Open mike 12/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:49 am, November 12th, 2014 - 145 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

145 comments on “Open mike 12/11/2014 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    12 November 2014 at 7:02 am

    Unlike the rwnjs like Chris 73 et al, Key does realise that some jokes are beyond the pale.

    “Obviously it was a very poorly placed attempt at humour. I regret that, and I unreservedly apologise.”

    His unreserved apology was tempered by an excuse however.

    He said he had “misinterpreted the question” when he made the joke.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11356994

    • Morrissey 1.1
      12 November 2014 at 7:16 am

      Imagine if a LABOUR prime minister had made such a joke.

      • chris73 1.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 7:26 am

        Its hard enough to imagine a LABOUR prime minister at the moment let alone one telling jokes

    • chris73 1.2
      12 November 2014 at 7:16 am

      Unlike the rwnjs like Chris 73 et al, Key does realise that some jokes are beyond the pale.

      – Got proof of what you say?

      • Morrissey 1.2.1
        12 November 2014 at 7:18 am

        Have you condemned Key for laughing about this? I’ve been looking for evidence that you have, but so far I haven’t found any.

        • chris73 1.2.1.1
          12 November 2014 at 7:21 am

          I don’t always have time to peruse the boards but I didn’t think it was appropriate at all however Paul (the reverse tr**l) suggested something so I asked him to back to it up

          • Murray Rawshark 1.2.1.1.1
            12 November 2014 at 6:59 pm

            I bet you’re one of those fools who whinge about reverse racism as well. That doesn’t exist either.

        • Paul 1.2.1.2
          12 November 2014 at 7:27 am

          Ignore him.
          He’s just a tr***

          • chris73 1.2.1.2.1
            12 November 2014 at 7:30 am

            and you’re a reverse tro**l

            When someone of little or no intelligence on the internet gets into a discussion, debate, or argument that they cannot keep up with because of their inability to think and process information outside of their closed little mind, and respond by calling the other person more intelligent than them (A TR**L)!

    • Murray Rawshark 1.3
      12 November 2014 at 6:56 pm

      What a crap apology. “Sorry for making a joke about the escaped pedophile murderer. I thought you were asking me about someone else.” As usual, he cannot help himself. He has to lie. FJK.

  2. Morrissey 2
    12 November 2014 at 7:09 am

    The Disgusting File
    No. 1: JOHN KEY

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “Yeah I’ll just let her know that, y’know [snicker, grin] there’s someone could be out there, ha ha ha ha!, from New Zealand [snicker] she may not want to invite round for lunch!” [snicker, grin]

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —New Zealand prime minister JOHN KEY, asked what he’d say to Chilean premier Michele Bachelet regarding murderer and paedophile Phillip John Smith, who absconded to Chile. Bachelet subsequently cancelled the planned meeting.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10730662/John-Keys-killer-paedophile-joke-falls-flat?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    The Disgusting File is a series compiled to highlight the most outrageous, irresponsible, hypocritical, and callous utterances of public figures, both in New Zealand and overseas.

  3. Dont worry. Be happy 3
    12 November 2014 at 7:20 am

    Key’s killer joke backfires. How would you feel if you had voted for this creep?

    • BM 3.1
      12 November 2014 at 7:23 am

      I voted for Key and have no problem.

      Not one of his best lines that’s for sure, but at least he apologizes when he gets it wrong.

      • marty mars 3.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 7:44 am

        If he said sorry after every time he misrepresentalated the truth that’s all he’d be doing and you know it.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.2
        12 November 2014 at 7:59 am

        He set a good example by apologising for his behaviour as opposed to any imagined offence caused, then immediately blew it by tagging an attempt at an excuse onto the end.

        • BM 3.1.2.1
          12 November 2014 at 8:01 am

          Nothing wrong with having a disclaimer, nobody likes to make a mistake and look foolish.

          Personally I think a straight out apology makes you look like a bit of a thicky at least with the apology excuse combo it’s gives you a better chance to nullify any damage caused.

      • McFlock 3.1.3
        12 November 2014 at 12:44 pm

        Of course you have no problem with it.

        You’re as morally illiterate as Key is. Things like “empathy” and “integrity” are alien concepts beyond your comprehension.

    • chris73 3.2
      12 November 2014 at 7:24 am

      Well child poverty is the same level since 2008 even though we’ve gone through the GFC and two major earthquakes, more people in work, mortgage rates are low and business confidence is good

      So on the whole not too bad

  4. Paul 4
    12 November 2014 at 7:30 am

    Anyone else hear Espiner’s interview of Sam Lotu-Iiga.
    What a train wreck. Completely unable to get off the trained script.
    Isn’t he a Slater creature?
    He made some of Parata’s interviews look good.

