Open mike 27/03/2013

180 comments on “Open mike 27/03/2013 ”

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1. Morrissey 1

   27 March 2013 at 6:19 am

   The News of the Day in a Flippant Way
   The Panel, Radio New Zealand National, Tuesday 26 March 2013
   Jim Mora, Anna Chinn, Bernard Hickey

   It’s billed as “The News of the Day in a Different Way”, but in fact Radio NZ National’s chat show “The Panel” is rarely much different from the insultingly vulgar rubbish on commercial talk radio. Look at the way Jim Mora handles the horrifying first story here: it is typical of his approach to many issues. First there is the unctuous protestation of concern, then the flippant comment that betrays a lack of moral seriousness or substantial engagement with the issue….

   JIM MORA: Okay it’s quarter to four, and Noelle McCarthy is here, with what the WORLD is talking about! What have you got for us today?

   NOELLE McCARTHY: Well, first up is this terrible story from Texas, about a high school cheerleader who was kicked off the squad because she refused to cheer for the basketball player who raped her.

   ….[Mora is silent for several seconds, to emphasize how appalled he is.]

   JIM MORA: [incredulous tone] How could this BE?

   NOELLE McCARTHY: She has now been ordered to pay forty-five thousand dollars for “filing a frivolous lawsuit”.

   MORA: But SURELY, this cannot BE. Mind you, the question has to be: why did she let herself get into this situation?

   ….Another long silence ensues, with Noelle McCarthy no doubt biting her tongue.….

   MORA: Okay, what else have you got?

   NOELLE McCARTHY: A Swedish firm has come up with the idea of letting people experience what it is like to be HOMELESS. They pay a twenty-dollar fee and they can sleep for a night on the street, or on a park bench or—-

   MORA: [fervently] Oh now, surely, THIS is frivolous. SURELY….

   ….et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam….

   http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/06/164194/scotus-texas-cheerleader/?mobile=nc
   • felix 1.1

     27 March 2013 at 9:27 am

     “Radio NZ National’s chat show “The Panel” is rarely much different from the insultingly vulgar rubbish on commercial talk radio.”

     This, a thousand times this.
     • Tigger 1.1.1

       27 March 2013 at 2:37 pm

       How did he let himself get in that situation? Oh right, he raped.

       Christ! Thanks Morrisey, these are always illuminating.
2. Jenny 2

   27 March 2013 at 6:31 am

   ‘

   When it comes to safety; As for coal industry tragedies, as it is for climate change. Prevention is better than cure.

   “Mines Rescue presses ahead with expansion”
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10873533

   A $1 million multi-purpose training facility is under way at the Mines Rescue station, although the number of underground miners on the West Coast has plummeted with the closure of the Pike River and Spring Creek mines.

   They should have done this before 29 men lost their lives

   It seems a bit late in the piece to invest in such things now. After the deaths, the scandal, the economic uncertainty, the climate worries, the continuing pollution of air and water, all pointing toward the terminal decline of this industry.

   The new safety training and rescue facility is available for other industries as well. So it won’t be a complete waste. Otherwise they would have just wasted $1 million on asbestos mine rescue, and dodo conservation.

   Maybe the money would have been better, divested to the remaining 56 underground coal miners still remaining on the coast, to help them exit this dieing industry.

   After all, prevention is better than cure.

   Mines Rescue West Coast general manager Trevor Watts said today that although there were now only 56 underground miners left on the Coast, the development was still needed.

   While the coal industry was going through hard times currently he was sure it would bounce back.

   Yeah Right

   Over our dead bodies
   • grumpy 2.1

     27 March 2013 at 10:50 am

     This is the key bit…..

     “that although there were now only 56 underground miners left on the Coast”

     Right, it’s all open cast now – as Pike River should have been.
     • vto 2.1.1

       27 March 2013 at 12:28 pm

       I am going to vote for a government which bans farming so as to turn all farmland back into native flora and fauna.
     • Visubversaviper 2.1.2

       27 March 2013 at 1:21 pm

       I think there were reasons why Pike River was not open cast. Something to do with it not being economical to move about 130m of solid rock from above the bits they wanted to get at.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3

       27 March 2013 at 1:40 pm

       This may be a new concept to you but the rest of us don’t actually want to destroy our environment.
     • Jenny 2.1.4

       27 March 2013 at 7:32 pm

       ‘

       Above ground, or below ground, no one is safe

       More deadly than asbestos. More poisonousness than uranium.

       Coal kills minors

       Coal Kills!

       Kill Coal!
       • Ugly Truth 2.1.4.1

         27 March 2013 at 7:42 pm

         Jenny, chill. Coal is not more deadly than asbestos.

         While it’s common sense to look after your environment, the issue has become as politicised as the threat of Al CIAda,
         • Jenny 2.1.4.1.1

           27 March 2013 at 10:59 pm

           Coal is not more deadly than asbestos.

           Ugly Truth

           Really?

           A report commissioned by the Climate Vulnerable Forum, a partnership of 20 developing countries threatened by climate change was released to the media in September 2012. The report concluded that:

           More than 100 million people will die…

           The causes of this mega-death were listed as:

           ….five million deaths occur each year from air pollution, hunger and disease as a result of climate change and carbon-intensive economies, and that toll would likely rise to six million a year by 2030 if current patterns of fossil fuel use continue.

           More than 90 percent of those deaths will occur in developing countries….

