This is bound to cause comment. The Daily Mail recently ran an article confirming what many already know, that right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers. After the article there is 1,001 comments offering further evidence that this proposition is, without doubt, correct.
“In psychological terms, the relation between intelligence and prejudice may stem from the propensity of individuals with lower cognitive ability to endorse more right wing conservative ideologies because such ideologies offer a psychological sense of stability and order.”
In simple terms a right winger responds to a new situation with fear while a lefty responds with curiosity.
This is a bit of an oversimplification. There are two basic types of right winger, and this article only deals with one of them.
I’ve always thought that the problem with righties isn’t that they are dumb, it’s that they are selfish. The right wing philosophy is built on the idea of taking care of yourself and your own, and refusing to accept any responsibility for anyone else. A whole bunch of people all trying to make themselves into islands, in other words.
There’s the (usually) rich intelligent right wingers, who know exactly what they are doing – i.e. trying to set everything up in their favour so they get all the rewards, and then making sure they don’t have to share them with anyone else. They are not dumb, they’re just selfish and proud of it.
Then there’s the (usually) poor and dumb righties who can’t ever aspire to have the wealth of their counterparts, but like the disregard for others that characterises the right wing when this is directed at groups of people they dislike (anyone who’s not like them).
Lefties are the types who recognise that we are all interconnected, and what affects your neighbours affects you. It’s a complex system of feedback and you can’t cut yourself off from everyone else no matter how hard you try.
The dumb righties are too stupid to recognise that, and the smart ones are in denial about anything could ruin their pure vision of themselves as the centre of their own universe.
This is not to suggest that all conservatives are stupid. There are some very clever people in government, advising politicians, running thinktanks, writing for newspapers, who have acquired power and influence by promoting rightwing ideologies.
But what we now see among their parties – however intelligent their guiding spirits may be – is the abandonment of any pretence of high-minded conservatism. On both sides of the Atlantic, conservative strategists have discovered that there is no pool so shallow that several million people won’t drown in it. Whether they are promoting the idea that Barack Obama was not born in the US, that manmade climate change is an eco-fascist-communist-anarchist conspiracy or that the deficit results from the greed of the poor, they now appeal to the basest, stupidest impulses, and find that it does them no harm in the polls.
So there are various sectors amongst right supporters but the message is being dumbed down to appeal to one sector only. The rest just nod and wink and enjoy the benefits.
Just to show I am an equal opportunity stirrer Monbiot also questions why in the face of such stupidity the left do not do better. In particular:
But when I survey this wreckage I wonder who the real idiots are. Confronted with mass discontent, the once-progressive major parties, as Thomas Frank laments in his latest book Pity the Billionaire, triangulate and accommodate, hesitate and prevaricate, muzzled by what he calls “terminal niceness”(9). They fail to produce a coherent analysis of what has gone wrong and why, or to make an uncluttered case for social justice, redistribution and regulation. The conceptual stupidities of conservatism are matched by the strategic stupidities of liberalism.
Yes, conservatism thrives on low intelligence and poor information. But the liberals in politics on both sides of the Atlantic continue to back off, yielding to the supremacy of the stupid. It’s turkeys all the way down.
Cheap oil Easy credit selects for selfish intelligent rightwing.
Expensive energy hard credit selects for selfish intelligent rightwing.
Changing times selects for selfish intelligent left wings.
???
the left creating order and certainty means they lay foundations for convervatists.
My observation is that it isnt so much a left / right wing split in intelligence but relates to your view on religion
Those that are heavily religious are generally (but not always) of low intelligence…
Conservatives – particularly in the USA are generally religious and are classified in the ‘right’ bucket in the study hence causing the relationship
Also the following quotes in another article on the same study (link below) are interesting:
“So a smart person (all else being equal) will probably be in favour of capitalism generally, and free-trade in particular. He or she will distrust state intervention in the markets, probably be suspicious of welfarism and deeply dislike protectionism, union closed-shops and tariffs. The smart person will believe that the have-nots should be encouraged to become haves by dint of their own labours and by the levelling of economic playing fields, NOT by taking money off the haves and giving it to them.” – In simple terms – for capitalism = smart, against it = dumb(er)
“This matches other findings that show that IQ correlates not with left-wing thinking as such, but with classic Enlightenment liberalism.”
[lprent: Why change emails and handles (including capitalization) all of the time? This is the 4th or 5th change since November. It just means that a moderator has to go to the effort of releasing you from first time moderation each time it happens. It is a lot of effort for us to go to checking that you aren’t banned and aren’t someone trying to hijack your identity because you can’t remember a e-mail and how to spell a name. Please settle on one and stick to it before we stop releasing them. ]
Understood – my details dont seem to save therefore have to re-enter them hence change handle as the mood dictates….didnt appreciate it caused a hassle on yourside – apologies
The details are stored in cookies on your systems. They get sent to the server when you pick up a page so the details can be auto filled in. If you have set it to not take cookies at your browser then that would be the cause. It could also be oneof the more irritating Internet security systems.
If that isn’t intentional, then my usual advise is to simply use a different browser. Some of them (Internet explorer) are just a pain in the arse. Currently google chrome or Firefox are pretty good and available on most platforms.
I’m running an IQ of around 140. I used to be right-wing but then I looked at the facts, considered the theory and it’s assumptions, realised that the free-market was complete BS and became a radical lefty.
What makes someone right-wing is a complete denial of reality either because it doesn’t suit their selfishness or because they’re stupid.
Probably being a bit harsh there DTB. Many people are simply ill informed.
The deliberate propaganda program by the right and there wholly owned media means that people have to dig deep to get unbiased information.
Those that are heavily religious are generally (but not always) of low intelligence…
That’s complete and utter nonsense. It may make you feel superior, but any proof you provide (and I see that you don’t actually provide any) will probably amount to a link to Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins and his ‘Brights”. Meaningless.
Conservatives – particularly in the USA are generally religious and are classified in the ‘right’ bucket in the study hence causing the relationship
As is that. There’s no proof that conservatives are generally religious – even in the USA, although many of them certainly claim that they are..
“So a smart person (all else being equal) will probably be in favour of capitalism generally, and free-trade in particular. He or she will distrust state intervention in the markets, probably be suspicious of welfarism and deeply dislike protectionism, union closed-shops and tariffs. The smart person will believe that the have-nots should be encouraged to become haves by dint of their own labours and by the levelling of economic playing fields, NOT by taking money off the haves and giving it to them.” – In simple terms – for capitalism = smart, against it = dumb(er)
Please note that educated people don’t use smart and dumb as synonyms for clever and stupid. Using dumb = stupid, is a juvenile insult against those with communication disabilities.
Proof for my statement re a link between IQ and religion (or at least supporting evidence) was in my link. I have re pasted below. I should have included in my post…apologies
“Other studies have found correlations between strong religiosity (a traditional marker of conservatism) and low intelligence”
And my statement that a large component of the right wing conservative / tea party / republican movement in the US is highly religious isn’t one I thought would need me to provide supporting evidence for.
Given the aggressive nature of your response I take you believe in a higher power!
Given the aggressive nature of your response I take you believe in a higher power!
That doesn’t compute… I would love to know why you associate aggression with religion! Have you had bad experiences with religious people, maybe?
And my statement that a large component of the right wing conservative / tea party / republican movement in the US is highly religious isn’t one I thought would need me to provide supporting evidence for.
Right… having sorted out your grammar, no, I still don’t agree – because you seem to have ignored the bit where I said that they claim to be highly religious. Someone will leap in and scream “No true Scotsman fallacy’ at me, but whether you/they like it or not, true Christians/Muslims would never have a bar of tea party prejudice and war-mongering.
Bwahahahahahahaha snort hahahahahahahaha guffaw snort hahahahahahahahahaha snort snort hahaha… Troubles in Northern Ireland hahahahahahah The Crusades hahahahaha The Inquisition hahahahahaha snort the Moorish and Ottoman invasions hahahahahahahahahaha the Albigensian Crusade hahaha…. The Massacre of the Huguenots hahahaha… Shall I go on? What are your meds? I want some….
