Open mike 15/07/2023

95 comments on “Open mike 15/07/2023 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   15 July 2023 at 8:10 am

   Folks ought to check out the interview Kim Hill's doing at 9.05 with an online news expert. Buzzfeed was an epic success story.

   In late 2011, BuzzFeed hired Ben Smith of Politico as editor-in-chief, to expand the site into long-form journalism and reportage.

   By 2016, BuzzFeed had 20 investigative journalists. Chief executive Jonah Peretti announced the BuzzFeed News division will close on April 20, 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BuzzFeed

   Why? No doubt Kim will elicit the answer…
   • Dennis Frank 1.1

     15 July 2023 at 8:15 am

     This community-building insight from the wiki is transportable, generic…

     On July 17, 2012, humor website McSweeney's Internet Tendency published a satirical piece entitled "Suggested BuzzFeed Articles", prompting BuzzFeed to create many of the suggestions.

     BuzzFeed listed McSweeney's as a "Community Contributor". The post subsequently received more than 350,000 page views, prompted BuzzFeed to ask for user submissions, and received media attention. Subsequently, the website launched the "Community" section in May 2013 to enable users to submit content.

     Users initially are limited to publishing only one post per day, but may increase their submission capacity by raising their "Cat Power", described on the BuzzFeed website as "an official measure of your rank in BuzzFeed's Community." A user's Cat Power increases as they achieve greater prominence on the site.

     This interactive game no doubt entertains many players. Designers can exploit the generic dimensions of the design.
   • Incognito 1.2

     15 July 2023 at 10:25 am

     [Link required]
     • Dennis Frank 1.2.1

       15 July 2023 at 10:38 am

       I included it in comment #1. I flagged that by reference to the wiki. Since wikis have featured in commentary & politics for the past couple of decades, I'm confident that readers can reach them easily when such pointers are included.
       • Incognito 1.2.1.1

         15 July 2023 at 10:55 am

         I cannot see the alleged link to Kim Hill’s interview in your comment @ 1!?
         • Dennis Frank 1.2.1.1.1

           15 July 2023 at 11:26 am

           That was because the link I inserted was to her topic for the interview. The link you want wasn't available due to my posting the notice 55 mins prior to the interview actually occurring.

           However the interview is now available via their website player at https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday
           • weka 1.2.1.1.1.1

             15 July 2023 at 11:31 am

             why haven't you linked to the actual piece?
             • Dennis Frank …

               15 July 2023 at 11:39 am

               When I brought up the interview player, it didn't have a web address included. However I have just gone back into RNZ and found this page they've posted subsequently: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018898496/ben-smith-how-clicks-likes-and-shares-ruined-digital-news
               • weka …

                 15 July 2023 at 12:08 pm

                 thanks. By the time you commented at 11.26am, the page was available.

                 Earlier than that (ie before RNZ have the live link up), please link to the episode pages of the show and copy and paste the title. eg in this case,

                 Ben Smith: how clicks, likes and shares ruined digital news

                 https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/20230715

                 This makes it much easier for people to find the article and audio later.

                 Your link to Saturday Morning's page means people have to work more to find the relevant bit and in a week it will have dropped down the page, making it even harder to find.

                 The key point here is that we want the piece to be as easily available as possible, so that people have the context and can debate from that. All pieces, all the time.
                 • Dennis Frank …

                   15 July 2023 at 12:15 pm

                   Yeah sure, I'm aware of ideal practice – but as I just pointed out to Incognito, I see others onsite here regularly not providing such links when they comment, with no moderating consequently…
                   • weka …

                     15 July 2023 at 12:23 pm

                     go on then, show me three examples of other people posting without links, so we can hash out what is going on.
                   • Dennis Frank …

                     15 July 2023 at 12:54 pm

                     None evident today so far. I'll check later.
           • Incognito 1.2.1.1.1.2

             15 July 2023 at 1:57 pm

             That was because the link I inserted was to her topic for the interview.

             There was no link! Why do you continue lying about this?

             You spend more time on spamming this site and editing/altering text copied & pasted from Wiki pages.

             This is turning into an exercise in time-wasting because you act as an obnoxious little child.
             • weka …

               15 July 2023 at 2:22 pm

               The link Dennis is referring to is the wikipedia link in comment 1. This is the link to KH's topic before the interview was aired.

               I don't see Dennis as lying here, more that the two of you are talking at cross purposes.
               • Incognito …

                 15 July 2023 at 2:37 pm

                 Fair enough, I withdraw and apologise for the lying bit.

                 This still leaves the Q why an intelligent commenter is being obnoxious about providing a link to an interview that hasn’t aired yet and “Folks ought to check out”. The first time (in this OM) he was asked was @ 10:25 am, after the interview had aired. And after that, it was pulling teeth. And then he starts digging in by making allegations about others who don’t link (it does happen) as if this should let him off the hook.

