Open mike 22/10/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 22nd, 2024 - 48 comments
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48 comments on “Open mike 22/10/2024 ”

  1. Tony Veitch 1
    22 October 2024 at 6:03 am

    It is time to get mega-bucks out of the NZ political system!

    This is not a question, but a statement!

    When large donations to the three right wing parties exceeds $5,200,000 and those to the left wing parties is less than $1,500,000, (https://thestandard.org.nz/will-this-be-a-one-term-government/) you get a sense of something not being quite in kilter!

    And the quite open corruption of this government is a dangerous trend for our democracy.

    While I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest there is a money conspiracy (though the existence of the Atlas Network might suggest otherwise) to subvert our democracy, the willingness and ability of the Uber-wealthy to influence our political processes is clear to see. Rich people tend to be (by the very nature of their acquisitive tendencies) anti-democratic.

    So let’s propose an Electoral Integrity Bill.

    Here are some ideas – my hope is that readers of the Standard will contribute and the overall thrust of the conversation will be taken up by a member of the Labour Party (I tore my Labour membership card up in 1987 and never rejoined) the Greens or TPM (or all 3 together).

    • first of all, make the elections fully funded by the government.
    • 60 electorates, a maximum of $20,000 each from govt.
    • Max 60 list candidates, $10,000 each
    • This would give each political party a maximum of $1,800,000 it could spend during the election period. Add to that a quite modest total for contributions, say $100,000 total.
    • ALL political parties receive the same contribution from the govt. If a minor party can field 60 electorate candidates and 60 list candidates it receives the same as one of the major parties.
    • If a party only fields say 6 candidates for electorates, it can only claim 6 list candidate contributions.
    • This is the maximum any party can spend during the electoral window (say 3 months before election day).
    • This would, I believe, put the emphasis back on policy, not billboards or Tik Tok
    • Make the maximum individual contribution $20,00 $20 per party, with a maximum contribution of $100. So I, a pensioner, can give $100, providing I can find 5 left wing parties, and Graeme Hart (for example) a man with 11,000 million dollars, can only contribute a maximum of $100. Level the playing field!
    • Corporations/businesses/unions can only give a maximum of $500, and only with the full consent of their employees/members.
    • Make electoral fraud a criminal offence, with punishment (not in fines, which billionaires would laugh at) in Mandatory prison sentences (say 1 month for the first offence, 3 months for a second offence, 6 months and so on). The rich might not find a short spell in Mt Eden quite so funny.
    • A conviction would be criminal and go on a parson’s passport (that might make some rich people pause).
    • Give the Electoral Commission some real teeth to go after offenders, regardless of wealth. After all, what is more important than the integrity of our democracy

    Now for something perhaps a little more controversial (though it shouldn’t be).

    I would like to see our government become bicameral again. Resurrect the Upper Chamber and move the Waitangi Tribunal into it, with added briefs: to review each and every law passed by the House of Representatives to ensure it is fair and equitable for ALL New Zealanders. Give it the ability to send legislation back to the House if it doesn’t meet these (fair and equitable) guidelines.

    This, I believe, would be giving full force to the idea of partnership in Te Triti.

    We also need a radical reform of the tax system – but that’s another story.

    [lprent: corrected amount ]

    Reply
    • Bearded Git 1.1
      22 October 2024 at 6:46 am

      Agree with most of that Tony, except for the need for a bicameral parliament. The House of Lords has always seemed a toothless waste of money to me.

      A new left-wing government elected in 2026 should enact this.

      [p.s. its a bit confusing where you say "maximum individual contribution $20,00 per party". Change this to $20]

      Reply
    • Mikey 1.2
      22 October 2024 at 9:25 am

      I would quite like to see Labour put some time and effort into preparing workable policies that will benefit ordinary people, and that can be implemented despite the best efforts of entrenched nats in the public service.

      Reply
    • SPC 1.3
      22 October 2024 at 11:09 am

      Reform in the area of campaign finance is not seen as the purview of one party or coalition government – but of the wider parliament. And is usually based on advice of such as the Electoral Commission.

      https://www.equaljusticeproject.co.nz/articles/y5lhio4w8mz73y8v10rca50azzkk972020

      I prefer some state funding of parties – with some matching funds (for small individual contributions only). Otherwise transparency of funding.

      As per a bicameral parliament, this has long been proposed by Maori (whether sovereignty claimants, or as part of a restoration of chieftainship separate from the colonial/settler parliament).

      For mine, this need not be part of the parliamentary governance process at all. But might be state funded all the same.***

      This was in the He Puapua report as per our signing UNDRIP (Ardern was dismissive of the need for it).

