Open mike 16/07/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 16th, 2023 - 94 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

94 comments on “Open mike 16/07/2023 ”

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  1. Bearded Git 1
    16 July 2023 at 7:01 am

    All power to this woman-Marketa Vondrousova-great underdog performance and excellent acceptance interview.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    16 July 2023 at 8:06 am

    A bit of light political entertainment for a sunday: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7xvz5a/a-definitive-ranking-of-nz-prime-ministers-from-lamest-to-coolest

    It is a well-known truism that those who cannot learn from the lameness of history are doomed to be uncool forever.

    39. William Fox, 1856, 1861-1862, 1869-1872, 1873
    Confiscated nearly three million acres of Māori land then blamed them for starting the wars, which is a real dick move. Fox cemented his place as the lamest leader in New Zealand history by going on to become a strident campaigner for prohibition.

    38. Walter Nash, 1957-1960
    A boring old paper-pusher who droned on and on until he was finally shuffled out of office at age 78. His favourite colour was beige, and his biggest thrill was having an occasional gin with his orange juice. The Nash government's 'Black Budget' taxed the shit out of petrol, cigarettes, and beer, which the public was understandably Not Happy About.

    • Anker 2.1
      16 July 2023 at 12:14 pm

      fun and somewhat informative. Thanks Denis.

    • tWiggle 2.2
      16 July 2023 at 3:41 pm

      The reason for the Black Budget was a big drop off in NZ’s overseas income in that year, due to big dips in the price of wool and meat. Which meant NZ government had an unexpected large deficit. Which meant more taxes from somewhere to cover overseas payments.

      Better taxes go up than services go down… The electorate of beer-swilling, chimney-smoking voters didn’t agree, so out Labour went.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    16 July 2023 at 8:33 am

    [comment with quotes but no links deleted]

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    16 July 2023 at 8:42 am

    I sent a submission in when the govt called for public input into democratic reform some years ago, advocating that the spare room be used for participatory democracy & consensus-building. Looks like Palmer has spotted that opportunity:

    He would also run extended public hearings and inquiries inside the Legislative Council Chamber (the empty upper house debating chamber). That would allow combined committees to tackle major issues and legislation and attract more public attention… the problem is the Westminster system is based on adversarial politics, we have to get away from that.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-house/audio/2018897936/geoffrey-palmer-strengthen-parliament-to-watch-government

    On of his other suggestions is likely to irritate the anti-consultancy brigade:

    Palmer's vision of an empowered Parliament also includes giving Parliament more cash to buy expertise and advice.

  5. Shanreagh 5
    16 July 2023 at 9:10 am

    @DF
    What would do without thinkers like Sir Geoffrey?

    And he knows his stuff, speaks from experience.

    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      16 July 2023 at 9:46 am

      I contributed to his constitutional reform process – maybe a decade back? I bought both his books about it brand new. I'm real tight on that propensity due to already owning around ten thousand. I contributed as a critic, so wasn't surprised that they didn't give me any credit in the second book. Labour, you know, credibility eternally rare.

      Not that they performed poorly, him and his sidekick. I carefully acknowledged each of the significant improvements they got right, including my framing of why it was a good idea each time. One could call that an exhibition of leftist solidarity perhaps.

      However they also made a bunch of fatal errors. In conceptualising, and also in design. Actual flaws of logic plus various false assumptions. 7/10. Maybe 7.5.

      Immaterial since the number of retards in Aotearoa remains stubbornly high, so Palmer's chances of success in his reform project shimmer like a veil of possibilities over our land…

      • Dennis Frank 5.1.1
        16 July 2023 at 10:24 am

        Further to that…

        Is the Treaty of Waitangi a contract?

        Sir Geoffrey Palmer: I wouldn’t describe it as a contract; I woulddescribe it as a compact. A contract suggests it’s an arrangement between private parties; this is a public thing, and it’s much more than a legal arrangement. It is all about good faith, it’s all about a constitutional position, much of which is not found in the law.

        https://natlib.govt.nz/he-tohu/korero/interview-with-sir-geoffrey-palmer

        A constitutional position that is not found in law can be found in ethos. This is the Deep Green view of life. Ethos is a strand in social binding that makes community.

        In my theory of neo-pythagorean metaphysics, ethos kicks in as a functional element of human groups. Using elemental analysis (to identify key elements) it becomes countable. This technique categorises systems on the basis of key elements within, essential components without which a group cannot operate ecosystemically.

        So you different unique factors in situations analysable similarly, using the generic theory. You count them to see how many there are. I recycle ancient greek terms to do that (monad, dyad, triad, tetrad, pentad, hexad, heptad for the first seven categories). The requisite conceptualising to integrate qualia with quanta in the theory comes from seeing labels as identifiers providing a unique quality to each number. The theorist must then ground this abstract system via ecosystemic relations, which requires holism to be expanded into theory.