                 And there’s another instance last night of him not linking and making very little or no effort to show some courtesy and respect of the rules of engagement of this site.
                 • weka …

                   15 July 2023 at 2:59 pm

                   I will admit I had to bite my tongue at the accusation that other people get away with it, given how much of our time is spent on this simple thing chasing up regulars who should know better.
2. weka 2

   15 July 2023 at 8:13 am

   Apparently we are in the election proper now with parties and candidates needing to put authorisation statements. Game on lefties 🔥
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     15 July 2023 at 8:26 am

     If site owner/operator configures chatGPT into the system here as an autonomous module, best to give it the username Lefty.

     I posted something last night noting that it had been found to have a leftist bias. That can be tweaked via consensus of moderators and owner/operator. You could, for instance, give it Che Guevara charisma to leverage the icon effect, Trotsy's tactical nous to get results in (ideological) warfare, Marx's class framing, Stalin's machiavellian expertise as shapeshifter. You'd have to include the integrative holism from Smuts for it to ground sensibly though.

     A positional generator of generic leftist thought and advice would have a mentoring effect. It would also be oracular when prompted to opinionate on the likeliest outcome of situations, so it would have tactical application on a utility basis.
     • weka 2.1.1

       15 July 2023 at 11:04 am

       You might enjoy this. It's a short short story about AI, humans and ethics.

       https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

       Some days I can’t decide if it’s better for a hard climate crash so nature takes this shit out of our hands once and for all. By our hands I mean tech culture run by men with little social or community or nature intelligence. Don't know why we do that, but I don't understand why we are allowing catastrophic CC either.
       • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1

         15 July 2023 at 11:48 am

         It's interesting, but. Uploading a brain scan while assuming one can thereby simulate a mind features at least conceptual flaw. You can indeed achieve mimesis by getting AI behind the simulation, but resemblance to an actual human is slight.

         Thinking is mostly driven by feeling. Neuroscientists now collectively acknowledge this (paradigm shift in the 1990s). People evolve as individuals on that organic basis. Neuroplasticity is now proven. We evolve via interaction with circumstance. AI does that without feelings.

         Now women have always known that due to their different organic connection to Gaia but men are mostly slow learners so the gnosis is still percolating through…
       • Cricklewood 2.1.1.2

         15 July 2023 at 5:58 pm

         Sadly human nature puts us on a hard landing as far as climate change is concerned. On one hand we look at say farming and ruminant animals but at the same time our appetite for fossil fuels increases.

         https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/radar-shows-record-breaking-number-flights-one-day#:~:text=That%20record%2Dsetting%20day%2C%20the,it%20tracked%20134%2C386%20commercial%20flights.
3. joe90 3

   15 July 2023 at 8:33 am

   Poot's new Gulag Archipelago.

   Thousands of Ukraine civilians are being held in Russian prisons. Russia plans to build many more.

   […]

   

   Thousands of Ukrainian civilians are being detained across Russia and the Ukrainian territories it occupies, in centers ranging from brand-new wings in Russian prisons to clammy basements. Most have no status under Russian law

   And Russia is planning to hold possibly thousands more. A Russian government document obtained by The Associated Press dating to January outlined plans to create 25 new prison colonies and six other detention centers in occupied Ukraine by 2026.

   In addition, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree in May allowing Russia to send people from territories with martial law, which includes all of occupied Ukraine, to those without, such as Russia. This makes it easier to deport Ukrainians who resist Russian occupation deep into Russia indefinitely, which has happened in multiple cases documented by the AP.

   Many civilians are picked up for alleged transgressions as minor as speaking Ukrainian or simply being a young man in an occupied region, and are often held without charge. Others are charged as terrorists, combatants, or people who “resist the special military operation.” Hundreds are used for slave labor by Russia’s military, for digging trenches and other fortifications, as well as mass graves.

   https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-prisons-civilians-torture-detainees-88b4abf2efbf383272eed9378be13c72
4. pat 4

   15 July 2023 at 8:53 am

   Finally….the facts are beginning to be recognised.

   https://thekaka.substack.com/p/matariki-special-interview-danyl#details

   A brief discussion well worth the listen.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   15 July 2023 at 8:57 am

   Deplorables are so infectious they can get in anywhere. They've gotten into Labour:

   That the New Zealand Labour Party has meekly accepted the Captain’s Call of its Leader, Chris Hipkins, that his government will not introduce either a Wealth Tax or a Capital Gains Tax (CGT) while he’s the one in charge is deplorable. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/07/14/captains-call/

   Better get Hilary Clinton onto the situation, with her laser-like identification abilities she'll spot them & root them out. We can but deplore the contamination.
   • Dennis Frank 5.1

     15 July 2023 at 9:02 am

     Ever since the political divisions unleashed in the 1980s, the strongest factions in the Labour Party (which Hipkins has been careful to cultivate) have thought it wiser to keep control of the losing side in the class war, than lose control of the winning side.

     https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/07/14/captains-call/

     This appears to be the `suckers will always vote Labour' theory. Covert support for National is not really a leftist thing, and the PM does it to seem centrist instead.
6. Bearded Git 6

