Open mike 09/10/2011

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1. logie97 1

   9 October 2011 at 7:49 am

   Says it all really of the MSM – when the Herald puts up as web-page headline, links to commentary written by Year 11 Students. (That’s the old Fifth Form or Level 1 NCEA, people)

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/college-herald/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502920&objectid=10757205
   • Jumbuck 1.1

     9 October 2011 at 8:15 am

     Bit sad but unsurprising that the media think his reasoning is sound. In fact, he sounds a lot like most of what you’ll read in the papers – stuff wrtten by people 20 or 30 years older than him. Which is sadder still. If I were an English teacher, I’d have kids write opinions like that and then show them how to examine the evidence of their thinking processes.
     • marsman 1.1.1

       9 October 2011 at 6:09 pm

       It’s the logic used by the Centre for Independent Thought, the neoliberal political lobby group, and the piece is formulated in much the same way as their usual opinion pieces in the MSM. It’s clever sounding, patronising bullshit.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.2

     9 October 2011 at 11:28 am

     The kid obviously needs lessons in logic.

     /shrug

     It’s probably just the drivel that he’s been told by his father and nothing he’s actually thought about or researched.
2. Arthur 2

   9 October 2011 at 8:43 am

   John Key to visit the Rena. Is he walking there?
   • millsy 2.1

     9 October 2011 at 10:55 am

     The guy’s been walking on water for the past 5 years…
     • Janice 2.1.1

       9 October 2011 at 5:43 pm

       No i have just heard, he flew over. He also told the country that it is inevitible that the oil will come ashore, guy knows everything.
   • Deadly_NZ 2.2

     9 October 2011 at 11:23 am

     Just another pic for his photo album. Him smiling at the camera, telling everyone it’ll be alright cos we have started the hunt for people, to do what our doc people used to do, we will pay them heaps as consultants. Have faith we will muddle through.
3. just saying 3

   9 October 2011 at 8:44 am

   http://www.victoria.ac.nz/psyc/attachments/wilson-2011-sst-descriptive-summary.pdf

   Especially for Draco T:

   With all the usual reservations about standardised personality and aptitiude testing, and the limitations of surveys, (and I have a lot, especially where used with individuals rather than groups), here is an extended summary of Marc Wilson’s NZ personality, attitudes, and political preferences survey.

   It does make interesting reading, for quirky things, e.g. the association between authoritarianism and moustache wearing in men (confirms a long held predjudice of mine), and more important stuff.
   • Bill 3.1

     9 October 2011 at 9:42 am

     Problem with those types of surveys is that the questions themselves are deeply orthodox and conservative.

     eg (just as a throw-a-way) Co-operation doesn’t figure as a main heading value in that particular survey.

     If questions were such that people had to rely on their ‘innate’ sensibilities to respond, rather than their interpretation or reactions to ‘orthodoxy as propaganda’, then the responses would be remarkably different in some instances.

     I remember posting a British Attitudes survey results from the Guardian a while back that showed this. On questions couched in orthodoxy, the results were quite conservative or right wing. But when the same attitudes were sought employing questions outside the bounds of ‘received wisdom’, the results were often diametrically opposed.
     • Carol 3.1.1

       9 October 2011 at 9:53 am

       I did the survey and had difficulty with the liberal/conservative spectrum. To me liberal attitudes are pretty much centre of the left-right spectrum and based in notions of individualism and individual social rights – rather than, for instance, in the relative power/marginalisation of various social/demographic groups. I don’t see the left-right spectrum as just one focused solely on economic issues, as assumed in the above linked summary of the survey results.

       PS: The listed scales of published indexes the survey was based on seemed to include are pretty skewed list of topics: e.g. hunting attitudes, food diaries, conspiracy beliefs, religious orthodoxy and fundamentalism (the latter 2 quite US-centric IMO), competitiveness, paranoia and death anxiety… and nothing on co-operation as mentioned above by Bill.
     • just saying 3.1.2

       9 October 2011 at 10:04 am

       Taken as read Bill.

