Open mike 27/03/2024

44 comments on “Open mike 27/03/2024 ”

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1. SPC 1

   27 March 2024 at 6:47 am

   A UK court has asked the Americans to reassure them that Assange has free speech rights and will not face the death penalty if extradited to the USA.

   The Americans can guarantee this easily enough (especially if they say no less free speech rights than he had in the UK).

   The thing is the decline of the health of Assange because of his prison conditions (and past embassy circumstance).

   At this point the US government should ask for guarantees about his health before any transfer – or else have plans for his recovery before he stands trial.

   https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68662881
   • Koff 1.1

     27 March 2024 at 2:44 pm

     I have just watched the documentary* on the Assange and Wikileaks case here in Brisbane which was released in Oz. NZ and the UK (but not the U.S.) just before yesterday's court ruling. It's a very powerful film and sets out Assange's case well. If the detail is accurate it's unlikely that Assange would live much longer in Belmarsh anyway and sending him to the U.S. probably a death sentence in itself.

     * Film is called "Trust Fall" and is definitely worth watching: https://www.thetrustfall.org/
2. Joe90 2

   27 March 2024 at 8:49 am

   Russia celebrates and rewards torturers and mutilatilators.

   Of course Russians use sexual violence as a weapon of war.

   .

   Atrocities are Russia’s means of warfare. Since the beginning of its aggression against Ukraine in 2014, the Kremlin has weaponised actions that are internationally considered as crimes, including sexual violence. With the all-out invasion in 2022, Russia’s sexual violence has expanded in its prevalence and gravity. It makes for difficult reading, but the extent of documented crimes includes rapes; gang rapes; sexual slavery; beating and mutilation of genitalia; castration; threats of rape and forcing family members to witness abuse of their loved ones.

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/25/russia-weaponising-sexual-violence-ukraine-values
   • francesca 2.1

     27 March 2024 at 9:36 am

     I would expect nothing less from a patriotic Ukrainian
3. Obtrectator 3

   27 March 2024 at 9:20 am

   Data that's specifically about persistent (i.e. long-term and/or inter-generational) poverty is no longer being collected:

   https://www.stats.govt.nz/help-with-surveys/list-of-stats-nz-surveys/about-the-living-in-aotearoa-survey/

   As Kate Prickett remarks in today's Post*, " …. cancellation of the Living In Aotearoa Survey means the government will escape being held to account for how our most vulnerable children are doing".

   *not in their on-line edition

   Supposedly a StatsNZ (not government) decision, but almost certainly one consequent upon the 6.5% reductions being imposed on them.

   Will we be seeing further examples of important information being deemed too expensive to collect?
   • joe90 3.1

     27 March 2024 at 9:27 am

     *not in their on-line edition

     The Press.

     OPINION: In 2018, Aotearoa New Zealand passed ground-breaking legislation, with both the left and the right agreeing that eliminating child poverty was important for a fair and productive society.

     A key part of understanding whether our policies and our economy were meeting that challenge — the legislation emphasised — was making sure we were collecting data and measuring whether, in fact, child poverty was going down.

     To that end, the legislation mandates that the government collect data to be able to report on nine different measures of poverty, with four of those measures identified as primary measures.

     Complying with that mandate, however, just became a lot harder. On Friday afternoon, StatsNZ quietly posted a webpage announcement to say that its barely born Living in Aotearoa Survey was being cancelled.

     https://archive.li/TdFSe
   • tc 3.2

     27 March 2024 at 9:55 am

     Already have with their removal of the legislative changes parker had going through to collect data for a fairer taxation system.

     The reasoning …its more red tape/reduce beauracracy.
   • Gosman 3.3

     27 March 2024 at 10:35 am

     Stats NZ has a choice what data collection (if any) they cut. They obviously decided it was not as worthwhile data as others.
     • KJT 3.3.1

       27 March 2024 at 11:25 am

       Just coincidental that it is data that will embarrass the Coalition of Clowns, sorry, cuts!

