Open mike 16/02/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 16th, 2019 - 192 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

192 comments on “Open mike 16/02/2019 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Andre 1
    16 February 2019 at 7:24 am

    So the Fanta Fascist finally declares his national emergency to placate his wallnuts. Then immediately says “I didn’t need to do this”. Then fucks off to Florida to play golf, instead of dealing with the “emergency”. All of which adds up to a totes convincing argument there’s an actual emergency that justifies attempting to abrogate the Constitution.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-national-emergency-didnt-need_n_5c66e76ce4b05c889d1ed6bf

    • Jenny - How to get there? 1.1
      16 February 2019 at 8:06 am

      “Power Corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”.

      It is hard to imagine that absolute power could corrupt Donald Trump, Trump is already corrupt.

      Maybe the saying has got it backward; Maybe it is the corrupt who seek power, and just maybe it is the absolutely corrupt that seek absolute power.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/

      The Alarming Scope of the President’s Emergency Powers
      From seizing control of the internet to declaring martial law, President Trump may legally do all kinds of extraordinary things.

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.1.1
        16 February 2019 at 9:25 pm

        How corrupt is Donald Trump?

        Is there anything that the President wouldn’t do?

        Republican commentator Peter Wehner weighs in

        The Full-Spectrum Corruption of Donald Trump
        Everyone and everything he touches rots.

        There’s never been any confusion about the character defects of Donald Trump. The question has always been just how far he would go and whether other individuals and institutions would stand up to him or become complicit in his corruption.

        …….Corruption has been evident in Mr. Trump’s private and public life, in how he has treated his wives, in his business dealings and scams, in his pathological lying and cruelty, in his bullying and shamelessness, in his conspiracy-mongering and appeals to the darkest impulses of Americans…..

        …..Some of us who have been lifelong Republicans and previously served in Republican administrations held out a faint hope that our party would at some point say “Enough!”; that there would be some line Mr. Trump would cross, some boundary he would transgress, some norm he would shatter, some civic guardrail he would uproot, some action he would take, some scheme or scandal he would be involved in that would cause large numbers of Republicans to break with the president. No such luck. Mr. Trump’s corruptions have therefore become theirs. So far there’s been no bottom, and there may never be.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/opinion/sunday/corruption-donald-trump.html

        That “bottom” may just have been reached, and passed by, with barely a murmur of protest from the Republican Party. Leading Republicans, including Senate leader Mitch McConnell who had previously warned Trump against declaring a State Of National Emergency . But in the end, along with the rest of the Republican establishment, O’Connell went along with Trump’s demand to put the country under a state of emergency.

        The President is now left to look for a new “bottom”, that the Republicans will support

        The fact that after declaring a State of National Emergency the President then went to his golf course for the weekend, indicates that his declaration of a state of National Emergency is more of a personal insurance policy against impeachment than any real or imagined national emergency.

        Will the Republican leaders and party support the President if using his new powers the President over rules Congress, or shuts down or turns aside the investigations into his personal and business affairs?

        The Republican Party controlled Senate’s, tame acquiescence, despite muttering their faint disapproval, indicates that they will allow any anti-democratic or extra-legal outrage from this President.

    • RedLogix 1.2
      16 February 2019 at 10:12 am

      Any comment from a nation that has a natural border wall of thousands of miles of ocean … on any other nation’s border security arrangements lacking such an advantage … almost unconsciously falls into irony.

      • Andre 1.2.1
        16 February 2019 at 10:21 am

        Given that I’m a citizen of the US, registered to vote in a district on the border, and spent 7 months crossing the border twice every day between my home in San Diego and work in Tijuana at a time when the rate of illegal border crossing was at least 3 times what it is now, and have plans to return to the US to live near the border once my family obligations in NZ are fulfilled, still think I’m unqualified to comment?

        • Sanctuary 1.2.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 10:37 am

          Slam dunk!

        • RedLogix 1.2.1.2
          16 February 2019 at 10:42 am

          OK given your expertise; exactly what IS your view on the US/Mexican border?

          After all if you have the privilege of travelling freely across this border, why not everyone else?

          Should there be any border at all?

          • Andre 1.2.1.2.1
            16 February 2019 at 11:10 am

            In my opinion, the construction of physical barriers authorised by the Secure Fence Act 2006 means there is now already existing physical barriers almost everywhere along the border where there is anything vaguely like rational justification for physical barriers. (There may be a few specific problem areas where new or upgraded barriers might make sense, but those are few and far between). Along parts of the California border I’m familiar with, the barriers put up post 2006 are already excessive, with the ecosystem damage done by stopping animal movement outweighing their minimal effectiveness in stopping border crossing.

            There are a lot of good reasons to not put physical barriers where there aren’t already barriers. Ecosystem damage. Impeding floodwaters in the Rio Grande. The rights of native people’s like the Tohono O’odham to move around in their lands that are partly in Mexico and partly in the US. The effectiveness of barriers in stopping people in these remote areas is very low so it’s a waste of money. The message sent by building a barrier is just ugly.

            I’m not opposed to further enhancing border security by improving screening technology at entry ports, and I’m even mildly supportive of increased surveillance and sensoring of remote areas to detect border crossers. As much for humanitarian reasons to ensure the crossers are found and made safe, because most of the non-city parts of the border are fkn inhospitable. Lack of water, extreme heat, and winter cold contributed to a death toll I found horrifying while I was there.

            The privilege I had of crossing the border every day wasn’t free. I had to get permits from US and Mexican authorities. I had to go through US Customs every afternoon. US and Mexican authorities both photographed me and my vehicle in both directions every time. The only people talking about open borders are those putting up straw men.

            • RedLogix 1.2.1.2.1.1
              16 February 2019 at 11:34 am

              So if getting across the border is so easy for you (apart from the inconveniences you mention, some form filling, queuing and photos) it’s still pertinent to ask yourself, why you have this privilege and many millions who would like to enter the USA don’t.

              Still your response is helpful; clearly you believe your legal citizenship of the USA is of value, and this value is worth protecting via effective, enforceable borders.

              So the question now devolves down to the details. Exactly what form should this border take? In essence you seem to be arguing that the status quo is adequate; yet during my brief encounter with it at the start of the Pacific Crest Trail many years back, it was quite clear that I had to be aware of illegal migrants in the area, and be careful not to get entangled with them.

              And yes the existing border is of some considerable effect; otherwise why would smugglers bother digging tunnels? But clearly the current arrangements are not 100% effective and probably never can be. How many millions of illegal immigrants are there in the USA now? How much drug and people smuggling is enabled because the border is sufficiently porous to make the attempt worthwhile?

              A sodding great concrete wall from coast to coast was always just simplistic campaign rhetoric on Trump’s part, but the underlying message was plain enough and hard to argue against … either have an effective border, or not bother. If so it’s hard to understand exactly why this issue has degenerated into the debacle it has.

              (Incidentally I have met a person who was a member of the Mexican National Parliament who quite adamantly and seriously argued for no border … so not necessarily the strawman you imagine.)

              • Macro …
                16 February 2019 at 12:16 pm

                Fact is Red most Americans don’t want the wall or anything resembling it.

                The survey found that 56 percent of respondents do not support the president’s proposal to construct a wall along the southern border, compared to 44 percent who do.

                Erecting a broad security barrier along the border is only slightly more popular, according to the poll. Only 46 percent of respondents support that proposal, while 54 percent oppose it.

                A majority of U.S. voters surveyed, 58 percent, said Trump should withdraw his demand for the border funding, while 42 percent said the president “should not give in.”

                https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/423099-poll-majorities-oppose-trumps-wall-funding-demand-call-for-compromise
                And as Andre says – it’s not easy crossing the border – even for US citizens.
                Upping the number of personnel at border crossing would not only speed up the process, but slow the number of illegal border crossings considerably because most illegal immigrants in the US actually entered the US legally. They are now illegal immigrants because they overstayed their visa. What is now needed is an amnesty and application period so illegal immigrants can sort their situations out. Many are hard working and supporting the economy and would be valuable citizens.

                • RedLogix …
                  16 February 2019 at 12:45 pm

                  They are now illegal immigrants because they overstayed their visa. What is now needed is an amnesty and application period so illegal immigrants can sort their situations out.

                  There is some merit in an amnesty if you can argue that the state had fallen short in it’s processes in the past, and as part of a one-off reform, all prior transgressions will be rectified. But what of the many millions of hard working migrants who went through the onerous process to obtain legal residency? Why devalue their legitimacy?

                  Amnesties are not a ‘get out of jail free’ card with no consequences.

                  And more from you link above:

                  “While a plurality want President Trump to relent in terms of the shutdown, a majority want to see the Democrats and Republicans enter into a compromise with $2.5 billion in barrier funding,” said Mark Penn, the co-director of the Harvard CAPS/Harris poll.

                  In other words a majority do want a more secure border. But reflexive political polarisation is preventing it.

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.2.2
        16 February 2019 at 11:43 am

        Any comment on a nation that has an open border of thousands of miles with their Northern White Majority neighboring country, Canada, but demands a weaponised border on their southern border with Mexico almost unconsciously falls into racism.

        • RedLogix 1.2.2.1
          16 February 2019 at 12:27 pm

          Because there are millions of Canadian’s migrating to the USA? Nice attempt on the racism card though.

          (Also worth noting that the USA/Canadian border is strongly policed in many ways and can be scarcely described as ‘open’.)

          • Jenny - How to get there? 1.2.2.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 5:18 pm

            Maybe if the US had overthrown Canadian governments, installed and armed brutal puppet regimes, stole their natural resources, exploited their people and indebted and impoverished their economy, as the US imperialists have done to a number of Latin American countries, millions of Canadians might be trying to find some sort of refuge in the US.

            Not that the Americans haven’t tried.

            At that time, luckily for the Canadians, they then had another global Super Power once known as the British Empire on their side.

            http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/canadaweb/factfile/Unique-facts-Canada5.htm

    • marty mars 1.4
      16 February 2019 at 10:45 am

      lol – wtf is this stupefuckerlying turnip up to – he’s either an idiot or really stupid – I just can’t decide. He’s just said there wasn’t an emergency???

    • AB 1.5
      16 February 2019 at 11:02 am

      Declaring an emergency when there isn’t one – why would someone do that?

      a.) it’s just an infantile, petulant way of delivering an election promise? That’s bad, but it is really just the psychopathology of one person and therefore time-limited

      b.) the Republican machine likes the idea of an emergency as cover for other things they fancy doing. This is the one to watch out for – for example a supposed national emergency over illegal immigration could unleash voter suppression of poor/black/brown people – all justified as required to preserve the ‘integrity’ of the electoral system from waves of (fictional) illegals taking over the country.

      We are not immune to being manipulated by fake emergencies ourselves. Remember how in 1984 the emergency was that our economy was like a ‘Polish Shipyard” and we would go broke and all be eating grass the following week unless we gave away large chunks of it to private profiteers?

      • greywarshark 1.5.1
        16 February 2019 at 11:05 am

        Got some good grass recipes? Perhaps marinating it in oil and vinegar would make it digestible? Any ideas from people who have heard something about?

      • RedLogix 1.5.2
        16 February 2019 at 11:12 am

        Declaring an emergency when there isn’t one – why would someone do that?

        Well clearly it’s not Trump’s first choice. This hasn’t happened in a vacuum; this border has a long history of ‘no good choices’.

        This is what gets me; Trump is an unconscionable oaf of a man, everything he touches turns to shit. Yet for all the liberal wailing and renting of ash cloth, all the reflexive opposition to Trump, I see very little in the way of realistic analysis over the best way forward here.

