Open mike 14/11/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 14th, 2024 - 48 comments
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48 comments on “Open mike 14/11/2024 ”

  1. Dennis Frank 1
    14 November 2024 at 6:41 am

    Islamic activists cut the head off a French school-teacher because a girl in his class put lies about him on social media: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2nd5d51rxo

    The girl claimed she had confronted Paty in a class she had not attended, falsely alleging that he had told Muslim students to leave the room while he showed "naked" images of the Prophet Muhammad.

    In reality, three cartoons published by a French satirical magazine had been discussed in class, and Paty had said anyone who felt they might be offended did not have to stay.

    When religion motivates people, truth becomes irrelevant. Any passing hallucination is likely to produce a fatal outcome. I get the impression that the teacher was presuming an enlightened discussion of satire was educational. Unfortunately there were immigrants in the room, so he became a martyr to the immigration policy of prior French govts…

    Reply
    • tWig 1.1
      14 November 2024 at 8:56 am

      It's worse than that: the student lied because she was wagging class again, and made up the story as an excuse to skip parental anger.

      The internet has not made us international. Rather it has magnified our human tendency to spread rumours at the village well and village pub.

      Reply
    • Koina 1.2
      14 November 2024 at 9:11 am

      Britain stole the lands we now know as Palestine in 1919 as a trophy of war.

      Britain still peddles the lie that they had a "mandate" from the League of Nations.

      Britain then facilitated the illegal Jewish invasion of Palestine in 1948.

      The USA has maintained the illegal Jewish invasion of Palestine for 75 years.

      Now both Britain and the USA support the genocide of Palestinians by the illegal

      Jewish invaders.

      When religion motivates people, truth becomes irrelevant.

      Any passing hallucination is likely to produce a fatal outcome.

      Reply
      • aj 1.2.1
        14 November 2024 at 10:03 am

        Yes – the truth.

        https://x.com/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1856492684745031740

        The media’s role in peddling disinformation over last week’s violence in Amsterdam just keeps getting darker.

        Owen Jones has interviewed a Dutch woman who shot the footage used by major outlets – from Sky News and the BBC to the Guardian and New York Times – to suggest that locals in Amsterdam carried out “antisemitic attacks” on Maccabi Tel Aviv fans.

        In fact, as she has noted on social media, her footage shows the exact reverse: Israeli fans attacking local Dutch residents.

        Reply
        • David 1.2.1.1
          14 November 2024 at 11:56 am

          I’m not sure what all that has to do with islamic activists be-heading a schoolteacher in France.

          Reply
        • Jenny 1.2.1.2
          14 November 2024 at 12:58 pm

          '

          Keep politics out of sports.

          You don't see Russian soccer fans violently clashing with local pro-Ukrainian sports fans in European cities.

          Why?

          Because Russian teams are banned from all European soccer tournaments.

          Keeping Russia out of international sporting tournaments, is keeping politics out of sports.

          Keeping Israel out of international tournaments, is keeping politics out of sports.

          If we can ban Russia from international sporting tournaments for invading Ukraine.

          We can ban Israel from international sporting tournaments for committing genocide in Gaza.

          France braces for Israel football match after violence in Amsterdam

          France tightens security before game that pro-Palestinian groups say should be boycotted given Israel’s onslaught in the Middle East.

          Al Jazeera By Sophie Stuber

          Published On 13 Nov 202413 Nov 2024

          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/13/france-braces-for-israel-football-match-after-violence-in-amsterdam?

          Reply
    • Obtrectator 1.3
      14 November 2024 at 10:14 am

      We in the west are reverting in some ways to a kind of pre-18th century society. With decreasing certainty about what is true and what is fake, ill-educated people can be easily convinced of any old rubbish, as long as you repeat it often enough and it appeals to their brute instincts.

      Reply
  2. Dennis Frank 2
    14 November 2024 at 7:40 am

    Triads are extremely influential in geopolitics:

    A mutual respect for autocratic approaches to life and politics is constant in the Trump-MBS-Netanyahu triad https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/14/trump-ii-and-the-coming-golden-age-of-tyranny-in-the-middle-east/

    In his book The Innovators (a history of leading-edge tech), media maestro Walter Isaacson repeatedly referred to the triad used by Vannevar Bush to make the USA into a superpower post-WWII. The formula was govt/corporations/academia in constant strategic liaison, and it worked perfectly.

