Open mike 16/07/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 16th, 2023 - 94 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

94 comments on “Open mike 16/07/2023 ”

  1. All power to this woman-Marketa Vondrousova-great underdog performance and excellent acceptance interview.

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    A bit of light political entertainment for a sunday:

    It is a well-known truism that those who cannot learn from the lameness of history are doomed to be uncool forever.

    39. William Fox, 1856, 1861-1862, 1869-1872, 1873
    Confiscated nearly three million acres of Māori land then blamed them for starting the wars, which is a real dick move. Fox cemented his place as the lamest leader in New Zealand history by going on to become a strident campaigner for prohibition.

    38. Walter Nash, 1957-1960
    A boring old paper-pusher who droned on and on until he was finally shuffled out of office at age 78. His favourite colour was beige, and his biggest thrill was having an occasional gin with his orange juice. The Nash government's 'Black Budget' taxed the shit out of petrol, cigarettes, and beer, which the public was understandably Not Happy About.

    • Anker 2.1

      fun and somewhat informative. Thanks Denis.

    • tWiggle 2.2

      The reason for the Black Budget was a big drop off in NZ’s overseas income in that year, due to big dips in the price of wool and meat. Which meant NZ government had an unexpected large deficit. Which meant more taxes from somewhere to cover overseas payments.

      Better taxes go up than services go down… The electorate of beer-swilling, chimney-smoking voters didn’t agree, so out Labour went.

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    [comment with quotes but no links deleted]

  4. Dennis Frank 4

    I sent a submission in when the govt called for public input into democratic reform some years ago, advocating that the spare room be used for participatory democracy & consensus-building. Looks like Palmer has spotted that opportunity:

    He would also run extended public hearings and inquiries inside the Legislative Council Chamber (the empty upper house debating chamber). That would allow combined committees to tackle major issues and legislation and attract more public attention… the problem is the Westminster system is based on adversarial politics, we have to get away from that.

    On of his other suggestions is likely to irritate the anti-consultancy brigade:

    Palmer's vision of an empowered Parliament also includes giving Parliament more cash to buy expertise and advice.

  5. Shanreagh 5

    What would do without thinkers like Sir Geoffrey?

    And he knows his stuff, speaks from experience.

    • Dennis Frank 5.1

      I contributed to his constitutional reform process – maybe a decade back? I bought both his books about it brand new. I'm real tight on that propensity due to already owning around ten thousand. I contributed as a critic, so wasn't surprised that they didn't give me any credit in the second book. Labour, you know, credibility eternally rare.

      Not that they performed poorly, him and his sidekick. I carefully acknowledged each of the significant improvements they got right, including my framing of why it was a good idea each time. One could call that an exhibition of leftist solidarity perhaps.

      However they also made a bunch of fatal errors. In conceptualising, and also in design. Actual flaws of logic plus various false assumptions. 7/10. Maybe 7.5.

      Immaterial since the number of retards in Aotearoa remains stubbornly high, so Palmer's chances of success in his reform project shimmer like a veil of possibilities over our land…

      • Dennis Frank 5.1.1

        Further to that…

        Is the Treaty of Waitangi a contract?

        Sir Geoffrey Palmer: I wouldn’t describe it as a contract; I woulddescribe it as a compact. A contract suggests it’s an arrangement between private parties; this is a public thing, and it’s much more than a legal arrangement. It is all about good faith, it’s all about a constitutional position, much of which is not found in the law.

        A constitutional position that is not found in law can be found in ethos. This is the Deep Green view of life. Ethos is a strand in social binding that makes community.

        In my theory of neo-pythagorean metaphysics, ethos kicks in as a functional element of human groups. Using elemental analysis (to identify key elements) it becomes countable. This technique categorises systems on the basis of key elements within, essential components without which a group cannot operate ecosystemically.

        So you different unique factors in situations analysable similarly, using the generic theory. You count them to see how many there are. I recycle ancient greek terms to do that (monad, dyad, triad, tetrad, pentad, hexad, heptad for the first seven categories). The requisite conceptualising to integrate qualia with quanta in the theory comes from seeing labels as identifiers providing a unique quality to each number. The theorist must then ground this abstract system via ecosystemic relations, which requires holism to be expanded into theory.

        I've spent the past 40 years doing that legwork, but Deep Green politics must make the social function of ethos more intelligible for the purpose of developing collective resilience. That it provides political activism incorporating communal synchrony of values and aspirations. That it facilitates collaboration. That it teaches conflict resolution via consensus decision-making.

