Open Mike 06/12/2018

127 comments on “Open Mike 06/12/2018 ”

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1. Enough 1

   6 December 2018 at 7:48 am

   The first of many.
   https://i.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/109110152/canteens-taranaki-branch-may-face-closure-after-proposed-restructure
   Taranaki is just one of the regions, towns and cities about to lose its AYA cancer service with the majority of CanTeen’s specialist care workers facing redundancy. Regional face-to-face patient support services to be axed and replaced by an online “portal”.
   Ironically, the AYA conference currently taking place in Australia stresses the importance of face-to-face support to ensure optimum outcomes for young cancer patients. Third world stuff.
   • millsy 1.1

     6 December 2018 at 9:06 am

     According to out mate James, it’s just cutting the fat.
     • greywarshark 1.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 9:59 am

       Why start trolling FOR James? You have plenty of your own opinions millsy. Let’s hear your thunks.
2. marty mars 2

   6 December 2018 at 8:07 am

   repost from last night

   Agree – it is not working for many and the solutions proposed don’t address it in relation to tangata whenua.

   The chair of Suicide Prevention Australia and the Auckland District Māori Council says Māori are sick of turning up for a karakia and cup of tea and then being told to leave the table.

   Matthew Tukaki says that’s his immediate response to He Ara Oranga, the report of the Government Inquiry into Mental Health and Addiction.

   He says there was a compete disregard of the need for Māori co-design of mental health and suicide prevention initiatives, and all the power remains in the hands of the Health Ministry.

   What was needed was an investigation into the failure of the health system for Māori.

   “The highest suicide rate per head of population in the world is our people. The largest number of people who are filtering through the mental health system per head of population are our people. The highest number of people who are facing everything from addiction to P and alcoholism and all the rest, they’re our people so why in god’s green earth were our stories and our narratives as a first nations people overwhelmed by everybody else,” Mr Tukaki says…

   https://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_news/MjA3MzU/He-Ara-Oranga-overwhelmed-by-mainstream
   • David Mac 2.1

     6 December 2018 at 9:06 am

     You popped into my mind last Sunday Marty. I watched the final ‘The Hui’ for the year. The entire show featured Mike King addressing a Whanganui school with a predominately Maori roll.

     Wow, so much of what he said rang so true for me. He led me to consider things I never had. By the end of the show I had my pick for New Zealander of the Year.

     Best TV I’ve seen for some time, the medium used as it should be. If you haven’t seen it, please have a look Marty. If you did catch it, I’d like to hear your thoughts please. It’s free to watch on demand but I’m not able to provide a direct link as watching a TV 3 show on demand requires a free registration and log-in to the service…this content makes the ads worth tolerating.

     https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/the-hui/125685

     Ha, I wrote this an hour ago, I started watching it again and couldn’t stop. Powerful stuff.
     • veutoviper 2.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 9:42 am

       Thanks for that, David Mac.

       I was thinking the other day about making a list of reading/watching over the slow Summer break.

       Your comment prompted me to create a Word doc for the list and your comment plus link in now first on the list.
       • David Mac 2.1.1.1

         6 December 2018 at 9:52 am

         Cool veuto, it changed the way I see many things. Like the futility of prohibition of the vices that harm us. Mike puts it like this: “Drugs, alcohol and bullying others weren’t a problem for me, they were a solution.”

         I think it’s worthy of being at the top of your list veuto.
     • Cinny 2.1.2

       6 December 2018 at 10:26 am

       Powerful as, brought me to tears. Best piece on NZ TV for 2018
       • David Mac 2.1.2.1

         6 December 2018 at 10:47 am

         Me too Cinny, his honesty made mine tears of hope. Hope that more of us can learn to cook with Mike’s simple recipe.
     • marty mars 2.1.3

       6 December 2018 at 11:37 am

       Wow Kia ora David Mac. Awesome, so needed, so much aroha. I probably wouldn’t have watched it without your recommendation so thanks again.
       • David Mac 2.1.3.1

         6 December 2018 at 11:52 am

         Sweet Marty. Before watching I wondered why Mike King walked away from his comedic fame. I wonder no more.
   • gsays 2.2

     6 December 2018 at 2:16 pm

     Hey Marty,
     While I haven’t seen it yet, although I will as it is been recommended to me three times, I can’t help but feel that not feeling connected contributes.

     Whether that connection is to a job, interest/hobby, community group or primarily family.

     The history for Maori since WW2 is terrible.
     Having lost their best in foreign wars, they were told leave your rural/marae/communal way of life, and come live in the cities. Work in the factories. Until we close them.

     Do that, (leave your traditional/familiar way of being and go to an isolated way of life), to anyone they will be lost.
     • marty mars 2.2.1

       6 December 2018 at 7:14 pm

       Yes I do this the disconnect is a real part of the problem. It’s good you bring it up because we must look multi dimensionally at this imo and consider the spiritual and other other non materialistic aspects of living a life.
   • Ankerrawshark 2.3

     6 December 2018 at 6:01 pm

     These statistics are an utter tragedy and disgrace.

     I work in the area. I try to do my best for all my patients and deliver evidenced based strategies……..I realize the context of colonization that is uniquely stressful and that people get triggered into mental health problems when they are under stress. One of the things I am really aware of is the negative believe about self Maori have internalized due to racism.

     It’s an overwhelming problem. We need to change our social environment. But we need good treatment by skilled practitioners when people become unwell
     • marty mars 2.3.1

       6 December 2018 at 7:19 pm

       Totally agree. There are so many converging and connecting aspects to this tragedy – we’ve got to holistically look at this and do what you and Mike king are doing – talk to people, work with them and help them and educate them. Kia kaha to you and Kia ora for your mahi.
       • Ankerrawshark 2.3.1.1

         6 December 2018 at 7:58 pm

         Kia Ora Marty Mars. I feel privileged to work in the area and see people get their mental health back. If you don’t have your mental health, you have nothing.