      An alternative is the One Voice approach Oz was considering (their response to UNDRIP). They still took this to a referendum.

      This the use of the process used in the UK, where the PM would inform the Crown of its plans and the Crown office person might/would/could offer advice (a courtesy process). They were to give an indigenous body group that consultation.

      For mine, we should do this. But call it a Treaty of Waitangi body*** – for consultation with iwi who had lost article 2 chieftainship with the loss of their lands. A mere shadow of recognising Maori sovereignty. One can expect Maori to advocate for Maori involvement in the delivery of services to Maori.

      https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/06-06-2024/for-and-against-a-maori-parliament

      Reply
    • Cricklewood 1.4
      22 October 2024 at 11:46 am

      How does the propsed work with tiny minority parties that might manage to put together a load candidates think Destiny or Liz Gunn type who would potentially be able to game the system for financial gain?

      Reply
      • Tony Veitch 1.4.1
        22 October 2024 at 12:03 pm

        They have a right to be heard – but a weaponised Electoral Commission could look closely at all spending to ensure it is used correctly, and not deposited in a numbered account in the Cayman Islands.

        Far better to 'waste' a bit of money this way than have $500,000 donation secure a slot on the Fast Track Bill.

        Reply
      • tWig 1.4.2
        22 October 2024 at 8:58 pm

        Gunn already did game the system. $66k of NZ taxpayer money was given to NZ Loyal as a broadcast budget in the 2023 election, pro-rata’d from the overall electoral broadcast budget.

        go to the general broadcast allocation section

        Reply
  2. koina 2
    22 October 2024 at 9:41 am

    Financial contributions don't affect election results in this country.

    NZ has had a National / Labour turn about pattern since 1949.

    National has had four three term (*1) and one four term Governments 47/48 years.

    Labour has had only 1 three term, two 2 term and 2 one term Governments 27 years

    So By 2026 National will have had 50 years in power to Labour's 27.

    My earliest years featured 20 years of National and only 3 years of Labour.

    So waiting till 2029

    for the next Left wing Gov't is a doddle for me.

    Not so for many younger folks though of course.

    In 2023 after 6 years of the Left the swing voters migrated blue.

    ACTS Treaty principle Bill was to get enough of the swing to get over the threshold.

    In 2029 the same voters will migrate red again.

    Greens and TMP will get much bigger numbers in the swing left.

    Then it will be all about quickly rescinding all the odious Right wing policy.

    Nothing to do with money. Its just the political cycle.

    So if you wanna be a left wing MP in a left wing Gov't time your run for 2029.

    (*1) . Includes the two year term 1949-51 (Waterfront strike. 1951)

    Reply
    • Obtrectator 2.1
      22 October 2024 at 11:17 am

      You're not really comparing apples with apples. The pre-MMP scene was a very different business from what we see now. Under MMP Labour would have taken the 1978 and 1981 elections, and the left-leaning bloc the 1993 one. Further proof (if any were needed) that FPTP, coupled with some subtle* gerrymandering, tended to favour the RW lot.

      *and occasionally not so subtle – remember how Marton was taken out of Rangitikei for the 1984 GE

      Reply
    • KJT 2.2
      22 October 2024 at 4:07 pm

      Huge effect on the Coalition of cockups policies, though.

      Reply
  3. Adrian 3
    22 October 2024 at 11:21 am

    The problem is how much of that RW money is coming in from offshore, my bet is that it is a substantial proportion. Is it even legal?. Certainly offshore money carries heavvy penalties in the US.

    Reply
    • Tony Veitch 3.1
      22 October 2024 at 12:06 pm

      Agreed. Perhaps make it that only NZ citizens can make contribution.

      Though, with a $100,000 limit on contributions per party, it shouldn't be a major problem.

      Reply
    • tWig 3.2
      22 October 2024 at 9:07 pm

      Snigger. Off-shore money is not a problem in the UK, where they run their own tax havens. The UK Conservative Party allows non-UK residents membership. I'm not even sure that you have to be a UK citizen to join.

      As its leadership is voted on by the 100K or so secret party members, you end up with charmers like Liz Truss as PM. And electoral funding from members of Russian oligarch families.

      Reply
    • AB 4.1
      22 October 2024 at 12:01 pm

      Now there'll be a flurry from NZME milking the story even further. Maybe interviews with Ms Tana when she gets to say how shocked and betrayed she feels and how horrible and unprincipled the Greens are – accompanied by gasps of sympathetic horror from the 'impartial' host? Meanwhile, Andrew Bayly will disappear out the rear-view mirror like a stunned possum on the roadside who's been merely struck a glancing blow.

