Open mike 18/09/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 18th, 2024 - 66 comments
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66 comments on “Open mike 18/09/2024 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    18 September 2024 at 7:19 am

    UN Worries On 'Continuous Loss of Lives' in Gaza

    Dawn News

    [AI generated transcript lightly edited to aid comprehension]

    @2:16 minutes:

    ……Ocha warns that Aid workers in Gaza continue to face daily threats to their safety and ongoing obstruction to their efforts to reach Palestinians in need of life-saving assistance.

    Yesterday's uh incident involving a UN convoy stopped by Israeli forces, is the latest example of the unacceptable dangers and impediment that humanitarian personnel in Gaza are experiencing.

    The Convoy was carrying 12 staff members on their way to support the polio vaccination campaign in Northern Gaza, its movements were fully coordinated with Israeli forces and all details provided ahead of time.

    When the team was stopped at the AL Rashid checkpoint, they were informed that Israeli forces wanted to hold two UN staff members in the convoy for questioning.

    The situation escalated very quickly with soldiers pointing their weapons directly towards our Personnel in the Convoy.

    The UN Vehicles were encircled by Israeli forces and shots were fired.

    The convoy was then approached by IDF tanks and a bulldozer, which proceeded to ram the UN vehicles from the front and from the back, uh, compacting the Convoy with the UN staff inside. One bulldozzer dropped debris on the first vehicle, while Israeli soldiers threatened staff making it impossible for them to safely exit the vehicles.

    The Convoy remained at gunpoint as senior un officials engaged with Israeli authorities in an effort to deescalate the situation.

    The two staff members were interrogated by Israeli forces and then released back to us, uh, after 7 and a half hours at the checkpoint.

    The Convoy returned to base after being unable to complete its humanitarian Mission.

    The sentence, "The Convoy returned to base after being unable to complete its humanitarian Mission" is the important one.

    This is a common occurance for humanitarian aid missions seeking to bring relief and aid to civilians in Gaza.

    The small amount of aid being let through the Israeli controlled crossings into the territory amounts to little more than a PR exercise if the UN is being prevented from distributing it.

    It is significant that the warrants sought by the ICC Prosecutor, Karim Khan, for the arrest of Yoav Gallant, Israel's Defence Minister and Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's Prime Minister, cite using starvation as a weapon of war.

    Despite Israeli forces continuing to block and sabotage humanitarian aid missions, the ICC decision on whether to grant Khan's arrest warrants against Gallant and Netanyahu have been delayed

    Israel backer, the US has threatened sanctions against the ICC if they proceed with arrest warrants against Gallant and Netanyahu.

    US House passes ICC sanctions bill over Netanyahu arrest warrant request

    Vote is Congress’s first legislative rebuke of war-crimes court since ICC prosecutor’s decision to seek arrests of leaders of Israel and Hamas

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/04/us-house-icc-sanctions-netanyahu-

  2. bwaghorn 2
    18 September 2024 at 7:36 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/528262/added-insulation-costs-small-fraction-of-figure-given-by-minister-research

    So why arnt u seeing banner headlines with ,MINISTER CAUGHT LYING, and EMBARRASSING BACKDOWN FROM PENK???

  4. Tiger Mountain 4
    18 September 2024 at 8:07 am

    Are there no depths to which the Israeli butchers will not go? Exploding pagers…3000 injured plus deaths in Lebanon. Where the tampering and explosive implants were done on a bulk Motorola shipment will be very interesting.

    https://www.aljazeera.com

    • Ngungukai 4.1
      18 September 2024 at 8:12 am

      Don't Israel want to wipe Hamas and the Palestinian's out all together, meanwhile Rome burns ???

    • Ngungukai 4.2
      18 September 2024 at 8:13 am

      Lovely people ???

    • tsmithfield 4.3
      18 September 2024 at 8:51 am

      Are there no depths to which the Israeli butchers will not go?

      You are right on that I guess. Because they view their situational threats as existential, history has shown they don't muck around.

      However it is viewed, there is no doubt that this was an ingenious bit of sabotage, however they managed to do it.

      • tsmithfield 4.3.1
        18 September 2024 at 9:02 am

        Apparently Hezbollah switched to using pagers because group leader advised that cellphones could be tracked by the Israelis.