         It’s quite upsetting to think that things have got worse since I started out. They have undoubtedly got worse over the 9 years of National. Funding for mental health in primary care slashed. A training course that was world class axed, access to crisis services increasingly difficult
3. Adrian Thornton 3

   6 December 2018 at 8:13 am

   Just in case the sickening platitudes being spewed out for the war criminal and racist George H.W. Bush by all media including our own supposedly neutral RNZ are starting grate on your nerves, here is the balance that all our media lack the capacity to deliver…

   ‘The Ignored Legacy of George H.W. Bush: War Crimes, Racism, and Obstruction of Justice’

   https://theintercept.com/2018/12/01/the-ignored-legacy-of-george-h-w-bush-war-crimes-racism-and-obstruction-of-justice/
   • greywarshark 3.1

     6 December 2018 at 10:08 am

     Adrian T
     Thanks. At last something that’s relevant and balanced USA news. The sickening tsunami from the USA when we are supposed to be global, internationally savvy, shows us up as colonials wanting to be attached perhaps as a major territory. We seem lost and seeking a port, and in the absence of that following the nearest USA cruise ship as The Dingy Dinghy.
     • Adrian Thornton 3.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 10:57 am

       @greywarshark
       I often wonder whether a new local media service that offered fair and balanced news might actually do quite well..imagine this scenario for a moment…

       You wake up, turn on your radio to this new radio programme, they announce the funeral of HW Bush in the hourly news bulletin in a neutral way, then proceed over the next couple of hours to have one puntit who tells us all the good things Bush did, then another pundit who unpacks HW Bush’s unsavoury actions as POTUS, our hard hitting presenter grills both of them to make sure their facts and figures are in order. Then we have the daily report on Workers news and issues, ending with a comment from a reputable economist, followed by the Market update which ends (as it often does) with comments from a paid bank economist.. now that would be an interesting comparison to keep a track of…anyway I am sure you can see where I am going with this.

       If only!
       • KJT 3.1.1.1

         8 December 2018 at 8:52 pm

         Scoop.
4. Adrian Thornton 4

   6 December 2018 at 8:32 am

   Email to Jim Mora this morning submitting a One Quick Question for their consideration….

   Hello Jim, or Jim’s helper, I have a question for your segment.

   Why does media, (including RNZ) not cover the life of the deceased former POTUS George H.W. Bush with any kind of balance?

   Of course it is right to cover his good points, and the better parts of his character, but why can’t the media also cover the many negative points of his presidency which negatively impacted hundreds of thousands of humans (especially in South America and The Middle East), do they not deserve this same right of media coverage?

   Just wondering?

   Best
   Adrian Thornton.
   • David Mac 4.1

     6 December 2018 at 9:19 am

     I think it’s a social construct Adrian. Mora approaches it the way he does for the same reason nobody starts a eulogy with ‘George was an arsehole’.
     • Adrian Thornton 4.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 11:06 am

       I understand that, but HW Bush is not a private citizen, he was leader of the most powerful country in the world, I see absolutely no reason why his record in that role can’t be commented on in a fair and balanced way during this time, other wise his legacy will (actually IS as we speak) be completely whitewashed by a compliant media, just as Regan was, and just as we have seen lately with terrorist John Mccain.
       • David Mac 4.1.1.1

         6 December 2018 at 12:03 pm

         Yes, some will honour America’s youngest ever military jet pilot, others will consider the airman that fires missles into villages of innocents at age 20. The most touching thing about his passing for me was the loyalty of his Labrador. I guess I’m just saying that right or wrong, for most, the right thing to do is to wait until his corpse is cold before sledging the guy and his legacy.
         • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.1

           6 December 2018 at 12:27 pm

           David Mac
           You old softy eh.
           • David Mac 4.1.1.1.1.1

             6 December 2018 at 12:36 pm

             We’re all snowflakes Grey. The staunchest of us melt. The easiest way to knock cage fighting legend Mark Hunt out is to lay a hand on his daughter. The frequency of the melting light varies but we’re all snowflakes
         • Adrian Thornton 4.1.1.1.2

           6 December 2018 at 12:36 pm

           Sorry, but fuck him, do you seriously think the media will ever get around to discussing the thousands of humans who were killed, maimed, raped and destroyed as a direct result of HIS decisions? no they will leave the public with the vision of a American hero who was gentle man with a loyal dog who loved his family…the right thing to do is be honest about what he did and who he did it too…today not tomorrow, because as we know tomorrow will never comes for the MSM to present even the slightest balance around the legacy of the racist, war criminal H.W. Bush.

           As far as I concerned people like him are the enemy of most humans and for that matter the future of the planet as a whole.

           BTW I love my dogs, and have had dogs all my life, so I also know dogs give their loyalty pretty easily, I wouldn’t read too much into his loyal dog thing myself.
           • David Mac 4.1.1.1.2.1

             6 December 2018 at 12:49 pm

             I don’t despise the individual as much as you do Adrian, I don’t think most do. You highlighted ‘HIS Decisions’. He didn’t walk into an Oval Office meeting one morning and declare ‘Gather around Generals, this week we’re bombing these bastards.’ It was a Whitehouse/Pentagon team effort.

             I admired the loyalty of his dog because it prompted me to hug mine.
             • greywarshark …

               6 December 2018 at 1:19 pm

               David Mac
               Don’t stand for office for anything because I will blame you for what you do or don’t do that’s bad. That’s the rub, and having a dog doesn’t preclude you from the results of the people’s disappointment.

               I get sad about parents trying to save their little children, dying in pain or running away, starving, and having their living destroyed and if their sons manage to get away, not being accepted anywhere or locked up somewhere like Manus Island.
             • Adrian Thornton …

               6 December 2018 at 4:14 pm

               @David Mac
               Here you go pal, here’s another guy who was just part of a team effort that might prompt you to go and hug your dog…
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.2

         6 December 2018 at 12:04 pm

         I’ve looked at that excellent link on Bush senior you put up.
         I noticed the malicious infrastructure bombing (as opposed to the necessary strategic bombing, which was also malicious) and how it was done to cause the maximum pressure and hardship on the Iraqi people and their leaders. (1991)

         There seems to be a trend here looking at post WW2 to what was done in Iraq. Was Bush worse than the others – seems like BAU savagery crops up throughout.