    Beverly Gage writing recently in Foreign Affairs described how the Trump political brand differs from previous US administrations that embraced authoritarian leaders as geopolitical allies. More than that, Trump sees them as ‘models for how to live the good life.’

    Autocracy is a fun thing? Not to victims. Yet I get why it appeals in contrast to the vapid meanderings of democracy. It caters to the heroic ethos made famous by the mythologist Joseph Campbell, who established its eternal archetypal mass psychology.

    Reply
  3. Dennis Frank 3
    14 November 2024 at 7:54 am

    The hikoi demonstrates maori solidarity opposing Seymour & ACT, but there's also the judiciary and their track record of decisions, deriving from this pentad:

    In 1989 the fourth Labour government became the first New Zealand government to set out principles to guide its actions on matters relating to the treaty. These principles were:

    • The government has the right to govern and make laws.
    • Iwi have the right to organise as iwi, and, under the law, to control their resources as their own.
    • All New Zealanders are equal before the law.
    • Both the government and iwi are obliged to accord each other reasonable cooperation on major issues of common concern.
    • The government is responsible for providing effective processes for the resolution of grievances in the expectation that reconciliation can occur.

    No later government had defined any new treaty principles

    https://teara.govt.nz/en/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-nga-matapono-o-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/page-5

    Debate must therefore focus on Seymour's triad, and how it differs from this prescription.

    Based on the three Articles of the Treaty, the Bill defines the Treaty principles as:

    1. Civil Government: The Government of New Zealand has full power to govern, and Parliament has full power to make laws. They do so in the best interests of everyone, and in accordance with the rule of law and the maintenance of a free and democratic society.
    2. Rights of Hapū and Iwi Māori: The Crown recognises, and will respect and protect, the rights that hapū and iwi Māori had under the Treaty of Waitangi at the time they signed it. If those rights differ from the rights of everyone, it will only be when agreed in the settlement of a historical treaty claim under the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.
    3. Right to Equality: Everyone is equal before the law and is entitled to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination. Everyone is entitled to the equal enjoyment of the same fundamental human rights without discrimination. https://www.treaty.nz/

    There's a superficial similarity, plus a subtle warping in play. Folks will default to mindless rejection due to lack of intellect, so parliamentarians must rise to the intellectual challenge of specifying the warp factor…

    Reply
    • SPC 3.1
      14 November 2024 at 11:22 am

      The two differences

      1.Labour in 1989 determined the principles by which it would act.

      This was not imposed on later governments.

      2.Seymour wants to determine the Treaty principles and then enshrine them via referendum as an encumbrance on future governments.

      The first is in keeping with our parliamentary system, the second is the agenda of a libertarian revolutionary cult.

      Reply
  4. Tiger Mountain 4
    14 November 2024 at 8:56 am

    Dennis may be having a ’shroom day…

    Watched the various videos of the hikoi with great pride myself. Māori, Pākehā and Tau Iwi are going to give David Seymour a good knee in the nuts over his divisive racist agenda here–it is rather blatant–Te Tiriti protects Māori intellectual property, and often the environment we all live in. Act want to give their capitalist backers a big pay day, which Te Tiriti is an obstacle to.

    Reply
    • Incognito 4.1
      14 November 2024 at 9:06 am

      Reading DF’s brain farts hogging pole position in OM, day after day, feels like a bad trip.

      Reply
    • SPC 4.2
      14 November 2024 at 11:10 am

      Hosking et al… that early morning tumeric+ to have the energy to show up and also clean his personal space with the portable device.

      With the advantage of being closer to God than those around him.

      In the USA the latest craze in SV is to get techies (and some actors) to find life meaning via religion, instead of Molly and magic mushrooms etc.

      The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Marco Allegro (1970)

      In this book, the author goes back to the roots of civilization in Sumeria to trace the use of psychedelic mushrooms as tools for divine revelation

      And then in 2009

      Jesus and the Magic Mushroom (Sean Williams).

      He is on point as per France, a proud secular republic, as Voltaire did warn them.

      Anyone who can make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices

      "The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination".

