Open Mike 05/03/2017

67 comments on “Open Mike 05/03/2017 ”

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1. marty mars 1

   5 March 2017 at 7:50 am

   the tweetsident is losing it again quite deliberately imo

   Without citing evidence, Donald Trump on Saturday accused Barack Obama of a Watergate-style “wire tapping” of his offices in New York before the US presidential election, a move critics dismissed as an attempt to deflect attention from investigations of his ties to Russia.

   from the twit on twitter

   …“How low has President Obama gone to tapp [sic] my phones during the very sacred election process,” Trump tweeted. “This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!”

   Obama’s former deputy national security adviser, Ben Rhodes, tweeted back at Trump: “No president can order a wiretap. Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you.”

   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-wiretap-barack-obama-coup

   It’s the second time inside a week Trump has attacked his predecessor.

   In an interview on Fox News on Monday (Tuesday NZT), Trump accused Obama of orchestrating protests again his new administration.

   Some current and former intelligence officials cast doubt on Trump’s latest accusations.

   “It’s highly unlikely there was a wiretap on the president-elect,” said one former senior intelligence official, who requested anonymity to speak candidly, told The Washington Post.

   “It seems unthinkable. If that were the case by some chance, that means that a federal judge would have found that there was either probably cause that he had committed a crime or was an agent of a foreign power.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/90064508/us-president-donald-trump-accuses-barack-obama-of-wire-tapping-trump-tower

   This of course will be analysed because it is textbook projection and textbook attempted distraction from his teams unsavory associations with russia and lying about it.

   It shows the venal, small minded and vindictive trump for what he is – a low bum, a “bad or sick guy” – so sad.
   • Once was Tim now no longer 1.1

     5 March 2017 at 8:20 am

     Yet another sign of the budding despot/fascist: paranoia
     (oops, I was only going to read and not post on this site. Apologies – I’m not the perfect specimen)
   • Psycho Milt 1.2

     5 March 2017 at 10:06 am

     All part of the playbook – “our enemies are plotting against us and conspiring to overthrow our legitimate government, so uh yeah please be handing over extraordinary powers, like just totally temporarily while we deal with this, OK?”
     • marty mars 1.2.1

       5 March 2017 at 10:13 am

       He is a very loose cannon too who probably misintrepreted some statement in a briefing that caused him to lose it via tweet. I can’t work out if his handlers are filled with joy or horror everytime trump opens that tight little talking hole and puts out all his insecurities and fears, his petty worries and blinding egowanking. He seems too stupid to be fake but maybe that is his gift.
   • mauī 1.3

     5 March 2017 at 7:39 pm

     I think Trump is closer to the truth with his comments than whatever the fake MSM news propaganda outlets can come up with, as they try and remove him from office.

     Jill Stein would be facing the same if she made it to President.
2. John up North 2

   5 March 2017 at 7:50 am

   The ongoing decline of RNZ gives me the shits! And you know it’s getting worse when sports (Rugby) becomes the 1st cab off the rank for today’s most important “story”
   • garibaldi 2.1

     5 March 2017 at 10:55 am

     I couldn’t agree more JuN.
     I am so sick of hearing American voices whining away on just about everyone’s show. Tedious to say the least.
     Underfunding has driven them to the bottom of the barrel .
3. Robert Guyton 3

   5 March 2017 at 7:58 am

   “New Zealand’s leading independent conservation body says most rivers and streams are excluded from Government’s new goal to have 90% of New Zealand’s rivers swimmable by 2040.
   Forest and Bird released a series of maps today which, it claims, shows the majority of rivers and streams won’t be covered by any swimmability standard under the Government’s proposed new water quality measures.”

   Most streams excluded from Govt goal: Forest & Bird

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/most-streams-excluded-govt-goal-forest-bird?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
4. Robert Guyton 4

   5 March 2017 at 8:10 am

   “While the United States faces a major environmental backslide under President-elect Donald Trump, a small central European nation has become the first to enshrine the right to drinking water in their constitution. The new amendment to Slovenia‘s constitution states that drinkable water is a human right. Largely to prevent the commercialization of the country’s water resources, the Slovenian parliament just voted in favor of the new law. Prime Minister Miro Cerar, in favor of the amendment, described water as “the 21st century’s liquid gold.””