        • marty mars 1.5.2.1
          16 February 2019 at 11:37 am

          It’s not ‘reflexive opposition’ it is considered opposition and imo there are screeds of alternatives from many different angles. This is not a ‘new’ issue just one t.rump invented for votes.

          • RedLogix 1.5.2.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 11:56 am

            Yes, there are many alternative ways to implement an effective border. The IT world has a concept called ‘Defense in Depth”; the idea being that no single layer of cyber security is adequate by itself, but that multiple layers of technologies each detecting intrusions in different ways is a better solution.

            One big concrete wall is analogous to a single firewall; either it’s so locked down and tyrannical that it’s too onerous for legitimate users, or it’s pragmatic but vulnerable to determined hackers. Trump’s big wall idea was flawed from the outset for this very reason.

            Accepting that there is no single layer solution to border protection (either in an IT or physical sense) opens up alternative layered means that work ‘in depth’; what one layer misses, another stands a good chance of catching. I’m no security expert but I’m certain there are many ideas to be explored.

            I’d argue that the USA voters in general want better border security, and the problem is eminently solvable. But extreme political polarisation means that neither side in Washington will give their opponents any whiff of success. Opposition now means blocking and preventing any constructive solutions simply for the sake of it.

            • marty mars 1.5.2.1.1.1
              16 February 2019 at 12:15 pm

              “Yes, there are many alternative ways to implement an effective border.”

              like getting agreement about what that actually means for instance. T.rump is fear mongering and whipping up all sorts of bigotry and prejudice for what? To get votes – it has ZERO to do with security – it’s like this dim –

              US President Donald Trump’s aide Sarah Sanders has been ridiculed for suggesting a border wall would have stopped Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman from importing drugs…

              …But she was castigated for a simple oversight – walls did little to prevent the flood of drugs into the US because El Chapo famously had tunnels dug underneath walls, flew the drugs in on aircraft or smuggled them in through legal points of entry – something people were quick to notice.

              https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/sarah-sanders-mercilessly-ridiculed-over-tweet-about-el-chapo-and-border-wall/news-story/bc8a20776c9145e50c0c774cfa325d60

              • RedLogix …
                16 February 2019 at 12:35 pm

                The logic of some people defeats me. Because a border can be tunneled underneath, this means we shouldn’t have a border? It’s like saying that seat belts don’t save all car accident victims, therefore we should bother with them.

                The mere fact that drug smugglers had to go to all the trouble to dig a tunnel suggests the fences above were in fact serving a purpose as the first layer of the defense. Then you have the police to detect the tunnels; or video/infra-red/sound/vibration sensors that can assist.

                Or other police who specialise in drugs/people trafficking and work back to the sources.

                Then you have layers of detection well behind the actual border; an obvious one being more efficient means to manage people who choose to illegally over-stay their visa.

                A border is way more than just Trump’s cartoonishly simplistic wall, but the entire conversation has been derailed by equally simplistic opposition to it.

                • marty mars …
                  16 February 2019 at 1:13 pm

                  You’ll spend so much time and money on a fantasy of protection and security – silly stuff imo. The wall is just the extreme outward presentation of the silliness.

                  • RedLogix …
                    16 February 2019 at 1:35 pm

                    There are deep psychological roots to this discussion. Each one of us has a different level of openness to new experience that is fairly hard-wired into us for good evolutionary reasons.

                    Strangers represent a Darwinian problem. Outsiders represent threat in many different ways; they may be dangerous and warlike, they may be dominant and greedy, they may bring disease unwittingly. Those of us who were too willing to welcome strangers into their house were subject to these risks and often did not survive.

                    Equally strangers also represent opportunity; new information, new ideas, fresh genes, trade and expansion. Those of us who closed their doors and erected walls too high would in time stagnate and perish for lack of progress.

                    There are almost only two human archetypal stories; a man goes on a journey and a stranger comes to town. Both are tales of danger and victory. Not all the characters survive.

                    As a result modern humans are a genetic mosaic, some of us open to newness, others much less so. And in this our vulnerabilities and our resilience are all bound up together, two sides of one coin. At a social scale we express these as walls and fences around our homes, towns and cities have boundaries, we tend to link place with our identity, and gather our communities into locations where we can mutually support each other.

                    Borders serve a deep human purpose, yet in the extremes of both totally open and totally closed … they always fail.

                    • marty mars …
                      16 February 2019 at 1:46 pm

                      whew a pretty long way of saying what exactly?

                      that, “Borders serve a deep human purpose, yet in the extremes of both totally open and closed … they always fail.” so you’re against the trumps wall now?

                      In my experience people make decisions emotionally and then defend them rationally. (Not a personal attack) This is what I see you doing in regards to the wall or borders.

                    • RedLogix …
                      16 February 2019 at 2:07 pm

                      Agreed. People do have different emotional responses to the idea of borders; and I was arguing for good evolutionary reasons. In this respect it’s clear you and I have somewhat different settings, but not all that far apart really.

                      Recognising and accepting the value of this diversity is possibly the first step in determining exactly what our borders should look like, who we let in and who we keep out. Because it always will be a balance.

                      As for Trump’s big sodding wall … it always was a simplistic pitch to those Americans who would emotionally respond to it. In that respect it’s not only ineffective by itself, but deplorable, dishonest politics. But that always was Trumps special genius, exploitation of the emotional weaknesses of the rubes he targets.

                      But if the left’s response is to sneer at that 42% of voters who have emotionally committed to the idea of a stronger border … their natural response is to fight back. Alternatively if we said “let’s build a smarter, more intelligent border, one that allowed us to defend the value of US citizenship, while minimising crime and exploitation, and allowing us flexible humanitarian responses when it’s called for” …. then I’d hope for better results.

            • joe90 1.5.2.1.1.2
              16 February 2019 at 2:11 pm

              Opposition now means blocking and preventing any constructive solutions simply for the sake of it.

              All Bubba’s fault, apparently.

              A corollary of the delegitimisation of modern-day presidents has been the legitimisation of the politics of no, an oppositional approach whereby constitutional checks and balances have come to be used as vetoes and blockades.

              This again can be traced back to the Clinton years. Bob Dole, the Republican’s leader in the Senate, deployed the filibuster more frequently than his predecessors to stymie Bill Clinton’s legislative agenda. Newt Gingrich, the first Republican House speaker since the early-1950s, used government shutdowns as a political weapon.

              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47164909

              • RedLogix …
                16 February 2019 at 2:26 pm

                That link is an extra good read. A lot of interesting detail and events I’d quite forgotten.

  2. ScottGN 2
    16 February 2019 at 7:54 am

    I guess John Armstrong would know, after all he was one of the media hacks hunting down Cunliffe and then Little. It’s a shame he didn’t use this opportunity to take some responsibility for that.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-media-script-requires-bridges-end-up-dog-tucker

    • Anne 2.1
      16 February 2019 at 9:41 am

      Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! He was one of the carnivores who set upon Labour leaders with teeth bared and in particular he went for David Cunliffe’s hide. And here he is, whinging and sniffing when his preferred party’s leader gets the same treatment.

    • Sanctuary 2.2
      16 February 2019 at 10:35 am

      Armstrong’s hubris is incredible.

      When people talk about the “arrogant fake news MSM,” Armstrong’s piece is almost the exact description of what they referring to.

      Arrogant and fake because journalists apparently have a collective agenda which is excused because they he thinks they are all so fucking stupid that they have to rely on a hive mind.

      Hubristic because he massively over-estimates the importance of the MSM in public perception of politics. For better or worse, social media has now usurped much of the ability of the traditional MSM to set the agenda in the public mind.

      Armstrong was a self-important horse race political reporter who was so reliably tame that he could be safely fed insider info and leaks with a guarantee of predictable results.

      His day is gone.

      • Sacha 2.2.1
        16 February 2019 at 11:00 am

        Armstrong is another silly old man who needs to stop flapping his gums and get out of the way. What an embarrassing decline of a long career.

      • Observer Tokoroa 2.2.2
        16 February 2019 at 11:50 pm

        The problem with Armstrong

        Always a mean difficult man, John Armstrong seems to have developed strange mental streaks when it comes to political issues.

        Worse still, is his willingness to destroy his prey – like an animal.

        However, The Herald keeps him on. Probably because the Herald is about Money. Not about People or Society.

        Armstrong and the Herald are Twins. Totally Objectionable

    • alwyn 2.3
      16 February 2019 at 10:43 am

      I would be willing to make a small wager that Bridges as National Leader will outlast one on the main bastions of the MSM in New Zealand.
      Simon will still be in his job when the Dom/Post stops publishing for good.
      I know a few people who continue to get it, but only a few and even then it seems to be just a habit. Inertia rules it would seem.

  4. Cinny 4
    16 February 2019 at 11:35 am

    Had a quick chat with beautiful ‘O’ yesterday.

    She was a journalist in Venezuela before moving to NZ, she’s lived here for around 30 years; and is in touch with friends and family over there and a very clued up lady.

    Asked for her thoughts on what is happening over there….

    There is a massive divide in wealth, drug lords, obscenely wealthy politicians, business people, heads of churches and then there is the rest of the population who live in profane poverty.

    The rich refuse to recognise any poverty as it might disrupt their lifestyle. Hence the uprising re Maduro and Maduros continued motivation to rule.

    She stressed the importance of the massive oil and mineral wealth over there. She is a wise woman and wouldn’t say anything flippantly, what she said next would have been well thought out… she believes the events in Venezuela could well be the start of a world war.

    All of the countries running to support either Maduro or Guaido are only interested in Venezuelas wealth, and not the welfare of the Venezuelan people.

    She backs neither Maduro or Guaido. Guaido’s ties with the USA should be of concern to all those backing him and Maduros greed has ruined the country.

    The aid offered by the USA is nothing more than a marketing ploy.

    She loves Venezuela, but said it’s like nothing has changed, media is being shut down making it difficult for people to hear the truth.

    Said she experienced the same when living there, her publications would go missing rather than reaching the people who needed the information the most.

    Misinformed people make misinformed decisions.

    The massive interest USA is showing in Venezuela should be of major concern to all.

    She would love to return there and help the people, but fear prevents her. Extreme poverty, being unable to afford food for ones family, makes an ordinary person do terrible things. She’s been on the receiving end before, mugged etc.

    Said to her there are people in NZ following the crisis who are on the side of those suffering. IE some of us here on TS.

    Next time I see her, hoping we can have a longer chat, unfortunately I was pressed for time.

    • greywarshark 4.1
      16 February 2019 at 12:06 pm

      That is an interesting anecdote from someone experienced and knowledgable, and explains more than a simple news report. Thanks for that.

    • One Two 4.2
      16 February 2019 at 12:20 pm

      Thanks for sharing that, Cinny….

      Wealthy ‘elite’ from all walks of life, nationality and ethnic make-up, have more to protect on behalf of each other, than the majority…and history says they will support each other and will continue to sacrifice the masses to maintian their ‘position’..

      The circumstances as described by your friend , is business as usual…

      Beware ‘leaders’…. of all and every persuasion …

    • RedLogix 4.3
      16 February 2019 at 12:20 pm

      Thank you. I really enjoy reading this kind of informed comment.

      Venezuela touches on two themes important to the world at the moment; the extremes of wealth and poverty and the wretched failure of the conventional, ideological socialist response to it.