    • tc 4.1
      12 November 2014 at 7:36 am

      Smiley sammy ticks an ethnic box and tends to stay out of lime light, another big law firm nat mp.

      Winning and holding mangakieke twice earns him a few bad script reads.

    • odysseus 4.2
      12 November 2014 at 7:47 am

      Yes heard it, cringeworthy, embarassing…

    • tracey 4.3
      12 November 2014 at 11:09 am

      and that’s with him being snatched yesterday so he couldnt speak before they had him trained. Weve all just witnessed what happens when a Nat MP speaks without a few hours preparation (John Key)

    • CnrJoe 4.4
      12 November 2014 at 7:16 pm

      That would be a Simon Lusk creature

  5. Manuka AOR 5
    12 November 2014 at 7:34 am

    Yesterday on the “Headline” discussion I made the comment that “There seem to be two extremes operating in the govt, with weaker parties dismissing people and adjusting policies according to the weather of the day, and those in power doing or saying whatever they please regardless of all consequences.”

    One Anonymous Bloke asked for citations re: “weaker parties … adjusting policies according to the weather of the day”

    A couple that come to mind from the Greens are
    a) After the ChCh Quake an emergency measures bill was introduced that gave absolute power to the govt over individuals and the law as it stood until then. The Greens noted the dangers of that bill and initially looked set to object to it. However in the face of peer pressure from the rest of parliament, they backed down and the bill passed unanimously. This meant that when voices from the Law Society and elsewhere tried to question it, there wasn’t a toehold to move. “It was passed unanimously.”
    b) Russell Norman considered the idea of NZ having some sort of an internal economy that would finance essential services with our own local currency, I think. But rather than put it out there in clearer detail, or for open consideration, he ‘disappeared it ‘ at first criticism from the Nats and the press. It would have been good to at least consider it in a public discussion.
    c) And then there is this recent use of the Thought Police. (Browning demotion.)
    d) There also seemed to be a bit of a swizzle around during the lead up to the election as to the extent they would or would not work in with the Nats.

    And from Labour
    a) The minimum tax threshold – It magically appears and disappears like leaves on a deciduous tree
    b) Similarly, removing GST on essential foods (appears then vanishes)
    c) Being unclear as to the extent they would work with the Greens, and weaving around that
    d) Deciding, or making a public statement that, they would not work with the Maori Party, shortly before the election date

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1
      12 November 2014 at 7:52 am

      Greens

      a. How do you know there wasn’t “peer pressure” from within the party? Was there a caucus vote on the issue?

      b. Conflates Russel and the party.

      c. Well deserved demotion does not equal the thought police.

      d. Media driven “swizzle”.

      Labour.

      a. Leaf fall is seasonal, so is hardly a good metaphor for the weather on the day. was it “magic”, or some internal policy process?

      b. Ditto.

      c. Yep, they screwed up, eh.

      d. Not sure that was a weather on the day thing – “last cab off the rank” ring any bells?

      On the wider issue: that National get a free ride by comparison, I agree.

      • Manuka AOR 5.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 8:23 am

        My main point is that both Labour and the Greens allow themselves to be influenced by JK and the Nats, via the media, rather than being true to themselves. This is a gross weakness.

        The sequence of events in all those cases is that
        a) the Left party expresses something that, they say, they think or believe in
        b) JK/ Nats respond loudly with some sneering, derisive or coldly put-down comment
        c) Media repeat dear leader’s judgement as if gospel
        d) the Left party retract, bend, crawl away — and look for all the world like weaklings and insubordinates. Pathetic!!!!

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1
          12 November 2014 at 8:48 am

          Hmm. Remember what Bill English said about dead rats: an example of the National Party being prepared to compromise on matters of dogma when there’s political advantage in doing so.

          It’s easier for National to do this because they never discuss policy anyway. You’d be daft to call it weakness though, considering the results.

          Willingness to compromise enables the search for win/win solutions. Rigidity is brittle.

          • Manuka AOR 5.1.1.1.1
            12 November 2014 at 8:56 am

            What examples can you give of Nat’s having compromised on policy due to adverse media reporting?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.1.1
              12 November 2014 at 9:05 am

              The dead rats, for example. Schedule four is another I guess.

              • Manuka AOR …
                12 November 2014 at 9:19 am

                Which particular ‘dead rat’? Before they got in, English & JK were telling their constituents they may have to “swallow a few”, but not sure if they ever actually did so?

                Schedule Four – Mining in conservation land — Activity by stealth – Who knows what permits for exploration have been given out or where, and why the clear felling on the West Coast anyway.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  12 November 2014 at 10:16 am

                  Rats, plural. Not selling Kiwibank, keeping WFF.