         WW2 Roosevelt dies and Harry Truman takes over. He wants to finish the war quickly so after a couple of days of conference and planning, drops two atom bombs on Japan (because they have got them, cuts any Japanese resistance, and is opportunity to trial the bombs and indicate to Germany their prowess). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Harry_S._Truman
         (1945)

         And I remembered about North Korea where the US Air Force bombed North Korean (against UN? agreements) irrigation infrastructure so affecting their food growing ability causing hardship. (1950+)
         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea_1950-1953

         1955-1975
         Vietnam War
         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
         • Adrian Thornton 4.1.1.2.1

           6 December 2018 at 1:07 pm

           “seems like BAU savagery crops up throughout” exactly right, and great point, so by letting the media just eulogize HW Bush, with no reference to the devastation, destruction and misery HIS orders/policies and decisions have caused, just normalizes this type of brutal leadership.. it’s like, well you know he did some fucked up things, you know, lied out in the open, ran an openly racist political campaign, rained bombs on innocent humans etc etc..but you know, they all do it.

           But it is not normal to do these things to other human beings, that should be the message our media delivers today, well they could at least even hint at it FFS.
           How are we ever going to evolve to be better humans, when these idiots in the media don’t at least help a little to shine a path to a better more fair and just humanity? and worse, it seems a lot of the time our media is actually dragging us backwards.
           • greywarshark 4.1.1.2.1.1

             6 December 2018 at 1:23 pm

             Yes Adrian T
             My own thoughts. Won’t say more but it is interesting to be gently reminded to be nice because he’s dead and wait before criticising.
             There is a guidebook of etiquette on how long to extend the period of mourning and sanctity before acknowledging the truth, in a country of free speech?
       • One Two 4.1.1.3

         6 December 2018 at 2:40 pm

         No doubt you understand the mirage ‘must’ be maintained and carefully managed…

         Part of an obvious, and in recent times faltering, psychological operation…

         CIA Director GHW Bush…Strong family legacy of crimes against humanity…

         ‘Pappy Bush’
   • Johnr 4.2

     6 December 2018 at 9:23 am

     Good luck with getting a response to that.

     We forget that Moras Panel should be classed as light entertainment.

     If you’ve heard Moras wife on the radio you will realise that wee Jimmy hasnt been allowed to have an original thought for many years.
     • greywarshark 4.2.1

       6 December 2018 at 10:09 am

       Cherchez la femme. again!
     • Adrian Thornton 4.2.2

       6 December 2018 at 11:10 am

       I know I won’t get a response, no it more of a therapeutic action for me, helps release a bit of tension so I can get on with my day, which reminds me…
5. te reo putake 5

   6 December 2018 at 8:33 am

   A quick shout out to the good people of Blenheim. I accidentally left my phone on a bench in the main street. I went to the Police station, mainly to get a report recorded for the insurance claim, and was gobsmacked to find that some good citizen had handed it in a few minutes earlier.

   So thanks, Blenheim, you rock. For any readers who visit the town, my recommendation for coffee and eats is the truly wonderful Ritual Cafe, Maxwell Rd. If readers fancy a beer, the Waterfront (the old Royal) and the Yard Bar are the go. And if you lose anything, the local Police are definitely there to help.

   Better living, NZ!
   • greywarshark 5.1

     6 December 2018 at 10:13 am

     And while we are lauding Blenheim’s good points – a plug for Turkish restaurant Akbabas at 2 Maxwell Road, Blenheim. Good people and good food.
     https://www.akbabaskebabs.co.nz/our-story/
     • mac1 5.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 1:31 pm

       The good people of Blenheim thank you. There is a bit more to the town and the eateries and bars mentioned.

       There are craft breweries and bars, wineries, the PM has announced a year round version of the Coastal Express with upgraded train stations, great walks, tramps, fishing, hunting, and theatre.

       Just like the rest of NZ, really……..

       The main advantage though is a population of 45,000 in an area the size of Israel.

       Great weather and lifestyle attracts senior citizens and Marlborough has the highest numbers of senior citizens in the country per capita. With 1% of the country’s population Grey Power Marlborough has 9% of the nation-wide Grey Power membership.

       And no traffic lights!
       • Tuppence Shrewsbury 5.1.1.1

         6 December 2018 at 4:56 pm

         So 9% of the voices of boomer generation who owe the rest of us many thanks for being able to retire in sunny climes, while younger generations toil away unable to afford a decent house in colder and damper areas to pay for your retirement.

         Good to know what areas to be suspect of when the super issue is raised
         • mac1 5.1.1.1.1

           6 December 2018 at 7:21 pm

           I think, in your penny’s worth, that you may just have not realised that today’s seniors have paid taxes all their lives, I can recall 60% top rate being paid, and willingly, to pay for the generation that went before us who came out of the Depression era and were supported properly in their turn by us.

           So enough of the intergenerational rivalry crap, Tuppence. Envy will consume you, narcissism will afflict you, entitlement and consumerism eat at your very vitals.

           Respect your elders, Tuppence. After all, they reared you, taught you what you know, changed your nappies, tolerated your tantrums and excused your ignorance.

           As did my parents in their turn.

           If I didn’t think you were trolling, I’d pity you………
           • Jilly Bee 5.1.1.1.1.1

             6 December 2018 at 8:15 pm

             Thank you mac1 – husband and I are certainly part of that cohort – paid plenty of pretty high tax in our working life and still pay tax on our superannuation payments, withholding tax (however modest) and GST on day to day purchases.
         • Antoine 5.1.1.1.2

           7 December 2018 at 4:14 am

           Fuck off Tuppence

           If youre worried about your retirement, get off your lazy arse and start saving

           And I dont even come from Blenheim

           A.
6. Dennis Frank 6

   6 December 2018 at 8:36 am

   “Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offense and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Snowflake

   Growing up insulated by technology, this new generation gets traumatised by differences between people. Humans learn to socialise by living in communal environments. Gen Snowflake has matured without that learning, apparently. Now we are beginning to see political consequences of their tech-warp effect.

