Open Mike 04/05/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 4th, 2018 - 221 comments
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221 comments on “Open Mike 04/05/2018 ”

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    • Ed 1.1
      4 May 2018 at 6:57 am

      That’s what happens when the rich don’t pay enough tax.

      • cleangreen 1.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 8:57 am

        Tony said rightly; “More funding shortfalls thanks to the nats.”

        That’s what happens when the National Party “divert funds to their preferences” (for nine long years) as they did with taking all funds ‘payable’ from road and rail maintenance costs away from the regions, and putting them into their ”
        pork belly “National roads of significance” playbook.

        Truly a bunch of modern day “Robbing hoods” aren’t they just?

      • Grafton Gully 1.1.2
        4 May 2018 at 9:31 am

        Some of what they don’t pay is spent on private health insurance premiums, retirement savings, private school fees, charitable donations and accomodation for adult family members, thereby reducing demand on the public purse.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1
          4 May 2018 at 1:44 pm

          None of which is any good for society.

          Private health takes resources away from the public health system and thus making it worse.
          Retirement savings are a scam – just like capitalism itself.
          Charitable donations never cover the full needs of society.

          We cannot afford the rich because they’re all bludgers.

          • Bewildered 1.1.2.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 2:37 pm

            😩

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.1.2.1.2
            4 May 2018 at 3:20 pm

            ah the rich vein of resentment that emanates from a bludger when they see someone doing better than themselves

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1.2.1
              4 May 2018 at 3:35 pm

              I’m not resentful of the bludgers – I’m angry.

              They’re stealing from us and government keeps supporting it.

            • North 1.1.2.1.2.2
              4 May 2018 at 7:20 pm

              Thanks for the tuppenny wank TS.

      • savenz 1.1.3
        4 May 2018 at 10:28 am

        And they import as many workers as possible to create a low wage economy and overload the welfare system with as many people all who qualify for subsidies, as possible to ‘stimulate demand’ for the private sector, such as building more prisons, privatising prisons, privatising healthcare, privatising charities, privatising welfare through private agencies, more roads, more houses, more PPP’s of ha ha ‘public’ transport…. etc IN short taking from the people and giving to corporations who are apparently the holy grail of a special type of community (who knew?).

        Unfortunately the government have not worked out that in previous times aka 19th and early 20c this government investment in infrastructure led to local jobs and local goods being used to service the economy. In the 21c this doesn’t happen anymore, you borrow money or increase taxes, but it’s just as likely to go offshore corporations and not provide many local jobs, instead create havoc by lowering wages, decreasing jobs for local workers who suffer, not buying local products, create havoc more houses needed, more hospitals, more health care to provide for all the new previously offshore but now onshore workers.

        Apparently government don’t keep any statistics and immigration is all based on arrival cards and what people decide to put on there. (likewise census). So I’m guessing if you are coming to NZ to work illegally as a stopper than you don’t exactly declare it… nor the people trafficking and so forth. Basically the government has no ways to even work out how many people are working illegally here or just using the welfare system under false names. How many people leave as soon as they obtain residency (clues are there is now a big amount of people going out of NZ). Migrants will behave the same way as Kiwi workers, if they are not paid enough or the opportunities are not there, they will leave as well… so it solves nothing to not look at the causes of skilled people leaving NZ.

        Maybe time the government gets some hard facts on what’s actually going on. How many babies being born and registered as NZ citizens, how many people are actually on welfare and is it after they gain their residency, how many people who have just moved here will be able to claim the pension in a decade or less. How many people leave once getting residency. The get somehow who actually knows what they are doing to get some predictions going.

        The original premise of migration in NZ was apparently to bring ‘young workers’ in to provide taxes for our aging population, but the story keeps changing, because now we seem to have a whole lot of young people who need WFF or social welfare if their relationship breaks up and elderly relatives and siblings seem to be able to come in as well, with a bit of creative paperwork. Skilled people can leave after gaining residency.

        All roads are leading to a huge change in NZ society and look at what’s happened overseas, it does not lead to a left wing government after excessive migration (either in or out, aka some countries have been left with not enough skilled people aka Poland and trying to get them back). It leads to social disruption, and right wing governments getting in if the left wing government denies there is an issue.

        And then those people paying taxes, are told, ‘pay more’, we also need more workers and more taxes to pay for the infrastructure of all the new workers.. the Ponzi continues

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3.1
          4 May 2018 at 1:48 pm

          Maybe time the government gets some hard facts on what’s actually going on.

          Weren’t you one of the ones complaining about the census? The most basic of tools the government uses to get some of those hard facts.

          • savenz 1.1.3.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 2:33 pm

            I’m complaining that the census and arrival/departure cards are based on what people choose to put in it and I think it’s time to look more at hard facts, like birth registration data, house and assets transfers, hospital and school records and welfare payments across all sectors from unemployment, WFF, super, DPB etc more in depth rather than relying on what people volunteer which is used as facts, to build a much more detailed picture of what happened in the last decade and how that is going to impact the country.

            • McFlock 1.1.3.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 2:51 pm

              You seem to be looking for one shop that does everything, whereas pretty much all your requested data is already gathered by different departments.

              People earning under the table are looked for by IRD, as well as companies fiddling books to pay the employees. Immigration officers look for overstayers or people in violation of their visas. Beneficiaries need id just to get into the bloody office, so it’s not like just putting a fake name on the form. IRD, WINZ and I believe a few other organisations all share data to detect frauds.

              All a one-stop-shop data shop would do is maximise the damage of a data breach. For what? What is the clear, simple and explicit objective you wish to achieve with this data collation?

            • Craig H 1.1.3.1.1.2
              4 May 2018 at 7:59 pm

              Stats NZ identified the issue with relying arrival cards a couple of years ago and have come up with a new report where they use Customs data to compare intentions with actions.

    • One Two 1.2
      4 May 2018 at 9:09 am

      11bn

      Number 11 featuring…again…

      11bn dollar holes…

    • Cinny 1.3
      4 May 2018 at 4:09 pm

      Do rightwingers in positions of power undervalue education because they feel threatened if people know too much, ie… dodgy dealings?

    • patricia bremner 2.1
      4 May 2018 at 7:40 am

      If we paid people unable to work the same way as pensioners, many problems could be solved. Taxation would even out anomalies of part time or full time work and it would replace the current pittance working for families etc.

  3. Ed 3
    4 May 2018 at 6:54 am

    When will a New Zealand journalist bother to challenge the Australian bankers about the obscene profits they loot out of this country every year?

    When are they going to state this is another failed market?

    • Ed 3.1
      4 May 2018 at 6:56 am

      Banking
      Insurance
      Power
      Oil

      Failed markets.
      That allow.
      Multinational corporations.
      To loot our country.

      Thanks Roger Douglas, John Key and Ruth Richardson.

      Friends of international finance.
      Traitors all to the ordinary citizens of this country.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 7:03 am

        Which of our power companies are multi nationals ed?

      • Nic the NZer 3.1.2
        4 May 2018 at 8:09 am

        Thanks also Michael Cullen, Bill English and Grant Robertson and every future finance minister who sits by while this carries on. Only Robertson may yet redeam himself…

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1
          4 May 2018 at 3:02 pm

          I don’t have any faith that Robertson will redeem himself. He’ll still support the capitalist plunder of the country.

