Open mike 19/10/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 19th, 2023 - 113 comments
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113 comments on “Open mike 19/10/2023 ”

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  1. Mr Nobody 1
    19 October 2023 at 6:39 am

    It seems the Palestinian terrorist organizations no longer being happy murdering Israelis have turned to destroying their own hospitals and murdering the own.

    BBC News – Gaza hospital: What video, pictures and other evidence tell us about Al Ahli hospital blast

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061

    • bwaghorn 1.1
      19 October 2023 at 6:44 am

      Pays not to believe anything once war kicks off, .

    • SPC 1.2
      19 October 2023 at 8:33 am

      Whatever it was, it was not deliberate.

      1. It was not an Israeli air to ground missile target.
      2. Neither Hamas and Islamic Jihad deliberately fire rockets that fail to reach their target in Israel.

      It hit the car park area not the hospital itself. It did not leave much in the way of a blast crater. It was the number of civilians congregating there because the hospital was not a target that explains the number of victims.

      It could well be a rocket that misfired and the unused fuel caught fire.

      PS RNZ is still reporting that a hospital was bombed rather than a car park area beside it.

    • Bearded Git 1.3
      19 October 2023 at 8:50 am

      I'm doubt if the tin-pot rockets Hamas uses could have caused this. It is probably just Israel lying to deflect blame as usual. The whole Gaza siege is against international law.

      • SPC 1.3.1
        19 October 2023 at 9:07 am

        … little crater damage and the unused rocket fuel creating a fireball in the car park (parked cars also with petrol)

        The whole Gaza siege is against international law.

        The regime in Afghanistan was removed because they hosted the group behind 9/11 – Hamas organised the murder of hundreds of Israelis and rules in Gaza …

        • Barfly 1.3.1.1
          19 October 2023 at 4:26 pm

          No one was talking about Afghanistan

          The IDF and settlers have killed thousands of Palestinians

          Collective punishment is a war crime

          from google

          " International humanitarian law, including the fourth Geneva Convention and additional protocols, prohibits collective punishment in all circumstances. The imposition of collective punishment can be considered a war crime under customary international law"

          I think Hamas are a bunch of murdering lunatics but that doesn't mean they are the only bunch of murdering shits out there. The hands of the nation of Israel are also drenched in blood IMO.

          • SPC 1.3.1.1.1
            20 October 2023 at 1:27 am

            No one was talking about Afghanistan

            A nation has a right to war on a nation that wars on them and remove its government. If a government can be removed from power for hosting a terrorist group, more so a governing agency which runs the terrorist group – in this case its own armed militants.

            The IDF and settlers have killed thousands of Palestinians

            As many as Jews that killed by intifada etc or as many as by the PA’s own forces?

            Collective punishment is a war crime

            What is collective punishment in wartime?

            Russia attacking water and power production facilities of Ukraine? Or Israel doing it in Gaza?

            Gaza is a place where people live above a terrorist encampment (a collective of murderous incels in the basement who think Jews are Chads). They use the parents of children above as hostages to their regimes continuance – citing war crime whenever someone comes to make them accountable.

        • adam 1.3.1.2
          19 October 2023 at 6:54 pm

          The yanks never targeted hospitals, health care workers and journalists in their invasion of Afghanistan.

          This is a new type of low from IDF, oh wait it seems they have people they are copying.

          • SPC 1.3.1.2.1
            20 October 2023 at 1:05 am

            Your evidence of targeting is what, that sometimes that happens and you infer from that deliberation?

            The ones doing the copying – Putin's Russia, playing both roles (German and Soviet Russia) in Ukraine today (as per the fall of Warsaw).

            What can be said is that Israel and Russia have targeted water and power supply.

    • Tricledrown 1.4
      19 October 2023 at 10:56 am

      The Fog of War my dad was there 1045-48 the league of Nations but in reality the British Army trying to keep impossible promises it had made to both sides over the years since 1917 from the defeat of the Ottomans in Palestine. Its been a tit for tat revenge driven War breaking out full scale .The truth will come out. The fundamentalist Jews blew up the British military headquarters and blew up their own synagogs blaming Arabs so they could garner international support.Their are no winners in this ongoing conflict no one has a solution otherwise it would have been found by now.Netanyahu is using this conflict to hide his corruption and trying to form a dictatorship Trump of Israel funny that Trump backs Russias side and backs Hamas and Hezboolah . Trump is Putins puppet.This conflict is designed to distract the US support from the Ukraine.Brand new weapons supplied to Hamas made in Russia China and Rockets from Iran.This is an edge of empire war both sides pushing as far as they can without full-scale war or the nuke option.