Clopidogrel and Lipitor (Atorvastatin)… sure you want some?
Yours is a pretty silly answer really. For every (allegedly) religious war you can name, I can name 3 that have no (allegedly) religious motivation. It seems to me that many atheists are black and white thinkers, subtleties escape them – but even Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins and his fanbois have been known to admit that they know perfectly well that The Troubles (for instance) are political, with a gloss of religion to provide ‘respectability’…
but even Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins and his fanbois have been known to admit that they know perfectly well that The Troubles (for instance) are political, with a gloss of religion to provide ‘respectability’…
Wtf exactly do failures in drug testing do to drug companies being myopically focused on profit have to do with braindead ideological excuses for conflict?
And every time this subject (and reproductive rights) comes up your brain goes to custard and you make downright stupid arguments in amongst the occasionally smart ones.
As for the “black n white” quip, repeat after me, “the plural of anecdotes is not data”. Also, how the fuck is empiricism black and white thinking, when the supporting arguments involves multiple lines of philosophical inquiring, including teh always perturbing natures of inference?
@Populuxe1
/fractal-facepalm
Stat’s indicate that overall IQ scores show no statistically significant difference between atheists/religious, it’s only when looking at various sects that statistically significant differences appear. Predominantly with charismatic and/or conservative evangelical sects.
Which you’d already know if you read the fucking research.
Apologies for my first sentence, I’m still getting over some mild food poisoning and after work was rather brainless for a while on top of feeling crap-ish.
@Populuxe1
/fractal-facepalm
Stat’s indicate that overall IQ scores show no statistically significant difference between atheists/religious, it’s only when looking at various sects that statistically significant differences appear. Predominantly with charismatic and/or conservative evangelical sects.
Which you’d already know if you read the fucking research.
Better face palm again NickS – at no time did I make such an assertion. I was commenting on Vicky’s rather rose-tinted view of Christian history Which you would know if you read the fucking post
Proof for my statement re a link between IQ and religion (or at least supporting evidence) was in my link. I have re pasted below. I should have included in my post…apologies
“Other studies have found correlations between strong religiosity (a traditional marker of conservatism) and low intelligence”
Hmm, don’t know about that. I’m pretty much a 6th level atheist but I’ve met some profoundly smart people who are profoundly religious.
Perhaps I hang out in the wrong circles, but I don’t think we in NZ have large numbers of the sort of fundies that the U.S. does – with a few notable exceptions obviously.
Listening to the U.S tea-party types it can be very hard to tell where nationalism ends and religion begins. I get the impression they’d consider it unpatriotic to not identify as religious. Religious kiwis by and large don’t fall for that sort of conflation of church and country.
Sure we have God’s name in the anthem and we throw around platitudes like “godzone” a lot more than I’d like, but religious kiwis don’t tend suffer from the delusion that god has somehow charged our nation with a special mission on earth.
Saying you’re religious in NZ may mean something quite different to saying it in parts of the U.S. where it often seems to be used as a sort of shorthand for being fond of democracy, freedom, and the American way of life.
I also have to agree with Vicky about people in power claiming to be religious for political reasons. This is another road we haven’t gone down in NZ where even our highest level politicians can say they’re religious or a bit religious or not religious at all (varying from day-to-day in John Key’s case) and no-one really cares too much one way or the other.
I think what these cultural differences mean is that studies of religious belief in the U.S. aren’t going to translate very well to this part of the world. Of course we have plenty of stupid people here, but our munters are just munters. They don’t generally wrap themselves in religion to be accepted by the herd – probably quite the reverse if anything.
Personally I don’t think there’s anything particularly smart about ignoring the spiritual side of life either. In fact I think only a fool would, atheist and all.
I think there’s a 3rd group: those who are simply so out of touch with society and how other people live that they don’t realise they’re being selfish. They simply have no conception of what it is like to be disadvantaged and therefore instead of having compassion for someone on a benefit, they see them as a bludger with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Not quite. Old fashioned wet conservatives are very community (and often conservation) minded. They look after friends, family and local communities very well. But they have no time for bludgers, slackers and lay abouts. These old fashioned Tories are quite different from neolib NATs.
In other news, studies show that people who run around in the rain get wet
It’s so self-evident it’s hilarious to think that it needs to be studied. I mean that’s essentially the definition of conservatism – reluctance to change, dislike of the other, antipathy to progression, fear of the unknown.
It seems to me that many who self-identify as “conservative” – especially at an early age, the sort of panty-sniffers and thumb-suckers you find in the young nats for example – seem to have never examined exactly what it is they’re identifying as. It’s more like a club they join that offers the security of never having to examine themselves (or anything else) too closely for comfort.
And understandable if so. Imagine the cognitive dissonance that would arise from actually admitting to yourself that you think things are as good as they’ll ever be and we’d best just stop now, um actually let’s go back a bit just to be sure.
In fact it’s to their advantage to be a bit thick if they want to hold fast to their thick beliefs, because a smarter person simply couldn’t do it. The best a smart conservative can hope for is a double life where inwardly s/he understands the absurdity of it all but publicly puts on a thick face to avoid confrontation, both internal and within the peer group.
Awful really. Some of your Nat friends really are this twisted, grinning smugly to the world while cowering behind the eyes.
Ever wondered why Putin is so popular? It turns out he pays big time for the support, channelling thousands to pet bloggers and trained trolls who churn out pro-Putin comments by the Lada load. Of course, that could never happen in NZ.
That’s like saying people liked Kermit the Frog because they were suspicious of Jim Henson. A surprising majority of ordinary Russians actually do like his dark majesty Putin for all his faults because they crave security and stability – something they haven’t really known since the Tsars. It might look dodgy from the outside, but it’s a very Russian worldview.
Perhaps, but the misery, starvation and neglect of serfdom was at least something predictable they understood. I don’t think they had much choice in the matter of the revolutions – most of them didn’t understand the difference between Menshiviks, Bolsheviks and what have you – all they knew is that you agreed with whatever whoever was pointing the guns at you was telling you. The Russian people have always been stuck between someone’s rock and someone else’s hard place.
Interesting but I am in Berlin at a conference which includes about 10 Russian engineers and Russian politics is always a good topic.
Turns out Putin is liked because he stands up to the Mafia which otherwise would run the country. Already, it is cheaper to borrow money rom the mafia than the banks.
Putin is actually the hero of the workers and he plays to that…..
She’s trying to suck up to authors/audience at TheStandard to drag some more hits her way, is all.
She basically just agrees with Eddie’s theory that National is deliberately getting the MP angry over S9 and the SOE assets as a ploy for the 2014 election.
I mentioned this theory to my bf, he thought it sounded reasonable on the face of it, but pointed out that National most likely already has all of the redneck votes anyway. Getting maori offside is more likely to erode their soft center-left vote and send them back leftwards.
That other United Future troll Pete George does the same thing with his link, but at least he gives a headline summary. Could it be an official UF policy to post in this way?
Also your boyfriend may well be right about Nat having most of the redneck votes now, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need shoring up. It might just indicate that the Nats anticipate pissing large amounts of them off over other issues this term.
In a rush this morning – I was referring back to Eddies post on John Key and either stirring up or having foreknowledge of the s9 treaty clause issue.I’m interested in the truth. I tend to post on anything where I can smell bullshit as an independent blogger.
We encourage robust debate and we’re tolerant of dissenting views. But this site run for reasonably rational debate between dissenting viewpoints and we intend to keep it operating that way.
