Open mike 06/08/2015

92 comments on “Open mike 06/08/2015 ”

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1. mickysavage 1

   6 August 2015 at 7:15 am

   Good graphic. Hiroshima day today, time to remember mankind’s potential for utter brutality.
   • Morrissey 1.1

     6 August 2015 at 7:22 am

     And the regime that committed this ultimate crime is lecturing others about human rights seventy years later.
     • Charles 1.1.1

       6 August 2015 at 7:47 am

       Hmmm. 20/20 vision, and all that. The Pacific War was no cakewalk. The Japanese were no pushover, or the surrendering kind. Both sides displayed admirable virtues taken to a destructive extreme – and faced impossible choices. What happend, happened, and can’t be undone. Better to focus on the lessons these days, not the justifications.
       • Crashcart 1.1.1.1

         6 August 2015 at 7:56 am

         None of that addresses the US using a weapon of mass destruction on a civilian population. Even now their justification that it ended the war and saved lives is baseless.

         The Japanese didn’t surrender because of the bombs. There were statements made that they didn’t see the difference between losing a whole city to one bomb or to a night of fire bombing as happened in Tokyo earlier in the war.

         Their surrender was a result of Russia positioning to directly invade Japan. Seeing what was happening to surrendering soldiers on the eastern front after VE day Japan’s leaders realised they faced a far better chance if they surrendered to the US before the Russian’s landed.
       • Stephanie Rodgers 1.1.1.2

         6 August 2015 at 10:00 am

         or the surrendering kind

         Nice mythmaking. There was no strategic value in nuking Japan except to prevent them surrendering to the Russians first.
         • Switts 1.1.1.2.1

           6 August 2015 at 10:22 am

           The extreme reluctance of Japanese soldiers to surrender is no myth. There are numerous examples to back it up. Not saying your wrong about the US wanting Japan to surrender to them rather than Russia. No doubt the US wanted that.
         • McFlock 1.1.1.2.2

           6 August 2015 at 11:43 am

           One interesting thought I came across while studying it was that the nukes were dropped simply because nobody really considered not dropping them.

           The resources put into the Manhatten project and the B29, the prospect of invasion against resistance, it promised to be a quick option, the research data that would be generated, Stalin repositioning… basically, no historian has ever found a memo or diary note asking “should we obliterate a city with a single bomb: pros, cons…”. The question doesn’t seem to have occurred to anyone.
           • freedom 1.1.1.2.2.1

             6 August 2015 at 11:59 am

             You mean apart from the Szilard Petition
             http://www.dannen.com/decision/pet-gif.html
             http://www.dannen.com/decision/45-07-17.html with all 69 co-signatories
             • McFlock …

               6 August 2015 at 1:05 pm

               Yeah, if they’d had some generals and cabinet officials on it, rather than it being put in the round filing cabinet and then most of them getting kicked out of weapons work, you might have a point.

               The question was never raised in decision-making circles. That petition didn’t even make it one step on from the recipient to the president.
               • Colonial Rawshark …

                 6 August 2015 at 1:56 pm

                 the bomb was dropped, at least partly, for Stalin’s benefit.
                 • McFlock …

                   6 August 2015 at 2:21 pm

                   That was one reason the state department was for it.
                   Ensuring a speedy and unconditional surrender from Japan was another.

                   The military were concerned about casualties from an invasion, and looked forward to having their new toy demonstrated.
                   They also needed to demonstrate the fruits of the massive programmes that were needed to develop the bomb and the delivery system (B29).

                   the navy was happy to have a siege, as it had obliterated most maritime transport by that stage, but the air force was going for gold.

                   Specific cities had been deliberately untouched by conventional bombing so they could act as testbeds – a possible contingency option that became a fate accompli.

                   Industry could see justification for continued development, and by that stage the nuclear programme was employing hundreds of thousands across several states.

                   That’s just off the top of my head – there were lots of reasons nobody would question the assumption that the bombs would be dropped on cities.
         • Tracey 1.1.1.2.3

           6 August 2015 at 5:42 pm

           I have spoken to a few different Japanese citizens over the years who state that many Japanese blame the Emperor for NOT surrendering earlier. As a result some still refuse to sing the parts of their national anthem which refers to the emperor.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

       6 August 2015 at 10:23 am

       While:

       1. Helping Israel to commit human rights atrocities
       2. Invading other countries thus committing their own human rights atrocities
       3. Still believe in the childish might is right BS that most of us grow out of before we’re five

       I really wouldn’t be bothered by the bombing of Hiroshima today if anybody had learned the lessons from it but it’s obvious that the US and many others simply haven’t.
   • freedom 1.2

     6 August 2015 at 11:25 am

     There are many books on the topic (a gross understatement I know) but three I would recommend, to offer a diverse view of the events and the aftermath of Hiroshima, are the following publications.

