speaks again… This time showing strong level of incomprehension in reading English.

       Read what he said. The two statements aren’t inconsistent.

       I’m surprised that you were capable of doing a copy-paste. Did someone help you?
       • joe bloggs 1.2.3.1

         3 August 2010 at 3:00 pm

         come come Lindsay, even you would appreciate the irony of Goff’s flip flop on this
   • Rex Widerstrom 1.3

     3 August 2010 at 4:12 pm

     Not just ruling in NZF but blowing kisses to Lhaws.

     Depths to which Key won’t stoop = none.
2. Cnr Joe 2

   3 August 2010 at 8:09 am

   Harawira you brown mofo
   stealing all our prejudices…..
3. Pascal's bookie 3

   3 August 2010 at 8:29 am

   Pretty graph:

   http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/28/where-did-the-money.html

   96.

   That’s a lot of percents.
4. jcuknz 4

   3 August 2010 at 8:36 am

   A cautionary note from Paul Krugman
   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/02/opinion/02krugman.html?th&emc=th
   One can only hope that it will not be like that. Though some will say it is already here in NZ.
   • vto 4.1

     3 August 2010 at 9:27 am

     Sad but true jkcunz. A result of two things imo;

     1. The thunderingly ridiculous amount of power slowly but steadily expropriated by the state. This has led to a near-terminal disconnect between those holding the offices of state, and the people. The left, with its focus on the state as the saviour to every ill, has unfortunately been one of the main contributors to this problem.

     2. The revolution which is well underway. Not the revolution in the standard sense but a revolution like the agricultural revolution and the industrial revolution. People are no longer needed to make things (industrial revolution). We are leaving that age and entering a new one, with all the associated upheaval (people left behind etc).
     • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1

       3 August 2010 at 4:04 pm

       1.) The facts show that “privatisation” rather than the “state” has put us in this position.
       2.) We’re running out of resources (especially oil) and so there probably is a “revolution” going on but it’s not likely to be the one you think it is.
5. joe bloggs 5

   3 August 2010 at 8:47 am

   http://www.thestandard.org.nz/two-peas-from-a-pod/#comment-237638

   while I am a member of the Labour party, I am not the Labour party

   and therein lies the dilemma facing the ant – a tiny individual within a superorganism, operating as a unified entity, collectively working together to support the colony; each ant an individual capable of operating independently of the whole, capable of asserting its individuality, yet enslaved by the collective…

   … speaking of pheromones and body chemistry, the halls of the Labour caucus must be reeking right now over the Carter affair.

   – Mighty Phil 5% Goff trailing a testosterone laden cloud
   – alpha dog Andy Little snarling ‘cos Te Atatu backs Carter
   – the caucus wolf pack baying that Carter’s unwell, unwell
   – the lad himself off for a two month holiday at the expense of the taxpayers

   all for pointing out in a rather gauche manner what everyone knows is the real oil – Goff ain’t got a show.

   So why can’t Labour support people who develop mental health issues, rather than persecute them for political gain?
   • lprent 5.1

     3 August 2010 at 11:30 am

     The numbskull speaks again… And gets it wrong yet again…

     Of course I have influence, both inside the party, and from outside through places like this site. However I don’t speak for the party which is what you were implying.
     • joe bloggs 5.1.1

       3 August 2010 at 2:51 pm

       so my mathematically challenged buddy, I ask again – why can’t Labour support people who develop mental health issues, rather than persecute them for political gain?
       • The Voice of Reason 5.1.1.1

         3 August 2010 at 5:13 pm

         Labour is supporting Carter, not persecuting him.

         The party leadership has allowed the internal process to be put on hold at his request. His local committee has also been publicly supportive. Caucus has expelled him, but what other choice did they have? His actions were reprehensible, disloyal and clearly unacceptable to his fellow MP’s, or for that matter, any Party’s caucus. But that isn’t persecution, it’s a natural consequence of being caught doing something grossly unprofessional.