      • mauī 3.1.3
        4 May 2018 at 8:12 am

        Here’s some related ones according to Guy McPherson too,

        Big Ag
        Big Ad (no relation)
        Big Pharma
        Big Energy

        • Kay 3.1.3.1
          4 May 2018 at 10:12 am

          Can we add Big Supermarket to that?
          granted Foodstuffs is NZ owned, but the duopoly that no government forever seems to have to balls to break up is responsible for unjustified extortion of basic food prices for the simple reason that they can. There is no “choice” for the vast majority of NZers where they get their food from and that extortion is a contributing factor to people not eating well, or enough.

          • mauī 3.1.3.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 6:48 pm

            Yeah that’s part of it too, possibly coming under a big food umbrella.

            Reminds me of the Hughs War On Waste doco from the UK, that looks at consumer waste and how the supermarkets play their part in it too. Can watch it here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3c4g04

      • Gosman 3.1.4
        4 May 2018 at 10:06 am

        How are any of those failed markets ?

        • cleangreen 3.1.4.1
          4 May 2018 at 4:05 pm

          Just look round the market man, now we see the cost of building products is now said to be 3 times the cost of Australian building supplies now and the cost per meter of building is four times higher according to a report i heard today on AM radio Duncan Garner.

          The Australian reporter said ( quote;) “we are being screwed”.

          Go look at the media releases on Australian building costs vs NZ costs.

      • Bewildered 3.1.5
        4 May 2018 at 2:41 pm

        Yes it was far better when everything was state controlled, the so called elite where those who had the various government licenses etc, no choice, no freedom, hey but every one had to put up with same shite, shoddy service, for god sake you could only get white bread, took 6 week to get a phone connected, could only move something by truck for 100 miles then had to rail ( good luck if it turned up at all or let alone in full) and needed permission to get 1000 dollars fix to go overseas on holiday but hey every one was equally miserable so all good however so all good

        • KJT 3.1.5.1
          4 May 2018 at 2:59 pm

          Where a nightwatchman could afford to own a large racing yacht. Almost all families were fed and housed adequately, you could support a family on one income, poverty almost non existent, it cost buggerall to play sports, to go tramping, swimming or exploring the back country. good medical care and education was cheap or free, weekends, and evenings, were free time, not only for a few rich, and we had one of the highest standards of living in the world.

          Terrible times, Indeed!

          • MikeS 3.1.5.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 4:00 pm

            You could by a decent, watertight, durable 3 bdrm house on a quarter acre in an Auckland suburb for less than 3 x your annual income.

            All the local kids (and quite a few of the adults) would play cricket, spotlight, etc together out in the street with no fear of getting run over.

            Milk cost 3 cents and was delivered to your door.

            People actually physically talked to one another. You knew all your neighbours.

            10 bucks an hour was a decent wage.

            Space Invaders.

            Bare feet.

            Bull Rush

            Sunday night double features at the local cinema. 40 cents a ticket.

            Nothing open on Sundays except the dairy.

            Nothing miserable about anything back then. Life was great and we appreciated how lucky we were.

            • Bewildered 3.1.5.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 10:09 pm

              Gotta agree that was my up bringing And I do think been a kid then was easier however the technology, choices, freedom you have today is fantastic but I do agree their are downsides and less certainty Irrespective give me today’s freedom and choice over the blandness and one size fits all of the pre 80s. The other thing that lifestyle was funded off the sheep backs where the uk brought all we had that all ended in the early 70s and we borrowed to maintain that lifestyle

              • Draco T Bastard …
                4 May 2018 at 11:49 pm

                give me today’s freedom and choice over the blandness and one size fits all of the pre 80s.

                What freedom?
                What choice?

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.5.2
          4 May 2018 at 3:10 pm

          We had plenty of freedom. Certainly more than we have today.
          The service was shoddy and is actually getting worse as more cowboys enter the market and drive down wages.
          Actually, it took three days to get a phone connected in most cases. Some took a little longer because we actually had to run the lines out first. Now, consider that in many places today it’s a six month wait and other places you can’t even get ADSL never mind fibre. Yeah, in telecommunications things have gone seriously backwards.
          Moving anything by truck for more than 50km is bad planning as it uses excessive resources. See, forcing freight onto the trains had nothing to do with protecting the trains and everything to do with limiting resource usage.
          Despite your complaints getting foreign exchange wasn’t really that hard. You just had to plan for it.

        • Ankerrawshark 3.1.5.3
          4 May 2018 at 7:23 pm

          Crap about white bread. My parents owned a dairy in the 60’s and you could get brown and also this chunky whole meal. But true food was a bit limited back then

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.2
      4 May 2018 at 5:36 pm

      New Zealand superfund makes a better return of its assets than the Aussie bankers. Shall we ask them to explain at the same time?

      • In Vino 3.2.1
        4 May 2018 at 7:53 pm

        No, because they have not been accused of malpractice. They are just fortunate that the heralded crash has yet to occur, and shares have generally risen. Tuppence reflects the value of your contribution this time. (And others, I suspect.)

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.2.1.1
          5 May 2018 at 2:32 pm

          Ed made no mention of their practices, just the nationalistion of their profits. Nz superfund repatriates it’s off shore profits. How would we feel about those being nationalised by a foreign country

          • In Vino 3.2.1.1.1
            6 May 2018 at 7:07 pm

            Personally, I would fully sympathise with the foreign country. I have no time for profit-gougers – those whom Bernard Shaw correctly called the Idle Rich.

  4. Jenny 4
    4 May 2018 at 8:38 am

    ‘

    The Tears of Hine Hukatere

    A love story

    Hine was a snow maiden who fell in love with Wawe, a warm-blooded man. Every time they touched, his warm hands would melt her frozen skin, so Hine, an experienced mountaineer, took Wawe up the mountain to see Aorangi, the frozen son of the sky father Rakinui, for guidance. Wawe had been forbidden from climbing the mountain and was blown off the edge by a vengeful Tāwhirimātea, the God of wind, sending Wawe plunging to his death. Hine Hukatere wept for Wawe, and her tears froze as they dripped down the valley forming what many now call Franz Josef glacier.

    “Yet each man kills the thing he loves, by each let this be heard,
    Some do it with a bitter look, some with a flattering word,
    The coward does it with a kiss, the brave man with a sword!
    Some kill their love when they are young, some kill it when they are old;
    Some strangle it with the hands of Lust, some with the hands of Gold:
    The kindest use a knife, because, the dead so soon grow cold.
    Some love too little, some too long, some sell, and others buy;

    Some do the deed with many tears

    And some without a sigh

    Related comments:

    Spider 16

    A love story

    Return of the King

    Redemption, Triumph, Love. This story has it all

  5. Rosemary McDonald 5
    4 May 2018 at 8:59 am

    Typical mean spiritedness from Ministry of Health Disability Support Services at calls for funding for carbon fibre splints to support normal gait and reduce falls and musculoskeletal issues in those with disabilities.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/health/news/article.cfm?c_id=204&objectid=12007443

    They, the Miserly of Health,really have no concept at all of ‘investment’ when it comes to disability, especially when it comes to funding equipment that has the potential to transform lives. And the difference with this technology is akin to the old ‘brick’ mobile phones being promptly ditched for pocket sized tech. Only fools would continue to use the old when the new is so much better for the user.