      Thus the statue of liberty gift to New York

      Thomas Jefferson

      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants … Variant: When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

      One must remember the republic was founded with the notion that all men were created equal, but only men that owned property could vote, and those that were property were either slaves or women.

      Thus Burr rebelled against Hamilton's banking monopoly in New York and (believed women should vote) and then came Jackson (all men over 21 voting).

      Rebellion against continuing tyranny is a duty to man and justice.

      Reply
  5. tWig 5
    14 November 2024 at 9:17 am

    An absolutely chilling thought from a reddit/nz poster on ACT's strategy with the Treaty Bill:

    "The final version that comes out of Select Committee will be picked up by someone like Hobson's Pledge and they'll put it up for Citizen's Initiated Referendum at the next election, thereby bypassing the need to have it passed via Parliament"

    Reply
    • Ad 5.1
      14 November 2024 at 11:05 am

      We're not led by a Bolger-National government in all his statesmen-gubernator presence.

      We're under the same blowback as Trump – just comfortably lighter.

      Reply
  6. Subliminal 6
    14 November 2024 at 9:49 am

    Gaza before the genocide was a place with a population density greater even than Tokyo. As the logic of genocide is progressed by Israel, the already fragile infrastructure of this population is destroyed.

    We now have the situation in Gaza where not only are families targeted in their homes, all water collection on rooftops destroyed, medics and doctors arrested as "terrorists", tortured and killed, but also, rivers of raw sewerage running through the streets.

    Nome of this is a cosequence of a fanciful war on Hamas. These are deliberate acts.

    Toilets are now public sink holes of shared disease. According to the World Health organisation, the area is enduring over a million cases of respiratory disease and 100 000 cases of jaundice and according to the British medical journal, 40 000 cases of Hepatitis A.

    Added to this is the cynical withdrawal of the US ultimatum to Israel to allow humaitarian aid which is now at is lowest and most insignificant. The Gazan population is being bombed, tortured, starved and subject to extreme disease. The application of the logic of genocide is the only plausible explanation.

    The US, UK, France and Germany continue to support this genocide and apply laws on terrorism to limit speech in support of the inalienable right of Palestinians to live as human beings.

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/absorption-pits-necessary-hazardous-gazas-displaced/49896

    Reply
    • Dennis Frank 6.1
      14 November 2024 at 10:22 am

      Leaders usually defer to realpolitik: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241113-end-of-empathy-did-the-gaza-genocide-render-the-un-irrelevant/

      The UN Sec-Gen diagnosed the problem, so the world's leaders ignored him. There's an absence of moral leadership to provide a positive alternative because those with the power to act default to maintaining the status quo. This mind-set pervades the left and right in politics equally: too hard, evade the issue.

      Reply
      • Koina 6.1.1
        14 November 2024 at 12:18 pm

        So your trying to say the Left is as power crazy as the Right.

        Yeah whatever.

        Same old lies damned lies and statistics and more lies.

        The Right wing are for the status quo because the Status quo = Right wing power.

        In fact the left does try to effect real change,

        Feminism, racial equality, Homosexual law reform, anti nuclear, educational choices, work safety, 40 hour week, a living wage, maternity leave, healthy housing, access to health care environmental issues and mental health.

        These are all Left wing driven policies ferociously opposed by the right wing.

        Anyone challenging right wing power is always accused of "dividing" the country.

        Its all about mind games and appealing to base prejudice fear and ignorance.

        And the Right wing are past masters at evoking deep seated prejudice.

        It is their calling card.

        The 3 Prime Ministers at election 2023.

        Trump just last week.

        Reply
        • Dennis Frank 6.1.1.1
          14 November 2024 at 12:54 pm

          I agree re actual progress made by the left. I went on protest marches half a century back to support the making. Yet the system, as fundamental problem, endures due to leftist politicians refusing to change it.

          On the left, there's a category divide between idealists & pragmatists. The former have an authentic passion for change, the latter a pragmatic resistance to change.

          Reply
    • SPC 6.2
      14 November 2024 at 11:51 am

      Obama left a legacy with UNSC R 2334 (including Stephen Rainbow soiling his reputation with his tirade against McCully).

      Biden has to live down, his protection of the women of Afghanistan is not part of America's forever war line, if he does nothing between now and Jan 2020 it will be an epitaph.