   15 July 2023 at 10:36 am

   If I can get a word in here in the Dennis Frank Open Mike, this is a weird article by Luke Malpass today. He takes a series of shots at Hipkins, Robertson, and Labour (as usual) but concludes that Hipkins got it right in ruling out a WT and CGT.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/132546724/changing-the-tax-system-was-not-an-electionwinning-strategy-for-labour

   For instance:

   "But of concern was the weird competing mish-mash of objectives which the Treasury identified itself and said that Robertson prioritised. These included raising enough revenue, being considered fair and helping social cohesion. The system would also have to meet Robertson’s “distributional objectives for progressivity, horizontal equity and reducing inequality”, and “the revenue strategy needs to align with your economic goals (high wage, low emissions, economic security."

   All of those objectives look entirely sensible to me and not in any way out of the ordinary. They are not a "mish-mash".

   The below is particularly interesting, and should boost the Green's party vote:

   "Polling seen by Stuff and commissioned by the Green Party before the revelation of Labour’s abandoned tax plans, did show potential Green voter reaction to a tax-free threshold. More than 87% of potential voters sitting on the fence whether to switch to Green were favourably inclined towards a tax-free threshold (or zone as Robertson called in on Thursday) and 68% of the same group were keen on a wealth tax."

   But Malpass is off-beam below because TPM has ruled out going into a coalition that contained ACT. (The Coaltion of Cu*ts)

   "What will be worrying Labour a lot more is the fact that Te Pāti Māori is now more or less assumed to need to be part of the mix for Labour to win power again in virtually all polls, while National and ACT will not necessarily need the party if the numbers fall the right way."
   • weka 6.1

     15 July 2023 at 11:10 am

     What's the theory about Labour worring about needing TPM? The kinds of concessions post-election? Or losing votes as the election campaign period shows TPM as necessary?
     • Bearded Git 6.1.1

       15 July 2023 at 11:29 am

       His main point is that past polls had given Labour hope that they would have been able to govern with just the Greens for support, but now the polls are showing that they will need both the Greens and TPM to govern.

       Some people may prefer not to vote for a coalition that includes TPM, but then other people (just as many, if not more IMHO) will prefer not to vote for a coalition that includes ACT.
     • Belladonna 6.1.2

       15 July 2023 at 11:46 am

       From the article

       It is the nature of MMP that small parties get outsized influence on Government – think about NZ First’s three-time being the kingmakers.

       National will be pressing hard on the fact that a vote for Labour is a vote for the Greens or Te Pāti Māori. This isn't a racist dog whistle, but recognises the fact that both of these parties sit at the political edges.

       Labour and the Greens will be saying the same thing about ACT and National.
     • Alan 6.1.3

       15 July 2023 at 11:49 am

       both
       • bwaghorn 6.1.3.1

         15 July 2023 at 2:31 pm

         If you are genuinely worried then you better vote labour so they don't need tpm,

         Tpm will be a minor party under a strong leader with Hipkins so I'm not to worried 😉
         • Alan 6.1.3.1.1

           15 July 2023 at 4:43 pm

           But Labour and TPM are diametrically opposed on a number of key issues, good luck running that.
           • Patricia Bremner 6.1.3.1.1.1

             15 July 2023 at 4:47 pm

             So Alan, you are by inference saying Act and National are more aligned? Tui
             Luxon won’t want to share.
             Black Adder(Luxon)” I am leader!!”
             Baldrick (Seymour) “I have a cunning plan”.
             • Cricklewood …

               15 July 2023 at 6:32 pm

               Without doubt they are more aligned. Both know who they are there to look after.

               Labour is closer to National than TPM and probably the greens as well.
               • Patricia Bremner …

                 15 July 2023 at 7:41 pm

                 Wot??? So National would have supported businesses and workers through covid lockdowns and the fallout? "Na mate ya dreaming"
                 • Cricklewood …

                   15 July 2023 at 7:49 pm

                   They would most definetly supported business… workers not so much. But the point remains Nat and Act know who they are governing for.

                   Labour on the other hand seem conflicted hence Hipkins ruling out cgt wealth tax etc
           • bwaghorn 6.1.3.1.1.2

             15 July 2023 at 5:32 pm

             Care to elaborate?
7. Dennis Frank 7

   15 July 2023 at 10:49 am

   Here's a scientific appraisal of the new El Nino: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/climate-changes-dangerous-new-fires

   Southern states of Australia, such as Victoria and South Australia, which already experience the country's hottest heatwaves, could see hot days become hotter by up to 4C. These conditions, which often occur during an El Niño, can lead to reduced rainfall, higher temperatures and a greater risk of bushfires. Across Europe, heatwaves may become hotter by up to 10C and some heatwaves will last up to two months by the end of this century. In just the next 20 years, the US will experience three to five more heatwaves every decade compared to the second half of the 20th Century.

