Open mike 11/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:50 am, August 11th, 2014 - 254 comments
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254 comments on “Open mike 11/08/2014 ”

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  1. Tiger Mountain 1
    11 August 2014 at 7:20 am

    In this busy pre-election period it seems the SIS bunglers still have their briefcases in a twist over Bill Sutch. Why now?

    An ex staff member using a Soviet snitch’s material has had another go which is no doubt annoying enough for the Sutch family. The plod concerned makes free with files while a number of citizens that applied for material held on them by the NZSIS during the brief “openess” period of Director Warren Tucker, received refusals (under the 1969 Act that protects living sources) or heavily redacted replies.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10369007/Fresh-twist-in-40-year-old-Cold-War-spy-mystery

    • Stuart Munro 1.1
      11 August 2014 at 8:32 am

      It means Key is scraping the bottom of his bottom drawer.

      This is the Gnats saying “I was right all along.”

      • Gosman 1.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 8:59 am

        Seems to me to be pretty self evident he was a Soviet spy. Why do you have an issue with this?

        • Stuart Munro 1.1.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 9:15 am

          Yeah but you believe in trickle down economics and muffins like Bill English.

          • Gosman 1.1.1.1.1
            11 August 2014 at 9:18 am

            You don’t know what I believe in. I certainly have never expressed a preference for trickledown economics (whatever that might be).

            However back to Dr Sutch being a spy. Why do you not think he was a spy? He fits the description given by the KGB for a spy in NZ and he also expressed admiration for the Soviet (read Stalinist) system. Why do you find it inconceivable that he was working for them?

    • karol 1.2
      11 August 2014 at 8:39 am

      Why now? Partly because the papers have just been released:

      The new evidence comes from papers copied by former top KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin, who defected in 1992.

      The papers have just been made public by Churchill College at Cambridge University in Britain. Only a few pages of the Mitrokhin records are devoted to New Zealand.

      It doesn’t look to me to be hard evidence against Sutch – the word of an ex-KGB spy. Some reference to meetings, but no evidence of anything Sutch is alleged to have done against NZ’s interests.

      • Gosman 1.2.1
        11 August 2014 at 9:03 am

        The question was whether he was a spy for the Soviets. It is not if th information he may have passed on was damaging to NZ’s interest.

        • Stuart Munro 1.2.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 9:18 am

          Did you ever see Russian accounting? Soviet vessels used to keep 5 different sets of books. None the same and none true. You need slightly more evidence than an uncorroborated record.

          • Gosman 1.2.1.1.1
            11 August 2014 at 9:23 am

            Why wouldn’t he be the person mentioned?

            • Stuart Munro 1.2.1.1.1.1
              11 August 2014 at 9:36 am

              Read Our Man in Havana.

              • Gosman …
                11 August 2014 at 9:52 am

                Why would I read a fiction novel by Graham Greene to understand why Sutch was not the person mentioned as being a spy in KGB archive material?

                • McFlock …
                  11 August 2014 at 11:41 am

                  tory fails in abstract reasoning again.
                  World stunned.

                  Gos, has it occurred to you that there’s a world of difference between a resident in a quiet backwater inflating the promise and possibilities of any contact with an individual, and that individual actually being a spy (even if the unnamed “recruit” were indeed Sutch)?

                  Not that you give a shit either way – just more mud created to throw around.

      • phillip ure 1.2.2
        11 August 2014 at 9:15 am

        “..Why now?..”..it has long been an unanswered question..

        ..’– the word of an ex-KGB spy..’..he is actually a defecting archivist..and these are copies of kgb files..

        ..hard to think why/how they wd be forgeries..

        .and it was a phenomenon of the times..

        ..academics/intellectuals deciding the soviet way was better/the future..

        ..and so deciding to ‘help’ them..

        ..so that ‘unanswered’-question about sutch wd now seem to have been answered..

        • Gosman 1.2.2.1
          11 August 2014 at 9:21 am

          So he was a spy/traitor as well as a supporter of a muderous regime if he is the person mentioned in the KGB archive material.

        • karol 1.2.2.2
          11 August 2014 at 9:23 am

          I wasn’t suggesting they are forgeries. I was thinking more that it is something the KGB claim – means little in relation to provide evidence of what actually went down.

          ..academics/intellectuals deciding the soviet way was better/the future..

          ..and so deciding to ‘help’ them..

          That is partly why I left the door open to what actually Sutch did or said to any alleged KGB operative. Note what I actually said:

          ” no evidence of anything Sutch is alleged to have done against NZ’s interests.”

          • phillip ure 1.2.2.2.1
            11 August 2014 at 9:37 am

            oh..!..ok..

          • Gosman 1.2.2.2.2
            11 August 2014 at 10:42 am

            As I stated it is irrelevant if Sutch believed what he was doing was not harming NZ’s interest. He was working as an operative for a foreign country and seemingly passed on information to them. As such he was a spy and traitor by extension.

            • tricledrown 1.2.2.2.2.1
              11 August 2014 at 10:58 am

              A double agent could easily have planted information like that just to ferment cynicism like your pathetic attempts goose!
              The man is not around to defend himself.
              Both the CIA and the KGB were as bad as each other who’s to say National aren’t linked to the Chinese govt’s spying agency given Stephen Joyce has signed a deal with Huawei who have caught spying in the US and the UK Aussie has banned Huawei. From their UFB for that very reason but National MP’s are easily bought of Oravida etc.
              How many sitting National MP’s their partners former National MP’s and partners involved in trade deals .
              Kiwirail how that going for you Gossipman!

            • McFlock 1.2.2.2.2.2
              11 August 2014 at 11:42 am

              He was working as an operative for a foreign country and seemingly passed on information to them. As such he was a spy and traitor by extension.

              Sorry, thought you were talking about John Key for a second there…

            • karol 1.2.2.2.2.3
              11 August 2014 at 11:49 am

              I didn’t say anything about what Sutch believed – I was only talking about his actions and communications with the KGB.

              NZ has been increasingly Americanised since early on in the 20th century. That has been part of the shift from UK empire to US empire. Americanisation has delivered us John Key, who does not work in the interests of the majority of NZers.

              • Tiger Mountain …
                11 August 2014 at 12:13 pm

                Wish I hadn’t posted on this now, was mainly interested in timing not revisiting the whole case.

                Karol is quite likely right, no plan by Nats or SIS, just fitted in with the archive material being released. But given that state security has been to the fore recently in public debate the elephantine memories at SIS HQ could hardly have resisted tabling this info now rather than wait.

                I would say too that if some people think acting against NZs interests is not the thing to do whether proven or not then the PM facilitating the NSA and FBI and US Corporates activities in NZ fits that description too.

            • tricledrown 1.2.2.2.2.4
              11 August 2014 at 12:43 pm

              So what was the big secret he passed on that Muldoon was a big dick head hardly a state secret!
              or that Muldoon tRaded lada”s for butter.
              Subsidized farmers
              Universal pension’s wiping out the self funding more free market approach wow what great secrets did Sutch give-away and links to what organizations!

            • meconism 1.2.2.2.2.5
              11 August 2014 at 9:31 pm

              If it is that important to you, grab your spade and dig him up and yell at him until you feel better about yourself.

            • Murray Olsen 1.2.2.2.2.6
              11 August 2014 at 9:35 pm

              FIFY Goosemann:

              It is irrelevant if Key believes what he is doing is not harming NZ’s interest. He is working as an operative for a foreign country and passes on information to them. As such he is a spy and traitor by extension.

  2. Paul 2
    11 August 2014 at 7:20 am

    ‘New global crash looming: bank boss’

    “Another crash in global asset prices could be brewing according to Raghuram Rajan, Governor of the Reserve Bank of India.”

    “Mr Rajan’s views on financial stability hold particular weight because in 2005, when he was chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, he gave a speech in the US at the influential Jackson Hole conference of central bankers, warning that an explosion in financial innovation had made the world riskier, rather than safer.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11306873

    • Ennui 2.1
      11 August 2014 at 8:43 am

      Did you really think that the previous crash was over? All the idiots in the MSM have been so focused on the voodoo stories of recovery globally that they have missed what is really going on (you might consider they were told to miss it by their masters):
      * the money supply was eased by “quantitative easing”….aka create credit aka new debt to cover the interest on old debts and allow money to flow. Note the debt did not go away.
      * the debt…now this is the real story: the private banks worldwide were bailed out by the taxpayer who had the debts effectively “transferred” to them by the banks, who were then allowed to create more money to loan to the taxpayers to pay the interest on the transferred debt, et voila (if you were a bankster) you get even richer with no risk.

      You will note no banker ever got prosecuted for this crisis. It has been the greatest financial swindle ever and through support of governments worldwide that are akin to our own financial traders regime the banksters have ripped us again.

      • Lanthanide 2.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 9:03 am

        The whole thing is a ponzi scheme that will eventually fall over (consider: everything ends, eventually). Probably when peak oil bites.

