Open mike 22/10/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 22nd, 2020 - 60 comments
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60 comments on “Open mike 22/10/2020 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    22 October 2020 at 6:30 am

    More breathtaking hypocrisy from the U.K. state

    Last year, just weeks after the British state had forcibly removed journalist Julian Assange from his place of asylum, the British High Commission staged an Orwellian event in honour of World Press Freedom Day.

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/05/these-people-are-representative-of-new.html

    Now, the Johnson regime is at it again….

    https://twitter.com/FCDOGovUK/status/1318537453234520064

  2. Morrissey 2
    22 October 2020 at 6:46 am

    A new headache for the U.S. and its client regimes: democracy in Bolivia will not die

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55741.htm

  3. Ad 3
    22 October 2020 at 7:58 am

    OK so he explicitly links poverty and climate change, revolts against billionaires and 2020 capitalism, and joins the 20th century in supporting legal support for gay people.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/europe/pope-gay-couples-civil-union-intl/index.html

    At some point this Pope is going to gain the majority of Cardinals needed to give women freedom within the Church. Slowly he will catch up with many western Anglicans, and our local Presbyterians.

    Until then, he's leading a billion moral conservatives out in front far better than 99% of the US evangelicals on display right now.

    Hang in there man.

    • The Al1en 3.1
      22 October 2020 at 9:18 am

      Still wont support gay marriage, and in 2020, hoping papa will soon give 50% of the congregation the freedoms the other half have always taken for granted is at best a poor attempt at hiding how out of touch and inconsequential the catholics really are.

      But great they're on their way. Ladies, set 2060 in your diaries and, oh yeah, prey.

    • Anne 3.2
      22 October 2020 at 10:08 am

      I was told recently that the reason priests became celibate is because some 1000-2000 years ago, the 'church' found the upkeep of wives and children as well as the priests too much of a financial burden so they decided to ban relationships between priest and their flock. Naturally they enforced it by claiming it was decree from God.

      If there is any truth to that story then I say drop the celibate nonsense and let priests marry and have partners just like the rest of us. Could solve a lot of problems.

  4. Andre 4
    22 October 2020 at 8:11 am

    The Dotard of Doltistan's personal Nosferatu might have a new bit of distraction from trying to sell his hokey'd up Hunter Biden laptop story …

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8864821/Giuliani-caught-Borats-daughter-hand-pants.html

    • Gabby 4.1
      22 October 2020 at 10:38 am

      Will Rudi claim he was in on the joke all along?

      • Andre 4.1.1
        22 October 2020 at 10:56 am

        He might.

        Any normal person would feel some kind of need to square what they claim now to what they have previously said, but Giuliani has shameless lying down to an art. (A necessary skill for hanging out with the Quid Pro Quovidiot.)

        Giuliani told Page Six that in the midst of the interview, which was being conducted by a female interviewer “with a professional set-up of lights and camera,” a man came storming in wearing an outrageous outfit. The former mayor told the publication, “This guy comes running in, wearing a crazy, what I would say was a pink transgender outfit. It was a pink bikini, with lace, underneath a translucent mesh top, it looked absurd. He had the beard, bare legs, and wasn’t what I would call distractingly attractive.”

        While Giuliani would later identify the interview-crasher as Cohen, he told Page Six he did not realize it at first and reported the incident to the police. “This person comes in yelling and screaming, and I thought this must be a scam or a shake-down,” he said. “So I reported it to the police. He then ran away.”

        “I only later realized it must have been Sacha Baron Cohen,” Giuliani added. “I thought about all the people he previously fooled and I felt good about myself because he didn’t get me.”

        https://www.indiewire.com/2020/07/sacha-baron-cohen-pranked-rudy-giuliani-fake-interview-1234572188/

    • joe90 4.2
      22 October 2020 at 10:45 am

      In an hotel room with what he thought was a 15 year old with his hands down his strides. A new perspective on Giuliani's sleazy insinuations about Hunter Biden.

    • Cinny 4.3
      22 October 2020 at 1:47 pm

      Quick poll, does anyone here lay down to tuck their shirt into their pants?

      I don't know about you, but I stand up to do that.