       There’s no way it can not be skewed and show incomplete and inaccurate pictures, for a myriad of reasons.
   • ianmac 3.2

     9 October 2011 at 11:17 am

     On page 15 “Where does John Key fall on these continua?” This was a self answering set rather than what others might assess. What this shows is a self delusional approach to life. But what sort of person would score thus:
     Maybe a middle aged bloke who is doing a simple job and who goes fishing in his weekend and drinks the odd beer with his mates and gets on well with his easy-going wife and 3 kids, would also score highly on the Agreeableness, Emotional Stability, and Openess self scoring.
     • just saying 3.2.1

       9 October 2011 at 11:29 am

       I laughed at that too. It doesn’t reflect well on Wilson as an academic, that he took the answers given by a named politician (in an election year to boot), as being a genuine reflection of his personality. Naive to say the least.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

         9 October 2011 at 12:54 pm

         Hare Psychopathy Checklist

         Because an individual’s score may have important consequences for his or her future, and because the potential for harm if the test is used or administered incorrectly is considerable, Hare argues that the test should only be considered valid if administered by a suitably qualified and experienced clinician under controlled and licensed conditions.

         I’d say that would be true of any psychological test especially when you consider that psychopaths are very good at pretending to be normal, ie, they know the answers that are being looked for. I’d say that John Keys actions (throat slash to Labour, his snide remarks and sneer in parliament, and his obvious snap decisions (Pike River getting the bodies out etc etc)) show that he was less than truthful on the test.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.3

     9 October 2011 at 12:43 pm

     Quoting referenced article.

     In fact, Act supporters endorsed ‘protecting freedom of speech’ more than any other party (remember they value self-direction as much as the Greens), but (paradoxically) were also second-least concerned about giving people a say in government decisions.

     It’s not paradoxical at all. Act supporters want to do whatever they like, whenever they like without anybody else having a say no matter if they’re affected by the Act supporters actions or not. It is this unconcern about their actions affects others that make them (libertarians in general) dictators hiding behind liberal values. They, quite simply, don’t want others to have a say in what they do.
     • McFlock 3.3.1

       9 October 2011 at 4:25 pm

       Indeed – tory “freedoms” are when THEY get to do what they want, without being inconvenienced by anyone else.
   • Vicky32 3.4

     9 October 2011 at 6:50 pm

     here is an extended summary of Marc Wilson’s NZ personality, attitudes, and political preferences survey.

     For some reason, despite many tries, I can’t get it to load..
4. joe90 4

   9 October 2011 at 9:24 am

   From the department of criminalising a whole country.

   Under the French HADOPI law 60 ISP account holders have received their third strike, 650,000 have received “first strike” notices with 44,000 of those receiving a second strike as well.
5. Dave Kennedy 5

   9 October 2011 at 10:16 am

   There is an alternative to mining lignite in Southland that will provide long term benefits for the region, silica.
   http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/10/silica-not-lignite-should-be-southlands.html
   • Lanthanide 5.1

     9 October 2011 at 10:23 am

     I think the lignite mining proposal is really this government’s response to peak oil: a coal to liquids plant. IIRC I read that once production gets up to full levels it’ll be able to provide about 2/3rds of the countries annual consumption of diesel.
     • Dave Kennedy 5.1.1

       9 October 2011 at 10:41 am

       But does the cost of producing that diesel from such a filthy source make it truly viable, Lanthanide? I can see the lignite mines of Southland becoming like the tar sand mining in Canada. Peter Jackson didn’t require a real Modor for his movies and there is no reason to create one out of our farmland. If we reduced the demand for diesel (increased rail use etc) we wouldn’t be so dependent on it. Producing more diesel in such a desperate way is just delaying the transition to other forms of energy.
     • millsy 5.1.2

       9 October 2011 at 10:53 am

       As I understand it, it takes more energy to extract the diesel from lignite than what the aforementioned diesel produces, so it will probably be very uneconomic to run those lignite fields.

       I belive that the Alberta tar sands have the same problems, though Harper and his gang of merry men are too stupid to realise it. We are better off leaving the lignite where it is (or at least finding a more economical use for it)
       • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1

         9 October 2011 at 11:01 am

         As I understand it, it takes more energy to extract the diesel from lignite than what the aforementioned diesel produces

         Nope, you’re looking at it the wrong way, although you are quite right to bring up the EROEI discussion.

         The lignite is a source of energy itself, and you can use it to provide most of the energy investment (particularly thermal energy) required to get a L of diesel out, without having to source that much external energy from offsite.