    • Anne 1.5
      19 October 2023 at 11:01 am

      Rather than indulging in inflammatory language such as destroying their own hospitals and murdering the own, how about you stick to the far more likely cause:

      An Hamas missile misfired. I saw the BBC story last night and apparently Hamas are launching rockets from a cemetery not far from the hospital.

    • francesca 1.6
      19 October 2023 at 12:48 pm

      The Israelis had no qualms about hitting a hospital .They'd already targeted and damaged 2 floors on the Saturday .The very same hospital

      An Israeli missile was identified.

      Not surprising that Israel doesn't want to own up after the world wide condemnation

    • Barfly 2.1
      19 October 2023 at 7:25 am

      New Zealand – land of the long white cloud

      National Party – band of the wrong white crowd

      "same as it ever was"

      • Mike the Lefty 2.1.1
        19 October 2023 at 7:44 am

        When you think about this iconic Talking Heads song Once in a Lifetime its meaning could easily be applied to post election NZ.

        Same as it ever was.

        Same as it ever was

      • Tricledrown 2.1.2
        19 October 2023 at 11:09 am

        National have painted themselves into a corner Winston will have the handbrake on.look for a Shipley style coup National will white ant NZ first to try and overthrow Winston for a second time.Winston has been shafted Twice by National 3rd time coming up.National not being able to implement its tax cuts will go down like a cup of hot sick with its supporters.

    • Ad 2.2
      19 October 2023 at 8:26 am

      Also a whole lot of farmers.

      And from ACT I'm waiting to see if Hoggard gets Agriculture or Environment. Just to see how fast he rolls back animal welfare standards and introduces GE organisms.

      • Barfly 2.2.1
        19 October 2023 at 8:35 am

        Horrifying thought Seymour as Minister of the MSD

        /shudder

      • Sanctuary 2.2.2
        19 October 2023 at 8:46 am

        The revanchism of this government looks scary. It like National in opposition spent six years mainly cultivating their own version of the Dolchstoßlegende (stabbed in the back by the eternal Winston), and now they wish to restore the country to some sort of nostalgic ante-bellum vision of Keyland where cronyism and rentier capitalism rules supreme. Perhaps Luxon will unwitting prove Marx right – “History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce”.

        • Barfly 2.2.2.1
          19 October 2023 at 8:56 am

          That is a great quote yes

        • AB 2.2.2.2
          19 October 2023 at 9:28 am

          ante-bellum vision of Keyland

          Love that. But given how big a part Covid is playing in the revanchist desire to restore the proper order, should it be "ante-morbus" rather than "ante-bellum"? (I wouldn't know, two years of schoolboy Latin 50-odd years ago have a very short half-life.)

        • Rolling-on-Gravel 2.2.2.3
          19 October 2023 at 9:45 am

          I hope he's only a farce, not another tragedy like Roger Douglas.

      • Mike the Lefty 2.2.3
        19 October 2023 at 10:37 am

        They are already planning to resume live animal exports by the end of the year.

    • Heather Grimwood 2.3
      19 October 2023 at 9:34 am

      to bwaghorn at 2 : a frightening situation from my long-experienced viewpoint as a white woman hugely concerned for future of my great – grandchildren and their peers, male and female.

  3. Sanctuary 3
    19 October 2023 at 8:26 am

    Interesting to see old boiled ham head wearing an All Black jersey on the weekend. Got me thinking about how class has become a thing in our sport nowadays. Ever since McCaw decided to shit on all those working class AB supporters by publically hanging around with Key (and latterly Luxon) and endorsing National the whole All Black schtick has evolved towards being a tedious self help Ted talk to inspire the sparklingly clean SUV crowd who see the over-priced merchandise of All Blacks brand as part of their entitlement to affordable luxury. Rugby, the senators watching the circus from the better seats of the colosseum.