  5. Muttonbird 5
    22 October 2020 at 8:31 am

    Perhaps Grant might show remorse for his imprisonable actions of 25 years ago and repay the victims of his fraud.

    People might then view his character in a different light.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/damien-grant-fights-for-insolvency-career-in-court-after-license-rejected-over-criminal-history/FCBD5TMQLFF7CGSIHUSHPLXF7U/

    • woodart 5.1
      22 October 2020 at 1:46 pm

      yes, grant supports a political party that pushes three strikes law, grant is on strike two? one more shoplifted loaf of bread and he's looking at striped sunlight. be a bugger if he was set up by someone he had put through the financial wringer!! perhaps for his own good, they may tell him to get a lawnmowing run. plenty of time to smirk while pushing a masport.

  6. aj 6
    22 October 2020 at 8:37 am

    MediaWatch on RNZ last night featured an segment on media bias in reporting the New Zealand's election in Murdoch-owned media overseas.

    …… Something to bear in mind when reading this comment piece from Rupert Murdoch’s The Australian: Danger across the ditch as incompetent leader Ardern wins office.

    It's written by a guy from a right-wing Australian think-tank who quotes Dr Oliver Hartwich, executive director of the New Zealand Initiative like this.

    “The next few years will be extremely tough. If we do not get our economic house in order, New Zealand could end up a failed state."

    Sounds a bit over the top and people reacted strongly to that on social media. But Oliver Hartwich is quoted as saying the same thing on Sunday by Stuff’s political editor – and he said the same thing back in May in an Institute newsletter.

    Two days before the election, The Australian's foreign editor Greg Sheridan said:

    "No international halo is so shabby, or so fraudulent, as that worn by New Zealand Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern.”

    It’s no surprise because Murdoch’s press takes sides in Australia supporting the right and his papers’ editors and columnists follow suit.

    Colin Peacock then paints left leaning media with the same brush

    In the UK, The Guardian leans left and hammers Boris Johnson’s Tories every chance it gets – sometimes damaging its own credibility in the process.

    Colin, perhaps some politicians deserve to be hammered.

    • Muttonbird 6.1
      22 October 2020 at 9:09 am

      Along with Don Brash and others, Dr Oliver Hartwich is a major backer of Damien Grant referenced in the comment @5 above.

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        22 October 2020 at 9:55 am

        Thanks for that enlightening comment aj – what a bloody disgrace to have to report. We've got The NZ Snuffitive and Oliver Hartwich from Germany? come like bugs imported to eat holes in the fabric of our NZ society, and being used as a fifth-columist in the main page columns of overseas newspapers as well as our own. Lies, damn lies, and the hyper-wealthy and their flatulent servants! What a lovely 21st century we have managed to build in the world.

        Stuff's political editor – is that Luke Malpass? Just appointed, and that shows an insensitivity by stuff to what is fair comment and what is right wing weighted – the flying in circles syndrome that so many journos display. Is this bird worthy of veterinary care or should it be put out of its misery?

    • ianmac 6.2
      22 October 2020 at 9:22 am

      Could the dark forces intrude in NZ? Yes.

      The anti Jacida rubbish poured out by Gideon Rozner, who is the head of policy at Australia’s powerful right wing think tank, the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA), and the NZ connections are two New Zealand members of the Atlas Network: The New Zealand Initiative and the NZ Taxpayers Union. The Atlas Network claims Williams’ campaign was instrumental in getting Ardern to dump the idea of a capital gains tax. etc etc

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/who-the-hell-is-gideon-rozner-anyway

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.2.1
        22 October 2020 at 9:34 am

        The linked article is incredibly important for NZers to read, IMHO. The likes of the Koch brothers and Gina Rinehart are using their money to influence the NZ media and politics.

        • aj 6.2.1.1
          22 October 2020 at 10:12 am

          +100

        • tc 6.2.1.2
          22 October 2020 at 11:48 am

          Easy solution. Turn TVNZ/RNZ into proper public broadcasters so people can tune in when they want the truth.

          Or we can leave them alone to continue using the hootons, pagani's etc being asked patsy questions by the Espiners/Ferguson/Ryan etc.