That is followed by a whole pile of do nots. But “robust debate” means that participants can expect others to attack ideas, sources of information, attitudes, and philosophies without the moderators considering that is worth their effort to intervene. We assume most commentators can defend themselves otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
Moderators will tend to intervene if it descends into pointless abuse, flame wars, or just looks too much like a deliberate bully session. It does get pretty tough getting agreement. The standing joke is that most of the time you only get to a agree to disagree basis – but at least others will know of the other viewpoints. Sometimes you will observe attitude changes in other later…
You can usually raise a moderator by framing something that looks like a request of clarification or an interpretation of the bounds (like you just did) or doing a don’t. Of course moderators only run roughly the same policies, so it pays not to stray too close to the edges (not that you have so far) in case you get IrishBill with a hangover. ]
Similarly we will tell you what we think of what you’re doing. In this case, we don’t think much of it at all. That’s never stopped Pete George though.
Big smile on my face! Where is PG? tell me he has been struck off the list, or is he scrubbing the hair’s curling tongs?
[lprent: He caught a 4 week vacation for attacking a author rather the contents of their post. Philu has been speaking up in his defense and against the evil moderation system.
I have been trying to figure out how he triggers the spam trap sometimes and not on others. It is pretty weird. ]
Last time I looked he was over on Red Alert instead driving them up the wall with his infantile thought processes. CV followed him over for a while and did him over. My advice is stay away from RA for another couple of weeks at least.
Monique, there are reply buttons below each comment, not just in the box at the bottom of the page. Can you please use them rather than comment anew each time? It helps to keep alive that vital free flow of communication! Thanks.
And once more Family First (aka Bob McCroskrie’s Boner) has vomited forth a study, with an author known for cherry picking and “traditional” values: http://www.badscience.net/category/aric-sigman/
Yay.
Bonus points for patriarchal bullshit too with the “full-time mother” claim, because males so can’t be a full-time parent/bring home teh bacon…
To the best of my knowledge, it’s about allegiance to and a desire to be associated with Britain, as against those who wanted nothing to do with Britain. I may well have got that wrong, I am going by what my son who studied all this at school (he’s an atheist BTW) told me he learned. We’re Scots, and I don’t care about Ireland.
A timely quote from Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol (today was his 200th birthday):
‘Are there no prisons?’
‘Plenty of prisons,’ said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.’And the Union workhouses,’ demanded Scrooge. ‘Are they still in operation?’
‘Both very busy, sir.’
‘Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,’ said Scrooge. ‘I’m very glad to hear it.”
… “I help to support the establishments I have mentioned — they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.’
‘Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.’
‘If they would rather die,’ said Scrooge, ‘they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”
Are polling companies allowed to use the electoral roll for recruiting subjects?
The reason I ask is that I was called by ‘Curia’ for one of their political polls and after I put the phone down I realised the poller had asked for me by Christian and Surname, and I’m only listed in the phone book by initials.
It seems an awful lot of trouble to got to – electoral roll and then the phone book. And it seemed to violate the anonymity, knowing exactly who you are and where you live. In previous non-curia polls the caller asked for a demographic, not a particular person.
interesting – if curia was using the electronic electoral roll for commercial purposes, that would be illegal.
i’m sure farrar would have an electronic roll for his national party work, but commercial use of the roll must be confined to the publicly available hardcopies.
Yeah, I thought there were restrictions on using the electoral roll. And I can’t imagine how else they could know my christian name. Where would I get more info on the correct use of the electoral roll?
much harder to use the hardcopy for mass spamming and other commercial enterprises
yes same info (almost, the e ver is richer) and same concerns, but when limited to hardcopy it’s much much harder to exploit those millions of records. there are bound to be lots of sound reasons why the roll needs to be made public, but limiting access to the e version helps to slow down its misuse.
not easy to prove, that’s why the electoral commission are very picky about who they allow access to the electronic version. if they were to discover provable commercial use of the e version, they’d prosecute with considerable prejudice. if they had sufficient reason they might be able to get a search warrant executed.
Complaint emailed to the electoral commission.
Btw it was obviously the National Party that commissioned the poll.
It may be hard to prove, but can you think of another way that pollsters based in Auckland or Wellington would know the christian name of a random participant in the provinces?
edit just checked caller display – Wgton number.
I’m in the mainland.
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On a very wet Friday, we hope you have somewhere nice and warm and dry to sit and catch up on our roundup of some of this week’s top stories in transport and urbanism. The header image shows Northcote Intermediate Students strolling across the Te Ara Awataha Greenway Bridge in ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: and Elaine Monaghan on the week in geopolitics and climate, including Donald Trump’s tariff shock yesterday; and,Labour’s Disarmament and Associate ...
I'm gonna try real goodSwear that I'm gonna try from now on and for the rest of my lifeI'm gonna power on, I'm gonna enjoy the highsAnd the lows will come and goAnd may your dreamsAnd may your dreamsAnd may your dreams never dieSongwriters: Ben Reed.These are Stranger Days than ...
With the execution of global reciprocal tariffs, US President Donald Trump has issued his ‘declaration of economic independence for America’. The immediate direct effect on the Australian economy will likely be small, with more risk ...
The StrategistBy Jacqueline Gibson, Nerida King and Ned Talbot
AUKUS governments began 25 years ago trying to draw in a greater range of possible defence suppliers beyond the traditional big contractors. It is an important objective, and some progress has been made, but governments ...
I approach fresh Trump news reluctantly. It never holds the remotest promise of pleasure. I had the very, very least of expectations for his Rumble in the Jungle, his Thriller in Manila, his Liberation Day.God May 1945 is becoming the bitterest of jokes isn’t it?Whatever. Liberation Day he declared it ...
Beyond trade and tariff turmoil, Donald Trump pushes at the three core elements of Australia’s international policy: the US alliance, the region and multilateralism. What Kevin Rudd called the ‘three fundamental pillars’ are the heart ...
So, having broken its promise to the nation, and dumped 85% of submissions on the Treaty Principles Bill in the trash, National's stooges on the Justice Committee have decided to end their "consideration" of the bill, and report back a full month early: Labour says the Justice Select Committee ...
The 2024 Independent Intelligence Review offers a mature and sophisticated understanding of workforce challenges facing Australia’s National Intelligence Community (NIC). It provides a thoughtful roadmap for modernising that workforce and enhancing cross-agency and cross-sector collaboration. ...
OPINION AND ANALYSIS:Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier’s comments singling out Health NZ for “acting contrary to the law” couldn’t be clearer. If you find my work of value, do consider subscribing and/or supporting me. Thank you.Health NZ has been acting a law unto itself. That includes putting its management under extraordinary ...
Southeast Asia’s three most populous countries are tightening their security relationships, evidently in response to China’s aggression in the South China Sea. This is most obvious in increased cooperation between the coast guards of the ...
In the late 1970s Australian sport underwent institutional innovation propelling it to new heights. Today, Australia must urgently adapt to a contested and confronting strategic environment. Contributing to this, a new ASPI research project will ...
In short this morning in our political economy:The Nelson Hospital waiting list crisis just gets worse, including compelling interviews with an over-worked surgeon who is leaving, and a patient who discovered after 19 months of waiting for a referral that her bowel and ovaries were fused together with scar tissue ...
Plainly, the claims being tossed around in the media last year that the new terminal envisaged by Auckland International Airport was a gold-plated “Taj Mahal” extravagance were false. With one notable exception, the Commerce Commission’s comprehensive investigation has ended up endorsing every other aspect of the airport’s building programme (and ...
Movements clustered around the Right, and Far Right as well, are rising globally. Despite the recent defeats we’ve seen in the last day or so with the win of a Democrat-backed challenger, Dane County Judge Susan Crawford, over her Republican counterpart, Waukesha County Judge Brad Schimel, in the battle for ...
In February 2025, John Cook gave two webinars for republicEN explaining the scientific consensus on human-caused climate change. 20 February 2025: republicEN webinar part 1 - BUST or TRUST? The scientific consensus on climate change In the first webinar, Cook explained the history of the 20-year scientific consensus on climate change. How do ...
After three decades of record-breaking growth, at about the same time as Xi Jinping rose to power in 2012, China’s economy started the long decline to its current state of stagnation. The Chinese Communist Party ...