       Yeah Right!
       • Gosman 3.3.1.1

         27 March 2024 at 12:24 pm

         Why would the Public Servants at Stats NZ be willing to do things to protect the Government from embarrassment? Surely they would be more likely to do things that would embarrass them as they would prefer not to cut spending.
         • weka 3.3.1.1.1

           27 March 2024 at 12:37 pm

           because they want to keep their jobs? Or they're rw?
           • Gosman 3.3.1.1.1.1

             27 March 2024 at 2:11 pm

             The Government does not sack Public servants. The Public service is independent.
             • KJT …

               27 March 2024 at 2:19 pm

               Please message me.

               I have a bridge to sell you.
             • weka …

               27 March 2024 at 2:35 pm

               Schrodinger's job cuts.
         • KJT 3.3.1.1.2

           27 March 2024 at 1:31 pm

           Public servants do what they are told.
           • Gosman 3.3.1.1.2.1

             27 March 2024 at 2:13 pm

             Then you should be able to request an OIO for any communication from the Government to Stats NZ requesting they cease collecting data for this. If you get that it would be HUGELY scandalous.
4. weka 4

   27 March 2024 at 10:34 am

   the left wing critique of DQSH in public libraries and schools (short version):

   1. The problem isn't gender non-conformity, which the left supports, it's child safeguarding
   2. Drag is inherently a form of adult entertainment based around sexual content
   3. Internationally, there are plenty of examples of DQs doing sexualised content performances in front of children
   4. Because of No Debate, and the liberal left's reactionary position to critique, the left can't have any conversation in NZ about DQSH and child safeguarding
   5. Thus we don't know if sexual content is part of DQSH in NZ. The issue isn't that all DQSH is sexualised, it's that we have no way of finding out.
   6. the issue also isn't that all DQs are sexual predators, or that they all do sexual performance, it's that the (neo)liberal position is in the process of removing child safeguarding in a number of areas, and that too many people now don't know what child safeguarding is (it's an actual thing, not some moral panic from religious fundies)
   7. child safeguarding isn't about opposing gender non-conformity (that's the conservative argument, not the left one). It's about maintaining clear boundaries so that children who are inherently vulnerable are best protected
   8. if the liberal left wants to make a case for sexual content at DQSH, they need to make an actual case not pretend it's not happening

   Here are some examples. If they seem shocking or unbelievable or uncommon, that's because MSM doesn't report on this, and most liberals are in a social media bubble. The rest of us see this and the political analysis of it routinely.

   Sexual content at DQ performances with children:

   https://twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/1651497384629641216

   A picture in NZH about DQSH, and Rainbow SH FB page sharing the article without comment on the costume on the right.

   https://www.facebook.com/rainbowstorytime/posts/pfbid0fxn3SEqp7wKgPX1Kjs2EvAsWs6ik2yLNoeb9ScdekL6zkbC7gwpAC4Kfxx4jhxMkl

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/destiny-church-leader-brian-tamaki-wants-drag-queens-banned-from-public-spaces-just-like-gang-patches/7GSEMQMQKJDXBJ3S4REAFL5K5A/
   • weka 4.1

     27 March 2024 at 10:44 am

     Two additional issues.

     Drag Queens are performing parodies of women, demonstrating gross stereotypes. and there is a theme of sexism and misogyny in the culture (men mocking aspects of femaleness). Again, there is no way to know if DQSH in NZ is like that because we're not allowing a conversation about it and it's being left to the conservatives to drive the narrative.

     Drag kids. It's becoming acceptable for boys to be involved in sexual content as children.

     Drag kids doing adult sexuality,

     https://twitter.com/forevershallon/status/1351504740107038721

     https://twitter.com/DscvrChnnld/status/1519984774642814979

     This is a pretty good explainer of the drag kid issues from a conservative woman who isn't opposed to drag generally.