   A Royal Commission initiated after Australia's Black Summer fire disaster pointed to an urgent need to improve disaster management capabilities in order to respond to more frequent, intense, complex and costly fires under a changing climate. This can be done in all of three ways: first, limit the vulnerability of communities and ecosystems to fire; second, limit communities and ecosystems exposure to fire; third, limit the fire itself.

   That's their operational triad strategy for firestorms. Reportage of these globally ought to hone in on an analytical framing based on regional vulnerability flagged by repetition.
   • Bearded Git 7.1

     15 July 2023 at 11:32 am

     The experts were forecasting lots of snow down here in the Southern Lakes when El Nino took effect. Certainly not happening at the moment.
     • Dennis Frank 7.1.1

       15 July 2023 at 11:36 am

       Too soon, I assume. Think we're in the transitional phase, the switch-over of the oscillation. Remember that's driven by an immense ocean current. Inertial.
       • Bearded Git 7.1.1.1

         15 July 2023 at 2:32 pm

         Yes it seems to be taking longer than they predicted…the skifields will be tearing there hair out. Still, they sold masses of season passes.
     • bwaghorn 7.1.2

       15 July 2023 at 2:33 pm

       17 degrees lurking round in the wellington sunshine yesterday, that can't be normal for july
       • I Feel Love 7.1.2.1

         15 July 2023 at 2:38 pm

         15 here in Dunedin mid afternoon, barmy hot night too.
     • Anne 7.1.3

       15 July 2023 at 5:18 pm

       Too soon BG.

       We're still in a bit of a limbo between La Nina and El Nino. Climactic changes on a world-wide scale take time to bed in.

       What we can look forward to in NZ is a much drier summer than the last one (phew) but with slightly cooler temperatures and westerly quarter winds, The big stand out will be the west coast of the Sth. Island which will have a higher than normal rainfall.

       Sorry Coasters, its your turn now.
       • Bearded Git 7.1.3.1

         16 July 2023 at 6:52 am

         Thanks Anne….my timing was probably off, though I could have sworn I heard El Nino would influence the weather and bring snow this year. Maybe they readjusted their forecasts.

         BTW (you will hate me for this) it was an incredibly dry and lovely summer down here in Wanaka. Even the farmers aren't too bothered when it is so hot and dry these days as they have large-scale pivot irrigation in place.
         • Anne 7.1.3.1.1

           16 July 2023 at 11:07 am

           I was one of the thousands of Aucklanders whose home was flooded. Fortunately I'm two-storied so was able to continue to live upstairs but it hasn't been pleasant – at times stressful. Finally after a six month wait the rebuild downstairs has begum in earnest and should be completed soon.

           I can count myself lucky because the workload is so enormous they will still be repairing and rebuilding for another year or two – and that is just Auckland.
       • Hunter Thompson II 7.1.3.2

         16 July 2023 at 10:02 am

         God's mill grinds slow but sure

         (17th century proverb with its source in Plutarch)
         • Anne 7.1.3.2.1

           16 July 2023 at 11:09 am

           
     • aj 7.1.4

       15 July 2023 at 6:32 pm

       Periods of unusually warm air aloft in the mid latitudes have limited new snowfall and partially destroyed what has fallen earlier. Very poor for snowmaking as well. Forget trying to forecast by using historical seasonal snowfalls. It's a new paradigm.

       Hope they get a couple of one-off events to get things going.
       • Bearded Git 7.1.4.1

         16 July 2023 at 6:53 am

         Wait for when snow is not forecast-that is when we get the blizzards.
         • aj 7.1.4.1.1

           16 July 2023 at 10:30 am

           Don't be too hard on them

           

           Wednesday.
           • aj 7.1.4.1.1.1

             20 July 2023 at 12:43 pm

             Damn. Low enough but precipitation fizzed out, barely a few cm. No use to anyone, but at least colder for snow making.

             Coronet Webcam:

             https://www.queenstownairport.co.nz/WebCam/coronet.jpg?dt=2023-07-20-12-41
8. PsyclingLeft.Always 8

   15 July 2023 at 11:09 am

   The levels detected in the new GNS study in groundwater and streams around Pukekohe and Bombay are as high as 19mg per litre, eight times the 'national bottom line' in rivers.

   It also shows just how long nitrates hang around: Even if all polluting stopped tomorrow, they would not be gone from groundwater till as late as 2080.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/493742/high-levels-of-toxic-nitrates-in-water-moving-under-and-through-south-auckland-to-harbour-research-shows

   Who will care for our water…if NAct get control? I fully get that things ARE bad now. I know some, are fighting to undo many generations of poisoning our water. A very hard road.

   But, IMO, the Nats…led by Act (and Groundswill et al) will just ignore any and all danger signs. Climate Change, Nitrates in water, River Health…all will be dismissed as "unnecessary distractions" !

   And on that….if those creeps do scrape in….who will care about this?

   DOC managing over 300 contaminated sites on West Coast

   Some of the identified landfills include old dumps previously used by the small communities scattered along the 650km West Coast.