   Slovenia becomes first EU nation to enshrine human right to water in their constitution

   http://inhabitat.com/slovenia-becomes-first-eu-nation-to-enshrine-human-right-to-water-in-their-constitution/?inf_contact_key=1c1797ba4349222f8c51b7157bea1fee53d11c83f94b44da51ec5d7523935d37
   • Jenny Kirk 4.1

     5 March 2017 at 9:51 am

     If only our government would follow suit, Robert G. Hopeless wish. Our government is too tied up in farming and large corporate farms to do anything like this brilliant move from Slovenia.
     • Robert Guyton 4.1.1

       5 March 2017 at 10:06 am

       Bill will be being leaned on by his brothers, Jenny.
5. Robert Guyton 5

   5 March 2017 at 8:17 am

   The Great Aspirational excuse – Frank Macskasy

   https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2017/03/05/election-17-countdown-the-promise-of-nirvana-to-come/

   ““It’s a very aspirational target.”

   Within those five simple words, Tolley has revealed the the eventual outcome and excuse whenever one of National’s target-goals fails: they are only “aspirational”.

   This is critical, because like the “Predator Free New Zealand by 2050” or “90 per cent of rivers and lakes ‘swimmable’ by 2040”, the target dates for these goals to be accomplished are so far into the future that (a) no one will recall these committments being made (b) most National ministers who made them will be long-retired, residing in rest-homes and having drool wiped from their slack-jawed faces by under-paid caregivers or (c) dead.

   In short, no one will ever be held to account for these failures of policy.

   The great mistake made by National is that, at the beginning when they dreamed up these feel-good gimmicks, they set target-goal dates too close to the present. For example, when John Key and Bill English published a document entitled “Better Public Services” in February 2014, issuing a whole raft of target-goals, they set the date for accomplishment at 2017 (for most, though not all).

   That left National minister in office only three years later having to explain their failure to achieve their target-goals.

   In Tolley’s case, she could only offer the lame excuse that they were “aspirational” goals only.

   As Susie Ferguson pointed out to Nick Smith on Radio NZ’s ‘Morning Report‘;

   “The long time frame of this though means that you are going to be long gone whether we see that this has happened or not.”

   The ultimate Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card for a politician.

   In the meantime – stay out of the rivers and lakes. Nick Smith has been seen bull-shitting in them.”
   • Once was Tim now no longer 5.1

     5 March 2017 at 8:30 am

     @Robert:
     Do you remember this Nick Smith bullshit artist not too many years ago when he first entered parlyarmint?
     Admittedly a bit of a joke back then, but oh how the little pus-filled pimple has succumbed to Natzi ideology in the name of self preservation.
     Actually, if I were CT, I’d be recommending the Gnats blame everything on him, and dump him at the next Cow Poke Shuffle
6. marty mars 6

   5 March 2017 at 8:24 am

   I am loving the e-tangata series and this article is very good

   However, I also have to say that, with hindsight, I think the argument in the Treaty claim over te reo Māori was not quite right. Ngā Kaiwhakapūmau, myself included, claimed the Crown’s obligation was to protect “ō rātou taonga katoa”. Actually, it is to protect “te tino rangatiratanga o … ō rātou taonga katoa” – which is different.

   Here’s an analogy. Think of the beautiful carved houses on display in museums around the country. The taonga themselves are almost perfectly preserved – no rot or insect pests, no faded paint or weathered timber.

   But, housed within a public (Crown) institution, the ancestral house’s cultural relationships with its Māori community are seriously compromised. The hapū’s control over the use of the house, its cultural value within their community, the direct personal relationships between the people and their house are largely lost. So the taonga is protected, but not its rangatiratanga.

   such a great point

   …I really love the current enthusiasm for learning Māori, but let’s be careful not to overwhelm the ongoing efforts that Māori communities have been making for 40 years. I see the role of Treaty partners as creating space for Māori control. Our wish for our children to be taught Māori in all schools must not override Māori priorities for funding and support, or we might inadvertently undermine tino rangatiratanga in our well-meaning efforts to protect te reo Māori.

   http://e-tangata.co.nz/news/who-should-call-the-shots-on-reo-maori-priorities
   • weka 6.1

     5 March 2017 at 2:26 pm

     I love that first bit too, and it’s a good example of the differences in values between the cultures. Which wouldn’t be so bad if Pākehā understood that and stopped trying to get everything done on their own culturally-blind terms.