        I've spent the past 40 years doing that legwork, but Deep Green politics must make the social function of ethos more intelligible for the purpose of developing collective resilience. That it provides political activism incorporating communal synchrony of values and aspirations. That it facilitates collaboration. That it teaches conflict resolution via consensus decision-making.

        Palmer in his academic silo are doing their best, no doubt, within the confines of their neolib belief system – but it's better to look deeper into motivations. Oh, the other dimension that it's essential to integrate into a deep green view of life is spirituality.

  6. Heather Grimwood 6
    16 July 2023 at 10:14 am

    I find it hugely enthusing to read Geoffrey Palmer's thinking on democracy, particularly his suggestions of ways to lessen workload of ministers. The latter must be obvious to any who have seen the strained faces in times of calamities during recent years.

    I agree too, that the loss of social cohesion due to the necessity of the life-saving covid-caused restrictions has been a real factor in our lives.

    Thank you Sir Geoffrey.

  7. joe90 7
    16 July 2023 at 11:34 am

    From mainstream comms platform relied on by politicians, businesses, and news outlets around the world to Nazi-infested ponzi scheme with the integrity of a crypto scam.

    Heck of a job, Elmo.

    /

    On Thursday, Twitter said it had expanded its creator monetization fund to share more ad revenue with “creators.” Who is a Twitter creator these days? Well, some of the most politically divisive figures are making the most change in Musk’s new world order.

    […]

    So who were these exclusive, eligible accounts? Twitter paid out more than $20,000 to Andrew Tate, a self-proclaimed misogynist who has been indicted on charges of rape and human trafficking alongside his brother in Romania.

    But wait, there’s more. Ian Miles Cheong, a right-wing spin doctor who increasingly has the ear of the great overlord Musk, reported he received $16,259 on Twitter for tweets focused on subjects like fat-shaming people in TikTok videos and promoting former President Donald Trump’s Truth Social takes. Benny Johnson, a failed journalist, plagiarist, and far-right rabble-rouser, made close to $10,000. Ashley St. Clair, a Babylon Bee writer, and former mouthpiece for Turning Point USA, saw just over $7,000 hit her bank account through the Stripe direct payment app. The right-wing junk account @EndWokeness also received a payout north of $10,000.

    https://gizmodo.com/right-wing-users-cash-in-on-twitter-affiliate-cash-1850640588

    • Dennis Frank 7.1
      16 July 2023 at 11:51 am

      It makes you wonder why Labour has been so keen to adhere to their neolib culture, eh? They'd likely say `if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'.

      Don't hold your breath waiting for the media to go there. Users don't doubt their paradigm that easily! However we could get a rerun of Max Headroom, the suave news presenter with a glitchy verbal style, out of AI quite soon. Would be good. Imagine satirising rightists & leftists in the same episode… cool

  8. Belladonna 8
    16 July 2023 at 11:48 am

    I find that it fails to convince, when politicians (or, in this case, ex-politicians) feel moved to tell us that X has the attributes of a leader.

    If X (in this case, Luxon), is not demonstrating this himself – then all the telling in the world isn't going to change public opinion.

    Herald (paywalled)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/paula-bennett-nationals-christopher-luxon-has-the-attributes-of-a-leader/R6W2YNB67JGU3AXVSZ4RTFIMOQ/

    Archived copy

    https://archive.ph/KQAKe

    • Tony Veitch 8.1
      16 July 2023 at 12:27 pm

      Nothing more than a paid (?) political advertisement!

      And utterly unconvincing, coming from Paula Bennett!

    • Jilly Bee 8.2
      16 July 2023 at 12:42 pm

      And the Herald has gone to great lengths to convince us that they're not politically biased. Yeah right.

    • Muttonbird 8.3
      16 July 2023 at 1:00 pm

      Complains about attacking people not ideas, then proceeds to attack people.

    • Patricia Bremner 8.4
      16 July 2023 at 1:40 pm

      I was tempted to write a school report reply. (Regarding Act Paula Bennet and Luxon's name calling)

      "Christopher could choose his friends more wisely and work on his social and emotional skills.'' 5/10

    • Bearded Git 8.5
      16 July 2023 at 3:09 pm

      Wonderful paywall means I can't read Pullya Benefits poisonous waffle.

    • SPC 8.6
      16 July 2023 at 11:12 pm

      It's a short step from calling him Lux, as Bennett does, to wondering where do pentecostals go when they rapture to watch the world suffer bowls of judgment being poured out upon the earth. Is it planet X?

      Lux is a global brand developed by Unilever

      Lux pioneered celebrity endorsements for its soap.

      Luxon (surely not chosen for his name) worked for Unilever in Canada before taking his cleanliness even closer to God, by being a bald eagle with Air NZ.

      . … Lux is marketed primarily in South Asian countries such as India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=Is+Lux+soap+a+unilver+product

      So the Lux thing is a part of the campaign for the migrant worker vote?