        Palmer in his academic silo are doing their best, no doubt, within the confines of their neolib belief system – but it's better to look deeper into motivations. Oh, the other dimension that it's essential to integrate into a deep green view of life is spirituality.

  6. Heather Grimwood 6

    I find it hugely enthusing to read Geoffrey Palmer's thinking on democracy, particularly his suggestions of ways to lessen workload of ministers. The latter must be obvious to any who have seen the strained faces in times of calamities during recent years.

    I agree too, that the loss of social cohesion due to the necessity of the life-saving covid-caused restrictions has been a real factor in our lives.

    Thank you Sir Geoffrey.

  7. joe90 7

    From mainstream comms platform relied on by politicians, businesses, and news outlets around the world to Nazi-infested ponzi scheme with the integrity of a crypto scam.

    Heck of a job, Elmo.


    On Thursday, Twitter said it had expanded its creator monetization fund to share more ad revenue with “creators.” Who is a Twitter creator these days? Well, some of the most politically divisive figures are making the most change in Musk’s new world order.


    So who were these exclusive, eligible accounts? Twitter paid out more than $20,000 to Andrew Tate, a self-proclaimed misogynist who has been indicted on charges of rape and human trafficking alongside his brother in Romania.

    But wait, there’s more. Ian Miles Cheong, a right-wing spin doctor who increasingly has the ear of the great overlord Musk, reported he received $16,259 on Twitter for tweets focused on subjects like fat-shaming people in TikTok videos and promoting former President Donald Trump’s Truth Social takes. Benny Johnson, a failed journalist, plagiarist, and far-right rabble-rouser, made close to $10,000. Ashley St. Clair, a Babylon Bee writer, and former mouthpiece for Turning Point USA, saw just over $7,000 hit her bank account through the Stripe direct payment app. The right-wing junk account @EndWokeness also received a payout north of $10,000.

    • Dennis Frank 7.1

      It makes you wonder why Labour has been so keen to adhere to their neolib culture, eh? They'd likely say `if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'.

      Don't hold your breath waiting for the media to go there. Users don't doubt their paradigm that easily! However we could get a rerun of Max Headroom, the suave news presenter with a glitchy verbal style, out of AI quite soon. Would be good. Imagine satirising rightists & leftists in the same episode… cool

  8. Belladonna 8

    I find that it fails to convince, when politicians (or, in this case, ex-politicians) feel moved to tell us that X has the attributes of a leader.

    If X (in this case, Luxon), is not demonstrating this himself – then all the telling in the world isn't going to change public opinion.

    Herald (paywalled)

    Archived copy

    • Tony Veitch 8.1

      Nothing more than a paid (?) political advertisement!

      And utterly unconvincing, coming from Paula Bennett!

    • Jilly Bee 8.2

      And the Herald has gone to great lengths to convince us that they're not politically biased. Yeah right.

    • Muttonbird 8.3

      Complains about attacking people not ideas, then proceeds to attack people.

    • I was tempted to write a school report reply. (Regarding Act Paula Bennet and Luxon's name calling)

      "Christopher could choose his friends more wisely and work on his social and emotional skills.'' 5/10

    • Wonderful paywall means I can't read Pullya Benefits poisonous waffle.

    • SPC 8.6

      It's a short step from calling him Lux, as Bennett does, to wondering where do pentecostals go when they rapture to watch the world suffer bowls of judgment being poured out upon the earth. Is it planet X?

      Lux is a global brand developed by Unilever

      Lux pioneered celebrity endorsements for its soap.

      Luxon (surely not chosen for his name) worked for Unilever in Canada before taking his cleanliness even closer to God, by being a bald eagle with Air NZ.

      . … Lux is marketed primarily in South Asian countries such as India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.

      So the Lux thing is a part of the campaign for the migrant worker vote?

  9. Herodotus 9

    Do we vote for a party or a leader ??

    So a party … No it’s a leader release it’s manifesto then what the party stood for under the last leader doesn’t matter, example in point climate change ?? We now have by his actions someone who doesn’t believe all he believes in is vote to win and screw the consequences. 😱 How hollow leadership we have had under labour. How the labour follows can look in the mirror ?? Disgraceful all of you

    ”This election was the first chance for him to fully set his own agenda for a better future.”you deserve less than National in 2002.

    • Jack 9.1

      Yep, while National is busy releasing policy today … Labour is busy releasing slogans.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 9.2

      Labour's 1972 election campaign slogan "It's time" can't be beaten for brevity.