      Accepting that Maduro’s heart was in the right place, we can only deplore the utter incompetency and greed of how his govt has set about it’s agenda. It represents a body-blow to the left’s moral legitimacy when the outcome is yet another catastrophe.

      Maduro has only lasted this long because both Russia and China have backed him this far. And we have to accept Guaido is probably no saviour either; I agree his links to the USA are worrisome and suggest an agenda that is not yet revealed.

      It is the kind of toxic stew we’ve seen before.

      • adam 4.3.2
        16 February 2019 at 4:04 pm

        I’m so over idiots like Redlogix telling lies about how socialist the Venezuelan economy is.

        Here the real kick, France has a more socialist economy. And because you lack facts and any touch on reality, oil was nationalised in 1976 by a Christian Democrat Rafael Caldera Rodriguez.

        The fact is the government like ours has put all it’s eggs ibn two baskets oil and coffee – and when the price of those fell so did the economy. Something which has happened before in Venezuela – actually more than once. MMMMMmmmm wonder what other country has fallen for that one.

        You like all your hard right loony mates are telling lies. It’s sad and sickening. And I’m really over having to point it out every time Venezuela is brought up.

        • RedLogix 4.3.2.1
          16 February 2019 at 6:37 pm

          There are plenty of nations that depend on oil, or coffee for their economic engines. Saudi is the obvious one for oil, and Brazil, Colombia, Vietnam, and Indonesia are all bigger coffee producers. While they may not be booming right now, they certainly haven’t utterly collapsed in any comparable fashion as Venzeula.

          Nor was it the socialism per se that is the problem, as you say plenty of other nations that successfully run socialist programs alongside their capitalist economies.

          The problem with Venezuela is that it went about it so incompetently, nationalising industries and then getting rid of all the capable managers, price controls that only ever made those industries unprofitable, and uncontrolled money printing that ensured 15,000% inflation levels. Not to mention endemic corruption and greed that went unchecked.

          There are no examples of successful pure socialist economies, yet Chavez and Maduro plowed into revolutionary reform as if this didn’t matter. This is what happens when you get zealots in charge; they believe their single minded ideals will solve all the problems of the world, and when they don’t they blame everyone and everything else for their ‘bad luck’.

          • adam 4.3.2.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 8:06 pm

            So what if they did it bad. It’s their country. But a lot of people have homes, have lives and have their health because of the bolivian revolution. It’s not perfect, but so what – it’s their country. All I’m seeing is people like you blaming them for a complicated situation, and promoting war – because of the lies you spin.

            The government has a lot of support, more than the opposition – because the opposition are just that bad. They are not trusted, and the are murders – they burn people on the streets.

            That said, neo-lib ideologies have screwed this country – but no one is saying we should be invaded. No one is announcing themselves prime minister and trying to start a war.

            It’s B.S. to blame them alone. The corporation and the US empire have been trying to kill the Bolivian Revolution from the start.

            • RedLogix 4.3.2.1.1.1
              16 February 2019 at 8:15 pm

              Consider then North Korea and Iran, both nations that have had tough sanctions in place for many years, and while neither are flourishing happy places, they aren’t the crippled basket cases Venezuela has become.

              Sure it may well be their country, and you can blithely maintain they can fuck it up all they want. But when millions start to flee the country and become a problem to the region … the game changes.

              • adam …
                16 February 2019 at 9:22 pm

                As a percentage more kiwis have left NZ under neoliberalism.

                Are you advocating war here? Are you advocating wholesale invasion or sparking off a civil war?

                Both North Korea and Iran have brutal dictatorships, which Venezuela does not have. It’s a democracy, and the price you pay for democracy as some people can stuff with it.

                As I said, both the US and elites internally have been stuffing with the economy. Your argument is the same bullshit one that Gossy runs with, a blind eye at external influences.

                At least you backed off the lies you started with.

                • RedLogix …
                  16 February 2019 at 9:34 pm

                  As a percentage more kiwis have left NZ under neoliberalism.

                  I’m quite aware of the neo-liberal impact on NZ thank you, I lived through it. And as one of those who has taken the chance to work elsewhere in the world (albeit rather late in life) I’m vividly conscious of what the impact was.

                  But there is almost zero comparison between people like me leaving NZ because we have a positive choice to do so, and the millions fleeing Venezuela out of desperation, hunger and fear.

                  Yes the Venezuela story is complex, with many actors and agendas. No question the USA has played it’s own part; but it’s my view that if Chavez and Manduro had not fucked up so badly none of that would have mattered so much.

                  • adam …
                    17 February 2019 at 12:41 am

                    Your nothing but a ideological hack. Who hates people trying to have power over their own lives, just be honest with yourself.

                    As for the whole fleeing thing, it’s a beat up. Not everyone leaving Venezuela is fleeing. As a percentage it’s small.

                    As for ‘positive choice’ how much more newspeak can you get…

                    I just knew I shouldn’t have bothered with you.

                    I won’t bother again, unless you start lying again. At that point I’ll treat you just like the other hard core idelogical tosser, Gosman.

                    • RedLogix …
                      17 February 2019 at 9:26 am

                      Last year I worked in Panama over a six month period; one of my closer colleagues was Colombian whose home town is Cienaga, reasonably close to the Venezuelan border.

                      So when unbidden he talks to me of the dozens of refugees passing his relatively quiet and off the main route home every day (which must represent a small fraction of the total numbers) …. then I have first hand information telling me this refugee crisis is probably not a beat up.

                      Then there is what the UN is saying about this:

                      https://www.undispatch.com/venezuela-is-a-refugee-crisis/

                      I place myself firmly as a moderate left winger; although on the classic political compass I’m absolutely middle on the social/liberal axis and strongly left on the economic axis. I’ve done this test a number of times over the years and the results have been very consistent.

                      At this point I thought maybe I’ve become more conservative in recent months so I took it again just now; and much to my surprise I’ve drifted toward the libertarian end a bit; scoring -7.5 Left/Right and -3.9 Authoritarian/Liberal.

                      This maps me firmly to the left of the NZ Green Party.

                      https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2017

                    • adam …
                      18 February 2019 at 11:23 am

                      The problem with you Redlogix your just another pointless war monger.

                      When hundreds of thousands people start dying, just remember you smug comments.

                      You say some site says your left wing, worst joke ever.

    • Macro 4.4
      16 February 2019 at 12:34 pm

      Thanks Cinny – I haven’t commented on the situation on here before because I felt that much of the commentary on here was very ill-informed,. It has been helpful to learn that unfortunately both sides are as corrupt as the other. I suspected as much.
      What we can do about it I have no idea. The call for a fair and open election has some benefit – but I doubt that such a thing could actually happen in the present climate. And even then, replacing one corrupt person with another!?

      • greywarshark 4.4.1
        16 February 2019 at 1:37 pm

        And with a corrupted regime employed to help run the country – how can the elected one and party turn the background work force to a different compass point?

    • Cinny 4.5
      16 February 2019 at 2:17 pm

      Was super grateful to her for sharing, must ask if she can recommend a media outlet re Venezuela situation.

      It’s often worth while chatting to strangers or helping people.

      One day at the shop, her eftpos declined, which bothered me as she is an ‘oldie’.

      Rather than embarrassing her in the shop, I approached her outside to ask if she needed some help.

      She freaked out on me, thought I was trying to mug her (my gardening clothes and her life experiences wouldn’t have helped lolz).

      We’ve been friends ever since, shes a bit of magic that lady.

      Anyways, keep your eyes on Venezuela, Winston is correct in not choosing sides on the crisis at present.

    • patricia bremner 4.6
      16 February 2019 at 2:41 pm

      Cinny Thanks An interesting read.

    • adam 4.7
      16 February 2019 at 4:24 pm

      One: Maduro is not that powerful. He really isn’t and anyone who thinks he is blowing wind out of their ass. He’s an idiot who relied on oil and coffee as the basis to run an economy – he not alone being an idiot on that – the world is full of idiots who think they understand economics.

      Two: The free press is real – the Catholic press which is heavily critical of the the Maduro led government can and still publishes. It also calls for new elections. It’s not being blocked nor is it going missing.

      Three: Poverty is real in Venezuela, the Bolivarian Revolution was an attempt to deal with this poverty. A social democratic revolution – to provide universal housing, health care and education. It hit a snag when the economy stumbled with falling commodity prices. But rightly or wrongly the current government is still trying to push it through. One part of it is providing basic food stuffs for the poor.

      Four: The USA is creating hell with it’s economic warfare and terrorism. In particular it is causing massive suffering in exactly the same way with which ripped the guts out of Iraq – by the blockade of medicine. Humanitarian my ass.

      Does the Maduro government have some idiots in it – indeed. Is it completely corrupt – nope. Is their corruption – sure is. But to think that a democratically elected government should be treated with contempt and be overthrown by outside forces is anti-democratic at best – smug white elitism at worst.

      • David Mac 4.7.1
        16 February 2019 at 6:31 pm

        Coffee?

        2017 Exports

        Mineral fuels including oil: US$26.6 billion (91% of total exports)
        Organic chemicals: $532.6 million (1.8%)
        Iron, steel: $350.8 million (1.2%)
        Ores, slag, ash: $333.4 million (1.1%)
        Aluminum: $327.5 million (1.1%)
        Fertilizers: $173.9 million (0.6%)
        Fish: $151.6 million (0.5%)
        Inorganic chemicals: $135.8 million (0.5%)
        Copper: $60.3 million (0.2%)
        Plastics, plastic articles: $60.1 million (0.2%)

        The above categories account for 98.3% of Venezuela’s total exported goods by value.

        Free Press? There are 1000’s of stories that highlight a media that is far from free.

        Maduro not powerful? He is Commander-in chief of a military force with over 350,000 personnel.

        • adam 4.7.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 7:48 pm

          FFS David MAc are you deliberately avoiding history? Historically Venezuela relied on coffee as a primary export. It failed. Do I have to explain everything to you dumbass. You pointed out your self 91% of exports are oil, so when the US empire decides to stuff you on this, your in trouble.

          Good try at a whataboutism.

          As for power, if you think Maduro can tell the military to do anything he wants – you are a dumbass.

          • David Mac 4.7.1.1.1
            17 February 2019 at 7:41 am

            You said Maduro’s economy depended on coffee, that industry was crippled long before Maduro sat in the big chair. Rather than the market, the government set the prices growers would receive and drove it into the ground.

            Maduro is surrounded by ‘Yes Men’ those opposing his military wishes would do so at their peril.

            Whataboutism? I am directly addressing the points you made.

            I’m happy for you to consider my views wrong Adam, you don’t need to explain anything to me. I think you’re looking at the situation through Adam tinted glasses, seeing what you want to see.

            • adam 4.7.1.1.1.1
              18 February 2019 at 11:21 am

              Another pointless war monger.

              When hundreds of thousands people start dying, just remember you smug comments.

      • francesca 4.7.2
        16 February 2019 at 6:52 pm

        Yes Adam
        my understanding is that the newspapers tend to belong to white elites and the major 3 TV channels that most people watch are not govt mouthpieces and are privately owned .

        https://consortiumnews.com/2019/02/15/how-much-of-venezuelas-crisis-is-really-maduros-fault/

        • Cinny 4.7.2.1
          16 February 2019 at 11:34 pm

          Primo link Francesca, thanks.

          The three main TV channels are Venevisión, Televén, and Globovisión.

          Have heard Globovision mentioned many times on Al Jazeeras The Listening Post.

          Globovisión have to watch what they say currently because the Minister of Information has delayed the review of their license.