  9. Herodotus 9
    16 July 2023 at 2:07 pm

    Do we vote for a party or a leader ??

    So a party … No it’s a leader release it’s manifesto then what the party stood for under the last leader doesn’t matter, example in point climate change ?? We now have by his actions someone who doesn’t believe all he believes in is vote to win and screw the consequences. 😱 How hollow leadership we have had under labour. How the labour follows can look in the mirror ?? Disgraceful all of you

    ”This election was the first chance for him to fully set his own agenda for a better future.”you deserve less than National in 2002.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/07/16/chris-hipkins-reveals-labours-2023-election-slogan/

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-in-it-for-you-chris-hipkins-launches-slogan-for-labour-2023-campaign/33PUJBSVTJEZFIR5MBXUIR5DA4/

    • Jack 9.1
      16 July 2023 at 3:00 pm

      Yep, while National is busy releasing policy today … Labour is busy releasing slogans.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 9.2
      16 July 2023 at 4:14 pm

      Labour's 1972 election campaign slogan "It's time" can't be beaten for brevity.

      "In it for you" is arguably better, albeit wordier than "Let's do this" and "Let's keep moving", but I prefer UK Labour's failed "For the many, not the few".

      If only NAct could run on an honest slogan – "For the few, not the many".

      2005 – "Tax. Cut." – with just a dash of Iwi/Kiwi

      2008 – "Choose a brighter future [for all?]"

      2011 – "Building a brighter future [for all?]"

      2014 – "Working for [all?] New Zealand" and “Keep the team that's working”

      2017 – "Delivering for [all?] New Zealanders"

      2020 – "Strong team. More Jobs. Better Economy" [the 1st team being Muller & Kaye]

      • Macro 9.2.1
        16 July 2023 at 4:45 pm

        Not to forget the 2008 slogan

        "Stop waving goodbye to your loved ones"

        I'll never forget that one.

        In 2009 after winning the election National "reorganised" ACC; thereby shoving over 100 highly specialised OTs out of employment in NZ. My son-in-law was one of them, and the only work for him was in Australia, who were actively recruiting people with his expertise in after-care for people with brain injury at the time. So we waved goodbye to our loved ones. They have been there ever since, and are about to become Australian citizens. He is now managing 3 after care facilities in the Perth area.

      • Jack 9.2.2
        16 July 2023 at 4:45 pm

        At least labour are being honest with half the slogan. They’ve certainly landed NZ “in it” for years to come. Rather they left me out of it with the second part of the slogan … not in my name.

        • In Vino 9.2.2.1
          16 July 2023 at 8:16 pm

          Jack – it has been obvious since your very first comment that you are not here to promote the left. Please tell me something to make me believe that you even understand the socialist perspective. Or just stop commenting in such a boring manner.

        • tWiggle 9.2.2.2
          16 July 2023 at 10:11 pm

          In 6 months time we'll be saying, we told ya so. If this NACT government comes in, there won't be the sinking lid approach while things degrade (Key's strategy). NACT will be a government of big change and public sector cuts, because of the ideological pull of ACT.

          Look to Britain under the Tories and Oz under LNP – Luxon's been having nice long chats with members of those governments.

          There will be degradation of public education, with funding shifted to for-profit academies and charter schools, de facto privatisation of medicine, for-profit prisons and bootcamps, privatisation of MSD services, as in CentreLink, privitisation or dismantling of ACC, gig-economy jobs with zero hours.

          NACT are creaming their knickers thinking of all the kickbacks they'll get putting those contracts in place.

          [Please correct the mistake in your email address in your next comment, thanks – Incognito]

    • SPC 9.3
      16 July 2023 at 11:18 pm

      The country deserves better than a NACT government.

      But you do a return to collecting a mortgage interest deduction against rent income and selling a rental without any CGT/brightline test.

  10. newsense 10
    16 July 2023 at 3:52 pm

    Janet Wilson and Andrea Vance are today’s poison pen hags! Congratulations.

    Janet calls Jacinda and Michael Wood insincere in their apology for the Dawn Raids. Then she confuses Muldoon and National’s state sponsored racist campaign against a particular minority with a state department continuing to make some after hours visits against no particular demographic.
    Showing her evil that held her close to Judith Collins.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132535756/the-shameuponshame-sorrynotsorry-saga-of-labours-dawn-raids-apology

    Funnily enough ‘Crusher’ was long touted for being tough, but goodness forbid a Labour minister may have shouted.

    Vance manages to put herself first in her column on Chippy, leaving us to wonder if she is a bigger egomaniac than the pollies. And without any complaint being filed she blames Chippy for not putting Allan in the stocks. Then, the long bow and ego working well, she considers this an example of betraying Labour’s principles somehow. Quite spectacular bullshit, which she obviously enjoyed smelling.

    His unflinching pragmatism was evident in the last few weeks when he – the leader of a party founded for workers’ rights – sided with his Cabinet Minister Kiritapu Allan over allegations she treated staff badly.