     Day of the Bomb by Dan Kurzman

     Dark Sun by Richard Rhodes

     Faces of Hiroshima by Anne Chilsolm

     No matter how many words get written, films get made or discussions that occur, the truth of the matter is thus:

     “Memory and imagination, not nuclear weapons, are the greatest deterrents.”
     -Martha Gellhorn
2. Morrissey 2

   6 August 2015 at 7:15 am

   Hypocrisy watch: Mike Hosking is now opposed to privacy.
   His lamentable television show gets worse every night
   Seven Sharp, Television One, Wednesday 5 August 2015

   First topic tonight: the controversy following the shooting of Cecil the lion….

   MIKE HOSKING: By the outpouring of rage and hate, you’d think the end of the world had happened.
   TONI STREET: To most of us it looks repulsive and utterly wrong, but on the other side of the world, does a Twitter storm mean anything?

   ….. Cue sententious sound track, with shots of protestors’ placards, “ROT IN HELL”, “EVIL MONSTER”, an earnest Californian voice saying: “We should really SHAME these people.”….

   MIKE HOSKING: ….And now this American accountant Sabrina Corgatelli rubbing salt in the wounds with provocative posts, ….bragging about shooting a giraffe. …. So I spoke to Daryl Crimp, he’s the editor of the Fishing Paper and Hunting News. Daryl, is there an underbelly of people opposed to hunting in this country?
   DARYL CRIMP: Of course we have social media today, which makes it very easy for keyboard warriors to hide behind a screen and bash off things without actually thinking about what they’re saying.
   HOSKING: So what are the rules around hunting? When you shot Cecil, is it uncool or not? What’s good, what’s not?
   DARYL CRIMP: Well, he shouldn’t be called Cecil in the first place. No name is a good name for a lion. Hunting plays an important role in animal welfare. …. It’s a question of perception. I don’t judge other people. ….
   HOSKING: Is there an irrational emotional attachment, do you think? I mean, it’s like, everyone likes pandas, everyone loves lions, no one seems to get upset about shooting a pig.
   DARYL CRIMP: Also nobody seems to get incensed about the wanton killing and genocide of huge numbers of PEOPLE in Zimbabwe, where Cecil, um, lives. [As he says that, Hosking smiles ruefully.] It’s what we call bambi-ism, I mean the scientific name for it is anthropomorphism, and it’s simply putting human attributes and emotions on to an animal. It makes it easier for you to become detached from reality.

   …..

   HOSKING: See, you agree with that, don’t you! We all agreed with him.
   TONI STREET: [giggling plaintively] I was BULLIED into agreeing with you!
   HOSKING: You are Russia at the Security Council. You have the veto, the permanent veto.

   So, even when he is trying to be clever, Hosking shows how ignorant he is. If he had any knowledge of politics or history, he would have said, “You are America at the Security Council.” But this is Mike Hosking, and as is painfully apparent almost every time he speaks, or writes his Year 9-standard opinion pieces in the Herald, he knows little or nothing about anything.

   …………..

   At the end of each episode of this ghastly program, there is a brief sub-sophomoric homily, one from each host. Toni Street went first tonight, delivering a stern little lecture about the way that students spend all their student loan money on partying—at least, she giggled, that’s how she and her friends treated their “free money” when they were at university ten years ago. Her solution? Well, it comes straight from the ACT Party’s moronic policy platform: a voucher system for books.

   If that was bad, worse was to follow. Hosking’s homily consisted of a spittle-flecked rant against “the madness that is the privacy law in this country.” He sneered at the “earnest do-gooders” who believe in the ridiculous and thoroughly outdated idea of privacy. “Justice minister Amy Adams talked today about the privacy law and its omnipresent ability to hamper our efforts against domestic violence. She is RIGHT!”

   Of course, Mike Hosking’s newfound enthusiasm for trashing privacy laws almost certainly stems not from any principle, but from nothing more than his partisan support for the National Government. Not long ago, he was singing a very different tune……
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11481552
   • Paul 2.1

     6 August 2015 at 8:39 am

     Watching 7 Sharp is beyond the call of duty.
     • Tricledrown 2.1.1

       6 August 2015 at 1:15 pm

       Or if you like to watch narcissistic numpties out jerk each other
   • repateet 2.2

     6 August 2015 at 9:37 am

     Hosking has competition and that’s why he’s trying so hard.

