Open Mike 24/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 24th, 2017 - 97 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

97 comments on “Open Mike 24/11/2017 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ed 1
    24 November 2017 at 7:07 am

    Two things about the America’s CUP.

    1. Team New Zealand sounds like a spoilt brat who will take his toys to another sandpit if he doesn’t get his way.

    2. For how much longer are New Zealanders going to fall for the lie of trickledown? Mike Hosking and his fellow medi liars would have us believe this. Don’t.

    • Alan 1.2
      24 November 2017 at 9:27 am

      You don’t live in Auckland do you Ed?
      You have not witnessed first hand the swarm of activity that occurs for several years prior to and then during the cup.
      The marine industry, hospitality, tourism, retail etc. benefit massively from this event.

      • tracey 1.2.1
        24 November 2017 at 9:32 am

        The problem is Alan that these big accounting firms that cost potential benefits prior to a sporting event almost always over state it. It is enormously difficult to quantify but easy to over state.

        • Macro 1.2.1.1
          24 November 2017 at 2:00 pm

          Exactly – take for instance the Super V8 race that was initially proposed for Auckland City (Banks was Mayor at the time and all for it!) – and where the residents protested sufficiently, and were able to show that the so called cost benefit analysis of the organisers was just plain hype and were able to shut it down. The race organisers then convinced Hamilton as to its mavellousness, and the race was run there – until the true costs of running it and the meager benefits were so poor that the Council eventually said enough is enough! More fool Hamilton.

      • Carolyn_nth 1.2.2
        24 November 2017 at 9:42 am

        Doesn’t Auckland have enough swarming activity already?- see LPrent – on Auckland catching up.

      • lprent 1.2.3
        24 November 2017 at 1:46 pm

        The marine industry, hospitality, tourism, retail etc. benefit massively from this event.

        It is a pity that the beneficiaries of such activities don’t pay for it eh?

        It causes me additional traffic jams, a strong need to avoid the idiots downtown, an inability to get accommodation for people coming here for business, and an effective rise in rates or diminished services before the event to pay for all of the crap that the sailors hold their hand out for.

        Perhaps it’d be worth it if the hospitality industry went off and paid an additional tax for discombobulating the entire rest of the residents of Auckland.

        But that pack of bastards really don’t like even a minor tax to cover the effects that their freeloading industry cost the rest of us.

        Basically you are a fool. One who doesn’t appear to live in Auckland or is one of the freeloading parasites

        • Macro 1.2.3.1
          24 November 2017 at 2:07 pm

          This so correct – I wonder if the organisers of the resistance to the Super V8 Race are still around? They were able to show the flimsy analysis of the cost-benefits to Auckland were so much hype that the council over-turned Bank’s wish to run the race.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.3.2
          24 November 2017 at 2:24 pm

          Perhaps it’d be worth it if the hospitality industry went off and paid an additional tax for discombobulating the entire rest of the residents of Auckland.

          But that pack of bastards really don’t like even a minor tax to cover the effects that their freeloading industry cost the rest of us.

          Yes, for such supporters of user pays they seem rather recalcitrant when being asked to pay for their usage.

        • savenz 1.2.3.3
          24 November 2017 at 3:23 pm

          @Iprent

          “It is a pity that the beneficiaries of such activities don’t pay for it eh?”

          exactly!

      • AB 1.2.4
        24 November 2017 at 2:31 pm

        Yep – some people will benefit, the majority will see no benefit and some will be harmed. Those harmed would be businesses whose customers (shoppers, diners) are dragged away from other parts of the city down to the waterfront.
        So to say it is good for Auckland is a misconception – because (to steal from Margaret Thatcher) there is no such thing as ‘Auckland’.

      • Ed 1.2.5
        24 November 2017 at 8:37 pm

        Socialism for the rich, eh?
        Trickldown is a lie.
        But you knew that……

    • tracey 1.3
      24 November 2017 at 9:31 am

      It is The Hobbit Syndrome

    • james 1.4
      24 November 2017 at 9:40 am

      1. Team New Zealand sounds like a spoilt brat who will take his toys to another sandpit if he doesn’t get his way.

      Thats just a bullshit:

      “However, Team NZ chief operations officer Kevin Shoebridge told the Herald even though their preferred option would not happen, they would be working with the options available and there would be no moves to take the America’s Cup away from the city”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11947323

    • CLEANGREEN 1.5
      24 November 2017 at 4:02 pm

      HC 300% well said Ed,

      “Team them selves” more like.