      If an American POTUS does not leave office giving the fingers sending a message to Benny, he has no pride left, nor anything further to offer in terms of leadership.

      Reply
  7. Dennis Frank 7
    14 November 2024 at 9:54 am

    Observer pointed out yesterday here a classic instance of Hipkins' incompetence, yet it is possible that his performance contains a measure of metacognition. That proceeds from a future role as ambassador or high commissioner, which he could be appointed to by either National or Labour if he serves both well enough.

    Thus his complacency, which he shares with a majority of kiwis. Also worth mentioning that his nominal role in pretending to oppose the govt puts him up against a triad: sufficient to induce any normal Labour leader to wimp out.

    I get the impression that triad (Luxon/Peters/Seymour) remains distinctly collegial, via useful idiot theory: each leader sees the other two as useful idiots. I suspect they have sufficient metacognition to realise that's happening, thus their mutual amiability…

    Reply
    • Muttonbird 7.1
      14 November 2024 at 10:24 am

      Speaking of useful idiots…

      Reply
      • Dennis Frank 7.1.1
        14 November 2024 at 11:19 am

        Indeed I was, yet what use is he to the left actually? A useful placeholder – yet it begs the question as to why the left feel that their leader ought to do that. Okay, you'll be wanting to point out that its classic leftist symbolism. I get that.

        Reply
  8. ianmac 8
    14 November 2024 at 10:14 am

    Aaron Smale really nails the issues. A great read.

    The abuse and torture claims that Collins denied and that Jagose worked to defeat legally were abhorrent crimes against children.

    And it begs the question – why is this not a sackable offence when Luxon has sacked his Minister of Media for fumbling her lines and not handling the shambles that she inherited from decades of failures. His administration also sacked Health NZ board members for not getting their budgets right. Hardly a crime.

    Luxon retaining Collins and Jagose as the Crown’s lawyers is not just a political matter, although it has now become that. It also has serious implications legally.

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/13/aaron-smale-an-apology-both-sincere-and-hollow/?utm_source=Newsroom&utm_campaign=630fa786cc-Daily_Briefing+14.11.2024&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-630fa786cc-95522477&mc_cid=630fa786cc&mc_eid=88a3081e75

    Reply
  9. Muttonbird 9
    14 November 2024 at 10:19 am

    Government lawyers say the racist principles bill is so weak no court would take any notice of it. VUW professor of Law, Dean Knight, also says it is "ugly, misconceived, inconsistent, and fiction":

    Victoria University of Wellington professor of law Dean Knight said the advice was "quite damning and suggests that if enacted, the bill would probably be constitutionally ineffective".

    "It's the government's own lawyers recognise that the bill would at first blush undermine Māori people's rights to culture and freedom from discrimination. However, it effectively says that the violation of these important rights in Te Tiriti itself are so serious that they expect the courts would be under a duty to read the Bill in a way that preserves those rights and original Treaty obligations.

    "In other words, the bill is so ugly and misconceived that it won't work and the courts won't let fictional meanings be given to fundamental instruments like Te Tiriti o Waitangi."

    He said the constitutional context was very unusual because Parliament was "effectively trying to legislate a legal fiction".

    "If you think about what the principles are, they're merely code for 'practical meaning of Te Tiriti' and if Parliament tries to codify unauthentic meanings as principles the courts will in all likelihood give more direct effect to Te Tiriti itself, which the bill says explicitly will continue to stand unchanged.

    "That's what the government's lawyers are saying here is that the bill's internally inconsistent and not clear enough to trump the original, the source, meaning of Te Tiriti."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533705/treaty-principles-bill-bill-of-rights-act-advice-quite-damning-academic

    Reply
    • Tony Veitch 9.1
      14 November 2024 at 10:45 am

      As Seymour pointed out, his "stated aim" is to "democratise" the Treaty.

      How about the Americans wanting to democratise the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence? Or the English wishing to democratise the Magna Carta?

      It just doesn't work that way – and Seymour is well aware of that. The ACT-led CoC is being strung along by Seymour to satisfy his 1% paymasters.

      All it does is expose how spineless Luxon is!

      Reply
      • Ad 9.1.1
        14 November 2024 at 11:02 am

        Done well this will be the introduction to a nationwide conversation on our own written constitution.