    Whereas working class NZers (at least in Auckland) now more or less all support the Warriors.

    It is a pity, but I guess the engalitarian dream dies not with a bang, but with a whimper.

    • Ad 3.1
      19 October 2023 at 8:32 am

      Ardern went to her fair share of All Blacks games but she wasn't as convincing as Helen Clark's support of the Warriors.

      Since sporting codes have long since replaced unions for organising our working and active middle classes, why the left doesn't even try for credibility within sport is perplexing. Labour sure didn't handle Louisa Wall well.

      Hopefully Cushla Tangaere-Manuel is the start of Labour giving sport its proper recognition.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.1
        19 October 2023 at 8:50 am

        I agree. If I had been Hipkins, I'd have worn Warriors gear at every opportunity south of Greenlane and been seen sharing a sausage roll with the Warriors Joker.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.2
        19 October 2023 at 9:43 am

        One thought – it is positively de rigueur amongst the fashionable chattering classes of the left to hate on the All Blacks and look down their noses at collision sports as rather beastly and uncivilised, and since that group comprises most of what passes as the left's intellectual oomph these days I think we know why the left has been slow to engage…

        • Bearded Git 3.1.2.1
          19 October 2023 at 1:38 pm

          I'm glad my kids played football and didn't get beaten to a pulp playing rugby. Having said that, those quarter-finals last weekend were four of the finest sporting contests I have ever seen, especially those 37 phases.

          • Cricklewood 3.1.2.1.1
            19 October 2023 at 1:58 pm

            Yeah a couple of the best games ever played, I'd include the refs in that as well.

          • Descendant Of Smith 3.1.2.1.2
            19 October 2023 at 3:34 pm

            Pfft I saw more injuries when I was playing soccer (including one fatality when a goal keeper hit his head on the upright of the goal above the padding) than I ever did playing rugby – admittedly both sports were a lot rougher through the 70's and 80's.

            The thing that stopped me going back to soccer after finishing rugby though was to go to a match and listen to the abuse given to referees in particular. A bigger bunch of jerks I've never seen before or since.

            and I have a child crippled for life from playing soccer as well – very bad injury. Late tackle.

    • Bearded Git 3.2
      19 October 2023 at 8:53 am

      McCaw and mates have developed an extensive multi-million dollar subdivision near Wanaka, getting consent for it in a sensitive rural landscape surprisingly easily.

      • Barfly 3.2.1
        19 October 2023 at 9:01 am

        To paraphrase Taika Waititi

        "New Zealand corrupt as fuck"

      • Tiger Mountain 3.2.2
        19 October 2023 at 9:35 am

        Yes, Mr McCaw was coy about his political views when playing, but if you used your imagination it was not hard to guess…and he admitted in his “leaving” interview with Kim Hill that because of the Rugby Admins views, National was the house brand for All Blacks and very few spoke out publicly in other directions. Silence is often condoning.

        Remember the pony puller in chief haunting their dressing rooms Steinie in hand and his appearance on the cover of Rugby News, masquerading as Captain, the squad in a V formation behind him, during 2014 election year? After various complaints he slipped through the rules because of the categorisation of the publication re publishing schedule. RN Editor squares off here…

        https://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/that-john-key-cover-rugby-news-responds/

        I raise this because the Natzos are so embedded in various quarters particularly in the provinces–sports clubs, fire stations, Police stations, business associations, Real Estate, Lodges and “benevolent” clubs many of which are defacto NZ National cadres.

        • Anne 3.2.2.1
          19 October 2023 at 11:23 am

          … the Natzos are so embedded in various quarters particularly in the provinces–sports clubs, fire stations, Police stations, business associations, Real Estate, Lodges and “benevolent” clubs many of which are defacto NZ National cadres.

          Remember Maggie Barry? Former MP for North Shore? She had her electorate office on the whole upper floor of a largish building emblazoned with blue and white Nat signage. It was next door to the Takapuna Police station also two storied and emblazoned with the usual blue and white police insignia. One could easily be mistaken for the other. I had it on good authority that the social camaraderie between the two groups went well beyond normal neighbourly friendliness.