      God they want us to stroke their vain arses with gold and glitter eh!!!!!!

      Bugger off Team NZ!!!

      We cant afford Auckland getting all the ‘infrustructure’ public funding already! but now these rich bitches want our last remaining blood!!!!

      Time to call it quits with the rich set games they are playing.j

    • Colonial Viper 2.1
      24 November 2017 at 8:41 am

      Don’t worry about it. At the moment Dunedin households are being delivered around 40 tonnes of Christmas junk mail a week into letter boxes. This might actually increase closer to Christmas.

      And I suppose that means Auckland is distributing about 500 tonnes of junk mail a week.

      Bear in mind the majority of this goes straight into the garbage without even being read for one nanosecond.

      You can’t stop the machine, and 40 years of moaning about it since the Club of Rome has done nothing but waste time and emotional effort.

      • ianmac 2.1.1
        24 November 2017 at 9:40 am

        During the last election I delivered a few hundred flyers to letter boxes. I was surprised at the number with NO JUNK MAIL HERE signs. (I put them in anyway.) My estimate is that two thirds of letter boxes rejected junk mail. Seems to be more tucked inside newspapers though.

        • Anne 2.1.1.1
          24 November 2017 at 10:18 am

          Hi ianmac. Surprised you weren’t given the heads up on the legal situation here.
          The only letter boxes where you can’t – by law – deliver material are those with the instruction ” Addressed Mail Only” on them.

          • lprent 2.1.1.1.1
            24 November 2017 at 1:37 pm

            The only letter boxes where you can’t – by law – deliver material are those with the instruction ” Addressed Mail Only” on them.

            Mailboxes like mine which are in the apartment lobby which requires a card to get into. The PO has a card to do it, so the ONLY junk mail we get now comes via the mail person. We moved the mailboxes inside after someone broke into most of the 60 mailboxes – presumably looking for checks when they were still a thing – wrecking most of them. The joy of getting rid of 90% of the junk mail was immense.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2
          24 November 2017 at 10:19 am

          Similarly a former Labour Party activist mate of mine simplify classifies election flyers as “democracy participation information sheets” not junk mail, and slides them right in 😀

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.2.1
            24 November 2017 at 10:37 am

            That’s standard practice.

            …all letterboxes regardless of whether they have signs asking for no junk mail, circulars or addressed mail only, can receive election material two months before the election until the day before polling day. This aligns with the Electoral Act.

            Interesting to learn that ‘addressed mail only’ is no barrier: the times I’ve delivered election material we were told to leave those ones alone.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2.1.1
              24 November 2017 at 11:10 am

              And I suspect delivering it probably counts against the party so I would suggest that the volunteers don’t do that.

              • Heather Grimwood …
                24 November 2017 at 3:33 pm

                to DTB at 2.1.1.2.1.1.: Don’t think would lose votes as no complainer would be voting for the party complained about anyway. The complaining is just to involve nuisance waste of time for those delivering or their electorate office.

            • Anne 2.1.1.2.1.2
              24 November 2017 at 2:06 pm

              Interesting to learn that ‘addressed mail only’ is no barrier:

              We were told it is unlawful to deliver non-addressed material into an “addressed mail only” letter box. Political parties and other organisations get around it by acquiring addresses from public lists eg. electoral roll, and either posting or delivering on foot. Either way its more expensive and delivering targeted mail is a nightmare.

              Unless there’s been a law change in the last few years.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2
        24 November 2017 at 11:12 am

        Yep, about time we defined the advertising that comes in our mailboxes as spam and ban it. It’s simply a waste of resources for minimal benefit.

        • ianmac 2.1.2.1
          24 November 2017 at 11:44 am

          I was prepared to defend my postings should anyone complain, by apologising for not “noticing” the sign. And our local MP had just 2 phone calls complaining, from the whole Electorate.
          Actually I have doubts anyway that the flyers help anyone except the employees of printers.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1.1
            24 November 2017 at 12:17 pm

            http://marketresearchworld.net/content/view/1617/74/

            “Very few dissatisfied customers complain, making this a meaningless measure of customer satisfaction.”