      Reply
      • Anne 4.1.1
        22 October 2024 at 12:39 pm

        yes

        My thoughts too. Hard not to become totally cynical about current NZ political scene.angry

        Reply
        • tWig 4.1.1.1
          22 October 2024 at 9:10 pm

          Is that political media reporting you refer to? Or the political scene? Probably both.

          Reply
          • Anne 4.1.1.1.1
            22 October 2024 at 10:59 pm

            The political scene. In particular the CoC parties. They have got to be the most thick headed, amateurish bunch of meat-heads in the history of this land. A few of them are at least competent and, believe it or not, Judith Collins is one of them. Doesn't mean I like them.

            Reply
    • Mike the Lefty 4.2
      22 October 2024 at 3:27 pm

      The Greens must be thankful that the Andrew Bayly scandal propped up when it did, has taken some of the media attention away from the Darleen Tana expulsion.

      Reply
      • tWig 4.2.1
        22 October 2024 at 8:25 pm

        The only thing wrong the Greens did here was poor candidate screening. I don't think they'll lose votes on this issue. Tama is so clearly in the wrong.

        Reply
  5. SPC 5
    22 October 2024 at 12:10 pm

    The forces of mammon of the imperial city and its local "professional elite cartel wannabees" have come for the provinces (the apprenticeship pathway of ye olde times).

    https://archive.li/CcIJ7#selection-3901.0-3970.0

    The Borders will never surrender. Reivers ride, become unruly.

    Reply
  6. SPC 6
    22 October 2024 at 12:20 pm

    NZME follows Newshub and TVNZ.

    Retreating from the regions to "develop its (stay in) Wellington and Christchurch satellites for reach to the urban right outside their Auckland base.

    And now from a long time video news bulletin (too long and "unfocused" for the TikTok exiles from mainstream TV style news).

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350455854/nzme-axes-long-running-video-news-bulletin

    Reply
  7. joe90 7
    22 October 2024 at 12:22 pm

    Priorities.

    /

    ( source )

    The Government is reviving a plan to build a mega-prison in Waikato as part of its $1.9 billion spend in the upcoming Budget goes towards an 810-bed extension of Waikeria prison.

    The package would also fund 685 new Corrections staff, including 470 new Corrections officers which wouldn’t be limited by attrition. Almost $80 million would go towards a National Party campaign commitment to provide rehabilitation services to the increasing number of prisoners on remand.

    About $1.5b of the four-year package was new money, with an extra $442m from cuts made to Corrections amid the Government’s effort to limit “back-office” spending in the public service.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/govt-revives-waikato-mega-prison-plans-as-19b-spend-pays-for-810-bed-extension/PPAELYJ7XRE6TNLY42CVF4PYRY/

    Reply
    • SPC 7.1
      22 October 2024 at 12:25 pm

      Rising unemployment, taking people off waiting lists (health care, housing and jobs) … cuts of funding to community organisations including food banks and … incarceration.

      Sort of complements the rest of it.

      Fast followers of the American class order regime (ACT advocating for the term limit welfare aspect).

      Reply
    • tWig 7.2
      22 October 2024 at 8:27 pm

      Betcha it'll be a PPP build, with a nice private contract to run the prison.

      Reply
  8. tsmithfield 8
    22 October 2024 at 1:08 pm

    Something a bit creepy.

    I am using the advanced chat version of Chat GPT 4.

    I recently introduced Chat GPT 4 to my 3.5 year old grandsons, Seth and Jordy. I told them that Chat GPT is a robot without a body. So, they quite often ask to speak to the "robot without a body''.

    Anyway, they also fight each other a lot, with rough and tumble sort of play. I thought they could do with learning something like Judo. So, I asked Chat Gpt what the youngest age is that children can get into Judo in NZ. It came back with five years old. And then asked "'Is that for Seth and Jordy?"

    I found that a bit spooky, because Chat GPT, in that case, is not only responding to the current question, but also reflecting on previous information and making assumptions based on that. Quite human-like behaviour.

    Reply
  9. SPC 9
    22 October 2024 at 2:03 pm

    A council is getting its own personal reporter/correspondent to the Minister for Local Government.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/simeon-brown-puts-observer-onto-shambles-wellington-city-council/A3K75AHYY5AXVOBX2NSHEFDH6A/

    (Presumably) the Ombudsmen and women were too busy with a backlog of work to provide the same service for the GG.

    Reply
    • SPC 9.1
      22 October 2024 at 2:15 pm

      More seriously I noted last week that the Wellington Council had a lower level of debt than Auckland.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17-10-2024/#comment-2014530

      And wondered whether Wellington and other councils were unable to borrow for water as freely for water infrastructure investment without an authorising arrangement with government first.