     He is trying to out-Jeremy Jeremy Wells. Hosking hasn’t worked it out yet and he’s just trying too hard.
   • ianmac 2.3

     6 August 2015 at 9:38 am

     Cecil the Lion was covered by Joe Bennett yesterday in the Dominion. Can’t find it online. I suspect that Hosking plagerised Joe’s column. Same idea plus the rather miserable death awaiting aged lions and the money that Zimbabwe makes from hunting. I am rather surprised at the huge raging against the hunter and for the first time ever sort of agree with Hoskings and Bennett even if Hosking did steal his lines from another.
   • Ron 2.4

     6 August 2015 at 2:04 pm

     Stop watching it you are giving every indication that you are masochistic
3. Coffee Connoisseur 3

   6 August 2015 at 8:02 am

   many parallels here in New Zealand given the way our brown brothers are overrepresented in our prison population and when it comes to employment,

   http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/race-baiting-101/

   United we stand divided….. we get more and more of the same as we have right now.
   • Charles 3.1

     6 August 2015 at 8:52 am

     That’s an interesting video, CC. Continuing the trend of his sentiment,

     From an interview with Chris Rock, November 30, 2014.
     http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-rock-frank-rich-in-conversation.html

     “…So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he’s the first black person that is qualified to be president. That’s not black progress. That’s white progress. There’s been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship’s improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, “Oh, he stopped punching her in the face.” It’s not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn’t. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let’s hope America keeps producing nicer white people….”

     The whole interview is quite long, but it covers not just Civil Rights, but his wider political beliefs, being a parent, and style of comedy.
4. freedom 4

   6 August 2015 at 10:12 am

   https://agrihq.co.nz/article/latest-price-threatens-break-even?p=35

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/64313213/debt-a-big-hurdle-to-breaking-even

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/251084/lower-payout-could-cost-farmers-$1-point-8b

   Those three articles are just ‘first off the rank’ pickings from last year in a simple search using “$6 a kilo break even”. The tone is unequivocal. As Dairy fell below $6 a kilo there was concern about the financial position confronting many dairy farmers and the flow-on affects upon the economy.

   A year on and RNZ has today reported that nine out of ten farmers are now collecting new debt to cover their losses.

   New borrowing means more costs to the farmers. Farmers who are openly admitting that paying off any principal debt is a fantasy. Take into account the ongoing increases in costs of living, that farmers are not magically immune to, and that $6 a kilo break even point from last year has probably risen a bit. This not only increases the hardship these families are facing and all the stresses that go with that, but contain potential to do very real harm to the economic proceeds delivered to the country by the dairy sector.

   Bill English will remind us how dairy is only one part of a bigger picture but he will still be demanding these farmers pay their taxes. Taxes are important. They pay for a lot of things. One of the things they pay for are Rural Assistance Payments that WINZ has had a growing number of applications for. I am not suggesting that farmers should not get help to feed their families and pay the rent. I mention it to point out if more and more farmers are already operating below the acknowledged break even point of $6 a kilo, borrowing even more money to only pay debt interest and needing to go to the Government for living assistance, they are probably borrowing money to pay the taxes on those farms.

   If, as reported last year, prices of $6 a kilo were going to take an estimated 1.8 billion out of the economy, how many billions are going to be lost when the price hits a figure below $4? How much of our tax take in the coming years is not going to be paid by a farm’s earnings but from interest bearing debt?
5. Pat 5

   6 August 2015 at 10:23 am

   $6 a kilo was the bank figure that farmers were expected to do their budgets on…the break even point will vary greatly from operation to operation…..there is another factor that has been greatly ignored to date and that is the land value which in this part of the world has steadily risen to over 45k a hectare on the back of a $7 plus return…..with a projected approx 4-5 dollars for the foreseeable there will be a huge correction with all the associated consequences of the writedowns……1980s all over again
   • freedom 5.1

     6 August 2015 at 11:01 am

     I agree the break-even figure is widely variable but it has been used by all the players as a stable benchmark for quite a while now.

     Even reporting back in 2008 references the figure as a breaking point for many operations. Other reports from that period also carry strong warnings about numerous risks to new players who might not have the embedded security of more established farm operations. Since 2008 there have been even more new players enter the sector and all the new debt that goes with it. In 2008 there were warnings about the risks to the sector of a $6 a kilo payout, so just how bad is it really getting for those operations who thought they were onto a winner but are staring down a figure that might begin with a 3?

     Naturally the banks saw the potential and dished out the dosh to all and sundry who wandered in. It’s what banks do, they create debt markets. Look at student debt for proof of concept. So what happens next? Well maybe the fact we have a new bank in NZ that is focused on ‘helping’ the agriculture sector is enough proof that before long those debts farmers are struggling with today are going to turn into debts they can no longer handle tomorrow and the feeding frenzy will begin. It will not be pretty. As Blinglish drifts along, dreamily recalling the heydays of the 80’s, I cannot help but notice reality standing over him angrily waving a ‘class of 87’ placard.
   • DH 5.2

     6 August 2015 at 11:34 am

     Good points Pat. If they borrow the $45k they’d likely be paying around 6% interest which would cost $2700 per hectare.