          It’s owned by an elite Latino, made his money from insurance,

      • Cinny 4.7.3
        16 February 2019 at 11:48 pm

        Adam,

        Maduro has said he is happy to have elections this year, currently they are scheduled for 2020.

        Problem is Guaido doesn’t want to.

        Whether Maduro is useless or not, Guaido’s response speaks volumes, dodgy AF.

  5. mosa 5
    16 February 2019 at 12:15 pm

    Seems the masive labour shortage in the fruit industry is becoming a problem for the growers.
    That is not surprising considering National flooded the country with cheap labour and now the tap has been turned off.
    Maybe a rethink is needed in the conditions offered up for to attract people to work in the industry.
    In the meantime they will hold out their hands for a government subsidy.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/02/why-is-labour-subsidising-bad-employers.html

  6. greywarshark 6
    16 February 2019 at 12:30 pm

    The seething feeding frenzy that is often our journalism seen now – is that the future? Joseph Cederwall discusses this on Scoop.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1902/S00066/the-end-of-objectivity-in-journalism.htm

    Consolidation of journalism looks set to continue unabated as larger media conglomerates swallow up smaller players globally. We also appear to be witnessing the death throes of the concept of ‘objective’ truth in journalism. However, perhaps that is not at all as bad as it sounds, and we are just finally waking up to the reality that it never really existed in the first place.

  7. Koff 7
    16 February 2019 at 12:32 pm

    Thousands of schoolkids out demonstrating in Britain yesterday (their Friday) about inaction on climate change. These demonstrations are ramping up after Swedish Greta Thunberg’s initiative. How about NZ? Not even a jot in the media about it and no schoolkids here out on the streets.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/15/children-climate-inaction-protests-uk

  8. greywarshark 8
    16 February 2019 at 12:34 pm

    Housing proponents; tiny house proponents – Auckland, April conference. Don’t miss last year’s Carterton one was a sell-out apparently.
    http://community.scoop.co.nz/2019/02/tiny-house-conference-coming-to-auckland-in-april/

  9. One Two 9
    16 February 2019 at 12:54 pm

    A Rationale for Biologically Based Exposure Standards for Low Intensity Electromagnetic Radiation

    EDITORS:

    Cindy Sage, MA, Owner
    Sage Associates
    Santa Barbara, CA USA
    Full Member. Bioelectromagnetics Society

    David O. Carpenter, MD
    Director, Institute for Health and the Environment
    University at Albany
    Rensselaer, New York USA
    CONTRIBUTING AUTHORS

    Prof. Jitendra Behari, PhD
    Bioelectromagnetics Laboratory
    School of Environmental Sciences
    Jawaharlal Nehru University
    New Delhi, India

    Prof. Carlo V. Bellieni, MD
    Neonatal Intensive Care Unit
    University of Siena
    Siena, Italy

    Igor Belyaev, Dr. Sc.
    Cancer Research Institute
    Slovak Academy of Science
    Bratislava, Slovak Republic

    Carl F. Blackman, PhD
    Raleigh, North Carolina USA
    Founder, Former President and Full Member, Bioelectromagnetics Society
    *opinions expressed are not necessarily those of his employer,
    the US Environmental Protection Agency

    Martin Blank, PhD Associate Professor (ret.)
    Dept. of Physiology. College of Physicians and Surgeons
    Columbia University, New York USA
    Former President and Full Member, Bioelectromagnetics Society

    Michael Carlberg, MSc
    Department of Oncology
    Orebro University Hospital
    Orebro, Sweden

    Zoreh Davanipour, DVM, PhD
    Friends Research Institute
    Los Angeles, CA USA

    David Gee, Senior Advisor
    Science, Policy, Emerging Issues, Integrated Environmental Assessment
    European Environmental Agency
    Copenhagen, Denmark

    Adamantia F. Fragopoulou, PhD
    Department of Cell Biology and Biophysics
    Faculty of Biology, University of Athens
    Athens, Greece

    Prof. Yury Grigoriev, MD
    Chairman, Russian National Committee
    on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection
    Moscow, Russia.

    Prof. Kjell Hansson Mild, PhD
    Umeå University, Dept of Radiation Sciences
    Umeå, Sweden
    Former President and Full Member (emeritus), Bioelectromagnetics Society

    Prof. Lennart Hardell, MD, PhD
    Department of Oncology
    Orebro University Hospital
    Orebro, Sweden

    Martha Herbert, PhD, MD
    Pediatric Neurology
    TRANSCEND Research Program
    Massachusetts General Hospital
    Harvard Medical School
    Boston, MA USA

    Prof. Paul Héroux, PhD
    Department of Epidemiology, Biostatistics and Occupational Health
    McGill University Faculty of Medicine, and
    Department of Surgery, InVitroPlus Laboratory
    Montreal, Quebec
    Canada

    Prof. Michael Kundi, PhD med habil
    Institute of Environmental Health, Medical University of Vienna
    Vienna, Austria
    Full Member, Bioelectromagnetics Society

    Prof. Henry Lai, PhD (emeritus)
    Department of Bioengineering
    University of Washington
    Seattle, Washington USA

    Prof. Abraham R Liboff, PhD, Professor Emeritus
    Department of Physics, Oakland University
    Rochester Hills, Michigan
    Full Member Emeritus, Bioelectromagnetics Society

    Ying Li, PhD
    McGill University Health Center
    Department of Surgery, InVitroPlus Laboratory
    Montreal, Quebec
    Canada

    Prof. Lukas H. Margaritis, PhD
    Department of Cell Biology and Biophysics
    Faculty of Biology, University of Athens
    Athens, Greece

    Henrietta Nittby, MD, PhD
    Department of Neurosurgery
    Lund University Hospital
    Lund, Sweden

    Bertil R. Persson, PhD, MD h.c.
    Department of Neurosurgery
    Lund University Hospital
    Lund, Sweden

    Gerd Oberfeld, MD
    Public Health Department
    Regional Government Office Land Salzburg
    Salzburg, Austria

    Dr Iole Pinto, PhD
    Director, Physical Agents Laboratory
    Tuscany Health and Safety Service
    Siena, Italy

    Paulraj Rajamani, PhD
    School of Environmental Sciences
    Jawaharlal Nehru University
    New Delhi, India

    Prof. Leif Salford, MD, PhD
    Professor and Chairman
    Department of Neurosurger
    Lund University Hospital
    Lund, Sweden

    Eugene Sobel, PhD
    Friends Research Institute
    Los Angeles, CA USA

    Amy Thomsen, MPH, MSPAS, PA-C
    Research Associate
    Pinole, CA USA

    • DJ Ward 9.1
      16 February 2019 at 2:53 pm

      I would like to read what it says as its an interesting topic but I’m getting ” cannot open page because too many redirects”

      Maybe the EMF spectrum is too saturated with signals.

      • One Two 9.1.1
        16 February 2019 at 4:05 pm

        https://bioinitiative.org

        Maybe the EMF spectrum is too saturated with signals.

        https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(18)30221-3/fulltext

        Planetary electromagnetic pollution: It is time to assess its impact

        December 2018: The Lancet

        As the Planetary Health Alliance moves forward after a productive second annual meeting, a discussion on the rapid global proliferation of artificial electromagnetic fields would now be apt.

        The most notable is the blanket of radio frequency electromagnetic radiation, largely microwave radiation generated for wireless communication and surveillance technologies, as mounting scientific evidence suggests that prolonged exposure to radio frequency electromagnetic radiation has serious biological and health effects.

        However, public exposure regulations in most countries continue to be based on the guidelines of the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection1
        and Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers,2
        which were established in the 1990s on the belief that only acute thermal effects are hazardous

    • Bazza64 9.2
      16 February 2019 at 5:17 pm

      One Two, an alternative reading of your post can be found at http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org Picking Cherries in Science: The Bio-Initiative Report. It shows that exposure to these EMF fields is harmless for everyday encounters with EMF. i.e computer & cellphone use. Only in cases of electric shock or extreme heating of tissue are any health problems caused.

    • Bazza64 9.3
      16 February 2019 at 5:46 pm

      The initial Bio-Initiative report was self published on-line in 2007, without peer review, and that’s not a great look if you want good science. In 2008 the Health Council of Netherlands reviewed the Bio- I report & described it as unbalanced & that it made false claims.

      The Australian Centre for Radiofrequency Bioeffects Research stated that the Bio-I report was not an objective & balanced reflection of the current state of scientific knowledge.

      Many other major organisations had the same criticisms of the report (European Commission EMF NET, German Fderal Office for Radiation Protection, & on the list goes)

      The latest Lancet Article claims are obviously new, but I wonder if this has been peer reviewed before publication?

      • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.1
        16 February 2019 at 7:56 pm

        The recent 2-page comment (so not peer reviewed) in the Lancet reports a roughly ‘19 orders of magnitude‘ increase (since the 1940s) in typical maximum daily exposure to 1 GHz radiation (see Figure).

        Given that there’s much we don’t understand about neurodevelopment, “regulating use of wireless devices by children” would seem to be a sensible precaution.

        • Bazza64 9.3.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 8:36 pm

          Caution may be warranted, but I think it would be best to wait for a peer review, especially given the totally unrealistic claims made in the earlier report.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.1.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 8:51 pm

            It’s a clever global experiment. The ‘materials and methods’ have resulted in increased exposure to anthropogenic radiation, now we await the results.

            A limitation is that we may not yet possess the analytical tools and theoretical frameworks necessary to collect and fully analyse the ‘data’, let alone the socioeconomic motivation.

            But the Rowland-Molina hypothesis was strongly disputed by representatives of the aerosol and halocarbon industries. The chair of the board of DuPont was quoted as saying that ozone depletion theory is “a science fiction tale…a load of rubbish…utter nonsense“.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol

            • Bazza64 9.3.1.1.1.1
              16 February 2019 at 9:11 pm

              That may well be true, but the Bio-Initiative report of 2007 probably would have a got a D- at best if it was awarded a grade. Anything written by this group needs to be taken with a large grain of salt until generally accepted by the scientific community (meaning its findings have to be backed by evidence & not jumping to conclusions as they seemed to do, looked very much like scare mongering)

  10. mosa 10
    16 February 2019 at 1:26 pm

    Finally some hope for outlawing some rodeo practices that torture animals.
    I hope Labour back this bill and send the message that we have to change our animal welfare practices.
    They were certainly timid in their approach to the animal welfare act that needed an overhaul.
    This from Scoop.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1902/S00120/bill-aiming-to-ban-rodeo-cruelty-welcomed-by-safe.htm

  11. greywarshark 11
    16 February 2019 at 1:33 pm

    Who in the Labour-Greens-NZF is practically interested in advancing NZ by applying green solutions to farming and the environment to advance our enterprises and our land resources so we bring new ways to protect against climate extremes?

    I see Eugenie Sage has just stopped land tenure rorts on high country.
    Now what about day to day practical things with vision, on low-country, farming and horticulture relating to water – irrigation and droughts, fire prevention. Who are the stand out MPs in thinking plus doing here? What has he achieved as example?

    Damien O’Connor? Min of Agriculture
    David Parker? Min of Economic Development and Min. of Environment and Min of
    Trade as well. He should be good value but is he a talk person mainly.
    James Shaw? Min of Climate Change – He is new to executive status.
    ? Anyone else.

    I’d like to know you views soon so would appreciate a quick setting down of them.

    • RuralGuy 11.1
      16 February 2019 at 2:05 pm

      How about instead of thinking it’s the governments role to determine how I farm my land, you buy a farm and show all the farmers how you can run your farm differently and achieve better outcomes.