          • Tiger Mountain 3.2.2.1.1
            19 October 2023 at 1:03 pm

            Interesting you mention that Anne, when I first moved to the Far North in the 90s, the Editor of the Northland Age had his own swipe card for the Kaitaia Police Station. This was confirmed to me by a number of people including hard bitten ex Auck Star journalist Tony Gee who worked up there.

            As the cops management changed and the newspaper ownership changed–no more swipe card–but still a very cosy relationship.

          • Lukas 3.2.2.1.2
            19 October 2023 at 8:04 pm

            Except that isn’t true Anne.

            Maggie Barry had her office at the Atlas Concrete yard opposite Westlake Girls.

            I’m sure you’ll have a theory about connections to the evil concrete industry that is just as bad though.

            You can street view Atlas Concrete Takapuna and see the current National MP for North Shore signs up.

            • SapphireGem 3.2.2.1.2.1
              19 October 2023 at 8:46 pm

              Lukas, Anne is correct. I had an appointment which was in the same building as Maggie Barry’s office, next to the Takapuna Police Station.

              The location of the North Shore MP’s office has changed since; however, Anne is correct about where the office was located when Barry was the MP.

              Why are you denying fact?

              • Anne …
                19 October 2023 at 9:20 pm

                Lukas is probably a Nat voter. When the present incumbent, Simon Watts took over they moved the office elsewhere. Maybe the owner of the building didn't want the electorate office to remain after Maggie stepped down – just guessing.

                I have heard from various sources Watts is very unpopular, but being a true blue seat they still vote for him.

      • Ad 3.2.3
        19 October 2023 at 9:50 am

        In the words of the prophet Shania Twain,

        "He's a fine piece of real estate and I'm gonna get me some land."

        SO very Jane Austen.

    • Adrian 3.3
      19 October 2023 at 9:13 am

      At least the ABs can win.

      • Sanctuary 3.3.1
        19 October 2023 at 12:30 pm

        But for how much longer? Being partisan has implications beyond just audience share. For example, the Irish rugby team can retain players because of a government policy that allows key sportsmen who end their playing careers in Ireland to claim back 40 per cent of the tax they paid over a 10-year period playing within the EU.

        If Irish rugby was seen as partisan in the way the likes of McCaw and some officials would like, such a scheme would be unlikely to last from one electoral cycle to another.

  4. tsmithfield 4
    19 October 2023 at 8:45 am

    I think Chippy should keep his job for several reasons:

    Firstly, I don't think it was his fault Labour lost. He was given a hospital pass, and did the best he could from that position IMO.

    Secondly, I can't really see anyone better to take over from him.

    Thirdly, he seems to be a pragmatist, which is what I think Labour needs right now. I think Labour should leave all the woke stuff to the Greens, and get back to its roots, and become more aligned to workers again. I think Labour has lost its soul in many respects.

    If anyone should get fired, it is whoever came up with that stupid "not National" marketing campaign that didn't give any clear messaging to vote Labour.

    I would have thought that the lesson would have been learned from the "we don't trust you Mr Key" campaign that didn't work either, likely for similar reasons.

    I think the "not National" campaign likely helped NZ First as much as Labour. If Labour wanted to go negative, it should have had a campaign along the lines of "National wants to do that; Labour will do this; so vote Labour."

    • Louis 4.1
      19 October 2023 at 6:31 pm

      It was National that breathed life back into Winston Peters.

      • Sabine 4.1.1
        19 October 2023 at 6:56 pm

        No, it was women.

        the moment Winnie said that males should not compete against women*, he won.

        https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2023/08/17/exclude-trans-women-from-womens-bathrooms-threaten-sports-funding-nz-first/

        And fwiw, it matters not how many 'women' a party claims to have, when for all intends and purposes these women* could a. be all men declaring themselves to be women, or b. the women* actively work to destroy everything other women* in the decades before them created such as female toilets, female prisons, female sports, female political lists, female awards.

        It was in large numbers women* that helped Winnie win, and it was Women* who helped Labour lose.

        *women – adult human female.

        Personally i am very pleased that the birthing body helper from Ilam (labour) can go back to their job helping men give birth.