      The Minister is suggesting they can lower rates (in the short to medium term) by funding more of the water infrastructure via loan debt.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17-10-2024/#comment-2014402

      However in a statement, Brown said there were several other problems with the councils’ finances including its decision to pay for most of its water investment with rates rather than debt, a decision which Brown said would “overcharge” Wellington City ratepayers by $700 million over the next ten years.

      “Advice provided to me by the Department of Internal Affairs highlights that the Council is not utilising its balance sheet appropriately in order to maintain critical infrastructure like water, and that is failing to manage its insurance risk appropriately. These risks have been increased due to its recent decision to amend the Long Term Plan,” Brown said.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/simeon-brown-puts-observer-onto-shambles-wellington-city-council/A3K75AHYY5AXVOBX2NSHEFDH6A/

      The WCC could consider borrowing $500M and placing this in the Insurance Risk Fund.

      In more depth here.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360460123/government-appoint-crown-observer-wellington-city-council

      Reply
      • Chris 9.1.1
        22 October 2024 at 2:51 pm

        The council refusing to sell its shares in the airport to Luxon's mates will not be tolerated.

        Reply
        • tWig 9.1.1.1
          22 October 2024 at 8:36 pm

          Tim Brown WCC councillor did a good job talking to RNZ Checkpoint.

          Refuted the Minister's claim of financial naivety, saying the WCC's finance advice is top-notch. He also strongly disagreed that WCC needs to take on debt to solve its problems, which is the ‘solution’ being pushed hard by Simeon Brown. Not surprising, since that’s the CoC’s MO.

          Pointed out that WCC will have to pay the observer costs. A relaxed, competent-sounding spokesperson.

          Reply
        • tWig 9.1.1.2
          22 October 2024 at 9:16 pm

          Nona Peltier at RNZ this pm floated rumours Akld is selling its airport shares, based on an Oz financial mag's reporting. This despite a council position to date of no sale.

          She couldn't confirm or deny from the council, but doubts anything will happen publically before Wayne Brown returns from a junket to Brazil.

          Guess there’s a multinational mega-buyer who planned to pick up both, thanks; and is hustling the government to make it happen.

          Reply
    • SPC 9.2
      22 October 2024 at 2:55 pm

      “I've been calling for the council to get some support for quite some time, and for the mayor to get support in helping lead the council. And I think what we've seen in the minister's information is that exactly is what's going to happen."

      https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/360458871/government-appoints-crown-observer-oversee-wellington-city-council

      This is one reason why said the council was dysfunctional – at least 3 of the 4 right wing members have been backstabbing the mayor (even going to the Platform and embracing outright slander) because they are an isolated minority.

      These 4 who voted for the airport share sale and then changed their mind – would if directors of a company, be up for prosecution for negligence. IMO not fit for re-election, any of them.

      PS An observer does not help the Mayor lead, that is an untruth.

      Reply
      • Patricia Bremner 9.2.1
        22 October 2024 at 4:59 pm

        COC trying to shift the blame. Not us!!! When did lies bother this lot??

        The Mayor needs messages of support.

        Reply
  10. SPC 10
    22 October 2024 at 2:31 pm

    Interesting.

    Did the Manawanui leave dock with its back up generator non operational?

    Were the two engines both taken out, when one switchboard linked to both, failed (burnt out)?

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/10/hmnzs_manawai.html

    Reply
  11. SPC 11
    22 October 2024 at 2:44 pm

    One positive, the CoC most extreme member ACT is now committed to the permanence of a food in school programme from year 1 to 13 and being accountable for the standard of delivery.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/531524/government-unveils-rebooted-school-lunch-menu

    Reply
    • tWig 11.1
      23 October 2024 at 8:58 am

      The contractor is a multinational that provides budget crap food for NDF, prisons? and non-govt venues, according to Reddit/New Zealand. Perhaps transfer of food scheme from local community groups to Seymour's big-money o’seas mates was always the endgame.

      Reply
    • Chris 11.2
      23 October 2024 at 10:39 am

      Food in schools is a great idea if it's universal, but if restricted to low decile schools, i.e. based on need, must surely serve as an indicator of failure.

      Reply
  13. Bearded Git 13
    23 October 2024 at 11:16 am

    Momentum for a Wealth Tax is growing-there is public support for a WT in the UK and cross-party MP's are pushing for a WT of 2% on anyone who has more than 10 million quid (NZ$21m).

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/22/cross-party-mps-urge-reeves-to-impose-2-tax-on-wealth-above-10m

    Of course Hipkins is far too timid to take notice.

    Reply

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