            Very few customers will complain directly to you, but that does not mean that they won’t complain to other people. In fact in reality it’s quite the opposite! Let’s think back to the restaurant example I gave at the beginning of this article. Realistically, how many people would you tell if you thought a restaurant was offering bad food and service?

      • happynz 2.1.3
        24 November 2017 at 7:49 pm

        My wife (English is her second, third, or fourth language depending on how one categorises dialects) loves the junk mail. It helped her with handy phrases like Blowout Sale! and Discount Days.

        That’s one of the very few positives to junk mail.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.3.1
          24 November 2017 at 8:32 pm

          Hahaha true, reminds me of the junkyard Transformer robot from the old 90s cartoon movie who only talked in TV ad speak because that’s how he learnt his English

          https://youtu.be/XrMbkbTPrPA?t=208

        • beatie 2.1.3.2
          25 November 2017 at 3:51 pm

          Yes! Many years ago when I was teaching immigrant women English, I would use supermarket junk mail. It had pictures and was relevant to their need to shop for food.

  3. Ad 3
    24 November 2017 at 8:31 am

    Is anyone going to do a proper post on the America’s Cup facilities ?

    It’s a classic environment v economic benefit v social utility v public subsidy v filthy rich capitalists v good for Auckland v binge-purge-cycle v did-we-learn-anything-last-time …. kind of debate.

    Worth about $200m in capex from us ratepayers and taxpayers.

    • David Mac 3.1
      24 November 2017 at 10:38 am

      A good thing about the America Cup development is those building monuments on other peoples’ coin will move their aspirations from a billion dollar waterfront stadium for a year or two.

      I guess a successful Cup event and Aucklanders warming to the precinct all over again will see a renewed stadium push. Fortunately most Aucklanders that own their homes freehold are millionaires, they’re loaded.

  4. Colonial Viper 4
    24 November 2017 at 8:55 am

    It seems like the Democratic Party hierarchy has decided once and for all to dump the Clintons and make them politically radioactive.

    Obama Cabinet member/HHS Sec Kathleen Sebelius says women who came forward about Bill Clinton were systematically re-victimised by the Clintons

    This was in a CNN interview between former Obama chief advisor and campaign manager David Axelrod, and Sebelius.

    These Axelrod and Sebelius are well connected Democratic Party insiders and heavy hitters.

    “Not only did people look the other way, but they went after the women who came forward and accused him,” Sebelius stunningly detailed. Keep in mind this is a fact that the alternative media has reported on literally hundreds and hundreds of times while being attacked as right-wing conspiracy theorists for doing so.
     
    “And so it doubled down on not only bad behavior but abusive behavior. And then people attacked the victims,” Sebelius continued.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-23/they-went-after-women-who-came-forward-former-obama-hhs-secretary-exposes-clintons

    • tracey 4.1
      24 November 2017 at 9:33 am

      About time.

    • Cemetery Jones 4.2
      24 November 2017 at 11:14 am

      Damn you beat me to posting it. What’s that they said about not more to come on this? Brazile’s intervention was just the start. Now that the Chicago camp is making a move, momentum will continue to build.

    • McFlock 4.3
      24 November 2017 at 1:13 pm

      It’s actually a really interesting interview. You should listen to it.

      I also can’t help thinking that if the republicans hadn’t made up so many stories about bill clinton, the real one would have stood out. Not that it would have changed much in the 1990s.

      • Cemetery Jones 4.3.1
        24 November 2017 at 1:55 pm

        Having recently been listening to a marathon run of Christopher Hitchens interviews from the C-Span 90s period, I’d have to say you’re right about the second part of that – there really was no alternative for the electorate to seriously consider. I mean, Bob fucking Dole? Even for the Republicans that was dumb.

        • McFlock 4.3.1.1
          24 November 2017 at 2:06 pm

          During the 1990s the repubs were all about the clinton scandals, fixating especially on a relationship that was actually consensual. But there was also whitewater, and Vince Foster’s suicide. Even republican investigations said Foster committed suicide.

          I mean, I’d like to say that in the absence of all those lies and in today’s environment Clinton being accused of sexual assault would kick him out of contention in the party primaries, but even post-Weinstein it’s 50/50.