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350036677/pm-determined-win-all-costs-price-labours-soul

    • Belladonna 10.1
      16 July 2023 at 5:11 pm

      a state department continuing to make some after hours visits against no particular demographic.

      Does this mean that you think that 'out of hours visits' (aren't euphemisms, wonderful) are acceptable?

      Carmel Sepuloni certainly doesn't appear to think that they are – under any description.

      https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/07/11/sepuloni-unaware-dawn-raids-would-continue-after-2021-apology/

      While Vance’s piece is certainly a polemic against Labour – I doubt that Ardern, et al were deliberately hypocritical. However, I think it does indicate a tendency towards political theatre, rather than hard policy work.
      Which has come up again, and again, in the policy and legislation of the current government.

      • newsense 10.1.1
        16 July 2023 at 6:36 pm

        No- as they are not, and they should be stopped. It’s also quite a mystery as to why Immigration is in MBIE in any case…

        But there is a difference between rogue miscommunication which should have been stopped and the racism in the first place.

        Yes- I bloody well agree with Carmel.

        It’s this poison tongue of a Nats coms operative whose party embody that racism ( watch them in Patu pull in to their function and ‘consider’ their protestors), that hasn’t apologised and that questions the sincerity of those who have.

        All hands to the nasty levers. Make NZ nasty again.

      • newsense 10.1.2
        16 July 2023 at 6:58 pm

        Political theatre is important. Symbolism is important. The Prime Minister admitting what the state did to you and your family was wrong is important.

        What are you talking about with your bland and vapid statement that it was done instead of ‘hard policy work’ which has come up again and again?

        Compared to the opposition whose key justice conference policy was I don’t know I’ll tell you when you’ve all voted for us and I’ll have a guess. On something that has been conclusively shown to be a failure across the board?

        • Belladonna 10.1.2.1
          16 July 2023 at 7:33 pm

          Well, it very clearly wasn't supported by the required detailed policy work in the Immigration department. Take a bow: Kris Faafoi (the Minister who wanted to retire); and Michael Wood (the Minister who doesn't seem to be across detail either in his private life or, as we see now, in his job),

          Political symbolism which is *not* supported by policy, ministerial direction and/or legislation – is just 'theatre' and leaves the government wide open to charges of hypocrisy.

          Saying, effectively, 'the other guys are worse' doesn't do much to inspire confidence in (or willingness to vote for), the current government.

          • newsense 10.1.2.1.1
            20 July 2023 at 2:12 am

            Equally just repeating your argument doesn’t make it any truer.

            I would stake the integrity of both Jacinda Ardern and Michael Wood against yours any day.

            That they are not perfect people or politicians are true. But also they are not on The Standard for whatever reason joining the National party poison pen club in calling an apology insincere, in the rather cowardly manner of attacking ‘political theatre’ in general.

            It is for the victims and recipients of the apology to deem the their satisfaction.

            So if you have a fight with your partner making assumptions- you must buy them something or any apology is insincere? It would fit the vanity of the moniker.

    • Patricia Bremner 10.2
      16 July 2023 at 5:55 pm

      Their lack of compassion is evident. Kiri is not allowed to be upset by the destruction of her area, nor is she meant to be hurt by being in a failed relationship. She is supposed to be endlessly patient in the face of half complaints, whispers to the media and digs by the National Party DP. She is apologising for any hurt caused. Still the vicious tongues want Chippy to dismiss Kiri, as according to these founts of "information" she is not "being fair to workers". Their nastiness is clearly displayed.angry

  11. Incognito 11
    16 July 2023 at 4:20 pm

    Property was seen differently by politicians, [Bernard] Hickey said.

    As if to make the point, the prime minister ruled out a Capital Gains Tax last Wednesday.

    That won't dissuade people from putting their money into houses in future – possibly boosting the size of the mortgages people are prepared to take on, even at the risk of higher repayments making them even more unaffordable.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018898507/could-a-mortgage-bomb-blow-up-borrowers

    And on and on it goes. Everybody is banking on house prices increasing and capital gains to stay untaxed. Too bad for renters, first-home buyers and the next generation of Kiwis whose parents are not firmly established on the property ladder. Some folks suggest a death tax could be a solution – après moi le deluge aka over my dead body.

    • bwaghorn 11.1
      16 July 2023 at 5:01 pm

      There is already an cgt on rentals in the brightline, add that to no tax offsetting on mortgage payments unless it's a new build, I've had anicdata of atleast one scumlord selling 10 homes due to the healthy homes rules , I reckon labours going ok on housing,

      Of course 7 homes wants to change all the rules so he and his grubby mates can can prosper, they're the baddies in this show.

      • Patricia Bremner 11.1.1
        16 July 2023 at 6:49 pm

        I agree bwaghorn. There have been more homes built of all types in Rotorua, since the last burst in 1973… 50 years ago. Our shops are open, our people are working, unlike2008 and 9.