   A well known example is the former Westland District Council Fox Glacier dump which spilled into the Fox River in March 2019 during a weather bomb – sparking a major environmental disaster.

   The dump's contents were strewn down 21km of the Fox riverbed through the Westland Tai Poutini National Park and then along 64km of coastline.

   The subsequent massive clean-up cost over $3.3 million.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/492164/doc-managing-over-300-contaminated-sites-on-west-coast

   IMO it would be…"Nothing to see here, move along". The creeps ignore the fact…there is ALWAYS a cost. That Someone in the future has to pay.
9. Incognito 9

   15 July 2023 at 11:15 am

   It also shows just how long nitrates hang around: Even if all polluting stopped tomorrow, they would not be gone from groundwater till as late as 2080.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/493742/high-levels-of-toxic-nitrates-in-water-moving-under-and-through-south-auckland-to-harbour-research-shows

   Will Wayne Brown fix it?
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 9.1

     15 July 2023 at 11:17 am

     How many buckets has he got?
     • Incognito 9.1.1

       15 July 2023 at 11:51 am

       Buckets are not in Wayne’s job description, apparently.

       His mandate is to ‘fix Auckland’. Indeed, he’s been very busy neutering local democracy reporting and slagging off democratically elected Councillors. Luckily, he’ll be gone long before those nitrates.
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 9.1.1.1

         15 July 2023 at 12:18 pm

         Aye. Some people have a Greater Good thought …"I would like to make/have made, our Earth a better place, when I go ".

         Wayne Brown…only fulfils the specific minimum of that sentiment.

         I know there are many more who actually care for, and about, our Earth.

         Why..are we ruled by the (very) small people who dont? I know…age old, unanswerable really.

         A terrible fact…

         There has been a reported 627% increase in nitrogen fertiliser use in Aotearoa between 1990 and 2019.

         https://www.pmcsa.ac.nz/topics/nitrates/

         Anyway…when i was looking for who cares… I found this? Anyone on the Standard know if they do?

         https://waicare.org.nz/Home.aspx

         https://waicare.org.nz/Mountains-to-the-sea/WaiCareFacts.aspx
         • Shanreagh 9.1.1.1.1

           15 July 2023 at 8:26 pm

           Aye. Some people have a Greater Good thought …"I would like to make/have made, our Earth a better place, when I go ".

           Wayne Brown…only fulfils the specific minimum of that sentiment.

           I think he fulfils even less……in that sentence only one word applies 'I'.

           
   • Phillip ure 9.2

     15 July 2023 at 1:39 pm

     People stopping eating animals/bye-products will 'fix it'..

     But much easier to just point fingers elsewhere…eh..?
     • Incognito 9.2.1

       15 July 2023 at 2:04 pm

       Please read the linked article before you pollute this site with your high levels of nonsense.

       "It also talks about the fact that it is partly coming from horticultural land … and the Auckland Council itself says that those horticultural systems are often over-fertilised."

       […]

       "We're obviously very aware that the urban development into the South Auckland area will also have a bearing on some of the sort of outcomes for water."
       • Phillip ure 9.2.1.1

         15 July 2023 at 2:42 pm

         What exactly is 'nonsense' in my comment…

         This whole country is a fucken toxic mess..as a direct result of animal/flesh farming..

         And those who eat that flesh pontificating about nitrate pollution..and ignoring what they do that directly causes that nitrate pollution..

         What would you call that..?

         Some call it cognitive dissonance.. don't they..?

         And some of these nitrates comes from over fertilised councils parks..?

         Well that makes me an effing liar then doesn't it..

         And/or it gives you an overlay of pedantry..on top of yr cog-diss..

         ..doesn't it..?

         Your denial of what you do..

         Makes what you say a 'nonsense'..
         • Incognito 9.2.1.1.1

           15 July 2023 at 4:50 pm

           And he comes back with even more nonsense!

           And those who eat that flesh pontificating about nitrate pollution..and ignoring what they do that directly causes that nitrate pollution..

           You’re barking up the wrong tree.

           And some of these nitrates comes from over fertilised councils parks..?

           Who’s bleating on about cognitive dissonance? Read the article, the linked study in it, and the comments and switch on your brain!

           The study said: "Market gardening dominates the Pukekohe and Bombay basalts, which are subject to nitrate loss into groundwater… High nitrates from the springs dominate nitrate concentrations in receiving streams."

           The council was sending the study to mana whenua and growers, and Allen said it would help them discuss what to do together about it, including regulatory and non-regulatory responses to land use.

           Take your hobby horse somewhere else instead of hijacking the conversations of others.
           • Phillip ure 9.2.1.1.1.1

             15 July 2023 at 7:05 pm

             Nice bit of denigration there…

             And my 'hobby-horse'..?

             You call my arguing against what is fucking our country/world/future a 'hobby horse'..?

             Your disconnection from your own role as part of the problem is epic…

             And I don't have a hobby-horse..

             I have a stampeding fucken herd of hobby-horses..