        This situation reminds me of the Israeli spy Eli Cohen who inflitrated the Syrian military and rose to be influential in Syrian government circles.

        I remember an account of him visiting the Syrian troops stationed on the Golan heights. Apparently he advised that the soldiers should not be having to suffer in the sun, so recommended that trees be planted to give them shelter.

        Of course, in the seven day war, the Israelis knew to shell anywhere on the heights that had trees.

        I do wonder if Hezbollah was infiltrated in a similar way, and the advice to start using pagers was all part of a cunning plot.

      • Cricklewood 4.3.2
        18 September 2024 at 9:04 am

        Very clever, but basically theyve set out to blow hands off people.

        • tsmithfield 4.3.2.1
          18 September 2024 at 9:11 am

          Looking at it as a the outcome of a calculated action, injuring them in ways that prevent them from future combat is probably more effective than killing them.

          My dad, who had seen military service, once told me that it is actually better to injure enemy soldiers rather than kill them because this ties up more of the enemy resources in terms of medical support and recovery.

          • Cricklewood 4.3.2.1.1
            18 September 2024 at 9:29 am

            Without doubt, its a brutally effective attack that will tie up surgeons and hospital space for a very long time not to mention aftercare. It takes a lot of operatives out of circulation for a long time if not permanantly.

            • tsmithfield 4.3.2.1.1.1
              18 September 2024 at 9:34 am

              Also, there will be severe disruption in communications within Hezbollah. If they have switched on mass to pagers, then anyone who still has a pager will be ditching it.

          • joe90 4.3.2.1.2
            18 September 2024 at 9:32 am

            this ties up more of the enemy resources

            Unless you're unfortunate enough to be a wounded Russian soldier.

            https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-soldiers-killing-wounded-comrade-190154691.html

          • lprent 4.3.2.1.3
            18 September 2024 at 10:50 am

            My question would be about targeting and technique.

            Pagers are usually standard item commodities. It is unlikely that Hezbollah were on their own network or that they were the only people in Lebanon with that model of pager.

            So how many civilians had those pagers have their battery controller fiddled with and explode? Because each non Hezbollah attacked with this technique constitutes a war crime.

            Of course I suspect that the Israeli response would probably be that anyone in Lebabon is Hezbollah. And therefore a legitimate target. This does appear to be the process that they following Gaza and the West Bank.

            But of course they are hypocrites. Because if that was the rule of how conflicts operate, then the Israeli casualties and hostages on October 7th are therefore not victims under the same logic.

            Israeli government are clearly political idiots. They appear to be on course to keep raising violence towards their citizens because they appear to be completely incapable of ever dealing with their neighbours with anything apart from stupid self-perpetuating violence.

            Reminds me of reading up the history of the Judean kingdoms. Fractious internally, Fractious to their neighbours. Continually overrun by empires because they could never work together or with their neighbours.

            As a culture, it looks like they have never learnt anything useful over the last 3000 years except how to be incapable of building a peaceful society that is also peaceful with their neighbours. Probability of Israel surviving keeps diminishing through their own efforts like this one.

            • tsmithfield 4.3.2.1.3.1
              18 September 2024 at 11:47 am

              I tend to agree with you. I think from a rat-cunning perspective, this was a brilliant operation. Undoubtably it has severely disrupted Hezbollah for the short term anyway.

              But, from a longer term perspective this sort of action (from both sides) only perpetuates the conflict. Sadly, if humanity is still around in another 1000 years, I think this conflict will still be an issue of world concern.

            • mpledger 4.3.2.1.3.2
              18 September 2024 at 11:55 am

              The problem is that their neighbours (and those that fund them) don't want peace either. And they are just as happy to sacrifice civilians if it furthers their cause.

              • lprent …
                18 September 2024 at 12:39 pm

                You mean their immediate neighbours like Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. None of whom have taken significiant military action against Israel for over half a century?

                The last military actions with their neighbours were Israel invading Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 to deal with Palestinian refugee attacks on Israel. And periodic attacks by Israel against their other neighbouring states against mainly Palestinian targets.

                You don't consider that the Palestinians have a right to be pissed off?

                The immediate 'neighbours' in Gaza and the West Bank and for that matter most of Hezbollah and other groups in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan are Palestinians whose families were forcibly expelled from their homes in an unlawful ethnic cleansing program by the Israeli government in 1948 onwards.