The Pike River Coal mine was a ticking time bomb.Ventilation systems designed to prevent methane buildup were incomplete or neglected.Gas detectors that might warn of danger were absent or broken.Rock bolting was skipped, old tunnels left unsealed, communication systems failed during emergencies.Employees and engineers kept warning management about the … ...
Regional hegemons come in different shapes and sizes. Australia needs to think about what kind of hegemon China would be, and become, should it succeed in displacing the United States in Asia. It’s time to ...
RNZ has a story this morning about the expansion of solar farms in Aotearoa, driven by today's ground-breaking ceremony at the Tauhei solar farm in Te Aroha: From starting out as a tiny player in the electricity system, solar power generated more electricity than coal and gas combined for ...
After the Berlin Wall came down in 1989, and almost a year before the Soviet Union collapsed in late 1991, US President George H W Bush proclaimed a ‘new world order’. Now, just two months ...
Warning: Some images may be distressing. Thank you for those who support my work. It means a lot.A shopfront in Australia shows Liberal leader Peter Dutton and mining magnate Gina Rinehart depicted with Nazi imageryUS Government Seeks Death Penalty for Luigi MangioneMangione was publicly walked in front of media in ...
Aged care workers rallying against potential roster changes say Bupa, which runs retirement homes across the country, needs to focus on care instead of money. More than half of New Zealand workers wish they had chosen a different career according to a new survey. Consumers are likely to see a ...
The scurrilous attacks on Benjamin Doyle, a list Green MP, over his supposed inappropriate behaviour towards children has dominated headlines and social media this past week, led by frothing Rightwing agitators clutching their pearls and fanning the flames of moral panic over pedophiles and and perverts. Winston Peter decided that ...
Twilight Time Lighthouse Cuba, Wigan Street, Wellington, Sunday 6 April, 5:30pm for 6pm start. Twilight Time looks at the life and work of Desmond Ball, (1947-2016), a barefooted academic from ‘down under’ who was hailed by Jimmy Carter as “the man who saved the world”, as he proved the fallacy ...
The landedAnd the wealthyAnd the piousAnd the healthyAnd the straight onesAnd the pale onesAnd we only mean the male ones!If you're all of the above, then you're ok!As we build a new tomorrow here today!Lyrics Glenn Slater and Allan Menken.Ah, Democracy - can you smell it?It's presently a sulphurous odour, ...
US President Donald Trump’s unconventional methods of conducting international relations will compel the next federal government to reassess whether the United States’ presence in the region and its security assurances provide a reliable basis for ...
Things seem to be at a pretty low ebb in and around the Reserve Bank. There was, in particular, the mysterious, sudden, and as-yet unexplained resignation of the Governor (we’ve had four Governors since the Bank was given its operational autonomy 35 years ago, and only two have completed their ...
Long story short:PMChristopher Luxon said in January his Government was ‘going for growth’ and he wanted New Zealanders to develop a ‘culture of yes.’ Yet his own Government is constantly saying no, or not yet, to anchor investments that would unleash real private business investment and GDP growth. ...
Long story short:PMChristopher Luxon said in January his Government was ‘going for growth’ and he wanted New Zealanders to develop a ‘culture of yes.’ Yet his own Government is constantly saying no, or not yet, to anchor investments that would unleash real private business investment and GDP growth. ...
For decades, Britain and Australia had much the same process for regulating media handling of defence secrets. It was the D-notice system, under which media would be asked not to publish. The two countries diverged ...
For decades, Britain and Australia had much the same process for regulating media handling of defence secrets. It was the D-notice system, under which media would be asked not to publish. The two countries diverged ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission.In this article, I make a not-entirely-serious case for ripping out Spaghetti Junction in Auckland, replacing it with a motorway tunnel, and redeveloping new city streets and neighbourhoods above it instead. What’s ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission.In this article, I make a not-entirely-serious case for ripping out Spaghetti Junction in Auckland, replacing it with a motorway tunnel, and redeveloping new city streets and neighbourhoods above it instead. What’s ...
In short this morning in our political economy:The Nelson Hospital crisis revealed by 1News’Jessica Roden dominates the political agenda today. Yet again, population growth wasn’t planned for, or funded.Kāinga Ora is planning up to 900 house sales, including new ones, Jonathan Milne reports for Newsroom.One of New Zealand’s biggest ...
In short this morning in our political economy:The Nelson Hospital crisis revealed by 1News’Jessica Roden dominates the political agenda today. Yet again, population growth wasn’t planned for, or funded.Kāinga Ora is planning up to 900 house sales, including new ones, Jonathan Milne reports for Newsroom.One of New Zealand’s biggest ...
The war between Russia and Ukraine continues unabated. Neither side is in a position to achieve its stated objectives through military force. But now there is significant diplomatic activity as well. Ukraine has agreed to ...
Today, the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill has passed its third and final reading, but there is one more stage before it becomes law. The Governor-General must give their ‘Royal assent’ for any bill to become legally enforceable. This means that, even if a bill gets voted ...
Abortion care at Whakatāne Hospital has been quietly shelved, with patients told they will likely have to travel more than an hour to Tauranga to get the treatment they need. ...
Thousands of New Zealanders’ submissions are missing from the official parliamentary record because the National-dominated Justice Select Committee has rushed work on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...
Today’s announcement of 10 percent tariffs for New Zealand goods entering the United States is disappointing for exporters and consumers alike, with the long-lasting impact on prices and inflation still unknown. ...
The National Government’s choices have contributed to a slow-down in the building sector, as thousands of people have lost their jobs in construction. ...
Willie Apiata’s decision to hand over his Victoria Cross to the Minister for Veterans is a powerful and selfless act, made on behalf of all those who have served our country. ...
The Privileges Committee has denied fundamental rights to Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, Rawiri Waititi and Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, breaching their own standing orders, breaching principles of natural justice, and highlighting systemic prejudice and discrimination within our parliamentary processes. The three MPs were summoned to the privileges committee following their performance of a haka ...
April 1 used to be a day when workers could count on a pay rise with stronger support for those doing it tough, but that’s not the case under this Government. ...
Winston Peters is shopping for smaller ferries after Nicola Willis torpedoed the original deal, which would have delivered new rail enabled ferries next year. ...
The Government should work with other countries to press the Myanmar military regime to stop its bombing campaign especially while the country recovers from the devastating earthquake. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Government to scrap proposed changes to Early Childhood Care, after attending a petition calling for the Government to ‘Put tamariki at the heart of decisions about ECE’. ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill today that will remove the power of MPs conscience votes and ensure mandatory national referendums are held before any conscience issues are passed into law. “We are giving democracy and power back to the people”, says New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters. ...
Welcome to members of the diplomatic corp, fellow members of parliament, the fourth estate, foreign affairs experts, trade tragics, ladies and gentlemen. ...
In recent weeks, disturbing instances of state-sanctioned violence against Māori have shed light on the systemic racism permeating our institutions. An 11-year-old autistic Māori child was forcibly medicated at the Henry Bennett Centre, a 15-year-old had his jaw broken by police in Napier, kaumātua Dean Wickliffe went on a hunger ...
Confidence in the job market has continued to drop to its lowest level in five years as more New Zealanders feel uncertain about finding work, keeping their jobs, and getting decent pay, according to the latest Westpac-McDermott Miller Employment Confidence Index. ...
The Greens are calling on the Government to follow through on their vague promises of environmental protection in their Resource Management Act (RMA) reform. ...
“Make New Zealand First Again” Ladies and gentlemen, First of all, thank you for being here today. We know your lives are busy and you are working harder and longer than you ever have, and there are many calls on your time, so thank you for the chance to speak ...
Hundreds more Palestinians have died in recent days as Israel’s assault on Gaza continues and humanitarian aid, including food and medicine, is blocked. ...