   “The term “Generation Snowflake”, or its variant “Snowflake Generation”, probably originated in the United States and came into wider use in the United Kingdom in 2016 following the publication of Claire Fox’s book I Find That Offensive!. In it she wrote about a confrontation between Yale University students and faculty Head of College, Nicholas Christakis. The confrontation arose after Christakis’s wife, Erika Christakis, a lecturer at the university, had suggested students should “relax a bit rather than labeling fancy dress Halloween costumes as culturally insensitive”, according to Fox. Fox described the video showing the students’ reaction as a “screaming, almost hysterical mob of students”. Fox said the backlash to the viral video led to the disparaging moniker “generation snowflake” for the students.”

   “Snowflake generation” was recognised as one of Collins Dictionary’s 2016 words of the year. Collins defines the term as “the young adults of the 2010s, viewed as being less resilient and more prone to taking Offense than previous generations”.

   “Similarly, in 2016 the Financial Times included snowflake in their annual Year in a Word list, defining it as “a derogatory term for someone deemed too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own, particularly in universities and other forums once known for robust debate” and noting that the insult had been aimed at an entire generation.”

   “The term snowflake has been used to refer to children raised by their parents in ways that give them an inflated sense of their own uniqueness. This usage of snowflake has been attributed to Chuck Palahniuk’s 1996 novel Fight Club, and its 1999 film adaptation. Both the novel and the film include the line “You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” In January 2017, Palahniuk claimed credit for coining snowflake, adding that the young adults of the 2010s exhibit “a kind of new Victorianism”. An article published by Merriam-Webster stated that Palahniuk was not the first person to use snowflake metaphorically, saying, “It’s the stuff of self-help books and inspirational posters and elementary school assurances. The imagery before negation is lovely; we are each unique snowflakes, each worth treasuring because each is uniquely beautiful.”

   So there’s a positive side, but. Everyone is unique. Just a question of acceptance being more sensible than self-promotion. And, given that Lasch’s diagnosis of the culture of narcissism (1979) applies to all generations born since WWII, this positive side isn’t really the point. Politics is a team sport, and those who play must conform to team rules. Gen Snowflake doesn’t want to play. Will they grow old apolitical? Or will their strident self-assertion constellate a common ground?
   • millsy 6.1

     6 December 2018 at 9:34 am

     The people who complain about snowflakes are the real snowflakes. They just need to realise that they have had enough and are not taking any crap anymore.
     • David Mac 6.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 9:59 am

       Yep, the most powerful force known to man, our attitude, our inner critic, our feelings.

       It’s easy to dismiss a trans person’s desire to be referred to as ‘she’. To them, it’s the foundation stone of their life.
     • greywarshark 6.1.2

       6 December 2018 at 10:18 am

       Snowflakes do tend to coalesce into a hard ball, soft individually but in your face, quite painful when they are in a mass.
       • indiana 6.1.2.1

         6 December 2018 at 10:48 am

         You mean like this…
         https://www.news.com.au/world/french-government-caves-to-pressure-after-worst-riots-in-decades/news-story/91fe1eeb0f444b3efe87fff4742e714c
       • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.1.2.2

         6 December 2018 at 5:05 pm

         Pretty painful individually too
     • AB 6.1.3

       6 December 2018 at 12:44 pm

       Totally – and the ones who sneer at supposed snowflakes are usually the ones imposing or benefiting from the crappy conditions that the snowflakes are complaining about.
       Just the usual human dynamic of power and domination by one person over another.
     • James 6.1.4

       6 December 2018 at 1:05 pm

       Most of us arnt complaining about them – we are laughing at them.
       • One Two 6.1.4.1

         6 December 2018 at 2:54 pm

         Why laugh at them, James?

         Does it make you feel ‘big’ around the bbq to ridiculing others ?….
         • James 6.1.4.1.1

           6 December 2018 at 5:35 pm

           Why laugh at them?

           Because they are very funny.
       • Bewilderd 6.1.4.2

         6 December 2018 at 3:36 pm

         I prefer soy boys as a classification to snow flake for the male variety
7. Kay 7

   6 December 2018 at 10:33 am

   Apparently people being “forced” into social housing is all about the burden placed on private landlords by this current government:
   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1812/S00056/govt-forcing-more-people-into-social-housing.htm

   “By setting up more roadblocks and hurdles for landlords, and raising compliance costs, many landlords have decided not to rent out their properties. As a result more people are forced to rely on publicly funded social housing.”

   Nothing to do with the fact that so many people are now priced out of the private market, and the social housing waiting list is now the longest it has ever been due the combination of a)this and b)the systematic sell-off of State Housing under the last regime? Simon O’Conner, your sudden concern for the vulnerable is touching.
   • David Mac 7.1

     6 December 2018 at 11:32 am

     I think the quote and your thoughts are 2 edges of the same sword Kay.

     One of the reasons people are being priced out of the private rental market is because landlords are considering “For it to be worth my while, I’ll need to up the rent $150 on my place.”

     Our current government rest on: ‘It’s a supply and demand thing, we’re in this mess because the other jokers did nothing for a decade’. This does absolutely nothing about addressing the problem and is entirely about ‘Don’t blame me, it’s his fault.’

     I try hard to be an optimist, but I’m struggling with our housing outlook. National passed a law requiring all landlords in NZ to insulate their rentals by July 31st next year. Those that don’t can expect heavy fines and if called out, required to pay exemplary damages to tenants that take their non complying landlord to the tribunal. For some tenants, the largest cash sum they’ve ever had in their lives.

     Up in the Far North where the landscape is rich and job prospects poor, many families live in older simple baches that the owners were using less for holidays as their kids found other things to do. Rather than sell many hang on to them for the next generation of kids, for 3 generations to spend Christmases there. In the meantime, many have become low cost housing for those of us that live up here on tight budgets.