    “”As technology improves over time and costs are likely to come down, there may be the ability to consider funding this type of technology in the future,” said Toni Atkinson, the ministry’s group manager of disability support services.”

    And this lot seem unable to do cost benefit analyses….higher initial cost offset by lower downstream costs….foreign concept.

    And god forbid they fund new technologies that enable people to go out into their communities with confidence.

    Because that would mean that seeing more people with disabilities out and about would be normal….

    NB…it is my understanding that this technology is funded by our lucky cousins on ACC.

    • alwyn 5.1
      4 May 2018 at 10:00 am

      Like the scrapping of funding reduced costs for funding visits to G’s I’m afraid.
      Anything to improve health funding has to be sacrificed to fund a years paid holiday for would be “students”.
      That and paying for the “Save New Zealand First” slush fund to make Shane Jones’ flights out of Kerikeri more comfortable.

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 10:10 am

        alwyn. Sigh. Seriously? Sighs again, and decides not to do the TS thing of blaming the Natz for everything.

        alwyn. The very least one should do before one comments is to read the post, maybe google the named persons and get a real sense of the history…

        Toni ‘what a wonderful job we’re doing for the disabled’ Atkinson has been group Manager at MOH:DSS since way, way before the latest election. She is the problem, as are her fellow MOH bureaucrats.

        The incumbents of the government benches are not in control here…this lot, or the previous lot….IMHO.

        • Stunned Mullet 5.1.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 10:58 am

          Quite true Rosemary, the MOH, PHARMAC and other health QANGOs with their assorted mandarins potter on in their usual way regardless of who’s sitting on the right hand side of the debating chamber.

    • crashcart 5.2
      4 May 2018 at 11:32 am

      My youngest son has Spina bifida and walks with the assistance of plastic AVO’s. We have to have these replaced ever 6 months or so due both to his growing and more importantly the fact that they just flat out can’t survive a 7 year old trying to run around at school for 6 months. I use try as they are also very limited in how much they do for him. They basically allow him to walk and try to run.

      Obviously I can’t say if these would suit his circumstances however with what the article describes the difference it would make to my boys life to actually be able to run around the play ground with the other kids would be huge. To play tag and not always be it because you are easy to catch and then can’t catch others.

      These sorts of things go beyond the initial cost. This sort of thing could help make going to school a far more enjoyable prospect for kids with disabilities.

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.2.1
        4 May 2018 at 11:52 am

        Hiya crashcart, and thanks for commenting and giving your input as someone who has the benefit of lived experience.

        “To play tag and not always be it because you are easy to catch and then can’t catch others.

        These sorts of things go beyond the initial cost. This sort of thing could help make going to school a far more enjoyable prospect for kids with disabilities.”

        Could someone put this before Clark or Genter please?

  6. cleangreen 6
    4 May 2018 at 9:00 am

    Labour’s positive changes coming for RMA to reverse the ‘rot ‘that national intentionally changed to benefit the rich investors for profit and charging the public for cost for their ‘perceived right’ to plan their commercial ‘extensions’ instead of considering environmental consideration and charging all investigative and legal costs to the taxpayer. and away from their rightful costs.

    Clever deceptive people weren’t National?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1805/S00034/change-to-eez-act-is-start-of-resource-management-reform.htm

    • Gosman 6.1
      4 May 2018 at 10:40 am

      And at the same time they will somehow be able to get more houses to be built to solve the housing crisis – Yeah right.

    • savenz 6.2
      4 May 2018 at 10:42 am

      Super important to change RMA to give long term environmental risks much more importance, if we don’t, we turn into a polluted little back water, with a brigade of Bill n John’s truck stops… I’ve always thought we were working towards a Thailand type system… luxury overseas owned tourist ventures, with sewerage in the streets and cheap drugs with Los Angeles transport and large houses and a Phillipines type overseas population of workers escaping for better wages. But I’m not sure that government/business vision is a good one.

      • Gosman 6.2.1
        4 May 2018 at 12:06 pm

        Yeah and then see how housing costs increase even further.

        • savenz 6.2.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 1:16 pm

          Yes because I’d prefer another McMansion and MegaStore/Mall luxury hotel /conference centre, with the small price to pay of sewage in the beaches, dead native forests and lower wages for the economic workers…. many of whom have to be ‘bought’ in for our ‘skills’ shortages but also need additional housing and cars… to keep the Ponzi going strong.

          The other day, some recent migrant was caught having 3 babies concurrently to different women. That’s dedication to the cause…. imagine instead of 1 house 1 family, he now probably needs three houses to be supplied for his increasing brood … talk about increasing your own demand for housing…

          With this in mind I’m sure there are more practical ways to stop the housing crisis through legislation, than destroying our immediate environment with bizarre short term RMA, for the next generation.

          • solkta 6.2.1.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 1:18 pm

            Yes, obviously male immigrants should be sterilized at the border.

            • savenz 6.2.1.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 2:27 pm

              That imagination again, Solka. Someone give real examples of what is going on and you respond as usual without any sensible solution or even concern that that not be a good thing.

              Never mind, I think someone might have made something up about someone in government and we can all spend government time and media on that rather than what is actually going on and then pretend what is going on, is not happening.

              • solkta …
                4 May 2018 at 2:39 pm

                That’s because you talk such a load of shit where there is no actual discernible point. So one immigrant has gotten three women pregnant and you try to suggest from that that there is some kind of conspiracy – “That’s dedication to the cause”. Like WTF?

                You say he was caught. What law did he break? Is there really no NZ born men who have done this?

                • savenz …
                  4 May 2018 at 2:53 pm

                  I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy (as usual adding your own delusions), but we have a housing shortage and supposedly he’s got residency because he’s helping solve that??

                  And nope not broken any laws apparently immigration are fine with that, my guess only came to light due to the women going on a benefit and being investigated for fraud, which says a lot about who we think are the fraudsters in this country.

                  If you can’t see the relationship between more people and the effects on the housing crisis then that says more about your intellectual capacity… and your sense of justice seems more like a market driven one, oh Kiwi’s can do it, lets roll with that, the more the merrier having loads of concurrent kids …. if you were not a part time champion of the Greens (scary enough), you could easily be an ACT supporter.

                  • solkta …
                    4 May 2018 at 3:01 pm

                    “oh Kiwi’s can do it, lets roll with that,”

                    and there we have your prejudice oozing out. You seem to be saying that we should have one set of rules and expectations for those who were born here and another for immigrants. Clearly you have no respect for human rights or natural justice.

                    Not sure how valuing such would make me an Act supporter.

          • Gosman 6.2.1.1.2
            4 May 2018 at 1:29 pm

            I just want to see more houses built. I don’t care about their size particularly.

        • savenz 6.2.1.2
          4 May 2018 at 2:29 pm

          Sounds like there’s property in Queenstown if you have $30 million. I don’t think we have any issues building houses, it seems more how the resources are being allocated and for whom, that might be the issue of shortages.

  7. Ad 7
    4 May 2018 at 9:22 am

    The Labour-led government invests $100 million to combat homelessness, and launches it on the same marae that took in hundreds and hundreds of people last winter:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12044775

    Makes me feel good paying taxes for that one.

    • savenz 7.1
      4 May 2018 at 10:48 am

      Yes, it is good they are doing something, big plus for Labour led government. But are they looking at the changes in government policy under the Natz that have led to this massive rise in homelessness in particular over the past 6 years?