                  Just using them to illustrate that compromise isn’t necessarily weakness.

            • ankerawshark 5.1.1.1.1.2
              12 November 2014 at 9:14 am

              M AOR @ 5.1.1.1.1 Increasing class sizes. Remember Nats were going to do this, then public outcry. Policy dropped.

              Of course we would likely see more of this if the media critiqued National rather than just endorsing them.

              • Manuka AOR …
                12 November 2014 at 9:23 am

                They facilitated Charter Schools instead.
                Rather than clear/ clean change of policy, they just seem to weasel around it and try and hide what they’re doing (often successfully). imo

              • Murray Rawshark …
                12 November 2014 at 7:30 pm

                I bet class sizes will increase over the next three years anyway. They do a lot of stuff without announcing it. They can fund fewer places for trainee teachers, for example.

          • Manuka AOR 5.1.1.1.2
            12 November 2014 at 11:27 am

            “Willingness to compromise enables the search for win/win solutions. “

            The problem with the concept of ‘compromise’ is that we have entered a new era, where the political playing field is no longer comprised merely of individuals and parties.

            We are now in an era where Transnational and Global Corporations, as well as foreign governments, are enacting their own agendas across all borders. I think that this new corporate driven era requires different responses than simple readiness to compromise with those agendas.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.2.1
              12 November 2014 at 11:40 am

              That’s not a new era that’s the way it’s always been – and it’s a mistake to assume that corporations speak with one voice – natural alliances can still be found.

          • Sabine 5.1.1.1.3
            12 November 2014 at 2:50 pm

            So if the Greens, the Labour Party and all the other opposition parties just go for bi-partisan dialogue and compromise why would anyone still vote fro them?

            If i have to choose between National Light aka. the Greens or Labour, or National Hardcore you know where the vote goes. I ma gonna stay home and do nuthing.

            And yes, the greens have compromised with National and they got the cycle way of national importance for it. Yei! As I was lectured by Marama Davidson in the lead up to the election, when the big brouhahah broke out about the Greens working with National.

            No really, I want my left party left, to the left of the spectrum, I want them proud, progressive, social minded and with a keen eye on the environment.

            When the greens and labour grow guts, balls and ovaries made from brass they will get my support. Until then? Nothing.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.3.1
              12 November 2014 at 3:42 pm

              Assuming that compromise involves a “bipartisan”, or binary approach is a mistake: often solutions can be found that neither party were aware of prior to discussion – the essence of win/win or integrative negotiation.

              The way riparian planting reduces river damage while simultaneously increasing yield, for example.

              Read Nándor Tánczos’ valedictory speech sometime –

              I came to Parliament thinking that the members were all a bunch of bastards, and I was wrong. There are many good people here. The very notion that all politicians are dishonest is misconceived, because if we think that politicians are all venal, then we expect nothing from them but venality. We should raise our expectations.

              My emphasis.

              • Manuka AOR …
                12 November 2014 at 6:28 pm

                1A Bloke, Parliament was a rather nicer place, I believe, when Nandor was there. Hager’s book notes certain changes that have happened since then… In light of that, surely what is needed is someone to call out the abuses of power – someone to take a strong stand against them. In other words, a strong and true Opposition Party (which sometimes seems to be MIA).

            • Manuka AOR 5.1.1.1.3.2
              12 November 2014 at 5:06 pm

              “No really, I want my left party left, to the left of the spectrum, I want them proud, progressive, social minded and with a keen eye on the environment. “

              Exactly. And I think the Greens have it together in essence – “This is who we are. This is what we stand for.” They are clearly distinct from other parties. But they still appear to be bending like reeds in the media winds sometimes when I’d rather see them stand tall.

              Labour are less clearly defined. How do people vote for a party they cannot clearly distinguish from others?

              • Murray Rawshark …
                12 November 2014 at 7:46 pm

                I tend to agree with you. I think homeopathy is a load of garbage, but it was mentioned on a petition, along with effective approaches. The Greens overreacted.

        • Ad 5.1.1.2
          12 November 2014 at 10:11 am

          The public are a lot more used to Labour folding like origami since they are a party based on compromise (and they are polling about where they are in my view due to lack of bold and principled stances on most things).

          Greens however have based themselves on highly principled policy positions, and they will suffer greatly if they are seen to shift too much.

          Labour’s public branding is essentially “we will slightly improve things”

          Green’s public branding is essentially “we will help change the world”

      • Manuka AOR 5.1.2
        12 November 2014 at 8:37 am

        Regarding the Statement about not working with the Maori Party, and you saying it was not a “weather of the day” thing — The sequence was that shortly before election date it appeared that the Left would beat out the Nats by their combined numbers. JK/ Nats saw this and pre-empted it by talking loudly about some sort of many-headed monster thingy that “no one would want in govt”.

