Open mike 16/12/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 16th, 2020 - 104 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

104 comments on “Open mike 16/12/2020 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Phillip ure 1
    16 December 2020 at 8:10 am

    I know that some people live without dogs in their lives..

    but I find it hard to figure out why..?

    why would you do that..?

    • bwaghorn 1.1
      16 December 2020 at 8:17 am

      I know! I've got 8 of the buggers .

      • Phillip ure 1.1.1
        16 December 2020 at 8:33 am

        yr giving me dog-envy here…I only have two..

        with five having been my dog-peak in the past..

      • Phillip ure 1.2.1
        16 December 2020 at 8:36 am

        ?

        • JanM 1.2.1.1
          16 December 2020 at 9:53 am

          It's not really the dogs that are the problem it's their dimwitted owners. I live on an estuary and get sick of owners letting their dogs chase wading birds who are minding their own business and having lunch. I stay sometimes at Piha where I watch entitled owners walk past the signs that say no dogs because of nesting penguins – belonging, I presume to the 'my dog wouldn't' brigade. I also have issues with being sniffed at in the street while the owner tries to reassure me that it won't bite. That's not the point – I don't want to be sniffed either!

          • Phillip ure 1.2.1.1.1
            16 December 2020 at 11:36 am

            well..I get yr point..

            but as it turns out mine 'wouldn't'..

            they are both re-homed ex pig-hunting dogs ..

            and pig hunting dogs are trained to hunt wild pigs..

            ..and to be nice to/studiously ignore all other living creatures…

            and so…unlike cats…they don't prey on native birds..

          • halfcrown 1.2.1.1.2
            16 December 2020 at 6:35 pm

            Nice one JanM Agree 200%, especially the,

            " I don't want to be sniffed either!" bit.

            I remember a few years ago some snot got most upset as I did not want his slobbering dog rubbing its filthy face up against my clothing I didn't want to go home smelling of this dog. something a lot of dog owners don't get.

    • RosieLee 1.3
      16 December 2020 at 8:45 am

      Dogs. Husbands. Whatever. Give me a cat any day.

      • Janice 1.3.1
        16 December 2020 at 10:39 am

        Agree yes

      • The Al1en 1.3.2
        16 December 2020 at 10:42 am

        Yeah, dogs are for people searching for a subservient pet to control, those who don't have the personality to deal with living with an independent apex predator.

      • alwyn 1.3.3
        16 December 2020 at 3:08 pm

        I think Winston Churchill had it right.

        He said "I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals".

        He might, of course, have been thinking of the people he met in the House of Commons. There aren't many cats or dogs there.

        • Phillip ure 1.3.3.1
          16 December 2020 at 3:27 pm

          pigs are awesome…

          so so clever..

          • Andre 1.3.3.1.1
            16 December 2020 at 3:31 pm

            … so so tasty… mmmmm, bacon …

            • Phillip ure 1.3.3.1.1.1
              16 December 2020 at 4:30 pm

              so so original…

            • Ed 1.3.3.1.1.2
              16 December 2020 at 4:52 pm

              You should look at how pigs are farmed nowadays.

              Your pleasure = their pain.

                • Phillip ure …
                  16 December 2020 at 6:01 pm

                  mmm..!..bowel cancer…

                  but idiots won't be told..

                  will they..

                  • Andre …
                    16 December 2020 at 6:14 pm

                    Y'know, I actually eat very little meat. Maybe 150g a week, on average. As much as anything else, because I really can’t be arsed learning about how to ensure I get enough of all the nutrients needs from a vegetarian diet, and even if I did get the knowledge, I wouldn’t be arsed following it when just a small amount of meat easily provides those nutrients that are hard to get from a vegetarian diet.

                    But somehow, sanctimonious twattery against meat-eating always gives me an irresistable urge to go snarf down a big chunk of gruesomely murdered and hacked up dead animal.

                    BTW, there are lots of good arguments for reducing meat consumption, or at least biasing the mix away from beef and lamb towards chicken and pork. But the colon cancer thing is really one of the feeblest of the many arguments against eating meat.

                    • Phillip ure …
                      16 December 2020 at 6:22 pm

                      fact..nz has very high consumption of animal flesh..

                      nz has very high rates of bowel cancer…

                      you join the dots..eh..?

                      like I said: 'idiots can't be told'..