     I’m concerned for the many people up here in the sub-tropical Far North that come next July, will be living in illegal houses.
8. Herodotus 8

   6 December 2018 at 11:07 am

   really …
   Newshub can reveal he didn’t even run that past the Prime Minister, and understands she only found out about it while watching our TV story.
   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/12/exclusive-pm-jacinda-ardern-to-review-housing-minister-s-kiwibuild-house-flipping-penalty

   https://www.labour.org.nz/housing
   “KiwiBuild homes will only be sold to first home buyers. To avoid buyers reaping windfall gains, a condition of sale will require them to hand back any capital gain if sold on within 5 years.”
   So a Labour election pledge was broken by 2 labour ministers (Tywford & Robertson) and then re instated by the PM.
   When should an election promise be kept and when is it ok to break a promise ??
   • Sacha 8.1

     6 December 2018 at 12:02 pm

     “Newshub can reveal .. ”

     An awful lot of opining in that story but not much evidence.
     • Herodotus 8.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 12:13 pm

       What that min Tywford announces that there would be a reduced 3 year cap gain time limit, that he had no authority to make, that was also in conflict with an election promise. That our PM also was not aware of.
       Not sure what else anyone needs to know but I am open to hear alternative views
       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12156833
       Here is a link to the changes that the govt made.
       “But speaking to media this afternoon, Twyford said the Government had changed the rules.“ so who is this government that had changed the rules ??
       • Sacha 8.1.1.1

         6 December 2018 at 12:19 pm

         The reporter’s statements like these have only her reckons to support them:

         “Ms Ardern is unimpressed”

         “The public didn’t like Mr Twyford’s rorters rule, but he probably didn’t realise his boss agreed.”
         • Herodotus 8.1.1.1.1

           6 December 2018 at 12:36 pm

           But the link I supplied ex nzherald had a quote from min Tywford. “But speaking to media this afternoon, Twyford said the Government had changed the rules.”
           The GOVERNMENT (my bold not shouting” so the government is at odds with he PM ??I am confused, does the PM not agree with her government?
         • Herodotus 8.1.1.1.2

           6 December 2018 at 12:36 pm

           But the link I supplied ex nzherald had a quote from min Tywford. “But speaking to media this afternoon, Twyford said the Government had changed the rules.”
           The GOVERNMENT (my bold not shouting” so the government is at odds with he PM ??I am confused, does the PM not agree with her government?
           • Sacha 8.1.1.1.2.1

             6 December 2018 at 12:38 pm

             My problem is not whether several Ministers changed a policy, but with unsubstantiated allegations about how the PM feels about it.
   • Herodotus 8.2

     6 December 2018 at 1:54 pm

     Newshub has deleted my link here is their latest link
     https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/12/exclusive-pm-jacinda-ardern-to-review-housing-minister-s-kiwibuild-house-flipping-penalty.
     Not to sure why my initial link doesn’t work.

     “but with unsubstantiated allegations about how the PM feels about it.” not sure how I can assist. I imagine our PM is unimpressed as
     How can a minister change the rules which was in breach of the Labour manifesto
     How can we, the voter trust Labour to keep their promises ?
     But I imagine any lack of justification will be taken as Labour lied to us.
     • Sacha 8.2.1

       6 December 2018 at 2:10 pm

       “*I imagine* our PM is unimpressed as”

       which is a much more honest way of putting it.
       • Herodotus 8.2.1.1

         6 December 2018 at 2:17 pm

         Glad I was able to work that out
         • Sacha 8.2.1.1.1

           6 December 2018 at 8:14 pm

           A future in journalism beckons.
   • alwyn 8.3

     6 December 2018 at 11:46 pm

     You are being quite unfair to Ms Ardern by suggesting that she wasn’t involved in the decision.
     She was going to consider the matter as soon as she had settled the most important thing on her agenda.
     https://spy.nzherald.co.nz/spy-news/pm-reveals-plans-for-baby-neves-first-xmas/
     I’m sure that as soon this is sorted out, which shouldn’t take more than a couple of weeks, she will look at what Twyford has been up too.

     What do trivial things like Kiwibuild matter anyway? After all, when people see the places they don’t buy them and refuse to go through with the purchase.
     Perhaps someone can explain to me how studio apartments can really be affordable at $380,000 or one bedroom places at $500,000 are “affordable for first home buyers” anyway?
     Is that really meant to get young families into homes, as Twyford promised?
9. bwaghorn 9

   6 December 2018 at 12:20 pm

   With all the Santa hood ha of late I though some here would be interested to know that little old reatihi lead the way with last years Santa being a Maori woman. Not a ripple was made . Good a?
   • Antoine 9.1

     6 December 2018 at 12:36 pm

     Tonight I asked my kid “What race is Santa?”

     He immediately responded “A dwarf”

     A.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1

       6 December 2018 at 3:27 pm

       Curious about the context of that peculiar ‘father-to-son’ question.

       https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/17/santa-claus-black-white-christmas-race-debate-fox-news
     • OnceWasTim 9.1.2

       6 December 2018 at 4:07 pm

       Poor kid!
       • Antoine 9.1.2.1

         7 December 2018 at 12:42 am

         Well, I was curious what he would say, and I thought it was a very good answer.

         A.
10. A 10

    6 December 2018 at 12:41 pm

    Figures. It sounded dodgy from the start….lots of Chinese needed desperately to built high rise. Whatever.

    One thing I can’t stand is these people who think themselves about the law saying things like, “there’s nothing you can do”. Nothing? Nothing at all?

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/377614/chinese-construction-workers-brought-to-nz-believe-they-ve-been-conned
    • Exkiwiforces 10.1

      6 December 2018 at 1:21 pm

      There has been a couple of cases here in Australia, where the Unions and various State and Federal Government Departments have gone in to bat for the Chinese workers and have come down hard the companies/ firms that have employed the Chinese workers over wages and entitlements. Further investigations by the Unions involve and the relevant Government Dept’s have also found that the worker are here illegally because of breaches in their Visas obtained by the companies that the poor workers are working for.

      During the last mining boom and the current up lift in mining atm, a number of companies are trying to bring Chinese workers to help construct the various mining projects to keeps cost downs aka wages and WHS etc. But the Unions have kept this in check so far.

      So without strong Unions and strong Government Departments in NZ this is going to happen in a regular basis unless the Unions and Government isn’t prepared to step up enforce or strengthen the various laws and ensure that the NZ workers get a fair go/ deal. The same could be said IRT to training future NZ workers in whatever trade discipline he or she chooses as would also further erode pay and conditions and WHS which quite possibly lead to further outcomes like these Chinese workers atm.
11. Ad 11

    6 December 2018 at 12:56 pm

    Great to see Canada acting on Huawei by arresting their CFO Meng Wanzou, for extradition to the US.

    now can they please arrest Zuckerberg for distorting global democracy itself.