        • observer 4.1.1.1
          19 October 2023 at 8:02 pm

          Do you have any evidence for these claims?

          Data about votes for parties (age, gender etc) will be available later, as there is detailed research carried out after every election. None exists yet.

          So far all we have is pre-election polling, which suggests you are mistaken. The female/male gender split does not favour the Right, especially not NZF:

          https://essentialreport.co.nz/questions/the-vote-including-undecided-2/

          https://essentialreport.co.nz/questions/nz-first-holding-the-balance-of-power/

          • Sabine 4.1.1.1.1
            19 October 2023 at 10:09 pm

            From the groups of women i interact with, NZ First was the vote of choice, as literally they are the only party that is not head over heels gone into the gender abyss.

            What can I say, we voted for the best out of totally unappealing bunch.

            In Rotorua, Labour got trashed, and considering that no one knew the quota dame that ran and no one actually ever saw that person who knew if they actually existed. The dude that ran for labour is even funnier, a lawyer that ran for mayor under the rainbow colors pretending to be independent of Labour, and then suddenly covered in Red. The Green Party girl must have found a proper job, or accepted that she is not gonna win anything in Rotorua as this is the first year out of five that i have not heard from her. And she ran for MP, council, and Mayor of Rotorua.

            ACT did ok. National creamed it. TPM will never win anything in Rotorua and any candidate will ruin their reputation forever if they do run under the mantle of TPM.

            You can take it as you like, but Labour lost because people did not vote for them, did not donate, did not volunteer, did in fact not even entertain Labour at all. And many many of them women – human females.

            As for the gender split who cares. Female and Male are now mixed sex category and thus are devoid of any meaning. The moment you include bepenised people (inverted or entire) into the pool of women – human females you’ve got nothing. Ditto for the males.

            And even then I can see bepenised people who self id as something different to their sex to rather vote for the Green Party as they are even more rabid on the destruction of women's rights then the Labour party. No pretense given by the Greens which is something I consider refreshing.

            Lastly, I expect the Green Party to be the death of the Labour party in the end.

            • Louis 4.1.1.1.1.1
              20 October 2023 at 1:54 pm

              That's your opinion, Observa asked for evidence. Even though Labour lost, they still got votes, so people did "entertain Labour" and donated and volunteered.

              "I expect the Green Party to be the death of the Labour party in the end."

              Wishful thinking.

  5. Mike the Lefty 5
    19 October 2023 at 9:09 am

    Its a pity we will never see a post election media headline like:

    "Big money buys NZ Election"

    because nobody wants to know about it.

    We are back to the bad old days of:

    "nothing to see here, move on"

    and

    "gone by lunchtime".

    Such is progress in our small country.

  6. tsmithfield 6
    19 October 2023 at 10:02 am

    A question I have is why it takes so long to count the specials? It was possible to count a multiples of the specials figure in one day. So, why should it take so long to count a smaller number?

    • Binders full of Women 6.1
      19 October 2023 at 10:27 am

      I understand that each special has to go back to its 'home' electorate and is counted there.

      • Visubversa 6.1.1
        19 October 2023 at 12:28 pm

        We cast our Special Votes in London last Thursday. There were a lot of people coming in to the High Commission to vote. Most of them were older people like us – travelers with sensible shoes and backpacks! I wore my Peterloo T shirt from Manchester to remind myself about what happens when the Boss Class makes all the rules.

        The Specials will all have to be sorted, checked, scanned and sent to the relevant Electorate Returning Officers.

    • Grey Area 6.2
      19 October 2023 at 2:16 pm

      Having worked in a voting place on Saturday and done the required training I have a much better understanding of special votes than I did before.

      Each person who makes a special vote has to make a special vote declaration to the returning officer in the electorate they believe they are entitled to vote in. The declaration is checked and witnessed by the issuing officer in the voting place who issues them a ballot paper which goes into an envelope with two pockets along with the declaration and is returned to the home electorate. If someone is enrolling and voting their enrolment form is processed separately post voting day. There are seven options as to why someone is making a special vote.