                    • Jester …
                      16 December 2020 at 10:15 pm

                      I don't eat a lot of red meat now, but I enjoy a good steak about once every two weeks. Eating more chicken, fish and pork these days. But certainly do not want to give it up.

              • Phillip ure …
                16 December 2020 at 6:05 pm

                they don't fucken care about that..

                they can't claim to not know..

                so they just don't care..

                their cannablistic addiction to eating flesh over-rules that..

                • Phillip ure …
                  16 December 2020 at 6:18 pm

                  then there are the idiots who preen that (middle-class boast) that they 'only eat organic' chickens/whatever..

                  they seem deluded to such a degree that they think they are the 'good guys'..and that the exploiters who peddle these organic animals are somehow green/good guys…

                  ..which is bullshit in both cases..

                  as just one example…what do they think happens to all the male chicks on 'organic'farms..?

                  ..like on the blatantly cruel chicken farms..these cute little chicks are fed(still alive) into the macerator..

                  this grinds them up…as I said..while they are still alive..

                  use that nugget of knowledge to wash down your next mouthful of chicken flesh..eh..?

                  organic..or not..

                  and think about what is done in your name..

                  the unholy trinity ..

                  cruelty..cancer…and fucking the planet…

                  just to eat flesh…

                  what a deal..!

                  • Andre …
                    16 December 2020 at 6:31 pm

                    On that note, I've just been inspired to head into town to find some kind of bogan joint to chow down a month's worth of my normal consumption in one sitting.

                    I'll very likely regret it later tonight and tomorrow morning, but I'll blame that on you, too.

                    • alwyn …
                      16 December 2020 at 8:42 pm

                      Having read through everything that followed from my Churchillian quote I'm not sure I should have offered it.

                      That is particularly the case since I have just finished dinner where I had an truly excellent fillet steak. Cooked about halfway between saignant and bleu. Quite wonderful. It absolutely melted in the mouth.

                      Sorry Phillip, but that is not something I am willing to give up.

                    • Phillip ure []
                      16 December 2020 at 9:27 pm

                      addictions are like that..

                      I used to feel the same way about heroin and cocaine mixed together in a syringe..

                      ..addictions are like that..

                • Incognito …
                  16 December 2020 at 9:08 pm

                  The Silence of the Lambs.

      • halfcrown 1.3.4
        16 December 2020 at 6:36 pm

        That's a bit hard Rosie, dogs are not that bad.smiley

    • Janet 1.4
      16 December 2020 at 9:38 am

      You obviously were not brought up on a farm before Hydatdids was erradicated. I still feel uneasy with dogs near me. I have had to give up on cats because I live in an area of ecological importance. I am hoping for a big rabbit for Xmas !

    • Drowsy M. Kram 1.5
      16 December 2020 at 10:55 am

      Some 34 per cent of New Zealand’s 1.8 million households had at least one dog, up from 28 per cent previously.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123250174/kiwis-seek-comfort-of-pets-during-covid-splash-out-on-premium-petfood

      Amazing that ~2/3rds of NZ households manage ‘sans dog’ – some will have cats!

      Kiwis love their cats – nearly half of NZ households have at least one. As cat lovers, we take the responsibility of cat ownership very seriously.
      https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/resources/owning-a-cat

      Used to care for a 'pet', but it was a bit of a luxury. https://www.petplan.co.nz/

  2. Ad 2
    16 December 2020 at 8:21 am

    Will the new Minister of Transport pull some reins around Waka Kotahi NZTA?

    I am hearing multiple signature projects that I won't list here are billions over budget with many pushed out a decade due to redesign and others with governance changes. This is on top of the billion-plus blowout we've already seen this week.

    This is the agency now in charge of changing the largest proportion of our CO2 emissions.

    Chair Brian Roche is far more powerful than the Minister of Transport.

  3. Ed 3
    16 December 2020 at 8:23 am

    Bomber Bradbury has made some interesting predictions for 2021.

    He predicts significant social unrest, a crime wave, a dangerous expansion of the meth trade and unemployment, poverty, homelessness and inequality to rise.

    Our extreme centrist neoliberal government does not have the tools to fix the issues.