          • Cemetery Jones 4.3.1.1.1
            24 November 2017 at 2:39 pm

            Well you say lies; there was genuine suspicion and grounds for it around the circumstances of Foster’s death – as there would be in any DC insider who knows where the bodies are buried in the President’s political and personal past turning up having committed such an unusually timed and placed suicide.

            A more interesting take on it would be, what did the Clintons do to piss the guy off so much that not only did he take his own life, but seemed to have done it in such method and circumstance that conspiracy theories about his erstwhile employers were virtually guaranteed. Of course there are opponents who will continue to flog a dead horse when there’s that kind of innuendo on hand.

            Again, think your right about the difficulties of gauging his chances even in times like his own. There’s no denying his charisma with the wider electorate, and he apparently lit a room right up when present, that’s gold dust in politics. And the Clintons do seem to be very serious networkers. I’d say if the opponent was formidable enough, they’d probably pick him even with a dozen sex scandals around his neck. Much like Trump, or Key, Slick Willie seems to have that knack for being really quite scandal-proof in the eyes of someone who’d vote for him.

            • McFlock 4.3.1.1.1.1
              24 November 2017 at 2:44 pm

              The guy shot himself in a park.

              There were suspicions, few (if any) of those were genuine, and rumours were outright fabricated by republicans wanting to encourage idiot conspiracists. Well, now they’re reaping the whirlwind with trump.

              • Cemetery Jones …
                24 November 2017 at 3:40 pm

                Indeed, an odd choice of place – and an odd choice of time given when he was found, and the appointments he still had to make in the day ahead of him. Like I say, the more interesting ‘conspiracy’ side of it to me is that if he bore the Clintons no ill will, he sure went through with it in a way which seemed designed to embarrass them.

                Let’s face it, it’s not just because he worked for a recently appointed president. That kind of beltway suicide (god that’d be a great name for a punk band) will always attract suspicion. Imagine if Eagleson did something like that right after Ponytail-gate, for instance. Or if something like it happened to someone from David Cameron’s office right after Pig-gate. No way there wouldn’t be questions asked or innuendo spread.

                • McFlock …
                  24 November 2017 at 4:14 pm

                  Especially if people really want to think there’s such a thing as an “odd choice” made by someone in extremis.

                  Do you really want to excuse republicans for paying people to publish lies about the guy’s death?

                  • Cemetery Jones …
                    24 November 2017 at 4:55 pm

                    Yeah, actually there are choices which are odd even in such extreme circumstances, and Foster’s was a good example. You can be as obtuse as you like about it, it’s simply obvious to most of us that given who he was and who he worked for, how and when he went was indeed definitively odd.

                    As to the Republicans, I’m quite capable of separating a lack of surprise that they looked closely at it when it happened from the idea that some among them might persist in bringing it up long after it became apparent that doing so would make them look like conspiracy theorists.

                    • McFlock …
                      24 November 2017 at 5:30 pm

                      He wrote a resignation letter, tore it up, drove to a park, and shot himself.

                      There is even a forest in Japan known for its suicides. A lot of people seem to like a decent view before capping themselves.

                    • Cemetery Jones []
                      24 November 2017 at 6:09 pm

                      Comparing the cultural traditions of suicide in Japan to that of the USA? Surely you jest?

                    • Cemetery Jones []
                      24 November 2017 at 7:26 pm

                      Wasn’t a national park though was it? I mean, taking a long drive out into the wilderness to end it in Yellowstone park, or out to the desert to admire Window Rock, or perhaps at the foot of a majestic redwood or something. But I remember the spot where Foster was found from a documentary a way back. It looked like bloody Myers park or something.

                      Remember, we’re not trying to prove here whether or not it was dodgy. The point is simply that given who he was, who he worked for, and the scandal he had been a part of it’s simply unsurprising that Clinton’s political opponents made hay with the potential innuendo. There was enough not to find it surprising – we’re talking about the 1990s Republicans here…

                    • McFlock …
                      25 November 2017 at 1:56 am

                      Meh. Looks ok to me, with trees and streams and other nature shit, but each to their own.