        • Belladonna 11.1.1.1
          16 July 2023 at 7:13 pm

          The more new houses built – the greater the downward pressure on house prices – pulling them back into the affordable range for 'ordinary' families (we can debate 'til the cows come home on what's 'ordinary').

          Increased housing availability (i.e. more houses, total) also puts downward pressure on rents – for those for whom home ownership isn't a reality (or doesn't make sense, right now).

          The most important thing the government (any government) in NZ can do is pull every lever available to increase the numbers of houses being built. The drivers of poverty (both actual and comparative) all come back to housing costs….

          • In Vino 11.1.1.1.1
            16 July 2023 at 8:58 pm

            Lovely in a purely theoretical way, but the sad thing is that current prices limit home ownership to only a small portion of society.

            You seem to perfectly understand the predicament of this privileged portion.

            I am a single home owner (mortgage paid off) but I have nothing but contempt for those who believe that they have done well in a 'fair' system by owning multiple properties.

            Our system is not fair. It is an anti-social practice to buy properties, rent them out to poor people, then use faith in a 'fair' system to raise rents on the poor tenants, and profit-gouge them despite their obvious desperation.

            Strange that the status quo is seen as fair by landlords, who all seem to be gifted with Nelsonian eyes.

            Could you possibly envisage a system where rent increases were related to no more than the increase in the tenants' income?

            After all, bosses’ negotiators always deny workers increases in pay by arguing that times are hard and the firm can't afford it.. And it would be – gasp – inflationary!

            Yet landlords never seem to see rent increases as inflationary.

            No such easy way out for poor tenants that I am aware of.

            Sorry Belladonna, but the nice balance that your post portrays does not seem to stretch very far past the realm of the wealthy.

            • Patricia Bremner 11.1.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2023 at 2:40 am

              Just read your post while up for a bit InVino.
              I would ad AirB&B and empty houses also work against rental the market. Commercial tax rates and rules about insurance for empty homes may help Plus a fee for each week over 6 in a year if the house is habitable. If houses are being used totally for commercial use, different tax rules should apply. imo.
              The built for rent market has begun by the Govt and partners. That is a great help, as they are let at lesser rates and pressure the market downward.

    • weka 11.2
      16 July 2023 at 5:09 pm

      until there is a crash.

    • Shanreagh 11.3
      16 July 2023 at 5:59 pm

      Some folks suggest a death tax could be a solution – après moi le deluge aka over my dead body.

      Why are you concerned – phrase is used to indicate indifference to events that will happen after one’s death……

      Do you believe in the intergenerational transfer of wealth?

      I don’t.

      • SPC 11.3.1
        16 July 2023 at 8:31 pm

        You do, because you oppose any gift duty tax on the transfer “any or all estate” wealth to the children before the parental death.

        Genuine estate tax regimes have a gift duty component for a reason.

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 11.3.1.1
          16 July 2023 at 11:59 pm

          Exactly.

          When Key got rid of the gift tax, he misleadingly justified it by saying 'it collects very little tax' – ignoring the fact that its purpose was to prevent the wealthy from avoiding other taxes, not to collect tax itself.

          National did this in Key’s first term – indicating what a priority it was for wealth worshippers like him.

        • Shanreagh 11.3.1.2
          17 July 2023 at 5:06 pm

          You've missed my point I think.

          If we are concerned about wealth why are we not concerned about it when it transfers by will or a trust to others?

          Many lefties/socialists are against intergenerational wealth transfer.

          That is why I suggested death duties.

          I see no link between a totting up and payment of death duties at the death of a person and gift duty?

          If the govt needed a belts and braces approach they could tighten up on gifts during the life of the person. I know there used to be a provision for gifting but it was explicit ie advice to IRD.

          My idea is for death duties to be paid but if there is a provision for gifting still round then duties on this too. I think it used to be $27,000 pa.

    • Ad 11.4
      16 July 2023 at 6:06 pm

      They are taxed if you sell a rental within 5 years.

      You want to get ahead in this country you need to invest in property and has been the case for the last 35 years.

      Can't see what the complaint is honestly.

  12. Incognito 12
    16 July 2023 at 4:38 pm

    Which Nat MP would like to become the Minister of Pothole Repairs? They can pour $500M into holes and as soon as a hole opens it will be ‘fixed’ in no time. Potty as it may sound, I think this will go a long way to getting NZ back on track and there’s no smoke & mirrors here at all. I suggest a 24-hour Pothole Hotline staffed by fully-trained bilingual staff and the first pothole reporter receives a free petrol voucher.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 12.1
      16 July 2023 at 5:03 pm

      Potholes…aka blackholes. And two hole filling "likely lads" standing, hands in pockets. Just missing a shovel each..under their arm pits.