                Since then there has been a campaign by Israel to seize their land and property under the most dubious legal pretences.

                Gaza and the West Bank have been occupied territories of Israel since 1967 that have been subjected to either direct martial law or military blockades for over 50 years by Israel. They are subjected to punitive laws, random attacks and massive theft of land and property by Israel and Israeli citizens.

                As far as I can tell Israel hasn't made a single good faith attempt to deal with the the local populations that they displaced, stole from, and actively murdered since 1948 and before.

                Instead the Israel government appear to treat them as being the persecutors of Jews from the time of the Romans and before.

                It probably helps that the Palestinians have been essentially defenceless since 1948 because as we're all aware it is easier to be a bully when the victims you injure and steal from are unable to hit back.

                What seems to be infuriating Israelis at present is that while the other Arab nations have shifted over the last 50 years to accepting Israel. But the actual victims of Israel in Palestinian refugees and their families have not, mostly because of lack of any restitution by Israel and the way that Palestinians under occupation are treated. Also that overall they are getting stronger and better armed to resist.

                That appears to be have caused problems for Israel because Israel as a state has failed to keep their land-thieving citizens in check. That appears to have been the primary impediment to peace. Israel have had numerous opportunities to negotiate a peaceful co-existence and appear to have deliberately prevented each one from succeeding.

                I have zero sympathy for Israel. They are the problem perpetuating a conflict. They are definitely not the victims. They look more like they are the guards of a pending death camp because of racist bigotry.

                What Israel needs to do is to kick all settlements out of the West Bank as a sign of good faith and expel all Israeli citizens apart from military from there as well as a sign of good faith. Then start to negotiate a viable state fro Palestinians. That would include territorial concessions in the Negev to allow Gaza and the West Bank a land corridor.

                I don't think that a unitary state of Israel and Palestine is at all feasible because of the obvious biases in Israel law and governmental operations against ethnic Arabs.

                • SPC …
                  18 September 2024 at 2:48 pm

                  Paragraphs

                  1.Hezbollah is better armed than the Lebanese Army and many nation states and makes regular attacks on Israel.

                  2.Israel attacked Hezbollah in Lebanon this century. The "refugees" attacked in Lebanon were the PLO kicked out of Jordan for trying to take over the place.

                  4.Hezbellah are Lebanese Shia Moslems. Most of the West Bank (and many of Gaza) residents are not 1948 refugees, they are in the areas they were in awarded for a Palestinian state.

                  5.Not since 1948, but since 1977 when Likud first came to power in Israel.

                  7.The Labour Party enacted the Oslo Accord process (1993)allowing the PLO to base in the West Bank and Gaza as the Palestinian Authority (1996). After the failed negotiations of 2000 and the subsequent intifada the Kadima era government enacted disengagement (reducing tension until negotiations resumed) – withdrawal from Gaza and some areas of the West Bank.

                  9.Egypt and Jordan occupied the WB and Gaza 1948-1967 and made no effort to establish a Palestinian state – because the Arab League goal was defeat of the Israeli state.

                  10.The Arab states have chosen to recognise because Iran now leads the hostility to Israel and seeks to eliminate the state by arming the Sunni Palestinian Hamas and Shia Moslem Lebanese Hezbollah (soon Shia militias of Iraq will base in Syria to do the same) to war on Israel. The Sunni Arab states do not trust Iran – and see it as using Israel to become a regional hegemon.

                  11.The situation is a consequence of BN's period in office – he has always opposed a two state peace.

                  12.Sure the rail/road corridor WB to Gaza is a peace talks issue. The purpose of the WB settlements – to reduce Palestinians into cantons/bantustans in an IDF controlled WB is the real problem, not Jews living in the territory of a future Palestinian state (as two million Arabs do in Israel).

                  13.A unitary state is too difficult – but a peace that moves the wider area towards that is optimum.

                  One approach.

                  aThe UN awards all 1948 refugees a UN Palestinian passport – they can use to live in the WB and Gaza or elsewhere in the ME or Europe/ Americas.

                  bIsrael allows all UN Palestinian passport holders the right to work in Israel (if they have jobs). A certain number can apply each year for residence.

                  cThe numbers might well become a million (equal to Jewish settlers with Israeli passports in the land awarded for a Palestinian state.

                  dEach 1948 Palestinian refugee family qualifies for a compensation payment for lost property.The land used in the WB for Jewish settlements is valued and a transfer to the PA is made – for claims from those who lost land. and to assist those 1948 refugees into WB and Gaza housing.