    Only a people’s republic of Aotearoa will be able to implement the necessary economic, social and ecological revolution to prepare us for the tsunami of challenges climate change will present us.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/12/16/2021-the-year-sht-hits-the-fan-predictions/

    • Phillip ure 3.1
      16 December 2020 at 12:18 pm

      I agree with your last paragraph..

      neoliberal governments are too in thrall to vested interests..to be up for the job..

      ('exempting agriculture' being a recent potent example of that thrall/vested interests neoliberal paradigm..)

      ..and we are fishing out the oceans..and the current reformist activity is to try to let those ocean predators allow us to film them doing this..

      how seriously fucked up/impotent is that..?

      • Phillip ure 3.1.1
        16 December 2020 at 12:42 pm

        b.t.w….fish have central nervous systems remarkably similar to ours..

        so..if you can imagine the hook thru the cheek/in the stomach…then the hauling in../then the drowning in air..

        ..you kinda get the idea/picture..

  4. Ed 4
    16 December 2020 at 8:34 am

    Idiot Savant, the author of the No Right Turn, is an excellent and succinct commentator who does not subscribe to the failed liberal ideology.

    In a recent blog, he pointed out the world can see through our bullshit about climate change. He records that …..

    ”Over the weekend, countries which are serious about climate change got together virtually at the international Climate Ambition Summit 2020. But New Zealand pointedly was not invited:”

    The Green Party leaders should not have signed up to this government.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2020/12/climate-change-calling-us-on-our.html

    • dv 5.1
      16 December 2020 at 9:03 am

      Geez, we have had fusion for ever!!

      Its called the sun.

    • Alice Tectonite 5.2
      16 December 2020 at 10:51 am

      They've been serious about fusion power since the 1950s, still haven't got sustained fusion. Always been 10 to 20 years away.

      The promise of "the Sun in a bottle" has meant incalculable time, energy and resources invested this vision of a clean, never-ending fuel source.

      (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201214-the-uks-quest-for-affordable-fusion-by-2040)

      … He has been eight years upon a project for extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers, which were to be put in phials hermetically sealed, and let out to warm the air in raw inclement summers. He told me, he did not doubt, that, in eight years more, he should be able to supply the governor's gardens with sunshine, at a reasonable rate …

      (Swift 1726. Gulliver's Travels)

      IMO bottled sunshine isn't the only thing these projects have in common …

      • SPC 5.2.1
        17 December 2020 at 8:38 am

        Meanwhile, the Iter fusion reactor in France is currently 70% constructed and is expected to achieve first plasma in 2025. This is will be a fully-working demonstration fusion reactor, providing 500 megawatts of fusion power – enough, if converted to electricity, to power a city the size of Liverpool.

        The main hurdle will be the interface between the new fusion reactor and existing power plant. Sadly, there is no such thing as a USB port for power plants …the time and cost of having to build an entirely new power plant is significant. The comparatively small size of the Step reactor is also advantageous.

        The promise of "the Sun in a bottle" has meant incalculable time, energy and resources invested this vision of a clean, never-ending fuel source. It could have been argued in the 1930s that fusion was folly. But now, we could genuinely have fusion within a few decades’ time.

        https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201214-the-uks-quest-for-affordable-fusion-by-2040

        Put the quote in context.

        • Alice Tectonite 5.2.1.1
          17 December 2020 at 10:25 am

          Still a boondoggle that has consumed a huge amount of research funding over several decades (and looks like it will continue to do so). That funding, IMO, would have (and would be) better spent elsewhere.

  6. Anne 6
    16 December 2020 at 10:07 am

    This story is becoming more harrowing by the day:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/432925/250-000-estimated-to-have-been-abused-in-state-and-faith-based-care

    As a child and teenager, I lived within walking distance of two such homes.

    One was the Owairaka Boys Home in Mt Albert where the "bad boys" lived which has been cited as one of those where serious abuse was occurring. The other in Allendale Rd, Mt Albert where the "bad girls" were housed. The house itself was up a long driveway and couldn't be seen from the road. We were told to cross the road when walking past this address yet in all those years I never saw a single girl coming in or out of them.

    They were not bad kids of course, they were abused kids.

    As a young person I remember sensing something was wrong about both of them but it is only now the truth is coming out.