     Re te reo, I wondered that too, what would happen if the uptake of te reo happened suddenly via schools and basically via Pākehā institutions and values. Would te reo in schools still be taught via kaupapa Māori and within that culture? Or would it become a technical thing that could be taught by anyone, something learned by rote separate from the culture? I guess I should ask the Greens that.
     • weka 6.1.1

       5 March 2017 at 2:27 pm

       btw, I’ve been enjoying the kinds of links you’ve been putting up marty.
       • adam 6.1.1.1

         5 March 2017 at 2:44 pm

         Have to agree weka, keep em coming marty mars.
         • marty mars8 6.1.1.1.1

           5 March 2017 at 3:18 pm

           Thank you both
     • DoublePlusGood 6.1.2

       6 March 2017 at 1:47 am

       Sadly quite a bit more of the latter, I would think. Perhaps answers as to what is likely to happen could be found in other areas where languages have been revived like Wales, Ireland, the Basque country.
7. Carolyn_nth 7

   5 March 2017 at 8:28 am

   TS was slow in loading yesterday. Is loading fine today. Thanks.
   • weka 7.1

     5 March 2017 at 2:08 pm

     I’m finding it pretty slow today too.
     • adam 7.1.1

       5 March 2017 at 2:16 pm

       Me too, for both days
     • BM 7.1.2

       5 March 2017 at 3:56 pm

       It seems to be the stat counter plugin.

       If you block it the site runs quite fast.
       • weka 7.1.2.1

         5 March 2017 at 4:29 pm

         how would one block that?
         • BM 7.1.2.1.1

           5 March 2017 at 4:55 pm

           If you’re running chrome go to the chrome store and install this extension

           https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm

           Once installed
           – Right click on the icon to open a context menu
           -Click on Options
           -Click the Settings tab
           -Tick Advanced user
           -Close and left click the icon again
           -Scroll down to statcounter.com and click on the column to the right of statcounter heading
           if the colour has changed to red stat counter has been blocked.
           • weka 7.1.2.1.1.1

             5 March 2017 at 5:56 pm

             ah, not chrome.
             • BM …

               5 March 2017 at 5:59 pm

               https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/
               • weka …

                 5 March 2017 at 6:33 pm

                 ta.
8. mac1 8

   5 March 2017 at 9:30 am

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89883198/crushed-the-real-story-of-how-a-boyracer-saved-his-condemned-car-from-the-crusher

   A charming story which highlights three things.

   First, this government minister, Collins, could not even write an effective law.

   Second, it shows that even a young man from rural Otago is able to circumvent this law. He should do well in this modern world. The article says that he attempted to sell his celebrity story to the newspaper for $2000. I fully expect that he will be pursuing a political career as the member for Clutha-Southland.

   Third, the police themselves added to the failure by not processing their paperwork on time.

   It also shows that what a silly approach it is to write a law which attempts to punish people by a process which is circumventable and is destined to fail because it tries to address lawless behaviour with cars by destroying a car – a car which is easily replaced- when the problem is really a social problem in general and a particular problem with a young man’s continued misbehaviour.
   • John up North 8.1

     5 March 2017 at 1:16 pm

     Yet another clear example of Natz ineptitude (either by design or sheer stupidity). Headlines and multiple photos ops of how this new law/rule/legislation will make rivers cleaner/housing availability better/corporates pay their true tax burden/rid us of these dangerous drivers. Lots of hype and rah rah from the complicit media then no follow up on how piss poor the new changes work in the real world.
9. Once was Tim now no longer 9

   5 March 2017 at 11:01 am

   @ weka – it’s happening gubbamint-wide.
   We should ekshully back the truck up a bit and ask how and why all this shite gets a smooth ride.
   I’m not hopefull.
   ….and just as aside, I appreciate your endeavours and those of the PRENTS, but you really need to get over yourselves as well. IF ONLY the readiness to ban opinion and anecdotal, whilst readiness to accomodate the TROLL and the ego.
   (the latter could even include your master and the wonderful WONDERFUL work in the north eastern – how she tolerates the cnut bewilders me.
   Maybe relationship is her addiction (but ew? really?)

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Once was Tim now no longer 9.1

     5 March 2017 at 3:40 pm

     🙂 I bet they did
10. Draco T Bastard 10

    5 March 2017 at 1:21 pm

    Reason, Creativity and Freedom: The Communalist Model

    In the aftermath of Donald Trump’s election, devastating images and memories of the First and Second World Wars flood our minds. Anti-rationalism, racialized violence, scapegoating, misogyny and homophobia have been unleashed from the margins of society and brought into the political mainstream.

    Meanwhile, humanity itself runs in a life-or-death race against time. The once-unthinkable turmoil of climate change is now becoming reality, and no serious attempts are being undertaken by powerful actors and institutions to holistically and effectively mitigate the catastrophe. As the tenuous and paradoxical era of American republicanism comes to an end, nature’s experiment in such a creative, self-conscious creature as humanity reaches a perilous brink.