                  The justice path is a necessary pre-curser to build trust in the negotiations over the two state outcome.

                  • lprent …
                    18 September 2024 at 3:36 pm

                    I won’t bother going through all of your bullshit. Suffice it to say that most of it looks like the usual crap from the self-serving Zionist propaganda.

                    5.Not since 1948, but since 1977 when Likud first came to power in Israel.

                    1948 was most of the majority of the expulsion. It was a deliberate act of ethnic cleansing. As far as I can tell from records released by various governments including some from the nascent IDF, this is an accurate statement.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight

                    During the 1948 Palestine war in which the State of Israel was established, around 700,000[fn 1] Palestinian Arabs, or 85% of the total population of the territory Israel captured, were expelled or fled from their homes.[1] The causes of this mass displacement have been a matter of dispute, though today most scholars consider that the majority of Palestinians were directly expelled or else fled due to fear.

                    Causes of the exodus include direct expulsions by Israeli forces, destruction of Arab villages, psychological warfare including terrorism, dozens of massacres which caused many to flee out of fear, such as the widely publicized Deir Yassin massacre,[2] crop burning,[3][4] typhoid epidemics in some areas caused by Israeli well-poisoning,[5] and the collapse of Palestinian leadership including the demoralizing impact of wealthier classes fleeing.[6] Many historians consider that the events of 1948 were an instance of ethnic cleansing.

                    What you are parroting is the explanation of the Israeli ‘Old Historians’ who were appear to have been state employed propagandists or from Zionists advocating for the transfer ideology.

                    New Historians
                    In the 1980s Israel and United Kingdom opened up part of their archives for investigation by historians. This favored a more critical and factual analysis of the 1948 events and led to the emergence of the Israeli New Historians who published more detailed and comprehensive descriptions of the Palestinian exodus. Perhaps most influential of the early works of the New Historians was Benny Morris’ The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, published in 1988.[41] In an essay in 1988 Morris wrote that “Jewish atrocities [were] far more widespread than the Old Historians have indicated (there were massacres of Arabs at Dawayima, Eilabun, Jish, Safsaf, Hule, Saliha, and Sasa besides Deir Yassin and Lydda)”.[42]

                    According to Shay Hazkani, 2013: “In the past two decades, following the powerful reverberations (concerning the cause of the Nakba) triggered by the publication of books written by those dubbed the “New Historians,” the Israeli archives revoked access to much of the explosive material. Archived Israeli documents that reported the expulsion of Palestinians, massacres or rapes perpetrated by Israeli soldiers, along with other events considered embarrassing by the establishment, were reclassified as “top secret.””[43]

                    Likud’s actions since 1977, are just a continuation using the IDF and settlers inside the West Bank and Gaza of the same barbaric Zionist ideology of terrorism.

                    4.Hezbellah are Lebanese Shia Moslems. Most of the West Bank (and many of Gaza) residents are not 1948 refugees, they are in the areas they were in awarded for a Palestinian state.

                    You mean that they are in small fraction of the land that was awarded for a Palestinian state in 1948. This is the partition map adopted in November 1947. I am sure that you are aware of the current borders.

                    • SPC …
                      18 September 2024 at 3:45 pm

                      What about not since 1948, did you not comprehend.

                      Strawmanism.

                      It was in response to your 5th paragraph

                      Since then there has been a campaign by Israel to seize their land and property under the most dubious legal pretences.

                      And thus your only point there was

                      Likud’s actions since 1977, are just a continuation using the IDF and settlers inside the West Bank and Gaza of the same barbaric Zionist ideology of terrorism.

                      Which I had noted.

                      4.Hezbellah are Lebanese Shia Moslems.

                      Most of the West Bank (and many of Gaza) residents are not 1948 refugees, they are in the areas they were in awarded for a Palestinian state.

                      You mean that they are in small fraction of the land that was awarded for a Palestinian state in 1948. This is the partition map adopted in November 1947

                      Still a majority of the WB residents are not 1948 refugees.