     What’s the typical annual milk yield per hectare… anyone know?
     • freedom 5.2.1

       6 August 2015 at 12:24 pm

       According to DairyNZ, during the 2013-2014 year NZ Dairy Farmers worked 1.7 million hectares.
       They report NZ surpassed 20 billion litres of milk production.
       This produced 1.83 billion kilograms of milk solids

       That makes roughly 11765 litres a hectare (rounded up)
       or 1077 kilograms of solids per hectare (rounded up)

       http://www.dairynz.co.nz/news/latest-news/2013-14-dairy-season-one-of-the-best/
       http://www.godairy.co.nz/the-big-picture/facts-and-figures (dairynz)
       • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1

         6 August 2015 at 12:31 pm

         that’s half their pay out gone servicing a loan!
         • freedom 5.2.1.1.1

           6 August 2015 at 1:49 pm

           It is not just the farmers taking on more debt. No matter how accountants and investors spin it, issuing bonds is ‘taking a loan’. Loans are debts. Debts have to be paid and Fonterra have around a half billion of bonds’ debt to pay off by 2021. When its due they’ll just issue more bonds and shuffle things round, but it’s just borrowing from Peter to pay Paula.

           Remember: According to the Government, dairy is not in crisis!

           I ‘guesstimate’ tomorrow’s announcement is likely to be in the region of $3.85 a kilo.

           The May 2015 auction delivered an index rate of 714 with Fonterra forecasting a payout including dividends of $4.40.

           So when August 2015’s auction produces an index of only 515 does anyone really expect a payout rate above $4?

           Even at $4 that is 33% below the oft referenced break even point of $6, yet the payout rate is likely to be even lower!

           Fonterra have little leeway to soften the impact of diminishing returns from the recent auctions. Even if they decide to drink deep to artificially sustain the industry and managed a payout of $4 – $4.20 the sector is still facing a [roughly] 50% collapse in dairy payouts in only the last twelve months.

           And the Government says our dairy industry is not in crisis?

           http://www.globaldairytrade.info/en/product-results/
           http://www.fonterra.com/nz/en/Financial/Farmgate+Milk+Price
6. marty mars 6

   6 August 2015 at 11:59 am

   Armstrong gives those opposed to shitkey the lowdown

   “John Key had a simple line and he stuck to it whatever question was asked.”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11492611

   This is actually the deep and meaningful insight into key. He keeps it simple and continually answers the question HE wants, no matter what the actual question asked.

   How to combat that approach?

   Ridicule – keep asking the same question and make fun of the nonsensical answers
   Distain – “reeealllly Prime Minister, thaaat is your answer?”

   Of course the journos could do it but they won’t so maybe the opposition could give it a try???
   • Barbara 6.1

     6 August 2015 at 2:22 pm

     Hi MM – I agree with you entirely, I have just read the editorial in the Herald and Jesus wept I now know why I cancelled my Herald on the Monday after the last election. Bloody unbelievable that they are allowed to print such drivel – if the paper’s can be “managed” and told what to print then I can see eventually a police state on the horizon a comin’ complete with tasers and their new weaponry which they have ordered to keep the great unwashed under control. Also I have found in the past 4-5 months that Q & A and The Nation are just as crappy as well. I tape them and watch them on the Sunday and find I am frequently fast forwarding entire segments as they are just cringe worthy rubbish. It wonderful about John Campbell getting a prime slot on RNZ – but I fear they may “get to him” on that station as well but I wish him all the luck in the world.

     Until the lazy disengaged segment of NZ start looking for news and information off grid of the MSM we will continue to have this corrupt lot in power. I realise only too well that most of the work force are underpaid, overworked, travel home late at night zonked out tired with kids to care for which is how the Govt likes it to be for obvious reasons and I am sure they just plonk themselves down in front of the TV and watch that lunatic Hoskings – but I still cannot understand for the life of me how they can just sit there tired as they are and just soak it in every night. The Speaker of the House should be sacked and Labour needs Andrew Little to get a heap more of the”cut the crap” back and counter Key much more assertively – even reptiles can be squashed if the will is there. I never really thought we would have corrupt elections but I think for this next election it should be a manual paper vote and keep the electonic jiggery out of it – the whole system of government right now just stinks.

     Martyn over on The Daily Blog had a great saying on one of his editorals this week – “We are a junvenile country with the maturity of a can of coke” – it sums up this country so well – my parents are turning in their graves as I write this at the state of our lack of democracy and the lack of interest a whole segment of the citizenry have in it.
     • Barbara 6.1.1

       6 August 2015 at 2:25 pm

       oops there – a spelling error in the last paragraph – it should read juvenile.
       • wyndham 6.1.1.1

         6 August 2015 at 3:10 pm

         A more balanced view on the Saudi fiasco from Vernon Small over at Stuff.
         I think John Armstrong (and probably his editor) need to seriously consider his well-being. Really, some of his contributions are going beyond being rational.

         http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/70841852/saudi-farm-deal-a-creative-solution-too-far-for-new-zealands-good-name
   • Tracey 6.2

     6 August 2015 at 5:45 pm

     it’s also a deep and meaningful insight into journalists allowing him to dictate.
7. marty mars 7

   6 August 2015 at 12:20 pm

   Been interesting and enlightening to see the hate on Susan Devoy here recently. I opposed her appointment and worried about the benefits of her appointment and she was still appointed. Devoy has made some calls and I say good on her for that – I happen to agree with a few of them and disagree with others.