             How long have ya got..?
             • Incognito …

               15 July 2023 at 7:18 pm

               Your disconnection from your own role as part of the problem is epic…

               Whoa! You’re pissing in the wind so much that your nitrates seep into the groundwater of South Auckland.

               I post a comment about nitrates coming from horticulture and you start accusing me of cannibalism and scorching the Earth.

               Your ‘stampeding fucken herd of hobby-horses’ is heading for a Mod note. Just saying.
               • Phillip ure …

                 16 July 2023 at 6:21 pm

                 Where did I accuse you of cannibalism..?
                 • Phillip ure …

                   16 July 2023 at 6:28 pm

                   And my initial comment was addressed to flesh eating/finger pointing readers of this thread..

                   It was not directed at you per se..

                   The first word was ‘people’…how is that in any way directed just at you..?
     • bwaghorn 9.2.2

       15 July 2023 at 2:37 pm

       Appears to be from growing veges and fruit🥵 here's the embarresd emoji you'll be looking for
       • Phillip ure 9.2.2.1

         15 July 2023 at 2:45 pm

         Being a vegan does not mean I support drenching fruit/veges in poisonous shit.

         ..save that emoji for yourself..
10. Francesca 10

    15 July 2023 at 11:49 am

    Julian Batchelor came to town yesterday, accompanied by provocateur Lee Williams, who stalked about trying to encourage bad behaviour amongst the counter protestors, shoving cameras into their faces and filming constantly .

    Batchelor had a tiny audience, mostly elderly or getting there, probably NZ first supporters .Frail and worried , not sure whats going on , scared Mãori are taking over

    The counter protest was orderly,gentle, fun with wonderful waiata , a brilliant wahine toa performing with actions

    Lee Williams got into a scuffle and was I think arrested.Unbelievable that his level of racist toxicity has a following

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82RM6FPpy4A

    Nasty stuff
    • Francesca 10.1

      15 July 2023 at 11:54 am

      Just about got me voting for TPM.
      Was puzzled by the Christian interest in this horrible road show
      • tWiggle 10.1.1

        15 July 2023 at 1:26 pm

        Batchelor is an evangelical preacher, and claims to have been given 80 reasons by his god why most christians do not actively evangelise. (From LinkdIn profile). His self-published book and his Treaty lectures include some of his evangelical material.
    • Patricia Bremner 10.2

      15 July 2023 at 1:22 pm

      Nasty type. The Harangue reminded me of someone.
11. Dennis Frank 11

    15 July 2023 at 1:08 pm

    Been reading Michener's Poland and came across his description of a woman being crowned king in the 14th century. Since he was an historical novelist, thought I'd check he got the history right, and he did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadwiga_of_Poland

    Jadwiga was crowned king in Poland's capital, Kraków, on 16 October 1384.

    Also, her sister likewise:

    Mary, also known as Maria of Anjou, reigned as King of Hungary and Croatia between 1382 and 1385, and from 1386 until her death. She was the daughter of Louis the Great, King of Hungary and Poland, and his wife, Elizabeth of Bosnia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Queen_of_Hungary

    Notice how the editors of Wikipedia have misrepresented this political reality by calling her Queen both in their page title and the link. Sexist!

    If you read up on their mother you see she was daughter of a Bosnian king who became queen of three other countries when she married Louis the Great. Accession to the monarchy directly rather than via marriage is the difference between her and those two daughters, apparently. The English did that accession titling differently…
    • Patricia Bremner 11.1

      15 July 2023 at 2:15 pm

      Thanks for the prod. That goes on my list.

      I read several of his novels as they drew on actual events and characters, but woven into an interesting read. eg "Hawaii."

      I enjoyed Asimov as his stories are based on Science facts to build more credible Science fiction. A great discussion vehicle was the short story "The Sentinel." Cheers.
12. newsense 12

    15 July 2023 at 3:24 pm

    Anyone in this current iteration of the Labour Party worthy of inheriting the mantle of Norm Kirk?

    Not a damn one, as far as I’m can see.
    • Bearded Git 12.1

      15 July 2023 at 4:23 pm

      newsense-see my post below re house policies. Labour not too bad on this?
    • Patricia Bremner 12.2

      15 July 2023 at 5:06 pm

      Look at the loads carried by Andrew Little Nanaia Mahuta Megan Woods Grant Robertson and our current PM.

      The world is an even more complex and dangerous place. Confronting the French / Atomic age and making a good speech measured against…
      how do we confront climate change covid billionaires arms merchants the financial tsunami and AI?
13. Bearded Git 13

    15 July 2023 at 4:21 pm

    Labour have taken a lot of stick over the last few days over the decision to dump both a WT and CGT, deservedly so IMO.

    But in the article below there is a key point of difference between the Nats and Labour on housing policy, where Labour deserves much praise. IMO Labour has it right, and has been successful, on taxes related to houses (bright line test, interest non- allowable), housing density and not permitting houses to be purchased by foreign buyers. (In fact the bright line test is effectively a CGT). This has led to a fairly gentle drop in house prices, though they are still way to high in international terms.