                      Note there are 2 million Arabs in Israel, many of those in the 1947 Palestinian award territory remained and became Israeli citizens.

                • Bearded Git …
                  18 September 2024 at 2:49 pm

                  Wot you said lprent….great post.

                  It is pissing me off the people that are saying the pager attack is clever where in fact it is pure barbarism (and probably illegal).

                  One wonders if Israel understands or cares about the hatred towards them that they are engendering all around the world.

                  • tsmithfield …
                    18 September 2024 at 3:07 pm

                    It is pissing me off the people that are saying the pager attack is clever where in fact it is pure barbarism

                    Those concepts are not mutually exclusive.

                    It indeed was "clever" from the perspective that it appears the devices were rigged months ago and that Hezbollah were convinced to exchange their cellphones for pagers due to fears about the Israelis tracking their cell phones.

                    If Israelis planted someone for the purpose of convincing Hezbollah to move to pagers, then it was an elaborate and brilliant operation.

                    That doesn't mean it wasn't barbaric though. If it only was attacking combatants then the sort of injuries caused were probably less than what land mines or cluster munitions cause.

                    War by its very nature is nasty. The fact that civilians were also targeted deliberately or otherwise takes it to the level of a war crime IMO.

                    • adam …
                      18 September 2024 at 7:16 pm

                      It's a war crime pure and simple.

                      Why our government has not condemned the killing and maiming of civilians, including those in the medical profession, is beyond me.

                      Terrorism is terrorism, state sponsored or otherwise.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 September 2024 at 7:32 pm

                      More clever, elaborate and brilliant than flying paragliders into Israel, undetected?

                  • Obtrectator …
                    18 September 2024 at 11:34 pm

                    TVNZ 6 o'clock news today called it "audacious". One can only assume they don't know the true meaning of the word.

            • Ngungukai 4.3.2.1.3.3
              18 September 2024 at 12:37 pm

              Certainly going to be a few pissed off people in amongst, Hamas, Hezbollah and the people's/citizens of Palestine. The Israeli's are certainly amping up the hatred.

            • SPC 4.3.2.1.3.4
              18 September 2024 at 3:35 pm

              Continually overrun by empires because they could never work together or with their neighbours.

              Historically inaccurate in the sense that in the age of empires this happened to all nations. Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece then Rome. All nations in their regions were over-run by them, not just one.

              Rome killed a third of the Gauls, enslaved a third and collected tribute tax from the other third. Par for the course and it says nothing about Gaul but that it was an imperial target.

              Reminds me of reading up the history of the Judean kingdoms. Fractious internally, Fractious to their neighbours. As a culture, it looks like they have never learnt anything useful over the last 3000 years except how to be incapable of building a peaceful society that is also peaceful with their neighbours.

              Do you know much about European history over the past 2000 years?

              Balkans 1990's, Ukraine 2020's.

              Fraser, the CO of WW1, then WW2 PM went off to the UN founding in 1945 with hopes to end war via collective security. A work in progress obviously.

              • lprent …
                18 September 2024 at 4:38 pm

                Of course I know a lot about European (and Byzantine) history. I’m weaker on americas, asian and steppe history. History and pre-history has been my hobby interest long before I got developed a interest in computers or actual politics.

                Clearly you misread my point. I was talking about the some of the reasons why those small states in the Palestine proved to be so easy to be over run by successive empires.

                The judean and proto-judean states were notable in history because of how much of a problem that they were for the empires and that they never seem to have made common cause with their neighbouring political entities, including other judean kingdoms to prevent being overrun. From what history there is, that was a major cause about why states and city states in that area were commonly successively overrun by empires. There is nothing too similar in Europe where the continual migrations weren’t anything like the middle eastern empires.

                Ummm… reasonable summary on wikipedia starting around the 1550 BCE to the fall of Babylon by Cyrus in 620BCE. Cyrus encouraged migration of captive jews back to the Palestine. However many did not return and probably formed the bulk of the diaspora across the middle east.

                You see the exactly same fractious political traits continuing through to the Roman controlled period (pre and post annexation) in particular with the divisions between factions causing revolts. The Bar Kokhba revolt of 132–136CE was the defining moment to depopulate the much of Roman province of Judea.