National is looking to cut hundreds of jobs at New Zealand’s Defence Force, while at the same time it talks up plans to increase focus and spending in Defence. ...
It’s been revealed that the Government is secretly trying to bring back a ‘one-size fits all’ standardised test – a decision that has shocked school principals. ...
The Green Party is calling for the compassionate release of Dean Wickliffe, a 77-year-old kaumātua on hunger strike at the Spring Hill Corrections Facility, after visiting him at the prison. ...
The Green Party is calling on Government MPs to support Chlöe Swarbrick’s Member’s Bill to sanction Israel for its unlawful presence and illegal actions in Palestine, following another day of appalling violence against civilians in Gaza. ...
The Government’s new planning legislation to replace the Resource Management Act will make it easier to get things done while protecting the environment, say Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop and Under-Secretary Simon Court. “The RMA is broken and everyone knows it. It makes it too hard to build ...
Trade and Investment Minister Todd McClay has today launched a public consultation on New Zealand and India’s negotiations of a formal comprehensive Free Trade Agreement. “Negotiations are getting underway, and the Public’s views will better inform us in the early parts of this important negotiation,” Mr McClay says. We are ...
More than 900 thousand superannuitants and almost five thousand veterans are among the New Zealanders set to receive a significant financial boost from next week, an uplift Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says will help support them through cost-of-living challenges. “I am pleased to confirm that from 1 ...
Progressing a holistic strategy to unlock the potential of New Zealand’s geothermal resources, possibly in applications beyond energy generation, is at the centre of discussions with mana whenua at a hui in Rotorua today, Resources and Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is in the early stages ...
New annual data has exposed the staggering cost of delays previously hidden in the building consent system, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “I directed Building Consent Authorities to begin providing quarterly data last year to improve transparency, following repeated complaints from tradespeople waiting far longer than the statutory ...
Increases in water charges for Auckland consumers this year will be halved under the Watercare Charter which has now been passed into law, Local Government Minister Simon Watts and Auckland Minister Simeon Brown say. The charter is part of the financial arrangement for Watercare developed last year by Auckland Council ...
There is wide public support for the Government’s work to strengthen New Zealand’s biosecurity protections, says Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard. “The Ministry for Primary Industries recently completed public consultation on proposed amendments to the Biosecurity Act and the submissions show that people understand the importance of having a strong biosecurity ...
A new independent review function will enable individuals and organisations to seek an expert independent review of specified civil aviation regulatory decisions made by, or on behalf of, the Director of Civil Aviation, Acting Transport Minister James Meager has announced today. “Today we are making it easier and more affordable ...
The Government will invest in an enhanced overnight urgent care service for the Napier community as part of our focus on ensuring access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown has today confirmed. “I am delighted that a solution has been found to ensure Napier residents will continue to ...
Health Minister Simeon Brown and Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey attended a sod turning today to officially mark the start of construction on a new mental health facility at Hillmorton Campus. “This represents a significant step in modernising mental health services in Canterbury,” Mr Brown says. “Improving health infrastructure is ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has welcomed confirmation the economy has turned the corner. Stats NZ reported today that gross domestic product grew 0.7 per cent in the three months to December following falls in the June and September quarters. “We know many families and businesses are still suffering the after-effects ...
The sealing of a 12-kilometre stretch of State Highway 43 (SH43) through the Tangarakau Gorge – one of the last remaining sections of unsealed state highway in the country – has been completed this week as part of a wider programme of work aimed at improving the safety and resilience ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters says relations between New Zealand and the United States are on a strong footing, as he concludes a week-long visit to New York and Washington DC today. “We came to the United States to ask the new Administration what it wants from ...
Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee has welcomed changes to international anti-money laundering standards which closely align with the Government’s reforms. “The Financial Action Taskforce (FATF) last month adopted revised standards for tackling money laundering and the financing of terrorism to allow for simplified regulatory measures for businesses, organisations and sectors ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour says he welcomes Medsafe’s decision to approve an electronic controlled drug register for use in New Zealand pharmacies, allowing pharmacies to replace their physical paper-based register. “The register, developed by Kiwi brand Toniq Limited, is the first of its kind to be approved in New ...
The Coalition Government’s drive for regional economic growth through the $1.2 billion Regional Infrastructure Fund is on track with more than $550 million in funding so far committed to key infrastructure projects, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. “To date, the Regional Infrastructure Fund (RIF) has received more than 250 ...
[Comments following the bilateral meeting with United States Secretary of State, Marco Rubio; United States State Department, Washington D.C.] * We’re very pleased with our meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio this afternoon. * We came here to listen to the new Administration and to be clear about what ...
The intersection of State Highway 2 (SH2) and Wainui Road in the Eastern Bay of Plenty will be made safer and more efficient for vehicles and freight with the construction of a new and long-awaited roundabout, says Transport Minister Chris Bishop. “The current intersection of SH2 and Wainui Road is ...
The Ocean Race will return to the City of Sails in 2027 following the Government’s decision to invest up to $4 million from the Major Events Fund into the international event, Auckland Minister Simeon Brown says. “New Zealand is a proud sailing nation, and Auckland is well-known internationally as the ...
Three billion dollars has been wiped off the value of New Zealand's share market as the rout of global financial markets finally caught up with the local market. ...
Report by Dr David Robie – Café Pacific. – COMMENTARY: By Caitlin Johnstone One thing October 7 did accomplish was getting Israel and its allies to show the world their true face. Getting them to stand before all of humanity to say, “If you resist us, we’ll kill your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Hartigan, Lecturer in Economics, University of Sydney Financial markets around the world have been slammed by the Trump adminstration’s sweeping tariffs on its trading partners, and China’s swift retaliation. Share markets have posted their biggest declines since the COVID pandemic ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Percy, Professor of International Relations, The University of Queensland Australia faces crisis-level workforce shortfalls in security and defence. Recruiting more people to the defence force is now an urgent matter of national security. So, comments – such as those recently made ...
RNZ Pacific Autonomous Bougainville Government President Ishmael Toroama has condemned the circulation of an artificial intelligence (AI)-generated video depicting a physical confrontation between him and Papua New Guinea Prime Minister James Marape. The clip, first shared on Facebook last week, is generated from the above picture of Toroama and Marape ...
"We need to continue speaking out against the government about this. Ka whawhai tonu tātou. We all benefit as New Zealanders when our indigenous people do well – nobody loses, because we all win,” Dr Will Flavell says. ...
This Defence Capability Plan will ensure that desperately needed public services here in Aotearoa are starved of resources and primed for privatisation, while US weapons companies drain our treasury and the US military sets us up to service them ...
Three billion dollars has been wiped off the value of New Zealand's share market as the rout of global financial markets finally caught up with the local market. ...
Spokesperson for The Sensible Sentencing Trust Louise Parsons says: “We were happy to make the image changes, but find it telling that they are trying to have our billboards taken down when they simply state what their MPs advocate for - the ‘radical abolition ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rohan Best, Senior Lecturer, Department of Economics, Macquarie University NOWRA photography/Shutterstock Over the weekend, Labor promised to subsidise home batteries by 30%. This would save about A$4,000 per household up front for an average battery. The scheme has a goal of ...
The Government today announced a $12 billion dollar investment in defence capability over the next four years. But at the same time NZDF is planning to slash 374 roles from the civilian workforce, coming on top of cuts late last year which saw 144 civilian ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra James, Research Fellow, Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University News feeds have been flooded with reactions to Adolescence, Netflix’s newest viral hit. Released in March, the limited series racked up over 66 million views in just ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sofia Ammassari, Research Fellow, Griffith University Young Australians will shape the upcoming federal election. For the first time, Gen Z and Millennials are the dominant voter bloc, outnumbering Baby Boomers. But over the past couple of years, we’ve heard stories from around ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milad Haghani, Associate Professor & Principal Fellow in Urban Risk & Resilience, The University of Melbourne Two men were arrested for allegedly bringing loaded firearms into the Melbourne Cricket Ground (MCG) during Thursday’s AFL match between Collingwood and Carlton. The incident didn’t ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitie Kuempel, Lecturer, School of Environment and Science, Griffith University As climate change wreaks havoc with the world’s oceans, future production of fish, crustaceans and other aquatic organisms is under threat. Our new research shows how this disturbance will play out for ...