   The recent smattering of anti devoy shit is because she made a call on labour’s twyford Little racist dog whistle – funny that those deriding her now because she called out their stuff would have been there in the day cheering her on and saying, “I’m so proud (sniff sniff) to be a Kiwi now that we are the squash champion of the world”.

   Devoy is a work in progress – kia kaha for that. The whingers are pathetic in their dim perceptions, selective memories and general overall awfulness – get over yourselves ffs.
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     6 August 2015 at 12:34 pm

     political tribalism blinds
   • b waghorn 7.2

     6 August 2015 at 12:51 pm

     Would you be chairleeding for her if she had said that she saw nothing racist in labour use Chinese names to point out the overseas investment problem.?
     • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1

       6 August 2015 at 12:52 pm

       +1
     • marty mars 7.2.2

       6 August 2015 at 1:19 pm

       I’d put that one into one of the ones I disagreed with – hardly mind bending stuff – I’m sure I wouldn’t call her names and abuse her for giving it a go – I love watching the hypocrisy of bullies – such cowards.
       • Paul 7.2.2.1

         6 August 2015 at 2:14 pm

         Yet you appear more than willing to name call at will.
         Even in this thread you have used terms like ‘whinger’, ‘bully’, ‘coward’, ‘pathetic’.

         Pot.
         Kettle.
         Black?
       • marty mars 7.2.2.2

         6 August 2015 at 2:28 pm

         Yep no mercy for netbullies – sorry if that offendith thee
       • b waghorn 7.2.2.3

         6 August 2015 at 5:48 pm

         Fair enough .
         With it taking her so long to comment it makes me wonder that at best she’s waited to see which the wind was blowing first.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.3

     6 August 2015 at 12:52 pm

     The recent smattering of anti devoy shit is because she made a call on labour’s twyford Little racist dog whistle

     And that call was as wrong as the one you made. It wasn’t racist, it was simply the facts that we need to make informed decisions.

     funny that those deriding her now because she called out their stuff would have been there in the day cheering her on and saying, “I’m so proud (sniff sniff) to be a Kiwi now that we are the squash champion of the world”.

     Actually, I never knew who she was and really couldn’t give a shit. I am concerned that she doesn’t appear to be up to doing her job. She could grow into it and she has made some good calls but this ain’t one of them. In fact, this seems to be a political call rather than a truth call.
     • marty mars 7.3.1

       6 August 2015 at 1:16 pm

       “And that call was as wrong as the one you made”

       yawn sigh yawn
       • Colonial Rawshark 7.3.1.1

         6 August 2015 at 2:42 pm

         I’m still waiting for the next round of polls to possibly confirm that Labour flamed out over their Chinese gambit and it did zero for them electorally.
         • Paul 7.3.1.1.1

           6 August 2015 at 2:50 pm

           If we don’t discuss the underlying issues behind Auckland’s spiralling house prices, it’s only going to get worse.
           Overseas speculators are part of the problem.
           We should be able to talk about this.
           • Chooky 7.3.1.1.1.1

             6 August 2015 at 2:55 pm

             +100 Paul
             • Paul …

               6 August 2015 at 2:58 pm

               It almost seems as if CV does not want this conversation to happen.
               • Colonial Rawshark …

                 6 August 2015 at 3:15 pm

                 If we’re going to have a conversation about it then lets have a conversation about steps which are actually going to reduce Auckland house prices to affordable levels.

                 Not just banning overseas investors from buying, but also banning overseas investors from owning. Making houses impossible to profit on in terms of speculative capital gains. Heavily limiting bank lending on everything except a primary home. Driving population growth out of Auckland.

                 But no one has the guts to do anything except point fingers at the Chinese and that won’t achieve fuck all result in bringing Auckland house prices back under $500K.
                 • Paul …

                   6 August 2015 at 3:22 pm

                   I agree with all of your suggestions.
                   I would add the reinstatement of a massive state housing programme and the nationalisation of Fletcher Building, which forts millions out of I it’s monopoly position.
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     6 August 2015 at 3:42 pm

                     I’m with you on that too; we need a very far ranging conversation on how our economy and the government treats housing going forward. My cynicism from Labour having picked one populist angle but after weeks I still don’t see them fronting on the more difficult elements of a comprehensive programme.