                But the later Roman/Byzantine period, conversions to Christianity and finally the the conversions to Islam after 638CE and the conquest of the Sham did the rest of the change of the remaining jewish families into what are now palestinians.

                However all the way from the destruction of second temple in 70AD until the British formed got the Palestinian mandate after WW1, there has been a clear policy by the empires in control of tat region to not allow local autonomy that was characteristic in other areas of the various empires who had control of the Palestine.

          • Cricklewood 4.3.2.2.1
            18 September 2024 at 10:41 am

            Think the main aim will have been hands and faces, send the message to trigger with enough delay that the targets take out the pager to read it, if near sighted hold it close to the face as well.

    • Jenny 4.4
      18 September 2024 at 6:24 pm

      '

      How is this not 'Terrorism'?

      Who was responsible for the Lebanon attacks today? An Andrew Marr analysis | LBC

      Almost 3,000 people in Lebanon are thought to have been seriously injured after the pagers used for communication exploded. Eight people, including a ten year old girl, have been killed in the incident…..

      https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/09/18/israel-planted-explosives-in-5-000-hezbollah-s-pagers-sources

      [AI generated transcript, lightly edited to aid comprehension]

      @1:16 minutes:

      Have the Israelis developed the capability to turn a lithium ion battery into a bomb? …

      @1:46 minuites:

      Batteries of some kind [are] on board every communications device, every laptop.

      If you think in your own life how many batteries there are, absolutely it is a terrifying idea. So this is a global issue really….

      • Jenny 4.4.1
        18 September 2024 at 9:21 pm

        Not Terrorism?

        It's a sensitive operation.

        The American and other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity given the sensitive nature of the operation.

        Independent cybersecurity experts who have studied footage of the attacks said it was clear that the strength and speed of the explosions were caused by a type of explosive material.

        “These pagers were likely modified in some way to cause these types of explosions — the size and strength of the explosion indicates it was not just the battery,” said Mikko Hypponen, a research specialist at the software company WithSecure and a cybercrime adviser to Europol.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-hezbollah-pagers-explosives.html

        "…the sensitive nature of the operation"?

        Sensitive?

        Sensitive operation or terrorism?

        What if Hezbollah had 'modified in some way' a shipment of pagers to Israel to kill the users?

        Would this be referred to as a "Sensitive Operation?"

        The whole Western mediasphere would be falling over themselves to print screaming banner headlines, in Bold type. "TERRORIST ATTACK"

        Seas of ink, real and virtual, would be spilt, in long editorials speculating on the identity of the individuals responsible for this 'terrorist attack'. An international manhunt, would be followed every step of the way by a breathless media

        Not this time 'cause y'know "sensitive operation".

  5. Ngungukai 5
    18 September 2024 at 9:32 am

    Surely this contravene's some International Law's however Israel and the USA apparently do not have to abide by those Laws.

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1
      18 September 2024 at 9:54 am

      The USA practices “American Exceptionalism” regarding international law and international judiciary bodies. This means they cherry pick which international obligations and organisations they will buy into and which they will violate and ignore.

      Dirty, filthy, Uncle Sam as per usual.

    • gsays 5.2
      18 September 2024 at 10:24 am

      That is what makes me look at the commentary on the American elections in disbelief.

      We are all supposed to think Trump is a bad man and yet Biden/Harris are enabling the genocide and these barbaric attacks to continue. With no bad press, here or overseas.

      • tWig 5.2.1
        18 September 2024 at 1:33 pm

        Of course the US meddles big time overseas, and always has. However, Trump is an incoherent demagogue, whereas the Democrat option at least run an effective administrative ship. There is no benefit to dismantling/derailing US power internationally without reining in that of other world Big Boys. Trump is moved by the wind from day to day, and it won't get any better as he edges into his eighties.

        • gsays 5.2.1.1
          18 September 2024 at 5:48 pm

          " whereas the Democrat option at least run an effective administrative ship."

          So long as they don't do anything Wall St doesn't approve of. So far enabling and actively contributing to genocide is in the banksters interests. Not that you would read that anywhere because Trump is doing his job well, that bad man.

      • SPC 5.2.2
        18 September 2024 at 1:55 pm

        IN fact …

        Trump recognised the Israeli annexation of the Golan Heights and moved the American embassy to Jerusalem and has offered no criticism of American policy on Gaza. Trump and the GOP is more pro Israel on Gaza and West Bank settlement expansion than the Biden White House.