      "In it for you" is arguably better, albeit wordier than "Let's do this" and "Let's keep moving", but I prefer UK Labour's failed "For the many, not the few".

      If only NAct could run on an honest slogan – "For the few, not the many".

      2005 – "Tax. Cut." – with just a dash of Iwi/Kiwi

      2008 – "Choose a brighter future [for all?]"

      2011 – "Building a brighter future [for all?]"

      2014 – "Working for [all?] New Zealand" and “Keep the team that's working

      2017 – "Delivering for [all?] New Zealanders"

      2020 – "Strong team. More Jobs. Better Economy" [the 1st team being Muller & Kaye]

      • Macro 9.2.1

        Not to forget the 2008 slogan

        "Stop waving goodbye to your loved ones"

        I'll never forget that one.

        In 2009 after winning the election National "reorganised" ACC; thereby shoving over 100 highly specialised OTs out of employment in NZ. My son-in-law was one of them, and the only work for him was in Australia, who were actively recruiting people with his expertise in after-care for people with brain injury at the time. So we waved goodbye to our loved ones. They have been there ever since, and are about to become Australian citizens. He is now managing 3 after care facilities in the Perth area.

      • Jack 9.2.2

        At least labour are being honest with half the slogan. They’ve certainly landed NZ “in it” for years to come. Rather they left me out of it with the second part of the slogan … not in my name.

        • In Vino

          Jack – it has been obvious since your very first comment that you are not here to promote the left. Please tell me something to make me believe that you even understand the socialist perspective. Or just stop commenting in such a boring manner.

        • tWiggle

          In 6 months time we'll be saying, we told ya so. If this NACT government comes in, there won't be the sinking lid approach while things degrade (Key's strategy). NACT will be a government of big change and public sector cuts, because of the ideological pull of ACT.

          Look to Britain under the Tories and Oz under LNP – Luxon's been having nice long chats with members of those governments.

          There will be degradation of public education, with funding shifted to for-profit academies and charter schools, de facto privatisation of medicine, for-profit prisons and bootcamps, privatisation of MSD services, as in CentreLink, privitisation or dismantling of ACC, gig-economy jobs with zero hours.

          NACT are creaming their knickers thinking of all the kickbacks they'll get putting those contracts in place.

          [Please correct the mistake in your email address in your next comment, thanks – Incognito]

    • SPC 9.3

      The country deserves better than a NACT government.

      But you do a return to collecting a mortgage interest deduction against rent income and selling a rental without any CGT/brightline test.

  10. newsense 10

    Janet Wilson and Andrea Vance are today’s poison pen hags! Congratulations.

    Janet calls Jacinda and Michael Wood insincere in their apology for the Dawn Raids. Then she confuses Muldoon and National’s state sponsored racist campaign against a particular minority with a state department continuing to make some after hours visits against no particular demographic.
    Showing her evil that held her close to Judith Collins.

    Funnily enough ‘Crusher’ was long touted for being tough, but goodness forbid a Labour minister may have shouted.

    Vance manages to put herself first in her column on Chippy, leaving us to wonder if she is a bigger egomaniac than the pollies. And without any complaint being filed she blames Chippy for not putting Allan in the stocks. Then, the long bow and ego working well, she considers this an example of betraying Labour’s principles somehow. Quite spectacular bullshit, which she obviously enjoyed smelling.

    His unflinching pragmatism was evident in the last few weeks when he – the leader of a party founded for workers’ rights – sided with his Cabinet Minister Kiritapu Allan over allegations she treated staff badly.

    • Belladonna 10.1

      a state department continuing to make some after hours visits against no particular demographic.

      Does this mean that you think that 'out of hours visits' (aren't euphemisms, wonderful) are acceptable?

      Carmel Sepuloni certainly doesn't appear to think that they are – under any description.

      While Vance’s piece is certainly a polemic against Labour – I doubt that Ardern, et al were deliberately hypocritical. However, I think it does indicate a tendency towards political theatre, rather than hard policy work.
      Which has come up again, and again, in the policy and legislation of the current government.

      • newsense 10.1.1

        No- as they are not, and they should be stopped. It’s also quite a mystery as to why Immigration is in MBIE in any case…

        But there is a difference between rogue miscommunication which should have been stopped and the racism in the first place.

        Yes- I bloody well agree with Carmel.

        It’s this poison tongue of a Nats coms operative whose party embody that racism ( watch them in Patu pull in to their function and ‘consider’ their protestors), that hasn’t apologised and that questions the sincerity of those who have.