      • Ad 7.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 11:27 am

        Are you aware of the government’s housing policies?

        Go have a read. There have been a few announcements this year on that topic if you go through the Beehive site.

        • savenz 7.1.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 11:53 am

          I’m more interested in policy that stops the homelessness happening in the first place. Increased wages and conditions that can provide a decent living not an increasing number of workers scrounging for benefit top ups because you can’t survive on wages, bigger focus on kids and education which is having the next generation of kids having skills, mental health and ability to cope, morals , decency for all, entrepreneurship and so forth, not having them scared out of their wits that someone is going to gun them down or a tree falls over and some private course will save them, also having little provision of them in the work force due to their lack of experience… a tax system that helps people who live in NZ and pay taxes here, not actually encouraging undercutting through offshore completion with lower wages and conditions and materials, having a decent retirement for people who lived and worked in NZ for most of their lives… a housing market that is not skewed by allowing people who don’t live here/pay full taxes here to invest here as though they do live here, a focus of quality exports, not cheap ones and making sure that Kiwis can afford their own quality food and buy a house and it is not all exported off for wealthier people, while through loopholes residents are expected to pay to support overseas families lifestyles (or in the case below, employers low wages), while not actually being able to afford a lifestyle of their own.

          It’s not even about the money, so much as the rot it’s causing in society when people become commoditised.

          This is an increasing type of employer. A ex Serbian man killed while working as a security guard probably on minimum wages with minimal training. When the union offered courses the company who employed him declined saying, I will just hire someone who already has the qualification. Companies whose prime motivation is profits, increasingly seem to see their employees as disposable commodities and when things go wrong the tax payer will clean up the mess, financially as well as socially and the family just suck up the death. Meanwhile another low paid, untrained worker will only be too willing to take his place in the race to the bottom.
          http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/union-hits-out-at-security-firm-after-guard-s-death.html

          • solkta 7.1.1.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 11:58 am

            How will increased wages solve the housing crisis? Won’t more income just push prices higher?

            You don’t mention housing policy. As Ad asks, are you aware of the government’s housing policies?

            • savenz 7.1.1.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 12:45 pm

              Of course income won’t push house prices higher. House prices are driven by demand. Demand comes from immigration, tourism, more people coming to live in NZ either permanently or temporality.

              The cost of building a house is astronomical. The profit driven free market NZ system has created a monster when every step you take is a rout of profiteering.

              That is why people concentrate on land creation for profit. Why would you build when it is so risky and you can just get the council to re zone your land and create massive value aka with rezoning land can go from 1 million to 30 million overnight. It’s free money created out of nothing. Natz love it. Council love it (more rates).

              Building is a different kettle of fish because so much more can go wrong and profiteering is even more rife. You then have to provide the infrastructure as well and if you have not bothered to do that before consenting then you start getting big problems with pollution.

              The numbers don’t work for Labour’s housing. I mean every day we hear how they need to import hundreds of people into NZ which of course takes up housing adding to demand. Even the hospitality people are jumping up and down these days about demand. I’m sure unemployed people/students/single parents could manage to be trained to wait a table or pour a drink, but no apparently hospitality also suffer severe ‘skilled’ sic. shortages!

              As soon as immigration wanes, housing prices stop going up. Already happened in Auckland, the rapid increases have slowed with Labour getting in.

              Labour have built 18 affordable houses so far. Good on them, but seriously when they go to ballot what is going to happen if 1/2 of them go to new migrants while long term tax paying Kiwi workers miss out? And if the migrants miss out people like the banned Wei will be up in arms too, as discrimination. What happens to the million+ residents who are renters?

              Personally think all the taxpayer housing should be kept under taxpayer control and rented out with provisions in place so the Natz can’t sell them off when they next get in.

              This is a moral question and there is no right answer, but in the interests of fairness or perception of fairness, I think the government will have a problem when the affordable houses start being divvided out on who gets them.

              As soon as government bumps up wages to living levels aka $20p/h and removes zero hour contracts on jobs that are not casual aka fast food/supermarket/service stations then more people will be able to afford rents.

              Rents are governed by what it costs to build a house and pay to maintain it. There is a massive discrepancy between wages and the price of building a house/buying a house/renting a house. Adding more houses is not going to solve that especially if you are adding more people into NZ than the new houses. Even if you add massive amount of new houses, where are the higher paid jobs for the people???

            • cleangreen 7.1.1.1.1.2
              4 May 2018 at 4:13 pm

              solkta; – “Was you aware of national’s ‘housing policies” – you know the one that failed us all?

              • solkta …
                4 May 2018 at 4:17 pm

                Not sure what your point is.

                • andrew murray …
                  4 May 2018 at 5:32 pm

                  he or she probably assumes your continual nasty invective is most commonly connected to a J Key Nat supporter. I, however, think your just another nasty 3rd way-er overly invested in neoliberal identity politics.

                  • solkta …
                    4 May 2018 at 6:11 pm

                    I’m a “3rd way-er” now am I? I’ll add it to the collection.

                    So funny the labels that get thrown at you here just for challenging something stupid that someone said.

    • The Chairman 7.2
      4 May 2018 at 2:07 pm

      Seeing as Housing First providers manage the tenancies and the properties but don’t actually supply the homes, would it be correct to assume that out of the $63 million going to be given to Housing First, not a cent will be going to increase our housing supply?

  8. phantom snowflake 8
    4 May 2018 at 10:58 am

    Saliva testing bill drawn from parliamentary ballot
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/356560/saliva-testing-bill-drawn-from-parliamentary-ballot

    The “Land Transport (Random Oral Fluid Testing) Amendment Bill” is a relic from last millennium’s War On Drugs, is deeply flawed, and should be binned. The presence of traces of a drug does not prove impairment!! The only regimes for drug testing of drivers which have any validity are those which involve blood testing and in which a limit has been set above which impairment is considered to be established. I’m a bit puzzled about the true intent of this bill. Is it Virtue Signalling? or is it a strike in a Class War of Social Conservatives Vs Drug Users??

    • Ad 8.1
      4 May 2018 at 1:00 pm

      The presence of a drug from urine tests in my industry is enough to have people marched off site. NZTA are continuing to roll out their anti-drug-driver campaigns for similar reasons to ours.

      Like yourself I’m not sure what a further legislated testing regime adds to this picture. The existing enforcements surely are enough.

    • james 8.2
      4 May 2018 at 2:47 pm

      Meh – dont do illegal drugs and it wont be a problem.

      • KJT 8.2.1
        4 May 2018 at 3:15 pm

        Don’t make people so devoid of hope for a better life, that they turn to drugs, or gambling, or alcohol, or borrowing from loan sharks.

        Fixed it for you.

        Have a look at Portugal or Iceland, if you really want to solve drug problems.

        Drug tests are another rort by a solution looking for a problem, Like the P house testing.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.2
        4 May 2018 at 3:22 pm

        Most illegal drugs are no worse than the legal ones.