  7. RedBaronCV 7
    16 December 2020 at 10:41 am

    Okay this data farm would take only 8% of the Manapouri power in the long term for only 25 permanent jobs. But do we want more data farms ? and do we want to sell more power cheaply to them? Or should we sell power at a much higher rate because these places thrive on cheap power. The rest of the story is pretty much overblown PR to disguise the lack of long term country benefits.

    So what would be the best over all economic use for New Zealand for the power the smelter no longer uses? Would it be best to give all NZ households a basic dob of cheap / nearly free power (charge higher usages!) to improve the well being of low income households in particular? It would be the same as a modest benefit increase? Or do we look for manufacturing we could do here that provides good jobs and needs reasonable power prices? Some how I think all this decision making should not be left in the hands of the directors of a power company given the input of the taxpayer in the original build.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123714254/up-to-1200-workers-would-be-needed-to-build-south-island-data-centre

    • Adrian 7.1
      16 December 2020 at 11:23 am

      Laugh all you like but the most enviromently sensible thing to do with the spare Manapouri power ( the current smelter doesn't use all of it ) is to build another aluminium smelter and retire one elsewhere in the world that is powered by electricity produced from coal.

      We have enough wind farm consents approved and ready to go to meet all of our needs for the foreseeable future, including EV transport. Storage is where we are short at the moment.

      • RedBaronCV 7.1.1
        16 December 2020 at 12:00 pm

        I had a brief look at the that . As far as I can see most of the remaining smelters are in Canada powered by hydro or China. There may be a strategic issue there if too much of the refining is done in China – but I don't see them closing smelters.I'm assuming future mining will use solar on the spot to stop the shipping costs.

        So enviroment apart what is the best economic use for the power in NZ?

        • Adrian 7.1.1.1
          16 December 2020 at 3:48 pm

          I think solar might be a bit of a problem as smelting must be a continuous process and with solar and indeed wind overnight and non-wind times would require enormous storage capacity.

          • Andre 7.1.1.1.1
            17 December 2020 at 8:56 am

            There are efforts underway to make smelting more flexible and adaptable to variable electricity supply. Energia Potior (a spinoff from Auckland University) is just one:

            Currently the energy input of a smelter cannot be varied by much more than plus or minus 5%, meaning a smelter essentially operates at full capacity 24/7, 365 days a year, for its entire lifespan.

            …

            EnPot gives smelter operators the ability to turn energy consumption up or down by as much as 30%* to take advantage of off-peak power prices, as well as accommodating the intermittency associated with renewable power supply. It also means production can be better matched to supply and demand.

            https://www.energiapotior.com/

            A solar plant that is likely to significantly supply a smelter may be better suited as a concentrating solar thermal plant, rather than photovoltaic. Concentrating solar thermal plants can easily have their storage sized to give continuous overnight operation, and can also be easily adapted to gas emergency backup to keep things ticking along if really needed.

    • bwaghorn 7.2
      16 December 2020 at 11:59 am

      Got to store those cat photos somewhere

    • infused 7.3
      16 December 2020 at 3:25 pm

      data farms? lol, never heard that before.

      Having more datacenters here in NZ and bringing more of this tech to NZ in general is a good thing.

      I remember the hell that broke out here when Fibre was announced and rolled out around the country. Fast forward to now, and I think it was one of the best decisions National ever made. I recall at the time a whole bunch of people here compared it to 'just being able to download faster'. Well, covid proved that shit wrong.

      Another foot note, Hyper Fibre is going in to my place tomorrow. NZ needs to focus more on tech.

      We have a growing gaming industry here now with growth predictions of 1BN of revenue by 2025. It's all exports.

      • RedBaronCV 7.3.1
        18 December 2020 at 9:17 am

        It's not tech as such. Just a big warehouse of computers operated from overseas. My beef about the fibre broadband is that payment by the taxpayer doesn't seem to mean ownership. But that's the Nats. Business socialism

  8. Treetop 8
    16 December 2020 at 11:05 am

    I would like to see acknowledgement for the damage and harm done to children, information disclosed to complainants, categorisation headings used under the Crimes Act 1961 of offending against every child sexually abused in state care or out of state care and the years of the offending since 1940.