      • Gosman 2.1.2
        11 August 2014 at 9:07 am

        Except the bailout of the banks was paid bacvk by the banks with interest.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1
          11 August 2014 at 9:14 am

          [citation needed]

        • tricledrown 2.1.2.2
          11 August 2014 at 9:49 am

          Yeah right Gooseman not oneyour conman ponzi scheming bankers faced jail or any sanction all that has happened with the bail out is the perpetrators have been rewarded while the peasants have been punished over 4 million formerly housed Americans now living under tarpaulins and those who have got jobs are working now for a pittance.
          To Big to fail is how it was sold ,the international banking Cartels has never been more profitable as they have MONOPOLIZED the finacial system even more than before!
          No free market just a monopolized cartel!
          Even the libertarians said let them all fail goose you pathetic apologist hoe much do you get paid to put out your pathetic lies and propaganda goebals with no balls would be proud of your enthusiasm!

      • bad12 2.1.3
        11 August 2014 at 4:20 pm

        Aha, onto it Ennui, i havn’t read much of Marx etc but did read one obscure tract from Trotsky a while ago,(think it may have been produced as a pamphlet as ‘the thinker’s’ in those days were wont to do),

        Trotsky way back in the 20’s of last century pointed out that capitalism would eventually defeat itself in a series of crisis each more severe than the other,

        When the profits of capitalism are vastly overpowered by the losses incurred in the ongoing series of crisis the system will at some point completely fail seemed to be the gist of it…

  3. Rodel 3
    11 August 2014 at 7:25 am

    Winston vs Espiner this morning on RNZ-entertaining but I think Winnie is losing his sharpness.(Espiner too)

    • Janice 3.1
      11 August 2014 at 7:50 am

      Was Espiner ever sharp?

      • phillip ure 3.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 7:57 am

        not in any of his previous incarnations..

        ..his recent twitching-marrionette/white-guy-dancing/duo-thing with garner on that (in the main) slightly-warmed-over/clip-show pap that is third degree..

        ..being a personal/career nadir for him..and us..

        ..my expectations of espiner were low..so i haven’t been disappointed..

        ..and like many others..i can’t be fucked listening to him/morning report any more..

    • Olwyn 3.2
      11 August 2014 at 8:07 am

      I was amused at Winston’s back-footing Guyon by reminding him that he was paid by the taxpayer. So many of these guardians of “taxpayers money” are, and hate being reminded of the fact.

      • Chooky 3.2.1
        11 August 2014 at 8:47 am

        @ Olwyn

        yes i think most people dislike Espiner ( a-licker) and Suzie ( wrong)…so they have been giving Winnie/NZF free publicity by concentrating on the trivia of a joke …and ignoring Real NZF policy which is to retain New Zealand land for New Zealanders !

        Chinese land is kept for Chinese after all!

        China could buy New Zealand several million times over ( their own land is filthy and environmentally trashed with overpopulation)….why do John Key and the NACTS have to be so stupid?!…one has to ask this question….there must be something in it for them?….as we have seen with Judith Collins and Chinese husband stockpiling NZ swamp kauri which Maori artists treasure for their carving and art

        ….these are the real questions…but you would never hear them asked on the Morons Morning Report where in reality ‘Two Wrongs Make a Right ‘

        • Gosman 3.2.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 9:05 am

          Chinese land is not kept for Chinese. It is merely not able to be sold to anyone Chinese or otherwise.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1
            11 August 2014 at 9:16 am

            Yes, China keeps it for the security of the Chinese people rather than allowing it to be sold for the enrichment of a few psychopaths.

            • Gosman 3.2.1.1.1.1
              11 August 2014 at 9:33 am

              The security of the Chinese people that the government constantly suppresses.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                11 August 2014 at 9:48 am

                I didn’t say that they were perfect but they are doing the right thing as far as Chinese land is concerned.

              • tricledrown …
                11 August 2014 at 12:15 pm

                Gossipman you and National are doing the same here in New Zealand!
                With your bought off right wing Media manipulating the public by only letting one side have fair say your an example of trying to suppress left wing commentary here with your continual lies like your leader

                • Gosman …
                  11 August 2014 at 12:20 pm

                  If you think the current government is as oppressive as the Chinese government I think your perception is seriously warped.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    11 August 2014 at 3:34 pm

                    Quite right – the Chinese government genuinely strives to improve conditions for Chinese workers and to improve their trade position. Their corruption is tempered by their nationalism and serious corruption attracts capital punishment.

                    The Key National government is neither as clean nor as economically savvy as the Chinese government.

          • tricledrown 3.2.1.1.2
            11 August 2014 at 12:14 pm

            Goose Bullshit goose more lies!
            they will sell land to anyone who can afford a bribe you idiot!
            Not unlike Nationals behaviour in office here!

            • Gosman 3.2.1.1.2.1
              11 August 2014 at 12:21 pm

              Who will sell land to anyone who can pay a bribe?

              Also I’m pretty sure you don’t understand what a lie actually is. As stated please provide me evidence where I have lied.

              • tricledrown …
                11 August 2014 at 12:47 pm

                How many Chinese property billionaires are their in China

                • Gosman …
                  11 August 2014 at 12:53 pm

                  None that own the land outright that I am aware. I believe they lease it. It is the lease and associated buildings on the land that is worth billions.

                  I’m still waiting for you to show where I have lied. Even if I am wrong on this subject (which I don’t believe I am) that does not mean I am lying.

                  • Tiger Mountain …
                    11 August 2014 at 12:59 pm

                    Bing!
                    –logical fallacy there Gossie; “burden of proof”

                    • Gosman …
                      11 August 2014 at 1:19 pm

                      Ummmm…no. You have obviously not read the poster you linked to. It would be a logical fallacy if I argued that someone should disprove that the Chinese state only allows land to be leased and not sold outright as I had made the claim. However all I have done is stated that is what I believe and am quite willing for someone to show if I am wrong. Even if I was wrong it is not evidence I have lied just that I am mistaken.

                    • Tiger Mountain …
                      11 August 2014 at 2:44 pm

                      “I’m still waiting for you to show where I have lied. Even if I am wrong on this subject (which I don’t believe I am) that does not mean I am lying.”–Gosman

                      Alright, just for you Gossie–a new category “shape shifting”

                  • tricledrown …
                    11 August 2014 at 1:13 pm

                    Gossipman read your business stories Blooberg business !
                    local govts seize shared land and sell it for 18 times what they pay for it corruption on a grand scale when it comes to Chinese business practice’s I wouldn’t be surprised if that hasn’t spilled over to those involved in New Zealand as knowing some very high powered businessmen who have set up very large businees ventures in China! it takes to long to get deals done otherwise ask Judith Collins why Orivida got its milk powder in while not one other company did!

                  • McFlock …
                    11 August 2014 at 1:30 pm

                    Even if I am wrong on this subject (which I don’t believe I am) that does not mean I am lying.

                    only in the sense that Banks claimed he’d not knowingly signed a false return.

                    • Gosman …
                      11 August 2014 at 1:45 pm

                      Except there was evidence that was accepted by the court that Banks did know about the donation and had asked for it to be split. That is why he was convicted. There isn’t any evidence that I am aware that I have knowingly stated something that is not correct.

                    • tricledrown …
                      11 August 2014 at 2:02 pm

                      So now you are calling the judge a liar Gossipman

                    • Gosman …
                      11 August 2014 at 2:08 pm

                      No, I am not calling the judge a liar. Now where is your evidence I have lied?

                    • tricledrown …
                      11 August 2014 at 2:37 pm

                      Gossipman I think if you read your weasel words it explains your definition of lying!
                      John Banks is history he lied through his teeth thinking because other politician had got away with more that he was above the law!
                      AS a former Police minister he should lot lie in court.
                      Banks lied on many occasions to cover his original lie.
                      He got what he deserved a huge fall from grace.
                      If he just had admitted his wrong doing none of this would have happened!
                      Now its John Brain Fade Keys turn to be taken down by his own lies if he had just admitted i may have or i did know about KDC then it would be a storm in a TEA CUP!
                      But now Brain Fade Key has painted himself into a corner being the head of the SIS and GSCB and the saying when questioned about the increased spying laws he was introducing Brain Fade Keys response was nothing to worry about their are only a few five people on the list and I know all their names !
                      Then their is the fact that KDC shouted NZ the Fireworks,KDC lives in BrainFade Keys electorate .
                      in the flashiest house yeah Key will need to have cups of tea GALORE!
                      Gossipman have a cup of tea and lie down and just admit your have been lying land ownership in China yeah right you are always right not even.
                      Remember Banks said nothing derogatory at his cup of tea another lie that Banks and Key tried to cover up!

                    • McFlock …
                      11 August 2014 at 3:02 pm

                      There isn’t any evidence that I am aware that I have knowingly stated something that is not correct.

                      that’s what Banks thought, too.