      • aj 6.2.2
        22 October 2020 at 9:36 am

        Yes the 'dark forces' are at work and won't relent. Watched a doco on Al Jazeera yesterday 'The Unfair Game' Big data politics and how the American public were tricked into opening the doors of the White House to Donald Trump (2018) and a companion piece to The Great Hack (2019). Both highly recommended. The right fight to win and use any means available.

    • Stephen D 6.3
      22 October 2020 at 9:51 am

      Boris, getting hammered by Jonathan Pie.

      https://youtu.be/CYmn76Y50Us

    • Gabby 6.4
      22 October 2020 at 10:41 am

      Did he give an example of the pommedia damaging their credibility attacking Johnson? Maybe 'Johnson' was a slip of the tongue and he meant 'Corbyn'.

    • tc 6.5
      22 October 2020 at 11:45 am

      Rudd's started a petition over “the abuse of media monopoly in Australia” and “to make recommendations to maximise media diversity ownership for the future lifeblood of our democratic system”across the ditch.

      In the video circulating via Facebook and Twitter, Rudd describes the Murdoch corporation, which owns 70 per cent of newspapers in Australia, as a “cancer on our democracy”.

      Nothings binding in terms of # signatures etc on scomo to do anything and a royal commissions will be the last thing Liberals want looking at their fav media mogul.

      • greywarshark 6.5.1
        22 October 2020 at 12:49 pm

        In Australia they used to have an idea of separation of media system but the drongoes didn't maintain that and now look at their media situation. And note how influential Labour were in loosening up controls, just like here.

        Apart from a period during colonial times, the ownership of newspapers was free of government regulation until the 1980s, when Labor governments under Bob Hawke and Paul Keating introduced changes that continue to define the media landscape 30 years later….

        For Andrew Dodd, the program director of journalism at Swinburne University of Technology, 1987 [Labour's Hawke in power and neolib changes under way] was a watershed year.*

        'Rupert Murdoch bought into The Herald and Weekly Times, and in doing that he acquired the company that his father had built up. He already had assets but then he came in and bought six metropolitan newspapers as well as a raft of community papers around the country. So here he was sitting on an absolute mountain of printed publications. In the same year, the Trade Practices Commission said that this really didn't create market dominance, which was an extraordinary finding.

        (No wonder Julia Gillard got run out of town.)

        In 2011, with Julia Gillard as prime minister, the Labor government attempted a root and branch rethinking of regulation to try to take into account a media environment that now included the internet. The Convergence Review attempted to come up with a way to address powerful emerging media while also creating some commonality in regulation, so that the same standards would be applied, for example, to a print newspaper story and the online version of that story….

        'I do think that the interaction between media proprietors in Australia with politicians is different to other countries because of one very important difference, and that is that we have very high levels of media concentration in Australia compared to other countries,' adds Carson.

        'If we are looking particularly at print, the two largest proprietors, or even if you take the top three, have a 98 per cent reach of audience across Australia. That is tremendously influential.

        *Background on why 1987 was an important year:

        https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/confs/2000/kelly-address.html

        …These policies [neoliberal economic recipe] needed a fresh government prepared to defy vested economic interests. Such a government would win much support for its boldness.

        These ideas came from the top down. The public wanted change – but it was not protesting in the streets for a floating dollar, free trade and low inflation. The intellectual momentum for the 1980s reforms was elite-driven.

        • greywarshark 6.5.1.1
          22 October 2020 at 1:30 pm

          Coincidence – after finding these reports referring to Australia and Bob Hawke I have come onto this piece about Yes Minister and the enthusiasm with which Bob Hawke embraced Paul Eddington, sort of.

          • greywarshark 6.5.1.1.1
            22 October 2020 at 1:43 pm

            See at 9 mins where the director? says that the UK Yes Minister aims to show everyone warts and all unlike the USA West Wing where all have to he perfect, more like The Truman Show I suppose, just a total sham. However they, go for all the UK institutions with words like shoddy and sleazy. 'You aren't JC, you are just a naughty boy' sort of thing.

      • Gabby 6.5.2
        22 October 2020 at 5:00 pm

        ScoMoFo kno what side his bread buttered.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.6
      22 October 2020 at 1:47 pm

      The NZInstitute and Murdoch are just trying to ensure that the rich remain in power by raising people's fears.