      There are plenty of farms available on trade me, let me know when you’ve bought one. I’m sure your ideas aren’t wacky at all, and you’ve got a bank willing to throw a few million your way.

      Until you’re prepared to put your livelihood and capital at risk, then your ideas and your opinions doesn’t matter.

      • greywarshark 11.1.1
        16 February 2019 at 2:15 pm

        Oh go jump in a lake, or a river, or a duck pond even and cool your hot head.

        • Macro 11.1.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 2:18 pm

          🙂 Now that isn’t very nice grey – as they are now nearly all unswimable!

          • greywarshark 11.1.1.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 2:52 pm

            Macro
            I am shocked that you would fall for the quick humorous jab when i have asked people for advice and I asked you in particular under a previous comment of yours.

            There are six comments under my original NONE replies to my request. Can we not get some more commitment to the left cause and people trying to do something in NZ for fellow citizens, and not keep being fascinated by orange hair elsewhere?

            If you put your time instead into saving orange orangoutangs you would be doing something more worthwhile!

            • Macro 11.1.1.1.1.1
              16 February 2019 at 3:50 pm

              Grey I’m sorry that you did not see that reply as tongue in cheek – and a reference to the pollution that farmers have been perpetuating on NZ by externalising their cost of production onto others.

              • Macro …
                16 February 2019 at 3:53 pm

                BTW I had to go out for a while hence my slow reply.

              • greywarshark …
                16 February 2019 at 4:15 pm

                Macro I’m so quick to jump – I’m nearly in the lake myself. I want to put an idea forward and want to know how a left thinker would prioritise the MPs I put. James Shaw, David Parker, Damien O’Connor.

                what about day to day practical things with vision, on low-country, farming and horticulture relating to water – irrigation and droughts, fire prevention. Who are the stand out MPs in thinking plus doing here? What has he achieved as example?

                James Shaw and his Zero Carbon Bill. Okay that is good but not yet passed and I guess would take time to get running effectively. Needs implementation of practical and theoretical methods to mitigate carbon. What would it do with water – stop irrigation? Introduce drip feeding as Israel did when they ‘made the deserts bloom’ as once quoted.?

                Patricia – you mention Damien’s hard work on myco… But it isn’t dealing with water and drought resistance and so on – that’s what I am looking at. What new ideas, old ones revisited, has he tried or referred to even?

                As you say foreign trade comes to mind with Parker.

                Tax redits for wetland establishment is an idea that forward-looking tax practitioners and thinkers might have on the cusp. But tax people tend to be dry, not wet aren’t they? Hah.

                Any more comment would be welcome.

                • Macro …
                  16 February 2019 at 4:21 pm

                  I think you should put the idea to Eugene. That is the area she is very involved with, and has been for years.
                  From her wiki page:

                  Sage was a field officer and spokesperson for Forest and Bird[2] before being elected as councillor for the Selwyn-Banks Peninsula Regional Constituency of Environment Canterbury at the 2007 elections.[3] She lost her seat when the Environment Canterbury Council were replaced by Commissioners on 1 May 2010.[4]

                  In October 2010 she was appointed as a community member to the Selwyn-Waihora Zone Water Management Committee of Canterbury Water Management Strategy (CWMS).[5]

                  • greywarshark …
                    16 February 2019 at 4:40 pm

                    Macro – thank you also Patricia
                    I am thinking of the bible caution – ‘By their fruits you shall know them’ when I think of Eugenie Sage. I noted with caution, when Sage suggested as a way of limiting rubbish that fees should be put up at Council rubbish depots. I thought that this was an impractical way of dealing with things and I do like well-thought out ideas as to whether they serve the ordinary person. So she did not come to mind as a top person to approach with this present idea I have.

                    I am looking for an MP, man or woman who knows their environment, and understands faming needs, and who wants to be a problem-solver helping the rural and also the whole environment to cope better with the droughts and weather extremes we are getting.

                    Having good theories but ensuring they work in the particular conditions and to the future, which we can guarantee will have conditions harder to cope with than today and what we know from past history.

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  16 February 2019 at 6:21 pm

                  I can’t be assed arguing on open mike with rednecks who ‘put their ass on the line’ for our country every day, battling with teats…

                  But an interesting anecdote:

                  Yesterday, I got a haircut. In the barbers were half a dozen elderly, not greenie looking gentlemen.

                  “Excuse me gentlemen, if I might have a moment of your time. I just want a show of hands, who here is worried about climate change”

                  All of them, and the barbers.

                  “Who here has been able to talk about your fears surrounding climate change with their family and friends”

                  None of them, nor the barbers.

                  “Well, I don’t have any answers, but I do know if we’re all scared we need to be talking about it, and if you’re scared, you can bet your families are scared too. So I guess it’s time to start that conversation.”

                  There was a somber silence. A guy finishes paying for his cut, comes and shakes my hand.

                  “thank you”.

                  • greywarshark …
                    16 February 2019 at 6:30 pm

                    WtB
                    Thanks for the anecdote. It is counter to what I had come to think was the norm.

                    Have you checked your email box for one from TRP? I think he was going to contact you.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    16 February 2019 at 9:09 pm

                    You did that?
                    Respect, WTB.

                    • WeTheBleeple …
                      16 February 2019 at 10:56 pm

                      Yeah. I just had to know if ‘the truth is out there’. Was worried they’d hide their feelings like ‘real men’. Tried it again tonight with 3 people who all gave JK a vote for a tax break. All worried, all had not discussed fears. One tried to make jokes, weak, crumbled under scrutiny.

                      I did cover a bit of ‘slowdown stuff’ with the barber and a couple of blokes still there when I got the cut.

                      They were quite receptive.

                      The real story is, my new haircut looks fabulous.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      16 February 2019 at 10:59 pm

                      So…why are you cutting your hair?
                      A wild man would…not.

            • alwyn 11.1.1.1.1.2
              16 February 2019 at 4:21 pm

              I think you are just going to have to accept the truth of the situation.
              No one nominated any people because there aren’t any left.

              There is no-one in the Labour, Green or NZF Parties who has the slightest interest in green matters, or the development of New Zealand generally.
              In particular you will have to decide, sadly or otherwise, that the green skin of the water melon party left the room when they kicked Kennedy Graham and David Clendon out.
              There are no environmentalists or conservationists left in our current Government.

              • Robert Guyton …
                16 February 2019 at 9:45 pm

                alwyn, can you please tell me what you mean by “green matters”?
                I’m genuinely wanting to know what you mean.
                Thanks
                Robert

                • alwyn …
                  16 February 2019 at 10:05 pm

                  I mean conservation or environmental affairs.
                  I don’t mean the attitude that says we should provide unlimited attention to people who simply want to collect taxpayer benefits to which they are not entitled.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    16 February 2019 at 10:39 pm

                    “conservation or environmental affairs”?
                    Sounds like Forest & Bird crossed with DoC. Is that who you think a political party should be?

        • RuralGuy 11.1.1.2
          16 February 2019 at 4:27 pm

          My heads not hot, it’s a serious suggestion – buy a farm if you can do it better. There are plenty of opportunities.

      • patricia bremner 11.1.2
        16 February 2019 at 3:08 pm

        Rural Guy, you have a loan to buy your farm, but if your land use impinges on others water rights, or you do not follow the laws on moving stock, or using methods of farming that harm helpful insects and soil bacteria, the public and the Government have a right to ask you to change.

        If you persist in being stupidly aggressive in the face of the science of best practice, there will come a day where you will be fined or even imprisoned, just as a road user who breaks the laws of the road can be.

        You are not King of your farm. You do not make the laws, and the fact you chose to go farming does not make your opinion more valuable than the next persons. You are a citizen and bound by the law.

        One day your Insurer will ask what you are doing to mitigate fire risk/water loss on your farm. Are you going to tell that party to buy their own farm?

        Or the Bank, cognisant with the problems of climate change will ask you for your mitigation plans for your farm, and your plans for how to be profitable in the face of changed markets.

        The last Government allowed farming to dodge the effects of their actions. Those days are long gone. So learn to communicate and to be accountable.

        A give reply showing what you are currently doing, or is that a sore spot??

        • RuralGuy 11.1.2.1
          16 February 2019 at 4:22 pm

          Look at that, you have an opinion. That’s nice dear.

          You seem to think that risk management isn’t practiced on farm. All of what you’ve written happens already.

          I’ll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for the official insects inspectors. Good to know the woke left understand how food is produced.

          • Macro 11.1.2.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 4:34 pm

            And you seem to think that externalising your costs of production doesn’t matter, and that those who have to then pick up the costs shouldn’t have a say. Well they do.

          • patricia bremner 11.1.2.1.2
            16 February 2019 at 8:57 pm

            Do you patronize all the women you meet?

            Do you use roundup on your property?

            Do you realise we have already lost two thirds of our insects.

            Be as rude as you like… but we have to change.. All of us.

          • greywarshark 11.1.2.1.3
            16 February 2019 at 10:27 pm

            Are you an on-the-farm king farmer – or run one from behind a computer most of the time? You do realise but vaguely i suppose ruralguy that everything you know you learned from other people, who learned their stuff from others and so on. You haven’t reached the end of the road yet,
            there’s more to learn than what you know in your little corner with your friends no doubt as small-minded as you.

    • Chris T 11.2
      16 February 2019 at 2:31 pm

      My view is it is laughable for you to think that farmers haven’t been working on this already, for a long time.

      • greywarshark 11.2.1
        16 February 2019 at 2:46 pm

        Oh i am so happy that you RW are so clever and happy at the same time and perfectly managing as is so obvious. Everything is so, so good, there is no room to learn anything new and it is laughable to try and fit a new idea into your very full brains, or would be if you could find them to check on that.

        • Jim 11.2.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 4:57 pm

          I can see we’re Rural Guy is coming from, not sure why you think he is stupidly aggressive Patricia, when other commenters are equally or in my opinion much more aggressive.

          This site is full of people who have never farmed in a commercial farming environment , yet have all the answers, too all sorts of farming problems and say so with great confidence that if only they could explain to the stupid farmers the right way too do it, the world would be saved.

          For farmers that live and breath and understand the job, it really is irritating.

          Farming is a complex and regulated workplace, much more so than many seem too grasp.

          • WeTheBleeple 11.2.1.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 6:30 pm

            You farming superheroes… I’ve been a fisherman fencer forester horticulture viticulture dry stock… shove your milking where it don’t shine though what a shitty job. Broken all manner of records.

            Y’all think we’ve not had a life of experience cos we’re not pulling tits?

            Classic ignorant BS. I farm thus you know nothing.

            I could maybe save your farm from the audit that’s coming. But I’m thinking fuck ya, I’d rather you lose it.

            You’ll all be whining soon. The drought…

            ‘I suggest you learn to hold water on the land’ – bloody snowflake don’t know nothing…

            Really, you deserve to fail.

          • patricia bremner 11.2.1.1.2
            16 February 2019 at 9:18 pm

            Jim, It was the comments to “Go buy a farm and then you can talk”
            “think the Government should tell me how to farm” smacks of aggression.
            Suggests he thinks A. he is right
            B. he doesn’t respect others and patronizes
            C. our bleak future will require co-operation which he doesn’t seem to value.
            D. our family were farmers and miners. Opposites!!

          • greywarshark 11.2.1.1.3
            16 February 2019 at 10:38 pm

            Jim
            Farming is complex and regulated – how come the regulated can’t stay alive on their quad bikes then? Why don’t you all have roll bars set up to protect yourselves? You are irritated when we say you don’t understand something!