        All hands to the nasty levers. Make NZ nasty again.

      • newsense 10.1.2

        Political theatre is important. Symbolism is important. The Prime Minister admitting what the state did to you and your family was wrong is important.

        What are you talking about with your bland and vapid statement that it was done instead of ‘hard policy work’ which has come up again and again?

        Compared to the opposition whose key justice conference policy was I don’t know I’ll tell you when you’ve all voted for us and I’ll have a guess. On something that has been conclusively shown to be a failure across the board?

        • Belladonna

          Well, it very clearly wasn't supported by the required detailed policy work in the Immigration department. Take a bow: Kris Faafoi (the Minister who wanted to retire); and Michael Wood (the Minister who doesn't seem to be across detail either in his private life or, as we see now, in his job),

          Political symbolism which is *not* supported by policy, ministerial direction and/or legislation – is just 'theatre' and leaves the government wide open to charges of hypocrisy.

          Saying, effectively, 'the other guys are worse' doesn't do much to inspire confidence in (or willingness to vote for), the current government.

          • newsense

            Equally just repeating your argument doesn’t make it any truer.

            I would stake the integrity of both Jacinda Ardern and Michael Wood against yours any day.

            That they are not perfect people or politicians are true. But also they are not on The Standard for whatever reason joining the National party poison pen club in calling an apology insincere, in the rather cowardly manner of attacking ‘political theatre’ in general.

            It is for the victims and recipients of the apology to deem the their satisfaction.

            So if you have a fight with your partner making assumptions- you must buy them something or any apology is insincere? It would fit the vanity of the moniker.

    • Their lack of compassion is evident. Kiri is not allowed to be upset by the destruction of her area, nor is she meant to be hurt by being in a failed relationship. She is supposed to be endlessly patient in the face of half complaints, whispers to the media and digs by the National Party DP. She is apologising for any hurt caused. Still the vicious tongues want Chippy to dismiss Kiri, as according to these founts of "information" she is not "being fair to workers". Their nastiness is clearly displayed.angry

  11. Incognito 11

    Property was seen differently by politicians, [Bernard] Hickey said.

    As if to make the point, the prime minister ruled out a Capital Gains Tax last Wednesday.

    That won't dissuade people from putting their money into houses in future – possibly boosting the size of the mortgages people are prepared to take on, even at the risk of higher repayments making them even more unaffordable.

    And on and on it goes. Everybody is banking on house prices increasing and capital gains to stay untaxed. Too bad for renters, first-home buyers and the next generation of Kiwis whose parents are not firmly established on the property ladder. Some folks suggest a death tax could be a solution – après moi le deluge aka over my dead body.

    • bwaghorn 11.1

      There is already an cgt on rentals in the brightline, add that to no tax offsetting on mortgage payments unless it's a new build, I've had anicdata of atleast one scumlord selling 10 homes due to the healthy homes rules , I reckon labours going ok on housing,

      Of course 7 homes wants to change all the rules so he and his grubby mates can can prosper, they're the baddies in this show.

      • I agree bwaghorn. There have been more homes built of all types in Rotorua, since the last burst in 1973… 50 years ago. Our shops are open, our people are working, unlike2008 and 9.

        • Belladonna

          The more new houses built – the greater the downward pressure on house prices – pulling them back into the affordable range for 'ordinary' families (we can debate 'til the cows come home on what's 'ordinary').

          Increased housing availability (i.e. more houses, total) also puts downward pressure on rents – for those for whom home ownership isn't a reality (or doesn't make sense, right now).

          The most important thing the government (any government) in NZ can do is pull every lever available to increase the numbers of houses being built. The drivers of poverty (both actual and comparative) all come back to housing costs….

          • In Vino

            Lovely in a purely theoretical way, but the sad thing is that current prices limit home ownership to only a small portion of society.

            You seem to perfectly understand the predicament of this privileged portion.

            I am a single home owner (mortgage paid off) but I have nothing but contempt for those who believe that they have done well in a 'fair' system by owning multiple properties.

            Our system is not fair. It is an anti-social practice to buy properties, rent them out to poor people, then use faith in a 'fair' system to raise rents on the poor tenants, and profit-gouge them despite their obvious desperation.

            Strange that the status quo is seen as fair by landlords, who all seem to be gifted with Nelsonian eyes.

            Could you possibly envisage a system where rent increases were related to no more than the increase in the tenants' income?

            After all, bosses’ negotiators always deny workers increases in pay by arguing that times are hard and the firm can't afford it.. And it would be – gasp – inflationary!