      From what I understand (as we just did the declaration checking and witnessing and ballot issuing) the specials are returned to the home electorate where each one has be be checked to confirm it is a valid special vote. I think this is what takes the time. The counting is the easy bit at the end.

  7. Ffloyd 7
    19 October 2023 at 10:07 am

    One for Labour.

    Three for National.

    One for Labour.

    Four for National.

    One for Labour

    ;..and counting.

    How are we doing John?

  8. Stephen D 8
    19 October 2023 at 10:09 am

    Our LEC is going to be looking at the way we campaign the future.

    The day of leaflets, billboards, and sign waving may be over. They are expensive, and either end up slashed, defaced, in the rubbish, or in our case, actually sawn down. Time, money and energy may be better put into social media. Door knocking might stay, as it is face to face contact. We don’t have the financial resources to spread ourselves too thin.

    Partly by consistently banging the law and order drum to ramp up fear, the National MP has turned our electorate into the most right wing in the country. Our candidate was outstanding; young, female, local, and incredibly hard working.

    I’ll be interested to see what other LECs are thinking.

    • Craig H 8.1
      19 October 2023 at 12:03 pm

      Mostly we do it because the other side does it, and some of our supporters get demoralised if we don't have at least some visibility in a sea of blue.

  9. Barfly 9
    19 October 2023 at 10:40 am

    Can someone here advise me – a superannuat living in a boarding house do they receive the living alone allowance or is it classed as shared accommodation?

    • SapphireGem 9.1
      19 October 2023 at 10:57 am

      Barfly – in your situation, if you are self-sufficient i.e., renting a room in a boarding house and buying your own groceries, doing your own cooking, etc. – you should be classed as living alone and therefore receive the living alone allowance.

      As Work and Income often give different advice to different people, and so much can depend on who you strike on the day, I would recommend first talking directly with Work and Income (if you can ever get through – current wait time 81 minutes!!!) and if you have no joy, contact a beneficiary advocate with your query; there are a lot dotted around New Zealand.

      Good luck.

    • roblogic 9.2
      19 October 2023 at 11:58 am

      Would have thought "shared" means a family or long-term partner situation not independent living

  10. joe90 10
    19 October 2023 at 10:59 am

    Despicable characters.

    //

    When 12-year-old Braden Fahey collapsed during football practice and died, it was just the beginning of his parents’ nightmare.

    Deep in their grief a few months later, Gina and Padrig Fahey received news that shocked them to their core: A favorite photo of their beloved son was plastered on the cover of a book that falsely argues COVID-19 vaccines caused a spike of sudden deaths among healthy young people.

    The book, called “Cause Unknown,” was co-published by an anti-vaccine group led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., President John F. Kennedy’s nephew, who is now running for president. Kennedy wrote the foreword and promoted the book, tweeting that it details data showing “ COVID shots are a crime against humanity.”

    The Faheys couldn’t understand how Braden’s face appeared on the book’s cover, or why his name appeared inside it.

    Braden never received the vaccine.

    https://news.yahoo.com/rfk-jr-spent-years-stoking-155201428.html

  11. observer 11
    19 October 2023 at 11:21 am

    I thought Luxon was making a reasonable point when he said negotiations should not be held in the media spotlight. Bored journalists want to be constantly fed the latest updates – the public, not so much.

    Except … Luxon has been all over the media every day since the election. Today he's in Auckland giving yet another press conference. He'll obviously be asked about the obvious, and he'll obviously not answer the obvious.

    His media advisers should take him aside and explain that if he has nothing to say, that's OK. But don't keep holding press conferences to say it.

    • Bearded Git 11.1
      19 October 2023 at 11:30 am

      The gaffe machine loves to talk Obs-why use one word when ten will do?

      This is a problem for a politician, because, as any experienced court witness will tell you, the less you say the better.

    • Anne 11.2
      19 October 2023 at 11:44 am

      He's addicted to the limelight. We've got three years of this. Think I'll be bypassing the 6pm news from now on. Watching that bald head spout slogans and platitudes night after night will be bad for my health.

  12. tsmithfield 12
    19 October 2023 at 11:33 am

    I think this whole vote counting thing is a bit of an anachronism. Surely, we could have computers with touch screens set up in the booths that feed the results straight into a central data base. The specials could be handled in a similar way, with a few more steps to complete the voting process. Then, we would have the results instantly, rather than waiting for several weeks.

