Open mike 22/12/2023

Written By: - Date published: 8:13 am, December 22nd, 2023 - 107 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

107 comments on “Open mike 22/12/2023 ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    22 December 2023 at 8:39 am

    For those interested in playing Whamageddon you can find the rules here.

  3. Visubversa 3
    22 December 2023 at 9:08 am

    Cowardly Museum management kissing up to a homophobic and misogynistic ideology. It could have supported science and tolerance.

    "The spectre of J.K. Rowling’s belief in biological sex, her defence of gay people and her concern for women’s rights may indeed make a handful of employees at Auckland Museum feel uncomfortable and unsafe. They’ve been well-trained. The common rhetoric within trans activism is that to mention the facts of biological sex is hate speech and causes literal harm to vulnerable transgender people. It’s an inherently fragile and precarious position to decide your own safety is determined by everyone in society adopting your world view. It also reeks of authoritarianism.

    Auckland Museum is not some quaint faith-based private venture. It’s a rate-payer funded public institution with a natural history department and it has cancelled an exhibition because of its links to someone who believes in biological sex. What’s next? If the Auckland Museum wants to run an exhibition on the wonders of evolution will they withdraw because fundamentalist creationist Christians declare they are “deeply uncomfortable”? Will an exhibition that focuses on astronomy not astrology be cancelled when they receive hand-wringing emails from staff members who strongly identify as Sagittarius or Gemini and lament the deterioration of their safe space."

    https://theministryhasfallen.substack.com/p/the-terrible-truth-about-jk-rowling?r=nbtqn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

    • Ad 3.1
      22 December 2023 at 9:14 am

      They got slammed hard for one lighting show supporting Israel after the Hamas attack, so they have good reason to be gunshy.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.1
        22 December 2023 at 10:54 am

        They probably should focus on dinosaur exhibitions, Egyptphemera, and curating their exhibitions and ensure there is still a museum to interpret contentious current events in a century from now.

    • Robert Guyton 3.2
      22 December 2023 at 9:41 am

      Was the museum forced to cancel, or did they choose to cancel?

      They are able to make independent decisions?

      • weka 3.2.1
        22 December 2023 at 9:49 am

        The question is are they able to make decisions independent of the pressures of gender identity activists.

        I haven't read the Spinoff piece so don't know in this situation, but we know that there is significant coercion from gender identity activists in NZ and abroad. People lose their jobs and careers over this. Does the threat of career loss count as force?

        Did you read the subbstack article? I thought Garwhoungle explained clearly what the issues are with the museum's role and the decision they made.

        • Robert Guyton 3.2.1.1
          22 December 2023 at 10:04 am

          "The question is are they able to make decisions independent of the pressures of gender identity activists. "

          The question is are they able to make decisions independent of the pressures of any activists? For example, those who hold strong views about Te Tiriti o Waitangi?

          • weka 3.2.1.1.1
            22 December 2023 at 10:42 am

            What would be an example of a comparable exhibition about the Treaty?

            • Robert Guyton 3.2.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2023 at 10:57 am

              Some staff might object to a Treaty exhibition for the reasons the protesters objected to Te Papa's exhibition.

              • weka …
                22 December 2023 at 11:11 am

                so an exhibition on the Treaty that was inaccurate and misleading?

                • Robert Guyton …
                  22 December 2023 at 11:16 am

                  According to the protesters.

                  • Tricledrown …
                    22 December 2023 at 4:33 pm

                    Translations leave more than enough room for plenty of mistakes .Maori only had the Maori version to sign most Maori could not read or write as they relied in verbal history repeated through constant repetition .But Northern Maori had built the first schools and understood English probably better than most of the early settlers 'sailors and soldiers. They were not happy with the treaty. Since the treaty Maori have been gaslighted and bullied dehumanizing to make it easy to keep Maori on the bottom of the heap so Maori have no power keeping Maori impoverished destroying Maori culture by the imperialist vultures who have taken everything leaving Maori with intergenerational poverty.While the imperialists have had intergenerational wealth.Transactions between Maori and European started off as good but when phase 2 of colonization takes place European settlers defrauded Maori out of vast tracks of land knowing full and well how valuable that land was.Insider trading that would be called today.Maori didn't have independent legal advise on any land transaction until the 1880's only because religious leaders stepped in because they could see Maori were being fleeced another crime.

              • Belladonna …
                22 December 2023 at 11:17 am

                And some might object to a revised presentation – because it doesn't fit with their understanding of the topic. There are different understandings of the Treaty – much though the radical left might decry them.

                Someone can always object to something about an exhibition. Especially when they are designed to provoke interest, discussion and challenge perceptions.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  22 December 2023 at 11:24 am

                  It was an internal matter for the museum, wasn't it?