           Reuters LONDON, Sept 26, 2012

           “A combined climate-carbon crisis is estimated to claim 100 million lives between now and the end of the next decade,” the report said.
3. Ennui 3

   27 March 2013 at 7:01 am

   Yesterday lots of people here banged on with solutions to the woes of our economy etc, with traditional formulae…”.if only we printed money”….”tax companies”…”create jobs”….etc etc etc . I said game up, whose phantom cash do you wish to spend on yourself? What chimera of reality? Orlov summed it up well for me this morning…

   Quite a few people wrote to me over the past week asking about all the noise coming out of Cyprus. If you haven’t heard, there is a financial collapse that is unfolding there: banks are closed and people can’t get at their money. The Cypriot banks are insolvent. This is no surprise: all banks everywhere are insolvent, and would fail immediately were the various types of ongoing bailouts to suddenly stop. These bailouts include an ever-longer list of annoying financial jargon—liquidity injections, quantitative easing, toxic-asset-purchasing by central banks, accounting tricks such as “mark-to-fantasy,” which allows them to make bogus claims as to the value of their assets, yadda-yadda. The point is, the financial system failed in 2008, and stayed that way. The faulty formula behind all modern finance is debt raised to the power of time, and only works when there is exponential growth in economic activity and energy. Energy’s exponential growth stopped in 2005 due to resource depletion; three years later finance collapsed. Permanently. Since then we have been witnessing a global game of “extend and pretend,” which cannot be played indefinitely. If something can’t go on forever, it doesn’t.

   http://cluborlov.com/

   So who disagrees? Enjoy the cliff face or make your own plans.
   • kiwi_prometheus 3.1

     27 March 2013 at 9:22 am

     The Global Finance sector needs cleaning out – shoot some Banksters like Jamie Dimon head of JP Morgan.

     Things would improve a lot then.

     [awaiting lprent]
     • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

       27 March 2013 at 2:45 pm

       Banksters are like mafiosos. Get read of the head man and another slides right into place. Need to pull the whole thing out by the root. Put an end to the debt based monetary system.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.2

     27 March 2013 at 2:24 pm

     All money is fiat. No getting away from that and so we need rules governing it that essentially bring modern banking to an end. We may no longer have the banking sector but we will still need the economy and that’s where the government printing money comes in and even then I believe that will only be short term as, over time, we go to full democratic control of resources.

     The monetary system doesn’t work. The Great Depression, the GFC and every other recession and depression of the last two or three centuries proves that it’s just that now it’s coming to its natural end and people are seeing the absolute BS that is being done by the politicians at seemingly the demand of business to prop it up at their expense and they’re getting pissed off with it. So what we need is a valid system and a vision of how that system works that can take us away from the inherent corruption of the capitalist system. Some of us are trying to build that system and vision.
     • Ugly Truth 3.2.1

       27 March 2013 at 3:15 pm

       Not all fiat currency is the same. Bitcoin redistributes wealth in a reasonably random fashion, unlike the system used by the banksters.
     • Ennui 3.2.2

       27 March 2013 at 4:03 pm

       You are right we need to bring modern finance to an end….I suspect it will reach that point regardless. What follows who knows?

       One reassuring thing to remember is that we have endured most of human trading history where transactions were not based upon cash….we traded one thing for another, no money. We may need to get that going again, and perhaps trade social “capital” as well as good.
       • Ugly Truth 3.2.2.1

         27 March 2013 at 6:34 pm

         It will get there regardless, it’s just a question of time.
         An ideal opportunity to switch to an honourable currency.
4. mickysavage 4

   27 March 2013 at 7:39 am

   How about this load of tosh contained in DOC’s press release about the savage cuts the conservation estate is going to experience:

   The Department of Conservation (DOC) is proposing a new streamlined and outwardly focused operational structure to better position DOC for the future.

   DOC presented the new structure to staff at a series of meetings around the country today.

   Director-General Al Morrison says the new structure will maintain DOC’s own conservation delivery work while setting the department up to work more effectively with external partners.

   “DOC must adapt if it is going to meet the conservation challenges that New Zealand faces – even if you doubled DOC’s budget tomorrow we would still be going ahead with this proposal.”

   Mr Morrison says the proposal will mean changes in the way DOC is organised across the country and will involve the loss of about 140 largely regional management and administration positions.

   He says DOC will continue to operate out of the same number of offices as it currently does with more than 1200 operational staff.

   The proposal removes DOC’s existing 11 regional conservancy boundaries and replaces them with six new regions. The regions will be managed across two functions; delivering field conservation work and growing conservation through partnerships.

   He says the resulting flatter organisational structure will see the loss of about 118 management and administrative positions.

   “There will also be a reduction in 22 operational roles through efficiencies gained by setting up new support hubs for activities such as asset management, inspections and work planning.”

   Al Morrison says the proposal has been sized to ensure DOC meets its current $8.7 million savings targets and continues to meet its current delivery work.

   Mr Morrison said DOC has begun consulting with staff about the proposals and no final decisions will be taken until staff feedback has been considered.

   Mr Morrison says DOC will work with staff and their representatives on the new proposals and any changes will not take effect for some months.

   “I acknowledge this will mean a difficult period for many staff and we will be making every effort to ease the impact of these proposals.”

   Mr Morrison said DOC has had a freeze on hiring new staff and is currently holding about 160 vacancies.

   “It is simply too early to say what impact these proposals will have on individuals – we will look at all options such as redeployment and relocation to minimise redundancies.”

   If it contained any more buzzwords it would become a bee.

   I just wish that the Government would use plain English.