            This site does not think it has all the farming answers, and discusses questions with each other and any farmer who is interested in passing on stuff and learning new information and whether necessary regulations are being applied successfully and doing the task. That is the general pattern, thsough some commenter here may put forward something personal that is wrong. You have freely come here and written prejudiced generalisations.
            Anybody can do that.

            Next time pick out something definite and comment on that to demonstrate your point.

      • patricia bremner 11.2.2
        16 February 2019 at 9:05 pm

        Some farmers Chris T

      • Robert Guyton 11.2.3
        16 February 2019 at 9:05 pm

        “Do you use roundup on your property?”
        Chris – can you tell us how farmers have been working on this and where they have got to with it?
        Genuine interest.

    • Macro 11.3
      16 February 2019 at 3:44 pm

      I can’t really speak for the others but in the case of James he has been working on the Zero Carbon Bill which is to be introduced to Parliament this year.
      https://www.pce.parliament.nz/media/196427/zero-carbon-act-for-nz-web.pdf
      http://www.mfe.govt.nz/news-events/15000-submissions-zero-carbon-bill-consultation-publicly-released

      Key themes from the submissions included:

      91 per cent of respondents said they wanted a target of net zero emissions across all greenhouse gases by 2050 set in legislation now.
      96 per cent of respondents supported the establishment of a Climate Change Commission, with an advisory role to Government.
      92 per cent of respondents thought the Bill should include provisions to help New Zealand adapt to the effects of climate change

      This will be a major piece of legislation which needs to be cross party if it is to have any success and future. As James says

      Minister of Climate Change and Green Party co-leader James Shaw hopes everyone is “equally unhappy” with the final version of the Zero Carbon Bill. “I think the thing that people are going to have to realise is that it’s going to involve some compromise from everyone. No one is going to get everything that they want as a result of this process… As long as everyone’s equally unhappy, we have a chance of getting this over the line.”

      • The Minister says the Zero Carbon Bill will be a cross-party effort. “We are talking through the detail of the targets between the Government and the Opposition as we negotiate the final form of the Bill,” said Mr Shaw.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1810/S00091/the-nation-minister-for-climate-change-james-shaw.htm

    • patricia bremner 11.4
      16 February 2019 at 3:45 pm

      Greywarshark, I see Shaw has a number of large businesses now going carbon neutral, and many changing the way they operate to remove plastic from their processes.

      Farming has to consider land health and water retension, change their roundup use and stocking levels. Damien O’Connor has worked very hard on Micoplasma bovis erradication. Parker appears to be dealing with trade in an increasingly hostile environment.

      As you say Eugene Sage has delivered, regarding land use.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if tax is applied to change the use of some fertilizers, and the development of wetlands on farms is rewarded with tax credits. Others might have ideas. Cheers. Like Macro xx

      • greywarshark 11.4.1
        16 February 2019 at 6:40 pm

        Thanks Patricia you are a gem.
        I don’t think I will wait for any further responses. I have some ideas, but thought others would like to discuss. It is Saturday afternoon, they probably are enjoying it or working. No weekend break for the majority any more, with time and a half or double for the minority.

        Got to keep buying and serving in the shops. Know how to bring NZ to its knees ? Stop buying anything even for a weekend.

        Isn’t it interesting how the unconcerned RW turn every comment to their own use, it’s all about their prejudices and whining that they aren’t treated right. My country (or you townies) aren’t appreciating me.

  12. mosa 12
    16 February 2019 at 1:35 pm

    This review by ANZASW
    Aotearoa NZ Association of Social Workers
    Some proposals the government must consider ahead of Mays 2019 budget.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1902/S00118/anzasw-response-to-state-of-the-nation-report.htm

  13. mosa 13
    16 February 2019 at 1:55 pm

    Americas tough justice and how as we already knew that African Americans make up a large proportion of the prison system.
    Even minor theft can give you a life sentence without parole.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2013/11/15/jailed_for_life_for_stealing_a

    • marty mars 15.1
      16 February 2019 at 2:50 pm

      “While the report shied away from saying that climate change was definitely a factor, it said that it was “salient to consider” the role climate change played in record-breaking high-impact weather.

      “Natural variability in extreme rainfall in Australia is inherently very large, making it more difficult to discern climate change influences,” the report said.”

      what a bunch of cowards ffs if even these people cant tell the bloody truth no wonder shit all is happening.

      • Macro 15.1.1
        16 February 2019 at 4:16 pm

        Actually marty it will take quite a bit of number crunching to be able to say just how much AGW contributed to this particular event as it does with all the others. There is no doubt however that AGW exacerbated it.
        Bare in mind the exceptional storm Wellington weathered in 1968 which culminated in the Wahine disaster. While the world was even at that time warming, we would be reluctant to say that that was the direct result of CC. The severity was a result of 2 weather events which on their own would have produced severe weather colliding in the vicinity of the southern North Island. Similarly the event in North Queensland was the result of a late monsoonal wave meeting a tropical cyclone.

        • marty mars 15.1.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 4:35 pm

          I suppose I think ALL weather events are now influenced by global warming. This is manifested in the severity and frequency of events. Everything must now be used to align back to recognising and mitigating the catastrophic effects of global warming imo.

          • Macro 15.1.1.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 4:43 pm

            I agree, we are now certainly experiencing the results of humanities unfortunate experiment with the climate, and there is no doubt that it is going to get worse. The problem for scientists is, that even though they have been warning about this for years, they have this discipline that requires that what ever they say, they need to say it as precisely as possible – because if they don’t some other sod is going to “hang” them academically for it.

            • marty mars 15.1.1.1.1.1
              16 February 2019 at 4:47 pm

              I know and understand that. For me I’m over the bullshit and pretending that everything is okay – it is not okay and the sooner people actually get that the sooner things can be done. At the moment non disclosure of the actual situation and tip toeing around the facts is hindering efforts to do something.

              Anyway their way is probably the better way…

              • McFlock …
                16 February 2019 at 5:55 pm

                The floods are heart disease, and AGW is smoking.

                Was a particular heart attack caused by the person’s smoking? Maybe, maybe not – but it’s something to bear in mind when planning recovery.

                • marty mars …
                  16 February 2019 at 6:15 pm

                  I know what you and macro are saying and I think we need to talk differently. There is a direct relationship between global warming and weather events – they are interconnected eternally. I get that we don’t want to turn people off, or scare the horses – or do we? Maybe the horses need to be scared and maybe fuck the people that turn off. How long are we going to wait for everyone to get with the program? Tomorrow, next week, next year… when are we going to get serious?

                  • McFlock …
                    16 February 2019 at 6:31 pm

                    But we’ve been here before – Katrina comes to mind. We say something was caused by AGW, the fossil crowd point out the link can’t be made with certainty (and they have no confidence interval around certainty) which leaves us either lying (with which they have a field day) or stepping back from the earlier comment (with which they have a field day).

                    “Salient to consider” is pretty much all actual report writers can do. Especially if they’re funded by an Aussie govt.

                    • marty mars …
                      16 February 2019 at 6:50 pm

                      Isn’t it like being scared that the gnats will rip in when they’ll rip in anyway?

                    • McFlock …
                      16 February 2019 at 8:37 pm

                      Except they’ll be ripping in with a valid criticism in order to support their invalid denial of AGW.

                      It’s one thing for them to spin shit whichever way they want, it’s another for them to point out validly that we’re making claims that the stats can’t actually support.

                      So their next step becomes that “AGW data has been misused to falsify attribution of cause, so what else has it been misused for?”

                      Or if someone comes up with a valid point in future, the deniers say “but they were caught lying about stats that one time”.

                      And because it’s actually a valid criticism, it works better than something they just invented.

                    • marty mars …
                      16 February 2019 at 8:49 pm

                      I suppose I’ll just have to live with it.

                      I cannot see how a system wide response (global warming) doesn’t affect specific climate events within that system (flooding) even though the butterfly wings can’t be found.

                  • RedLogix …
                    16 February 2019 at 8:47 pm

                    when are we going to get serious?

                    This is how big change can happen:

                    Global petroleum giant Shell has announced it will take over German home battery company Sonnen, as part of its strategy of investing in renewable technologies.

                    Shell says Sonnen is a global leader in energy storage
                    Advocates say the takeover is a positive step for renewables
                    Sonnen is currently expanding its business north of Adelaide
                    Sonnen is an emerging player in Australia’s energy market, establishing a base at the former Holden site in Adelaide’s north to manufacture batteries for installation in homes.

                    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-16/shell-to-buy-battery-manufacturer-sonnen/10818752

                    By itself this is nothing like the silver bullet; but it is an example of what can happen when the big money end of town starts to put some serious resource into chasing the change.

                    This is an existential challenge like none other; we’ll need to throw everything at it if we stand a chance of beating this bugger.

                    • marty mars …
                      16 February 2019 at 10:06 pm

                      trust shell? – hell no!

                      In a letter sent to the company on April 4, Friends of the Earth Netherlands claims that Shell, through its corporate activities and corporate strategy, breaches its legal duty of care by causing climate damage across the globe and undermining the Paris Agreement.

                      Here are eight of Shell’s most immoral and, often, illegal corporate scandals to come to light, and why they should be brought to justice…

                      https://www.foei.org/news/these-eight-scandals-prove-shells-long-history-of-contempt-for-people-and-planet

                      I find it unbelievable that that is your example of getting serious ffs //bangs head on desk

                    • RedLogix …
                      16 February 2019 at 11:07 pm

                      I wasn’t asking anyone to trust them. If you read the link it’s quite plain where the motives lie: “This is about money … this is a business decision, this is not a moral decision.”

                      I’m not suggesting for a second Shell is ‘doing good’ here. What I am saying is that when the big money end of town get serious, they can throw resources and competent people at a problem at a scale few of us here can imagine.

                      Personally I think this is pocket change to Shell; they’re hedging their bets here. Nor would I regard Sonnen as the most obviously innovative acquisition target, unless it was just their brand recognition you were buying.

                      But ultimately their motives don’t matter if they can produce a storage technology that transforms the market.

        • Exkiwiforces 15.1.1.2
          17 February 2019 at 5:30 pm

          I fully concur with your comments Marco, it’s with these small changes to the various weather systems around world atm is a result of CC and by the time our Governments wake to the fact then I believe we maybe cross our LD (Point of No Return).

          But at the sametime I understand Marty’s anger as well, that we are acting faster a enough in CC and I the powers at be won’t act at solving CC until it’s to late.

    • RedLogix 15.2
      16 February 2019 at 3:42 pm

      My own life has been indirectly affected by this extreme weather event (albeit in a pretty minor way) so we have followed this closely.

      It’s not obviously linked to climate change in any directly provable fashion, but it’s entirely consistent with it. The impact on Townsville was immediate and dramatic, but inland there were places where 2 meters of rain fell over huge areas in 4 days. That’s hard to describe.

      Just to give some sense of the scale; the Burdekin River system at the southern edge of this event has a catchment larger than the entire South Island.

      Vast numbers of cattle have been lost, many stations will have lost all of them. This will take years to recover from, if ever.

      • Anne 15.2.1
        16 February 2019 at 5:49 pm

        It’s not obviously linked to climate change in any directly provable fashion, but it’s entirely consistent with it.

        And this is the conundrum Redlogix. People like many on this site who have specialist knowledge on the subject – either through their work or because they have a strong interest in things meteorological – are able to understand what is occurring. But the rest of the population (including the incumbent US President) has no real comprehension of CC, but many won’t own up to their lack of knowledge. Instead they jump on the ‘denial’ bandwagon and it continues to roll on gathering the uninformed in it’s wake. By the time they start to feel the full frontal effects of CC it will be too late.