     
     
     
     • tWig 4.1.1

       27 March 2024 at 4:12 pm

       Coco of Erika and Coco, the drag artist act, is an actual female who dresses up in rainbow clothes. The two have run a drag act business since 2020, focusing on small towns round NZ. They visit many venues, and tailor their act to suit the circumstances. Have a read of the many, many positive reviews of the library performances by parents who took their kids along before this post-Posie Parker NZ. No grooming involved.

       Under your logic, no children should be exposed to androgenous dressing by men in dresses, and, by extension, to butch-dressing women jeans, work boots, muscle tees or tuxes with fake mos (shout out to Jools and Linda Topp!). And we should police little kids play dressing up in their mum's old dresses, no little boys allowed, just like in the 60's.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         27 March 2024 at 5:25 pm

         Coco of Erika and Coco, the drag artist act, is an actual female who dresses up in rainbow clothes. The two have run a drag act business since 2020, focusing on small towns round NZ. They visit many venues, and tailor their act to suit the circumstances. Have a read of the many, many positive reviews of the library performances by parents who took their kids along before this post-Posie Parker NZ. No grooming involved.

         I’ve watched a bit of them online and I have no trouble believing that you are probably right about their act and their ability to discern what is ok for kids and what isn’t.

         There are still two problems:

         1. We’re talking DQSH in NZ generally, not just those two performers.
         2. Because the debate has been so polarised, we haven’t been able to have a conversation around child safeguarding. Which means we don’t know if adequate safe guarding is happening or not. Here I am talking about the judgement of councils and libraries are well as DQ culture. You can look up the rainbow dildo butt monkey saga in the UK if you want to see why trust should not longer be automatically granted.

         If the liberal left allowed a full and frank conversation about child safeguarding instead of this perpetual reactionary shutting down, I suspect that acts like Erica and Coco would be able to continue with better support. But the commitment has to be to child safeguarding first.
       • weka 4.1.1.2

         27 March 2024 at 5:33 pm

         Under your logic, no children should be exposed to androgenous dressing by men in dresses, and, by extension, to butch-dressing women jeans, work boots, muscle tees or tuxes with fake mos (shout out to Jools and Linda Topp!). And we should police little kids play dressing up in their mum’s old dresses, no little boys allowed, just like in the 60’s.

         You appear to not understand the logic, which is strange given your commitment to gender non-conformity.

         I already said that gender non-conformity isn’t the problem and that the left supports this. The argument you are talking about is an ultra conservative one. In NZ most people don’t care about GNC and are quite happy for people to dress how they want (mostly appropriate to the occasion). Feminists like myself want more freedom for people to present how they want to present and an end to gender enforced roles (we also have a critique of DQ culture where it is misogynistic in its parody of women).

         The accurate comparison here would be other adult entertainers eg strippers, going into libraries in their stripper work clothes and performing simulated sex acts for kids. In which case I would absolutely oppose this as well. If however, someone who is a stripper at night, also does clowning for kids during the day, has good boundaries around work and doesn’t bring anything about the stripping to the clown job, then all good.

         I also think it’s important to point out that if you can’t follow my basic arguments there, if you think wanting to protect children from sexualised content is the same as thinking kids shouldn’t be exposed to butch women and efeminate men, then you are in no position to understand what child safeguarding is.
         • weka 4.1.1.2.1

           27 March 2024 at 5:35 pm

           I mean, I literally made it my first point,

           1. The problem isn't gender non-conformity, which the left supports, it's child safeguarding

           Do you not understand what that means?
     • Tabletennis 4.1.2

       27 March 2024 at 5:41 pm

       Thank you Weka: I like to add the commercial site of things

       Why the mono culture effort over many NZ libraries, to put on Drag Queen story time for children?
       These events endorse the belief that if a man puts on a dress, he becomes a woman and, by extension, that children can literally change their sex.
       Without exception there will be one or more titles on their reading list to make children believe that Janet has become Jimmy.