         BTW it’s an approximate 40% conversion loss to convert lignite into diesel. IE you start with 1MJ of lignite, but you only get 0.6MJ of diesel out.
         • Dave Kennedy 5.1.2.1.1

           9 October 2011 at 11:48 am

           The long term future of Southland’s lignite region is food production. This highly fertile farmland will be lost to open cast mines that will not be restored to farmland by Solid Energy but turned into “recreational lakes”.
           http://www.facebook.com/pages/Leave-the-Lignite-Save-the-Soil/129179047159254
           • Lanthanide 5.1.2.1.1.1

             9 October 2011 at 8:45 pm

             The lignite being dug up and turned into diesel will produce more food nationally, as well as allow it to be distributed, than the land that would be ruined by any open cast mining.
             • Colonial Viper …

               9 October 2011 at 8:56 pm

               Perhaps, but someone will have to do the math on that assertion. And there may be other ways of achieving the same thing while leaving the lignite in the ground.
               • Lanthanide …

                 9 October 2011 at 9:07 pm

                 What’s more productive: modern industrial farming with fossil-fuel derived pesticides, fertilisers and farm equipment such as tractors and ploughs, or 19th century farming techniques that don’t have those things?
                 • Dave Kennedy …

                   9 October 2011 at 10:53 pm

                   Lanthanide-Dairy farms produce huge amounts of waste that could easily be converted into methanol based fuel.

                   I recently heard a dairy farmer talking about his conversion to organic methods (contemporary not 19th century) and he has found greater profits. He spends a minimum on supplementary feed and artificial fertilizer and both his pastures and his cows are healthier. His cows live twice as long and require fewer medications as well. It works:
                   http://www.organicnz.org/108/the-profitability-of-organic-dairy-farming/

                   Despite organic dairy products being popular and profitable, Fonterra has recently removed their support.

                   You also have to consider the costs of the huge increase in carbon emissions from using lignite, over 17 million tonnes annually.
                   http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/04/lignite-mining-what-price-for-future.html
6. Penny Bright 6

   9 October 2011 at 10:52 am

   Seen this?

   Do you think John Key and his bank$ter mates will approve of this USA bill to ‘nationalise the Federal Reserve’?

   Dennis Kucinich introduces key bill to nationalise the Federal Reserve

   Dennis Kucinich
   You Tube
   October 6, 2011

   Washington D.C. (October 4, 2011) — Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today released the following video and statement in support of the protestors on Wall Street and around the country who have identified themselves with the hashtag #OccupyWallStreet.

   …

   “We need a government of the people and for the people. We need a financial system that is of the people and for the people. It is time we take our nation back and take our monetary system back from the big banks.

   “I recently introduced H.R. 2990, the National Emergency Employment Defense Act, to put the Federal Reserve under the Treasury, to end the practice of fractional reserve banking and to take control of our monetary policy and make sure it works for the people.

   “We can use our Constitutional authority to coin money and spend it into circulation to put millions of Americans back to work in a way that is noninflationary. The time for bold change is now.

   “We are the American people. Our dream of freedom and prosperity is too big to fail.”

   http://www.infowars.com/dennis-kucinich-tells-occupy-wall-street-to-nationalize-the-federal-reserve/

   Penny Bright
   Independent ‘Public Watchdog’
   Candidate for Epsom
   Campaigning against ‘White Collar’ CRIME, CORPORATE WELFARE, CORRUPTION – and its root cause – PRIVATISATION (how is it decided who gets the contract$?)
7. Carol 7

   9 October 2011 at 11:18 am

   There was some interesting and informative stuff on Media Watch on RNZ this morning:

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday

   There was a report on the current goevernment’s use of urgency, with justifications from Simon Power, criticisms from opposition MPs ( Chauvel, Greens, Goff), plus a more nuanced critique by a Vic Uni academic who has been researching use of urgency since the 90s, and comments by law lecturers like Andrew Geddis.

   But I was gobsmacked to hear that Bomber (about 26 mins on the mediawatch audio file) has been excluded from Jim Mora’s afternoon Panel in the future. This is because, last Thursday, he read his “partisan” blog and Stratos rants about the PM’s response to the guy who attempted to jump from the public gallery of Parliament.

   This kind of thing:
   http://tumeke.blogspot.com/2011/10/keys-attempt-to-blame-labour-for-man.html

   Part of the reason for exclusion related to Bomber talking over Mora. However, the main reason given by RNZ is that Bomber unacceptably breached RNZ’s editorial policies. The RNZ editor claims Bomber breached their requirement for fairness and balance, that they hadn’t been advised in advance that Bomber was going to strongly criticise the PM, and wouldn’t jeopardise RNZ’s hard earned reputation for “fairness and balance” – really? on The Panel?