    Precisely because these nightmares have become reality, now is the time to decisively face the task of creating a free and just political economic system. For the sake of humanity — indeed for the sake of all complex life on earth as we know it — we must countervail the fascism embodied today in nation-state capitalism and unravel a daunting complex of interlocking social, political, economic and ecological problems. But how?

    As a solution to the present situation, a growing number of people in the world are proposing “communalism”: the usurpation of capitalism, the state, and social hierarchy by the way of town, village, and neighborhood assemblies and federations. Communalism is a living idea, one that builds upon a rich legacy of political history and social movements.

    It’s something that I’ve noticed over the least few years of my studies and participation in politics. It’s capitalism, in all its forms, that restricts freedom, reason and creativity of people and it does so because the only ideas that are allowed to exist are ones that support the status quo, ones that keep rich people rich.
    • Poission 10.1

      5 March 2017 at 1:27 pm

      The age old question (as answered by radio yerevan)..

      Q: Is there a difference between capitalism and communism?

      A: In principle, yes. In capitalism, man exploits man. In communism, it’s the reverse.
      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        5 March 2017 at 1:36 pm

        Ah, RWNJ sloganeering used to spread lies and misinformation.

        Really, I suggest you read the article. You may find out why the USSR, China and the DPRK aren’t communist.
        • Poission 10.1.1.1

          5 March 2017 at 1:40 pm

          Radio yerevan again.

          Our listeners asked us, “When the final phase of socialism, namely communism, is built, will there still be thefts and pilfering?”

          We’re answering: “No, because everything will be already pilfered during socialism.”

          eg fourth labour government.
          • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.1

            5 March 2017 at 1:44 pm

            Ah, more fact free sloganeering from the RWNJs.

            The 4th Labour government implemented full capitalism.
            • Poission 10.1.1.1.1.1

              5 March 2017 at 2:02 pm

              see first post.

              Radio Yerevan was an Armenian radio station broadcasting during the soviet era.

              A number of the jokes have recently been declassified by the CIA.

              EG.

              Question: When the elections were first held using the Soviet method?

              Answer: When Adam was electing his wife, and Eve her husband.

              http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/azerbaijans-leader-names-his-wife-as-first-vice-president/

              Whats the difference?
              • Draco T Bastard …

                5 March 2017 at 5:36 pm

                Perhaps you should read the article I linked to and find out?
11. adam 11

    5 March 2017 at 1:38 pm

    Election In WA (western Australia) today, looks like Labor are going to romp in, with a pretty big wing in their favour. One interesting thing, which I’ve been meaning t put up is the break down of the coalition between the liberals and national.

    Here is just some analysis of that. Oh and the liberals are running off to join up with one nation – you remember one nation, the nationalist far right group around Pauline Hanson. The one time you can say the band was better.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/mar/05/western-australia-election-labor-pulls-ahead-to-winning-position-in-poll

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/17/john-howard-backs-liberal-preference-deal-with-one-nation-in-wa

    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/wa-election-2017/wa-liberals-one-nation-deal-a-political-game-says-turnbull-20170221-guho0d.html

    Just a side note, one of my mates who has been a national supporter all his life, has put labour second in his preferences. Shocked me, but as he said, “if the liberals are going to go with One Nation, may they rot in hell”.
    • exkiwiforces 11.1

      5 March 2017 at 4:28 pm

      The WA Election is next weekend mate and I’m looking forward to it. Just to see the Lab, Nat’s and the Lib’s poo their pants when One nation hold’s the balance of power.
12. fisiani 12

    5 March 2017 at 2:37 pm

    Great performance on The Nation by Bill English ” you’ll just have to wait and see. ” Fantastic answer in March, six months from the election.
    • Muttonbird 12.1

      5 March 2017 at 2:57 pm

      Shows a lack of honesty and integrity, not to mention ideas. No surprises there.
    • Gabby 12.2

      5 March 2017 at 7:12 pm

      He binglesed it all right.
    • ScottGN 12.3

      5 March 2017 at 7:34 pm

      Scraping the barrel much?
13. greywarshark 13

    5 March 2017 at 3:38 pm

    lprent
    Timed – 4 minutes to get onto The Standard and about 4 minutes to go from Home page to Open Mike. I haven’t noticed this happening elsewhere. Have just changed to Firefox 50.2. Not on super highway yet, still on copper.
14. greywarshark 14

    5 March 2017 at 3:46 pm

    lprent
    Waited for about 4 minutes to send last comment on access through, most of the time was waiting for secure.statcounter.com. I cleaned out all my cookies recently to try and stop me getting into TS spam content – seems I have made it worse. Any ideas. Some of the others have had difficulties recently about something – can-t remember.
    • weka 14.1

      5 March 2017 at 4:34 pm

      TS is running slow this weekend. I think you have two things going on, not necessarily related. The slow access thing, and the historic issue of you going into Pending all the time.