                      The thing is, he could have died of cancer diagnosed by three different doctors and a pathologist who took samples, and if the documentary you saw was one funded by the repubs the doctors would have been called drunkards and claims made they were paid off by the clintons.

                      There are reasonable suspicions, and then there are lies. In the late 80s and early 90s, conservative republicans chose to ignore the truth and just say whatever was convenient at the time. So now we have trump as the culmination of that decision.

                    • Cemetery Jones …
                      25 November 2017 at 10:41 am

                      I’d say Trump is the culmination of all kinds of decisions, some from politicians, others from business & banking, and some of course from the MIC – who continue to do as well out of him as any other president in my lifetime.

                    • McFlock …
                      25 November 2017 at 1:34 pm

                      Most of them are thinking they over-egged it this time.

          • tracey 4.3.1.1.2
            24 November 2017 at 3:53 pm

            Hasnt Trump had multiple accusations of sexual impropriety made against him and he still made Pres in 2016

            • McFlock 4.3.1.1.2.1
              24 November 2017 at 4:22 pm

              Yes, because somehow hillary was so much worse than him.

              • Colonial Viper …
                24 November 2017 at 8:36 pm

                That’s what white women decided in the election; they voted for Trump by a clear ten point majority over Hillary.

                • McFlock …
                  25 November 2017 at 2:06 am

                  Yup, the whiter they were and the lower educated they were, the more they voted for trump.

                  • Cemetery Jones …
                    25 November 2017 at 11:29 am

                    Charitable view of the working class you’ve got there, sir. Let’s tell them wrong-thinking herp-a-derps how dumb they are for not believing what we tell them & valuing things that we don’t.

                    • McFlock …
                      25 November 2017 at 1:41 pm

                      It’s a fact. The same exit polls that gave CV his “ten point majority” showed Trumps popularity was inversely proportionate to the voter’s level of educational attainment, their ethinicity’s population as a proportion of the total population, and even whether they had a vagina. That’s why CV had to restrict it to “white women” rather than “women”. The majority of women voted for Clinton.

                      A bit like how the majority of electoral votes went to trump, even though the majority of actual votes went to Clinton.

                    • Cemetery Jones []
                      25 November 2017 at 2:17 pm

                      I’m glad you felt the need to remind me of the electoral vote – popular vote ratio in that election. It’s quite probable that there’s someone out there who didn’t know, and to whom this highly obscure piece of information might be news.

                      As to your deflective rundown of details everyone is perfectly familiar with (you aren’t an avid Vox reader by any chance? Distinct tonal similarity), it changes nothing. You don’t like working class people, it’s clear as day. No need to respond to the accusation by throwing around some excuses to emphasize that it’s a data driven dislike. Just be cool with who you are, my dude: someone morally and intellectually better suited than they to determine who should be in charge.

                      No amount of Russian facebook memes will go half as far in explaining how Trump won.

                    • McFlock …
                      25 November 2017 at 7:52 pm

                      I don’t like morons who vote for nazi sympathisers, that’s for damned sure.

                      edit: because if they knew who they were voting for, I dislike those individuals even less than if they voted for him just because they were stupid.

            • rightly or wrongly 4.3.1.1.2.2
              24 November 2017 at 7:07 pm

              I suspect the difference is between talking about things and actually doing things.

              Trump was stupid for talking about grabbing women but as far as I know he was never proven of actually sexually assaulting anyone or misusing a position of power.

              Clinton on the other hand (and the long list of Hollywood hypocrites) were all about physically committing sexual offending.

              Makes me laugh that the Hollywood elite who for years have pontificated about society’s short comings (and excused Clinton’s sins) have been found to be worse offenders than those they have pointed an accusatory finger at.

              Morally corrupt, inept, and without a smidge of shame or regret – the fakery they practice in their occupation has become their reality.

              This time last year they were all chanting for Hillary and demonizing Trump and it turns out that they (and her) are far worse than Trump was every portrayed as being.

  5. Morrissey 5
    24 November 2017 at 9:27 am

    GROPERS
    No. 9: Professor Harold Bloom

    He called students, male and female both, “my dear” and “my child.” Beautiful, brilliant students surrounded him. He was a vortex of power and intellectual charisma. [….] Bloom agreed to meet with me weekly. [….] The others eventually left and—finally!—I thought we could discuss my poetry manuscript. I set it between us. He did not open it. He did not look at it. He leaned toward me and put his face inches from mine. “You have the aura of election upon you,” he breathed. [….] I hoped he was talking about my poetry. I moved back and took the manuscript and turned it around so he could read.