      A joke really…

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/493800/on-the-campaign-trail-national-s-pothole-fix-labour-s-new-slogan-and-act-s-party-list

      Actually…when searched ..there is more than one photo of the two nerks…hands in pockets.

    • Ad 12.2
      16 July 2023 at 6:04 pm

      Its very smart politics, and Parker or whoever is minister of transport now simply doesn't have the time left to turn it around.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.3
      16 July 2023 at 6:53 pm

      Thought my ears were deceiving me when I heard Lux (on pothole patrol with SB) respond to an awkward question by saying National is focussed on how to "fund tax."

      Thought I'd check out Prime News a second time, on Sky channel 514, and there it was:

      What I'm focussed on is that the National party is very clear about how we will fund tax. – Luxon (@5:47 pm on Prime News)

      No link (sorry) – will keep looking. What might Lux mean? Anyone? Makes you think?

      • Dennis Frank 12.3.1
        17 July 2023 at 5:20 am

        You're onto it. Freudian slip?? An oblique reference to the sovereign power of govts to customise the financial system in their domain.

        An in-crowd phrase we can only guess at? Keep in mind the basis of quantitative easing: creation of money via design of credit system. Inventive finagling.

        Nobody in National clever enough to do financial alchemy but can't rule out instructions from further up the global hierarchy. But hey, you never know, he may explain himself at some point in the campaign. A journalist may ponder his lingo & quiz him at a press conference. You could try asking Brian Easton (@ Pundit).

  13. Doogs 13
    16 July 2023 at 5:25 pm

    Dear Topher,

    Can I call you that? Do you mind? Well, it its the arse end of your name which of course fits well with your policies, what few of them you seen fit to release. Are you waiting till the arse end of the campaign to flood us with more ill thought out garbage masquerading as policy? I refer particularly to your latest piece of stupid, juvenile, bone-headed and utterly useless idea for a Ministry of Potholes. I know who you want to be in charge of that. We all know who you want to run that outfit – Slimeon Brown. He's your current expert on everything and nothing, right?

    Just thought I might put a bit of perspective on this travesty of discombobulation. Sorry, big words! Translation – here's my view on this idiocy.

    1. This is already being looked after by the Transport Ministry.

    2. Labour has spent 65% more than your lot did.

    3. Separating out pot holes is childish, petulant, short-sighted and desperate.

    4. National spent 9 years ignoring road maintenance.

    5. National prioritised their mates in the trucking industry, which has been hammering our roads into oblivion ever since.

    6. National let rail fall into decline, to the point where it is almost too expensive to now fix it.

    If this is the best of your policies, then you need to know that running the country is not all about holes in the road. We could probably find you a corner shop to manage. It's not an airline, but, how well did you really do with that one? This policy on road holes is utterly ironic – this means that . . . . oh, never mind, it's not worth educating you.

    Signed

    A Labour Voter from Auckland

    • Ad 13.1
      16 July 2023 at 6:03 pm

      You may well be a Labour voter but maybe you should admit the the Opposition are right on roading.

      1. The Ministry of Transport is not in charge of filling potholes in roads.
      2. 211,000 potholes were reported under Labour 25% of those were in 2022 alone. Parker is a joke for trying to offload responsibility to National 6 years ago.
      3. Pot holes are the actual road degrading. For domestic and freight traffic alike, hitting them is a real expense, and you need to show actual empathy for that cost. NZTA is on record about how weak their system now is.
      4. Labour spend most of it transport money on City Rail Link, Eastern Busway, passenger subsidies, and finishing the big National expressways. Labour would not be vulnerable on transport if it hadn't spent its capex on flashy projects.
      5. Labour did not reverse the National regulations on oversized trucks.
      6. Labour spent dumptrucks on rail but its ferries failed, its Auckland system failed, its Te Huia regional passenger service failed, and its South Island system is shrinking very fast.

      Go right ahead vote Labour, but do it with your eyes open about the failing motorway system they alone have delivered.

      • SPC 13.1.1
        16 July 2023 at 8:26 pm

        The question is

        Are we spending less on road maintenance than before or not?

        Spending less of higher budget transport budget on maintenance is not evidence of this.

        Are there problems because of a greater cost of road maintenance or greater need because of heavier trucks?

        They do a report and do not answer any of these issues.

        https://www.lgnz.co.nz/news-and-media/2023-media-releases/funding-for-roads-at-lowest-levels-in-a-decade/

      • In Vino 13.1.2
        16 July 2023 at 9:20 pm

        Not Labour alone, Ad – the failing motorway that needs constant repair just North of Hamilton was not started under Labour. Don't exaggerate -it diminishes credibility.

        There is a big failing in the contracting out system.