       How can parents give informed consent to their children hearing sexual content when the performers advertise that they will answer any impromptu question from the audience?

       Further more: Rainbow Storytime is a private business that charges fees.
       Libraries do not normally support any private businesses, so why is an exception being made for this one?

       Libraries are supposed to be neutral, non-commercial spaces, for the benefit of all citizens.

       https://resistgendereducation.substack.com/p/libraries-go-astray
       • weka 4.1.2.1

         27 March 2024 at 6:03 pm

         good article thanks, and it rounds out why I put up the Lactatia story alongside the DQSH issues. The blurring of boundaries is definitely happening.
5. Anne 5

   27 March 2024 at 10:44 am

   Today is the 40th anniversary of the Trades Hall bombing.

   Those who were around at the time will remember it well. Anti-union activity was rife throughout the country, aided and abetted by a malignant force in the shape of the former prime minister, RD Muldoon.

   It was a home grown act of terrorism.

   Former union boss, Ken Douglas is on record as saying:

   "We'd had really quite intense anti-union activity by the Muldoon government and that was on going to a very large extent, we'd had the Tania Harris marches in Auckland against trade unions, so there was a lot of emotions."

   Douglas said he believed the bomb was planted against the trade union movement and against the Labour Party.

   He said the media had reported the day before that a meeting was being held between the industrial and political labour was taking place that day.”

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/512762/wellington-trades-hall-bombing-mystery-still-surrounds-fatal-explosion

   The aim had been to wipe out the national union leadership, but the meeting venue was changed at the last minute, and the care-taker Ernie Abbott was killed. Essentially that is what happened.

   From some experiences of my own at that time, I beleive there is more to this story than has been shared with the public. That is a shame because, for one reason or another, innocent people had their reputations shattered over that incident.
   • AB 5.1

     27 March 2024 at 2:37 pm

     Thanks for your recollections Anne. I caught a bus in Vivian St not far from Trades Hall that morning – less than half an hour before the explosion. I was too young and politically naive at the time to have much inkling of what was happening and why.
6. joe90 6

   27 March 2024 at 11:09 am

   It's working.

   

   Conversation

   @ConceptualJames

   ·Mar 16, 2021

   Critical Race Theory is falling. It's end, but not THE end, is coming.

   @realchrisrufo

   ·Mar 16, 2021

   I agree with you. The activists are realizing that their ideas, once put into practice, are generating discontent. Their racial coalition is also breaking apart—Asian-Americans, in particular, are revolting against CRT, which punishes them more than any other group.

   @realchrisrufo

   ·Mar 16, 2021

   We have successfully frozen their brand—"critical race theory"—into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category.

   @realchrisrufo

   The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think "critical race theory." We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans.

   https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371541044592996352
7. Robert Guyton 7

   27 March 2024 at 11:17 am

   "…the Tarras airport will harm tourism because we have no way of limiting tourism numbers…"

   [deleted]

   [Site policy:

   Directly or indirectly advocating violence in any shape or form (including ‘jest’ and advocating self-harm) to individuals or groups is simply not allowed. Moderators will have a no-tolerance humourless response as the only possible response. If you want to talk about political conflicts around the world, then do so being mindful of this proscription]

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Bearded Git 7.1

     27 March 2024 at 12:52 pm

     Tarras airport will be fast-tracked.
   • Robert Guyton 7.2

     27 March 2024 at 12:56 pm

     You MUST be joking!!

     Suggesting that we limit the length of the runway means large aircraft won't choose Tarras as a destination, not whatever dark interpretation you have made. I am offended and feel an injustice has been made here. Please repost my original comment and read it again with my explanation in mind. Anyone reading the edited comment above will cause people to think poorly of me, unfairly.