                      BTW, I believe the Shania Twain “purchase” was of high country leasehold land. That pissed people off, too, when the new “owners” wanted to get rid of the public track through that land.

                    • weka …
                      11 August 2014 at 3:10 pm

                      People had more access to the station previously, and after the sale the new owners allowed, or maybe built, a single track that people are allowed on. This is an ongoing problem, not just restricted to overseas owners, whereby traditional NZer access to land is being restricted. Much of this is to do with tourism, changes in landowners and loss of traditional values/customs, and also accidents like the beekeeper in the farm bridge that have made farmers excessively cautious.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 August 2014 at 3:32 pm

                      cheers weka

                      I just recall front page odt maps of the walking track and suchlike – ’twas a while ago now 🙂

                  • tricledrown …
                    11 August 2014 at 1:50 pm

                    Gossipman every post you have put up has been a lie gossipman especially in the last week I and others have proved you wrong and even defended your one and only truthful statement about the rate of Farm ownership read Rod Oram while your about it!
                    Gossipman chinese land ownership Wrong again!
                    I hope you are not getting paid unless its per lie you tell!

                  • tricledrown …
                    11 August 2014 at 2:04 pm

                    Not very aware for a right wing pro business party supporter.
                    Poor excuse for lying

                    • Gosman …
                      11 August 2014 at 2:07 pm

                      Again what lie have I supposedly told and what evidence do you have to support your view that it is a lie?

              • tricledrown …
                11 August 2014 at 1:02 pm

                Gosman The banks have paid it all back + interest is more lies their customers have paid it all back as the banks got all the printed money at less than 1/2% interest in some cases the govt paid banks interest to take the loans free money!
                That your Bill English and John Key borrowed and forced us tax payers to pay 6% on average when these multinational banks were paying nothing its costing you and me the taxpayer $4.5 billion a year just in interest Gosman we are paying it back!
                All the bankruptcies and job losses loss home foreclosures that the Bank of America for example was given huge sums to allow loans to be renegotiated were not given to the foreclosed homes that could not be sold because no one had any money except the occupier ,was paid out in dividends to share holders such as your leader John Key!
                Bank of America even foreclosed on homes it didn’t have mortgages on kicked rightful owners out of their houses because the repo agents got the addresses wrong not one or two but hundreds!

  4. phillip ure 4
    11 August 2014 at 7:25 am

    john key on breakfast tv on one..

    ..wow..!..just ‘wow!’..

    ..he’s really running scared..

    ..and just sat there throwing fistsfull of shit at laila harre..and dotcom..

    ..sneered at the man who took down banks..as ‘that macready’…(!)

    ..insinuated that labours’ raising the pension age would mean that someone currently aged 64..will see their pension-age suddenly jump to 67…

    (an arguably potent tactic i and others have warned labour will be facing..with this policy..a policy they have explained so poorly..

    ..key can chance his arm at getting away with porkies that large..

    ..and of course christie has his tongue so far up key..any questioning by him is too muffled to be heard..(not that he does that..questions the serial-bullshit/spin/lies key serves up to him every mon morn..

    ..christie just laps it up..like the eager to please puppy he is..)

    ..and all in all..key looked about as ‘relaxed’ as a crackhead coming down…

    • Paul 4.1
      11 August 2014 at 7:34 am

      Christie must be the worst journalist in NZ.

      • phillip ure 4.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 7:36 am

        i have him and susan wood..neck and neck…

        ..fot that particular gong..

        ..the stickman in the pak ‘n save ads wd probably do a better job of interviewing key..

        ..he couldn’t do worse..

        • phillip ure 4.1.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 9:00 am

          and christie has one final arse-kissing sign-off..

          ..noting/arguing that the ‘sugar-daddy’ comment from key..and the ‘two wongs’ from peters..

          ..’does not mean they are evil men’..

          ..(oh..!..the humanity of the man!…so quick to forgive..eh..?..bless him..!..)

        • minarch 4.1.1.2
          11 August 2014 at 11:12 am

          “.the stickman in the pak ‘n save ads wd probably do a better job of interviewing key.”

          thats a GREAT idea !!

          • crocodill 4.1.1.2.1
            11 August 2014 at 2:18 pm

            I dunno. Stickman and Key have close similarities:

            John Key: “Tax cuts for the rich!”

            Stickman: “Is that like $1.99 week at Pak n Save?”

            John Key: “Yep.”

            Stickman: “That’s great news!”

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      11 August 2014 at 10:05 am

      Brent Edwards very positive about Labour’s launch today on MR.

      He said all expenditure announced had been costed for. Contrast this with Key peevishly saying Labour are promising spending of “16 billion dollars”.

      Edwards also said Cunliffe’s delivery was good and that this was what the people who voted for a change of leader last year hoped for. Worth a listen:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20145186/election-campaigns-kick-off

      And anyone claiming Cunliffe’s face is not fronting the campaign (a la Goff) take a look at the size of the picture of Cunliffe’s face on the Labour campaign bus. Excellent.

      At the same time on MR there was discussion of a damning report on the shortage of specialist doctors in the health service, which must be laid at the door of this government. Ryall tries to say the doctors are supporting Labour on this and makes a fool of himself. Listen here:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20145193/shortage-of-senior-specialist-doctors

      Over the last month Nats have been invisible, Labour good policy and sounding like a government in waiting.

      • phillip ure 4.2.1
        11 August 2014 at 10:10 am

        i didn’t see the speech..but i saw/heard the media scrum around cunnliffe post-launch..

        ..and heard an inpromptu speech he gave outside the venue..

        ..and cunnliffe was brimming over with all that he needed on the day..

        ..looking every inch the successful-candidate..

    • Once was Pete 4.3
      11 August 2014 at 4:23 pm

      I am old enough to remember Muldoon’s dancing Cossacks. That was a real low in political advertising, but this new development inspired by IMP descends to depths never before seen in NZ politics. There is no place here for this sort of stunt. We do not want these sorts of orchestrated meetings here with there violent overtones, and burning of effigies is just plain distasteful. Just plain hate politics. more reminiscent of the KKK. Do you think it is a coincidence that anti- semitism has also crept into the campaign?
      Harre can protest as much as she likes but IMP introduced this ‘style’ into the campaign, and as I understand the law, she won’t have any chance of getting traction on threats of legal action. Just who is running scared?
      I want to vote left, but there is no chance of that with these loonies in the wings. There is no chance of Labour reclaiming the middle ground without kicking these fools to touch.

      • phillip ure 4.3.1
        11 August 2014 at 4:42 pm

        oh well pete..u can relax now..

        ..the effigy-burning was nothing to do with dotcom/internet/mana..

        ..just more lies from key..

        ..aided and abetted by that weasel rawdon christie..

      • bad12 4.3.2
        11 August 2014 at 5:11 pm

        Once was Pete, who is this WE you speak of, expressions of anger such as flag burning have long been a ‘tool’ of the political discourse here and around the world,

        This We you claim to represent, obviously you want an election campaign along the lines of what Granny Herald’s Granny Fran O’Sullivan called for in Her weekend column, effete, polite, boring, designed to only impress those stuffed into their shirts,

        Whomever this WE is from your comment above obviously either doesn’t understand the inherent violence inflicted on people by this National Government’s policies, or, if they do, as many would, do not in fact give a shit if you will excuse the expression,

        Even in your comment here, labeling a political movement as ‘Loonies’ is somewhat of a violent reaction, the best aspect of you doing so is that such ‘labeling’ makes the Green party look positively ‘straight’ and thus your abject fear of the InternetMana expressed in terms of your above comment is to be welcomed,

        Quite frankly i am extremely happy with the InternetMana Party campaign so far, it would seem that those the campaign has set out to influence are responding to a certain extent, it is of course a wait and see as to if such a camapign translates into votes,

        i am tho picking this election to be the final gasp for NZFirst, and, Labour 33%, Green 12% along with InternetMana 5%,

        You can choose to be ‘on board’ or not, i doubt you will be missed if the answer happens to transpire to be not…

  5. phillip ure 5
    11 August 2014 at 7:36 am

    and ‘two wongs don’t make a white’ is who labour are so eager to coalesce with..

    ..eh..?

    ..nothing wrong with that picture..?

    • Bearded Git 5.1
      11 August 2014 at 10:22 am

      He’s a prat. Just got to hope that Labour/Green/IMP can swing 49%.

    • bad12 5.2
      11 August 2014 at 5:52 pm

      i dunno about that happy coalition Phillip, the free doctors for over 65’s policy from Labour while maybe not a deliberate attempt to push NZFirst out the back door will to a small but certain extent go a little way to doing so…

  6. Tom Davidson 6
    11 August 2014 at 7:45 am

    I listened to the radio interview on the weekend about option for tax reform. Sounded all quite sensible. Of course the National Party and Act know there is more than one way to redistribute wealth — you have to get a r_e_a_l_l_y big pile to get that trickle down working…
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Im-relaxed/906405082708477

  7. philj 7
    11 August 2014 at 7:48 am

    xox
    “Christie a journalist” ? Is that an oxymoron, or maybe just a moron!