   This piece of fiction can be found at http://doc.govt.nz/about-doc/news/media-releases/doc-proposes-changes-to-increase-conservation/
   • JK 4.1

     27 March 2013 at 7:59 am

     I doubt there was ANYONE who believed Al Morrison DoC CEO when he spouted forth at his press conference – but maybe some people are still gullible !
   • SpaceMonkey 4.2

     27 March 2013 at 1:34 pm

     Corporate gobble-de-gook… yuk! Do you think Al Morrison actually believes what he said?
     • just saying 4.2.1

       27 March 2013 at 2:13 pm

       I knew him a little bit in previous life.
       Imo, no he doesn’t. He’s doing what he is very well-paid to do, and he is excelling in his profession – PR for whoever pays the piper.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.3

     27 March 2013 at 2:29 pm

     Decrease the resources and the manpower that an organisation has available to it and there’s no way that they will be able to do the same work especially when that organisation is as hands on as DoC. On top of that they’re cutting the administrative staff – so who’s going to actually coordinate what the people in the field are doing?

     No, this is just more of Nationals attack on the environment so as to improve the profits of their rich mates.
5. Skinny 5

   27 March 2013 at 7:41 am

   Reducing the wage gap between NZ & OZ http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10873868 was just a snake oil pitch used to gain power for National in 2008. They formed a working group on the issue and then disbanded it when the groups recommendations were released. Salt to the wound is the recent introduction of the youth rates, which will drive the wage gap wider!

   Vote these Tory barstards out!
   • infused 5.1

     27 March 2013 at 8:47 am

     At least it will get some young people in to work. Once things pick up again, then it can be changed.
     • kiwi_prometheus 5.1.1

       27 March 2013 at 9:25 am

       “At least it will get some young people in to work.”

       You mean into debt slavery/serfdom.

       [awaiting lprent]
       • infused 5.1.1.1

         27 March 2013 at 11:41 am

         You don’t sit in the job forever. My first job was at bk on youth rates… I was there 10 months and never had those rates again.

         It’s fine to start on.
         • felix 5.1.1.1.1

           27 March 2013 at 12:41 pm

           So you think it’s fine to get paid youth rates once?
         • Skinny 5.1.1.1.2

           27 March 2013 at 12:45 pm

           Ok you are a go getter & used it as a stepping stone which is great,  however many people for varies reasons don’t get  out of a low paying job.

           Like many your being fooled as youth rates put downward pressure on adult rates also. If you applied for a job & were told the paying rate was the minimum adult rate, & you queried the rate as a bit below what you were expecting. The boss can put pressure back on you by saying I was thinking of taking on a younger person…take it or leave it. If you were unemployed & claiming a benefit the new welfare changes will see your entitlement to the dole axed for refusing to take a job opportunity. 

           Did you consider things like I’ve mentioned ?  
         • millsy 5.1.1.1.3

           28 March 2013 at 2:35 am

           People need to be able to pay their rent/bills etc. Youth rates will leave a lot of people unable to cover basic living expenses.

           To endorse this is criminal. Plain and simple.
     • framu 5.1.2

       27 March 2013 at 9:52 am

       “Once things pick up again, then it can be changed.”

       do you honestly think thats going to happen?
     • Draco T Bastard 5.1.3

       27 March 2013 at 10:22 am

       At least it will get some young people in to work.

       Yeah, just like the 90 day Fire at Will bill got people into work…

       Oh, wait…
       • infused 5.1.3.1

         27 March 2013 at 11:38 am

         Well it did, actually. I hired because of it, my first employee at the time. Many of the businesses I look after have said the same.
         • framu 5.1.3.1.1

           27 March 2013 at 12:19 pm

           what was stopping you specifying a trial period pre 90 day bill?

           it was covered by legislation so completely legal and all that
           • Draco T Bastard 5.1.3.1.1.1

             27 March 2013 at 2:31 pm

             In infused case, probably ignorance.
             • McFlock …

               27 March 2013 at 3:04 pm

               Most probably, and infused would be typical of many small business owners.
               Enough nous to fill in a form, not enough to realise how to actually manage staff. So they think that trial periods are a new idea, the concept of “good faith” perplexes them, and they expect employees to carry the same risk as the manager but without the same reward.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 27 March 2013 at 3:50 pm

                 It’s bigger business owners and executives who are the main problem.

                 Think of the shift “manager” at a standard Burger King. On less than $15/hr, in charge of half a dozen or more staff.

                 It’s a sick joke.
                 • McFlock …

                   27 March 2013 at 4:18 pm

                   Let’s not argue about who sucks more.
                   They both suck – big businesses institutionalise all the abuses they can get away with, while small businesses have no idea what they are supposed to do or not do.
   • Draco T Bastard 5.2

     27 March 2013 at 10:11 am

     “I think at times people could be more hungry and more ambitious for growth and prosperity than they demonstrate – sometimes they do seem content to enjoy the lifestyle they have got rather than improve and build on it.”

     When people don’t have the resources available to make a difference because they’re all going to the rich few then they can’t actually do anything no matter how much they want to.
     • KJT 5.2.1

       27 March 2013 at 10:23 am

       Hang on. I already have the beemer and the yacht.

       Why should I spend then turn around and try and find ever more creative ways of ripping off my fellows, to make more money, when I have enough.