    Ideally China should do that arrest to make it all even.

    Await a major diplomatic war.
    • Dennis Frank 11.1

      6 December 2018 at 1:08 pm

      “Wanzhou Meng, the deputy chair of Huawei’s board and the daughter of company founder Ren Zhengfei, was arrested in Vancouver, the Globe and Mail reported. The arrest was at the request of US authorities. “Wanzhou Meng was arrested in Vancouver on December 1. She is sought for extradition by the United States, and a bail hearing has been set for Friday,” US Justice department spokesperson Ian McLeod said.” https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/109139920/huaweis-chief-financial-officer-arrested-in-canada

      Interesting that they sat on the news for five days. Maybe China threatened Canada with feng shui if they didn’t release her & Canadian experts took a while to evaluate the threat.
    • francesca 11.2

      6 December 2018 at 3:32 pm

      Arresting her for what the EU is planning to do , trade with Iran and get around the sanctions

      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/05/meng-wanzhou-huawei-cfo-arrested-vancouver

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/05/european-union-dependence-on-dollar-to-be-reduced-under-new-proposals
12. Ad 12

    6 December 2018 at 1:05 pm

    Luxembourg is about to make all public transport free.

    What actions did NZ declare at the climate conference this week?
    A little investment fund worth $100m?

    FFS
    • Graeme 12.1

      6 December 2018 at 7:39 pm

      Close to free in Queenstown, $2.00 anywhere with a GO Card.

      https://www.orc.govt.nz/public-transport/queenstown-buses/fares-and-gocards

      Not for CC reasons unfortunately, but because it was cheaper to heavily subsidise the service than try and increase network capacity. There’s a few places (Frankton Road is one) where that’s not possible.

      One line I heard was that the $2.00 charge is only there because NZTA didn’t have a way of doing it for free. $2.00 would hardly cover the costs of handling the money anyway.
      • Ad 12.1.1

        6 December 2018 at 7:50 pm

        I guess Queenstown is to New Zealand what Luxembourg is to Europe.

        Got to start somewhere; you gave a good example.
13. Professor Longhair 13

    6 December 2018 at 1:14 pm

    Help Wikileaks sue the Grauniad
    for publishing that slander by Luke “Fuckwit” Harding.

    https://www.gofundme.com/wikileaks-suing-the-guardian-over-manafort-story

    [Removed the extraneous guff, Moz. And please look up the definition of journalist. It’s not what you think it is. TRP]
    • Antoine 13.1

      6 December 2018 at 1:17 pm

      What the h*ll is this comment supposed to be?

      A.
      • Professor Longhair 13.1.1

        6 December 2018 at 1:25 pm

        The comments are the first dozen or so messages of support on the petition page in support of Julian Assange and free speech and journalism. Sorry, I should have tidied up all the little admin. odds and ends, but the message is clear, I think: a lot of people want to see the Grauniad face consequences for its fraudulent reporting, i.e. its flagrant disinformation campaign against someone who is, in stark contrast to the likes of Emma Brockes and Luke Harding and James Ball, a real journalist.
        • David Mac 13.1.1.1

          6 December 2018 at 1:30 pm

          Do you want me to donate money towards a threat to freedom of speech by prosecuting someone for speaking freely?

          Are you Morrissey?
          • Professor Longhair 13.1.1.1.1

            6 December 2018 at 1:39 pm

            Do you want me to donate money towards a threat to freedom of speech by prosecuting someone for speaking freely?

            You don’t understand what criminal libel is.

            Are you Morrissey?

            Morrissey Breen was a student of mine some years ago.
            • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1.1

              6 December 2018 at 1:48 pm

              You don’t understand what criminal libel is.

              no longer part of UK law?
              • joe90 …

                6 December 2018 at 1:54 pm

                noice
            • Grant 13.1.1.1.1.2

              6 December 2018 at 2:01 pm

              “Morrissey Breen was a student of mine some years ago.”
              That explains a lot.
            • David Mac 13.1.1.1.1.3

              6 December 2018 at 2:18 pm

              Yes you’re right, I don’t understand what criminal libel is….If it’s criminal I’m thinking it’s a matter for the Police to look into and I already make a regular donation to them.

              A student, ahhh that explains it, I’ve not seen anyone else use the term ‘Grauniad’.
              • Andre …

                6 December 2018 at 2:28 pm

                I think he’s referring to a bit of self-tutelage.
                • Sacha …

                  6 December 2018 at 8:22 pm

                  Finds it refreshing to have someone to agree with, even if only a sock.
                • Antoine …

                  7 December 2018 at 12:44 am

                  > I think he’s referring to a bit of self-tutelage.

                  Self abuse more like

                  If it’s a sock it’s a sticky one

                  A.
              • Morrissey …

                6 December 2018 at 5:07 pm

                I’ve not seen anyone else use the term ‘Grauniad’.

                That’s because you don’t read Private Eye.
        • francesca 13.1.1.2

          6 December 2018 at 3:04 pm

          I would certainly like to see the Guardian taken to account for publishing unverifiable tabloid bullshit that suits the aims of those who want to take Assange down
          Take Assange down and all journalists worth the name are in the firing line.
          For those who still can’t get it past their faulty belief system, Assange is a journalist

          https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/jun/02/julian-assange-martha-gelhorn-prize

          https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-28/assange-accepts-journalism-award/3698076

          https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2017/04/indexawards2008-wikileaks-economist-new-media-award/

          and of course played a pivotal part in the publication of the Wikileaks Files

          He’s still an honorary member of the Australian Journalist’s union
    • Morrissey 13.2

      6 December 2018 at 5:02 pm

      Removed the extraneous guff…

      “Extraneous”? I would have thought that the supportive comments of those democratically minded lovers of journalism was the very heart of this matter. The attempt to destroy Assange is an attempt to silence all of us.

      And please look up the definition of journalist. It’s not what you think it is.

      Ha! We know what your idea of a journalist is.