    I am appalled at how files have been treated by the government. In 1986 I tried to get a file of a rape trial and the lawyer told me the file was dumped in a warehouse in boxes and gave a date of a hearing. I did get confirmation from the police in 1990 that there was a trial but the police file had been destroyed. I intend to follow this up. If it is the case the present and past government, MSD and police need to clean this up.

  9. RedBaronCV 9
    16 December 2020 at 11:31 am

    And Ryman healthcare want to hang on to the $14.2mill of subsidies received because

    Ryman Healthcare, the country’s largest retirement village operator, paid $44m in first-half dividends to its shareholders after taking $14.2m in wage subsidies. It has not paid it back.

    Ryman justified the payments by saying it had spent three times the subsidy amount on PPE gear and other procedures such as additional cleaning and extra staff to protect residents and staff.

    Well those reasons above where not the basis on which claims could be made – they were to protect staff wages if they could not work. I'd expect them to be getting a very stiff letter demanding repayment ASAP.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123721687/retirement-village-operator-summerset-to-repay-86m-covid19-wage-subsidy

    • Phillip ure 9.1
      16 December 2020 at 3:06 pm

      rnz news reporting that ryman is also paying back..

      who else is on that list of the undeserving..?

      • James Thrace 9.1.1
        16 December 2020 at 3:35 pm

        Ryman had no other option but to repay it after Summerset came out of the blocks first and said they'd repay it.

        • Phillip ure 9.1.1.1
          16 December 2020 at 6:33 pm

          I think that a citizen based campaign to publicise who these companies are..will be effective..

          (social media..phone calls..picket line..)

          ..and for many who took it..the economic upturn must mean they are doing fine ..

          so…pay it back..!

        • RedBaronCV 9.1.1.2
          16 December 2020 at 9:45 pm

          And publicly admitted they hadn't used the correct criteria? Some lawyer must have given a few words of advice.

      • RedBaronCV 9.1.2
        16 December 2020 at 9:41 pm

        That just about cleans out the NZX top 50. There is another retirement company still to go I think. But – do they have to be humiliated one by one in the media before they think of paying it back. – some moral compass. Even ones that are well within the claim boundary Z say and Auckland Int airport – could look at repaying at some future date when they have recovered a bit more and not rule it out entirely.

        That now just leaves all the listed companies outside the NZX top 50 plus overseas and other privately held organisations. It would be good if the super fund and ACC and other government investment pools holding shares made it clear that as shareholders they expect ethical action and repayment.

        And the IRD needs to publish the whole list because they made it clear from the beginning that they would. Not just give it to the media.
        Taxpayers funds and I bet they’d get at least some people exposed for having claimed without employees being onpaid.

  10. Ed 10
    16 December 2020 at 11:41 am

    Our Child Poverty statistics are appalling.

    Bryan Bruce has written an open letter to the Prime Minister.

    “According to the 2018 census there are an estimated 4,833 children living in dwellings with no amenities.

    Think – that’s the equivalent of the total number of pupils of at least 5 New Zealand High Schools who live in dwellings that have zero….

    Cooking facilities
    Tap water that is safe to drink
    Kitchen sink
    Refrigerator
    Electricity supply
    Refrigerator
    Bath or shower
    Toilet

    Tell me again how addessing Child Poverty in our country is a priority.”

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/12/16/guest-blog-bryan-bruce-dear-prime-minister/

    Chris Trotter wrote an excellent article a month or so ago describing the Professional Managerial Class. Political careerists ( who make up the majority of parliament) should be added to his list of abetters of neoliberalism.

    “ The PMC is distinguished by the role it plays in mediating Capitalism’s relationship with its most injured victims. Without the PMC army of lawyers, probation officers, social workers, health professionals, teachers, journalists and “communications specialists” to extinguish the fires ignited constantly by economic exploitation and social exclusion, the whole of capitalist society would soon be engulfed in flames. .”

  11. Phillip ure 11
    16 December 2020 at 12:52 pm

    does anyone else remember grant robertson assuring us we were near the head of the queue for a vaccine..?

    I wonder how all that's going..

    • mpledger 11.1
      16 December 2020 at 2:41 pm

      There is an upside to be getting it later.

      And we are not the most at risk so I'd rather some in the USA/India/Brazil got it before me.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 11.2
      16 December 2020 at 2:58 pm

      does anyone else remember grant robertson assuring us we were near the head of the queue for a vaccine..?