       I prefer to spend my time helping make sure that everyone has the same opportunities I had.
       And going sailing!
       • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1

         27 March 2013 at 2:47 pm

         Both infused and KP avoided the original point – National pretended to be serious about closing the wage gap, but it was just a rouse from the start.
6. infused 6

   27 March 2013 at 8:22 am

   Labour desperately needs to get rid of Shearer.
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     27 March 2013 at 8:27 am

     Just give him 6 (or so) more months.
     • infused 6.1.1

       27 March 2013 at 8:36 am

       Even so, would he actually step down? I don’t think so some how.
       • karol 6.1.1.1

         27 March 2013 at 8:58 am

         CV is just repeating the kind of line from Shearer’s supporters who keep saying Shearer is improving and will come good soon – with CV’s tongue firmly in his cheek.
         • infused 6.1.1.1.1

           27 March 2013 at 9:05 am

           Ah right. too early for me. Need a coffee
         • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.2

           27 March 2013 at 9:07 am

           Well, to be fair Shearer is improving in his media performances and framing. He’d be a more than capable Minister for a middling size portfolio in 2014.
           • JK 6.1.1.1.2.1

             27 March 2013 at 9:33 am

             He’s only barely improving. He looks to me like his press conferences are well rehearsed and he has to try and remember what it is he’s meant to say.
             • felix …

               27 March 2013 at 11:12 am

               He’s improved from consistently disasterous to occasionally competent.
             • infused …

               27 March 2013 at 11:40 am

               He’s better on talkback, but there’s just something about him. He sounds regressive, but it comes across really ‘try hard’. Like someone said a long time ago, he’s not being himself, and it’s obvious.

               Key does so well, because his ‘laid back’ approach is him being himself. It’s not forced like Shearer.
               • felix …

                 27 March 2013 at 12:32 pm

                 Meh dunno about that, Key always seems like he’s forcing it too.

                 Thing is everyone expects him to be a phoney salesman, so his phoney schtick just comes across as “being himself” anyway.
   • Jimmie 6.2

     27 March 2013 at 9:10 am

     So how do you save 50 million lives with one half eaten mango skin any way?
     • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1

       27 March 2013 at 10:24 am

       The standard neo-liberal way – the magical market will provide.
   • chris73 acualy is Dolan 6.3

     27 March 2013 at 9:20 am

     No they don’t, they need to keep him where he is. I’d also suggest promoting T. Mallard and C. Curran and give them as much air time as possible.
     • SpaceMonkey 6.3.1

       27 March 2013 at 1:41 pm

       I’ve maintained for a while that Labour (since 1984) is National’s natural coalition partner… perhaps Labour is doing what it has to to ensure National return to power in 2014? Damn… should’ve seen it earlier!
7. Bob Tambling 7

   27 March 2013 at 8:38 am

   Labour has had 54 months and counting…….
8. chris73 acualy is Dolan 8

   27 March 2013 at 9:51 am

   http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/features/top-story/stories/state-500-reward-turning-illegal-gun-owners-7024.shtml

   Think this could happen here?
   • McFlock 8.1

     27 March 2013 at 1:05 pm

     nah, not really needed here. Lots of NZers report criminals with no expectation of reward.
9. Pete 9

   27 March 2013 at 10:00 am

   It was good to hear this morning that the government has thrown the Ombudsman a bone with funding for 6 new lawyers. Of course, it would be cheaper if organisations were a bit more open with information.
   • Rogue Trooper 9.1

     27 March 2013 at 11:52 am

     yep. they gotta recruit them now; overwhelmed with a backlog of files.
10. Draco T Bastard 10

    27 March 2013 at 10:04 am

    Corporate manslaughter Bill already on the cards

    In large and complex organisations it’s easy for large numbers of people to be involved in a negligently run project with no one person left holding the smoking gun.

    Surely if large numbers are involved then large numbers need to be held accountable. Yes, some will be more accountable than others but everyone involved in a project that causes death needs to be held responsible.
    • SpaceMonkey 10.1

      27 March 2013 at 1:45 pm

      DTB… You’re mixing up responsibility and accountability. Accountability lies at the top… the CEO and/or Board (or Minister with Government bodies). Responsibility can be shared.
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    27 March 2013 at 10:06 am

    And more mining on conservation land:-

    The Government said yesterday that it was putting 8261 square kilometres of land up for tender to gold prospectors later this year, and had already begun consulting local iwi and councils.

    Failed to consult the people though.
    • marty mars 11.1

      27 March 2013 at 1:01 pm

      umm iwi are comprised of people too

      but you are correct in that the consultation with iwi is a sham much like the approach used in yesteryear

      http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/killing-me-softly-with-his-song.html
      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 7:18 pm

        The way I read it was that they asked the iwi leaders and the councils but didn’t even think of asking the people.
        • marty mars 11.1.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 7:39 pm

          perhaps iwi leaders who might agree with them I suspect. Sorry didn’t mean to be pedantic.
          • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 11:08 pm

            If it shifts us that bit closer to understanding then it’s not a prob.
12. Tom 12

    27 March 2013 at 10:34 am

    Ah, I thought it came from the Shearer faction.

    I gather that the use of the rack is now being officially discouraged.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/expanding-guantanamo/5328583

    A penal colony on an outlying island near an Australian refugee camp, perhaps – without an internet connection ?

    Don’t laugh, someone is bound to take it seriously.

    [lprent: Off topic – moved to OpenMike. ]
13. Pascal's bookie 13

    27 March 2013 at 11:08 am

    What do you reckon conspiracy theorists?

    http://beforeitsnews.com/strange/2013/03/5-mississippi-lawmakers-die-in-months-pro-agenda-21-legislator-jessica-upshaw-found-dead-of-gunshot-wound-2447982.html

    I reckon it’s a bunch of bullshit myself, but still more likely than all ya’ll ‘spree shooter was a false flag’ malarky.
    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      27 March 2013 at 11:29 am

      The 38 year old state prosecutor pressing investigating charges against the 2002 Venezuelan coup leaders was killed by a remote controlled car bomb in 2004.

      Due to the nature of the death you can’t run your skeptics ‘tin foil hat’ argument, in that particular case.

      A few days ago, the chief of Colorado’s prison system was shot dead as he opened his front door. Nothing was taken from his body.