    The Nats have committed to scrapping almost all of this, and they will probably scrap the lot. It just refuses say what its policy is on overseas house purchases.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132544493/national-refuses-to-say-if-party-will-scrap-foreign-homebuyers-ban-if-elected

    I think that this is an election issue Labour is on the right side of with most of the public, and so should be milked.
14. Incognito 14

    15 July 2023 at 5:18 pm

    Congratulations Dr Jacob Ngaha on being awarded your doctorate. He may be Aotearoa's very first Māori quantum physicist.

    He doesn’t agree with his colleagues [in his own faculty at Auckland University] and says mātauranga Māori should be acknowledged.

    “Mātauranga Maori has strong foundations in science. Our tupuna lived these experiences every day and were knowledgeable in areas like biology, genetics, and environmental science. These areas had a grounding in te ao Māori,” he says.

    “At the end of the day, science is about knowledge and figuring things out. There’s not just one way to figure things out. Dismissing Māori teachings outright is not a scientific thing to do.”

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/rising-stars/audio/2018898111/rising-star-quantum-physicist-dr-jacob-ngaha
    • Anne 14.1

      15 July 2023 at 5:36 pm

      From the link:

      He says that Māori come from a long line of natural scientists. For instance, their tupuna navigated the entire Pacific using the stars for direction. With the popularity of Matariki, people are learning more about how Māori used science to help them with every facet of their lives.

      Absolutely true.

      A big "boo" to the NZ academics who have publicly dismissed 'matauranga Maori' as a form of science. There is more than one way to express scientific material and they are to be respected not demeaned. Imo it indicates an elitist ignorance among those who should know better.
    • Patricia Bremner 14.2

      15 July 2023 at 7:50 pm

      Brilliant work and oration.
      • Chess Player 14.2.1

        15 July 2023 at 8:08 pm

        I disagree
        • Molly 14.2.1.1

          15 July 2023 at 9:45 pm

          Me also.

          It takes interpretations of knowledge and treats them as universal truths.

          Which is deliberately manipulative.

          The equivalent of including the Methodist stricture of cleanliness being next to Godliness in med school, instead of determining the science around contamination, and teaching how to avoid it.
15. joe90 15

    15 July 2023 at 6:49 pm

    Mr Cusack's on fire.

    @johncusack

    These execs make 30 40 million a year – and one even saying publicly “ we’re just gonna wait ‘em out – you know till people get evicted loose their homes – we gonna bust the union “ THIS is who they are – They are trying to break you – ruin you – for having the temerity to ask for your fair share – they want to punish – grind your face in the dirt for even thinking about it –

    https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/1679980757874274305

    @johncusack

    This is not about the entertainment business – or the coffee business Or the retail business Or any specific business – it’s about all of them – This is about the class war from above – being waged against labor across the board-

    @johncusack

    It’s all the same thing – Writers actors Amazon workers Starbucks workers ,nurses ,airline workers – ( add list for another ten pages ) Everyone who’s striking – they want living wages – the system is so unbelievably insanely corrupt – Jamie Dimon can get 12 billion cash – 100 % cents on the dollars for the money he lost in his derivatives scam – he gets an absolute bailout – for his criminal banking disasters – So – one set of rules for elites – and another for workers – meaning normal people get the shaft – People who get sick or want an education – are fucked – the money lenders want you in debtors jail or bankrupt – you lend someone money and they rig it so you can never pay off the loan 3 4 5 6 10 times the principal – that’s USURY. Yet routinely They “ forgive“ billions to oligarchs – free money whenever they say so . And if people and workers just say stop the usury pay a living wage – healthcare is a human right – the same overlords and their hired bullshit – SAY WHAT ?? WHY THATS SOCIALISM ! Or spew out various other nonsensical bullshit – So socialism for the .oooo1 % Savage predatory capitalism for everyone else . That’s why we have to strike in solidarity with every worker – we need absolute solidarity on race gender issues So we can address CLASS. The oligarchs want more – they want it all –

    https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/1679929595351429120

    https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/1680033522788990979

    (mastadon should be available to all)

    @[email protected]

    John Cusack is tweeting out some of the dirty secrets of Hollywood accounting — and it's pretty illuminating.

    https://mastodon.online/@stevenrosenthal/110713265829641262

    ·
16. Dennis Frank 16

    15 July 2023 at 8:44 pm

    Jack Tame discusses the existential lesson to be taken from the PM's pragmatism: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jack-tame-three-waters-wealth-tax-is-labour-sacrificing-its-political-vision-to-try-and-win-an-election/6I6LXUAA3BHGHFLWOTOQHXTQSE/

    The nature of political leadership is that sometimes you have to make unpopular calls for the greater good. As much as voters have a collective wisdom, they’re also human. They’re motivated by short-term incentives.