        Rather than calling b/s, Labour said in effect, “Dear Leader’s right. No one wants a ‘multi combo monster. So it’s just us all alone. And maybe with the Greens but we’ll see how the wind’s blowing.. (What do you reckon dear leader?)”

        (ok so I threw the last phrase in to highlight the prob, but essentially that is how it went.)

  6. Dont worry. Be happy 6
    12 November 2014 at 8:07 am

    The fact that Key would laugh long and hard at his joke about a man who molested a child for years and then murdered the child’s father is a telling slip of the very expensive mask, years in the making, millions of dollars spent building.

    Makes his “she’s the same f……bitch that screams at me when I go down to Greymouth” to Slater even more likely.

    A con man can only get away with the con if everyone believes his carefully constructed charming “good bloke” image.

    This con man, the 1%’s Prime Minister, must be getting furious feedback from his donors and puppet-masters…there are after all, state houses to flog off to the booze industry for half price (again!) a secret deal with US corporations to stitch up and who knows what other heists they have planned…all at risk….because NZ just saw a glimpse of the real Key…and it was stomach turning.

    • felix 6.1
      12 November 2014 at 8:21 am

      “Makes his “she’s the same f……bitch that screams at me when I go down to Greymouth” to Slater even more likely.”

      Yep. I had thought that was probably Cameron’s paraphrasing, but after this latest moment of truth it’s easy to hear those words in Key’s own voice.

      • vto 6.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 9:09 am

        Yep and even if Key didn’t use the f and the b words you can most certainly hear the same sneering nasty tones and thoughts ………

        didn’t he also do a throat-slit gesture about a member of the public in Parliament once?

    • Murray Rawshark 6.2
      12 November 2014 at 7:51 pm

      I find it quite believable that Key would have spoken to Slater in that way. They talk like that to reassure each other of their manliness. As for the latest idiocy – at the age of about 4 I realised that only fools laugh at their own jokes.

  7. Red Blooded 7
    12 November 2014 at 8:31 am

    Did I really see Simon Bridges say that those of us losing our “air service” to Kaitaia in April 2015 should be pleased the “Holiday Highway road” will be built by 2017? Like another centimeter of road on a map is going to make all the difference to our region and does he know how far Wellsford is from Kaitaia?

    • Ad 7.1
      12 November 2014 at 10:23 am

      and the travel time savings from this massive highway upgrade construction are … about 11 minutes, in theory. I, sure that will help the 5 hour drive from Auckland.

      Genter can give you chapter and verse, but it’s on the NZTA website as well.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      12 November 2014 at 11:49 am

      And according to Key it’s “generally good news”.

      War is peace
      Slavery is freedom

  8. weka 8
    12 November 2014 at 8:40 am

    Automation going well I see.

    Imagine this scenario: You’re on an important trip miles from home and stopped in traffic, but before you can continue on your way, your car shuts down. You’ve got enough gas in the tank and no mechanical problems. But you’re stranded far from home because you’re a few days late on your car payment and the lender won’t let you drive until the debt is paid.

    If this sounds like part of a dystopian future in which repo men are now cyborgs, it’s not. It’s happening today and becoming a big part of the new automotive landscape. Car dealers and automotive lenders are targeting those with poor credit by installing GPS-based kill switches, or starter-interrupt devices, on the cars that they sell.

    The New York Times recently reported that about 2 million cars are now outfitted with such kill switches in the U.S., which is about one-quarter of subprime car loans, and creditors are not shy when it comes to remotely disabling cars whose owners are behind on their payments:

    “Some borrowers say their cars were disabled when they were only a few days behind on their payments, leaving them stranded in dangerous neighborhoods. Others said their cars were shut down while idling at stoplights. Some described how they could not take their children to school or to doctor’s appointments. One woman in Nevada said her car was shut down while she was driving on the freeway.

    “Beyond the ability to disable a vehicle, the devices have tracking capabilities that allow lenders and others to know the movements of borrowers, a major concern for privacy advocates. And the warnings the devices emit — beeps that become more persistent as the due date for the loan payment approaches — are seen by some borrowers as more degrading than helpful.”

    http://www.salon.com/2014/11/08/subprime_lenders_can_now_disable_your_car_while_youre_driving_on_the_freeway_partner/

    • BM 8.1
      12 November 2014 at 8:46 am

      The lesson in all that is.
      Pay your bills on time.

      Having said that though, bit silly to deactivate the car away from the persons home.

      Normally you’d ring fence a area such as the persons home address and when the person enters that area and the car has been switch off, then you deactivate it.