            Yet landlords never seem to see rent increases as inflationary.

            No such easy way out for poor tenants that I am aware of.

            Sorry Belladonna, but the nice balance that your post portrays does not seem to stretch very far past the realm of the wealthy.

            • Patricia Bremner

              Just read your post while up for a bit InVino.
              I would ad AirB&B and empty houses also work against rental the market. Commercial tax rates and rules about insurance for empty homes may help Plus a fee for each week over 6 in a year if the house is habitable. If houses are being used totally for commercial use, different tax rules should apply. imo.
              The built for rent market has begun by the Govt and partners. That is a great help, as they are let at lesser rates and pressure the market downward.

    • weka 11.2

      until there is a crash.

    • Shanreagh 11.3

      Some folks suggest a death tax could be a solution – après moi le deluge aka over my dead body.

      Why are you concerned – phrase is used to indicate indifference to events that will happen after one’s death……

      Do you believe in the intergenerational transfer of wealth?

      I don’t.

      • SPC 11.3.1

        You do, because you oppose any gift duty tax on the transfer “any or all estate” wealth to the children before the parental death.

        Genuine estate tax regimes have a gift duty component for a reason.

        • UncookedSelachimorpha


          When Key got rid of the gift tax, he misleadingly justified it by saying 'it collects very little tax' – ignoring the fact that its purpose was to prevent the wealthy from avoiding other taxes, not to collect tax itself.

          National did this in Key’s first term – indicating what a priority it was for wealth worshippers like him.

        • Shanreagh

          You've missed my point I think.

          If we are concerned about wealth why are we not concerned about it when it transfers by will or a trust to others?

          Many lefties/socialists are against intergenerational wealth transfer.

          That is why I suggested death duties.

          I see no link between a totting up and payment of death duties at the death of a person and gift duty?

          If the govt needed a belts and braces approach they could tighten up on gifts during the life of the person. I know there used to be a provision for gifting but it was explicit ie advice to IRD.

          My idea is for death duties to be paid but if there is a provision for gifting still round then duties on this too. I think it used to be $27,000 pa.

    • Ad 11.4

      They are taxed if you sell a rental within 5 years.

      You want to get ahead in this country you need to invest in property and has been the case for the last 35 years.

      Can't see what the complaint is honestly.

  12. Incognito 12

    Which Nat MP would like to become the Minister of Pothole Repairs? They can pour $500M into holes and as soon as a hole opens it will be ‘fixed’ in no time. Potty as it may sound, I think this will go a long way to getting NZ back on track and there’s no smoke & mirrors here at all. I suggest a 24-hour Pothole Hotline staffed by fully-trained bilingual staff and the first pothole reporter receives a free petrol voucher.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 12.1

      Potholes…aka blackholes. And two hole filling "likely lads" standing, hands in pockets. Just missing a shovel each..under their arm pits.

      A joke really…

      Actually…when searched ..there is more than one photo of the two nerks…hands in pockets.

    • Ad 12.2

      Its very smart politics, and Parker or whoever is minister of transport now simply doesn't have the time left to turn it around.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.3

      Thought my ears were deceiving me when I heard Lux (on pothole patrol with SB) respond to an awkward question by saying National is focussed on how to "fund tax."

      Thought I'd check out Prime News a second time, on Sky channel 514, and there it was:

      What I'm focussed on is that the National party is very clear about how we will fund tax. – Luxon (@5:47 pm on Prime News)

      No link (sorry) – will keep looking. What might Lux mean? Anyone? Makes you think?

      • Dennis Frank 12.3.1

        You're onto it. Freudian slip?? An oblique reference to the sovereign power of govts to customise the financial system in their domain.

        An in-crowd phrase we can only guess at? Keep in mind the basis of quantitative easing: creation of money via design of credit system. Inventive finagling.

        Nobody in National clever enough to do financial alchemy but can't rule out instructions from further up the global hierarchy. But hey, you never know, he may explain himself at some point in the campaign. A journalist may ponder his lingo & quiz him at a press conference. You could try asking Brian Easton (@ Pundit).

  13. Doogs 13

    Dear Topher,

    Can I call you that? Do you mind? Well, it its the arse end of your name which of course fits well with your policies, what few of them you seen fit to release. Are you waiting till the arse end of the campaign to flood us with more ill thought out garbage masquerading as policy? I refer particularly to your latest piece of stupid, juvenile, bone-headed and utterly useless idea for a Ministry of Potholes. I know who you want to be in charge of that. We all know who you want to run that outfit – Slimeon Brown. He's your current expert on everything and nothing, right?