  8. amirite 8
    11 August 2014 at 7:55 am

    Some are profiting from disaster by renting Christchurch residents out of existence. Kicking tenants out so they can renovate and charge more. Maserati and other luxury cars sales on the rise. Fewer people live in houses in deprived areas – probably because they have moved to living their cars, or worse, under bridges or park benches.
    Sad, sad situation.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/10369161/Rise-of-wealthy-changes-Christchurch

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      11 August 2014 at 10:35 am

      It’s all going swimmingly Amirite; the Speaker’s brother has got a contract to build a $284 million convention centre….

  9. The Lone Haranguer 9
    11 August 2014 at 9:00 am

    And some are earning their money in Christchurch doing the rebuilding of the city.

    Possibly a “once in a lifetime” opportunity for qualified tradies to set up in business knowing that theres enough work in front of them to justify the risk of going into business.

    Or for some qualified tradies to get $35 per hour swinging a paintbrush working for wages.

    It is wrong to suggest that everyone making the big money in Christchurch at the moment is a rip off artist. Theres way more than 10 years work ahead of the City, so theres still time to get a building trade and join the goldrush.

    • minarch 9.1
      11 August 2014 at 11:16 am

      “join the goldrush”

      pretty much sums up your attitude doesnt it …

      • The Lone Haranguer 9.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 12:08 pm

        Yes it does. Its an opportunity for some folk in the trades to earn better wages than they would get elsewhere. Which I thought was a goal of the labour movement…..

        The $35 hr paintbrush swinger I quoted was on $18 hr before he came down here. So he made some decent money, cleared his bills and eventually went home for the lifestyle choice.

        And really when you have choices – choices of where to work and what to earn, then life is pretty good.

        The implication that everyone making $$ from the quake repairs are somehow ripping off little old ladies and becoming slumlords is tiresome and incorrect.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 1:51 pm

          Its an opportunity for some folk in the trades to earn better wages than they would get elsewhere.

          A few of my family are in the building industry and they’ve looked at going to Christchurch to help out. The reason why they haven’t is because they’d be worse off.

        • Puddleglum 9.1.1.2
          11 August 2014 at 6:00 pm

          Yes, there’s money to be made alright.

          I walk my dog in my neighbourhood each evening. It’s a central city low income area. There used to be a man who also walked his dog who had lived in a rental – up the street a bit – for the last 13 years.

          But, then he had to leave because the landlord wanted to renovate and rent out the house to short term tenants (e.g., those having their own homes repaired) who would pay (or whose insurance would pay) very high rentals. He simply couldn’t compete with that. He had to go into a much smaller, more ‘modest’ bedsit.

          Quite a bit of that has been happening in my area.

          By contrast, I have good friends who lived in a three bedroom house they are now renting out for $6,000 per month on short leases (no more than six weeks) and which is booked until next March (having already been tenanted continuously for almost a year). In the meantime, they have renovated and are living in a house bought from the ‘uninsured’ stock for very little, have bought another uninsured house (4 bedrooms) nearby that they hope to rent out for a similar amount to their original home.

          It’s not about ‘evil people’ it’s about structural inequalities produced directly as a result of how the government is allowing the housing situation in Christchurch to ‘sort itself out’.

          To those who already had, more is being given; to those who had little, even what they had has been taken away.

  10. Penny Bright 10
    11 August 2014 at 9:31 am

    “When your rights are under attack – STAND UP! FIGHT BACK! ”

    Candidate allowed on stage after threat

    Veteran political activist allowed to speak next to John Key and Laila Harre tonight after legal action threatened.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10369010/Legal-action-threat-gets-candidate-on-to-stage

    I wasn’t bluffing. Graham McCready was all set to help me put an injunction together, to ‘do a Colin Craig’ if I wasn’t given the same opportunity to address the voting public as was being given to candidates ‘attached’ to political parties.

    I’m REALLY pleased that is no longer necessary.

    Looking forward to tonight! It’s going to be FUN!

    ‘Her Warship’

    PS: What the Fairfax reporter failed to mention was that last year, in the 2013 Auckland Mayoralty ‘race’ – I polled 4th with 11,723 votes.

    The Helensville electorate sits within the Auckland Supercity (Super RIPOFF) boundaries, so I’ve been arguably working in the interests of the 99% of Helensville voters, in opposing this forced amalgamation literally since Day One.

    • mickysavage 10.1
      11 August 2014 at 9:56 am

      Congratulations Penny.

    • Tiger Mountain 10.2
      11 August 2014 at 9:59 am

      Good result for Penny, the sniffy tone of organiser Holly Ryan had to be read to be believed.
      Various ads and comments have been altered and or removed over the past few days including from the Baptist Church fb. There was no legitimate basis for not allowing Penny to attend.
      Time: 6pm tonight
      Venue: 21 Access Rd, off H16 just before Huapai
      Come along and support the left candidates.

    • Rosie 10.3
      11 August 2014 at 10:52 am

      Good on you Penny. Give ’em heaps, if uppity Holly Ryan lets you.

      Hey, I wonder if there will be any mention of this local issue for Huapai:

      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03082014/#comment-859992

      Something about a chunk of Huapai land being sold for $55 mil to a Chinese Government development group whose interests include “toll roads”…………

    • veutoviper 10.4
      11 August 2014 at 1:34 pm

      Well done, Penny. Wish it was being live streamed so people outside Auckland like myself could watch!

  11. Rosie 11
    11 August 2014 at 9:55 am

    From Ohariu Labour candidate, Ginny Andersen’s fb page,

    https://www.facebook.com/virginia.andersen.ohariu

    an invitation to a talk by David Shearer on Gaza, 1pm at the Khandallah town hall for any interested persons in that area at that time: I think I’ll head along and see what he has to say.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/673980682680041/?ref=22

  12. ScottGN 12
    11 August 2014 at 10:09 am

    Somebody needs to ask Gerry Brownlee why it is that NZTA no longer seems to have enough funding for winter road maintenance. For the first time since I moved south SH 6 was closed overnight (Kingston to Lumsden) during last weeks cold snap for nothing more than ice on the road (we expect closures due to snow most winters). Apparently there is not enough money for the regular grading and gritting that is required in winter. All at the same time we’re being bribed with the Kawerau Falls Bridge project that has abysmally failed cost-benefit analysis.

  13. Bearded Git 13
    11 August 2014 at 10:12 am

    Key sounds like an idiot on Epsom and whinging, arrogant, lying and bored when commenting on the election launches of NZF and Labour here:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20145180/john-key-could-make-another-epsom-gesture

  14. Weepus beard 14
    11 August 2014 at 11:42 am

    Jaysus.

    Seymour channelling Mandela, and the bag of flour resigns amidst concern Epsom voters are too independent.

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/24675345/act-compares-pakeha-struggles-to-apartheid/

    • Rosie 14.1
      11 August 2014 at 2:50 pm

      OMG. That is a face palm of such ginormous proportions that one’s face would fall through ones hands and land on the keyboard, to be branded with key marks for a whole week. (Mihingarangi Forbes probably felt this way when she interviewed head Klan guy, Whyte, last week, especially when he denied any knowledge of Whanau Ora)

      The absurdity and ignorance is stunning. Occasionally you hear crazy shit like this from regular boofheads, you don’t expect it from politicians, even ACT ones. (Well actually you do, sadly they are predictable like that)

      Can someone please do us all a favour and accompany Whyte, Seymour and Co on a library outing and direct them to the NZ history section so they can have a wee read on The Treaty and our colonial history?

  15. Tiger Mountain 15
    11 August 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Gosman or other RWNJ annoying you? Or if your own writing doesn’t quite seem to quite hit the spot sometimes–try this easy graphic guide to 24 common logical fallacies. e.g. ‘Strawman’, True Scotsman’, ‘burden of proof’, ‘the Texas sharpshooter’, ‘composition/division’ etc.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1
      11 August 2014 at 2:45 pm

      See this one a lot from the RWNJs. Usually in the form of But John Key is so popular and Cunliffe isn’t with the implication that that popularity proves them right.

      And this is the one that economists use as the basis for their economic hypothesis.

  16. Pascals bookie 16
    11 August 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Dunno if this has been mentioned yet, but saw on twitter last night that invites have gone out to a Nicky Hager book launch this Wednesday.

    The invite makes no mention of the title or subject, all a bit secret squirrelly really.

  17. adam 17
    11 August 2014 at 1:53 pm

    Been meaning to put this link up for a couple of days.

    A very important question. How did the first world war end?

    And a very fine read.

    https://libcom.org/history/how-did-first-world-war-actually-end-paul-mason

  18. adam 18
    11 August 2014 at 1:58 pm

    One question for people who live out west Auckland.