      No, don't remember that – can you remember roughly when Robertson gave that assurance, or what the occasion/medium was? Could it have been a different government minister?

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123501010/covid19-kiwis-will-have-to-wait-even-once-vaccine-is-approved-overseas

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ministers-still-unsure-overseas-tourists-let-into-nz-countries-begin-covid-vaccine-roll

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/covid-19/nz-gets-in-line-for-covid-19-vaccine

      • Phillip ure 11.2.1
        16 December 2020 at 3:08 pm

        it was robertson…back when the first talk about vaccines was happening..

        and responding to the usual cries of ‘what about us?’..

        and multi-media…and repeated/more than once…

        • Drowsy M. Kram 11.2.1.1
          16 December 2020 at 5:02 pm

          Have you got a link Phillip? Did a Google search and couldn't find any evidence of "grant robertson assuring us we were near the head of the queue for a vaccine".

          Or maybe you could point me in the right direction? Bit of a vaccine mystery wink

          Ginny Andersen: How will domestic capability and manufacturing contribute to New Zealand accessing a vaccine?

          Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: New Zealand’s science and vaccine manufacturing sectors have an incredibly important role to play in ensuring New Zealanders get early access to a vaccine. Locally, the Vaccine Alliance Aotearoa New Zealand will receive $10 million to lead COVID-19 vaccine research through a vaccine development and evaluation platform. This will see the brightest minds from the Malaghan Institute of Medical Research, the University of Otago, and Victoria University of Wellington work together to support global efforts to develop vaccines that are safe and fit for purpose. BioCell will receive $3 million to upgrade its existing facilities so it’s in a position to scale up and support local and global vaccine manufacturing. Depending on the chosen vaccine, this could see up to 100 million vaccines manufactured annually right here in New Zealand—an important contribution to the global effort. New Zealand is well placed through the efforts of our researchers and Medsafe to leverage our expertise and to ensure that everybody can access a safe and effective vaccine as soon as possible.

          Ginny Andersen: How will New Zealand’s relative success in dealing with the coronavirus mean we are at the back of the queue for the vaccine?

          Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: No. Our relative success to date in keeping COVID-19 contained in New Zealand does not count against us when we aim to secure a vaccine to keep our population protected from COVID-19. Our vaccine strategy has been developed with this in mind, and this latest boost in funding is key to being part of and contributing to global efforts. This is a novel approach to securing vaccine access, but new and innovative approaches are required to ensure that New Zealand does not get left behind. We know that vaccine nationalism is the inhibitor to progress in our search for a vaccine, so our multilateral approaches with leading international organisations and in partnership with our Australian neighbours mean we are well placed to secure supply as one become available.
          https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansD_20200901_20200901

          • Phillip ure 11.2.1.1.1
            16 December 2020 at 6:35 pm

            see what Adrian said below..

            and just quietly..

            I write under my own name..

            ..and I don’t fucken just make shit up ..

            ..take that as a given..

            [Hi Phil,

            Of course, you’re not making up shit and nobody was implying such thing. However, people’s memories are notoriously unreliable. In addition, many things are open to interpretation. Sometimes, people accidentally leave out important context, which can have a dramatic and profound impact on meaning and purpose. For these reasons, mainly, it is common courtesy and thus generally a good idea to include links, especially when specifically asked.

            The last time you provided a link was 14 October, last year (!) as far as I can tell, i.e. 442 comments ago. Surely, by now you have mastered your new phone to enrich your comments with links.

            Last time I moderated you (https://thestandard.org.nz/national-announces-terms-of-reference-for-its-election-campaign-review/#comment-1767959) it was also for not providing a link when specifically asked.

            I’m going to have to up the stringency index and raise you to the Alert Level 2. I’m afraid your assurances and strong languages are no substitute for actual links, but I’m sure you will understand – Incognito]

            • Drowsy M. Kram 11.2.1.1.1.1
              16 December 2020 at 10:15 pm

              does anyone else remember grant robertson assuring us we were near the head of the queue for a vaccine..?

              Apologies Phillip – by asking for evidence of your recollection I wasn’t implying that you had a tendency to "fucken just make shit up". My reply to your question about what others remembered was in good faith – I didn't remember Robertson giving that assurance, and couldn’t find the evidence.