                  They have responsibilities to their staff that are different to those toward the general public. I think you are conflating the two groups.

                  • Belladonna …
                    22 December 2023 at 11:30 am

                    “They have responsibilities to their staff that are different to those toward the general public. I think you are conflating the two groups.”

                    Dear me, no. Staff can have a range of opinions about topics – just as the general public can.

                    To assume that all staff within an organization share your radical perspective, would be a mistake.

    • weka 3.3
      22 December 2023 at 9:46 am

      that was an excellent piece.

      • Robert Guyton 3.3.1
        22 December 2023 at 10:12 am

        I read it. It describes the " museum’s" decision to support staff who felt the exhibition would make them feel unsafe. That seems reasonable, supporting your staff that way.

        “In which Auckland Museum cancels a natural history exhibition because of associations with the author of Harry Potter.”

        In which Auckland Museum cancels a natural history exhibition because of concerns of staff.

        • weka 3.3.1.1
          22 December 2023 at 10:46 am

          if it's reasonable to base curation policy on staff needs to feel safe, does that apply to religious staff who are upset about some of the science in the museum?

          How about women staff who feel unsafe with an exhibition based on the art of the misogynistic Picasso?

          • Robert Guyton 3.3.1.1.1
            22 December 2023 at 10:53 am

            It would be up to "the museum" to decide in those instances, wouldn't it, as they did with this issue. Perhaps if staff felt a Picasso exhibition would make them feel unsafe, the museum would make the same decision. It's up to them, I suppose.

            • Belladonna 3.3.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2023 at 11:13 am

              Gosh. So if there is a staff member who is 'uncomfortable' with a display on the Treaty – it should immediately be cancelled?

              How about climate change? – there's certainly a lot of controversy about that one – and many different perspectives are likely to be held within an organization. No displays on that topic, either.

              I doubt there would be a single painting in the Auckland art gallery which *isn't* open to controversy of one kind or another. Should we shut down all of those exhibitions, then.

              Cancel culture is going to ridiculous lengths.

            • weka 3.3.1.1.1.2
              22 December 2023 at 11:26 am

              It would be up to "the museum" to decide in those instances, wouldn't it, as they did with this issue. Perhaps if staff felt a Picasso exhibition would make them feel unsafe, the museum would make the same decision. It's up to them, I suppose.

              Obviously the museum is trusted with making decisions, so yes, it is up to them. But it's not a free for all. So would you mind explaining why you think that political safety of this kind should be the deciding factor?

              • Robert Guyton …
                22 December 2023 at 11:41 am

                I don't know what all of the factors behind the museum's decision were (though I did read the long Spinoff article when it was first suggested here). It seems that commenters here are objecting to the museums decision to can the exhibition for personal political and ideological reasons, where I am arguing that it's up to the museum – my position on the rights or wrongs of Harry Potter, the beasts he finds himself amongst, JK Rowling, activists, etc. have no place in my argument.

                • weka …
                  22 December 2023 at 11:52 am

                  Thanks for clarifying, that really helps.

                • Populuxe1 …
                  22 December 2023 at 5:23 pm

                  Up to a point. As a former metropolitan museum employee you will no doubt be aware of the constant internal dialogue around public space and serving stakeholders. I'm not really a fan of museums making hard and fast decisions around who is and isn't a stakeholder in this way. The exhibition has no political bias in it, and is not spreading factual untruths, so this is basically a political move, and it's a very dangerous thing when museums start making political moves.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    22 December 2023 at 5:35 pm

                    I think they made a decision based on various factors; staff concerns, visitor comfort etc. and can be perceived as having a political aspect, depending upon one's politics.

                    All exhibitions can be perceived as having political bias.

                    Edit: “and is not spreading factual untruths” – it features un-true, invented creatures, does it not? Just wondering…

              • Robert Guyton …
                22 December 2023 at 11:48 am

                I saw this in the sidebar: time to go outside and plant something 🙂

        • Belladonna 3.3.1.2
          22 December 2023 at 10:51 am

          So the 'concerns of staff' trump the actual mission of the Museum?
          What a load of cobblers.

          There have been many occasions when staff in a public information role (libraries, museums, etc) are working in a space where they may not personally agree with a particular display, presentation or event.
          As an information professional – you suck it up, and get on with the job.

          If you have ongoing concerns about a conflict between the mission of the organization and your personal ethics – you look for another job.

          You don't impose your personal ethical beliefs on the organization.

          • Robert Guyton 3.3.1.2.1
            22 December 2023 at 10:55 am

            Does the museum have a requirement to ensure staff safety? Surely they do. Interpreting that would be up to them, I expect.