      • phantom snowflake 8.2.3
        4 May 2018 at 4:58 pm

        The “illegal” part is often much more problematic than the “drugs” part. You appear to be self-identifying as the Social Conservative sub-species of Right Whinger; it must be sad for you that John Banks is but a distant memory…

        • phantom snowflake 8.2.3.1
          4 May 2018 at 5:25 pm

          Hmmm, I sound a bit grumpy there. Am usually reasonably goodnatured; it must have been a particularly inane comment…

    • Draco T Bastard 8.3
      4 May 2018 at 3:21 pm

      It’s National being their normal authoritarian selves and seeking to cut the fun that other people have in some belief that it will help employers.

    • One Two 8.4
      4 May 2018 at 9:34 pm

      DNA Database?

  9. Puckish Rogue 9
    4 May 2018 at 11:04 am

    Thats (one of) the problems with rumours, the speculation

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12043768

    • bwaghorn 9.1
      4 May 2018 at 12:18 pm

      Soper proves he’s to stupid to understand that if the nats scummy hench men had not spread lies then labour would not have had to deal with it .

      • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 12:22 pm

        The thing is i don’t believe any National MP had anything to do with this, after everything that went down Dirty Politics you’d have to be completely brain dead to think no one would make a connection between the rumours and the National party

        I suspect its either the non-affiliated National voter or (more likely) non-political trolls doing this

        • bwaghorn 9.1.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 12:30 pm

          I did say nat henchmen . the MPs are far to greasy to be caught at it first hand . you need to reread the dirty politics book to see how national operate

          • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 12:35 pm

            I don’t think theres any need for National and their “henchmen” for this kind of thing to happen.

            Theres always been rumours and innudendo only now, with social media, its much more easier to spread and to have people listen

            • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 1:06 pm

              Does that decrease your workload, or do folks just have higher expectations of your output?

      • Gabby 9.1.2
        4 May 2018 at 7:30 pm

        Soapy can’t moralise and pontificate if some rotten spoilsports go around quashing rumours.

    • Gabby 9.2
      4 May 2018 at 12:45 pm

      hurled link pucky?

  10. Ad 10
    4 May 2018 at 11:25 am

    Minister of Health David Clark puts the new hospital on the site of the Cadbury’s Building:

    https://www.odt.co.nz/in the South

    At over $1 billion this is the largest single build the South Island has had for a very long time.

    More taxpayer money well spent.

    • Stunned Mullet 10.1
      4 May 2018 at 11:40 am

      Disagree Ad – it beggars belief that a spend of what will likely be in the order of 2 billion for a population of 250 thousand is considered a good spend when there are far larger population centres in NZ that a proportion of this spend could be targeted to.

      It is long past time that NZ faced facts about trying to have a gold plated health service in every population centre.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 11:46 am

        Well presumably it will also include stuff for the university as well so not just a hospital

        • Ad 10.1.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 11:54 am

          Yes the Chancellor and vc is neck deep in ot.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 12:10 pm

            See I don’t mind this at all in fact its a good idea, much better to spend big money on something like this (something but useful and tangible) then something dumb like a free years study

            • Ad 10.1.1.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 1:12 pm

              About 25% of people in Dunedin are directly or indirectly employed by Otago University.

              The procuremement will be interesting because as a lead beneficiary of this investment I would expect the University to contribute substantially to the construction cost and fitout. After all the medical school and all the specialists who work between hospital and teaching and research have huge interdependencies.. And I would hope it is kept under very close surveillance by the Minister – just as Parker did with Americas Cup facilities in Auckland – to ensure that officials and planners don’t take the easy and cheap routes to success.

              The construction itself is going to be really interesting for a number of reasons:
              – at 4.4% headline unemployed where are we going to get the workers to build it? Construction workers with the skills to take on an entire hospital are few and far between here.
              – at almost 0% rental vacancy in Dunedin where are we going to put the workers, even if we can get them?

              The City of Dunedin itself will have some role to play as well to ensure that this isn’t just the largest single CAPEX to ever happen to the city; it should be a full spatial rejuvenation of the entire precinct. It will surely need a relaxation of their height rules to enable the long-needed hotel capacity into Dunedin. The have turned down multiple large high quality hotel projects there recently when they are sorely needed.

              I sure hope this procurement and the whole project demonstrates a once-a-century boost to the whole of Dunedin.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                4 May 2018 at 3:07 pm

                “I sure hope this procurement and the whole project demonstrates a once-a-century boost to the whole of Dunedin.”

                Couldn’t agree more

              • McFlock …
                4 May 2018 at 3:17 pm

                The hotel projects were all a bit shit. 27 glass storeys on the waterfront? Bugger that.

                I suspect it will be a bit like the stadium, where the university basically built the fourth wall as a separate building with their own stuff in it. The real issue will be whether they shift some of the anatomy/path folk down to a facility next to the hospital, as I think many of them are currently in varsity buildings across the road from the hospital (as well as some departments actually having facilities in the hospital itself).

                Then I suppose they can rip the asbestos out of the current hospital and turn it into a hotel. Everyone’s happy lol

              • KJT …
                4 May 2018 at 3:18 pm

                Because the stated “unemployment rate” is total bullshit, as we know.

                At least half the young people in Whangarei are unemployed, or in zero hours, or 90 day trial non jobs, for one.

                “Planet Key” statistics.

                • Bewildered …
                  4 May 2018 at 10:20 pm

                  Plenty of work available up north picking kumera if they want it according to one news

      • Ad 10.1.2
        4 May 2018 at 11:52 am

        You will be able to determine its plating once the design and coatings come out.

        If you have been a patient or visitor or medical professional to Dunedin Hospital you will understand.

        • Stunned Mullet 10.1.2.1
          4 May 2018 at 12:02 pm

          Ad I have been to Dunedin Hospital a number of times and agree it is in dire need of destruction and rebuild.

      • savenz 10.1.3
        4 May 2018 at 11:56 am

        trying to have a gold plated health service… yes because that is why we have a private system gaining a lot more traction…

        Funny though, US pay the most in the world for health care, but so many can’t afford health care, and American’s seem to be almost encouraged to be as unhealthy as possible through food choices and lifestyle, all putting $$$$ into private health.

        • Stunned Mullet 10.1.3.1
          4 May 2018 at 12:02 pm

          🙄

        • savenz 10.1.3.2
          4 May 2018 at 12:25 pm

          About time people understood ‘the markets’ is about profitability, morals don’t come into it.

          So a society based around ‘the free market’ can easily become a morally bankrupt, dysfunctional society because bad things tend to be just as profitable as good things.

          You need other measures such as environmental regulation, societal regulation such as human rights and so forth to try to keep the balance.

          Expecting social things like hospitals to make money creates stupidity of decision making. Such as at Middlemore hospital, government money was funded for extending buildings that housed things like meeting rooms for consultants (they could then artificially make a ‘profit’ on that not like the sick kids that returned a ‘loss’) while the mould and sewage in the children wards was not deemed worthy of government funding.

          Our problem is that we firstly don’t have a closed free market system so the theory is wrong straight away, we are also becoming less moral as a society (days of leaving door unlocked gone, full prisons, more stories of fraud), and also massive changes in legislation or the way it is applied under law, under the Natz has removed most of the regulation governing any sort of standard from human rights to environmental safeguards to tax law to resource/building consenting standards and norms.

          So fuck the markets. It’s one part of living a life, but unfortunately seems to have taken over and we are now in stupidity land of ideology of leadership/advice from free marketeers who stopped thinking practically years/maybe decades ago.