              Obviously best for all concerned if I just accept your and Adrian's memories as evidence – no doubt you would be similarly unquestioning.

              Who knows, maybe tomorrow I'll have a clear memory of Robertson giving that assurance too – stranger things have happened smiley

            • Incognito 11.2.1.1.1.2
              16 December 2020 at 11:26 pm

              See my Moderation note @ 6:35 PM.

    • weka 11.3
      16 December 2020 at 3:33 pm

      Why should NZ be at the head of the queue given we no longer have community spread or people dying/disabled from covid?

      • Adrian 11.3.1
        16 December 2020 at 3:56 pm

        Robertson said something along the lines of spending $37million? got us in the queue for a number of vaccines when they became available.

        Another thing that pisses me off is the number of numb nuts who espouse that we should relax all covid rules now when it was always stated by the Government that the lockdowns were to secure the hospital and medical resources until it was safe and a vaccine was freely available. Which by the way is still a long way off.;

        • mpledger 11.3.1.1
          16 December 2020 at 5:19 pm

          I agree. The number of new daily cases is still on the rise. And thought I've said this often – now is the most likely time for a random human to catch covid-19.

          I've only said it often because the number of new cases keeps going up.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 11.3.1.2
          16 December 2020 at 5:27 pm

          Documents released by Treasury on Friday show that it is forecasting that the Ministry of Health will need $2.8 million in next year’s Budget for what it calls a “National Immunisation Solution”.

          It is then forecasting that spending to double to $5.6 million in the 2022 Budget for 2022/23 and is forecasting the same amount of spending again in the 2023/24 year.

          The projections would seem to suggest that funding has been set aside for six months of the 2021/22 year and then from July 2022 to ramp up to a full vaccination programme.

          A spokesperson for Finance Minister Grant Robertson told POLITIK last night that if a vaccine were to be available earlier, then funding would be available.

          https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/08/31/ardern-points-finger-over-communications-failure/

          Remember this? Point about questioning motives is apposite, don't you think?

          Posted September 13
          NZ Businesses Will Not Thrive Until COVID Elimination Policy Ends

          A Vaccine Fix Is a Fantasy…

          Because the truth is, NZ is now using dynamite to blow up the ship in order to kill a flea that’s really only an ant. We’re going to sink if we don’t stop. NZ’s current refusal to change course with updated information doesn’t make sense. No wonder people are starting to question both narratives and motives.

  13. ianmac 13
    16 December 2020 at 3:02 pm

    Watched the Trevor Mallard interview with the Select Committee. His version seemed reasonable and no matter how the Nats picked at him, he seemed confident. As for Bishop trying to be clever, he really is a self-serving prick. No substance to his questions and imagine him being highly ranked in his cabinet!!!

    Replayhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/speaker-trevor-mallard-faces-mps-questions-over-330k-payout/M2QOYCXWN22SGDXYL4JYJURHLY/

    • Phillip ure 13.1
      16 December 2020 at 3:14 pm

      was he questioned about how dodgy it seems that after doing what he did..he got his deputy to change the law..to exempt him from any financial penalties..

      and these penalties to be shouldered by the taxpayers..?

      was he asked about that..?

      • Anne 13.1.1
        16 December 2020 at 3:24 pm

        …was he questioned about how dodgy it seems that after doing what he did..he got his deputy to change the law..to exempt him from any financial penalties.

        Except that he didn't which you would know if you had listened to the select committee.

        • Phillip ure 13.1.1.1
          16 December 2020 at 3:33 pm

          just for the record anne..

          how was that timeline/those circumstances explained..?

          • Adrian 13.1.1.1.1
            16 December 2020 at 3:58 pm

            Pay attention, it was Tolley who changed the law as the Speaker was not covered by the system like all other MPs.

            • Phillip ure 13.1.1.1.1.1
              16 December 2020 at 4:23 pm

              yes…that is the point I am making…

              • McFlock …
                16 December 2020 at 10:46 pm

                The point you seem to be making is that Mallard gave Tolley instructions to make that decision in a certain way.

                Whereas what seems to have happened is that he avoided an obvious conflict of interest by delegating a decision that directly affected him to the deputy speaker.