            • Belladonna 3.3.1.2.1.1
              22 December 2023 at 11:06 am

              Is the requirement to ensure perfect 'staff safety' greater than their requirement to deliver information? Surely not.

              Especially in the situation where 'staff safety' is only compromised by being confronted by a world-view which is different to their own. [We're not talking about them abseiling down from the rooftops, here]

              This is Ethics 101 in any information science qualification. Any information professional who is unable to separate their personal identity/ethics from those of the organization they work for – is in the wrong job.

              Auckland Museum will now have to figure out a way to cover any resulting holes in their budget. I do not think the Auckland Council (the funding body) will be very sympathetic to requests for additional funding – when the Museum has turned down an opportunity for what would be a highly lucrative touring exhibition. Especially in a cost-cutting environment

              • Robert Guyton …
                22 December 2023 at 11:20 am

                "Is the requirement to ensure perfect 'staff safety' greater than their requirement to deliver information? Surely not."

                Seeming, it is. The museum will have weighed the issues then made their decision, I expect.

        • David 3.3.1.3
          22 December 2023 at 11:10 am

          From the link:

          "The decision was ultimately based on the views of a small group of staff members who declared they were “deeply uncomfortable” with the exhibition because of the associations with Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling. "

          A small group of staff being 'deeply uncomfortable' is hardly a reason to cancel the event.

          • Robert Guyton 3.3.1.3.1
            22 December 2023 at 11:15 am

            The museum thought otherwise. Being on the spot and in full receipt of the details as I suppose they were, I guess we should credit them with the responsibility to decide fairly.

            • David 3.3.1.3.1.1
              22 December 2023 at 11:23 am

              I am not so generous, Robert. I tend to agree with the author of the linked article:

              "The spectre of J.K. Rowling’s belief in biological sex, her defence of gay people and her concern for women’s rights may indeed make a handful of employees at Auckland Museum feel uncomfortable and unsafe. They’ve been well-trained. The common rhetoric within trans activism is that to mention the facts of biological sex is hate speech and causes literal harm to vulnerable transgender people. It’s an inherently fragile and precarious position to decide your own safety is determined by everyone in society adopting your world view. It also reeks of authoritarianism."

            • Francesca 3.3.1.3.1.2
              22 December 2023 at 12:13 pm

              So you think the museum cancelled the show because of a high minded concern for the feelings of 2 or 3 staff members?

              Really Robert .I didn't think you would be so naive

              They cancelled the show out of fear of rowdy activists picketing and compromising the safety of museum goers /staff is my feeling.

              And they were afraid of a facebook lynch mob

              • Robert Guyton …
                22 December 2023 at 12:25 pm

                You reckon.

                "So you think…" is often the prelude misrepresenting the thoughts of another.

                Museums often quietly welcome protest – it raises the profile of certain exhibitions. I reckon you're speculating. As we all are 🙂

                *disclaimer – I worked in a city museum for 2 years.

                • francesca …
                  22 December 2023 at 1:31 pm

                  Question mark there you may have missed

                  Are you saying that the museum's duty is first to avoid discomfort of a very small minority of staff members before addressing the benefit of the public ?

                  Is that what museums are for in this new age where biological sex can be "changed" at will

                  Tell that to the plants

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    22 December 2023 at 1:40 pm

                    "Are you saying that the museum's duty is first to avoid discomfort of a very small minority of staff members before addressing the benefit of the public ?"

                    No. I'm saying that the details of why the museum chose to do what they chose to do is known best to them; speculation is fun, but faulted.

                    "Is that what museums are for in this new age where biological sex can be "changed" at will"

                    I don't understand that sentence at all, sorry.

                    I've planted gobo and toona so far. Casana and Japanese aralia next!

                    • francesca …
                      22 December 2023 at 2:24 pm

                      The many fraught emails that went to and from between museum officials laid out their fears of public backlash

                      As to the second paragraph you say you don't understand

                      maybe I can rephrase

                      We live in a post modern age where words can stand in place of physical realities.

                      For instance "someone born male can be a woman just by declaring it"

                      My long experience with the natural world does not reflect this

                      My long experience with humans divorced from the natural world and increasingly engaged with an unreal cyber world. is not hugely surprised but somewhat dismayed by that kind of thinking

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      22 December 2023 at 4:02 pm

                      Fear of public back-lash is a reasonable consideration for the museum to entertain. It would be unreasonable to expect them not to take it into account.

                      As to the second…

                      Your example, "someone born…" doesn't interest me much and isn't part of my thinking about why a museum might reject an exhibition.

                      Your comment, "My long experience…" could apply to people holding the opposite view to yours, I imagine.