      Of course, once people truly realise that government spending is what actually funds the economy and that profits are just a tax by another name then we might start changing our society for the better.

  7. Gabby 7
    22 October 2020 at 11:33 am

    Be interesting to know what agency was responsible for testing those Russukrainian fishers, and who approved the deal. Is it Mfat or Mbie does this stuff? Is Gnashie in the mix anywhere?

    • RedBaronCV 7.1
      22 October 2020 at 3:19 pm

      I find it all a bit worrying. Doesn't look like there was any effort to stop covid transfer on the plane or pre boarding? did the companies bother to have any importing controls over this- and the more cases on shore the greater chance that it leaks into the community.

      Hopefully though it can be used to deter to much other private importing of labour forces based on this. I'd also like to see the plan for the sharp reduction in offshore labour in favour of training locals.

  8. Byd0nz 8
    22 October 2020 at 12:02 pm

    The Movement For Socialism (MAS) scored an impressive victory in Bolivia this Sunday. Overturning the bullshit US inspired coup against the legitimate Morales election victory. Lets hope the people of Venezuela can take heart from this with their ongoing struggle against the Yankee facist interference.

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      22 October 2020 at 12:07 pm

      Agreed Gabby…and Morales can come back home from exile in Argentina….he should get some reception. (Maybe he is already back?)

    • I Feel Love 9.1
      22 October 2020 at 2:42 pm

      The Amazing Randi did some very important work, a great sceptic, and very, very funny.

  10. Corey Humm 10
    22 October 2020 at 1:14 pm

    Is it just me or are the left more happier in defeat. We could have woken up on Sunday to a Nat/act govt wanting to do australian style task force raptor police reforms, tax cuts , allowing people to with draw from their kiwi saver, zero investment in health reforms and a program of austerity, welfare education and social cuts and ruthanasia on steroids.

    Instead we have the biggest left wing mandate in our lifetimes to work on climate, education, health transport reforms a govt that wants to feed kids in schools free trades and wants to do more but will have to be pushed like all great left wing govts have to be pushed.

    Anyone would thing Nat / act had a super majority.

    I've criticized this govt a lot but it never had the numbers for rapid transformation and our expectations of a three way coalition were incredibly high. Ardern is now talking about accelerating change , it's million miles better than the alternative and if we push this govt I believe it will be more progressive. It actually did do a lot of good in the first term but this term it needs to be 3x faster and 3x more transformational.

    I hope labour and greens can work out a confidence agreement that gives the greens experience policy reforms and the ministerial portfolios outside of cabinet to see those reforms happen, I was hoping labour would get 60 seats and the greens about what they got so we could blame all the left wing stuff we need to do on the greens (even though we mostly wanna do it) but now we have a mandate. The left are either saying we can't do it because swing voters voted labour (when was that a bad thing, I think they wanted that transformational change that Ardern spoke of throughout the last period) or that nothing can ever change because the labour party, the party of reforms has a mandate to do nothing, with covid still unfolding and the economic crisis it brings on and labour being elected to do the recovery both economically and socially Labour can say that anything they do is a part of the covid recovery.

    We won the party vote in nearly every Electorate, every city except Auckland, Tauranga are seas of red, Ilam, rangitata hell even whangerei may be red after specials, the greens increased their vote and the Maori party have been reelected on a left wing mandate and the labour party just wow… Let's not write this govt off before the votes even been counted and if lab and the greens can't use this historic mandate on climate change reform to work together then something is seriously wrong with us.

    Victory is so rare in the left. So rare, we lose globally. Let's savior this victory and yes organize to push the govt to be more active but some of us have been given great hope by this win and some of us feel really happy that this country is not a divided mess and that instead of voting for me this country voted for we, we can make this country a better place, let the chips fall before we right this govt off.

    Sorry for the rant but you'd literally think we lost and sometimes I wonder, do left wingers prefer nights like 2014 to nights like Saturday?

    • RedBaronCV 10.1
      22 October 2020 at 3:34 pm

      I too am grateful that we don't have Judith and struggle to believe that 35% of the country were willing to take a chance on catching covid.