      • joe90 5.2.3
        18 September 2024 at 2:46 pm

        The bad man whose Presidency revoked Obama era requirements to report drone deaths outside war zones and tripled the number of Afghan civilians killed by the US military?

        .

        President Donald Trump has revoked a policy set by his predecessor requiring US intelligence officials to publish the number of civilians killed in drone strikes outside of war zones.

        […]

        What was the rule?

        It required the head of the CIA to release annual summaries of US drone strikes and assess how many died as a result.

        Mr Trump's executive order does not overturn reporting requirements on civilian deaths set for the military by Congress.

        There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

        https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-afghanistan-airstrikes-increased-civilian-deaths-by-330-since-2016-2020-12

        • gsays 5.2.3.1
          18 September 2024 at 5:51 pm

          Be that as it may, doesn't alter the point I'm making, lovely Joe Biden and his offsider Harris are still enabling genocide.

          But the various think tanks, liberal media and too much commentary here on TS are rather mute on that.

  6. Sanctuary 6
    18 September 2024 at 11:00 am

    What was the point? What was the goal of this brazenly indiscriminate and lawless act from Israel? Does it lower the risk of war? Does it de-escalate tensions with Iran? Israel regards itself as above the law. This is an act of state terrorism. It is an act of war on a sovereign state (Lebanon) and a flagrant breach of the Geneva conventions, which forbid indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations. The only rationale for this action is one of unhinged violence from a militarised state ruled by maximalist genocidal racists whose self-excusing language is now frequently indistinguishable from that used by the Nazi genocidal project during WW2.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov

    The mind bending, crazy aspect of all this is if Hezbollah and/or Iran strike back against these blatant acts of war from a rogue state they'll be painted as the aggressors, Israel will be depicted in the Western MSM as victims, and framed from an Israeli view and depicted through an Israeli propaganda lens.

    QED – Stuff just now: https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350419904/hezbollahs-terrible-blunder-ended-audacious-pager-attack-killed-nine-injured

    "Hezbollah’s terrible blunder that ended with an audacious pager attack that killed nine, injured thousands"

    How would "America's terrible blunder that ended with an audacious 9/11 attack that killed three thousand, injured tens of thousands" run, do you think?

    Western political elites will unconditionally swing in behind Israel without apparently the faintest idea of the damage it does to their credibility, or that an increasing majority of their voters disagree with them. The fact is, support for Israel now only exists as a project in the political elites of key Western countries, a reality attested by the level of ruthless authoritarianism used to suppress dissent on unconditional support for Israel in their native populations.

    • AB 6.1
      18 September 2024 at 2:27 pm

      The point is probably escalation. To transform the conflict from a localised genocide into a regional conflict where it can plausibly be argued that Israel's continued existence is threatened.

      And perhaps also to shave a percentage point or two off the Democrats by making more liberal voters abandon them in disgust – so increasing Trump's chances.

      • Subliminal 6.1.1
        18 September 2024 at 3:37 pm

        Absolutely the point is escalation. It is the only way to keep the genocide project on track. The US and Israel have been all in on genocide for a while now. If the wheel stops spinning now they will be severely exposed for the barbarians that they are.

        And thanks Sanctuary for the extremely lucid, explosive condemnation above

      • SPC 6.1.2
        18 September 2024 at 3:52 pm

        Sure a transfer from using Hamas as rationale for WB policy – post Hamas, to using the Hezbollah-Iran axis.

        And BN knows that would work if Trump was POTUS and only might work under a Democrat.

    • SPC 6.2
      18 September 2024 at 4:01 pm

      It's WAT policy practice.

      Al Qaeda based in Afghanistan and regime change for hosting a "terrorist" group.

      The problem Hezbollah has, as an Iranian armed front, is that it is not (just) fighting for Shebaa Farms, but Iran's goal of eliminating the state of Israel.

      Thus can be accused of being a terrorist group, even if it is armed and trained otherwise (to be a fighting force).

      The reason the Lebanese government is not seen as accountable as per Afghanistan, is that its own army does not control the gun in the country.

      Until Iran moderates its agenda to a two state solution, the West can pose Iran as the agency behind a campaign to end the state of Israel.