                      I happen to strongly agree with you regarding the value of connection with, and especially close observation of, the "natural world", but I'm not sure about the perils of "engaging with an unreal cyber world.", as we are doing here. I like pushing the envelope through reading/watching material from the cyber world, safe-ish in the knowledge and confidence that I have gleaned from my time spent watching seeds sprout, fish feed, clouds roil and birds warble. The question of "what is natural" must surely be the topic a discussion somewhere and would no doubt be convoluted and heated 🙂

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    22 December 2023 at 3:42 pm

                    We live in a post modern age where words can stand in place of physical realities.

                    For instance "someone born male can be a woman just by declaring it"

                    Who said that, and is the belief reality-based, i.e. the "someone born male can be a woman" bit, and/or the "just by declaring it" bit?

                    Imho, "someone born male" can be feminine, but not female, and there’s an application process (forms/fees) to change one's 'sex-marker' and/or ‘gender’.

                    https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/changing-your-gender/

                    I acknowledge the flood of problems in the 6 months since a new self-ID process replaced the Family Court process. Maybe our new govt will address 'the issue' in due course – could be right up their alley.

                    • SPC …
                      22 December 2023 at 3:54 pm

                      It's interesting that the new hydra headed confabulation is doing nothing about self ID. I guess that is because National and ACT supported it and NZ First did not make doing anything about that an important coalition condition.

                      Nothing so far about “sex based identity facilities in public buildings” from the coalition either.

                    • Francesca …
                      22 December 2023 at 5:09 pm

                      I agree with you that gender can be expressed within a very wide spectrum and I applaud it .

                      I welcome difference.

                      It's when it becomes an imperative to accept nonsense that men can become women by dint of will or surgery or other social interventions that I balk.

                      JK Rowling has attracted a huge amount of hate for standing up to those who declare its possible to change

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      22 December 2023 at 5:29 pm

                      "JK Rowling has attracted a huge amount of hate for standing up to those who declare its possible to change"

                      Why did she "stand up to" those who believe "it's possible to change"?

                      Why do you feel antagonistic towards people who don't support her "standing up to" those folk, many of whom are New Zealanders.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    22 December 2023 at 6:37 pm

                    JK Rowling has attracted a huge amount of hate for standing up to those who declare its possible to change

                    Huge amount of hate & support, generating heat – trans issues polarise.

                    https://www.transgendertrend.com/support-j-k-rowling/

                    https://www.glamour.com/story/a-complete-breakdown-of-the-jk-rowling-transgender-comments-controversy

                    Ideally, people should be free (and supported) to be themselves, as long as they're not not harming others, and shouldn't feel sad about who they (feel they) are. But feeling sad is part of the human condition.

                    Learning how to properly identify our negative emotions is a crucial but often overlooked step toward working through them.

                    It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      22 December 2023 at 6:50 pm

                      Sorry – got tied up in Xmas not nots smiley

                      A pair of Hop-a-long boots and a pistol that shoots
                      Is the wish of Barney and Ben
                      Dolls that will talk and will go for a walk
                      Is the hope of Janice and Jen
                      And Mom and Dad can hardly wait for school to start again

        • Terry 3.3.1.4
          22 December 2023 at 6:10 pm

          How could staff at a museum possibility feel unsafe due to an exhibition?

          Being exposed to art, literature, or any other type of display at a museum or art gallery can in no way cause harm to employees.

          However I do understand that some individuals may become upset when exposed to ideas that do not conform to their world view. In this instance, it is not a safety issue. To suggest it is makes a mockery of "health and safety" in the workplace. Just ask any builder, construction worker or engineer who actually works in a hazardous environment.

          One would expect that employees who work in a museum, art gallery, library, or any place that may have displays, or exhibitions which can be challenging etc, would be resilient enough the cope without "feeling unsafe". It's part of the job.

          • Robert Guyton 3.3.1.4.1
            22 December 2023 at 8:40 pm

            "How could staff at a museum possibility feel unsafe due to an exhibition?"

            I guess you'd have to ask them, or the managers they approached with their concerns.

            "Being exposed to art, literature, or any other type of display at a museum or art gallery can in no way cause harm to employees."

            So, anything goes, so long as it's art, no matter who works there? I can think of plenty of themes that would traumatise some people, especially those who carry trauma from experience – no thought to be given to their wellbeing, do ya reckon?

            We tough-as blog-commenters should just tell those softies to harden-up!

            • Terry 3.3.1.4.1.1
              22 December 2023 at 11:11 pm

              No Robert, they are not actually unsafe.

              It is inconceivable that someone who’s career is working in museums or art galleries would be, or would feel unsafe from an exhibition.

              They might feel uncomfortable with an exhibition, but that’s why they do the job.