    The next thing I knew, his heavy, boneless hand was hot on my thigh. …

    http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/n_9932/index1.html

    “GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    More gropers. Collect the series!…
    
No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush; No. 2 Bill O’Reilly; No. 3 Al Franken; No. 4 Robin Brooke; No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger; No. 7 Joe Biden; No. 8 Rolf Harris

  6. Grey Area 6
    24 November 2017 at 9:54 am

    I heard Todd McClay prattling on earlier on Morning Report about the CPTTP saying it needed to be concluded before Christmas as basically otherwise countries other than the current four holdouts will want to re-negotiate aspects of it. I assume he said this with a straight face.

    So this really good “trade” agreement needs to be signed NOW otherwise everyone will want to fix aspects of it they are not happy with or want to improve for themselves.

    So maybe it can’t be such a great agreement after all Todd. But I suspect he already knows that.

  7. tracey 7
    24 November 2017 at 10:14 am

    Fascinating article in the Guardian about bullshit management speak, amongst otger things

    ” At the very point when work seemed to be withering away, we all became obsessed with it. To be a good citizen, you need to be a productive citizen. There is only one problem, of course: there is less than ever that actually needs to be produced. As Graeber pointed out, the answer has come in the form of what he calls “bullshit jobs”. These are jobs in which people experience their work as “utterly meaningless, contributing nothing to the world”. In a YouGov poll conducted in 2015, 37% of respondents in the UK said their job made no meaningful contribution to the world. But people working in bullshit jobs need to do something. And that something is usually the production, distribution and consumption of bullshit. According to a 2014 survey by the polling agency Harris, the average US employee now spends 45% of their workingday doing their real job ”

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/23/from-inboxing-to-thought-showers-how-business-bullshit-took-over?CMP=fb_gu

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      24 November 2017 at 10:47 am

      Bureaucrats and technocrats need to make it look and sound like they know more than everyone else. What better way than impenetrable layers of jargon. As the old saying goes ‘bullshit baffles brains.’

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      24 November 2017 at 11:42 am

      As factories producing goods in the west have been dismantled, and their work outsourced or replaced with automation, large parts of western economies have been left with little to do. In the 1970s, some sociologists worried that this would lead to a world in which people would need to find new ways to fill their time.

      I seem to recall an article that said that the politicians and business people were worried to. They were concerned that if all the small people had more time they might get involved in politics and then the politicians and business people would be out of a job telling people what to do.

    • joe90 7.3
      24 November 2017 at 1:12 pm

      bullshit management speak,

      Of course

      …..competently develop diverse ROI continually communicate distinctive resources interactively monetize excellent nosql uniquely optimize user-centric experiences…

      http://www.atrixnet.com/bs-generator.html

      • tracey 7.3.1
        24 November 2017 at 1:52 pm

        Moving forward. Why not just say ” in the future”…

        • OnceWasTim 7.3.1.1
          24 November 2017 at 5:27 pm

          Moving forward or going forward is usually redundant anyway. What the fuck else would you be doing unless you had the power to make ‘the fullness of time’ stand still.

  8. patricia bremner 8
    24 November 2017 at 10:41 am

    A very poor effort of journalism by John Sergeant Taranaki Daily News.

    “A (sic) Issue of Neglect not always Poverty”

    What a poorly researched piece of paid work. Trotting out the usual right wing rubbish for the clickbaiters in their readership.

    Apparently, by feeding poor children we teach them it is someone else’s problem that they are hungry, and they will grow up to hold their hand out.

    He makes a weak connection that it is neglect by parent/s not poverty which causes hungry children.

    Solo parents beneficiaries widows and widowers plus the ill and others struggling to provide for their children will be even more depressed with their struggle reading that mean minded piece.

    The usual band waggon “yes yes mob” was in evidence in the stuff comments, though some excellent rebuttals as well.

    Editors should wake up. We see through this agenda. Political lies to embarrass a new P.M.