      • Exkiwiforces 15.2.2
        17 February 2019 at 5:51 pm

        When I was base at RAAF Amberley many moons ago, I always did the convoys up the goat track (Bruce Hwy) in the dry season. Crossing such rivers like Burdekin and others. I remember saying to my mate at the time as we cross the lower Burdekin River bridge, I hate to see this in flood as the flood marker was at 3m’s, with river way below the bridge and at trickle.

        It’s even worst driving across from Amberley to Tindal or Townsville to the Isa and be on sometimes, driving past the various flood ways or bridges with flood markers saying to 2-3m’s with next to no water in them.

        And trying to explain the amount of water that travel through these catchments is hard to explain and especially during or after a major drought as most people think you are punch drunk 🥴.

    • WeTheBleeple 15.3
      16 February 2019 at 6:35 pm

      Thanks for that. It did seem bigger than a 50 year event but I was only born then so don’t have frame of reference. Leighton Smith the numpty muppet in NZH today saying it was not climate…

      Someone get that man a gold watch and a unit someplace quiet.

      • Robert Guyton 15.3.1
        16 February 2019 at 9:17 pm

        “Someone get that man a gold watch and a unit someplace quiet.”
        You are funny, WTB.

      • Exkiwiforces 15.3.2
        17 February 2019 at 6:20 pm

        The Flinders river where the rail bridge. The Qld Government and ARTC rebuilt that bridge higher and bigger IOT future proof it when they finally standardised the rail gauge on the Townsville to Isa Line rose 2metres above the current bridge. This river is part of what the call the Gulf Country catchment and they usually get a 1.5 to over 2m of rain during a normal wet season. I know a few ADF Ops and planning staff at higher and at Unit level have gone WTF at the seer scale of has just happened and this weather event has smashed records all over the place.

        The last big drought summit in Canberra just before Xmas, the major players at the summit have now realised or now firmly understand that CC is now major factor driving in these major weather events across Oz. There is some serious talk now at abandonment of pastoral areas where drought is happening on a more regular basis, as BOM in conjunction farmers local weather records have notice a tend between a good season and bad seasons is getting smaller. This tend is making life a lot harder across the broad be purely if you are a stock producer or even mixed cropping producer and the effects of this going to effect everyone from the farm gate to the big end of town (Banks and Corporate Farmers etc) as long term planning on the farm etc is now effectively kicked into touch.

        Some big questions are now being asked at Cotton and Rice producers (yes they do grow this in the outback) , giving farmers comp’o IOT walk off the land with at least having money in the their back pocket without the banks wanting their cut as well, which adds further stress and whole heap of other human and technical factors from the farm to the big end of town.

  16. joe90 16
    16 February 2019 at 2:48 pm

    I guess Roger Stone is paying attention.

    Russia special counsel Robert Mueller asked a federal judge on Friday to send former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort to prison for between 20 and 24 years for his conviction on multiple financial fraud charges.

    Prosecutors also urged a federal judge in Virginia to move forward with the sentencing, which could amount to a life term for the 69-year-old Manafort who less than three years ago presided over President Donald Trump’s nomination at the 2016 Republican National Convention.

    “Manafort acted for more than a decade as if he were above the law, and deprived the federal government and various financial institutions of millions of dollars,” prosecutors wrote in a court filing Friday night, adding that they agreed with a pre-sentence report filed by federal probation authorities. “The sentence here should reflect the seriousness of these crimes, and serve to both deter Manafort and others from engaging in such conduct.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/15/paul-manafort-deserves-prison-sentence-20-years-mueller-says/2881393002/

    • Brigid 16.2
      16 February 2019 at 5:32 pm

      More importantly Mueller should go to prison for 20 years for the lies he told of Iraq’s non existent WMD. There by giving the US government so called permission to murder hundreds and thousands of Iraqis and reducing the country to a hell hole.

      • Macro 16.2.1
        16 February 2019 at 10:48 pm

        Rewriting history doesn’t make it any more truthful.
        The fact of the matter was that Hussain had used WMD against not only Iran but also his own people. Had he opened up his facilities to proper inspection it would have been seen that the cupboard was now bare. The conclusions reached in then would have been very different.
        Meanwhile:

        Special counsel Robert Mueller said in a new court filing that search warrants have uncovered communications between longtime GOP operative Roger Stone and “Organization 1,” which is widely believed to be WikiLeaks.

        Mueller made the disclosure in a filing Friday arguing that Stone’s case is related to the one involving Russian military hackers who are alleged to have breached the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and personal account of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

        The communications were uncovered in search warrants executed on accounts in the investigation into Russian hackers, Mueller said.

        https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/430299-new-filing-suggests-mueller-has-evidence-stone-communicated-with

  17. gsays 17
    16 February 2019 at 4:29 pm

    Is the moon on at an odd phase or something?

    At work and home there is an ugly tension in the air.
    What would normally be tolerated or ignored is causing all sorts of aggro.
    Here on TS, Grey is getting told off by VV on Icognitos post on the Nats.

    I trust this will pass as a hot kitchen is a nasty place when tempers are frayed.

    • greywarshark 17.1
      16 February 2019 at 6:26 pm

      I am pushing the envelope gsays. Veutoviper is trying to maintain an orderly progress on the site. I am trying to get some advice and assessment of MPs so I can take an idea to the most suitable one for a project that could be important and is very timely.

      I was frustrated when I only got replies from a couple of RWs who feel a new idea about the land or farming is as annoying as a blowfly wanting to strike. But tensions and stress are going to rise as mine have, from time to time, especially if those who have concerns feel that response to problems is too slow. And those suffering the loss of hope for a life and a home will get more upset if nobody cares enough to try to improve things. I think about them a lot.

      • One Two 17.1.1
        16 February 2019 at 6:35 pm

        gw, some folks are comfortable with being lead down the garden path of incrementalism….your comments regularly indicate not so easily distracted by such conspicuous and persistent tactics…

        The frustrations you feel, are being felt by the proverbial ‘all’. Consciously or otherwise , it is being felt right along with other emotions brought about by the same indomitable issues…

        • WeTheBleeple 17.1.1.1
          16 February 2019 at 6:41 pm

          It’s a tough one GWS. I’ve been fraying round the edges a little too. It is normal to feel sad, angry, frustrated and despairing at the current situation. We can deal with the grief together. Welcome to the vanguard. Others will need us as reality sinks in.

          • greywarshark 17.1.1.1.1
            16 February 2019 at 6:51 pm

            I liked that anecdote though. I think every now and then a mood lightener?
            I hope most people like Monty Python – they were so good at taking things to the ridiculous level.

            And did trp send an email? Is it yey or nay?

        • greywarshark 17.1.1.2
          16 February 2019 at 6:49 pm

          Thanks 1-2 and 3 +

      • Jim 17.1.2
        16 February 2019 at 7:42 pm

        It’s not the new idea, it’s the way it’s presented/delivered.

      • RedLogix 17.1.3
        16 February 2019 at 7:51 pm

        For what it’s worth GW I’m entirely sympathetic toward what you’re doing here. Sorry I can’t contribute right now as I’m over-committed and don’t have the expertise your looking for.

        What I can suggest is to think of ways to turn this into an educational project with a longer term view to find ways to commercialise it. With everything you want to achieve in the world, cash flow is king. Find a way to reliably sponsor or monetise it and it will be successful.

        Package the idea in a pragmatic, can-do fashion (keep the message simple, positive and strong) and you’ll be amazed at who comes out of the woodwork to offer help. There are already many farmers on the land trying out new ideas, and they have the experience and networks that will be critical to success.

        What you’re talking about is a big idea, and a tough one to pull off, and will only work if you connect with competent people who’ve done this sort of thing before.

        Best wishes.

        • greywarshark 17.1.3.1
          16 February 2019 at 8:42 pm

          Red L
          Thanks for advice. You really stick in here. We long term people have learned a lot on the journey. I’ll talk about it if it comes off. Have got a floating plan at present.

          And I need to think about your ideas, and what Drowsy M Kram is saying too. About reducing greenhouse em. Will going by bus to family in Christchurch instead of flying be halving emissions for that?

          As for vv, she is so good on here and I and everybody appreciate her. But sometimes I have to rebel and hope that I fit the unreasonable man who causes change paradigm.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 17.1.4
        16 February 2019 at 8:35 pm

        GWS, keep up the good work, and asking pertinent questions – it is important to reiterate that urgent action is required to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions (climate change is our “nuclear-free moment”). I thought VV’s reply to your comment/request (in Incognito’s post) was a bit over the top (too authoritarian), but I have my own biases, and appreciate that keeping the site running smoothly is not a simple matter.

      • Robert Guyton 17.1.5
        16 February 2019 at 8:39 pm

        ” as annoying as blowfly ”
        This is good…

      • gsays 17.1.6
        17 February 2019 at 5:59 pm

        Hey grey, in response to yr query that led to the brouhaha, an idea I have enjoyed is for the public, en masse, to either boycott or support an oil company.
        Either on a roster, one month here one month there.

        Sticking point is, if WE were to act as one for a month, what would be on the ransom note?
        Super markets must be nicer to Hector’s dolphins….?

        • greywarshark 17.1.6.1
          17 February 2019 at 6:26 pm

          If we could do consumer boycott in that way the public would make useful points. Have to be careful these days though, making enough fuss that is carried through, without people having to be laid off because there are sure to be some relying for their living on the enterprise and them working their shift.

    • Robert Guyton 17.2
      16 February 2019 at 8:41 pm

      “Is the moon on at an odd phase or something?

      At work and home there is an ugly tension in the air.”

      Yes.

    • Muttonbird 18.1
      16 February 2019 at 11:39 pm

      Fascinating. She claims the NZ-Chinese friendship has been worked on for more than 40 years. What then happened in 1989 when the Chinese government slaughter 10,000 civilians in the streets?

    • patricia bremner 18.2
      17 February 2019 at 12:47 pm

      Kat your description of Audrey made me smile. Now we have China through a spokesperson saying some are “trying to ferment trouble for their own ends” I thought “Yes, to try to undermine our PM.” Audrey is a tired echo of the Gnats.

  19. Drowsy M. Kram 19
    16 February 2019 at 10:42 pm

    We are scared – listen to us!

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/climatechange-youth-strike/we-are-scared-listen-to-us-london-students-demand-at-climate-protest-idUKL5N20A546

    “Adults, she said, do not act on climate change because “they’re involved with their money and their work. They don’t care,” said de Wardener, who sported a polar bear hat and a hand-coloured sign reading, “Your failure, our future”.”

    “Global temperatures are on course for a rise of 3 degrees to 5 degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees to 9 degrees Fahrenheit) this century, far overshooting a global target of limiting the increase to 2C or less, the U.N. World Meteorological Organization says.

    That is bringing growing risks from extreme weather – including worsening droughts, floods, fires and storms – as well as threats of worsening hunger, poverty and water shortages, scientists say.

    Limiting those risks will require “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes” to the world’s energy systems and to human behavior, scientists said in an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report released last October.“

    “Won’t somebody please think of the children!”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

  20. Muttonbird 20
    16 February 2019 at 11:24 pm

    Dr Bryce parrots David Farrer and argues the left have fallen into a trap set by National by reading too much into the sausage ad.