              Unless of course they have some ideological reason to shut something down. This would go against any museum or art gallery’s core reason for existing. Therefore again, the type of person who would feel unsafe with an exhibit in a museum or art gallery, would not pursue a career in a museum or art gallery

              • Robert Guyton …
                23 December 2023 at 6:49 am

                "the type of person who would feel unsafe with an exhibit in a museum or art gallery, would not pursue a career in a museum or art gallery"

                Art galleries attract sensitive people, you must be able to see that. Often, those people have liberal, across the spectrum world-views, with regards politics, gender, how they dress, what they watch and listen to. Naturally, they can be "tender" when it comes to some issues.

                I think some folk here are irritated because some people of the sort I've described, succeeded in an action they took, based upon their ideology. They managed to "defeat someone" who is admired by some folk here and they find that annoying. Is that the case with you, Terry?

    • mikesh 3.4
      22 December 2023 at 10:19 am

      It seems rather odd to characterize J K Rowling, or anyone for that matter, as someone who "believes in" biological sex. Surely if no-one "believed in" biological sex the human race would come to an end.

      • weka 3.4.1
        22 December 2023 at 10:48 am

        there are people who believe that sex isn't binary and that people can literally change biological sex.

        When GC people say they believe in biology, what is meant is that they adhere to the science that has demonstrated that humans reproduce by two sexes (only), and that these sexes cannot be changed.

        So, yes, not believing in sex is a nonsense, but where we are.

    • SPC 3.5
      22 December 2023 at 1:54 pm

      Staff feelings – Why are staff at TVNZ able to cope with Harry Potter films being shown? Or those of news media with reports mentioning JKR by name?

      Or is it staff or building safety – protests and graffiti? If so, the protestors veto.

      The censorship issue

      The exhibit harms no one, but the precedent of suppressing creative work does.

      The idea that a group of people is harmed, if someone is not blacklisted/boycotted because of their opinions is frankly a McCarthyist reprise.

      On the merits, the censorship of someones works based on disapproval of their political position on a matter unrelated to the work is wrong. And the case for censorship of someones works because of disapproval of the political content ranges from somewhat credible to negligible.

      • Populuxe1 3.5.1
        22 December 2023 at 4:11 pm

        My personal feeling is that while J K Rowling has become quite loathsome with her doubling down on being all chummy with outright fascists on social media, banning a harmless exhibition is the worst kind of superficial virtue signaling.

        • SPC 3.5.1.1
          22 December 2023 at 4:41 pm

          It's an interesting position to be in – JK Rowling's on this issue. I have no problem with women's safety advocacy.

          However people like Angela Dworkin, not a tame feminist, was very wary of feminists working with the conservative political right. As some like Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshall do.

          What happens, when two sides entrench themselves in positions for a long cold war, is that their own idealism is compromised in the struggle – they develop a gang mentality. And so they support others on their side and get tarnished by association.

          A local example, in 1983, Douglas posed New Zealand adopting market economics and becoming a free trade based economy and got acceptance from Lange as his Finance Minister. He got support from the political right for this and became an applause junkie going further and further to the right to get his fix.To the point Lange lost confidence in him.

          That JK Rowling gets support from the right is unsurprising and not her fault – she does not support the political right because of this. But she is being dragged into mutual support with others who call for the annihilation of the feminist "gender" tolerant left. When she would probably see herself as feminist and supportive of the political left. The hard-liners of the cause are prepared to use the political right as partners, but I suspect that Dworkin will be proven right about that tactic being a dangerous one (Dworkin was opposed to prostitution and pornography, just like K-J K-M by the way).

          https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

          • Populuxe1 3.5.1.1.1
            22 December 2023 at 5:12 pm

            It's very much her fault if she's going to align herself with people like Matt Walsh and Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshall, liking their posts, promoting their work.

            • SPC 3.5.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2023 at 5:23 pm

              I do not know about her connections to Walsh.

              Matt Walsh is known for being anti LBG, and works for Ben Shapiro former editor in chief of Breitbart News.

              https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1737970157614514200

              • Populuxe1 …
                22 December 2023 at 5:28 pm

                https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1546141988139016194?s=20
                This tweet provoked rather a lot of consternation on those grounds. Some might say that when one is a very public figure, one should take the time to know who one is platforming.

                • SPC …
                  22 December 2023 at 5:43 pm

                  Well she did say his use of the word “comment” indicated some ignorance (an inaccurate euphemism) and he should back off.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    22 December 2023 at 7:22 pm

                    Ah, but it was followed by this little outburst of mutual admiration

                    • SPC …
                      22 December 2023 at 7:38 pm

                      The criticism continued

                      but I reserve my ire for them rather than shouting 'coward' at individual women.

                      Sure she did agree with criticism he made about some women's groups. That is because many embraced the "gender" cause, as one of progressive solidarity with others.