      • weka 8.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 8:49 am

        Ah, I see the empathy-deficit brigade are out in full force today. Can’t think of a legitimate reason for not paying a bill on time even according to your own judgemental as fuck code of ethics?

      • vto 8.1.2
        12 November 2014 at 8:57 am

        Yep because the most important people in the entire world, the people who need the complete and total protection of their rights, no matter all other peoples rights, are money-lenders……

        there you have it folks, money-lenders are the utmost important people in the entire world

        …

        people should refuse to borrow I think
        just don’t do it
        not for a house
        not for a car
        not for a phone
        not for anything
        if you aint got the cash money then you don’t buy it

        call it a general debt strike, right across the nation, everyone refuse anymore loans,…

        • Sabine 8.1.2.1
          12 November 2014 at 3:10 pm

          funny, my bank is quite concerned with me and my banking habits.
          I have cancelled my over draft 5 years ago.
          i have paid of my small loan in full
          have no visa card anymore
          have only an eftpos account left

          they send me so many letters telling me that they would be happy to provide me with a loan to buy stuff i don’t need.
          But I say no no no

          Next I will close the aussie bank account and join the local credit union.

      • greywarshark 8.1.3
        12 November 2014 at 9:51 am

        BM
        Great. That’s the quality of response we expect from you. We can rely on you for the stupid knee jerk reaction of the automated didactic moralistic pedant.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.4
        12 November 2014 at 11:52 am

        No, the lesson in this is how much the capitalists like to control your life.

      • Murray Rawshark 8.1.5
        12 November 2014 at 7:56 pm

        Normally is not a word you should use, Bowel Motion. What you should say is “A more expert brand of parasitic scum would deactivate the car at the person’s home.”

        I’m surprised they’re doing this in the US and A. Even though it won’t be happening to rich people’s cars, they could be involved in accidents involving cars killed off on the freeway. And they have lawyers that they’re not scared to use.

    • Ad 8.2
      12 November 2014 at 10:17 am

      I recall when User Pays was first introduced as a concept into New Zealand. It was and is a corrosion of the ideal of public services paid by the whole of the public, for the public good.

      Now, people don’t seem to mind if motorways are tolled. After all, public transport isn’t free.

      But public transport within a city should be as free as private transport on roads. We need to go back to the policy principle that all transport modes are cost neutral to the user/citizen. If public transport costs, so should using the roads. And the reverse if either mode is free.

  9. weka 9
    12 November 2014 at 8:46 am

    More driving news, the NZTA TInnyvision ad on not toking and driving. I thought it was well done and funny, but good luck with convincing the subset of dope smokers who think their driving can’t be impaired, or that it even improves under the influence.

    I think NZTA are going to have to follow up with actual research (would be interested to see it myself), and then figure out how to address the numbers of people who are going to be in denial (and whether the denial is cultural or a side effect of the drug or both).

  10. greywarshark 10
    12 November 2014 at 9:37 am

    Just musing
    Governments tend to get inefficient and may be careless of people’s needs, sometimes ruthless, but are expected to create living conditions that are bearable for the local inhabitants.

    Private interests and business tend to aim for efficiency, and also tend to be careless of people’s needs, often ruthless, but are expected to create profit as high as possible for their shareholders, and investors whoever and wherever they be, but not to serve or advance the inhabitants where they are sited.

    I think this sums up the situation and shows why people are better off overall to stick with government, but watch it to ensure it stays reasonably efficient and serves its local and overseas inhabitants, also necessary entities involved with government wherever they may be.

    • Ad 10.1
      12 November 2014 at 10:26 am

      Just observe how much of the public choice to get any of that public option has been cut from us.

      We now have one of the smaller set of public services and public choices in the OECD.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2
      12 November 2014 at 12:16 pm

      Governments tend to get inefficient

      Private interests and business tend to aim for efficiency

      Those two points are arse backwards. Governments are highly efficient and tend to get more efficient while the private sector claims efficiency while being highly inefficient. It is this latter part that keeps pushing costs up. If we went back to a government centred economy we’d see costs dropping along with the private sector profits.

      • greywarshark 10.2.1
        12 November 2014 at 2:23 pm

        DTB
        Sounds good. Theory is good. Keep doing good.
        Only if government had been so good in doing its business in UK Leslie Chapman would never have written his book and exposed the rort that had become embedded in Brit public service.
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10299926/Leslie-Chapman.html

        Which gave fuel to Maggie Thatcher.
        ‘Maggie, I wish I’d never seen your face
        I’ll get on back home, one of these days’

      • TheContrarian 10.2.2
        12 November 2014 at 2:29 pm

        Having worked in government departments, many different departments, I can tell you the inefficiency is enough to drive you fucking crazy

        • Draco T Bastard 10.2.2.1
          12 November 2014 at 2:35 pm

          Having worked in the private sector from small owner operators through to major corporations as well as government departments I can assure you the inefficiencies are far worse in the private sector.

          • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 10.2.2.1.1
            12 November 2014 at 3:03 pm

            Agree.

            Regarding major corporations:

            if we reckon question time in the House of Representatives is really weak at holding ministers to account, well then the question time for accountability in the board room is a tragic joke.

          • TheContrarian 10.2.2.1.2
            12 November 2014 at 3:23 pm

            Having worked in both govt and private I’m going to have to disagree with you there, Darco. Some of the fuck around’s I have seen in government lead to me to never want to work in govt again

            • Draco T Bastard 10.2.2.1.2.1
              12 November 2014 at 4:25 pm

              Some of the fuck around’s I have seen in government lead to me to never want to work in govt again

              And I could say exactly the same about the private sector and I’ve even seen such in the public sector but less of it and all times it came down to rules. I’m all for accountability but rules seem to be a bad way to go about getting it. Transparency is, IMO, a much better option but you’d never get transparency in the private sector so they’re stuck with inefficient rules whereas the public sector really needs transparency and thus could go for a more general and more efficient set of rules.

              • TheContrarian …
                12 November 2014 at 7:58 pm

                Well, we are at an “he said, she said” argument where we both are trying to use a personal anecdote to prove a point. Which proves nothing.

                I had one role once, years back, in the payroll/HR arm of a large Govt. department. This was during the Clark years. It was the most frustrating, inefficient role I have ever had the displeasure of working in. After 2 years of working and trying to make their process work better all I meet was a brick-wall of “rules” and micro-management. Totally fucking hopeless. Something I have met time and time again in public service.

                If you think the public service is more efficient you haven’t spent much time working in it. I have 8 years of public service under my belt, and in three different departments. You?

        • lprent 10.2.2.2
          12 November 2014 at 6:29 pm

          Corporates aren’t that much better based on my few experiences with government departments. It is why I usually avoid them.

          SME’s and particularly startups are much more interesting.

  11. logie97 11
    12 November 2014 at 9:42 am

    Rugby, referrees, and television replays.
    Hansen (the All Black coach) carping – “… not in the spirit of the game.”
    Seems to me that the replays are exposing foul play and cheating, as well as
    mistakes in rulings. More power to the television producers in my opinion.
    Surely Hansen wants his boys to win fairly and squarely.

    • Murray Rawshark 11.1
      12 November 2014 at 10:00 pm

      Don’t be silly. Hansen wants them to be winners. Like FJK. If you don’t get caught, you’re not cheating.

  12. Penny Bright 12
    12 November 2014 at 10:05 am

    Hi folks!

    IF YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR RIGHTS – YOU DON’T HAVE ANY.

    Here’s a fascinating little exercise that I’ve been through – so I thought I’d share the experience with others:

    Here are the statutory requirements for the information which MUST be on your rates assessment notice.

    Take a ruler and pencil, and line-by-line go through YOUR rates assessment notice and check how many of the mandatory requirements under the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002 s.45 are been complied with?

    I’m sure that The Standard has readers / commentators from all over New Zealand – so it will be interesting to hear how you get on 🙂

    I’ve already been through this exercise with the previous Auckland City Council rates assessment notices from 2009, and all the Auckland Council rates assessment notices.

    This research has provided some alarming results, particularly regarding the reduction in transparency with this Auckland ‘Supercity for the 1%’.

    Not only have rates gone up, debt gone up, but services and TRANSPARENCY have gone down.

    Don’t take my word for it – check for yourselves ….

    Local Government (Rating) Act 2002

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0006/latest/DLM132294.html

    45 Contents of rates assessment

    (1) A rates assessment must clearly identify all of the following:

    (a) the name and address of the local authority:

    (b) the name and address of the ratepayer:

    (c) the number on the district valuation roll of the rating unit:

    (d) the legal description and location of the rating unit:

    (e) the rateable value of the rating unit:

    (f) the amount and a description of each rate:

    (g) the activities or groups of activities of the local authority that will be funded
    from each rate:

    (h) the relevant matters in Schedule 2 that are required to determine—

    (i) the category (if any) to which the rating unit belongs for the purposes of
    setting general rates differentially under section 13(2)(b):

    (ii) the category (if any) to which the unit belongs for the purposes of setting
    a targeted rate under section 16(3)(b) or (4)(b)(i)information on the factors
    used to calculate the amount of the liability of a rating unit in respect of
    each targeted rate:

    (j) the financial year for which the rates are payable:

    (k) the total amount of rates payable on the rating unit for the financial year:

    (l) whether or not the local authority has a remission policy, a postponement
    policy, or a rates relief policy for Māori freehold land and, if so, a brief
    description of the criteria for rates relief under each policy:

    (m) the methods by which rates may be paid and the date or, if the rates are
    payable by instalments, the dates by which specified amounts must be
    paid:

    (n) if applicable,—

    (i) the penalty regime of the local authority; and

    (ii) a warning that, if rates are not paid on time, a penalty may be added
    under that regime:

    (o) if an early payment of rates has been made in accordance with a policy
    adopted under section 56(1),—

    (i) the rates paid and any balance remaining to be paid; and

    (ii) the amount of any discount allowed for the early payment of the rates;
    and

    (iii) any credit balance remaining after payment of all rates due, adjusted for
    any discount allowed:

    (p) the right of ratepayers to—

    (i) inspect the rating information database and rates records; and

    (ii) object to any of the information included in the rating information
    database and rates records.

    (1A ) If the ratepayer has elected to make a lump sum contribution to a local authority’s capital project, the rates assessment must also identify the targeted rates for the financial year for which, as a result of the election, no liability attaches to the rating unit.

    (2) A rates assessment may include any other information that the local authority thinks fit.

    (3) A rates assessment may be in 2 or more parts to identify the different treatment, for rating purposes, of different parts of a rating unit.

    (4)If subsection (3) applies,—

    (a)the information required under subsection (1) must be given for each part of
    the assessment as if each part were a separate assessment; and

    (b)each part must state that it is part of the rates assessment for the rating unit
    and identify the number of other parts that are included in the assessment.

    Compare: 1988 No 97 s 122(1)Section 45(1)(g): substituted, on 1 July 2003, by section 262 of the Local Government Act 2002 (2002 No 84).

    Section 45(1A): inserted, on 28 June 2006, by section 9 of the Local Government (Rating) Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 28).

    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

    Anti-corruption whistle-blower

  13. Draco T Bastard 13
    12 November 2014 at 11:02 am

    This Lawyer’s New Job Is Defending Climate Scientists From Political Attacks

    On Monday, Kurtz became the first-ever Executive Director of the CSLDF, a group that works to stem and prevent harassment of climate scientists. In her new position there, Kurtz says she hopes to expand the group’s network of attorneys who will volunteer to represent embattled climate scientists in court free of charge. The end goal, she said, is to help climate scientists do their jobs without fear of politically motivated retaliation.
    “One of our main goals is educating scientists on their legal rights and what they’re up against,” Kurtz said. “If and when things arise, we want to move as quickly as possible.”

    Scientists shouldn’t need this type of defense but the political attacks by the slater and CSC types show that it’s become necessary.

    • Chooky 13.1
      12 November 2014 at 4:55 pm

      …good …we need a list of NZ right wing PR spinners who attack climate change political parties and polices and scientists …and their quotes itemised ….so we can all see who they are

  14. adam 14
    12 November 2014 at 12:20 pm

    No wonder All blacks tweeted for national, they look at the gravy train Michael Jones is on with Cigna. Speaking of Cigna and all those other health insurers who suddenly appeared on our market – guess what they just won? Yes, mid terms – Bless them and their anti-democratic ways.

    Read here for more.

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/11/10/16245/health-insurers-win-midterm-election?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=watchdog&utm_medium=publici-email&goal=0_ffd1d0160d-dac0c521c9-100020097&mc_cid=dac0c521c9&mc_eid=c346e018f7

  15. Karen 15
    12 November 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Key seems to have lost it. Now he is saying Air NZ cutting flights to some areas in NZ is a good idea.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11356916

    • b waghorn 15.1
      12 November 2014 at 1:25 pm

      Not many votes in small town nz so why would a government care about there services being cut.

      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 15.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 1:35 pm

        Yeah, the government puts AirNZ shareholders ahead of NZ regional communities.

        • b waghorn 15.1.1.1
          12 November 2014 at 2:45 pm

          Had a quick Google and found that even the American’s put into law after they deregulated the airlines protections two ensure flights to at least 160 rural communities

          • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 15.1.1.1.1
            12 November 2014 at 2:58 pm

            NZ is determined to demonstrate world-leading governance for the type of corporate model that emphasises the primacy of shareholders above, beyond, and disconnected from citizens. Running way ahead of the USA.

            Thanks for the Google search result which is news to me.

  16. Not a PS Shark Sashimi 16
    12 November 2014 at 12:58 pm

    “Michael Collins dealt with critical press coverage by the Irish Independent by holding the editor at gunpoint and dismantling the printing presses.”