Pouārahi, Ivy Harper, said the Government and Te Puni Kōkiri had consistently overlooked clear research and data. The latest evaluation, completed by Ihi Research, was particularly compelling, she said. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lauren Ball, Professor of Community Health and Wellbeing, The University of Queensland @logansfewd via Instagram “Sometimes you need to eat an entire cucumber.” So begins a series of viral videos by TikTok “cucumber guy” Logan Moffitt, who has raked in ...
The event will also feature speeches from workers and a panel of experts including Saunoamaali’i Dr Karanina Sumeo, Shamubeel Eaqub, Lyndy McIntyre and Ed Miller. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rod McNaughton, Professor of Entrepreneurship, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images When retail executives start swearing during earnings calls, something is clearly amiss. That’s what happened recently when the CEO of United States-based luxury furniture retailer Restoration Hardware ...
The Spinoff’s resident White Lotus geeks guess who’ll cark it in season three’s finale. (Legal disclaimer: Contains spoilers for the first seven episodes.)After eight weeks of analysing the theme song, drooling over the scenery and wondering how twisted the storylines can get, season three of The White Lotus concludes ...
The cost of unchecked influence The New Zealand public will gain many benefits from a fairer, transparent public policy making process - like a greater recognition of what the public values and more trust in government decision makers. ...
The most reliably brutal burn is to call someone average. Why? This article was first published on Madeleine Holden’s self-titled Substack. I have a painful confession: I’m responsible for not just one but two of the most viral anti-male slogans of the 2010s. I coined “dick is abundant and low value” ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brian D Earp, Associate Director, Yale-Hastings Program in Ethics and Health Policy, University of Oxford Cybermagician / Shutterstock “I’m really not sure what to do anymore. I don’t have anyone I can talk to,” types a lonely user to an AI ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Aruna Sathanapally, Grattan Institute The 2025 federal election coincides with a period of profound global uncertainty, as the Trump administration wreaks havoc on the free trade system and longstanding alliances. The events of recent months have underscored how, at each election, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jialing Lin, Research fellow, International Centre for Future Health Systems, UNSW Sydney Rose Marinelli/Shutterstock MyMedicare is a scheme that encourages patients to register with a regular GP practice to improve their health. But few patients have enrolled. Since its ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Leihy, Ecologist, Arthur Rylah Institute for Environmental Research Visitors to Australia are often shocked at having to declare an apple or wooden item under our biosecurity policies. Biosecurity policies are used to keep out pest species and diseases. But they’re expensive ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jamilla Rosdahl, Senior Lecturer, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock Being labelled a “nice guy” was once considered a form of flattery. Today, however, anyone privy to the world of dating and romance will know this isn’t necessarily a compliment. The term ...
Shanti Mathias scrolls through council archives and Papers Past to discover where street names come from. In Sydenham, a suburb south of Christchurch’s CBD, there are some familiar names on the road signs. Milton Street. Coleridge Street. Wordsworth Street, which, naturally branches into Shakespeare Road. There’s Tennyson Street, of course, ...
Anyone told Steven Joyce can’t is an anagram of NACT?
+1
I think everyone needs to stop using NAct to be honest. It just perpetuates the myth that Act is still a real party.
I think it emphasizes that National is just the pretty store front to Act.
You’re using the word “pretty” fairly creatively there Lanth

Be more appropriate if they were the “union of consumers & taxpayers”. Just saying.
That’s what United Future is for.
This is bound to cause comment. The Daily Mail recently ran an article confirming what many already know, that right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers. After the article there is 1,001 comments offering further evidence that this proposition is, without doubt, correct.
The original report states:
“In psychological terms, the relation between intelligence and prejudice may stem from the propensity of individuals with lower cognitive ability to endorse more right wing conservative ideologies because such ideologies offer a psychological sense of stability and order.”
In simple terms a right winger responds to a new situation with fear while a lefty responds with curiosity.
The Daily Mail dissing its own audience by running that report almost proves the point.
+1
This is a bit of an oversimplification. There are two basic types of right winger, and this article only deals with one of them.
I’ve always thought that the problem with righties isn’t that they are dumb, it’s that they are selfish. The right wing philosophy is built on the idea of taking care of yourself and your own, and refusing to accept any responsibility for anyone else. A whole bunch of people all trying to make themselves into islands, in other words.
There’s the (usually) rich intelligent right wingers, who know exactly what they are doing – i.e. trying to set everything up in their favour so they get all the rewards, and then making sure they don’t have to share them with anyone else. They are not dumb, they’re just selfish and proud of it.
Then there’s the (usually) poor and dumb righties who can’t ever aspire to have the wealth of their counterparts, but like the disregard for others that characterises the right wing when this is directed at groups of people they dislike (anyone who’s not like them).
Lefties are the types who recognise that we are all interconnected, and what affects your neighbours affects you. It’s a complex system of feedback and you can’t cut yourself off from everyone else no matter how hard you try.
The dumb righties are too stupid to recognise that, and the smart ones are in denial about anything could ruin their pure vision of themselves as the centre of their own universe.
Thanks Blue.
George Monbiot says something similar. To quote:
So there are various sectors amongst right supporters but the message is being dumbed down to appeal to one sector only. The rest just nod and wink and enjoy the benefits.
Just to show I am an equal opportunity stirrer Monbiot also questions why in the face of such stupidity the left do not do better. In particular:
Thought provoking. And to a larger extent, accurate I’d say.
Cheap oil Easy credit selects for selfish intelligent rightwing.
Expensive energy hard credit selects for selfish intelligent rightwing.
Changing times selects for selfish intelligent left wings.
???
the left creating order and certainty means they lay foundations for convervatists.
My observation is that it isnt so much a left / right wing split in intelligence but relates to your view on religion
Those that are heavily religious are generally (but not always) of low intelligence…
Conservatives – particularly in the USA are generally religious and are classified in the ‘right’ bucket in the study hence causing the relationship
Also the following quotes in another article on the same study (link below) are interesting:
“So a smart person (all else being equal) will probably be in favour of capitalism generally, and free-trade in particular. He or she will distrust state intervention in the markets, probably be suspicious of welfarism and deeply dislike protectionism, union closed-shops and tariffs. The smart person will believe that the have-nots should be encouraged to become haves by dint of their own labours and by the levelling of economic playing fields, NOT by taking money off the haves and giving it to them.” – In simple terms – for capitalism = smart, against it = dumb(er)
“This matches other findings that show that IQ correlates not with left-wing thinking as such, but with classic Enlightenment liberalism.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2097652/Does-low-IQ-make-right-wing-That-depends-define-left-right.html#ixzz1lkaFTuRZ
[lprent: Why change emails and handles (including capitalization) all of the time? This is the 4th or 5th change since November. It just means that a moderator has to go to the effort of releasing you from first time moderation each time it happens. It is a lot of effort for us to go to checking that you aren’t banned and aren’t someone trying to hijack your identity because you can’t remember a e-mail and how to spell a name. Please settle on one and stick to it before we stop releasing them. ]
Understood – my details dont seem to save therefore have to re-enter them hence change handle as the mood dictates….didnt appreciate it caused a hassle on yourside – apologies
The details are stored in cookies on your systems. They get sent to the server when you pick up a page so the details can be auto filled in. If you have set it to not take cookies at your browser then that would be the cause. It could also be oneof the more irritating Internet security systems.
If that isn’t intentional, then my usual advise is to simply use a different browser. Some of them (Internet explorer) are just a pain in the arse. Currently google chrome or Firefox are pretty good and available on most platforms.