                • weka …
                  22 December 2023 at 7:06 pm

                  In that tweet, JKR is telling Walsh to shut the fuck up. A very large follower account telling someone to shut the fuck up isn't platforming them. She's using her power to push back at Walsh blaming feminists for gender identity ideology and there are solid reasons to do so. She's also running interference for other feminists, again a good use of her power. And, she’s making a strong political point about the nature of violent misogyny directed at women who speak up about GC issues, something that the left used to help women with once upon a time.

                  Implying she didn't know who Walsh is is an example of what I've been talking about. People in this debate who are generally clueless about large aspects of what is going on because they bought into the TRA/liberal PR that there are only two sides: virtuous pro-trans people and evil anti-trans right wingers. JKR is neither of those. And of course she knew who Walsh is.

                  What was going on in that tweet is that Walsh was a late comer to the gender/sex wars, and because he's an ultra conservative, misogynistic, women in the kitchen, dickhead, who happens to be very good at what he does with social media, he colonised the GC movement, and now blames women for whatever he can. As part of his conservative agenda.

                  Walsh laying down blame, feminists responding and setting the record straight, is an ongoing feature of the war. Which you would know if you actually listened to what GCFs are saying.

                  Feminists have been debating about how to use material from Walsh for ages. In this case, that wasn't even what was happening, JKR was simply calling out his lies.

                    • weka …
                      22 December 2023 at 7:39 pm

                      what she says in that tweet,

                      And your film did a good job exposing the incoherence of gender identity theory and some of the harms it's done. Many institutions I used to admire have uncritically embraced this dogma, but I reserve my ire for them rather than shouting 'coward' at individual women.

                      1. She expresses her opinion about his film (one I share, he did do a good job of exposing the incoherence of GI and its harms).

                      2. she reiterates her point that it's not women that are to blame for the rise of GI.

                      That's a large follower feminist account, speaking publicly to a large follower ultra conservative account, so that people can see the counter argument.

                      I can't speak to her motivations, but having watched her strategy for a number of years, she is smart. How I read this is that it's better here with Walsh to engage in an evenhanded way than go all angry feminist on him.

                      She doesn't give a shit about liberal brownie points, this is another thing the left is missing. There's a liberation that comes for women when they stop caring about losing favour. Once it goes past a certain point, those feminists are much freer to work in more effective ways.

          • Belladonna 3.5.1.1.2
            22 December 2023 at 9:13 pm

            The other group which want to ban Rowling and all her works, are the fundamentalist Christians (promotion of 'witchcraft')

            Are the far left trans-positive campaigners comfortable with those bedfellows?

        • Visubversa 3.5.1.2
          22 December 2023 at 4:45 pm

          Proof is required for that sort of statement.

      • Robert Guyton 3.5.2
        22 December 2023 at 4:20 pm

        Exhibitions are not automatically selected by museums; a board most likely, will assess and decide. They have discretion to do as they please, mostly. Internal issues can have some influence over final decisions. In this instance, they (probably) did.

        TVNZ staff won't have to experience the (ephemeral) films over a long period of time; they may choose not to watch them. Museum staff are more likely to be personally exposed to a prolonged, high-profile exhibition. The situations are not equivalent.

  4. Robert Guyton 4
    22 December 2023 at 10:01 am

    An encouraging read…

    Buying the farm in a burning world

    “We’re in this process of dreaming a farm back into being in the hinterlands of the ruined provincial capital in our remote corner of the crumbling empire.”

    “There are no profane places, only sacred and desecrated places. And I wonder what it will take and what it could mean to restore, to reconsecrate, this place?”

    https://dark-mountain.net/buying-the-farm-in-a-burning-world/

  5. Descendant Of Smith 5
    22 December 2023 at 12:34 pm

    As I've noted many times the travesty of not implementing WEAG when there was a collective expert, policy, community and public support was abysmal. Helen Clark blew the opportunity to help the most vulnerable by only helping those on NZS and so did Jacinda by failing to follow through.

    Still Labour are the original architects in NZ of this neo-liberal shit-storm so we should not be surprised.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  6. Kat 6
    22 December 2023 at 1:21 pm

    Democracy…..ok…. lets see how Winston who is pro rail and the other two heads, who are pro trucking in the monster that is the current govt, avoid going off the rails…

    NZFirst policy on rail: https://www.nzfirst.nz/2023_policies

    • Further investigate the re-opening of the Wairoa to Gisborne rail line
    • Build the Marsden spur linking Northport to the Northland rail-line
    • Complete a full rebuild and improvements to the Christchurch-Picton rail corridor

    I see a very strained relationship developing…….

    And…….Josie Pagani now cheerleader for the trucking industry……..

    "Instead of spending billions on new ferries capable of carrying trains, stick with moving freight by truck, and put the money towards other priorities………. argues Josie Pagani.