         All in all, Labour’s response is measured, respectful and fair in the circumstances. By way of contrast, National believe in sacking workers for no reason at all. At least Labour are trying to do the right thing by Carter, even if he doesn’t seem to be able to the right thing by them.
         • William Joyce 5.1.1.1.1

           3 August 2010 at 6:43 pm

           Having been in such a state as Chris appears to be I suspected that he wasn’t well. Mentally ill in the sense that a car engine can get “ill” if it runs too fast, too long.
           Unable to handle criticism, running from the media, making irrational & paranoid statements, getting obsessive and fixated, distorting reality etc etc.
           He needs to take a break and cool, down and get some perspective.
           It is perhaps coincidental that it is also in his interests and political advantageous to him & Lab take a break, let the media storm die, let the internal Lab Party process happen in a more dispassionate way.
           Of course Key is going to doubt it, even if he believes it or not (& who knows wtf Key believes), as it means hecan lay in the boot to the man on the ground.
           Having been there I am prepared to give in the benefit of the doubt and allow him a chance to rehabilitate himself with a mia culpa.

           Awaiting more info & developments………
   • Draco T Bastard 5.2

     3 August 2010 at 4:06 pm

     The ant, just like humans, is incapable of surviving alone.
6. Armchair Critic 6

   3 August 2010 at 9:46 am

   And following on from Nick Smith’s genius plan that will make getting resource consents more expensive, Gerry Brownlee acknowledges that his plan to make the electricity market more efficient could actually increase electricity prices.
   Increased electricity prices for the sake of your ideology? – Gee, thanks Gerry.
   • vto 6.1

     3 August 2010 at 9:53 am

     Yeah, what the hell is that about?

     Gerry should have gone and got some experience in buying and selling stuff before trying to apply his hand to these things. The fool has no experience.
     • Armchair Critic 6.1.1

       3 August 2010 at 9:57 am

       To be fair, he hasn’t said prices will rise as a result, just that they could.
       You are right, though, he should have gone and got some real world experience, rather than hoping it woodwork.
     • Armchair Critic 6.1.2

       3 August 2010 at 10:06 am

       On an entirely different subject, how angry are you about CPW continuing with their plans?
       • vto 6.1.2.1

         3 August 2010 at 10:24 am

         Yes well I would be repeating myself again, but that link to the plight of people who are having their homes and livelihoods forcibly removed so that their neighbours can make more money has certainly raised the blood temperature again.

         Allowing CPW to become a Requiring Authority goes completely and utterly against the NZ grain. It is disgusting.

         This aspect of the CPW scheme is something that I think will linger on and on and on. It has the most ferocious of bad smells. And the farmers who take advantage of their neighbours in this manner will almost certainly suffer the effects of karma for many many many years to come. A blight upon their lands….

         I feel so very sorry for those families who are made to suffer like this by their neighbours.

         As to CPW continuing… it is being appealed by countless parties, including CPW themselves. A few more years yet in and out of courts. Though as wrong as it is imo, the scheme will come to fruition (why else would fonterra and synlait proceed with plans for processing plants in the heart of the proposed irrigation area).

         The Canterbury Plains are being sacrificed to industry and money.
         • Pascal's bookie 6.1.2.1.1

           3 August 2010 at 4:19 pm

           Does that ‘squattocracy’ word still kick around down there?

           Although for the first residents of this here land, this:

           … having their homes and livelihoods forcibly removed so that their neighbours can make more money has certainly raised the blood temperature again.

           Allowing CPW to become a Requiring Authority goes completely and utterly against the NZ grain. It is disgusting.

           holds a certain wtf? style of irony. In that this country was built on forcibly removing people from their homes and livelihoods so that their neighbours can make more money, amirite?
           • vto 6.1.2.1.1.1

             3 August 2010 at 9:05 pm

             true p’s b true. Irony noted.

             so where does that lead us to?
             • Armchair Critic …

               3 August 2010 at 9:13 pm

               Yeah, I’m still waiting for two wrongs to make a right.
         • NickS 6.1.2.1.2

           3 August 2010 at 11:39 pm

           Hey, did you see Bazley’s moronic claim in The Press that “Canterbury had plenty of water”?

           I take it Bazley’s ignoring NIWA’s long term climate predictions, along with ecological data on river health that informs the minimum acceptable flow rates, nor considered any other river and lake users other than dairy and irrigation intensive crop farmers. And don’t forget either aquifer water replenishment rates, for which if we don’t want to run out of aquifer derived water, the commissioners really should get that sorted fully before changing prior aquifer rights set up cautiously by ECan. Otherwise there will be a full revolt in Christchurch and other towns reliant on the Canterbury Plains aquifer for drinking water if it’s degraded or lost.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.2

     3 August 2010 at 4:07 pm

     Ah, NACT costing us more for no benefit whatsoever.