    I think Farrar is in damage control. And ironically it is Edwards reading too much into so called “reverse dog whistle politics”. National aren’t that bright. I can’t believe this was deliberate.

    In reality is was a very clumsy attempt at attack advertising.

    Farrar and Edwards seem to be saying it was deliberate trolling, and a deliberate attempt to import and pour petrol on the culture wars. But that seems like a desperate and very risky strategy because we know Kiwis are turned off by such cynical baiting.

    It will be interesting to see what the next ad in the tax-payer funded series looks like. Will they double down, firming up their hard right vote? Or will they retreat to try to grow their centre vote which I’m sure will have been turned off by this sort of behaviour.

    Dr Bryce seems to think the centre love cynical politics but if you ever need to gauge his political nous just remember he thought Simon Bridges was correct when he launched the also tax-payer funded investigations into the leak of his excessive limo use…which was also tax-payer funded.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12204396

    • patricia bremner 20.1
      17 February 2019 at 12:57 pm

      Bryce Edwards is a sophisticated Gnats poodle. Where with Audrey and Soper you know where they stand Dr. Edwards presents an apparently balanced view… until one does their own research and realises he omits slants and generally weights everything to favour a right wing view. Seldom does he really criticise the right.

      He is a paid commentator… not paid by the left!!

  21. Fireblade 21
    16 February 2019 at 11:41 pm

    Sarah Dowie and the text message inquiry – what the police won’t tell you.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12204474

    • Muttonbird 21.1
      16 February 2019 at 11:50 pm

      Has all the signs of a whitewash in order to protect the National Party. An investigation which will find not fault and no blame and all the details will be forever suppressed.

      Likewise, the public will never have closure in the case of National Party donation fiddling. This was as serious, if not more serious, than the Banks/Dotcom saga which thankfully completely ruined the career of John Banks. Yet it will be swept under the carpet.

      Both these scandals will quietly be shut down because essentially the National Party is ‘too big to fail’.

      • Gabby 21.1.1
        17 February 2019 at 9:02 am

        Bet the Haddled won’t be interviewing hubby anytime soon also.

      • patricia bremner 21.1.2
        17 February 2019 at 1:06 pm

        I think like the Todd tapes which was the main reason English went, the fact Police did not proceed remained a gaul in the bark of public opinion.

        That type of gaul remains, reminding the voting public of the imperfections, the cruelties and the infighting by National.

        Nastiness cheating fudging facts and treating our democracy as an item to be purchased….. “Trust the Team?” Ha ha ha LOL LOL Hardly.

        A court case would uncover endless dirty linen, so no, that won’t be likely.

    • Gabby 21.2
      17 February 2019 at 9:00 am

      I’m surprised they haven’t lost the evidence yet.

  22. Muttonbird 22
    17 February 2019 at 12:24 am

    Well, that is settled.

    You should know that we, not a Chinese newspaper, represent the official position of the Chinese government.

    This is in direct contrast to what David Farrar has been saying that, “the article will have been approved by the Chinese Government.”

    So much for Farrar’s analysis.

    Geng continues to say in regard to supposed warnings to Chinese against travelling to New Zealand:

    Those insisting on such an interpretation are evidently either making a big fuss over nothing or harbouring ulterior motives.

    No shit, Geng!

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/382667/chinese-foreign-ministry-addresses-nz-china-relationship

  23. Muttonbird 23
    17 February 2019 at 12:44 am

    Massive shake up in the Democrats. Pretty sure Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will at some point be the victim of an assassination attempt.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/382653/amazon-decision-a-win-for-democrats-rising-left-wing

  25. Eco Maori 25
    18 February 2019 at 8:37 am

    Kia ora The AM Show The representative of the doctors from Rotorua and Hamilton hospital looked hot under the collar for one thing its nationals mess in the first place he is a national puppet + there is a budget to keep to I would say more but It would effect the service that MY WHANO get.
    simon duncan kisses your – – – he treats you and your m8 Alot better than the Coalition Government Mp,s
    As for China national shonky would have made a big mess of that. O that’s the way national grows a economy shorts our house market and flooding the land with imagination that’s is easy as counting 123 to achieve GDP growth how about something innovative like pumping up all of NZ O that’s right you don’t want to share the lollies /with Maori /minority cultures .
    I did give advice that prefab low cost housing was the best way to get cheap housing to Te tangata it was obvious to me that my nemesis in the state services would have said you cannot do that as it will give Eco Maori to much mana its not wise to build expense house in place were there are not many wealthy people like Pukekohe Auckland the people will be scared the value of the property will flat Line still shonky puppets in Minstery business and innovation deliberately making those stuff ups .
    Eco Maori say the way the housing market is rising prices at the minute is going into other place beside Auckland Wellington an Queens Town that’s spreading the risk and the lollys money to the many.
    Steven that’s correct our relationship with China is fine just a little bump in the road we just have to ride out the bumpy road till 2020 then things will settle down.
    That is why shonky filled the Pike River Mine up with concrete it was a big cover up by WHO.
    Catherine that’s a better response we fruit fly issue than the last lot they would have covered it up and when a few more were found the public get the isuses out then panic that’s what happened to the bovine virus issues we have .
    As for gentic engineer food the the executive of these multiple countries companies to stick it in their plates and eat it we don’t need it and don’t want it to smear our great food production so genitc engineering our pest will just open the doors for other things to be genitc engineering that’s how we got the pest in the first place doing things that we did not think of the consequences to that action Its obvious Le French do not have the culture to nerture some of our Kiwi stars
    That’s the way Chloe give duncan a serve he has turn Bright Red lol.
    A survey will tell what the person who runs it will give the results your are looking for data to back your views so stop turning red your letters is a total froud plane and simple froud you are giving duncan a good clean up KA PAI.

    YEA right losing weight from eating almonds only and the real problems is surgery pop drinks I see that there stocks are crashing GOOD about time that’s what you should be talking about AM Show pop drinks.
    Yes the big picture is we need a good environment to live healthy happy prosperous lives and China is backing that. Ka kite ano

  26. Eco Maori 26
    18 February 2019 at 10:13 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  27. Eco Maori 27
    18 February 2019 at 12:11 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  28. Eco Maori 28
    18 February 2019 at 12:46 pm

    This is why Eco Maori says carbon credits are rubbish like fishing quotes it is just a tool that the wealthy crooked people can cheat the common person and make billions of dollars in falsely made trades . I back a carbon tax on carbon that is given to the pruducers of clean green energy and to poor people who don’t have the money to build there clean green futures for there grandchildren.
    Residents of a coalmining region in Siberia have been posting videos online showing entire streets and districts covered in toxic black snow that critics say highlight a manmade ecological catastrophe.
    In one video, filmed in Kiselyovsk, a town in the Kuzbass region, a woman drives past mounds of coal-coloured snow stretching to the horizon, covering a children’s playground and the courtyards of residential buildings. The scenes in the footage were described as “post-apocalyptic” by Russian media.
    The coal dust that turns the snow black in the Kuzbass comes from numerous open pit mines that environmental activists say have had disastrous consequences for the health of the region’s 2.6 million people, with life expectancy three to four years lower than Russia’s national average of 66 for men and 77 for women.
    Cancer, child cerebral palsy, and tuberculous rates in the Kuzbass region are all above the national average.
    “It’s harder to find white snow than black snow during the winter,” Vladimir Slivyak, a member of the Ecodefense environmental group, said. “There is a lot of coal dust in the air all the time. When snow falls, it just becomes visible. You can’t see it the rest of the year, but it is still there.” Ana to kai Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/15/toxic-black-snow-covers-siberian-coalmining-region

  29. Eco Maori 29
    18 February 2019 at 6:46 pm

    Kia ora Newshub That’s the way the billionaire tech giants needs to pay there dues to society so everyone can have a happy life not just the top 20 % OUR Coalition Government closing the tax loopholes that let them avoid paying taxes in Aotearoa The Australian government is having some computer dramas A.
    Yes the fruit fly found in Auckland is going to be a hassle for some peoples fruit and vegetables purchasing problems.
    That photo of trump is ten years old lol.
    I say gentic engineering is working against mother nature the most successful society’s have worked with Papatuanukue not against her like we currently are doing. That poll is good news Hub it gives me hope that my Mokopunas will have a happy healthy future Ka pai.
    Ka kite ano

  30. Eco Maori 30
    18 February 2019 at 7:22 pm

    Kia ora James & Wairangi from The Crowd Goes Wild Eco Maori has already stated that Le French billionaire does not no how to nerture our Kiwi Rugby Stars Gates said they wanted A billionaire like him in Le France?
    That’s a big crash at the is it Datona 500 got the Mokopunas here I am quite a bit busy chasing them around.
    Yes that’s what it’s about the team first.
    I Heard the Australian tangata whenua Rugby Star was in Aotearoa boys. Ka kite ano

  31. Eco Maori 31
    19 February 2019 at 8:29 am

    Kia ora Newshub with NZ been off IKEAs maps it’s you scratch my back I will scratch yours There you go puncan negative brown minority culture news that’s what you floated your toilet with a small group of people making a mess in Auckland they are probley some ones ASSET and have impunity to create a mess of brown peoples MANA it’s a area that has mostly brown people .
    I don’t see what Britain giving Huawei the option to bid to install there 5 G, Has a negative look for NZ position I say it’s a good THING.
    Bullshit you are just trying to repair the GCSB & SIS credibility I no they love their pears in America everytime I put them down next minute their loud noise starts up they say jump and next minute how high SIR. Sam I Do agree that Aotearoa getting 5 G is going to EARN us billions of low carbon export income it’s very important .
    There is nothing wrong with NZ Joining the movement of making the tech billionaire pay there fair share of dues to society we were first to give Wahine the rights to vote and that would have had some push back to .
    There you go making false statements about Britain stance And making false statements about OUR position on the 5 G network there you go once again trying to spray WAI on OUR government. It is good to get the Tech company to pay more tax you see te tangata te tangata around the world are demanding it. Everyone can see your position on the Mana Wahine its fine so long as Wahine are behind a man #METOO I know it’s above your thought process to put yourself in someone’else SHOES.
    Yes some tech company’s will risk losing consumers and rise price. The tax is worth it the revenue and giving our companies a better chance at getting the contracts look at NOVA Pay The justice department and a few other government new program updates they were a big mess. If we had let locals bid & build the software and hardware for these organisations it would have been much cheaper less stressful for NZ big boy giving big kick backs that’s the way of the Papatuanukue . trump & scott are not going to be in power for long soon they will be neutered especially being climate change deniers with all the weather records being broken in there countries that they are supposed to be caring for their future but only care for their power.
    Another attempt to attack EQUALITY mark boys can be boys just don’t shit on Wahine in the process.
    If I could start a tree planting crew I would go to a four day week give the men Friday off as its usually half a day the van seats will be full 4 days a week and we would only have to a work a extra hour a day and production won’t fall it will decrease accident as fatigue would drop the men would have more time for their families less cost less less miles travelled =more profits more times to vote Some people don’t want common people to have Time to participate in our /there civic duty, s they only want the wealthy peoples opinion to get oxygen the common tangata opinions don’t count.
    Arr bullshit the the wealthy get to the cream of Atoearoa and only let the crumbs fall on the floor for the minority that’s a fact NZ income disparity has grown very fast in the west if a wealth person is charged with tax evasion they bribe the pollies to charge the laws to class that activity as avoidance and WALAR no one breaking the law here no kai falling on the floor for common people THE GREAT WESTERN culture MYTHS The trickle down effect is fool of shit. Ka kite ano

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.