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350135936/you-think-2023-went-rails-wait-until-you-see-2024?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff

    There will be a need for either a truck or train load of popcorn in 2024………Sadly there are those among us who will need life lines………….

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • SPC 6.1
      22 December 2023 at 6:04 pm

      Trains boats and planes. I recall an airport being an issue in 1998.

      I have seen many defences for having ferries with trains on them. It is a good idea if money is no object. The ferries earn revenue of $150 million a year. It would take 20 years for revenue to cover the $3 billion cost of the upgrade. At a profit of around $15m a year, it would take 200 years.

      Shift freight by trucks. The $3b saved could then be spent on other Christmas goodies, like crumbling roads and hospitals.

      New roads are not fixes to existing ones crumbling because of trucks. The new roads do not last 50 years like the Kiwi Rail plan infrastructure does. New roads do not reduce carbon use.

    • Kat 6.2
      22 December 2023 at 8:45 pm

      Well dear moderator I beg to differ…it was on topic and far from irrelevant…..perhaps you should look at the words and the context in relation to quote: "The coalition government has hijacked the democratic process for its own partisan and nefarious agenda….."

      Perhaps it was mentioning Josie Pagani….smiley

      But hey, no big deal…Merry Christmas to all….

      • Incognito 6.2.1
        22 December 2023 at 8:57 pm

        On balance, I felt, as the Author, that the comment was more suited for OM and the reply comment by SPC confirmed this (this had already been submitted when I moved the whole thread). It had nothing to do with JP laugh

        No big deal and no harm done.

  7. Tricledrown 7
    22 December 2023 at 1:30 pm

    Nicola Willy latest gaffe says its the size of the sausage not what you do with it was she replying to Hipkins gaffe or gushing over her sausage shaped leader

    • SPC 7.1
      22 December 2023 at 1:58 pm

      She's playing the goofy real person card. All while delivering increased inequality and deprivation.

      • Robert Guyton 7.1.1
        22 December 2023 at 4:07 pm

        My thoughts also, SPC – scripted "gaffe" – she can't be a BSD, but she can allude to them.

  8. SPC 8
    22 December 2023 at 2:45 pm

    Some positive developments at last …

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/301031134/health-officials-boost-security-in-eds-over-summer-to-help-keep-hospitals-safe

    PS I'd add a notice in these areas stating that some security have access to tasers/pepper spray.

  9. SPC 9
    22 December 2023 at 2:59 pm

    World News : What is really going on now.

    The PA and the political wing of Hamas are in talks about Hamas coming under the PLO umbrella and the return of the PA to Gaza.

    This is opposed by the military wing of Hamas.

    So when Hamas says no more release of hostages until the IDF action ends (withdrawal from Gaza) this has two related meanings.

    1. The military wing of Hamas does not have all the hostages and those groups that have some are not part of the future of the planned Gaza.
    2. The defeat of the military wing of Hamas is required before Israel would accept the PA back in Gaza.

    Essentially for this to occur Israel has to defeat the military wing of Hamas in the south as well, as in the north, or for someone to take the military forces in Gaza (an escape route).

    The cynic would suggest a ship takes them to Libya. So they can form a new refugee camp, or get hired into team Russia or team Turkey in their civil war.

  10. SPC 10
    22 December 2023 at 3:35 pm

    Meanwhile in white race nation news, revivalism has arrived down under.

    The defeat of One Voice in Oz and indigenous peoples rights in New Zealand (except for Tuhoe nation and maybe Waipounamu, where Nga Tahu co-govern with Queenstown and farmers).

    The symbolism of the bonfire is well known at Ephesus and the USA – Indians and New World settlers burnt to the ground each others settlements. And later in the American south after the end of slavery.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/22/the-year-that-began-and-ended-with-labour-policy-bonfires/

  11. SPC 11
    22 December 2023 at 3:50 pm

    The Government is seeking independent advice on KiwiRail's inter-island ferry service, after refusing to commit another $1.47 billion to replace three of its ageing ferries.

    It has announced setting up an expert advisory group to provide independent assurance on how to proceed with the ferry service.

    The Ministry of Transport, supported by Treasury, is also being tasked with assessing the long-term requirements for a resilient connection across Cook Strait.

    In a statement, Finance Minister Nicola Willis and State-Owned Enterprises Minister Paul Goldsmith said the group's membership would be finalised in the New Year, after the plug was pulled on an earlier project to build two large new ferries and associated port infrastructure.

    "The group will help to ensure that there are robust plans in place to support safe, resilient and reliable services in the coming years. The establishment of the group also recognises that the Crown has interests that may be wider than KiwiRail's commercial interests, Willis said.