                     Can you imagine them going to the middle class electorate and saying – these great house prices you’ve been relying on to fund your retirement portfolio – that’s over now, we’re going to put a stop to it.
                   • marty mars …

                     6 August 2015 at 3:54 pm

                     It almost seems as if CV does want this conversation to happen.
                   • Paul …

                     6 August 2015 at 4:13 pm

                     The Labour Party shouldn’t be scared to upset those people. They are the very people who have been voting National for the reason their house prices have gone up so they feel richer thanks to Key.
                     But for the vast majority, they would love to hear a party attacking the buy to rent brigade.
                   • greywarshark …

                     6 August 2015 at 4:25 pm

                     @Paul
                     How do you see Fletcher getting so much out of the system. Could you spell it out? I have heard that much of our timber is exported and NZs have to pay export prices for it. That Fletchers argue this is because they have to hold a certain amount back for NZs, and to sell it at NZ prices reduces their potential profit!
                 • tinfoilhat …

                   6 August 2015 at 4:16 pm

                   Making too much sense as usual CV.
                   • greywarshark …

                     6 August 2015 at 4:26 pm

                     @ tinfoilhat
                     Stirrer.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   6 August 2015 at 4:28 pm

                   If we’re going to have a conversation about it then lets have a conversation about steps which are actually going to reduce Auckland house prices to affordable levels.

                   But when Labour started such a conversation you all cried racist immediately stopping the conversation.
     • Chooky 7.3.2

       6 August 2015 at 2:57 pm

       +100 DTB
     • Anne 7.3.3

       6 August 2015 at 3:17 pm

       … she has made some good calls but this ain’t one of them. In fact, this seems to be a political call rather than a truth call.

       100% right. Remember who appointed her? Judith Collins. Devoy was put there to follow an agreed path laid down by her benefactor. Then the unthinkable happened. Collins lost her ministerial post. But be certain Devoy is still getting “guidance” from said benefactor. I want to lay a complaint about Ms Devoy because she is clearly lacking in comprehension and objectivity – as has been evident on more than one occasion – and I suspect she is not acting independently of the Nat government.

       Anyone care to advise me the name of the appropriate person is address the complaint to?
       • Chooky 7.3.3.1

         6 August 2015 at 4:44 pm

         +100 Anne
8. half crown 8

   6 August 2015 at 12:31 pm

   This is why the power companies have to be re nationlised like NOW. It is a too important bit of infrastructure to be in the hands of the fucking spivs. Should have not been sold off in the first place.
   Take them back no compensation get rid of the likes of Shipley of failed Mainzeal fame, now chair of Genesis Energy, and tell the rest to fuck off.
   Genesis had the fucking cheek to put the standing charges up by 79% last year, and again by 10% this year As Arther Dailey (Minder) would say ” a nice little earner” and we are the fucking mugs who have no choice but to pay these arseholes.

   “If the smelter had cut its expected load, the power industry would have faced a big glut of power, and wholesale prices would have slumped.
   However others said that if that had happened, the industry would have shut down more power stations to reduce the supply.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/70875427/genesis-to-close-last-two-coalfired-power-units-at-huntly
9. Molly 9

   6 August 2015 at 12:35 pm

   Apparently, fast-food workers got a $15/hr agreement recently in the US. A paramedic took to Facebook to share that they also got $15/hr.

   I’m a paramedic. My job requires a broad set of skills: interpersonal, medical, and technical skills, as well as the crucial skill of performing under pressure. I often make decisions on my own, in seconds, under chaotic circumstances, that impact people’s health and lives. I make $15/hr.

   And these burger flippers think they deserve as much as me?

   So far, so predictable… I thought – then Jen Rushings continues:

   Good for them.

   Look, if any job is going to take up someone’s life, it deserves a living wage. If a job exists and you have to hire someone to do it, they deserve a living wage. End of story. There’s a lot of talk going around my workplace along the lines of, “These guys with no education and no skills think they deserve as much as us? Fuck those guys.” And elsewhere on FB: “I’m a licensed electrician, I make $13/hr, fuck these burger flippers.”

   And that’s exactly what the bosses want! They want us fighting over who has the bigger pile of crumbs so we don’t realize they made off with almost the whole damn cake. Why are you angry about fast food workers making two bucks more an hour when your CEO makes four hundred TIMES what you do? It’s in the bosses’ interests to keep your anger directed downward, at the poor people who are just trying to get by, like you, rather than at the rich assholes who consume almost everything we produce and give next to nothing for it.

   Worth reading the whole item. But also good to hear the conversation going in a direction other than that we are now frustratingly used to.
10. David H 10

    6 August 2015 at 12:45 pm

    Breaking News John Campbell has joined Radio NZ as the drive time host

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/280641/john-campbell-to-join-radio-nz
    • Ovid 10.1

      6 August 2015 at 12:51 pm

      I approve. I thought he’d go to Radio NZ and this is a prime spot.
    • Paul 10.2

      6 August 2015 at 12:51 pm

      Does that mean the end of Mora’s panel?
      • weka 10.2.1

        6 August 2015 at 2:27 pm

        Unfortunately no. But it looks like it might be curtailed a bit,

        .Campbell’s arrival dovetails with Jim Mora’s wish to focus on presenting The Panel while his Checkpoint co-host, Mary Wilson, has been promoted to a senior news management role.

        Mora said he was looking forward to working with Campbell, Afternoons host Jesse Mulligan and being able to focus on The Panel.