      • Doogs 13.1.3
        17 July 2023 at 4:00 pm

        I suppose it could be said the oppo is right about roading, but they are wrong about the reasons and very wrong about the solution. Anyway, in their plan it's not 500 mill in new money, they will be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Your responses –

        1. Details: The MOT is the umbrella and LTSA is under their purview.

        2. Look at who's been in power since 1950 – Natz 48 years, Labour 28 years

        3. Right on! Natz and their long haul truckie mates. As to a weak system – well, how much do you trust civil servants? Half of them could be Nat supporters and consequently drag the chain on projects. I've heard it said.

        4. Not vanity projects – needed expansion to services. If they'd only listened to Robbie all those years ago . . . .

        5. Yep, and there we have it. Can imagine the knock down drag 'em out fight Labour would have had rolling back an established set up like that? Trucks are so established now as the default transport option. There would have been ramifications and repercussions of almost unmanageable proportions.

        6. They did, and it was still not enough, and it would still never be enough because a certain government sold the railways, who then bought cheap and nasty rolling stock, closed the railway workshops and downgraded the support services.

        Not sure who you'll be voting for but when I step back and take a long look at the 2 options available I sure know who's gonna do the mahi for the good of us all.

    • Phillip ure 13.2
      16 July 2023 at 6:14 pm

      Minister of potholes (the mop) is veering very close to monty python territory…

      Will they get their own named SUV's to belt around in…?

      'yay..!..here comes mop..!'

  14. Ad 14
    16 July 2023 at 5:50 pm

    And finally, the apology that Kiri Allen should have made in the first place, smoothed over with the thick icing of Hipkins trying not to lose another Minister:

    "Kiri is a talented Minister who makes a huge contribution to our government. It's important we have a diversity of views, voices and experiences around the Cabinet table and Kiri's recent experiences only adds to that," he said.

    "In our discussions, Kiri did acknowledge that in her passion for her work she sets high standards and high expectations of herself and her staff, but staff and officials must be treated with respect, and there is clear guidance for MPs around that.

    "Kiri agrees with me on that."

    Hipkins also pointed to Allan's recent health struggles.

    "When you add the fact Kiri has battled and overcome cancer in that time plus some personal challenges it's understandable that she was feeling under pressure," he said.

    "Regardless, I've made my expectations to Ministers around their conduct crystal clear and Kiri has agreed to focus on the way she interacts with those around her and make improvements where necessary.

    "When she returns to work Kiri will receive extra coaching to support her to create the positive working environment both of us are committed to."

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/07/14/kiri-allan-to-return-to-work-resume-full-duties-pm-announces/

    It would be great to see, finally, public servants treated with respect and assholes who are also ministers stop being assholes in the first place and enable public servants to get on with the job without massive media coverage, mental health leave, and the Prime Minister having to repeatedly step in.

    • Shanreagh 14.1
      16 July 2023 at 6:03 pm

      Got it in one Ad.

      This saga was different in that a PS did go public.

      Usually they just have to put up with it and cover up so that their staff do not get disenchanted and stop working the 60 hour weeks that some do, to get stuff up the line and then to the Minister.

      • tWiggle 14.1.1
        16 July 2023 at 6:25 pm

        A named public servant?

        • Ad 14.1.1.1
          16 July 2023 at 6:34 pm

          If a public servant (other than a CEO) is named by a Minister, the Minister should be fired. Public servants have the right not to be doxxed by the political order – even if they are married to them.

        • Shanreagh 14.1.1.2
          16 July 2023 at 7:00 pm

          For me, as a long term public servant, it was significant enough that they made a comment unnamed, bearing in mind this is not done. Not sure I would have done this but I accept that things must have been pretty bad and in danger of being slotted into the usual 'blame the PS' for this to happen.

          • Dennis Frank 14.1.1.2.1
            17 July 2023 at 5:37 am

            The moral of the story is that people need to be considerate towards each other in the work-place. Natural justice must be applied to the situation when a transgression occurs. I see no evidence that the govt does this routinely.

            Therefore there is systemic dysfunction in how the govt of the day & the public service interact. That is untenable. Both Labour & National have been delinquent in creating this over the long-term and both are responsible for the ongoing harm done to participants. As long as they maintain their lack of transparency folks won't have confidence that they are getting it right.

            Ultimately the whistleblower law is available to victims but only if the offending ascends to trigger the threshold. Until then the coercion is effective in keeping the victim silent. Maintaining this status quo is unethical. Naughty, even.

            I agree with Ad that Hipkins did okay trying to clean up the mess. If he's on the ball he'll tell voters that Labour will rectify the procedural problem. Unlikely.

    • adam 14.2
      17 July 2023 at 1:33 am

      Totally disagree.

      As someone who helps people survive public servants, I want more Minsters keeping these people in line, so they are not fucking with peoples lives. Not this free hand to make shit up, as they seem to do on a weekly basis.

      Also the amount of undermining of this government from public servants has gone right into the realms of utter fucking bullshit.

      We don;t have a public service, we have ideological hacks working in government departments pushing unelected agendas.