    I was driving around over the weekend all over the west, and saw heaps of billboards. Indeed, it appeared at every point their were a collection of these billboards, at least two were for nation. Except were labour had put up two, then there seemed to be four for national.

    So silly question? Is there a limit on election spending in a area? Because my guess, and it only a ruff guess – national has spent tens of thousands of dollars on billboards in west Auckland alone.

    • crocodill 18.1
      11 August 2014 at 2:27 pm

      I haven’t stopped to actually count them, but there are visually more Nat signs than any other. In my corner of the West they’re often on private fences. Only seen one Labour sign on a private fence. Reason? My guess is working class aspiration meets a particular culture. On the other hand, someone went on a rampage last week and took out all the signs along Lincoln road on the corner near the netball courts. Good job that person – acted without prejudice or restraint.

      • bad12 18.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 5:29 pm

        From the Rongotai electorate, the signage i have seen is pretty much even, 3 National V 2 Labour, where there are clusters most parties seem to be represented,

        2 of National’s have so far been ‘altered’ and i have seen 1 Green Party billboard up on a private property, that’s pretty much the main drag out here covered,

        i do not need a billboard, a Mana tee-shirt hanging in the front window is enough to give everyone in the street the message…

    • Tracey 18.2
      11 August 2014 at 2:44 pm

      it forms part of their election spending cap so if they spend big there they cut back somewhere else.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.3
      11 August 2014 at 3:25 pm

      Can’t say that I’ve noticed that. Must be travelling on different roads than you.

      And, yes, there are limits to the advertising spend per electorate.

  19. Bob 19
    11 August 2014 at 2:04 pm

    Never thought I would say this, but congrats to David Cunliffe and Labour on releasing a coherent, sensible, well targeted, well thought out policy in their latest health policy. Huge upside with very little downside (cost would be mostly re-couped in lower hospitalisation rates).
    It targets the vulnerable based on risk of disease rather than income, now if only they could take that thinking forward…..

  20. Matthew Hooton 20
    11 August 2014 at 2:16 pm

    What do we all think about Labour Party candidates using the word “Shylock” to describe the Prime Minister?

    • Enough is Enough 20.1
      11 August 2014 at 2:22 pm

      Drum roll please….here comes the faux outrage.

      • Once was Pete 20.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 4:30 pm

        There is nothing ‘faux’ about blatant racism. And there is nothing acceptable about anti semitism. Full stop!

        • lurgee 20.1.1.1
          14 August 2014 at 6:51 pm

          Yes, shocking. How dare people refer to Shakespeare?

          I’d say ‘Shylock’ is so commonplace and Key’s Jewish ancestry so not well known that the remark was probably carried no evil intent.

          But it shows how simply a few nasty yobs behaving rudely can make everything appear tainted with wickedness.

    • Tracey 20.2
      11 August 2014 at 2:25 pm

      I am waiting for you to announce that mr whyte racism is reminding you of nazi rallys in 1920 and tweeting it madly and to journalists

      • karol 20.2.1
        11 August 2014 at 2:31 pm

        It’s becoming an election of (faux?) racist outrage.

        Still waiting for National’s policies.

        Shylock is not a term I’d used to disparage someone.

        I don’t support political stirring about (alleged) Maori privilege.

        Peter’s non- joke is weak an racist.

        The IMP video was no more like a Nuremberg rally than many rock concerts and their videos – such things have become pretty much accepted and the norm.

        Now, about National’s policies.

        • Tracey 20.2.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 2:42 pm

          dont hold your breath.

          Shylock

          Although critics tend to agree that Shylock is The Merchant of Venice’s most noteworthy figure, no consensus has been reached on whether to read him as a bloodthirsty bogeyman, a clownish Jewish stereotype, or a tragic figure whose sense of decency has been fractured by the persecution he endures. Certainly, Shylock is the play’s antagonist, and he is menacing enough to seriously imperil the happiness of Venice’s businessmen and young lovers alike. Shylock is also, however, a creation of circumstance; even in his single-minded pursuit of a pound of flesh, his frequent mentions of the cruelty he has endured at Christian hands make it hard for us to label him a natural born monster. In one of Shakespeare’s most famous monologues, for example, Shylock argues that Jews are humans and calls his quest for vengeance the product of lessons taught to him by the cruelty of Venetian citizens. On the other hand, Shylock’s coldly calculated attempt to revenge the wrongs done to him by murdering his persecutor, Antonio, prevents us from viewing him in a primarily positive light. Shakespeare gives us unmistakably human moments, but he often steers us against Shylock as well, painting him as a miserly, cruel, and prosaic figure.

          • Once was Pete 20.2.1.1.2
            11 August 2014 at 4:37 pm

            Shylock is also a derogatory term used against Jewish people to insinuate they are part of some evil world financial conspiracy. If you don’t think that is what the Labour candidate for Timaru meant you are fooling yourself. I note that candidate has been silent on the subject, so he doesn’t appear to be resiling from his hateful comment.

            • lurgee 20.2.1.1.2.1
              14 August 2014 at 6:56 pm

              Key has a background in finance, however, so a ‘Shylock’ reference doesn’t necessarily imply the utterer is referring to his Jewish background. Though it was unfortunate. And very typical of this blunder prone Labour party.

              Thank God we’ve got Nicky Hager, who managed to accomplish more in the last 20 hours than Labour have in the last 20 months.

        • Once was Pete 20.2.1.2
          11 August 2014 at 4:33 pm

          Agree about Peters and the general tone creeping into the election, but can’t agree about IMP. The norm? I don’t think so, and not in this country.

          • karol 20.2.1.2.1
            11 August 2014 at 4:38 pm

            Many of the kinds of propaganda techniques that Goebbels explored during the 3rd Reich, have pervaded society international – various kinds of manipulation of the masses, including cords. They have been normalised.

            Ever been to a rock/punk concert? Back in my day – plenty of crowd chants against the government of the day using expletives.

    • Tracey 20.3
      11 August 2014 at 2:26 pm

      are you happier with Liar in Chief?

    • weka 20.4
      11 August 2014 at 2:26 pm

      who said that Matthew?

      • Matthew Hooton 20.4.1
        11 August 2014 at 2:30 pm

        Steve Gibson, Labour’s Rangitata candidate (although presumably about to be replaced).

        • Tracey 20.4.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 2:39 pm

          as someone who recently compared a imp gathering to a nazi gathering in the 20s, what do you think k?

      • Tracey 20.4.2
        11 August 2014 at 2:33 pm

        bryan vould once wrote

        ” The bouquets, of course, are welcome and enjoyable when they come, but the brickbats – and they can come thick and fast – can hurt. Politicians, like Shylock, bleed like anyone else. ”

        slater is rabidly typing his admonishment….and farrar is close to hospitalisation, so affronted are they by whatever was said by someone unheard of.

        • weka 20.4.2.1
          11 August 2014 at 3:12 pm

          tactical. Look at the date of the FB post. They’ve been saving this one up. Pathetic really, and this is the worst they can come up with.

    • Weepus beard 20.5
      11 August 2014 at 2:27 pm

      I think shyster is more accurate.

      • weka 20.5.1
        11 August 2014 at 3:15 pm

        probably, but still unadvisable for a Labour party candidate to say such a thing on FB the month before a general election.

        • Weepus beard 20.5.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 3:24 pm

          Agreed. No matter how apt the description is, it clearly departs from the Vote Positive message and I’m sure he’s being told that right now.

          • Tracey 20.5.1.1.1
            11 August 2014 at 3:55 pm

            stand him down. it will make cunliffe look like he is standing by being positive a highlights keys nastiness and inaction

            • McFlock 20.5.1.1.1.1
              11 August 2014 at 4:05 pm

              IMO, an honest public apology and so on would be more appropriate – and rub home genuine accountability in Labour, rather than brownlee’s pretend resignation.

        • Ant 20.5.1.2
          11 August 2014 at 6:05 pm

          It’s obviously racist, what a twit.

      • Once was Pete 20.5.2
        11 August 2014 at 4:39 pm

        You really are a dipstick to join in on this hate crap.

      • minarch 20.5.3
        11 August 2014 at 5:02 pm

        i would have gone with S@*thead….

    • adam 20.6
      11 August 2014 at 2:28 pm

      I always liked the Merchant of Venice. But not really accurate of FJK is it, as he keeps borrowing money, rather than lending it.

    • Stephanie Rodgers 20.7
      11 August 2014 at 2:30 pm

      It’s nasty and clearly anti-Semitic mud-slinging, and Gibson should face exactly the same consequences as the kind of people who compare their opponents to Nazis and sugar daddies.

      • Tracey 20.7.1
        11 August 2014 at 2:37 pm

        touche

      • Clemgeopin 20.7.2
        11 August 2014 at 6:50 pm

        Yep, Key should be replaced immediately!….[and then prosecuted for a variety of his statements and deeds] Being an honest and fair person, I expect that Matthew Hooton will lead the charge in his umpteen media ‘expert’ commentaries.