      There are lots of ways to send political messages, some of them not very nice at all. With very highly skilled people well trained and available to take such actions. And they are used.
      • Pascal's bookie 13.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 12:04 pm

        So?
    • Colonial Weka 13.2

      27 March 2013 at 12:11 pm

      Would make a good movie.
    • Ugly Truth 13.3

      27 March 2013 at 6:40 pm

      Sandy Hook malarky?!? Is that your name for when the coroner and the judiciary suppress information and standard procedures for a mass casualty incident are disregarded? Or does it describe the appearance of the response units before the initial shooting takes place?
      • Pascal's bookie 13.3.1

        27 March 2013 at 6:48 pm

        Yeah, that’s the one.

        But what do you think of the thing I linked to?
    • pollywog 13.4

      27 March 2013 at 7:06 pm

      The selection and arrangement of experts by corporate media guarantees a continued monopoly on “truth,” particularly when presented to an uninquisitive and politically dormant public. Yet this phenomenon extends to ostensibly more trustworthy media outlets such as public broadcasting, where a heightened utilization of credentialed expertise is required to ensure the consensus of those who perceive themselves as more refined than the Average Joe…

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/false-flags-fake-media-reporting-deceiving-the-public-social-engineering-and-the-21st-century-truth-emergency/5325982

      
14. chris73 acualy is Dolan 14

    27 March 2013 at 11:50 am

    You’ll like this…maybe

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/03/so-who-are-the-notorious-bloggers-then/
    • lprent 14.1

      27 March 2013 at 12:21 pm

      The net is an ever shifting place with a lot of sites that we have links to and a ever changing set of “problem site” references. Hell I have seen the Granny come up on one of those blockers.

      There are several reasons that could be happening. A likely reason is that the block is manual and they put sites with a lot of traffic on it and few people in NZ actually read Whaleoil (and they do read KB and TS). From the type of content he has been posting recently, it appears to be mostly orientated towards picking up international page views and visitors. It is what you do when you want to drive ad revenue.

      However, in this case I suspect it is a differnet cause. Google sitemaps last week informed me of a problem on an early post from 2007 that had a iframe in it linking to wp-stats.com page that has recently been tagged for having malware on it. The iframe looks like some kind of mistake in a plugin dropping into the post. But I scanned the database for the entire rest of the site and didn’t find another iframe apart from some old youtude and vimeo embedds. Was fixed on the weekend.

      It will now take some time to clear out of all of the reference sites that read off google’s problem post list.
      • chris73 acualy is Dolan 14.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 12:25 pm

        A likely reason is that the block is manual and they put sites with a lot of traffic on it and few people in NZ actually read Whaleoil.

        – Lol
        • felix 14.1.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 12:39 pm

          Well, there are a couple of alternative possibilities.

          One is that Cameron’s blog is considered less offensive than thestandard or kiwiblog. Another is that Cameron likes to play silly games by making complaints about other blogs.

          But clearly both of those are absurd.
          • chris73 acualy is Dolan 14.1.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 12:42 pm

            One is that Cameron’s blog is considered less offensive than thestandard…might be onto something there
            • lprent 14.1.1.1.1.1

              27 March 2013 at 1:01 pm

              Few if any of the blockers consider complaints about content apart from malware any more because of silly buggers complaining. The only ones that do are the ones that cater for kiddie blockers or corporate download issues like porn or traffic volumes – and they all do their own checks before they believe a complaint.

              As childish as I find Whaleoil to be, it is unlikely he would pass a kiddie site filter.

              We don’t have porn and the only way that we’d cause traffic problems is with obsessive reading because we don’t have much on download.

              So I think you’re deluding yourself. It is most likely the malware link that google found in a 5 and a half year old post. It wouldn’t surprise me if Kiwiblog has the same kind of issue. WP_stats was around and used by many sites because it gave some good stats on who wrote comments.
            • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1.1.2

              27 March 2013 at 1:23 pm

              Less offensive to RWNJs, perhaps.
            • felix 14.1.1.1.1.3

              27 March 2013 at 2:12 pm

              “One is that Cameron’s blog is considered less offensive than thestandard…might be onto something there”

              Only if you’re not offended by sexism, racism, homophobia, and religious intolerance.

              But apart from that, yeah probably.
              • chris73 acualy is Dolan …

                27 March 2013 at 3:25 pm

                As opposed to occasional threats of violence you get on here…
                • felix …

                  27 March 2013 at 3:30 pm

                  Occasional, yes, and usually jumped on by other commenters or mods, compared to the near constant threats of violence at Cameron’s site which are such a normalised part of the culture there that you probably don’t even see it anymore.
                  • Chris73 …

                    27 March 2013 at 4:33 pm

                    I can quite easily say there are more realistic threats of violence and abuse on this site in comparison to whaleoil

                    However on this site threats of violence are condoned and justified, if they’re from the left.

                    “Hes passionate” or blaming the govt is a good one “what do you expect the reaction to be when the govt does…”
                    • lprent …

                      27 March 2013 at 4:42 pm

                      However on this site threats of violence are condoned and justified, if they’re from the left.

                      Link to example comments where a threat of violence has been issued… And please these have to be actual threats of violence. I’m afraid that being called a dickhead doesn’t qualify.

                      I suspect that you are confusing it with abuse (as in your first paragraph) which isn’t controlled apart from “pointless abuse” which has a specific meaning in the policy and attacking authors which is also in the policy. The rules for left or right are exactly the same – there is no cordoning.