     I am not happy.
     • weka 7.2.1

       27 March 2024 at 1:09 pm

       You can repost on the CANA post making it clear what you meant 👍
       • Robert Guyton 7.2.1.1

         27 March 2024 at 1:11 pm

         I meant what I said. I said what I meant.
8. Phillip ure 8

   27 March 2024 at 1:01 pm

   A financial-equation around the homeless – that not many are aware of:

   Let's take just ten homeless – those sleeping rough – in cars/vans etc.

   On paper each of those ten homeless would be eligible for emergency accomodation in a motel..at a cost to taxpayers/the public purse of approx $2,000 per week…multiplied by 10 = $20,000 per week..

   Over one year those ten homeless…by getting by as best they can..save the taxpayers one million dollars..

   A further saving comes from none of those ten claiming accomodation benefits..and the like..

   Plus they put their incomes thru the local tills..

   So what is the fucken problem..?

   The homeless are less of drain upon the public purse…than just about anyone else..

   And they can stand tall and proud..can look anyone in the eye..take pride in taking care of business/taking no handouts..

   (Contrast this with the mewlings of business sectors etc..who stand there with their hands held out for those taxpayer dollars)

   So how about shelving the stigmatising..the attitudes shown by many…
9. SPC 9

   27 March 2024 at 2:56 pm

   ACT are calling student areas for Maori and Polynesians segregation and the deputy PM from another party mentions the KKK.

   They have been there for decades, but apparently this is now unacceptable – because "the being critical of any privilege or special treatment for non whites moment" has arrived.

   Clarence Thomas built his career in DC opposing affirmative action (after graduating from Harvard law School via that programme).

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/university-of-auckland-student-shuts-down-segregation-allegations-levelled-by-act-party/NDOIZJDBHBFHFOEJJYYHLUNLLI/
   • Visubversa 9.1

     27 March 2024 at 3:15 pm

     I remember similar moaning over the establishment of Women's Common Rooms at universities in the late 1960's.
   • tWig 9.2

     27 March 2024 at 3:29 pm

     Big Hairy News unpack the issues on ACT's race-baiting on this space issue.

     My 20 years ago my child's school secondary school ran homework spaces for different ethnic groups among its students (Asian, Indian, Pacifika, Maori formed 60-70% of the student body at Mt Roskill then). Targetted study groups encouraged peer-to-peer support groups that improved academic outcomes for students. Great idea, but needing separate spaces.
   • weka 9.3

     27 March 2024 at 3:40 pm

     the right are winning the culture war, and the liberal left are wondering why.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.1

       27 March 2024 at 5:23 pm

       DeSantis faces pushback in Florida as voters tire of war on woke
       [9 March 2024]
       Conservative lawmakers rejected a host of new culture wars proposals in the legislature

       the right are winning the culture war, and the liberal left are wondering why.

       The 'right' have won some battles, but imho "culture war[s]" will always be with us.
       I choose to believe that "There is more that unites us than divides us."

       Waging Culture Wars Justly [25 March 2024]
       Proportionality
       Second, I think proportionality in a culture war means something like “playfulness.” This second point will feel like it’s in some tension with the first. I think that a just culture war can be one in which, while we do not trade insult for insult, we do trade joke for joke, barb for barb.
       …
       The internet could use more pacifists. I’m reminded of a cartoon I saw years ago, where this guy is on his computer in the middle of the night. His bathrobed wife says “Honey, are you coming to bed?” He says, “I can’t, somebody is wrong on the internet.”

       Who cares about the culture war? [10 Jan 2024]
       Those who are economically left and socially liberal place little importance on candidates’ positions on culture war issues. Instead, they prioritise economic (six out of the top ten) and traditional non-economic (four out of the top ten) issues.
       …
       Why might culture war issues have played a bigger role for people with more traditional social values? Partly, this may be because politicians and media on this side of politics were emphasising the issues referred to in the survey – such as Suella Braverman ending diversity training in her department and Rishi Sunak campaigning to stop ‘woke nonsense’.
       …
       Certain periods have seen culture wars rise and fall in prominence. These issues may be important to party competition now, but may play less (or more) of a role in the future. New issues will continually emerge in the ever-evolving landscape of cultural battles, and could motivate orthodox and progressive voters to act in different ways in the future.