    • eco maori 8.1
      24 November 2017 at 12:43 pm

      + 1000 Patrica bremner these people are not intelligent enough to fathom that we can see there dum ass motives for there un logical articles . The state sets the systems up not the people If one has no money and no knowledge on how to make money in one situation than the state is to take the blame this is fact national set the system up for the wealthy and who loses well everyone that’s not wealthy.Kia Kaha

  9. Cemetery Jones 9
    24 November 2017 at 11:25 am

    Stuff like this is what makes me wonder whether I’ll regret party voting Labour instead of NZF. This guy, who has never had any real regard for social democratic principle and always seems to simply follow the herd, finally sticks his neck out on something, and it’s just the usual $2 Store Marcusianism:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99170336/national-party-up-in-arms-about-changes-to-the-parliamentary-prayer

    He couldn’t ever have considered being brave and standing up for NZ in the arena of economic sovereignty perhaps instead of winding up old people about Jesus and the Queen?

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1
      24 November 2017 at 12:04 pm

      The National Party had demanded the Speaker reinstate the old parliamentary prayer and properly consult with MPs before removing mentions of the Queen and Jesus Christ for good.

      Typical of authoritarians. They first look to the hierarchy.

      Shouldn’t it be up to the people to decide?

      The National Party’s issue with the changes is that the monarch of New Zealand “is our constitutional head of state” and the reference to Jesus Christ is an “important part of the our parliament’s history and holds meaning to members”.

      But do the people want it to remain so?

      National Party leader Bill English is a practising Catholic and a number of MPs chose to swear their allegiance on a bible during the swearing in ceremony earlier this month.

      And yet Bill English lies and twists and spins to the people of NZ. It obviously doesn’t what he swears on – he still can’t be trusted.

      • Cemetery Jones 9.1.1
        24 November 2017 at 12:18 pm

        “Shouldn’t it be up to the people to decide?”

        Possibly, but Trevor Mallard is not the people, and if you’re going to let the people decide, then you’d make those changes once they’ve decided. I can’t stand National, but they’re at least correct to state that Mallard is way out of line. Personally, I look to little things like this as indicators of what’s going on beneath the surface. And it stinks of a government elected to deal with poverty, housing, employment and solid social democratic basics somehow being more interested in $2 Store Marcusian tinkering now that they’re in.

        “And yet Bill English lies and twists and spins to the people of NZ. It obviously doesn’t what he swears on – he still can’t be trusted.”

        I can’t think of a National leader in my lifetime who that sentence wouldn’t apply to! Feeling a bit shit about party voting Labour instead of NZF =/= ever considering National as an alternative.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1
          24 November 2017 at 12:30 pm

          And it stinks of a government elected to deal with poverty, housing, employment and solid social democratic basics somehow being more interested in $2 Store Marcusian tinkering now that they’re in.

          The big problem with that is that you’re not talking about the actions of the government but the actions of The Speaker.

      • Heather Grimwood 9.1.2
        24 November 2017 at 3:52 pm

        I have thought for considerable time that use of Christian prayer absolutely not suitable for ethnically and/or of differing religion participants…including viewers/listeners.

        • Cemetery Jones 9.1.2.1
          24 November 2017 at 4:58 pm

          How is it not suitable? I’m an atheist and I don’t find traditions inappropriate, or distressing, or unsuitable. It’s just a quaint anachronism which reminds us of the past. Some choose to see only bad things in the past. I see a mixed picture which for better or for worse saw us evolve the best systems of government, which is why people of ethnically and/or differing religions who’ve seen some of the alternatives love living in places with Westminster systems, and will even risk their lives to get there.

  10. One Anonymous Bloke 10
    24 November 2017 at 11:28 am

    I bet the comments section will be a doozy.

    We are all encouraged to construct a story of our own (relative) success that leans heavily on our own individual effort and hard work. That is the founding myth of capitalism, work hard and you too can be a success.

    The reality is that we all rely on luck, good fortune and being born to the right parents. And there’s also simply the absence of bad luck: illness, an accident or other random events that prevent or limit our economic independence.

    You can almost feel the sharp intake of wingnut breath, as they prepare to illustrate MacDonald’s point.

  11. Ad 11
    24 November 2017 at 12:04 pm

    The party is over for Australia’s %5.6 trillion housing frenzy.