    • crocodill 20.8
      11 August 2014 at 2:35 pm

      What do I think? They should probably update their ethno-religious slurs. I’d prefer kike, to shylock, has a clear ring to it. With kike, you can shout it over the top of other people yelling about wops, dinks, chinks, muzzies, fuzzie-wuzzies, rugs, and sugar-daddy Krauts and still be heard clearly. Of course, nothing like that has happened since 1956, but we can dream.

    • Anne 20.9
      11 August 2014 at 2:58 pm

      What do we all think about Labour Party candidates using the word “Shylock” to describe the Prime Minister?

      I dunno:

      Some might say its an apt description of his former wheeler/dealer background.

      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shylock

      • Stephanie Rodgers 20.9.1
        11 August 2014 at 3:11 pm

        That really doesn’t improve the situation, Anne. The whole reason “Shylock” has become a slang term for “cruel moneylender” and the like is because of the historic situation in which European moneylenders were predominantly Jewish. At its core it’s an anti-Semitic term, and it’s prejudice is only reinforced by the fact that Key is both of Jewish heritage and from a financial background.

        • Anne 20.9.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 7:11 pm

          What some of you fail to recognise is that the candidate who made the comment in the first place (and many other individuals who have made similar comments from time to time) are invariably unaware of the historical context of the word “Shylock”. Call it ignorance if you like, but more often than not they are doing so under the impression it simply refers to a dishonest money trader. Their lack of knowledge of literature and history is such, they have little to no idea of the Jewish link.

          The candidate in question has apologised profusely for his error and has admitted he didn’t know the back-ground to the saying and how offensive it would be to many people.

          Just give a little folks…

        • lurgee 20.9.1.2
          14 August 2014 at 7:05 pm

          You’re missing the point. The term has several levels of connotation and gibson is only being anti-Semitic if he intended to use it that way. If he didn’t, he’s just being stupid. Shylock isn’t quite like nigger, which comes front-loaded with its hateful meanings. Gibson could easily have been using without intending to bring in the whole history of the Jews. It might have been, as Anne said, a reference to Key’s background in finance, without Key’s Jewish parentage being on the rather shallow mind of Mr Gibson.

          That might require a fair degree of ignorance about the play, but cultural imbecility isn’t that uncommon among those prone to muttering insults on face book.

      • Once was Pete 20.9.2
        11 August 2014 at 4:41 pm

        Personally, I find this comment incredibly distasteful, and quite cretinous!

        • Anne 20.9.2.1
          11 August 2014 at 6:59 pm

          Given you record of faulty logic on numerous occasions, what you ‘find’ is of no consequence to me.

        • phillip ure 20.9.2.2
          11 August 2014 at 8:59 pm

          how do you feel about outright lying there..pete..?

          ..like key on breakfast tv this morn claiming the effigy-burning vid had been posted by internet/mana..?

          ..and under their name..?

          ..every word a total lie..

          ..and words that are clearly ‘cretinous’…

          ..but how ‘distasteful’ do you find such blatant/casual lying by the prime minister..?

          ..there..pete..?

        • Halfcrown 20.9.2.3
          11 August 2014 at 10:11 pm

          “Personally, I find this comment incredibly distasteful, and quite cretinous!”

          Yeah, funny that, as I found Key’s throat slitting gesture in the house incredibly distasteful, and quite cretinous

    • weka 20.10
      11 August 2014 at 3:02 pm

      Unfortunately the only link I can find is to KB

      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/labour_party_candidate_calls_john_key_shylock.html

      I see the date on that is the 28th July. Been saving this one up for the Monday after the Labour Party election campaign launch Matthew?

      On the face of it, Gibson is an arse and should be held to account. I asked the question elsewhere today about why Labour allow their MPs and candidates to do shit like this. Not for the first time I think Labour MPs/candidates need minders for their FB and twitter accounts.

      • Enough is Enough 20.10.1
        11 August 2014 at 3:29 pm

        Following that link, what does your “Yep…” comment on twitter mean Mickey Savage?

      • Tracey 20.10.2
        11 August 2014 at 3:41 pm

        ditto

        have you found matties public comparison of whytes repeated inciting of racial division to 1920s nazi germany. have googled but cant find it.

    • tricledrown 20.11
      11 August 2014 at 3:07 pm

      Nickey Hager and KDC got you in a spin their mad hater!

    • bad12 20.12
      11 August 2014 at 5:42 pm

      Wee Matty, i prefer the term Shyster when addressing Slippery the Prime Minister,

      Shylock according to my Book of Words, refers to a heartless or demanding lender,

      Whereas Shyster according to the same good book refers to a Lawyer or Politician who uses discreditable or unethical methods,

      Hence the PM seems in my opinion to fit the epithets of Slippery little Shyster to a T…

    • Populuxe1 20.13
      11 August 2014 at 6:38 pm

      Oh come now Matthew, surely you realise that by now that if anyone of the left says anything racist, sexist or homophobic (and IMP provides this in spades) it’s intellectualised around. Winston gets written off entirely for something offensive but relatively light weight.
      Look around you – people lose their nana when Whyte calls Dame Susan of Squash a drunk, but when Minto makes jokes about Winston’s liver no one batters an eyelid.
      Hypocrisy makes the world go round.

    • RedbaronCV 20.14
      11 August 2014 at 9:23 pm

      While I don’t intend to repeat it here, remember the ACT party member who described JohnKey in such a way that his membership was cancelled? This appears to be a problem with the far right.

    • Puddleglum 20.15
      11 August 2014 at 9:24 pm

      “What do we all think …”

      Presumably you have some idea of what you, in particular, think so you could partially answer your own question.

      “candidates“?

      Plural?

      As for me, I see the word ‘Shylock’ as similar to the term ‘sugar daddy’. Both leverage off an original meaning that is offensive.

      The main difference I see in the two episodes is that one was uttered by someone who is a candidate for office. The other was uttered by someone who has been Prime Minister for six years.

      And what do you think, Matthew, about a Prime Minister who uses the term ‘sugar daddy’?

    • meconism 20.16
      11 August 2014 at 10:54 pm

      I don’t know but this might help: After A.R.D. Fairburn, the poet, had re-boarded the train to Auckland after a comfort stop at Mercer, the NZR steward asked him if everything was to his satisfaction his response was,

      “This squalid tea of Mercer is not strained”

  21. fisiani 21
    11 August 2014 at 3:07 pm

    Steve Gibson calling John Key Shylock means that he has to be delisted as the Labour candidate ASAP. Failure to do so means that Labour endorse Anti-Semitic Jew hating language.

    • Weepus beard 21.1
      11 August 2014 at 3:20 pm

      Nonsense. It’s a throw away word, like sugar daddy, apparently.

    • Te Reo Putake 21.2
      11 August 2014 at 3:20 pm

      I’m sure you also agree that the National candidate who called Laila Harre a whore and Kim Dotcom a pimp should also resign. But I appeared to have missed the comment where you said so.

      • Peter Matthews 21.2.1
        11 August 2014 at 3:53 pm

        Please provide a link to where a National party candidate has called Laila Harre a “whore” and Dotcom a “pimp”

        • Tracey 21.2.1.1
          11 August 2014 at 3:57 pm

          I believe he is referring to mr key saying lailla harre was getting dotcoms money in return for sex.

          Prime Minister John Key doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with referring to Kim Dotcom as Internet Party leader Laila Harre’s “sugar daddy”.

          Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/John-Key-stands-by-sugar-daddy-comment/tabid/1607/articleID/355757/Default.aspx#ixzz3A3LZHl4P

          • Peter Matthews 21.2.1.1.1
            11 August 2014 at 4:43 pm

            I’m well aware of the sugar daddy comment, I’m looking for proof of the claim of a “National candidate who called Laila Harre a whore and Kim Dotcom a pimp”.

            On a side note, it is my understanding that a “whore” does not have sex with their “pimp”

            • McFlock 21.2.1.1.1.1
              11 August 2014 at 4:54 pm

              On a side note, it is my understanding that a “whore” does not have sex with their “pimp”

              Indeed, because that would be ethically dubious given the power relationships involved /sarc

          • Once was Pete 21.2.1.1.2
            11 August 2014 at 4:45 pm

            Complete rubbish! There was no reference to or insinuation that Harre was getting money for sex with Dotcom. Sugar daddy has a wider implication than sex for favours.

            • karol 21.2.1.1.2.1
              11 August 2014 at 4:48 pm

              And the word shylock has nothing to do with Jewish people. /sarc

              • Once was Pete …
                11 August 2014 at 5:14 pm

                Lets stick with apples and apples shall we? Conflating two separate subjects has confused you. Either that, or you are being deliberately obtuse. Of course the word Shylock has something to do with Jewish people. It is one of the more racist and derogatory terms that could be used. Best not to even joke about it. best not to use it in a political campaign, and best to distance yourself from it when a colleague does use it.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  11 August 2014 at 5:19 pm

                  By your rules the National candidate who called Laila Harre a whore has to resign, and your silence on the subject speaks volumes.