      I'm not sure if it is the media presentation or labour itself that is coming over as so risk adverse. I do feel though that the electorate at large – will still wanting to be employed but not in a dead end seasonal minimum rate if you are lucky job- has a lot of concern about bigger issues both economic and social and would like some progress on those.

    • greywarshark 10.2
      22 October 2020 at 4:13 pm

      Victory is so rare for the left that we have to keep our heads while we unwrap what the gift is made of. No good getting a lovely toy if the key isn't with it. That's why everyone is thinking through implications – Mum we aren't there yet are we!

      But good news. All wasp haters will be pleased. And look how well we collaborated for the common good. Why can't we get this mode of behaviour rippling across the world?

      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC2010/S00038/world-first-wasp-genome-completed.htm

      In a world first, New Zealand researchers have sequenced the genome of three wasps, two of which are invasive wasps in New Zealand, paving the way for new methods of control for these significant pests.

      Genomics Aotearoa researchers working at the University of Otago and Te Herenga Waka-Victoria University of Wellington, alongside colleagues from the UK, Australia and California have successfully completed a three-year project to sequence and interpret the genomes of the common wasp (Vespula vulgaris), German wasp (Vespula germanica), and the western yellowjacket (Vespula pensylvanica).

      Now another insect that could invade our borders as we have the right climate for it. Perhaps we could work with the Chinese and other Asian laboratories on the dreaded Chinese hornet – that would be a good collaboration also.

      [deleted]

      [multiple links get caught in the filter, no explanation or the links and mods are likely to treat them as spam – weka]

  11. Patricia Bremner 11
    22 October 2020 at 3:11 pm

    We should start applying the kindness we want to this Government. I hear many critical voices here, and small support for what they have managed.
    Voters understood, Winston wanted too much status quo and the Greens think of this Government in terms of past iterations, and tokenism.

    Jacinda Ardern is such a breath of fresh air she has made a mark internationally, and that has attracted enemies in the oil coal and right wing think tanks.

    She has made New Zealanders proud of our country, prepared to help each other and listen to the scientists. This Labour Party has attracted high calibre representatives who will be able to take more of the load.

    We want this Government to right all the wrongs, during a pandemic, which is still raging, and to govern for all.

    The bitterness some feel with real reason will take many a balm to still the pain, and prejudging is unhelpful to the sensitive negotiations taking place right now.

    We hope to have a combination of parties, and the real shape of Government will show after the special votes are counted. 'Till then be glad we are not waking up to Judith and that lot.

    • Whispering Kate 11.1
      22 October 2020 at 3:36 pm

      +100

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2
      22 October 2020 at 4:51 pm

      We want this Government to right all the wrongs, during a pandemic, which is still raging, and to govern for all.

      As the saying, apparently wrongly attributed to pretty much everybody, says:

      Never let a good crisis go to waste.

      Labour are very much at the point where they're going to let the present crisis go to waste as they try to maintain BAU – especially as the crisis proves BAU to be contrary to a resilient economy and society.

      They really do need to use the crisis to move away from BAU.

    • Patricia Bremner 11.3
      22 October 2020 at 5:23 pm

      Could this @ 12 be removed? I corrected some spacing and it worked but repeated the whole thing lol sorry everyone… once @ 11 is enough.

      Draco, Jacinda has said she wants to "build back better"

      I don't think she listens to JK, as he meant "make money in the fire sale" when he said “never let a good crises go to waste".

      • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1
        22 October 2020 at 10:28 pm

        Doesn't have to be used to make things worse. The crisis can be used to make things better and so the Labour party should be doing so.

        And its not even unscrupulous as it really does need to be done.

  12. RedBaronCV 12
    22 October 2020 at 4:12 pm

    See Stuff has another think piece -without much think- on possible seasonal worker shortage.

    However I had found a piece from 2019 in Stuff – not sure why they published it!- that if I read it correctly stated that gold kiwifruit returned about $95000 per hectare and cost about $2000 to pick.

    Now I know there are other costs but it would be very interesting to see the per hectare returns of a lot of other fruits. Cherries at about $20 retail per kg so say $10 cost – so a worker needs to pick some 2.5kg per hour plus more for other overheads ?