       Some writers and scholars have said that culture wars are created or perpetuated by political special interest groups, by reactionary social movements, by party dynamics, or by electoral politics as a whole. These authors view culture war not as an unavoidable result of widespread cultural differences, but as a technique used to create in-groups and out-groups for a political purpose.
       …
       According to The Guardian, "many on the left have argued that such [culture war] battles [a]re 'distractions' from the real fight over class and economic issues."
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Research
       • observer 9.3.1.1

         27 March 2024 at 5:45 pm

         Things happen in the USA. Very different things happen in NZ.

         If there's a "culture war" checklist it includes things like abortion, gay marriage, indigenous rights and language, attitudes to immigration, religion, and much more. The line on that graph in NZ is going one way, and it's not Florida's.

         Conservatives here (like Luxon) only get elected by promising NOT to undo progressive social changes. By at least pretending (for votes, not principles) that they were actually in favour of them all along.

         Itch-scratching shock-woke headlines are a media staple, always have been, but wars are won in votes. There's a reason why National have never returned to 2005.

         ACT and NZF want 10%. Governments don't.
         • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.1.1.1

           27 March 2024 at 5:55 pm

           Things happen in the USA. Very different things happen in NZ.

           I sincerely hope that "very different things" will continue to happen in Aotearoa NZ – the issue of Muller's MAGA cap certainly faded fast.
   • Rose 9.4

     27 March 2024 at 5:46 pm

     I’m disappointed in this story on two levels (1) the political capital Act is trying to make and (2) the general reporting on the matter by a defunct MSM in NZ.

     I’m up at the university as a mature student two days per week. I’ve seen the signs. What most of the media fail to mention is that this is all part of the Tuakana program to support Māori and Pacifica students. I’m fully in support of this program. My first stint at the university was the late 1980s. It’s such a joy to see so many more students now from theses communities feeling supported and succeeding at UOA.
     • observer 9.4.1

       27 March 2024 at 5:48 pm

       Well said, Rose.
10. SPC 10

    27 March 2024 at 4:24 pm

    Auckland International Airport Limited (AIA) floated on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) on Monday, 22 February 1999. The company opened its first day of trading with a share price of $0.71 which was down 60.50% from its offer price of $1.80 per share. The first day of trading for Auckland International Airport Limited on the ASX saw its share price move between a low of $0.71 and a high of $0.71, before closing at $0.71 per share which was 60.50% below its original offer price of $1.80 per share.

    AIA's current share price of $7.62 is a $5.82 or 323.33% premium to its original offer price of $1.80.

    https://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/shares/asx-aia/auckland-international-airport-limited/float

    The Mayor of Auckland says the owning the airport "which he says has a risk of flooding" is unwise and the dividend return is too low against cost of debt.

    So he wants to sell the shares and operate a wealth fund that generates a higher rate of return.

    He excluded historic CG from owning the shares from his assessment. The only way his wealth fund would generate the amount he claims (7.5%) would be via CG – the only guaranteed way (the airport is a land based asset) would be buy land before it was zoned residential. Pretty legal?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350225063/wayne-brown-we-need-forward-thinking-get-us-out-dumb-decision-making
11. SPC 11

    27 March 2024 at 5:05 pm

    Remember when we had government controlled leaks, via a trusted well educated go between, so China did not have to hack parliament to know what was going on before it was reported in the media?

    This is all a sad consequence of National’s money in the bag for MP’s fiasco, when we lost the chance for a next generation arrangement.

    The GCSB also has these controlled information flow arrangements so the USA had no need to hack them either.

    Of course, we have no need to spy on South Pacific governments and their parliament MP's because of course we educated them and they report to us, their friends …

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350226898/tova-obrien-very-good-friends-dont-attack-hack-and-spy-their-mates

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