        “I’ve been talking about it with Paul Thompson for a while, even before John came into the mix. We have new kinds of interactive ideas, listener-driven, that we want to develop. This gives me the time to do that. The Panel has built up the largest talk audience in New Zealand between 4 and 5 in the afternoon and we’re proud of that.”
11. Tricledrown 11

    6 August 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Drive time is 5 to 6.30.
    Mora’s drival will continue no doubt.
    • Paul 11.1

      6 August 2015 at 1:02 pm

      Yes, now up.

      ‘Checkpoint host Mary Wilson has also been promoted to a senior news management role, while her co-host Jim Mora will focus on presenting The Panel.

      “I’ve been talking about it with Paul Thompson for a while, even before John came into the mix,” Mora told RNZ.’
      • Ron 11.1.1

        6 August 2015 at 2:19 pm

        Very convenient the only decent journalist on the RNZ staff gets promoted out of the way into ‘management’

        ‘Checkpoint host Mary Wilson has also been promoted to a senior news management role
        • Paul 11.1.1.1

          6 August 2015 at 2:21 pm

          Yes wish she could take the morning show instead of Guyon and Suzie.
          • Chooky 11.1.1.1.1

            6 August 2015 at 4:58 pm

            +100 “Guyon and Suzie” …yes boring, boring …and more ‘nact patsies’ ( have already got into trouble once today for using that term on Susan Devoy..ha ha…over her accusing Labour of being racist …and Winston…who said i think “Two wongs don’t make a right”…Susan said this was racist too…lol…)

            maybe I should have said “pasties”?..or jam tarts
12. Ad 12

    6 August 2015 at 1:30 pm

    I seriously cannot understand why the collective Opposition hasn’t geared up for a sustained attack about the Government’s inaction about the dairy industry and Fonterra in particular.

    Our largest company and exporter by a country mile is in a perilous state, taking 80% of New Zealand’s dairy producers with it.

    The Shareholders meeting tomorrow will determine a fresh Board majority, Chair, and a fresh strategic direction for the company and for all of those farmers.

    The payout is going to be well below $4.00, and will remain so for the next few years as far as all analysts are saying.

    Labour may well wish to remain religiously sector-neutral in its industry development stance, but they seriously need to wake the hell up in a hurry.

    The rural sector, and most of the provincial towns and cities, are going to be devastated for years to come over this payout. It will quickly come down to selling stock, culling, selling farm machinery, restructuring loans, then foreclosures and inevitable suicides.

    Labour, Greens, NZFirst: work together on this one.

    There is so much the government could have done over the last few years to partner with Fonterra and to act in the common interests of New Zealand. Other than the glorious failure of TPPA.

    Fonterra’ future and of NZ dairy is the most important economic issue facing New Zealand for the next decade, and if Fonterra slips further, we are permanently weakened as a country.
    • Paul 12.1

      6 August 2015 at 2:15 pm

      +100
    • freedom 12.2

      6 August 2015 at 2:22 pm

      +1 Ad
      a cynic might say ‘almost like it was planned to, decades ago’
    • Draco T Bastard 12.3

      6 August 2015 at 4:38 pm

      Fonterra’ future and of NZ dairy is the most important economic issue facing New Zealand for the next decade, and if Fonterra slips further, we are permanently weakened as a country.

      What a load of bollocks. Best thing we can do is drop a huge amount of agriculture and start actually developing out economy. Keeping agriculture as such a dominant part of our economy is what’s weakening it and our society.
      • Ad 12.3.1

        6 August 2015 at 5:51 pm

        Your love of Soviet-style Great Leaps Forward is well known.

        But let me give you a taste. Just a taste.

        On the West Coast, about 400 people are about to lose their jobs in the coal industry from Solid Energy’s collapse. That’s on top of the other mine closures there in the last two years.
        On top of that is the 170 Kiwirail jobs that will go because there’s no business using the trains.
        On top of that is all the contractors that help those mines operate.

        And this impacting three small towns with less than 4,000 people in them each, towns on the West Coast, all of which were going backwards already.

        People may well believe coal to be a sunset industry. Fine.

        But with no plan to assist nearly 1,000 families keeping the wolf from the door, all you have is massive societal damage.
        Call it a Structural Adjustment, a Great Leap Forward, whatever, the result is the same. Damaged people. Damaged families. Dole queues. Generations afterward also damaged. Stuff Labour governments stand up to help.

        Now, it would be great to wave a wand a say, oh, bulk milk is a sunset industry. Fine.

        Replay the West Coast scenario over every part of rural New Zealand. No plan. Plenty of suicides. Marriage breakups. Foreclosures. Walk-offs. Towns in accelerated decline.

        Adjusting the economy is not an armchair exercise. In fact, we used to have unions to stop such Great Leap Backward nonsense.