     Yep, that sounds like the incompetence that we’ve come to expect from these no-nothings.
7. prism 7

   3 August 2010 at 10:06 am

   Thoughts from listening to Radionz this am
   Parihaka has entered my consciousness and that of most pakeha – now Te Urewera enters beside it for infamy by our colonial unprincipled, authoritarian government.

   A report on the Indian Games preparations ended with the word “CORRUPTION” and then a wrong voice comment was played starting with “the Central plains water authority”. Synchronisity what! Or Freudian slip from our advanced machines absorbing knowledge like the robot Joe 5?
   Info –
   Of all the land in New Zealand that is irrigated, over 70% is in Canterbury (2006 report) from http://www.cpwl.co.nz/home/irrigation.html
   and
   24 November 2005 – Central Plains Water Limited is given requiring authority status by the Minister for the Environment, (David Benson-Pope under a Clark government preceded by Marian Hobbbs according to Wikipedia) meaning it may apply to the Minister of Land Information to compulsorily acquire private land
   from – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Plains_Water_Enhancement_Scheme_Timeline

   On private entities granted government powers to compulsorily acquire land –
   A requiring authority has the ability to apply to local councils to set aside land that it needs to set up infrastructure such as road, rail, energy or water. It can also apply to the Minister of Land Information to use the ability to acquire land.
   There are more than 120 network utility operators who have been granted requiring authority status since 1991 including four irrigation companies Barrhill Chertsey Irrigation Limited, South Canterbury Waterways Limited, Doubtless Bay Water Supply Company Limited and North Otago Water Harvesting and Irrigation Company Limited.
   Link http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0511/S00355.htm
   Other info
   http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/pm-says-yes-central-plains-water-scheme
8. Pete 8

   3 August 2010 at 10:59 am

   He’s got to be taking the piss, right?:
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3984399/Key-questions-whether-Carter-unwell

   “He didn’t look very sick to me last week. He looked fairly exercised about the fact that he didn’t think Phil Goff could win an election, but he didn’t look terribly sick”

   – coz ‘sickness’ is only demonstrated by being in bed with a ‘flu or something…

   Now I understand why some less commentors from the right of the spectrum don’t get why people in need get sickness and invalid’s benefits for things other than disability etc. Cameron Slater could be an advocate for this to Key et al surely.
   • prism 8.1

     3 August 2010 at 11:21 am

     What a snide side Clueless Key shows in commenting on Carter’s ‘sick leave’ (with a sneer and a gloat in his voice). He ought to remember (if his political memory goes that far) that Nick Smith had to have stress leave too . It’s a bit like mental tag westling up there at the Beehive and all might sometimes fall to the canvas, even you King John.

     There were political and leadership struggles at the time that Nick Smith took time out too. This from Wikipedia –
     Smith was appointed to the position of deputy leader, presumably to placate members of the English camp. He took up this position on 28 October 2003. Soon, however, he was challenged from within the party on the basis of his behaviour after his elevation, which critics described as “irrational” and “paranoid”. Smith’s defenders said that the claims were exaggerated, and that Smith was merely suffering from stress and exhaustion. Smith returned to Nelson on “stress leave”.
     • Tigger 8.1.1

       3 August 2010 at 12:38 pm

       Key has opinion on everything. Except the Tour. And anything controversial he hasn’t focus-grouped. And why Richard Worth was dumped.
   • BLiP 8.2

     3 August 2010 at 12:49 pm

     And what about that bloody Minister of Housing – didn’t he have a bit of meltdown? Fuck that John Key, fuck him and everyone that looks like him.
     • comedy 8.2.1

       3 August 2010 at 12:58 pm

       Shouldn’t you ask him on a date before you get down to business ?
       • William Joyce 8.2.1.1

         4 August 2010 at 11:48 pm

         No, I think he’ll be alright. I think Jonkey is described as an “every man”.
         Rumour, has it that it could also be seen as a goal.
9. Armchair Critic 9

   3 August 2010 at 11:43 am

   Did I read this right? School support budgets are to be bulk funded and privatised?
   Perhaps Question 9 today will provide a bit more information. Or, since it is a patsy question, perhaps not.
   • NickS 9.1

     3 August 2010 at 11:54 pm

     No to bulk funding, and sort of for privatising. Plus she is pushing open bidding for teacher development programs through, and reducing the money for supporting (the not likely to implemented) National Standards by adding this special needs school support in.