      • Shanreagh 14.2.1
        17 July 2023 at 4:57 pm

        Yes you say this about the

        Also the amount of undermining of this government from public servants has gone right into the realms of utter fucking bullshit.

        We don;t have a public service, we have ideological hacks working in government departments pushing unelected agendas.

        But do you have any proof or are these just reckons?

        Proof is fine but reckons are just that 'reckons'. Many people don't realise how the process of Govt works with Govt Depts working to their Minister. Some people get confused when a Govt Dept has an authority under legislation and in most of these cases the Minister cannot/should not intervene. Some legislation does have an ability for the Minister to direct but most avoid getting into this situation as it is not a good look for a Minister.

        Some examples would be good.

        • adam 14.2.1.1
          18 July 2023 at 12:02 am

          After your beige splaining, I was struck by the fact your not that clear on what your asking for. So let me try to see if this fits the bill.

          To the second part – ideological ministries. One obvious example is treasury. If you can't see that, then sorry for you. Another recent example is MSD, and the implementation of a new disability ministry. Lets leave aside the perfectly meaningless newspeak they have run with, and just run with the fact it's a ideological shit fest.

          Examples of the public service are off the hook, the shitfuckry around the first Minister of Housing. The under mining of the last two ministers of Broadcasting. The Minister for Child Poverty Reduction, if you think that everyone has been playing ball on that one, I have some NFT's I like to sell you.

          That will do, the list could go on, but as I live in the real world, not the ruff and thumble world of the wellington bubble – I'll stop.

          • Shanreagh 14.2.1.1.1
            18 July 2023 at 12:50 pm

            Ok so no valid examples just strong words.

            Treasury for instance has to investigate and have knowledge about financial systems etc befor they can prepare papers for Ministers.

            Govt depts in their work have to prepare papers to Ministers covering all options. Ministers make the final decision. Do you want only a single option put forward. That is dangerous stuff.

            You don't give details about the MSD, (let alone links) . It may be about legislation that MSD has to operate. For a Minister to direct, even to suggest, that a piece of legislation not be applied is dangerous stuff too.

            Muldoon found this out to his cost. Most minister's have learned from this not to intervne into the operation of legislation governing the operation of the departments.

    • SPC 15.1
      16 July 2023 at 8:12 pm

      They could have borrowed – for the many not the few – if they had gone ahead with a wealth tax.

      But continuing with the let's do this, let's keep moving approach would just remind people how much the price of items in the salad had gone up.

      Hopefully the ewe people will be successfully herded to the polling booth.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 15.2
      17 July 2023 at 12:02 am

      Both seem to be in it for billionaires.

  16. Ffloyd 16
    16 July 2023 at 6:19 pm

    I would have quite liked’ Let’s Spread The Wealth’ That, I could respond to.

    • Belladonna 16.1
      16 July 2023 at 8:56 pm

      I really don't think that Hipkins will be keen on any slogan with the word "spread" in it!

      • In Vino 16.1.1
        16 July 2023 at 9:31 pm

        Words with pleasant connotations are preferable to words with even neutral ones..

        I never thought of that in connection with the old song " – 'Neath the Spreading Chestnut Tree.'

      • Roy Cartland 16.1.2
        17 July 2023 at 7:15 am

        I like it.

        "Get out there and spread your wealth!"

  17. Belladonna 17
    16 July 2023 at 7:23 pm

    ACT have just released their party list (I know, I can hear the peanut calls from here).
    But, at no. 11 is Cameron Luxton.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132554781/act-releases-candidate-list-mp-james-mcdowall-to-retire

    Based on the current polling, no. 11 is almost certainly going to get into Parliament.

    Going to be significant confusion in the House with Luxon (Nat), Luxton (ACT) and [if Jo Luxton gets back in on the list – probably not going to hold Rangitata – nothing to do with her, but it's a true blue rural seat and only went Labour in 2020], Luxton (Labour)

  18. joe90 18
    16 July 2023 at 7:55 pm

    Funny how conspiracy cranks like Jnr eventually get to the Jews.

    /

    Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. dished out wild COVID-19 conspiracy theories this week during a press event at an Upper East Side restaurant, claiming the bug was a genetically engineered bioweapon that may have been “ethnically targeted” to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people.

    […]

    “COVID-19. There is an argument that it is ethnically targeted. COVID-19 attacks certain races disproportionately,” Kennedy said. “COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.”

    “We don’t know whether it was deliberately targeted or not but there are papers out there that show the racial or ethnic differential and impact,” Kennedy hedged.

    https://nypost.com/2023/07/15/rfk-jr-says-covid-was-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews/amp/

    • adam 18.1
      17 July 2023 at 1:24 am

      Look on the bright side, at least he can get through a sentence without a teleprompter. US politics is just a bloody mess.

    • Dennis Frank 18.2
      17 July 2023 at 5:42 am

      From a political marketing perspective it ain't silly. Just think how many folks would get spooked by a jewish-chinese axis in geopolitics.

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