                  Raise the double standard.

                  • john …
                    11 August 2014 at 11:30 pm

                    Someone who has been with five different political parties isn’t necessarily a whore.

                    Someone who campaigns for women’s rights, but takes loads of money from someone who runs porn sites, and makes jokes about rape and killing prostitutes isn’t a whore – well perhaps she is, but not necessarily in a sexual way.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 August 2014 at 11:36 pm

                      you’re too slow for the party in so many ways, john…

                    • john …
                      12 August 2014 at 12:08 am

                      Harre’s fake outrage and offense is so transparent – she took a job being the mouthpiece for someone who makes money by trading porn and ripping people off.

                      Few things will push moderate voters to the right like Dotcom, except perhaps the addition of Hone (I don’t want my daughter dating a pakeha) Harawira, and John Minto

                    • McFlock …
                      12 August 2014 at 12:12 am

                      thanks for your concern, john.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      14 August 2014 at 7:23 pm

                      That’s some lovely partisan hyperbole you’ve got there John. I especially admire the way it reveals the depths of misogyny you’re prepared to explore for your #team.

                      The revelations about your #team are coming thick and fast just now. Is this the right time for you to be embracing them so overtly?

                • McFlock …
                  11 August 2014 at 5:41 pm

                  It is one of the more racist and derogatory terms that could be used. Best not to even joke about it.

                  oh, fucking bullshit. Enough with the faux moral outrage.

                  The BSA has NO decisions relating to the use of the word “shylock”, even though it’s not entirely unfamiliar to pop culture. Yes, in some contexts it can be offensive, but it’s not exactly in the territory of, say, the N-word.

                  heh – tories feigning liberal moral outrage suggests another extract might be appropriate:

                  The devil can cite scripture for his purpose.
                  An evil soul producing holy witness,
                  Is like a villain with a smiling cheek;
                  A goodly apple rotten at the heart:
                  O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!

                • lurgee …
                  14 August 2014 at 7:10 pm

                  If you think Shylock is the “one of the more racist and derogatory” things a Jew can be called, you’ve lived a very sheltered life.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    14 August 2014 at 7:12 pm

                    When your argument rests on the finer points of bigotry you know you’re onto a winner. No, wait…

            • McFlock 21.2.1.1.2.2
              11 August 2014 at 4:48 pm

              Really? Then there’s more to “Shylock” than just the racist implication.

              snap karol 🙂

            • Te Reo Putake 21.2.1.1.2.3
              11 August 2014 at 5:21 pm

              What are the ‘wider implications’ Pete? Please supply any citations that suggest anything other than a sexual and financial arrangement. Take your time, I know it’s a big ask.

              • JanMeyer …
                11 August 2014 at 9:48 pm

                Took me 30 seconds to find this (Merriam-Webster):

                SUGAR DADDY
                a rich, older man who gives money, gifts, etc., to someone (such as a young woman) in exchange for sex, friendship, etc.
                She’s on the lookout for a new sugar daddy.
                — sometimes used figuratively in U.S. English
                politicians getting money from their corporate sugar daddies

                Sorry, but as hard as I tried, couldn’t find any evidence of ‘figurative’ usage for ‘Shylock’.

                  • JanMeyer …
                    11 August 2014 at 11:05 pm

                    I’ve established the (obvious) point that ‘sugar daddy’ can be used figuratively. The term ‘Shylock’ is quite different – it just can’t be used (in any sense) by aspiring politicians (unless they wish to be accused of being anti semitic, or completely stupid). I think Gibson falls in to the second category for what it’s worth.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 August 2014 at 11:18 pm

                      so now I’ve presented a full hollywood scene that has “shylock” used figuratively (not the only one, either), you shift the goalposts to politicians only.

                      super.

                  • Te Reo Putake …
                    11 August 2014 at 11:07 pm

                    “Sorry, but as hard as I tried, couldn’t find any evidence of ‘figurative’ usage for ‘Shylock’.”

                    I think you’ll find the first figurative use of Shylock would be a in a play called ‘The Merchant of Venice’, by William Shakespeare.

                    “I’ve established the (obvious) point that ‘sugar daddy’ can be used figuratively.”

                    You didn’t ‘establish’ that. We already knew it. There is no Chelsea style sugar involved, so the phrase is a metaphor for an exploitative sexual relationship. What you established was that if you dig deep enough in google, an unlikely alternative explanation can be found. Not that it helps the sleazy Key.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 August 2014 at 11:33 pm

                      lol
                      that might be because the grown-up M-W dictionary has two definitions – one shakespearian and the other ” : to lend money at high rates of interest <exposé of systematic thievery…shylocking, and murder — Current Biography> ”

                      wiktionary has the character as etymology, and also an interesting quote from a politician:

                      Verb

                      shylock (third-person singular simple present shylocks, present participle shylocking, simple past and past participle shylocked)

                      (intransitive, US) To lend money at exorbitant rates of interest.  [quotations ▲]
                      2004 December 8, Kenya National Assembly Official Record (Hansard), page 4928,

                      I wanted to know whether shylocking is a legal business or not, and if it is legal, under which Act does it operate?

                      I guess the goalposts will move again…

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  11 August 2014 at 10:56 pm

                  Weirdly, that quote isn’t from the dinkum Merriam-Webster dictionary but from something they like to call the ‘learners dictionary’. Something you want to tell us, janmeyer? And it’s well hidden in the search results, so well done on finding it just 30 seconds.

                  http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/sugar%20daddy

                  Even that alternative usage doesn’t fit the circumstances. Nah, Key meant it in the way Wikipedia calls it:

                  “Sugar daddy is a slang term for a man who offers to support a typically younger woman or man after establishing a relationship that is usually sexual.”

                  Wonder if he thinks of Bronagh in the same way?

                  • JanMeyer …
                    11 August 2014 at 11:26 pm

                    Sorry – correction to previous comment (I’m new around here): precedent for figurative usage of term sugar daddy is from ‘Merriam-Webster Learners Dictionary’ and not ‘dinkum Merriam-Webster dictionary’.

                    I preferred you putting the boot in to IMP the other day TRP!

                    • North …
                      12 August 2014 at 8:47 pm

                      Be great if those screaming re the stupid, clumsy, and I agree objectionable resort to the word “Shylock” could be relied upon to express such outrage about the hundreds of dead children of Gaza. Now and in previous shooting fish in a barrel expeditions. Oh well……that’s Exceptionalism for ya.

                      I subscribe to the world view of Norman Finklestein – charges of anti-semitism frequently amount to moral initimidation to conceal a moral bankruptcy in the accuser. Send your outrage to Santa Claus.

                      The cheapness of it is immeasurably more disgraceful for the fact that it’s invoked essentially in furtherance of something as utterly trivial as John Key’s electoral fortunes.

                      Fukn soul-less hypocrites !

            • phillip ure 21.2.1.1.2.4
              11 August 2014 at 9:06 pm

              @ pete..and what exactly are those other meanings’ for sugar daddy..?

              ..that you claim..?

              ..the only one i cd find is ‘a caramel lollipop’..

              ..and i don’t think key meant that..do you..?

  22. tricledrown 22
    11 August 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Fishy your spin is getting desperate !

  23. Tiger Mountain 23
    11 August 2014 at 3:40 pm

    GCSB march well before formation of IMP, they seem to be telling someone called “Key” to f**k off…

    • felix 23.1
      11 August 2014 at 6:47 pm

      Nonsense.

      IMP are the only people in NZ who can’t stand that fucking prick John Key and they’re the only people who swear about it.

    • Pascals bookie 23.2
      11 August 2014 at 7:13 pm

      Damn Naz1s, protesting about spies like the traitors they are.

      [lprent: I was thinking godwin. But it fitted in the context. ]

  24. northshoredoc 24
    11 August 2014 at 4:06 pm

    Can all readers and lurkers in Northland check their family’s vaccinations are up to date so we can quash the latest Measles outbreak.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1408/S00044/further-cases-of-measles-in-northland.htm

  25. Weepus beard 25
    11 August 2014 at 5:19 pm

    There has been a lot of comment and some evidence that this election is shaping up to be more bitter than any other. I’m old enough to have voted in 10 elections but must admit haven’t paid too much attention to the fight before now. If any political leader stood out as truly caustic and divisive post Muldoon it’s really just Bob Jones and maybe at times, Hone Harawera. No-one can compete with Bob Jones though for his sheer disregard for fellow humankind.