      “Cathy Newman is a fine journalist….”

      —Te Reo Putake, 23 Jan. 2014

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23012014/#comment-761926
      • te reo putake 13.2.1

        6 December 2018 at 5:20 pm

        Crikey, you had to go all the way back to 2014 for that zinger? I’m impressed I haven’t said anything more recent you could have used. btw, shutting down a media organisation is not what “democratically minded lovers of democracy” do.

        Meanwhile, in real journalist news, here’s some dead people:

        https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/dec/05/journalists-murdered-khashoggi-kuciak-panama-papers
        • Morrissey 13.2.1.1

          6 December 2018 at 5:23 pm

          The Grauniad is, sadly, a propaganda arm of the British state.

          I don’t think it should be closed down, but I certainly think that liars like Luke Harding should be fired, and also that rubbish editor. Rubbisher’s his name, isn’t it.
          • Bewildered 13.2.1.1.1

            6 December 2018 at 8:16 pm

            I Agee with your “ I don’t think “ Mozz after that you lost me
14. Dennis Frank 14

    6 December 2018 at 1:20 pm

    Just a reminder that democracy is just as much part of the problem as capitalism: “The report estimates CO2 emissions will rise by 2.7% in 2018, sharply up on the plateau from 2014-16 and 1.6% rise in 2017.” https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/05/brutal-news-global-carbon-emissions-jump-to-all-time-high-in-2018

    “The International Energy Agency’s data also shows rising emissions in 2018. Its executive director, Fatih Birol, said: “This turnaround should be another warning to governments as they meet in Katowice this week.””

    Why bother giving govts more warnings? Since when has that ever worked? “The “dark news” of rising emissions is merging with two other alarming trends, according to Prof David Victor, at the University of California, San Diego, in an article with colleagues also published in Nature on Wednesday.”

    “Falling air pollution is enabling more of the sun’s warmth to reach the Earth’s surface, as aerosol pollutants reflect sunlight, while a long-term natural climate cycle in the Pacific is entering a warm phase. Victor said: “Global warming is accelerating. [These] three trends will combine over the next 20 years to make climate change faster and more furious than anticipated.””

    “The Global Carbon Budget, produced by 76 scientists from 57 research institutions in 15 countries, found the major drivers of the 2018 increase were more coal-burning in China and India as their economies grew, and more oil used in more transport. Industry also used more gas. Renewable energy grew rapidly, but not enough to offset the increased use of fossil fuel.”
    • KJT 14.1

      8 December 2018 at 9:03 pm

      “Democracy” is NOT the problem. Over 80% want action on Anthropogenic global warming.

      It is the lack of Democracy!
15. Exkiwiforces 15

    6 December 2018 at 1:26 pm

    A couple of interesting reports IRT to CC, one on the ice melt in Greenland and the other the NZDF and likely CC effects they NZDF is now likely to in counter as the science starts to firm up its evidence IRT CC.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/109130891/climate-reality-check-greenland-ice-melt-speeds-up

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-12-06/greenland-ice-sheet-melting-accelerating/10581980

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/109067137/defence-force-we-need-to-prepare-for-climate-change

    P.S I’ve just noticed that old mate from No Right Turn has posted the same thing.
    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2018/12/climate-change-threat-to-our-security.html
    • Exkiwiforces 15.1

      6 December 2018 at 3:07 pm

      Here is an article from Scoop and has a PDF link I haven’t gone over yet.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1812/S00063/defence-assessment-on-climate-change-and-security-released.htm
16. joe90 16

    6 December 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Awa’ an’ bile yer heid ‘n’ pick a windae, yer leavin’ wi’ yer foodbank, ye piece o’ tory jobby . *

    .
    ANGRY protestors chased Scotland’s only Conservative MP out of town after he turned up to open a food bank.

    Protestors shouted “Shame on you” and screamed at Scottish Secretary David Mundell after he sneaked out the back door of the Trussell Trust-operated facility in the Dumfries and Galloway town.

    They surrounded the white Ford Focus motor he was in, which had to slowly edge its way through the raging mob with the help of a police escort.

    People banged on the windows and at first refused to let the vehicle move, until four uniformed police officers arrived to part the crowd.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/watch-angry-protesters-chase-scotlands-6130021?
    • Jum 16.1

      6 December 2018 at 3:02 pm

      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-33612612

      sounds just like the film I Daniel Blake. Privileged idiots creating hell on earth for those without an influential voice.

      Lucky for english and key that those living in cars and recorded as having a roof over their heads didn’t turn up at parliament in protest, but the first rule of destroying opposition to poverty fightback is to remove the means, so they could not afford the petrol. Unlike the tractors and the trucks, all backed by big money to attack Labour Governments.
17. ianmac 17

    6 December 2018 at 2:21 pm

    Funny atmosphere in QT today. Subdued? Quiet? Questions delivered and answers polite and full. Though the Paula Bennett attack about “leaking” the address of the estranged wife, the Opposition were told repeatedly that the said women did not seek or accept secrecy. So Bennett and Woodhouse were chasing a non target.
    • Ad 17.1

      6 December 2018 at 2:54 pm

      With any Parliamentary opposition dead until at least 2020,
      a popular government,
      really low unemployment,
      lots and lots of money to spend,
      and the most progressive legislative agenda New Zealand has had in 50 years, well ……………………………………..

      ……………………. maybe we’re running out of things to complain about!
      • Antoine 17.1.1

        7 December 2018 at 8:57 am

        Great that the housing crisis is over, a relief

        A.
    • veutoviper 17.2

      6 December 2018 at 3:35 pm

      It was a good show by Peters and Hipkins in Q1 and 2. Bennett was left suitably put in her place.

      Links to the videos and more re what was said in my comment here.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/double-down-protect-parliament-ban-bridges-for-a-month/#comment-1559140
18. ianmac 18

    6 December 2018 at 3:26 pm

    “Protecting the Umpire
    by Andrew Geddis
    Did you know that Parliament could imprison you for saying that Trevor Mallard is biased in favour of Jacinda Ardern over Simon Bridges? But it (almost certainly) won’t….