  13. observer 13
    19 October 2023 at 11:36 am

    For those wondering about Special Votes, this table from the last election is useful.

    Not for where they will go (we don't know) but where they are from. Overwhelmingly, the Specials are cast within New Zealand. Not overseas. Ignore the talking heads on TV/radio, who don't do their homework.

    Electorate Candidate Special Declaration Votes by Electorate (electionresults.govt.nz)

    • weka 13.1
      19 October 2023 at 12:27 pm

      Greens apparently do well out of the overseas vote as well as the Specials. Disproportionately on the overseas vote I guess.

      Do you happen to have the link to the prelim results for 2017 and 2020?

      • Craig H 13.1.1
        19 October 2023 at 10:28 pm

        2017 and 2020

        For detailed figures, they can be derived from various results because the specials are usually available separately.

  14. roblogic 14
    19 October 2023 at 12:09 pm

    Reti cancelling public hospitals so that he can profit from private clinics

    Seymour trying to turn public education into a gambling app

    Mitchell crapping on human rights because he doesn't like gang patches

    Luxon about to open the gates of hell and ruin the future of home buyers and renters (+bonus! cancel your fair pay agreement)

    We are fucked

    • weka 14.1
      19 October 2023 at 12:26 pm

      it's bad and we're not fucked. We going to do the mahi over the next three years to change the government.

      • roblogic 14.1.1
        19 October 2023 at 12:46 pm

        Hopefully before then as this coalition of clowns seems likely to self-destruct

      • francesca 14.1.2
        19 October 2023 at 2:22 pm

        I'm inclined to agree.

        Labour will go away and soul search

        The Greens and TPM will consolidate and grow their vote.

        ACT will be exposed as incompetent…all bark no trousers…

        National will have to face all kinds of headwinds…climate related, economic….let's see how well they do in the eyes of a fractious public.The end of NZ first. Winnie just doesn't have it anymore,he's gone bizarre in a failed attempt to be relevant and NZ first is nothing without Winnie.Although I did rate his previous 2nd in command

        The old world is changing

      • Roy Cartland 14.1.3
        19 October 2023 at 4:14 pm

        Hope lies in a couple of scenarios:

        • NACT goes all Liz Truss and loses the electorate for years to come, trying to do things too quickly. Upheaval is too unpalatable.

        • NACT+NZF is shambolic and impotent. Scandal after scandal. Bickering and vetoing gets old, fast. Voters are appalled.

        • Timidity hamstrings any massive change, certainly nothing we can’t undo in three years. Even a double-termer is survivable.

        • (As I put in an earlier comment) It’s an utterly poisoned chalice due to international factors, the outlook is grim for any govt; voters want change, again.

        There’s no God-given rule that a govt should be a multi-termer, people might wake up and realise what they’ve voted for before then. Labour might get away from the failed centre. Younger, more desperate and concerned green voters may increase in the stats.

        • aj 14.1.3.1
          19 October 2023 at 4:36 pm

          Younger, more desperate and concerned green voters may increase in the stats.

          Trivia Q: How many people 2yrs and 364 days to young to vote this year, will be eligible in 2026?

          Wouldn't know where to start finding that.

          • Roy Cartland 14.1.3.1.1
            19 October 2023 at 4:43 pm

            I mean small-g green, btw. I thought it might happen this time round, due to the ever-loudening warnings we’re getting on climate and other emergencies. That message could increase (though not from this sorry upcoming govt). Interesting trend forming though, with the GP electorates and the increased GP vote.

          • Craig H 14.1.3.1.2
            19 October 2023 at 10:38 pm

            Stats NZ have reasonable population statistics – if you mean how many people will turn 18 in time to vote at the next general election, about 195,000 going by Infoshare.

        • Jack 14.1.3.2
          19 October 2023 at 4:46 pm

          I wouldn’t be so optimistic about Labour’s chances in 2026. National just need to run a very simple campaign. One Labour was unable to in 2023: these are the things we’ve done, these are the things that have improved.