   Sorry… didn’t see that Anthony had already posted on this, in the last hour.
   .
   • ianmac 7.1

     9 October 2011 at 11:25 am

     I missed that panel discussion and tried to get it on replay radio but Part 2 was not hung up. Now I know why.
     Ever heard Matthew Hooton talk over both Katherine or whoever is the Left commentator? And promote some pretty nasty stuff. To be consistent Hooton would be banned but surprise surprise? Not
8. the pink postman 8

   9 October 2011 at 3:48 pm

   This morning has been spent on the Cambridge Labour Party stall.
   We take a lot of flake in Tory Cambridge, but today has been different .A number of people have told us they are voting Labour .Many saying they were fed up with Key ,this from Cambridge the heart of Toryism. This branch has had a stall here for about 15 years and never has there been a positive response like this . Has there been a change in attitude over the last few days? Has the outburst of madness from Key over the balcony incident made people realise just what Key is like. Has anyone else noticed this change?
   • Colonial Viper 8.1

     9 October 2011 at 4:00 pm

     I’ve spent some time this weekend campaigning in some very Tory suburbs.

     A few evil looks from passer-bys in flash new vehicles but a lot of people I talked to were interested in the Labour message or at least neutral and wanting more information. AND we got some new volunteers for Labour as well.

     There was some reminiscing about the Helen Clark days too.

     This fight is only just starting.
   • Vicky32 8.2

     9 October 2011 at 6:56 pm

     Has there been a change in attitude over the last few days? Has the outburst of madness from Key over the balcony incident made people realise just what Key is like. Has anyone else noticed this change?

     Let’s (cautiously) hope!
   • mickysavage 8.3

     9 October 2011 at 9:16 pm

     Good stuff PP.  In Auckland I cannot reconcile the polls with the on the ground feeling.  I am hoping that on November 28 the tories will say “bugger the polls” …
9. felix 9

   9 October 2011 at 6:39 pm

   After further consideration I’m siding with the speaker on his recent banhammering.

   The chap from the Herald thinks his reporters should follow the standing orders up to the point where they reckon they shouldn’t. He reckons this was such an extraordinary situation that breaking the rules was justified.

   But look at what they were reporting. Was this a matter of crucial importance to our democracy? Nah, they don’t do that sort of reporting because they reckon no-one’s interested. Political journalism is strictly limited to “who’s winning the horse race this week”. It’s sports coverage.

   They published Audrey’s photo for one reason only: the sensationalist value of the story.

   So fuck ’em. It’s high time they started earning their press gallery credentials by acting as our fourth estate instead of the gossip hacks they’ve reduced themselves to.
   • mickysavage 9.1

     9 October 2011 at 9:18 pm

     I do not know why they did not go to Smith and show him Audrey’s iPhone and say “mind if we print this”?  A quiet word to Joyce and I am sure it could have been arranged.
   • RedLogix 9.2

     9 October 2011 at 11:15 pm

     The Speaker does have a valid point. Giving media oxygen to Public Gallery protests would open a very undesirable floodgate.

     However his response was OTT which played into the hands of the Herald.
10. randal 10

    9 October 2011 at 7:04 pm

    too right felix. these little popinjays from the herald are starting to believe their own bylines. What was a personal tragedy is just an excuse for them to break down the dignity of parliament in a manner that the neo -cons would be proud of. They should get real jobs before they get shoulder tapped in J school for being obedient servants of the bosses that employ them and kid them along that they are doing something mneaningful.
    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      9 October 2011 at 7:12 pm

      Every one wants their next job to be as Key’s Press Secretary, and maybe after that, Chair of Radio New Zealand (or TVNZ).
      • tc 10.1.1

        9 October 2011 at 8:11 pm

        We don’t so much have media but mediums for delivering their masters message…media works was a bargain using taxpayers dosh, TVNZ and granny were already onside with the nats so neutering RNZ via Griffin etc just rounded it out nicely.