    Just thought I might put a bit of perspective on this travesty of discombobulation. Sorry, big words! Translation – here's my view on this idiocy.

    1. This is already being looked after by the Transport Ministry.

    2. Labour has spent 65% more than your lot did.

    3. Separating out pot holes is childish, petulant, short-sighted and desperate.

    4. National spent 9 years ignoring road maintenance.

    5. National prioritised their mates in the trucking industry, which has been hammering our roads into oblivion ever since.

    6. National let rail fall into decline, to the point where it is almost too expensive to now fix it.

    If this is the best of your policies, then you need to know that running the country is not all about holes in the road. We could probably find you a corner shop to manage. It's not an airline, but, how well did you really do with that one? This policy on road holes is utterly ironic – this means that . . . . oh, never mind, it's not worth educating you.


    A Labour Voter from Auckland

    • Ad 13.1

      You may well be a Labour voter but maybe you should admit the the Opposition are right on roading.

      1. The Ministry of Transport is not in charge of filling potholes in roads.
      2. 211,000 potholes were reported under Labour 25% of those were in 2022 alone. Parker is a joke for trying to offload responsibility to National 6 years ago.
      3. Pot holes are the actual road degrading. For domestic and freight traffic alike, hitting them is a real expense, and you need to show actual empathy for that cost. NZTA is on record about how weak their system now is.
      4. Labour spend most of it transport money on City Rail Link, Eastern Busway, passenger subsidies, and finishing the big National expressways. Labour would not be vulnerable on transport if it hadn't spent its capex on flashy projects.
      5. Labour did not reverse the National regulations on oversized trucks.
      6. Labour spent dumptrucks on rail but its ferries failed, its Auckland system failed, its Te Huia regional passenger service failed, and its South Island system is shrinking very fast.

      Go right ahead vote Labour, but do it with your eyes open about the failing motorway system they alone have delivered.

      • SPC 13.1.1

        The question is

        Are we spending less on road maintenance than before or not?

        Spending less of higher budget transport budget on maintenance is not evidence of this.

        Are there problems because of a greater cost of road maintenance or greater need because of heavier trucks?

        They do a report and do not answer any of these issues.

      • In Vino 13.1.2

        Not Labour alone, Ad – the failing motorway that needs constant repair just North of Hamilton was not started under Labour. Don't exaggerate -it diminishes credibility.

        There is a big failing in the contracting out system.

      • Doogs 13.1.3

        I suppose it could be said the oppo is right about roading, but they are wrong about the reasons and very wrong about the solution. Anyway, in their plan it's not 500 mill in new money, they will be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Your responses –

        1. Details: The MOT is the umbrella and LTSA is under their purview.

        2. Look at who's been in power since 1950 – Natz 48 years, Labour 28 years

        3. Right on! Natz and their long haul truckie mates. As to a weak system – well, how much do you trust civil servants? Half of them could be Nat supporters and consequently drag the chain on projects. I've heard it said.

        4. Not vanity projects – needed expansion to services. If they'd only listened to Robbie all those years ago . . . .

        5. Yep, and there we have it. Can imagine the knock down drag 'em out fight Labour would have had rolling back an established set up like that? Trucks are so established now as the default transport option. There would have been ramifications and repercussions of almost unmanageable proportions.

        6. They did, and it was still not enough, and it would still never be enough because a certain government sold the railways, who then bought cheap and nasty rolling stock, closed the railway workshops and downgraded the support services.

        Not sure who you'll be voting for but when I step back and take a long look at the 2 options available I sure know who's gonna do the mahi for the good of us all.

    • Phillip ure 13.2

      Minister of potholes (the mop) is veering very close to monty python territory…

      Will they get their own named SUV's to belt around in…?

      'yay..! comes mop..!'

  14. Ad 14

    And finally, the apology that Kiri Allen should have made in the first place, smoothed over with the thick icing of Hipkins trying not to lose another Minister:

    "Kiri is a talented Minister who makes a huge contribution to our government. It's important we have a diversity of views, voices and experiences around the Cabinet table and Kiri's recent experiences only adds to that," he said.

    "In our discussions, Kiri did acknowledge that in her passion for her work she sets high standards and high expectations of herself and her staff, but staff and officials must be treated with respect, and there is clear guidance for MPs around that.

    "Kiri agrees with me on that."

    Hipkins also pointed to Allan's recent health struggles.