          The other problem Labour has is they’re now just a smaller version of the party the country kicked out last weekend. It needs many MPs to move on during the term to bring fresh talent in. Little to his credit has done that. Unfortunately it’s just bought Shannan back, so no gains there.

          • Roy Cartland 14.1.3.2.1
            19 October 2023 at 5:44 pm

            Oh don't worry, I'm an old pessimist from waaaaay back. But if there was ever a need for optimism, it's now.

            • Jack 14.1.3.2.1.1
              19 October 2023 at 6:27 pm

              Like you, I’m incredibly optimistic… that labour won’t see government until to 2030’s, if they manage to survive as a party until then. I expect they have become an irrelevance both to the left and right. You just need to look at the regular posts from Greg / Mickeysavage to evidence this. It’s everyone else that’s wrong, never Labour.

              [Lately, your comments have become increasingly trollish, but I draw the line at attacking a TS Author with lies. This is your warning – Incognito]

          • Louis 14.1.3.2.2
            19 October 2023 at 6:50 pm

            What if the next 3 years do not go according to National's plan? If that turns out to be the case, do you think National could get away with running another scam in 2026?

            "a smaller version of the party" like National was after the 2020 election. National came back and so can Labour.

            • gsays 14.1.3.2.2.1
              20 October 2023 at 6:09 am

              Surely the conversation about Labour regaining power is about what Labour need to change or stand for. This daydreaming that NAct will be so bad is going to lead to disappointment.

              You have to give credit where it's due. A first term MP, made leader, turned a small, thoroughly beaten, divisive rabble into a government in waiting. Labour's failure to deliver on many things was partly responsible for that.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                20 October 2023 at 8:49 am

                Surely the conversation about Labour regaining power is about what Labour need to change or stand for. This daydreaming that NAct will be so bad is going to lead to disappointment.

                There's absolutely no doubt about what Luxon, Willis, Mitchell et al. stand for – it's to make life even more profitable for themselves and their backers, and even tougher for "bottom feeders".

                You have to admire National’s clarity of message, and their genuine desire and ability to deliver – on specific promises – let the 'good times' roll.

                Potential Opportunities for Property Investors [6 Oct 2023]

                Phones ringing off hooks, investors to capitalise off new government [18 Oct 2023]

              • Louis …
                20 October 2023 at 2:09 pm

                Not about "daydreaming" it was a hypothetical response to Jack's claims.

                "A first term MP, made leader, turned a small, thoroughly beaten, divisive rabble into a government in waiting."

                "He was bankrolled by the richest people in NZ.. the social media behind him was bankrolled by foreign money"

                "It's outrageous to say Luxon's own efforts got him across the line"

                • gsays …
                  20 October 2023 at 4:58 pm

                  I acknowledge Labour were well outspent come election time, but you can't realistically deny the change in discipline from the Nats once Luxon took over.

                  It was certainly better than the crew in charge.

      • Sabine 14.1.4
        19 October 2023 at 6:59 pm

        How is that hospital in Dunedin coming along?

  15. Barfly 15
    19 October 2023 at 4:48 pm

    I ll probably repeat this tomorrow –

    Immigration and House sales to overseas investors and Winston Peters

    I see some dead rats waiting to be swallowed.

    A mission for Labour is to identify achievable policy that's both popular and beneficial to society whilst at the same time being an anathema to the RW political parties. I know that's a tall order but I may have an idea or two rattling around that's worth looking at.

  16. Ffloyd 16
    19 October 2023 at 5:07 pm

    Barfly. I totally agree about the achievable policies and sounding out what the ‘bottom feeders’ really want and need and aim for that but don’t make impossible promises. We ourselves are joining the Labour Party and will do what it takes to make New Zealand/Aotearoa great again. We are poor boomers so have plenty of time to give to the cause as well as becoming financial members.

    I don’t think it will take long for Luxon to crumble. He’s already proven that even though he’s got a shiny dome he’s not very bright. It didn’t take Chris H long to turn him into a slavering mess. Seymour will probably cause a race war and then have to go into hiding. As for Winston every time I look at him the song ‘Never smile at a crocodile’ pops into my head. Not kidding. It’s very annoying. Good times ahead. Can’t wait to get started.

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