                      The only real difference between how people are treated by moderators is a question of repeated behaviour and previous good behaviour. Basically if you’re a newbie on site or have a history of causing us to warn or ban you, then your probability of getting abrupt or harsh treatment goes up a lot. Newbies to a site should always learn the rules of the site, and wasting moderator time makes us grumpy – both forewarned in the policy.

                      r0b is pretty damn clear on what he considers to be threats and deals with them abruptly, as do I if I see them. They seem to have disappeared since he started banning heavily for uttering them.
                    • The Al1en …

                      27 March 2013 at 4:47 pm

                      You’re a bit of a knob, Chris.
                      What threats have you seen here that made you fear for your own or the safety of someone else?

                      Surely an ex boot camp, toy soldier like you should be looking right past piddle on the internet.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      27 March 2013 at 5:05 pm

                      Although it seems odd to me that the economic violence of throwing whole families out of their homes into the street, destroying peoples dignities and self respect, doesn’t count to the Right as being “violence”.
                    • Murray Olsen …

                      27 March 2013 at 10:23 pm

                      You’re absolutely deluded. WhaleSpew is full of exhortations to violence, gutshots, police dogs to be used on protestors, anal rape for prisoners, police to use Glocks on almost everyone……….
                      Not to mention the great grub himself carrying on about how physically tough he is, which he proves by calling ten year olds dumb.
                      The fact that they’re just masturbatory fantasies by net jockeys doesn’t make them any less offensive.
                      I can’t remember seeing anything remotely comparable here.
15. joe90 15

    27 March 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Some sanity?.

    http://crookedtimber.org/2013/03/19/economists-and-the-theory-of-politics/

    abstract:

    The standard approach to policymaking and advice in economics implicitly or explicitly ignores politics and political economy, and maintains that if possible, any market failure should be rapidly removed. This essay explains why this conclusion may be incorrect; because it ignores politics, this approach is oblivious to the impact of the removal of market failures on future political equilibria and economic efficiency, which can be deleterious. We outline a simple framework for the study of the impact of current economic policies on future political equilibria — and indirectly on future economic outcomes. We then illustrate the mechanisms through which such impacts might operate using a series of examples. The main message is that sound economic policy should be based on a careful analysis of political economy and should factor in its influence on future political equilibria.
    • rosy 15.1

      27 March 2013 at 10:58 pm

      Interesting. I’m reading their book Why Nations Fail at the moment. I’m only a couple of chapters in, and it seems like they’re economists who are trying to save their academic discipline from irrelevance as a social science by throwing in a theory of politics to bolster it. They have huge dislike of the imbalance of power and opportunities for greed in extractive regimes.

      So far I’ve been thinking that if they’re going to go down that road they can only but become more left wing in their thinking. Good to see that might be the case. Unions would fit their theory because it’s all about the strength and balance of institutions in holding back the exploiters – and they’re right in that traditional economics doesn’t deal with this very well.
16. Rogue Trooper 16

    27 March 2013 at 12:07 pm

    “Housing shortages in ChCh, yet commercial construction permits up.”

    RNZ- Sexual assault convictions have risen by 30% over last 5 years. (Collins reckons this is due to increased reporting based on increased confidence in police process.) Yet, only 10% of victims report such assaults to police.

    According to “award-winning” MSM columnist Eva Bradley, the new fashion trend for young women is “Skank” and today I read an editorial that identifies the “thigh gap” as the new “must have” body image requirement of young women keeping up with the Kardashians. *sigh*.

    …same as it ever was…same as it ever was…watching the days go by…Once In A Lifetime…water flowing underground (read today that the underground gas they want to extract round these here parts is often so close to the aquifiers that a lighted match near a flowing water tap can produce a glow.
    *Sigh #2*
17. Pascal's bookie 17

    27 March 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Here’s acool thying on the gun control debate that some have been talking about:

    http://www.cracked.com/article_20396_5-mind-blowing-facts-nobody-told-you-about-guns.html

    Yeah, Cracked magazine, but yeah, it’s good.
    • marty mars 17.1

      27 March 2013 at 1:43 pm

      That was very good – thanks Pb

      Loved these lines, “This is what people who aren’t from America, or who grew up somewhere like Portland or whatever, don’t get: America’s love of guns in most cases has nothing to do with actually using them. It’s all about what they symbolize. And what they symbolize is God, and cocks.”
    • chris73 acualy is Dolan 17.2

      27 March 2013 at 3:44 pm

      Some interesting points, especially how overall gun deaths are down and dropping.
      • Pascal's bookie 17.2.1

        27 March 2013 at 4:53 pm

        laugh.

        Dunno why’d you’d find that to be the especially interesting part. Haven’t you been banging on about that all week?

        What did you think about the ads that pretty clearly show that the target market has insecurities in the penis related area?

        Or the fact that owning a gun is the biggest risk factor for suicide?
        • McFlock 17.2.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 5:08 pm

          The other thing I found fascinating was the gas oven and bridge barriers thing. Delay the impulse fulfilment by a few seconds or minutes, and they don’t usually make another attempt.
          • marty mars 17.2.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 6:18 pm

            and that stuff about the spree-shooters really dispelled the old ‘false flag’ bullshit I thought
            • muzza 17.2.1.1.1.1

              27 March 2013 at 8:30 pm

              Why did you think that Marty ?
              • marty mars …

                28 March 2013 at 9:49 am

                the analysis of the columbine shooters fitted with what I think the situation is – that they are either mad, bad or sad rather than employed by a quasi-government department to sow seeds of panic and wreck destruction on innocent people
18. veutoviper 18

    27 March 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Parliament today

    Question time a debacle with the Speaker’s performance abysmal, resulting in Mallard and Hipkins having to leave.