    You can almost substitute the name “New Zealand” for the word “Australia” throughout the entire article:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-23/australia-faces-housing-hangover-twice-size-of-u-s-subprime-era

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1
      24 November 2017 at 12:26 pm

      Aussie households have racked up record private debts and aren’t getting the pay rises to help service them. That’s a core concern for the RBA and frequently cited as a deterrent for hiking interest rates. Macquarie Bank has said such debt levels mean any hikes will have triple the impact on consumers than tightening cycles in the mid-1990s. With retail sales looking grim and wage growth near record lows, debt will likely vex policy makers for years.

      Yep. Sounds like NZ all too much. Raising interest rates in NZ will put many under water.

    • Antoine 11.2
      24 November 2017 at 3:59 pm

      It’s a strange article. It headlines with “The party is finally winding down for Australia’s housing market” but nothing in the article actually supports this. If you follow a link, you finally get to the basis for this claim, which is just a nil increase in mean house (sale?) prices from Sep to Oct 2017. Not enough to convince me that the boom has ended…

      A.

  12. vto 12
    24 November 2017 at 12:15 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/98942078/being-a-male-teacher-was-my-dream–until-i-was-falsely-accused

    “Society is constantly branding all men by the actions of the few who do wrong. That kind of attitude comes at a cost and is hurting your grandfathers, your fathers, your brothers, and – most of all – your sons.”

    I wonder if he is white too, and middle class..

  13. eco maori 13
    24 November 2017 at 1:03 pm

    Stop sending these people out to the farm as I will name and shame them and this will ruffle a lot of peoples feathers thanks for the Mana and the escorts ka pai
    My truck is running like new after I changed the water pump the viscous fan was stuffed and was making the motor work to hard. I always buy Manual vehicles because the motors last longer they are cheaper to run than a automatic car the motor last longer because a automatic car motor is always under load were as a manual car every time you change gear the load comes off the motor many other good reasons to buy manual’s a back yard mechanic can change a clucth in a manual car if you have a problem with automatics big bucks to fix PS been busy with my Moko .Kia Kaha

  14. Morrissey 14
    24 November 2017 at 7:10 pm

    The Stupidest People in The World
    Exhibit A: TUCKER CARLSON

    Carlson is notoriously dumb, even for a Fox News host. Here he is trying to foot it with one of America’s smartest guys. The result is, to say the least, embarrassing. The “highlight” (actually, the nadir) comes at the 6:00 mark, when Carlson says, with deadly earnestness, widening his eyes for full effect: “So stop lecturing me about Rosa Parks, right?”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbLYTeKtAg4

    The Stupidest People in the World is curated by M. Breen, for Daisycutter Sports Inc.

  15. eco maori 15
    24 November 2017 at 9:04 pm

    Global warming is the biggest threat to US humans I think a lot of people dont get it. Sea level rising is not the biggest threat in my view the biggest threat is the warming of our mother earth it’s basic science. The four states of matter 1 solid 2 liquid 3 gas 4 plasma. It won’t take much warning to cause our worlds soils to become disfunctional I.E all the water that our soils hold will turn to gas and with no water in our soils we can’t grow the food to feed all the people of our world.
    Sure we could use hydroponic to grow our food but that won’t be enough to feed all OUR people in our world. This phenomenon will create Wars as every one goes to control the higher cooler soils to grow there food. I see how easy our soils dry out in summer and all the plants go to seed. We are also destroying our humus in our soil buy cheating the nutrients cycle by using chemical fertiliser that don’t directly feed the plant they just break down our humus faster so they release there nutrient faster and we destroying our humus which is what holds water in our soils.
    So in my view we need to farm our soil and build up the humus so our soils can hold more water when it gets warmer the more humus the more water that’s held in our soils this is fact. At the minute we are doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing to have a long and prosperous future for OUR Moko. Ka pai

  16. eco maori 16
    24 November 2017 at 9:24 pm

    The logical thing to do is not to wait and put the ambulance at the bottom of OUR cliff. The logical thing to do is to act now so we don’t need the________ ambulance at all come on people get with it I have been studying global warming on the net for many years and it is easy to see the bullshit artists article as they go against most of OUR scientist Kia kaha

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.