I’m running an IQ of around 140. I used to be right-wing but then I looked at the facts, considered the theory and it’s assumptions, realised that the free-market was complete BS and became a radical lefty.
What makes someone right-wing is a complete denial of reality either because it doesn’t suit their selfishness or because they’re stupid.
Probably being a bit harsh there DTB. Many people are simply ill informed.
The deliberate propaganda program by the right and there wholly owned media means that people have to dig deep to get unbiased information.
That’s complete and utter nonsense. It may make you feel superior, but any proof you provide (and I see that you don’t actually provide any) will probably amount to a link to Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins and his ‘Brights”. Meaningless.
As is that. There’s no proof that conservatives are generally religious – even in the USA, although many of them certainly claim that they are..
Please note that educated people don’t use smart and dumb as synonyms for clever and stupid. Using dumb = stupid, is a juvenile insult against those with communication disabilities.
Proof for my statement re a link between IQ and religion (or at least supporting evidence) was in my link. I have re pasted below. I should have included in my post…apologies
“Other studies have found correlations between strong religiosity (a traditional marker of conservatism) and low intelligence”
And my statement that a large component of the right wing conservative / tea party / republican movement in the US is highly religious isn’t one I thought would need me to provide supporting evidence for.
Given the aggressive nature of your response I take you believe in a higher power!
Cheers
PP
That doesn’t compute… I would love to know why you associate aggression with religion! Have you had bad experiences with religious people, maybe?
Right… having sorted out your grammar, no, I still don’t agree – because you seem to have ignored the bit where I said that they claim to be highly religious. Someone will leap in and scream “No true Scotsman fallacy’ at me, but whether you/they like it or not, true Christians/Muslims would never have a bar of tea party prejudice and war-mongering.
Oh, and where’s your link? I can’t see it…
Bwahahahahahahaha snort hahahahahahahaha guffaw snort hahahahahahahahahaha snort snort hahaha… Troubles in Northern Ireland hahahahahahah The Crusades hahahahaha The Inquisition hahahahahaha snort the Moorish and Ottoman invasions hahahahahahahahahaha the Albigensian Crusade hahaha…. The Massacre of the Huguenots hahahaha… Shall I go on? What are your meds? I want some….
Clopidogrel and Lipitor (Atorvastatin)… sure you want some?
Yours is a pretty silly answer really. For every (allegedly) religious war you can name, I can name 3 that have no (allegedly) religious motivation. It seems to me that many atheists are black and white thinkers, subtleties escape them – but even Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins and his fanbois have been known to admit that they know perfectly well that The Troubles (for instance) are political, with a gloss of religion to provide ‘respectability’…
And that political division is based on…… What?
Wtf exactly do failures in drug testing do to drug companies being myopically focused on profit have to do with braindead ideological excuses for conflict?
And every time this subject (and reproductive rights) comes up your brain goes to custard and you make downright stupid arguments in amongst the occasionally smart ones.
As for the “black n white” quip, repeat after me, “the plural of anecdotes is not data”. Also, how the fuck is empiricism black and white thinking, when the supporting arguments involves multiple lines of philosophical inquiring, including teh always perturbing natures of inference?
@Populuxe1
/fractal-facepalm
Stat’s indicate that overall IQ scores show no statistically significant difference between atheists/religious, it’s only when looking at various sects that statistically significant differences appear. Predominantly with charismatic and/or conservative evangelical sects.
Which you’d already know if you read the fucking research.
Snap.. I get off the Clopidogrel in a few weeks. Also have heart shaped aspirins and Betaloc
Doesn’t sound mind bending to me.
@Vicky
Apologies for my first sentence, I’m still getting over some mild food poisoning and after work was rather brainless for a while on top of feeling crap-ish.
Better face palm again NickS – at no time did I make such an assertion. I was commenting on Vicky’s rather rose-tinted view of Christian history
Which you would know if you read the fucking post
I misread the above from you
Anyhow, I’m sick so
Hmm, don’t know about that. I’m pretty much a 6th level atheist but I’ve met some profoundly smart people who are profoundly religious.
Perhaps I hang out in the wrong circles, but I don’t think we in NZ have large numbers of the sort of fundies that the U.S. does – with a few notable exceptions obviously.
Listening to the U.S tea-party types it can be very hard to tell where nationalism ends and religion begins. I get the impression they’d consider it unpatriotic to not identify as religious. Religious kiwis by and large don’t fall for that sort of conflation of church and country.
Sure we have God’s name in the anthem and we throw around platitudes like “godzone” a lot more than I’d like, but religious kiwis don’t tend suffer from the delusion that god has somehow charged our nation with a special mission on earth.
Saying you’re religious in NZ may mean something quite different to saying it in parts of the U.S. where it often seems to be used as a sort of shorthand for being fond of democracy, freedom, and the American way of life.
I also have to agree with Vicky about people in power claiming to be religious for political reasons. This is another road we haven’t gone down in NZ where even our highest level politicians can say they’re religious or a bit religious or not religious at all (varying from day-to-day in John Key’s case) and no-one really cares too much one way or the other.
I think what these cultural differences mean is that studies of religious belief in the U.S. aren’t going to translate very well to this part of the world. Of course we have plenty of stupid people here, but our munters are just munters. They don’t generally wrap themselves in religion to be accepted by the herd – probably quite the reverse if anything.
Personally I don’t think there’s anything particularly smart about ignoring the spiritual side of life either. In fact I think only a fool would, atheist and all.
I think there’s a 3rd group: those who are simply so out of touch with society and how other people live that they don’t realise they’re being selfish. They simply have no conception of what it is like to be disadvantaged and therefore instead of having compassion for someone on a benefit, they see them as a bludger with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
That’s the goverment in a nutshell, well put.
Not quite. Old fashioned wet conservatives are very community (and often conservation) minded. They look after friends, family and local communities very well. But they have no time for bludgers, slackers and lay abouts. These old fashioned Tories are quite different from neolib NATs.
In other news, studies show that people who run around in the rain get wet
It’s so self-evident it’s hilarious to think that it needs to be studied. I mean that’s essentially the definition of conservatism – reluctance to change, dislike of the other, antipathy to progression, fear of the unknown.
It seems to me that many who self-identify as “conservative” – especially at an early age, the sort of panty-sniffers and thumb-suckers you find in the young nats for example – seem to have never examined exactly what it is they’re identifying as. It’s more like a club they join that offers the security of never having to examine themselves (or anything else) too closely for comfort.
And understandable if so. Imagine the cognitive dissonance that would arise from actually admitting to yourself that you think things are as good as they’ll ever be and we’d best just stop now, um actually let’s go back a bit just to be sure.
In fact it’s to their advantage to be a bit thick if they want to hold fast to their thick beliefs, because a smarter person simply couldn’t do it. The best a smart conservative can hope for is a double life where inwardly s/he understands the absurdity of it all but publicly puts on a thick face to avoid confrontation, both internal and within the peer group.
Awful really. Some of your Nat friends really are this twisted, grinning smugly to the world while cowering behind the eyes.
And some of them are just thick.
Morning everyone!
+1
In a nutshell, Felix.
Here’s the link to the journal and abstract of the article (for those interested).
Catch is, as Monbiot alludes, what does it say about the eft, in retreat around the globe?
Haven’t had a chance to read, but Monbiot claimed the comments that ensued further proved the point…
Ever wondered why Putin is so popular? It turns out he pays big time for the support, channelling thousands to pet bloggers and trained trolls who churn out pro-Putin comments by the Lada load. Of course, that could never happen in NZ.
I would have thought he was popular because Russians dont want to have Medvedev sell their country out to the Anglo Americans…..further!
Note the calls over the vote “irregularities” by Hillary and co, does nothing but indicate the effort to destabilize Russia.
Couldn’t imagine why!
So what does the cuddling up to Syria mean then?
So what does the cuddling up to Syria mean then?
UK news is saying it’s because Syria host Russia’s only all-weather, warm water, port.