  7. Ngungukai 7
    18 September 2024 at 12:33 pm

    NZ Herald "US Marine has been training Comanchero Gangsters", I can see why the NZ Police are starting to take a look at the gangs in a more serious light, unfortunately the NZ Police and successive Governments have let the gangs in NZ get too strong IMHO.

    • tWig 7.1
      18 September 2024 at 1:42 pm

      I think you must be dreaming if you believe the NZ Police have been blind to organised crime in NZ until now. It's not just gangs who import drugs, which leads to downstream social harm and violent deaths. It's an enticing return for business people, white business people, too, e.g. this man in Auckland, and for transnational cartels.

      And guess what: the Comancheros investigation began three years ago, under Labour.

    • AB 7.2
      18 September 2024 at 1:57 pm

      I guess Luxon (with his laser-like focus on 'delivery') will be looking to extradite this US Marine guy from the US and get him to face charges here – if the police think they have something that will stick. Or maybe not.

      • gsays 7.2.1
        18 September 2024 at 6:01 pm

        Mention of the police 'uncovering' military style training camps took me straight back to 2007 and the invasion of Tuhoe.

        That went well/sarc.

  8. tWig 8
    18 September 2024 at 1:47 pm

    JD Vance claims that it's media who are responsible for fact-checking politicians' stories, in defending his spread of cat-eating migrant stories in rallies.

    • SPC 8.1
      18 September 2024 at 1:51 pm

      He is admitting that no one should believe a thing the Trump campaign says – because they do not practice any self regulation, but exploit any story their supporters promote for them – reminds one of the Key Ede whale of a tale news creation team. That is GOP activists create lies (Trump was part of the birther movement during the Obama presidency) for dispersal into MSM via GOP politicians.

  9. SPC 9
    18 September 2024 at 1:48 pm

    The apparently surprising story of a mayor who had to sell a car.

    1. $195,000 paying off a home mortgage in Wellington is not that much

    Given the higher tax paid than on two $95,000 salaries of a couple.

    There is a reason most require two incomes and this salary is not much more than the average couple paying off a mortgage in the city.

    If her home purchase and mortgage is recent, there would have been an unexpected large increase in mortgage payments (making a purchase that seemed affordable more difficult).

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350419786/wellington-mayor-struggling-189000-year-how-salary-not-enough-live

  10. Vivie 10
    18 September 2024 at 6:13 pm

    On RNZ's 5 p.m. news Christopher Luxon blamed Labour's supposed financial mismanagement for the closure of the Penrose pulp and paper mill. The reporter did not question his comments, nor provide a response from Labour. This is predictable reporting – the government repeatedly blames Labour for NZ's current socioeconomic problems, without a challenge.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/news-bulletin

    Surely Government MPs should be challenged when making dishonest statements, rather than being given free rein to repeatedly spread disinformation. Throughout 2023 credit rating agencies supported Labour's economic management.

    "Standard and Poor’s is the latest independent credit rating agency to endorse the Government’s economic management in the face of a deteriorating global economy.

    S&P affirmed New Zealand’s long term local currency rating at AAA and foreign currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook. It follows Fitch affirming New Zealand’s AA+ rating with a stable outlook and Moody’s annual credit analysis affirming a stable outlook on New Zealand’s local currency and foreign currency ratings at Aaa".

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-gets-aaa-credit-rating-sp

    From an earlier RNZ article today, the reasons given for the mill closure were high power prices and an inability to compete with the company's new mill in Malaysia.

    "Oji Fibre Solutions Penrose mill is permanently closing, the E tū union says.

    Union spokesperson Joe Gallagher said the mill's last day would be 18 December and at least 72 workers at the mill had been affected.

    Oji Fibre Solutions said it was considering closing its Penrose mill, partly due to high power prices. Up to 75 workers would be affected……..

    Shift electrician Maurice Upton, who has been at the mill for 20 years, said staff were hoping it could be saved.

    He said the Penrose operation was one of the most efficient mills in the country but couldn't compete with a the new mill the company had built in Malaysia".

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/528291/auckland-pulp-and-paper-mill-closing-permanently-union-say

  11. Ngungukai 11
    18 September 2024 at 7:30 pm

    Baldrick has the NZ Media under his thumb, like Sir John Key.

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