          • Bewildered 10.1.3.2.1
            4 May 2018 at 3:01 pm

            What tax laws, human right laws, environmental laws, resource building laws and consents did Natz remove I can’t really think of any, hey but I may be wrong Also do you have any stats to show fraud and crime is up most of what I see is a these crimes are down

      • McFlock 10.1.4
        4 May 2018 at 1:16 pm

        It depends on how many lives get saved, not having to truck or chopper so many people up to chch or further. And that’s at DHB cost, not including “your appointment is on the 12th at 8am, get there somehow” transport barriers.

        So you’ll probably find the capex offsets a lot of the operational costs that result from whatever crumbs of healthcare you want to throw in our direction.

      • KJT 10.1.5
        4 May 2018 at 3:21 pm

        Instead you want us to pay twice as much for a private service, like the USA?

        • Stunned Mullet 10.1.5.1
          4 May 2018 at 3:48 pm

          No you dunce, quite the opposite.

          Those services which are in high demand and which are in overflow to private providers such as orthopaedics and ophthamology and cardiology would be fully resourced in the major centres and decrease the need for private providers.

          The very specialist services for rarer conditions and specialities would be fully resourced in the large population centres where there is the most resource and demand and which can be maintained as centres of excellence for such services.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.6
        4 May 2018 at 3:27 pm

        It is long past time that NZ faced facts about trying to have a gold plated health service in every population centre.

        Actually, it’s long past time that NZers stopped trying to do everything on the cheap as doing so means that we don’t get the service that we need and it costs more in the long run as we keep trying to fix the sub-par service to do the job which also never works because we’re doing that on the cheap as well.

        • Stunned Mullet 10.1.6.1
          4 May 2018 at 3:42 pm

          So lets’s have services like paediatric neurosurgery at every centre in NZ and damn the costs.

          More diatribe and drivel from DTB.

          • solkta 10.1.6.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 3:45 pm

            Let’s just have one hospital in Auckland.

            • Stunned Mullet 10.1.6.1.1.1
              4 May 2018 at 3:50 pm

              Impractical in the Auckland isthmus under the current setup and with the current bricks and mortar we have in place.

              There is however, very significant gains to be made from not having 3 DHBs replicating their own bureaucracy and IT systems, returning to the RHA system would be worth investigating.

          • Draco T Bastard 10.1.6.1.2
            4 May 2018 at 4:21 pm

            It’s you who are ignoring the costs.

            People dying because they don’t get the treatment that they need soon enough in an emergency because they have to be freighted to Auckland first.
            Having to wait for the necessary surgery and can’t do anything while they wait.
            the added costs upon people as they now have to traverse the country to stay with people.
            Added costs of having to find accommodation when they do.

            The list goes on and on.

            As I say, doing things on the cheap costs more.

          • McFlock 10.1.6.1.3
            4 May 2018 at 4:22 pm

            If there’s work for them down here, why not base them here?

            That goes for every damned speciality – the problem the Southern region faces isn’t that we’re demanding specialists to be paid full time to do one surgery a month as and when needed.

            The problem is that over decades we’ve been fucked by a funding model that assumes three dhbs are within an hour or two’s drive of their neighbours’ base hospitals, or chopper range at a pinch. And this funding approach combined with sub-sustainable levels anyway has resulted in putting off capex to keep the lights on, and other false economies. Not just Dunedin hospital – Queenstown hospital has structural osh issues.

            • Bewildered 10.1.6.1.3.1
              4 May 2018 at 10:25 pm

              Also assuming specialist want to live provincal nz, their work place choices and demand for their skills are global

              • McFlock …
                4 May 2018 at 10:43 pm

                The place has lots of advantages that can be easy to overlook if you need a bucket in the operating theatre to catch drips from the leaking roof when it rains, or you can’t access patient records because they’re in the asbestos-contaminated area, or you have to knife-fight a funding manager to attend a conference because the DHB is the only DHB in the country with a core objective of meeting an unrealistic budget set in Wellington.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                4 May 2018 at 11:22 pm

                Dunedin and other such places are fine places to live. The lack of funding to provide decent services is the problem.

                People get up and leave when the services that they want to provide aren’t funded enough so that they can provide them. It’s highly stressful knowing the job that needs to be done but unable to because because some fuckwit, usually in National, has come up with the slogan Do more with less and implements budget cuts that make it so that it’s doing much less with less.

                This is what we’re seeing now. National has cut the budgets so much that the necessary levels of service are well below what’s needed.

      • Graeme 10.1.7
        4 May 2018 at 9:10 pm

        Your 250 thousand population figure only covers Otago. Dunedin hospital is the primary facility for the whole lower South Island. So you can add in 100 thousand from Southland, some from South Canterbury (Waitaki patients go both ways) and in South Westland you go where ever they can get you quickest in the helicopter.

        We’re really fortunate that the medical school is in Dunedin to make the hospital viable, if it wasn’t a lot of people would die getting to Christchurch. Distances are huge, From Queenstown or Invercargill to Dunedin is nearly 4 hours drive, so equivalent of Taupo to either Auckland or Wellington. Both are on the limit or helicopter transfer or recovery.

    • Bill 10.2
      4 May 2018 at 2:08 pm

      The Cadbury building sits at sea level. A hospital is vital infrastructure that’s meant to last many decades.

      1m sea level rise by 2100 is essentially only taking thermal expansion into account.

      The estimated several meters from Antarctica and Greenland that are going to accompany 2 degrees and 400ppm in the short to medium term have not been factored in to current projections.

      So….as ideas go, that site for a hospital is bloody stupid.

    • MikeS 10.3
      4 May 2018 at 4:10 pm

      South Island?

  11. Jenny 11
    4 May 2018 at 11:48 am

    “Shock and Thaw”
    Alaskan Sea Ice Just Took a Steep, Unprecedented Dive
    Scientific American – May 2, 2018

    By Andrea Thompson

    Winter sea ice cover in the Bering Sea did not just hit a record low in 2018; it was half that of the previous lowest winter on record (2001), says John Walsh, chief scientist of the International Arctic Research Center at the University of Alaska Fairbanks.

    “New Zealand is banning future offshore oil and gas exploration”

    Mission Accomplished

    (Not quite)

    “Labour’s decision to issue no new oil and gas prospecting permits offers no impediment to utilising fully those already granted.”

    Russel Norman National Director of Greenpeace Aotearoa

    There are 31 oil and gas exploration permits currently active, 22 are offshore. These permits cover an area of 100,000 square kilometers, nearly the size of the North Island, and run as far out as 2030 and could go an additional 40 years under a mining permit.

    https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/new-zealand-says-no-to-new-offshore-permits#gs.b6cmMiA

    As I read it; According to this above report, under Labour’s partial “ban”, new oil and gas reserves can be discovered, and then exploited up until 2070!

    As well as this, the government’s so called and much vaunted “ban” on “issuing of new permits” is at best, merely a hiatus.

    The hiatus on issuing new permits announced by this government, will not stop any new government reissuing new oil and gas exploration permits, (as Simon Bridges has promised to do). Only the banning the exploration for all new reserves and cancelling the existing permits could do that. Once done, the oil companies are unlikely to come back, even with a change of government.