        Put your armchair wand-waving away for once, and face the reality and damage actual families are going through. Any good government would. Any good human would.
        • b waghorn 12.3.1.1

          6 August 2015 at 6:00 pm

          The insanity of there not being a sustainable logging industry on the west coast just leaves me shaking my head.
          If 1 log was removed per hectare every twenty years and taken to a finished product on the coast it would invigorate the economy there.
        • Draco T Bastard 12.3.1.2

          6 August 2015 at 6:41 pm

          Where the hell did all that come from? I said we shouldn’t be putting all our faith in agriculture and that we should be developing our economy which, as a matter of fact, would actually do all that you want. I just don’t believe in the efficacy capitalism to achieve that.
          • Ad 12.3.1.2.1

            6 August 2015 at 10:02 pm

            it came from that foreign place called reality.
            • Draco T Bastard 12.3.1.2.1.1

              6 August 2015 at 11:20 pm

              No, really, it didn’t.

              In that spiel you’re essentially saying that we need to continue as normal despite the fact that BAU has conclusively proven that it doesn’t work.
    • Chooky 12.4

      6 August 2015 at 5:35 pm

      +100 Ad…have to agree that the Opposition need to get cracking and take a lead and show up jonkey nactional ..ie “Labour, Greens, NZFirst: work together on this one”

      …for a start forge markets with Russia for dairy products like cheeses and butters …NZ dairy which is grass fed is of the highest quality …and the Russian market has been open to us

      I for one do not want to see dairy farmers go to the wall …and their land bought by foreigners…they need urgent financial assistance to weather this crisis, diversify and find new markets

      …as well they need help to protect the environment..as well as the waterways ….not have their land sold up and carved up for excessive population growth
13. ianmac 13

    6 August 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Mora says he looks forward to working with John??? And Mary has been promoted to senior news management.
    Is Mora still on the 5-7pm slot?
14. Smilin 14

    6 August 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Why is it Key thinks that serving the nation is serving himself , we should call his bluff he doesnt know this country hasnt worked it since 1987 and then only to facilitate a financial crash and support Roger the Rip off and his financial fuckin of this nation
    He came here to cover up the biggeest financial con in history the 2008 9/11 Crash of the worlds finances and bring Austerity /slavery and the too big to fail bail out and validate the Crimes against our Democracy committed by his associates
15. Lynda Brown 15

    6 August 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Sad to see Mary Wilson go – she is always sharp and incisive. John Campbell talks far too much for us to expect a decent interview. His questions longer than the answers!
    • Chooky 15.1

      6 August 2015 at 4:53 pm

      maybe Mary Wilson wants/needs a change…yes she is great!…but maybe she is going on to better things at senior management level?….John Campbell is also superb on radio

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/201765428/john-campbell-talks-about-joining-radio-nz
    • Karen 15.2

      6 August 2015 at 5:28 pm

      I agree, Lynda.
      John is great for some kinds of interviews, but when it comes to cutting through the bullshit and PR-speak there is nobody as good as Mary Wilson. I shall miss her.

      Glad Jim Mora will no longer be on the 5-7pm slot, however. The Panel is easily avoided, but checkpoint is an important news source for me than was devalued by Mora;s presence.
16. Gosman 16

    6 August 2015 at 4:36 pm

    Looks like the Syriza’s government has made things a lot worse in the country with their stubbon refusal to accept the need for reform till the very last minute.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/03/greek-shares-nosedive-as-manufacturing-data-reveals-economic-crisis

    This was all avoidable if they had simply agreed to stick to previous agreements rather than seeking to renegotiate.
    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      6 August 2015 at 4:40 pm

      No, it wasn’t Syriza that made things worse – it was the Troika acting to protect the wealth of the rich at the expense of the poor.
    • Paul 16.2

      6 August 2015 at 6:52 pm

      Greece, Zimbabwe, Venezuela…
      Care to discuss issues in New Zealand instead?
    • halfcrown 16.3

      6 August 2015 at 6:52 pm

      Oh here we go again, Hey pal why don’t do a bit of in depth reading to expand that neo fuckwit mind of yours. see Open Mike 4.8.15 #21
      • Pat 16.3.1

        6 August 2015 at 9:05 pm

        fat chance….Gosman isnt big on allowing facts to intrude upon his dogma
17. Anno1701 17

    6 August 2015 at 4:37 pm

    The developer John Lenihan has made a submission to Auckland Council to remove the last piece of protection that stands between the trees and the chainsaws!

    John Lenihan will be presenting to the Unitary Plan Independent hearings panel to remove the Significant Ecological Area (SEA) overlay from the area where the Paturoa Kauri remains.

    If he succeeds it sets a dangerous precedent for the entire nation and removes all tree protections that currently exist at ‪#‎SaveOurKauri‬ 40 & 42 Paturoa Rd Titirangi

    We will be attending,

    Level 16 / Tower 1 / 205 Queen st,
    this coming Monday the 10th August at 3:30pm.

    What do the developers have to say for themselves?

    Will they keep the promise they made to the people of Aotearoa New Zealand and save these trees from the chainsaw?
    Come along if you can make it. The developers cannot be allowed to sneak this through.

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