        We need to prepare something of substance for 2040 or this is just going to go round and round and round.

        The Treaty was a really big reason the left got turfed out in October 2023. Unless anyone has forgotten the fresh water debacle.

        We need to hear a lot more from Labour's Maori caucus in particular Willie Jackson.

        Tune in more to ZB and less to RNZ to get the reality of the masses and not the elites.

        Reply
        • Dennis Frank 9.1.1.1
          14 November 2024 at 11:22 am

          Good luck with that. So far all we have from the left is an organised attempt to live in the 19th century plus posturing. I guess the notion that the left is capable of using intellect is generally viewed as antiquated.

          Reply
          • SPC 9.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2024 at 11:27 am

            Disagreement with an arrogant centrist is to learn the art of the Indian virtuous circle, surround and then metascalp at will (when bored)

            Indian virtuous circle (free men born in the New World of the Columbian order)

            Reply
          • Ad 9.1.1.1.2
            14 November 2024 at 11:29 am

            It's already started. The hui and the hikoi will grow their own thing as they did with Foreshore and Seabed, and MMP, and land rights, and others. This is the movement.

            Reply
        • Muttonbird 9.1.1.2
          14 November 2024 at 11:31 am

          Those who minimise Te Ao Maori (ZB listeners) are going to die off in huge numbers between now and 2040. There's a cohort of racist boomers in or close to retirement and you can tell they make up the bulk of ZB listeners by the frequency of aged care residence and bladder control product advertising.

          Reply
          • Ad 9.1.1.2.1
            14 November 2024 at 11:58 am

            We've been waiting over a century for attitudes to die off with each generation dying, and it's the same attitude in power now. ZB is good proxy for it.

            Reply
            • Muttonbird 9.1.1.2.1.1
              14 November 2024 at 12:10 pm

              TOW Act and Tribunal only been around for 50 years. The worst of the stale pale males and their wives were already adults then. Agreed, there are still a lot of red neck, Ranger-driving gen-Xers, but the trend is down.

              Mostly due to education/curriculum/NZ history, which is why Seymour and Farrar are so desperate to kill state schooling and teacher unions. Farrar yesterday having another massive cry about some Wellington and Hutt Valley schools joining Toitū Te Tiriti next week.

              Reply
  10. Ad 10
    14 November 2024 at 10:57 am

    OK Matt Gaetz as Attorney General is a bit out there.

    Reply
    • SPC 10.1
      14 November 2024 at 11:17 am

      Is there one appointment that is sound and considered for the well being of American governance … it is now a matter of relativity.

      There is no longer a standard, and with Trump as POTUS, how could there be.

      Reply
    • joe90 10.2
      14 November 2024 at 11:27 am

      And Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence.

      Reply
      • Dennis Frank 10.2.1
        14 November 2024 at 11:43 am

        Interesting, thanks. Crossover folk are always worth investigating. I recently read the new bio by Fred Trump Jr, who votes democrat yet still manages to remain on fairly good terms with Uncle Donald. As good an insight into the family saga as the one I read from Mary Trump a while back.

        Reply
      • Tiger Mountain 10.2.2
        14 November 2024 at 12:58 pm

        Jeez, despite the CoC situation in our shaky Isles it is comforting to be here rather than Yoo Ess Ayy…

        Reply
  11. Ad 11
    14 November 2024 at 11:49 am

    Another layer on top of a truly terrible year for mainstream media, with the closure of a massive set of local newspapers by Christmas:

    – century-old Te Awamutu Courier

    – Hauraku-Coromandel Post

    – Katikati Advertiser

    – Te Puke Times

    – Taupo and Turangi Herald

    – Napier Courier

    – Hastings Leader

    – Hawkes Bay Mail

    – Stratford Presd

    – Tararua Bush Telegraph

    – Whanganui Midweek

    – Manawatu Guardian

    – Horowhenua Chronicle and

    – Kapiti News

    Reply
  12. dv 12
    14 November 2024 at 12:17 pm

    Good to see Levy is earning his money!!!!

    GEEZ

    The man in charge of the country's public health system has stepped in to ensure all staff can still have a drink of Milo at work.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360486766/health-nz-commissioner-steps-stop-staff-losing-milo

    Reply

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