    “Looking for more liquor stores to loot”

    The new analysis calls into question the gigantic sums of private and government investment being ploughed into exploration for new fossil fuel reserves, according to UCL’s Professor Paul Ekins, who conducted the research with McGlade. “In 2013, fossil fuel companies spent some $670bn (£443bn) on exploring for new oil and gas resources. One might ask why they are doing this when there is more in the ground than we can afford to burn,” he said.

    “The investors in those companies might feel that money is better spent either developing low-carbon energy sources or being returned to investors as dividends,” said Ekins.

    “One lesson of this work is unmistakably obvious: when you’re in a hole, stop digging,” said Bill McKibben, co-founder of 350.org which is campaigning to get investors to dump their fossil fuel stocks. “These numbers show that unconventional and ‘extreme’ fossil fuel – Canada’s tar sands, for instance – simply have to stay in the ground.”

    “Given these numbers, it makes literally no sense for the industry to go hunting for more fossil fuel,” McKibben said. “We’ve binged to the edge of our own destruction. The last thing we need now is to find a few more liquor stores to loot.”

    Meanwhile away from the above government pantomime NZ Greenhouse emissions continue their inexorable rise, under this administration just as they have done under the last administration.

    “Latest greenhouse gas figures show a rise in emissions”
    Thursday, 12 April 2018, 10:58 am
    Press Release: New Zealand Government

  12. Pete 12
    4 May 2018 at 12:04 pm

    Orchestrated? What?

    Isn’t everything deliberately planned and carried out ‘orchestrated’?

    So Labour Party people planned to tackle a problem, get it sorted and that included at the end presenting it to the public. In what they hoped would be its final throes. It’s final 24 hours.

    Soper said, “Make no mistake, Labour orchestrated the events of the past 24 hours.”

    How disappointing that they orchestrated things. I can’t see why they didn’t leave it to reputable media folk like, say, David Farrar, Cameron Slater or Matthew Hooton since orchestrating is clearly their field. Or maybe they could’ve left it to those who caused the need for some orchestration.

    Make no mistake, by presenting as he did Soper orchestrated further negativity to be aimed at Labour. What chance for that to be a 24 hour thing?

  13. Jenny 13
    4 May 2018 at 3:56 pm

    Whataboutism as practiced by the German Nazi ally of the Spanish fascists in the 1930s.

    How can people on the Left be so stupid as to fall for this stuff again?

    Spanish Fascists claimed that Guernica was a false flag attack

    In a Fight Over Syria, Echoes of Spain’s Civil War and the Battle for Truth in Guernica

    IF YOU LISTEN closely to the angry war of words over whether or not the Syrian government used poison gas in its final assault on the town of Douma, it is possible to detect echoes of a similarly heated dispute that took place during another civil war, eight decades ago.

    In the days after the firebombing of the undefended Basque town of Guernica, on April 26, 1937, Spain’s embattled government drew attention to what was then an unprecedented atrocity, the result of more than three hours of airstrikes carried out by a fleet of bombers dispatched by Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini in support of their fascist ally, Gen. Francisco Franco.

    Within 24 hours, as the blogger Joey Ayoub noted in a discussion of Syria last week, spokespersons for Franco’s rebel junta offered an alternative explanation. Guernica, the fascists said, had not been bombed at all, but set on fire by their retreating enemies as part of a plot to garner international sympathy…..

    …..Although Steer’s report, which inspired Pablo Picasso to begin work on his painting about the massacre, was entirely accurate, Franco’s press office immediately offered a counternarrative, claiming in a statement headlined “Lies, Lies, Lies,” that the Basque president, José Antonio Aguirre, was attempting to blame the fascist air force for fires set by his own troops.

    Pure lies, Says Berlin
    Wireless to The New York Times.

    Berlin,April 29. – The Diplomatische Korrespondenz, semi-official organ of the Foreign Office, after characterizing as pure lies reports that German planes participated in the bombing of Guernica, reminds the world and particularly Britain, that aerial bombing has been freely resorted to in Northwestern India and Aden.
    The communique says that this evidently was overlooked by the Opposition in the Brtitsh Parliament. No country deplores more than Germany that methods of warfare are still employed that result in the suffering for cicilian populations, the paper continues.
    Attention is drawn to Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s appeal of May 21, 1935, when he proposed an international agreement to stigmatize all air bombings as barbarism and forbid them absolutely. But this proposal, says the communique, “was unfortunately ignored by powers that at that time felt they possessed far superior air forces.”

    German newsreels and propaganda of the time gave huge coverage of the crimes of the British Empire, and it was all true. The crimes of British Imperialism are some of the bloodiest in human history, resulting in over 40,000,000 dead. As well as death by fire and sword, carried out in countless wars of invasion, occupation and suppression, millions more died by disease and neglect resulting from imperial policies of economic dislocation and appropriation, theft and slavery.

    Exposed to this twisted one-sided propaganda, millions of German Socialists and Leftists became committed National Socialists.

    Apologists for the Assad regime today, even on this site, just like the German Nazis, continually bring up the crimes of the US and their allies in Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen and even occasionally, Vietnam.

    At the same time as they point to the crimes of American imperialism, these apologists for Syrian style fascism, consciously and deliberately ignore, or deny the crimes of the Assad regime.
    Sometimes, when they can’t deny these crimes, they alternatively use the crimes committed by the US and its allies, as an excuse to justify the genocidal crimes of the Assad regime committed against the Syrian people.

    Just as the Nazis continually and repeatedly brought up the crimes of British Imperialism in India and Africa to hide their own criminal imperial designs and crimes against humanity.

    This is why Bill and Ed and other committed Assad apologists on this site refuse to answer the question;

    Who did this?

    And is it not evidence of genocide?

    • cleangreen 14.1
      4 May 2018 at 4:24 pm

      John Key clone much said there.
      John Key era is gone now dreamer.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.1.1
        4 May 2018 at 4:27 pm

        Shes not Sir John Key, shes what Jacinda Ardern aspires (pretends) to be.

        • McFlock 14.1.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 4:40 pm

          Dunno about that, but she can’t be much worse than the last fmr blinglish staffer who got into parliament.

        • Muttonbird 14.1.1.2
          4 May 2018 at 5:03 pm

          In opposition?

        • cleangreen 14.1.1.3
          4 May 2018 at 5:50 pm

          TO 14.1.1
          She was a john Key clone didn’t you even know this?

          I am surprised there.

        • veutoviper 14.1.1.4
          4 May 2018 at 7:58 pm

          No she is not John Key, nor Bill English but she has worked with both and has their support.

          Having seen her in action on the campaign trail in Wellington and having watched her maiden statement on Wednesday, and her first speech on the Second Reading of the Families Commission Act Repeal Bill on Thursday, I actually suspect that she is going to put up the backs of a lot of her National Party fellow MPs.

          I agree that she is a good speaker – but IMO it also comes with a level of self-assurance that verges on the arrogant; and a self-expectation that she is going to be the one to make a big difference. I suspect this attitude may well get up the noses of some of her colleagues who have been in the House for a lot longer than her – for example, some of the more experienced women, and people like J-L Ross, and also possibly Bridges himself. We shall see.

          Maiden Speech (15 mins) https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=200020

          Families Commission Act Repeal Bill speech (3 mins) – https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=200078

    • Stunned Mullet 14.2
      4 May 2018 at 4:27 pm

      Nope, sadly the next PM of NZ is Winston.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.2.1
        4 May 2018 at 4:29 pm

        Well thats a downer for the weekend

      • AB 14.2.2
        4 May 2018 at 5:30 pm

        Nah – Winston will be too old by 2026. It might be Golriz – that’d please you eh munted?