    "When you add the fact Kiri has battled and overcome cancer in that time plus some personal challenges it's understandable that she was feeling under pressure," he said.

    "Regardless, I've made my expectations to Ministers around their conduct crystal clear and Kiri has agreed to focus on the way she interacts with those around her and make improvements where necessary.

    "When she returns to work Kiri will receive extra coaching to support her to create the positive working environment both of us are committed to."

    It would be great to see, finally, public servants treated with respect and assholes who are also ministers stop being assholes in the first place and enable public servants to get on with the job without massive media coverage, mental health leave, and the Prime Minister having to repeatedly step in.

    • Shanreagh 14.1

      Got it in one Ad.

      This saga was different in that a PS did go public.

      Usually they just have to put up with it and cover up so that their staff do not get disenchanted and stop working the 60 hour weeks that some do, to get stuff up the line and then to the Minister.

      • tWiggle 14.1.1

        A named public servant?

        • Ad

          If a public servant (other than a CEO) is named by a Minister, the Minister should be fired. Public servants have the right not to be doxxed by the political order – even if they are married to them.

        • Shanreagh

          For me, as a long term public servant, it was significant enough that they made a comment unnamed, bearing in mind this is not done. Not sure I would have done this but I accept that things must have been pretty bad and in danger of being slotted into the usual 'blame the PS' for this to happen.

          • Dennis Frank

            The moral of the story is that people need to be considerate towards each other in the work-place. Natural justice must be applied to the situation when a transgression occurs. I see no evidence that the govt does this routinely.

            Therefore there is systemic dysfunction in how the govt of the day & the public service interact. That is untenable. Both Labour & National have been delinquent in creating this over the long-term and both are responsible for the ongoing harm done to participants. As long as they maintain their lack of transparency folks won't have confidence that they are getting it right.

            Ultimately the whistleblower law is available to victims but only if the offending ascends to trigger the threshold. Until then the coercion is effective in keeping the victim silent. Maintaining this status quo is unethical. Naughty, even.

            I agree with Ad that Hipkins did okay trying to clean up the mess. If he's on the ball he'll tell voters that Labour will rectify the procedural problem. Unlikely.

    • adam 14.2

      Totally disagree.

      As someone who helps people survive public servants, I want more Minsters keeping these people in line, so they are not fucking with peoples lives. Not this free hand to make shit up, as they seem to do on a weekly basis.

      Also the amount of undermining of this government from public servants has gone right into the realms of utter fucking bullshit.

      We don;t have a public service, we have ideological hacks working in government departments pushing unelected agendas.

      • Shanreagh 14.2.1

        Yes you say this about the

        Also the amount of undermining of this government from public servants has gone right into the realms of utter fucking bullshit.

        We don;t have a public service, we have ideological hacks working in government departments pushing unelected agendas.

        But do you have any proof or are these just reckons?

        Proof is fine but reckons are just that 'reckons'. Many people don't realise how the process of Govt works with Govt Depts working to their Minister. Some people get confused when a Govt Dept has an authority under legislation and in most of these cases the Minister cannot/should not intervene. Some legislation does have an ability for the Minister to direct but most avoid getting into this situation as it is not a good look for a Minister.

        Some examples would be good.

        • adam

          After your beige splaining, I was struck by the fact your not that clear on what your asking for. So let me try to see if this fits the bill.

          To the second part – ideological ministries. One obvious example is treasury. If you can't see that, then sorry for you. Another recent example is MSD, and the implementation of a new disability ministry. Lets leave aside the perfectly meaningless newspeak they have run with, and just run with the fact it's a ideological shit fest.

          Examples of the public service are off the hook, the shitfuckry around the first Minister of Housing. The under mining of the last two ministers of Broadcasting. The Minister for Child Poverty Reduction, if you think that everyone has been playing ball on that one, I have some NFT's I like to sell you.

          That will do, the list could go on, but as I live in the real world, not the ruff and thumble world of the wellington bubble – I'll stop.

          • Shanreagh

            Ok so no valid examples just strong words.

            Treasury for instance has to investigate and have knowledge about financial systems etc befor they can prepare papers for Ministers.

            Govt depts in their work have to prepare papers to Ministers covering all options. Ministers make the final decision. Do you want only a single option put forward. That is dangerous stuff.

            You don't give details about the MSD, (let alone links) . It may be about legislation that MSD has to operate. For a Minister to direct, even to suggest, that a piece of legislation not be applied is dangerous stuff too.

            Muldoon found this out to his cost. Most minister's have learned from this not to intervne into the operation of legislation governing the operation of the departments.