    …So, for example, consider political editor Audrey Young’s published account of Thursday’s events in the Herald: “Parliament’s Speaker, Trevor Mallard, has an inbuilt bias against National Party leader Simon Bridges and a soft spot for Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.” Such a public accusation of overt favouritism on the part of the Speaker likely could be punished as a contempt, if Parliament wanted to do so….”

    The MPs who flout the rules cannot expect to get away with it though.
    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/protecting-the-umpire
    • Exkiwiforces 18.1

      6 December 2018 at 3:44 pm

      Would love to see that happen now and again to certain individuals, just to keep everyone on their toes and just the GG the Speaker does some awesome/ powerful rules/ powers in their playbook that a lot of people don’t know unless you are like old mate Andrew Geddis..
      • ianmac 18.1.1

        6 December 2018 at 4:47 pm

        Suppose a clever lawman like Young Simon or for that matter Old A Young would know the rules, unless their aim is the Dead Cat thing.
        Audrey is pretty biased herself isn’t she?
        • ianmac 18.1.1.1

          6 December 2018 at 5:07 pm

          Now I am wondering if, behind the scenes today, something is happening to the Leadership. After all, Simon did declare Jamie as the Leaker in spite of his denial and now Simon’s judgement must be in further question. Might explain the deflated National Caucus today? No histrionics and few interjections
          • Exkiwiforces 18.1.1.1.1

            6 December 2018 at 6:32 pm

            Yes it was very quite today and it does make you wonder if someone had a very quite word to the”No Mates Party” members about yesterday’s antics?
            • mac1 18.1.1.1.1.1

              6 December 2018 at 10:03 pm

              Certainly some-one should have! The Speaker also showed firm control again today, and with the double dismissals yesterday, the bullies of the opposition
              got shown the consequences of thoughtless, undisciplined and self-centred behaviour.

              It raises the question, though, who would be counselling Bridges and Brownlee, the opposition leader and shadow leader of the House? The National Party president? English? Key? Shipley? Bulger? The Business Round Table? Australian bankers? American oil interests? Insert your national/international conspiracy theory here?
19. Jum 19

    6 December 2018 at 6:03 pm

    So Gracie managed to make it through South America, yet she’s missing in NZ. This is seriously a very nasty place for women. Hopefully, all women are looking for her. Hoping for a good outcome.
    • James 19.1

      6 December 2018 at 8:16 pm

      I think we all wish for a happy outcome for this.
    • Bewildered 19.2

      6 December 2018 at 8:20 pm

      I don’t think you can back your stat up and I am sure all good nz men which are by far the majority are praying for a good outcome here as well
      • Antoine 19.2.1

        7 December 2018 at 12:44 am

        > Hopefully, all women are looking for her

        Seems vaguely unlikely

        A.
20. joe90 20

    6 December 2018 at 7:18 pm

    Seating arrangement.

    https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/3cce83d8-b882-4ad5-8e33-0364b8d10b0d.png
21. Eco Maori 21

    7 December 2018 at 12:17 pm

    On a whano duties to busy to post opinions Ka kite ano
22. eco maori 22

    7 December 2018 at 5:47 pm

    The Public servants had predicted that there m8 would win big boxes of tissues were required after the election .Ka pai Jacinda .
    Public servants responsible for the transition between governments failed to support new ministers as no-one had planned for a full scale, new administration.Officials were caught on the hop after last year’s general election, having planned for change no greater than a Cabinet reshuffle – that caused problems like being unable to supply laptops and mobile phones and a lack of experienced staff for incoming ministers
    I see it been 2 years since the BANKERS MAN shonky got pushed out of our Parliament .links below ka kite ano

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377521/beehive-caught-off-guard-by-change-of-government
    • eco maori 22.1

      7 December 2018 at 7:53 pm

      P.S Thanks to NZFirst & The Greens to for flipping out the neo liberals capitalists party Ka pai ka kite ano
23. eco maori 23

    7 December 2018 at 6:42 pm

    Kia ora Newshub I say that the education systems needs a big shake up for the money invested we are not getting very good results for the lower classes of students minority cultures are not even getting a 30% pass rate into a higher paying jobs we have to import those skills and in the process the lower classes youth are ending on the scrap heap.
    The Westpac Helicopter serves is run by retired WHO guess and you will be correct Eco Maori nemeses they have the same raciest attitude to because he is out of the force he has lost his suppression cover .
    We must keep our bio security up and keep the threats out of Aotearoa it will destroy our farming and horticulture.
    I say Lady Ga Ga and Bradleys movie A Star Is Born is a awesome move you know the old saying silence about a problem is like rot it just keep’s snowballing into a big mess if you watch the movie you will get what I getting at.
    Mann I see how the justice system works I will be doing a post on this subject later Hollie .
    There you go trump spraying wai on the rest of the World the good Chinese lady from Huawei being arrested in Canada wtf trump and his admin does not give a stuff about Aotearoa’s well being they just want to cling to power weather .
    The Yemen crises has more string attached than that it is a big proxy war Mess and the poor children are dieing in there tens of thousands probley hundreds of thousands as they cover up the facts idiots.
    Lloyd that will be a good movie he must not have been looking in the correct place A .
    lol E hoa Ka kite ano
24. eco maori 24

    7 December 2018 at 7:26 pm

    Kia ora from Storm & Anna The Crowd Goes Wild .
    Wai it should be a good boxing match .
    The Gypsies did have a very good come back fight when one thinks of the time he had off boxing is a sport were one needs to be quite fit to go the distance .
    Ka pai to the Black sticks.
    Storm the preseason training seams quite strenuous .
    Brad Weber had a good season I have had a couple in the club .
    I was hoping you did a story on Shawn I gave him a bit of Eco tau toko and he pihau one with any intelligence knows it takes two to have a problem enough said.
    Ka kite ano
25. eco maori 25

    7 December 2018 at 8:52 pm

    I had to got to Auckland on Whano duties and the sandflies know exactly why and the still swarm around us endangering my mokopunas they don’t give a stuff . They get there m8 to play cat and mouse with me —-me off trying to get my license taken off me the PEE heads ano to kai ka kite ano P.S only the wealthy get justice us poor people just get shit on by this system

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