        • Stunned mullet 14.2.2.1
          4 May 2018 at 6:40 pm

          Winston will be PM in a couple of months.

          • veutoviper 14.2.2.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 7:10 pm

            If things go to plan, Peters will be Acting Prime Minister in exactly six weeks’ time – for six weeks. Not a big deal really.

          • Daveosaurus 14.2.2.1.2
            4 May 2018 at 7:33 pm

            Acting Prime Minister, not PM himself. There is an important difference.

            Muldoon spent a hell of a lot longer three sheets to the wind than Ardern will ever spend in maternity, but Talboys was never Prime Minster as such.

          • Draco T Bastard 14.2.2.1.3
            4 May 2018 at 11:28 pm

            No he won’t be. He’ll be Acting PM.

            Quite a difference.

    • Stuart Munro 14.3
      4 May 2018 at 7:12 pm

      Your logic is sound as far as it goes – certainly none of her colleagues have much to offer. And she hasn’t publicly blotted her copybook yet – though if she spent much time with Key the expectation must be that she will at the first opportunity.

      • veutoviper 14.3.1
        4 May 2018 at 8:10 pm

        IMO she is a very different kettle of fish to Key – more a younger Collins? I think she is going to get up the noses of her fellow (but more experienced) Nat Party colleagues in the House as mentioned in my comment above at 14.1,1,4. LOL

        • Stuart Munro 14.3.1.1
          4 May 2018 at 8:47 pm

          Both coherent and rhetorically competent – rings like a death knell for Bridges. Shame she’s applying her skills to a bad cause.

          • veutoviper 14.3.1.1.1
            4 May 2018 at 9:17 pm

            Exactly. I think that it is going to be interesting in the months ahead to see what happens within the National ranks. I suspect we are going to see some new internal groupings forming. Willis certainly had the support there on Weds for her maiden speech – Key, Joyce and many others.

            On Thursday, support for Willlis was very evident from two of the other new Nats, Denise Lee and Erica Stanford, sitting immediately behind her.

            Mind you IMO, Stanford is also a competent speaker and I suspect also very ambitious. Despite only coming into Parliament in Sept 2017, Stanford has already scored a position as Associate Spokesperson on the Environment in Bridges’ reshuffle in March 2018 under Scott Simpson who was appointed by Bill English last Nov as main Environment Spokesperson. (In March, Bridges also replaced Maggie Barry appointed by English as Conservation Spokesperson with Sarah Dowie in this position – another ambitious young woman …)

            Stanford in the General Debate on Wednesday, 11 April. Enough said.

            https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=199854

    • Gabby 14.4
      4 May 2018 at 7:19 pm

      That a heread link pucky?

    • Draco T Bastard 14.5
      4 May 2018 at 11:27 pm

      Nope.

  15. cleangreen 15
    4 May 2018 at 4:18 pm

    Good one Jenny good one here, on a day when lots of Nat trolls are attacking us all eh?.

    They are livid today and seem worried the crap about nationals failing “brighter future” is dimming much now.

    • Jenny 15.1
      5 May 2018 at 4:56 am

      I think your criticism is unfounded, Cleangreen. It could even be said that you are opportunistically taking a cheap shot.

      Personally I think that the Nats have shot themselves in the foot on this one. And the “Nat trolls” you speak of, are in full retreat. Good one.

      I also might add here;
      That it not just the Left that has fallen for the Assad regime, and like you will use any excuse to shut down any criticism of the regime.
      This is because, as well as being a darling of the Centre Left, Assad is also a darling of the Right and Far Right, and not because Assad falsely paints himself as an anti-imperialist and secular leader, (which is Assad’s attraction to the Left), It is not because of this fiction that the Right love Assad, but because they acknowledge and applaud the real nature of the Assad regime as repressive and sectarian and reactionary.

      But don’t take my word for it;

      Miream Salameh is a refugee from Syria. She gave this speech at a refugee rights rally in Melbourne on Saturday, 5 November, 2017

      “No to detention and no to dictatorships”

      My name is Miream Salameh. I’m a Syrian refugee artist who came to Australia three years ago.

      I am from a Christian family. I never needed to say that here or in my country because Muslims and Christians always live together in harmony and peace, but I say this today because I need to explain that my family and I escaped from the Syrian regime violence before ISIS even existed in my country.

      The Assad regime claims that it protects minorities like us from extremist groups. That is not true. The regime protects itself by using minorities as a playing card to tell Western societies that it is the only source of protection for us.

  16. McFlock 16
    4 May 2018 at 5:42 pm

    So Farrar left defamatory comments on his sewersite until the media asked him about them and explained that he doesn’t pay much attention to his own website.

    What a disingenuous fuckwit.

    • cleangreen 16.1
      4 May 2018 at 6:26 pm

      Well said McFlock,

      Wonders never cease to amaze us.

      Natz = fiction.

  17. R.P Mcmurphy 17
    4 May 2018 at 8:39 pm

    beware of bots.

    • In Vino 17.1
      4 May 2018 at 9:47 pm

      Why? What’s wrong with us bots? Explain what you mean by bots, please.

  18. eco maori 18
    5 May 2018 at 8:39 am

    You Tokoroa sandflys I have observed you enough to know your behaviors everyone seen the 2 who you hired to try and intimidat me in Putaruru yesterday.
    I don’t believe in coincidences so everyone knows who my Whano is in this neck of the woods and I say that if anything happens to my Mokopunas on the roads they will know that it was uses who are to blame for anything bad happening to them this raru is one you started we me so leave my – – – – – Whano out of this Ana to kai. If I did not have this wonderful website and the backing of MY——— I would be locked up druged up in Jail on FALSE CHARGES ECO MAORI FEELS for the others that this has happened to. Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 18.1
      5 May 2018 at 6:46 pm

      Good evening Newshub that volcanic eruption on Hawaii show us that man is nothing with out mother nature blessing I send my condolences to the natives who are displace by Ruaumoko in Hawaii .
      Sugar is a poison to Te tangata te Pacific and should be taxed higher than other foods a lot of us have 10 15 cups of tea or coffee a day x 2 to 3 teas spoon of the stuff = 20 to 45 teaspoon of sugar a day one’s body can not cope with that our body are designed to use the unprocessed sugar that comes naturally in the food we eat not the man made sugar.
      Prosessed food once again.
      Boxing in not the only sport that can cause early dementia in people any contact sport that cause concussion can cause this problem and not only in Pacific people it’s all people who suffer from this we need head gear as a compulsory law in all contact sports. The old Maori tradition te manaw is highly Tapu you never hit a Mokopuna on the head for very good reasons Eco Maori says. It’s a good weekend of sports I see it Ka kite ano

  19. eco maori 19
    6 May 2018 at 5:30 am

    Eco Maori will have to be extra dilagint in what he say to whom as the sandflys put a mean spin on everything I say it’s a phonomen that I will have to be careful what I write on this site to as I have not had a schools education but life has educated me and I read things and tell it like I see it with out knowing that the people I write about have had a very significant role in OUR history. Their are other reasons as well that I will have to be careful to. Eco Maori can see all te tangata that reads his post and it is quite a vast and diverse audience. Ka kite ano