    • SPC 15.1

      They could have borrowed – for the many not the few – if they had gone ahead with a wealth tax.

      But continuing with the let's do this, let's keep moving approach would just remind people how much the price of items in the salad had gone up.

      Hopefully the ewe people will be successfully herded to the polling booth.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 15.2

      Both seem to be in it for billionaires.

  15. Ffloyd 16

    I would have quite liked’ Let’s Spread The Wealth’ That, I could respond to.

    • Belladonna 16.1

      I really don't think that Hipkins will be keen on any slogan with the word "spread" in it!

      • In Vino 16.1.1

        Words with pleasant connotations are preferable to words with even neutral ones..

        I never thought of that in connection with the old song " – 'Neath the Spreading Chestnut Tree.'

      • Roy Cartland 16.1.2

        I like it.

        "Get out there and spread your wealth!"

  16. Belladonna 17

    ACT have just released their party list (I know, I can hear the peanut calls from here).
    But, at no. 11 is Cameron Luxton.

    Based on the current polling, no. 11 is almost certainly going to get into Parliament.

    Going to be significant confusion in the House with Luxon (Nat), Luxton (ACT) and [if Jo Luxton gets back in on the list – probably not going to hold Rangitata – nothing to do with her, but it's a true blue rural seat and only went Labour in 2020], Luxton (Labour)

  17. joe90 18

    Funny how conspiracy cranks like Jnr eventually get to the Jews.


    Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. dished out wild COVID-19 conspiracy theories this week during a press event at an Upper East Side restaurant, claiming the bug was a genetically engineered bioweapon that may have been “ethnically targeted” to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people.


    “COVID-19. There is an argument that it is ethnically targeted. COVID-19 attacks certain races disproportionately,” Kennedy said. “COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.”

    “We don’t know whether it was deliberately targeted or not but there are papers out there that show the racial or ethnic differential and impact,” Kennedy hedged.

    • adam 18.1

      Look on the bright side, at least he can get through a sentence without a teleprompter. US politics is just a bloody mess.

    • Dennis Frank 18.2

      From a political marketing perspective it ain't silly. Just think how many folks would get spooked by a jewish-chinese axis in geopolitics.

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    7 days ago
  • Bearing True Allegiance?
    Strong Words: “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o ...
    7 days ago
  • You cannot be serious
    Some days it feels like the only thing to say is: Seriously? No, really. Seriously?OneSomeone has used their health department access to share data about vaccinations and patients, and inform the world that New Zealanders have been dying in their hundreds of thousands from the evil vaccine. This of course is pure ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • A promise kept: govt pulls the plug on Lake Onslow scheme – but this saving of $16bn is denounced...
    Buzz from the Beehive After $21.8 million was spent on investigations, the plug has been pulled on the Lake Onslow pumped-hydro electricity scheme, The scheme –  that technically could have solved New Zealand’s looming energy shortage, according to its champions – was a key part of the defeated Labour government’s ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago
  • CHRIS TROTTER: The Maori Party and Oath of Allegiance
    If those elected to the Māori Seats refuse to take them, then what possible reason could the country have for retaining them?   Chris Trotter writes – Christmas is fast approaching, which, as it does every year, means gearing up for an abstruse general knowledge question. “Who was ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago
  • BRIAN EASTON:  Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    1 week ago
  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    1 week ago
  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • First big test coming
    The first big test of the new Government’s approach to Treaty matters is likely to be seen in the return of the Resource Management Act. RMA Minister Chris Bishop has confirmed that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal Labour’s recently passed Natural and Built Environments Act and its ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago

  • COP28 National Statement for New Zealand
    Tēnā koutou katoa Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. An island nation at the bottom of the Pacific, New Zealand is unique.          Our geography, our mountains, lakes, winds and rainfall helps set us up for the future, allowing for nearly 90 per cent of our electricity to come from renewable sources. I’m ...
    2 days ago
  • Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says.  ...
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity
    New Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...
    3 days ago
  • Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga begins
    The Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says.  “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...
    4 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in Dubai
    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...
    4 days ago
  • Study shows need to remove distractions in class
    The Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.   The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...
    4 days ago
  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    5 days ago
  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    6 days ago
  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    7 days ago
  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
    7 days ago
  • Post-Cabinet press conference
    Most weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...
    7 days ago
  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    1 week ago
  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
    1 week ago
  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    1 week ago
  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    1 week ago
  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
    2 weeks ago
  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    3 weeks ago

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