    Everyone wants more for less. I suspect that many of those who vehemently oppose Three Waters, for example, have also railed for decades against the rates increases that might have gone some way to developing water infrastructure and removing the need for the reforms in the first place.

    If you’re only prepared to make popular decisions, then what is the point in leadership? It’s not really leadership, is it? It’s just focus-grouping. Polling. Instead of laying out a platform, debating its merits and pursuing a distinct vision, you might as well just have a smartphone app or a website on which everyone votes on every little policy so that you can be sure you never fall afoul of the masses.

    I’m not remotely surprised by Chris Hipkins’ captain’s call on tax this week. The Prime Minister has made it clear from day one that his absolute priority is winning the election. But I do wonder if somewhere on the ninth floor, at some point, Labour’s strategists find themselves in an existential bind. If the cost of winning an election means sacrificing your political vision, then what’s the point in winning?

    To be a winner, obviously. It's a status thing. Nor is it a matter of the vision thing – a better world is only important to people who don't really matter. So the PM's gamble is based on assuming that his colleagues have faith in his ability to win, and won't deselect him as leader this close to the election, and he can win by citing the meagre achievements of this govt because the alternative is too unattractive to floaters.
    • Shanreagh 16.1

      15 July 2023 at 9:45 pm

      and he can win by citing the meagre achievements of this govt because the alternative is too unattractive to floaters.

      I actually don't think they are meagre.

      From BG above
      ‘But in the article below there is a key point of difference between the Nats and Labour on housing policy, where Labour deserves much praise. IMO Labour has it right, and has been successful, on taxes related to houses (bright line test, interest non- allowable), housing density and not permitting houses to be purchased by foreign buyers. (In fact the bright line test is effectively a CGT). This has led to a fairly gentle drop in house prices, though they are still way to high in international terms.’

      I agree that the alternative is too unattractive to voters……the ACT policy/critique on school lunches is typical of what we may be in for if a NACT government gets in.
    • Bearded Git 16.2

      16 July 2023 at 6:56 am

      There is zero chance of Hipkins getting rolled Dennis.
      • Dennis Frank 16.2.1

        16 July 2023 at 8:24 am

        Currently true. If the next poll shows Labour dropping further, below 30%, and/or Hipkins below Luxon as preferred PM, game on!

        I reckon there's a divide between those within Labour who see it as a party for making progress in Aotearoa and those who see it as a place-holder for the Nats. Hipkins has revealed to us that he leads the latter group.
17. joe90 17

    15 July 2023 at 9:07 pm

    Bit late, fellas.

    /

    Three former high-ranking Fox executives are blasting Rupert Murdoch for Fox News' role spreading disinformation in the public discourse.

    In a joint statement published Wednesday, the executives — Preston Padden, Ken Solomon, and Bill Reyner — expressed profound regret for their roles helping Murdoch build Fox in its early days. Padden was Fox's chief Washington lobbyist; Solomon was the vice president of network distribution; and Reyner was the lead outside counsel.

    While none of the executives worked on Fox News, the work they did on behalf of Murdoch decades ago established Fox as a national television force and helped pave the way for the birth of the right-wing channel.

    "At the time of our work in the 1990’s, we all greatly admired Rupert Murdoch and his vision and bold efforts," the trio said in their statement. "We genuinely believed that the creation of a fourth competitive force in broadcast television was in the public interest."

    "We never envisioned, and would not knowingly have enabled, the disinformation machine that, in our opinion, Fox has become," they added.

    https://view.newsletters.cnn.com/messages/1689210125470ca4240ec3efd/raw
    • Dennis Frank 17.1

      16 July 2023 at 8:00 am

      Thanks for that. Definitely significant – indicating that even establishment slow-learners can figure things out eventually, given enough time.

      When three people adopt a unified political position, that's a triad. Triads generate process, so there will be a helpful effect on like-minded others. Few moderate Republicans have opposed Trump thus far but I see this as a real indicator of an emerging trend (even if it's too late to stop him getting nominated).
18. tWiggle 18

    15 July 2023 at 9:23 pm

    Maybe it's because of genuine fear of letting an Opposition in power ready to dismantle the country for harvesting by the rich.
    • Shanreagh 18.1

      15 July 2023 at 9:49 pm

      Yes and this is a genuine fear from me, having been around when this was last done in the time of Douglas/Richardson.

      We sold much of the family silver after low ball offers, the ones who gained either on-sold or asset stripped.

      I agree we don't need this again tWiggle.
19. adam 19

    15 July 2023 at 11:12 pm

    Interesting, for anyone who is interested in the problems associated with letting corporations run medicine.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13998

    Lest we forget

    https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2023/02/22/there-is-a-worrying-amount-of-fraud-in-medical-research

    Sorry pay walled, but the first two paragraphs which are not, offer a good insight to the whole piece.
    • Molly 19.1

      16 July 2023 at 8:55 am

      Economist article has been archived:

      https://archive.ph/p6eu9
      • adam 19.1.1

        16 July 2023 at 3:20 pm

        Thanks for that Molly

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