    "We share a determination to ensure ongoing reliable ferry services and will be engaging with them as we develop a solution that works better for all those with an interest in the inter-island ferry service.

    She means the trucking industry influence within the National Party.

    Goldsmith said the Government needed to ensure any replacement of the ferries was affordable, "at a time when there are many pressures on government spending".

    So even if there is a wider New Zealand interest in the capacity to move rail goods over the Cook Straight, the government will say they will not deliver – unless there is some external capital source providing a partner to Kiwi Rail in the InterIslander service or the whole business.

    The two new ferries would have doubled the passenger and vehicle capacity, and tripled rail capacity, while reducing the service's carbon footprint by about 40% in the short term.

    So if New Zealand's overall interest is placed first – it's all in favour of Kiwi Rail's plan, improved speed of goods movement, allows for increased volume and reduces the carbon footprint.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/22/interislander-ferry-govt-to-set-up-expert-advisory-group/

    • bwaghorn 11.1
      22 December 2023 at 5:00 pm

      It's going to be interesting to add up what's been spent already on the cancelled ferries, what it'll cost to bracket the existing contracts , what the review costs and what willis' plan b costs , bet it'll be close to labours plan with a crappy outcome.

      • SPC 11.1.1
        22 December 2023 at 6:03 pm

        The land of excuses. You cannot give foreign aid because there is poverty at home. Poverty at home, is no excuse not to give the hard working middle class a tax cut, end the bright-line test on investors, or allow debt cost to reduce tax on rent income. And here is a new one …

        Magical Christmas thinking about avoiding choices was on full display in this week's news about the Interislander ferries

        I have seen many defences for having ferries with trains on them. It is a good idea if money is no object. The ferries earn revenue of $150 million a year. It would take 20 years for revenue to cover the $3 billion cost of the upgrade. At a profit of around $15m a year, it would take 200 years.

        Shift freight by trucks. The $3b saved could then be spent on other Christmas goodies, like crumbling roads and hospitals.

        New roads are not fixes to existing ones crumbling because of trucks. The new roads do not last 50 years like the Kiwi Rail plan infrastructure does. New roads do not reduce carbon use.

        https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350135936/you-think-2023-went-rails-wait-until-you-see-2024?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff

  12. Incognito 12
    22 December 2023 at 5:28 pm

    Three strikes and you’re out. This simplistic rule is heavily promoted by ACT and made it into the coalition agreement under the header “Restoring Law and Order and Personal Responsibility” yet, ironically, ACT doesn’t abide by it. (NB the National-Act Agreement shows ACT’s pathological obsession with anything ‘regulation’)

    As before, ACT’s renewed attempt at “meta-regulation” comes under heavy criticism from Jane Kelsey.

    https://theconversation.com/acts-attempt-at-regulatory-reform-in-nz-has-failed-3-times-already-whats-different-now-220140

  13. joe90 13
    22 December 2023 at 5:42 pm

    We can use our tax cut to pay those rising rates.

    /

    @JonoMilne

    At @NewsroomNZ, I've obtained a letter from Local Govt Minister Simeon Brown, telling councils he’ll relax consultation/audit requirements so they can lock in their rates plans. Some propose rates hikes as high as 33% because of the Three Waters repeal.

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/21/three-waters-repeal-forces-councils-to-hike-rates-by-a-third/

    https://twitter.com/JonoMilne/status/1737648009268351137

  14. Cricklewood 14
    22 December 2023 at 6:13 pm

    So, here's something that perhaps sums up and perhaps explains why Labour lost.

    A govt dept (customs) was furnished with plug in hybrids to replace older vehicles early in the year as part of emmisions reductions. So far so good right… excepting that no charging infrastructure in the building the vehicles are parked was provided so 9 months later and 40k on the odometer the charging cables are still in the packaging and they've been running on petrol the whole time.

    Very depressing.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  15. Pat 15
    22 December 2023 at 7:18 pm

    "Martin Foo, an analyst at S&P Global Ratings, say the extension of the statutory deadline should provide welcome breathing space for councils that need to go back to the drawing board now that the incoming government has confirmed the repeal of water services legislation.

    On whether the new “financially separate council-owned organisation” would be considered by lenders to be distinct from its council owners, he says the devil is in the detail.

    The rating agency would need to assess whether financial separation is genuinely achieved, not just in an accounting sense but from a credit rating angle too. Foo says there’s still something of a disconnect between the letter’s idea of “local decision-making” and financial separation. “It is not easy to disentangle political control from financial control.”

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/21/three-waters-repeal-forces-councils-to-hike-rates-by-a-third/

    It is worth noting that the recently announced rates increases were made on the basis of no provision of water, waste water and stormwater services by councils…..they were to be charged separately.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

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