      Re the latter, have you tried a different device? Or a different browser? Maybe try commenting from a public access computer and see what happens.
      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1

        5 March 2017 at 5:37 pm

        TS is running slow this weekend.

        I’m not having any problems with it.
        • weka 14.1.1.1

          5 March 2017 at 5:56 pm

          lucky you.
      • Carolyn_nth 14.1.2

        5 March 2017 at 7:59 pm

        It was slow for me yesterday on firefox, and slightly better on safari.

        But today TS is loading sweetly for me.
    • Andre 14.2

      5 March 2017 at 7:06 pm

      Yeah, I’m also spending a lot of time waiting for the secure.statcounter.com. Also got a blank replies tab, but we’ll see if that turns up after submitting this comment.

      edit: nope, replies tab still blank.
      • BM 14.2.1

        5 March 2017 at 7:07 pm

        https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05032017/#comment-1306780
        • McFlock 14.2.1.1

          5 March 2017 at 7:10 pm

          lol

          a cunning tory plan to reduce TS’ web traffic stats 😉
          • BM 14.2.1.1.1

            5 March 2017 at 7:22 pm

            Damn it, foiled again, 😀
        • Andre 14.2.1.2

          5 March 2017 at 7:30 pm

          Thanks. Well whaddaya know, it gave me back the replies tab too.

          Maybe I should lose my habit of just scrolling past your offerings.

          ……nah…..
          • BM 14.2.1.2.1

            5 March 2017 at 7:32 pm

            Bud, I don’t really give a fuck what you do
            • Andre 14.2.1.2.1.1

              5 March 2017 at 7:36 pm

              😀
15. Muttonbird 15

    5 March 2017 at 6:58 pm

    So much for NZ First and ACT being in the same government together. Rowing in different directions much?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/325884/nz-first-and-act-at-odds-over-super-age
    • BM 15.1

      5 March 2017 at 7:05 pm

      If National goes with NZ First, Act is history anyway.
      • Muttonbird 15.1.1

        5 March 2017 at 7:10 pm

        Seymour had better start attacking Peters if he wants a job.
        • BM 15.1.1.1

          5 March 2017 at 7:27 pm

          He’s a dead man walking and he knows it.

          Having said that David Seymour is actually quite a talented politician, if he wants to continue a career in politics though, he’s going to have to be a National party Mp.
          • Psycho Milt 15.1.1.1.1

            5 March 2017 at 8:02 pm

            Why wouldn’t National continue the scam? As it stands, they get one more MP than their share of the party vote entitles them to. If they make him officially a National MP, they lose that advantage. With the vote share so close, one MP more than your party share is well worth having.
        • McFlock 15.1.1.2

          5 March 2017 at 8:01 pm

          Seymour’s an unpopped zit who can see the approaching tweezers
16. repateet 16

    5 March 2017 at 8:58 pm

    Yeah, but they’ll all pop out in Epsom and vote for him.
17. saveNZ 17

    6 March 2017 at 10:14 am

    Goff bemoans $4b shortfall to cover city’s needs…

    (Sounds like he is not considering decreasing immigration that is making up the demand on the city infrastructure (44,000 new cars in Auckland last year alone), nor looking at the corruption charges amongst the 1 billion of rate payers money given to Auckland Transport which is clearly not up to the job, or the 1 billion of failed IT that was never investigated by the council, or the corporate welfare like money spent on Westgate Mall that the rate payers were funding the private developers for, or the eye watering amounts spent on corporate private lawyers at the council who are spending up a storm helping Auckland council, do such things as helping Ports of Auckland steal the harbour, cutting down ancient Kauri trees in Titirangi, paying for prosecuting the corrupt Auckland Transport officials and their advice and evidence in the unitary plan which was so poor it got withdrawn after being challenged …, or wonder why they did not get transport in place before the SHA and zoning changes in particular at the outer limits.. )

    Nope apparently in the neoliberal ‘user pays – he’s going to introduce congestion charges to the most poor in Auckland. (Because most rich people live in central suburbs and therefore don’t have to commute).

    In Phil’s mythical Neoliberal land, workers can then tell their employers to ‘shove it’ as they won’t come into work between 8 – 6 pm as to expensive….

    Then they wonder why many locals can’t afford the cost of living any more…

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