    This doesn't seem to be part of any of the media stories.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113257301/kiwifruit-picking-hot-hard-work-that-nobody-wants-to-do

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300138256/fruitpicking-jobs-going-begging-who-is-really-to-blame

    • Adrian 12.1
      22 October 2020 at 5:33 pm

      I think you might find that cost to a producer of agri and hort crops is closer to 80 to 90% of return. Viticulture, depending on the season is lucky to average 7% before tax.
      Fuck knows why we do it.
      That retail cherry price in a supermarket is at least twice the growers return, picking is one week in 52, they don’t look after themselves for the other 51.

      Urban ignorance of how food happens is staggering, except for those few who have attempted to grow $50 lettuces and $80 a kilo tomatoes.

      • WeTheBleeple 12.1.1
        22 October 2020 at 9:18 pm

        That's simply not true. Returns are lucrative which is why every man and his dog jumped on the bandwagon.

        https://www.apata.co.nz/orchard-buyers-guide

        "For the 2016/17 harvest, the average forecast return ("OGR" or Orchard Gate Return) for Green Kiwifruit is just over $53k per hectare and for Gold Kiwifruit it is just over $95k. With average on orchard costs sitting at about $30k per hectare, the maths is pretty simple and compelling. Remember, this is the average. When growers put in the time and effort, the rewards are generally, better."

      • RedBaronCV 12.1.2
        22 October 2020 at 10:11 pm

        Um I'm not that urban. I do realise that the local veggie market is not super profitable to put it mildly – on the other hand AFAIK they also don't employ RSE and backpackers to any great extent. On the other hand there was a time when tomato paste fetched huge prices – although that is now gone?

        I'm more interested in the seasonal vines and fruit picking that use RSE labour and backpackers and keep muttering about labour shortages. Is it that the stuff is not profitable unless the wage rates are rock bottom or could the wages go up? For the export markets I guess it makes sense to concentrate on the more profitable crops bearing in mind that the production life can be 10 ++ years for the tree or vine and retruns can vary over that life.
        So I do think it is a valid question that the MSM could be asking along with queries about the extent of foreign ownership of the sector.

        Frankly for me I would far rather help a local owner than some business where the profit is being siphoned off by overseas ownership or a wad of local intermediaries.

        Otherwise did I touch a nerve there? Something best not discussed?

        • Adrian 12.1.2.1
          23 October 2020 at 9:19 am

          Markets determine the price and the vast majority are supermarket chains and they are arseholes, constantly driving down the return so they can claim to be the "cheapest food "in town.

          The kiwifruit returns are a bit of bullshit, because Zespri etc have propietry rights to the cultivars, "'Use of " charges for the plants are astronomical , in the 100s of thousands of dollars per hectare but these are not counted as "orchard "costs, but as start up expenses.

  13. PaddyOT 13
    22 October 2020 at 4:33 pm

    Ooops Sweden?

    "Sweden has now seen a doubling in cases in three weeks, hitting more than 1000 new cases in one day for the first time since June,"
    "Sweden's cumulative death total from infections is 10 times higher than neighbouring Norway and Finland and five times higher than Denmark."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-swedens-strategy-takes-a-turn-as-cases-spike/KP3SUPMIC7YZ5NQXEPTSIL63B4/

  14. Stuart Munro 14
    22 October 2020 at 4:47 pm

    It seems that kea may be able to learn to recognise 1080 baits.

    This is crucial for kea because DoC, who are ostensibly concerned to protect them, will keep poisoning in any event. For the keas, it's a bit like having Harold Shipman as one's GP.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.1
      22 October 2020 at 4:52 pm

      The 1080 is better than having the possums eating their eggs/chicks.

      • Barfly 14.1.1
        22 October 2020 at 5:39 pm

        In my young days I worked as a possum trapper for a while and witnessed first hand the utter devastation that possums can wreak upon the bush – 1080 is by far the lesser evil.

  16. Burton 16
    23 October 2020 at 1:56 pm

    Twitter and facebook are censoring Biden articles now. Is Democracy dead in the usa?

    What has become of journalism?

    Thank you