    • Jimmy 13.2
      16 December 2020 at 3:42 pm

      I must have been watching a different interview then. I don't think Mallard sounded very confident or convincing at all. It sounds likely this is going to cost the tax payer a lot more than $333k.

      • Westykev 13.2.1
        16 December 2020 at 4:21 pm

        Agree, it may get worse considering he said that

        "he interpreted misconduct as rape which it did not amount to rape"

        A real claytons apology if ever I heard one, He basically still claims the mans actions as miss-conduct even when Parliamentary services found no evidence to support the accusations.

        Ah well it's okay since he plays for the Red team, I can only imagine the outrage here if he was on the Blue team.

      • ianmac 13.2.2
        16 December 2020 at 4:45 pm

        this is going to cost the tax payer a lot more than $333k.

        The accused has a seperate case against the Parl Services but that is about the way they suspended him. Nothing to do with Mallard at all.

        When Mallard made his fateful remarks he was going on the just released Review of the unsafe Parl Environment. That was what he commented on and didn't know anything about the particular accused. At that time.

    • SPC 13.3
      17 December 2020 at 8:30 am

      Knew he was wrong within 24 hours and makes no effort to retract – an effective Bishop skewering of the Mallard sausage before going on the babrie.

      Now every National MP asked by the Speaker of the House to withdraw and apologise in the next three years can say – may I have 24 hours to think about that?

  14. Ad 14
    16 December 2020 at 5:37 pm

    It's mighty impressive to see Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison complain about China banning the importation of their coal. Morrison has led a government that has repeatedly scorned attempts to mitigate climate change and in particular supporting a massive new coal mine in Queensland, and killing off any carbon trading effort,

    Morrison is right to ask "Which one of Australia's sovereign national interests .. the government should have traded away" to appease China.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/15/scott-morrison-lashes-china-over-reported-ban-on-australian-coal-imports

    Xi sure knows how to hit Australia where it hurts.

    I suspect that their next target will be iron ore.

    The best we can do right now is make small supportive noises.

    • bwaghorn 14.1
      16 December 2020 at 6:40 pm

      Which side are we making small supportive noises to??

      • Ad 14.1.1
        16 December 2020 at 8:52 pm

        Both. Minister Mahuta is proposing to step in and be a peace-broker between Australia and China.

        • Maurice 14.1.1.1
          17 December 2020 at 5:13 am

          Rock and a hard place?

          a list showcasing 15 of New Zealand’s top trade partners, countries that imported the most shipments by dollar value from New Zealand during 2019. Also shown is each trade partner’s percentage of total New Zealand exports.

          1. China: US$11 billion (28.8% of New Zealand’s total exports)
          2. Australia: $5.2 billion (13.6%)
          3. United States: $3.6 billion (9.4%)
          4. Japan: $2.3 billion (6%)
          5. South Korea: $1.1 billion (2.9%)
          6. United Kingdom: $953.1 million (2.5%)
          7. Hong Kong: $810.3 million (2.1%)
          8. Taiwan: $770.2 million (2%)
          9. Malaysia: $695.7 million (1.8%)
          10. Indonesia: $685.8 million (1.8%)
          11. Singapore: $677.8 million (1.8%)
          12. Thailand: $642 million (1.7%)
          13. Philippines: $564.6 million (1.5%)
          14. Germany: $543.8 million (1.4%)
          15. Vietnam: $523.4 million (1.4%)

          http://www.worldstopexports.com/new-zealands-top-trade-partners/

          • Ad 14.1.1.1.1
            17 December 2020 at 7:53 am

            The APEC conference will be hosted by Ardern and Mahuta next year.

            While it will be virtual, it is still a big an opportunity we could get to enable China and Australia to talk properly.

    • SPC 14.2
      17 December 2020 at 8:27 am

      They'll keep importing iron ore. And they'll tell Biden reducing the importation of coal is part of their GW mitigation effort.

  15. mosa 15
    16 December 2020 at 6:23 pm

    Climate change , poverty and neo liberal fix it solutions to the housing crisis and other serious problems will not work.

    If Adern and the rest of the cabinet had a conscience or a thread of decency they would resign.

    But they won't of course as part of the privileged class with the super and other perks they are insulated from the extreme causes of deprivation.