    And now Judith Collins in General Debate has just referred to Eddie’s post on the internal Labour Caucus positions. And tried to ‘out’ Eddie as being a female who works for the EPMU….
    • ianmac 18.1

      27 March 2013 at 3:20 pm

      The Virulent Judith Collins had a field day after Question Time, leaning heavily on Eddie’s homework which fitted in so well with the National Agenda. Saved Judith Collins a lot of work. Well done Eddie.
      • karol 18.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 3:28 pm

        The buck stops with Team Shearer, because of mismanagement of the caucus.

        PS: As for Collins, which National faction does she lead again, and who is in her faction?
        • ghostrider888 18.1.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 3:39 pm

          yes, QT was a joke indeed;
          talk about a “spinning top”; That Speaker is turning the House into a farce Indeed, in front of the “international guests” he referred to; nothing like the children playing up in front of invited company! (put me off me Merlot Pinotage it did).
          Collins calls “Mr Robinson” (a slip methinks), and then the TS ammo; oh well, interesting to establish the link between the “woman” Eddie, the EPMU and Little. *sigh*; even the normally composed Metiria shook her head…

          still, try to remember, Lest We Forget (John), NZ’s International Liabilities as a % of GDP, with the government / public component increasing under National.

          The Ghost Rider does enjoy that Michael Woodhouse though…
        • veutoviper 18.1.1.2

          27 March 2013 at 3:39 pm

          +1 Karol.
        • chris73 acualy is Dolan 18.1.1.3

          27 March 2013 at 3:45 pm

          Hopefully she’ll be the next leader of National (and of course the country)
          • millsy 18.1.1.3.1

            28 March 2013 at 2:30 am

            The last thing we need is a poor man’s Maggie Thatcher.
      • marty mars 18.1.2

        27 March 2013 at 3:51 pm

        Come on ian – all the labour mp’s had to do was issue individual, or a collective press release detailing that they weren’t in the faction described or that there were in fact no factions, or different ones, and the whole thing would have stayed as a molehill and not be used against them – sheesh mate political knife-fighting 101.
        • McFlock 18.1.2.1

          27 March 2013 at 4:07 pm

          I dunno.

          A collective press release in denial gives Eddie’s post the credibility of having to be denied.

          Personally I might have gone more for the “If the minister believes everything she reads on the internet, how much money does her department spend on tinfoil hats?” response.
          • marty mars 18.1.2.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 4:20 pm

            I was being facetious but good point you making are.

            btw – have you and rhino sorted it out yet I haven’t been over to that thread to check yet.
            • McFlock 18.1.2.1.1.1

              27 March 2013 at 4:40 pm

              Ah. lol

              re:rhino – Nah. S/he’s probably busy at work or something. I kind’ve figured if we didn’t sort it there the months-old argument would be rehashed somewhere else. Apologies to Eddie – between Collins crowing and us two, their analysis has been detracted from, imo. Even if the names of members and some of the labels might be widened, it’s probably a fair reflection of the policy/personality pressures within labour and other left wing parties.

              I suspect national is a more complex beast of patronage and rural/urban pressures.
      • Murray Olsen 18.1.3

        27 March 2013 at 10:31 pm

        Oh please, if Labour sorted itself out and got a decent leader Eddie wouldn’t have written his piece. The presence of Shearer, Mallard, and others at the top of the party is what saves Collins a lot of work, not anything written here.
        • Colonial Viper 18.1.3.1

          27 March 2013 at 10:35 pm

          With this comment you have clearly proven that you are a Priest at the Temple of Cunliffe.
          • Murray Olsen 18.1.3.1.1

            28 March 2013 at 2:07 am

            I’m even Facebook friends with him, but I’m glad to see your idea of proof is at least consistent.
            I imagine the following scenario: if Mana and the Greens both won 20 seats, who on Eddie’s list would be prepared to form a coalition with National in the interests of “national unity”? I’m pretty sure Cunliffe wouldn’t be. For all his attachment to tinkering with capitalism, I think he believes he can tinker with it in favour of the workers. Most of them see their mission as tinkering with the workers in the interests of capitalism.
      • Elizabeth Bourchier 18.1.4

        27 March 2013 at 10:41 pm

        Everything would be rosy for Labour if only The Standard was like Red Alert!
        Is that it ianmac?
        We would not be at the same level in the polls, for th past 5 years, were it not for The Standard?
        We would have a united and motivated party if only those Standinistas went back to the Alliance Party?
        Is that it ianmac?
        Shearer would have broad support and be widely respected if only LPrent was more like Mike Smith?
        Is that it ianmac?
19. chris73 acualy is Dolan 19

    27 March 2013 at 3:34 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10873858

    Seems private run prisons aren’t so bad after all…
    • Draco T Bastard 19.1

      27 March 2013 at 6:26 pm

      http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=private+prison

      After reading that article I’d take what was said with a truck load of salt.
    • millsy 19.2

      28 March 2013 at 2:33 am

      So you reckon they should privatise the army? Perhaps the police?
20. ghostrider888 20

    27 March 2013 at 3:42 pm

    oh, and don’t forget the NZLast MP reminding us of the Morning Report on sex-work in South Auckland; 13 years of age and Six Hundy a night (at least some family member or associate ain’t riding for free). and, and, she helpfully pointed out that 30% of Auckland sex-workers are Chinese; you don’t say! Yummy!
21. felix 21

    27 March 2013 at 3:54 pm

    The last 11 mins of question time today in which Speaker Carter loses his rag: http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/17831
    • Chris73 21.1

      27 March 2013 at 4:16 pm

      Andrew Little is an angry little man
      • felix 21.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 4:25 pm

        Yep. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong though.