        It’s the arrogance and aloofness of sideshows mob in general and in treating Epsom like a doormat mat that should make this a lot more interesting than the MSM would have you believe.
11. Lanthanide 11

    9 October 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Pretty big quake just now, some distance away. I’m guessing 5-5.5M on banks peninsula, so Akaroa might be a little screwed.
    • Zetetic 11.1

      9 October 2011 at 8:54 pm

      looks like lyttleton/port hills

      7 on the intensity (not ritcher) scale. could be damaging.

      http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/shakenz-interactive.html
      • Lanthanide 11.1.1

        9 October 2011 at 9:00 pm

        5.5M
        That intensity scale is always way off so I wouldn’t bother with it.
        http://geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3591999g.html
12. Colonial Viper 12

    9 October 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Argies have 73% possession against the AB’s??? What is up with that???
    • Carol 12.1

      9 October 2011 at 9:42 pm

      JonKey is probably chewing his finger nails, blaming Phil Goff, and wondering if he should schedule some photo ops with Robbie Deans.
      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1

        9 October 2011 at 9:44 pm

        Good point. An Australian win will in fact be a New Zealand win because of Robbie Deans. Textor Crosby scribbling away furiously taking notes.
13. prism 13

    9 October 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Everything you wanted to know about national intelligence, but were afraid to ask! A refreshingly open look into intelligence gathering in Britain has been provided in the Reith Lectures this year on Radionz. During 4 ‘til 8 with Katrina Batten, as the former Director-General of the British security service MI5, Baroness Manningham-Buller has discussed the MI5 role and added her own comment and answered questions or not as possible (she has made the point that she finished her role in 2007).

    4:07 The Sunday Feature: The BBC Reith Lectures: Securing Freedom. This year’s annual BBC Radio’s Reith Lectures resume in our Sunday Feature slot this week. To mark the 10th anniversary of 9/11, the former Director-General of the British security service MI5, Baroness Manningham-Buller offers a unique perspective on the event, its impact on the world and the repercussions from it. She considers the role of security intelligence, and reflects more broadly on the threats to freedom and the means of countering them.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes//4til8

    There have been 3 or 4 lectures delivered in a cool and intelligent way. Matters discussed have been wide ranging and included Saudi Arabia and its actions to control extremism, and her feeling that fairer conditions and inclusion and advances for the lower class would reduce it. On the other hand she dropped in a comment on the need for infrastructure in Russia, after a Russian diplomat was (probably) stung into a comment after somebody made reference to the murder of one of their defectors. The Baroness remarked that they needed women’s toilets for visitors to the Lubianka prison. She had noted the lack of provision on a recent visit.

    Eliza Manningham-Buller was Director General of MI5, the British Security Service, from October 2002 until her retirement in April 2007. She led the organisation through substantial change in the wake of 9/11 and the growing threat from Al-Qaeda.
    Under her leadership MI5 doubled in size and altered its approach to the professional development of staff with the establishment of a training academy.
    See the BBC website to find out more about this programme.
14. Brett Dale 14

    9 October 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Big aftershock 5.5, biggest one i felt since june.
15. Campbell Larsen 15

    9 October 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Simon Bridges arguing against MMP – icky – just yuck.

    And while we are on icky – Simon Power goes on the list too, I find it hard to believe that he is really respected by both sides of the house, the relentless praise of the MSM for the ‘blitzkrieg legislator’ makes me suspect that he might be a comeback kid – I hope not, he doesn’t seem to care much for democracy (those pesky OIA requests and dealing with the media etc etc)
16. RedLogix 16

    9 October 2011 at 11:55 pm

    Ah so I’m old and I only just discovered humans could do this. Moogaloop and MoogaloopMore
    • felix 16.1

      10 October 2011 at 12:16 am

      Wow. Exactly like the dreams.
17. prism 17

    10 October 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Anyone interested in joining an elite team to go and clear mines from fields so small farmers could use them again? People thrill-oriented yet brave, disciplined and committed only. For a period of one month (first week on training). Must provide own transport and return ticket also medical insurance and death certificate fund to be held on behalf by group leader. Wouldn’t that be a holiday with a difference as a birthday present for the young man or woman who has it all?
    • lprent 17.1

      11 October 2011 at 1:22 am

      In complete bad taste, I would comment that they have a significiant probability of coming back with less.

      Personally I would only go near a minefield only if I absolutely had to.
18. Colonial Viper 18

    11 October 2011 at 1:31 am

    Tax the Rich!

    It seems Bill Gates may come out publicly in support of an FTT.

    Maybe.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/09/2011924125427182350.html

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