    One approach that hopefully is not needed.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1111/658563-adams-letter/

  17. travellerev 17
    12 November 2014 at 2:07 pm

    While Tim Groser and John Key during a nice cuppa with Obama agreed to just about everything the US wants from us in exchange for our admission to the TPP the news came in that a 176 Million people just joined the fight against the TPPA when the biggest union in the US came out with a statement squarely against the TPPA!

    • TheContrarian 17.1
      12 November 2014 at 2:26 pm

      It’s gotta get past the house and senate first which looks unlikely at this stage

    • Chooky 17.2
      12 November 2014 at 5:03 pm

      great article!…TPP amounts to sanctioning white collar crime really..imo….and great that there is so much opposition to it!

  18. Bea Brown 18
    12 November 2014 at 3:06 pm

    John Key sob John Key gnash teeth John Key sob
    John Key John Key John Key John Key John Key John Key John Key John Key John Key…

    Get over yourselves!

    He won! He’s the Prime Minister! We love him! The world loves him!

    Try to find a Labour leader who has any chance at all of beating him!

    Bet you can’t.

    • Sabine 18.1
      12 November 2014 at 3:14 pm

      Really we need better Trolls. The current crop is pathetic.

      [lprent: “Bea” was particularly inept. ]

      • Chooky 18.1.1
        12 November 2014 at 4:50 pm

        +100…all they can do is repeat themselves…brains are on automation

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1
          12 November 2014 at 4:54 pm

          lol

          I suppose trololololling is one of the few occupations that can’t be effectively automated at this stage 🙂

          • Chooky 18.1.1.1.1
            12 November 2014 at 4:59 pm

            they seem like people…but when you examine what they say…you have to wonder whether there are some cogs missing in the thinking department

      • JanM 18.1.2
        12 November 2014 at 5:53 pm

        The better ones have got a life 🙂

  19. minarch 19
    12 November 2014 at 3:12 pm

    DarkHotel: A Sophisticated New Hacking Attack Targets High-Profile Hotel Guests

    wonder if our PM is getting hax0red at his hotel in Beijing ?

    http://www.wired.com/2014/11/darkhotel-malware/

  21. Chooky 21
    12 November 2014 at 3:31 pm

    Instead of going bankrupt NZ dairy farmers and other agricultural producers should be having a concerted campaign to push targeting the Russian market and forging new trade links

    There is a European milk product glut due to Russian bans on trade…which will affect NZ returns from traditional European markets

    …However New Zealand is exempt from the Russian bans !

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11309054

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/10570033/Dairy-drop-kick-in-the-guts

  22. weka 22
    12 November 2014 at 6:24 pm

    “BREAKING: The US and China Just Announced a Huge Deal on Climate”

    http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/11/obama-just-announced-historic-climate-deal-china

    Colour me cynical, but is there anything in this list that is an actual committment? (as opposed to ‘aiming’ to do something).

    The plan does not entail using the US Environmental Protection Agency’s authority to regulate greenhouse gases, as the bulk of Obama’s existing climate strategy does. Instead, it involves a series of initiatives to be undertaken in partnership between the two countries, including:

    Expanding funding for clean energy technology research at the US-China Clean Energy Research Center, a think tank Obama created in 2009 with Xi’s predecessor Hu Jintao.

    Launching a large-scale pilot project in China to study carbon capture and sequestration.

    A push to further limit the use of hydroflourocarbons, a potent greenhouse gas found in refrigerants.

    A federal framework for cities in both countries to share experiences and best practices for low-carbon economic growth and adaptation to the impacts of climate change at the municipal level.

    A call to boost trade in “green” goods, including energy efficiency technology and resilient infrastructure, kicked off by a tour of China next spring by Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker and Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz.

  24. Chooky 24
    12 November 2014 at 8:13 pm

    Robert Fisk on the Middle East wars

    (Robert Fisk is a multiple award-winning journalist on the Middle East, based in Beirut.)

    ‘Why is there such an explosion of violence across the Middle East? Here’s an alternative view’…Forget Isis… it’s down to West’s desire to weaken Arab armies, Syrian adviser tells Robert Fisk

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/so-why-is-there-such-an-explosion-of-violence-across-the-middle-east-9831970.html

  25. Ovid 25
    12 November 2014 at 10:28 pm

    There’s a Russian naval task force bearing down on Australia. I guess to remind Abbott that talking big about “shirtfronting” is not the most diplomatic posture to take.

  26. Murray Rawshark 26
    13 November 2014 at 5:11 am

    This is disgusting stuff and says that Obama’s hand picked Attorney General protected some of the worst criminals in history. No wonder Key the conman bankster gets along so well with O’Bomber. They can laugh about the billions stolen from American workers and about how well Key is doing it to us. Then Key can tell his joke about murdering pedophile lunch guests. That’ll slay them all at the G20.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/…/the-9-billion-witness-20141106

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