Seems a bit simplistic, but there you go.
That’s like saying people liked Kermit the Frog because they were suspicious of Jim Henson. A surprising majority of ordinary Russians actually do like his dark majesty Putin for all his faults because they crave security and stability – something they haven’t really known since the Tsars. It might look dodgy from the outside, but it’s a very Russian worldview.
They didn’t have it then either hence the revolutions.
Perhaps, but the misery, starvation and neglect of serfdom was at least something predictable they understood. I don’t think they had much choice in the matter of the revolutions – most of them didn’t understand the difference between Menshiviks, Bolsheviks and what have you – all they knew is that you agreed with whatever whoever was pointing the guns at you was telling you. The Russian people have always been stuck between someone’s rock and someone else’s hard place.
Interesting but I am in Berlin at a conference which includes about 10 Russian engineers and Russian politics is always a good topic.
Turns out Putin is liked because he stands up to the Mafia which otherwise would run the country. Already, it is cheaper to borrow money rom the mafia than the banks.
Putin is actually the hero of the workers and he plays to that…..
Considering that most of the people pointing guns at them were the Tsars’ men your statement makes no sense.
Ah Draco, methinks you need a refresher course on the history of the Revolution.
So I’m concurring. I reckon he saw it coming at the very least:
http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/02/face-off.html
Concurring with what?
Don’t expect us to follow your spammy links.
+1. I don’t follow links unless I get an explanation of what it includes, and an explanation that shows why I should be interested.
She’s trying to suck up to authors/audience at TheStandard to drag some more hits her way, is all.
She basically just agrees with Eddie’s theory that National is deliberately getting the MP angry over S9 and the SOE assets as a ploy for the 2014 election.
I mentioned this theory to my bf, he thought it sounded reasonable on the face of it, but pointed out that National most likely already has all of the redneck votes anyway. Getting maori offside is more likely to erode their soft center-left vote and send them back leftwards.
That other United Future troll Pete George does the same thing with his link, but at least he gives a headline summary. Could it be an official UF policy to post in this way?
Also your boyfriend may well be right about Nat having most of the redneck votes now, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need shoring up. It might just indicate that the Nats anticipate pissing large amounts of them off over other issues this term.
There are that 2.5% that went to the conservatives, plus probably a few percent or so that went to NZF. Act is a sock puppet
In a rush this morning – I was referring back to Eddies post on John Key and either stirring up or having foreknowledge of the s9 treaty clause issue.I’m interested in the truth. I tend to post on anything where I can smell bullshit as an independent blogger.
Then go to Eddie’s post and comment on it ffs.
This isn’t a free billboard for you to advertise your bullshit on.
An independent blogger, not a partisan blogger?
I thought you guys were interested in the free flow of information? Turning on people who post here isn’t exactly going to promote that is it?
[lprent: You probably need to read the policy.
That is followed by a whole pile of do nots. But “robust debate” means that participants can expect others to attack ideas, sources of information, attitudes, and philosophies without the moderators considering that is worth their effort to intervene. We assume most commentators can defend themselves otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
Moderators will tend to intervene if it descends into pointless abuse, flame wars, or just looks too much like a deliberate bully session. It does get pretty tough getting agreement. The standing joke is that most of the time you only get to a agree to disagree basis – but at least others will know of the other viewpoints. Sometimes you will observe attitude changes in other later…
You can usually raise a moderator by framing something that looks like a request of clarification or an interpretation of the bounds (like you just did) or doing a don’t. Of course moderators only run roughly the same policies, so it pays not to stray too close to the edges (not that you have so far) in case you get IrishBill with a hangover. ]
Do whatever you like that is within the rules.
Similarly we will tell you what we think of what you’re doing. In this case, we don’t think much of it at all. That’s never stopped Pete George though.
Big smile on my face! Where is PG? tell me he has been struck off the list, or is he scrubbing the hair’s curling tongs?
[lprent: He caught a 4 week vacation for attacking a author rather the contents of their post. Philu has been speaking up in his defense and against the evil moderation system.
I have been trying to figure out how he triggers the spam trap sometimes and not on others. It is pretty weird. ]
Last time I looked he was over on Red Alert instead driving them up the wall with his infantile thought processes. CV followed him over for a while and did him over. My advice is stay away from RA for another couple of weeks at least.
Sometimes sacrifice in the line of duty must be made
And, wouldn’t you know it, progressive taxation is good for you.
Thanks for the policy link.
Monique, there are reply buttons below each comment, not just in the box at the bottom of the page. Can you please use them rather than comment anew each time? It helps to keep alive that vital free flow of communication! Thanks.
And once more Family First (aka Bob McCroskrie’s Boner) has vomited forth a study, with an author known for cherry picking and “traditional” values:
http://www.badscience.net/category/aric-sigman/
Yay.
Bonus points for patriarchal bullshit too with the “full-time mother” claim, because males so can’t be a full-time parent/bring home teh bacon…
QT 8/2/12
Another 12 -0 drubbing.
Surely the opposition parties can do better than this.
lol, you don’t get a point just for forming an answer. The points are for what’s revealed or concealed.
I can just see you sitting by the radio with that idiot grin on your face yelling “YUSSS, HE KNEW THE ANSWER!”
You so funny.
Sign petition in support of President Nasheed
http://act.350.org/sign/help_nasheed/?akid=1576.520389.1bbm8r&rd=1&t=2
To the best of my knowledge, it’s about allegiance to and a desire to be associated with Britain, as against those who wanted nothing to do with Britain. I may well have got that wrong, I am going by what my son who studied all this at school (he’s an atheist BTW) told me he learned. We’re Scots, and I don’t care about Ireland.
A timely quote from Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol (today was his 200th birthday):
Are polling companies allowed to use the electoral roll for recruiting subjects?
The reason I ask is that I was called by ‘Curia’ for one of their political polls and after I put the phone down I realised the poller had asked for me by Christian and Surname, and I’m only listed in the phone book by initials.
It seems an awful lot of trouble to got to – electoral roll and then the phone book. And it seemed to violate the anonymity, knowing exactly who you are and where you live. In previous non-curia polls the caller asked for a demographic, not a particular person.
It was an interesting poll.
interesting – if curia was using the electronic electoral roll for commercial purposes, that would be illegal.
i’m sure farrar would have an electronic roll for his national party work, but commercial use of the roll must be confined to the publicly available hardcopies.
Yeah, I thought there were restrictions on using the electoral roll. And I can’t imagine how else they could know my christian name. Where would I get more info on the correct use of the electoral roll?
from the electoral commission. call them and explain your concerns
Why the distinction between the electronic and hardcopy versions, sprout?
Surely they contain the same info and pose exactly the same privacy concerns.
And how would you ever prove which was used anyway?
much harder to use the hardcopy for mass spamming and other commercial enterprises
yes same info (almost, the e ver is richer) and same concerns, but when limited to hardcopy it’s much much harder to exploit those millions of records. there are bound to be lots of sound reasons why the roll needs to be made public, but limiting access to the e version helps to slow down its misuse.
not easy to prove, that’s why the electoral commission are very picky about who they allow access to the electronic version. if they were to discover provable commercial use of the e version, they’d prosecute with considerable prejudice. if they had sufficient reason they might be able to get a search warrant executed.
Complaint emailed to the electoral commission.
Btw it was obviously the National Party that commissioned the poll.
It may be hard to prove, but can you think of another way that pollsters based in Auckland or Wellington would know the christian name of a random participant in the provinces?
edit just checked caller display – Wgton number.
I’m in the mainland.
Shaky in the south tonight
4.3 and 4.2 close to lyttelton
no fun
http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/recent_quakes.html
they are heading in my direction. may as well stay up all night now.
not much good for the nerves
Three months for me… I am on it while they attempt to diagnose without the aid of a Tardis, what happened in the ‘incident’…
Nick S, apology accepted.
I hope you’re better now, food poisoning is awful!