    The right wing hate speech merchants pick up on the bitterness and vandalism in the lead up to this election as evidence that the opposition are increasingly immoral, anti-Semitic, and lead around by the nose by a Nazi sympathiser. They do this to create easily digestible media sound bites for their community intolerant conservative friends.

    However, while I think the opposition are indeed desperate I believe the fault of the break from civilised difference and debate can be laid squarely at the feet of the current Prime Minister John Key and the culture of deceit and divisiveness not seen since the 3rd and 4th National Governments.

    Whether John Key has deliberately divided this country at the behest of his Australian PR company, or whether that division has arisen from the relentless series of divisional policies is still up for debate, but what is certain is the he is responsible for the mean tone and split in the country right now.

    • Weepus beard 25.1
      11 August 2014 at 9:21 pm

      https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/24686172/election-campaign-getting-ugly/

      I mean this is a headline in a major web based news site in NZ. It quotes National party klingon, Clare Robinson with her delicate sensibilities and appalling research abilities, attributing the passion of this campaign to the number of parties involved.

      That’s it.

      That’s the view of a Massey University professor with links to the National party. Nothing to do with the culture of hate, disrespect, dismissiveness, and divisiveness that the National government has fostered under the reign of John Key?

      How about for once a political marketing expert actually does some sort of academic research into the many reasons why this campaign is at flashpoint compared to the norm in this country, instead of weakly saying, “it’s because there are too many parties”.

  26. millsy 26
    11 August 2014 at 6:12 pm

    Once was Pete. I would like to know your opinion of WhaleOils blog and if you think his demonization of the most vulnerable over the past decade is justified.

  27. bad12 27
    11 August 2014 at 6:40 pm

    National MP’s are being quoted in the news ‘whining’ about damage to their billboards while all the other parties messages remain largely untouched,

    i well remember last election as i drove through ‘the gap’ into the local electorate i came across a couple of young lads gleefully and effectively turning a National Party billboard into matchwood in broad daylight,

    Being a concerned citizen i immediately leapt from the car with the intent of making a citizens arrest, ok ok i am of course bullshitting you all,

    Coming across that scene last election i did the only thing possible, quietly bringing my ride to a safe stop and then indulging myself in an elongated burst of mad laughter,

    The youths concerned totally oblivious to the small audience they had attracted simply finished their ‘electoral project’ and sauntered off nonchalantly up the road imitating those of us who had stopped to watch their efforts laughing fit to bust…

    • fisiani 27.1
      11 August 2014 at 6:55 pm

      Your glee at criminal damage to private property shows the typical Left belief that the end always justifies the means. It does not. The orchestrated cowardly anti-democratic attacks show the impotence of the Left. You do not understand how often National get a call from people to offer their property for a hoarding when they see vandalism. It also indicates how much we are on the right track.

      • bad12 27.1.1
        11 August 2014 at 9:01 pm

        Offering the property around these parts Fisiani i would not think a very wise thing to do, the gusto with which the two youths i previously described took to their ‘work’ last election would tend to suggest that any part of the property such billboards were attached to would be in danger of suffering the same damage as the National Party message does around here…

      • tricledrown 27.1.2
        11 August 2014 at 11:32 pm

        Fuzzyanil hey sheepshagger So so-cold respectable upper middle class National supporters wrecking Left wing hoardings are not ready to take responsibility and are a superior type of vandal with their better education and circumstances!

    • felix 27.2
      11 August 2014 at 6:56 pm

      lolz yeah it’s pretty sad when the govt mps are complaining about how strongly they are disliked.

  28. felix 28
    11 August 2014 at 7:22 pm

    Lemme get this straight: Key gets called a word that apparently refers to someone who is both jewish and a banker…

    …and offense is taken at the jewish bit?

    Jeez it must be weird out there on the right.

    • McFlock 28.1
      11 August 2014 at 7:54 pm

      lol meanwhile the tories are certain that dunnokeyo used “sugardaddy” in a hitherto unknown sense that does not involve sex for cash.

  29. Tiger Mountain 29
    11 August 2014 at 7:59 pm

    Helensville ‘Lockdown’ candidate meeting packed out, sizable crowd outside basically turned away including me, Bomber Bradbury and various others. Reps there from New Lynn Labour LEC, Greens, Māori Party, IMP and various issue based signs. Some stayed on with the media cops and drivers.

    Mouthy local Nats, got a few “fuck offs” in when Key entered, Laila Harre´got good reception.

  30. vto 30
    11 August 2014 at 8:21 pm

    Well I’ll be darned… if we aint got one of them forks in the road for ourselves in these lands.

    Ever since them students lit the tinderbox last week with “Fuck John Key.. Fuck John Key … Fuck John Key…” (and my hasn’t that taken off all around the parts) all sorts of shit is flying. Imo it indicates that perhaps the silent sector of youth and disaffected have shunned their reticence, abandoned their lack of hope that change may ever come, finally found a voice to call shit, have grabbed gleefully at the chance to tell the old guard to “fuck off”

    Methinks this election will be a watershed in generational change in aotearoa.

    • weka 30.1
      11 August 2014 at 11:30 pm

      You know the thing that really worried them about that video? It wasn’t FJK, it was the call for revolution. It bypasses the intellect and goes straight to the fear centres where they know they’d be the first against the wall 😉

  31. Draco T Bastard 31
    11 August 2014 at 9:00 pm

    Mobile phone companies have failed – it’s time to nationalise them

    Nationalisation is a taboo among the political and media elite, its mere mention guaranteed to provoke near-instantaneous shrieks of “dinosaur!” and “go back to the 1970s”. Imagine the Establishment’s horror, then, when a succession of recent polls found that nearly seven out of 10 Britons wanted the renationalisation of energy, and two-thirds of the electorate wanted rail and Royal Mail back in public hands. Even Ukip voters – those notorious bastions of pinko leftiness – overwhelmingly backed the renationalisation of key utilities. While our political overlords are besotted with Milton Friedman, on many issues the public seem to be lodged somewhere between John Maynard Keynes and Karl Marx.

    No, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that was the same in NZ. Privatisation of our assets has left us worse off and most people realise that.

    The neo-liberal experiment has failed – just like it failed in the 19th century ending in the Great Depression.

    • Draco T Bastard 31.1
      11 August 2014 at 9:18 pm

      “It’s actually the classic case of economies of scale, or a natural monopoly, and the decision you’d have to make is whether it’s one firm or the state running the whole thing,” says Mazzucato. “When you chop it up, you lose the benefits of cost and efficiency from having one operator.” Many network providers spend more money on share buybacks than research and development, retarding further technological progress in the name of profit. And then there’s Vodafone, which has become one of the key targets of the anti-tax avoidance movement. It’s cheeky, really: leave the state to fund the technology your business relies on, and then do everything you can to avoid paying anything back.

      And there we have an economists saying exactly what I’ve been saying for years.

  32. karol 32
    11 August 2014 at 10:20 pm

    Been to Kumeu.

    There’s some control freakish rightees there.

    No prizes for guessing who was the one candidate who broke the rules and couldn’t resist debating/dissing another party….? And after the crowd started calling out “rules, rules…” the host woke up and threatened to expel fore mentioned candidate.

    In response to a question about how to end child poverty, did Key actually say, with gusto, “give all the kids jobs”….!?!

  33. Populuxe1 33
    11 August 2014 at 10:23 pm

    The US airstrikes in Iraq have been effective at the surviving Yezidi refugees have made it to safety in the Kurdish territories.

    • Colonial Vipers 33.1
      11 August 2014 at 11:00 pm

      It appear to have had some positive effects. Too bad it won’t help the Iraqi government which is collapsing and martial law appears imminent in Baghdad after a coup d’etat.

      • Populuxe1 33.1.1
        12 August 2014 at 7:11 pm

        Hardly suprising when you put the Shia minority in charge of the Sunni majority. The massive clusterfuck which is Iraq from, say, the Second Iraq War onward can squarely be laid at the feet of Bush and Blair. However not everything the US does is entirely self interested or a fuck up – this being a case in point. Similarly the Balkans intervention.

  34. felix 34
    11 August 2014 at 10:45 pm

    So, you know that song about John Key that Darren Watson released last week?

    Well it seems that the NZ Police have been sent to a radio station that played it and told them not to play it again.

    Weird. Who be responsible for that?

  35. Colonial Vipers 35
    11 August 2014 at 11:04 pm

    So…everything I have posted in the last little while has gone into auto-moderation?

    [lprent: extra ‘s’? Means that someone has to let you out of moderation once before you stop getting auto moderated. ]

  36. North 36
    12 August 2014 at 6:50 am

    Petty, gratuitous behaviour from Holly Ryan the apparent organiser of the Helensville ‘gag’ (as opposed to ‘gig’) towards Penny Bright . “Uninvited”, “shoving”, “bullying” or some such as she introduced Her Warship.

    ‘Onya Penny for your mature retort about rights and the exercise thereof. Very nicely you took the last word from tory control freak Holly of the Limited Universe.