     Which really should have a separate budget, along with much clearer outlines for it targeting proven methodologies only. As when you open it up, there’s a good chance the pseudo-educators will run to the trough citing anecdote, upon anecdote…
10. Adrian 10

    3 August 2010 at 11:44 am

    Was Nick Smith really giving Hitler salutes to people at the time, as one news report indicated? At least Chris only pretended to be Postman Pat. And one Nat candidate had a meltdown at a hall meeting and wasn’t seen for more than a week during the 05 campaign, he got in tho, giving more creedence to the belief that they’d vote in a drovers dog with a blue ribbon.
11. prism 11

    3 August 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Comedy hour tomorrow morning on Radnz ninetonoon? John Key talking about the future of democracy (I thought I heard). (That’s me being snide and sneering.)

    But it’s a must hear. Don’t know exactly when, the usual preview for the week has failed to arrive and I can’t see mention on the site. Perhaps it’s a spur of the moment sort of thing. Great to hear our Dear Leader though.

    Anti-spam – tea (as in followed by a cup of)
12. prism 12

    3 August 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I’m interested as to why my comment is awaiting moderation? It’s been 21 minutes now for an innocuous post advising that John Key is speaking on RadNZ on Democracy.

    I’ve put three comments on Mike – on different topics and all three have useful facts or links in them as well as opinion. Is there a limit on how many topics one can enter on the Mike? I haven’t logged in. Is that the reason? What would have triggered moderation?
    • BLiP 12.1

      3 August 2010 at 12:52 pm

      Don’t stress, mate. How many links did you have in the comment – did you use one of the forbidden words like H1tler or something – could be a few things. Plus its lunchtime, the Standard’s deep underground bunker is probably unstaffed at the moment.

      [lprent: I’ve been getting some inter-process in-memory binary streaming working. But I just released a couple of comments from moderation for newbies. The first comment from a new e-mail address is always held for moderation. It stops the identity hoppers.

      Can’t recall anything from prism… Maybe another moderation has already released it. More likely to be links. ]
      • prism 12.1.1

        3 August 2010 at 7:32 pm

        There weren’t any links on the moderated post lprent. I had put in some in my previous posts for the day on Mike. I did mention Dear Leader, John Key and referred to Radnz and ninetonoon. Was I being corrected for using cronyisms, acronymisms or spelling? I also commented on the anti-spam being suitable – what have I done wrong – mea culpa for what it was.

        Was I being checked to find if I was a serial blogger about to commit another dastardly deed? I would like to know as I have to watch I don’t spend too much time on the site and get my things done. If what I write goes into limbo then I am not achieving anything. (Don’t know how you people manage to do all that you do.)

        [lprent: dear leader is in the abuse phrases. It has been well and truly abused over the years. So it is on the watch list. Try this search and you see what I mean. http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?s=Dear+Leader&isopen=block&search_comments=true&search_sortby=relevance ]

        PS This has gone into moderation again! What have I done to deserve this??
        • prism 12.1.1.1

          3 August 2010 at 10:00 pm

          Thanks for explaining. I presume this ruling was as a result of attacks on Helen Clark’s careful management of everything. Couldn’t the censorship be lifted now?
          • lprent 12.1.1.1.1

            4 August 2010 at 12:56 am

            Actually “Dear Leader” was used by almost all sides against almost everyone That included me when I was writing as AncientGeek (I separated the role of sysop and commentator until I was sure that people understood the rules).

            It went in the list of overused phrases that disrupted debate for a reason. Just use a phrase that means the same thing but has less baggage attached.
            • prism 12.1.1.1.1.1

              4 August 2010 at 9:26 am

              okey dokey
13. randal 13

    3 August 2010 at 12:58 pm

    and john key is still taking posthsots at chris carter as he leaves for the exotic pacific paradise of vanuatu to get his batteries recharged.
    so which spin factory dreamed this one up for him?
    which one payed off rnz to lead off every buletin with “disgraced mp chris carter” eh.
    how much does this sort of pr cost?
14. Policy Parrot 14

    3 August 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Phil needs to stop using the Keyism “I’m relaxed about it”.. He should use the Youngism (sic) “I’m bloody angry with [John] Key”

    Sure, try appear folksy, but too much is snake-tongued.
15. sukie Damson 15

    3 August 2010 at 3:57 pm

    An ICT lawyer, speaking in front of 480 business users at the CIO Summit, was brutally honest in expressing his views on the current state of the government-assisted ultra-fast broadband (UFB) plan.

    “UFB is a piece of shit. It’s a classic example of an ICT project which is going badly and also an initiative by the public sector which is going poorly.’

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1. The Standard: posted on 2 August 2010 at 6:13 pm

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