        Carter is thick as pigshit, wrong about everything, and an angry little man.
        • Chris73 21.1.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 4:35 pm

          Judith Collins has something though…
          • ghostrider888 21.1.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 4:37 pm

            yeah, a comb-over her forehead.(though definite in Black and White)
          • McFlock 21.1.1.1.2

            27 March 2013 at 4:49 pm

            Really? What?

            Lifetime membership to the Dark Side?
            A soul so tarnished she’d be rejected by hell?
            A letter from “A. H. in Argentina” suggesting she “chillax a bit, it’s nicht worth it, ja?”
            Actual skeletons in the closet?
            • ghostrider888 21.1.1.1.2.1

              27 March 2013 at 4:52 pm

              Love It Flockie (whats with you and Rhinocrates; jest or joust? clear that you both have Very fast minds, though I haven’t bothered “clocking” the comments)
          • Pascal's bookie 21.1.1.1.3

            27 March 2013 at 4:55 pm

            Judith Collins has something though…

            yep. An empty place where her apology and retraction from Mallard and Little was supposed to be.
            • Chris73 21.1.1.1.3.1

              27 March 2013 at 5:14 pm

              A certain je ne sais quoi, her husbands a lucky man…
              • fender …

                27 March 2013 at 5:23 pm

                “… her husbands a lucky man…”

                He will be the guy with all the bruises.
              • North …

                27 March 2013 at 6:44 pm

                It’s not only Collins as to whom/which you don’t know stuff Chris but really, that comment is offensive. Were I her husband, and I presume she retains the one she had years ago, (big burly Polynesian ex-cop turned lawyer and a genuinely decent man), I’d be pissed off !

                In light of your nonsense about threats of violence on TS you’d better not tell us that you’d kill for a piece of the likes of her.

                In that case Chris, and according to your own “standards” (lol), I’d have to denounce you not only as a sex beast but also as a violent sex beast.

                .
          • fender 21.1.1.1.4

            27 March 2013 at 5:21 pm

            Yeah she would have the same infections that other sewer rats carry.

            Is she Slaters mother?
          • pollywog 21.1.1.1.5

            27 March 2013 at 7:14 pm

            A front bum where her cock should be is what I imagine JT would say.
22. ghostrider888 22

    27 March 2013 at 4:49 pm

    furthermore, if that is a demonstration of the political “class” in this country, might as well start hewing rice terraces into Kahuranaki now, oh wait, not enough water; Beaujolais anyone?
23. Chris73 23

    27 March 2013 at 5:12 pm

    The Al1en …
    27 March 2013 at 4:47 pm

    You’re a bit of a knob, Chris.
    What threats have you seen here that made you fear for your own or the safety of someone else?

    Surely an ex boot camp, toy soldier like you should be looking right past piddle on the internet.

    You’re a bit of a bell-end, The Allen.

    Nowhere did I say I was worried about the safety of myself or others however to back up my point about threats on this site

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02032013/#comment-598141

    “If you tried to sack me for joining a union I would kick the shit out of you where you stand, And I would take plesuare in it”

    “Do you want to Americanise heath care. I am warning you, I will come for you if you do. I will come for you. I will kick the shit out of you 10 times over you mean nasty horrible person. All those poor and working people and unionists you denigrate will cheer me on and probably join in.”

    “The best thing to happen to Thatcher is for a gunman to splatter her brains over the 10 Downing Street door.”

    “Pity those IRA guys didnt succed is blowing her to bits. Would have saved a lot of UKers from the misery you wanted imposed on them.”

    “Addison, if you even think about banning unions and Americanising our health care, I will, come for you.”

    “You nasty fascist cunt. You should have your head kicked in for that.”

    “Im sick of people who want to lock up unionists and bring back slavery. They derserve to be strung up with piano wire”

    Probably more but thats probably enough to get my point across. I will concede it was from one person, though some people agreed with him (and others didn’t)

    [lprent: Is that what you describe as ‘condoning’ – pointing to a single commentator who regularly gets warnings and has spent extended periods banned for it. I notice that you skipped the dates and links. Probably because having someone sprouting crap with weeks or months between (often because they are banned) instances doesn’t exactly follow your thesis.

    FFS are you really so stupid that you can’t recognize yourself sprouting a myth? Silly nutters standing around telling each other tales and never bothering to check. ]
    • Chris73 23.1

      27 March 2013 at 5:24 pm

      Sorry I missed this link as well

      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/01/hate-mongering.html
    • marty mars 23.2

      27 March 2013 at 5:31 pm

      we all know millsy is over the top, down the hill, and up the other side but that is just bigbad talk which I’m sure you’ve heard enough of over the years – hardly credible enough for you to say, “I can quite easily say there are more realistic threats of violence and abuse on this site in comparison to whaleoil” – that statement is just not true.

      btw – there have been a lot more piano wire ones which is weird because keyboards are the rage and have been for a while now.
      • Chris73 23.2.1

        27 March 2013 at 5:40 pm

        Well that maybe but his views are tolerated if not down right encouraged.
        • felix 23.2.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 6:20 pm

          Bullshit chris, he regularly gets banned for those sort of comments.

          On Cameron’s site they would be so commonplace as to go unnoticed.
          • felix 23.2.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 6:34 pm

            In fact lol of lols, the very comments you quoted got him banned.

            And you linked to it you fucking numpty. Do not pass go do not collect $200.
    • fender 23.3

      27 March 2013 at 5:35 pm

      I find your wet dream fantasies of Collins as PM far more offensive.

      Why don’t you go chat with the mirror some more or go back home to whalespew.
      • Chris73 23.3.1

        27 March 2013 at 5:50 pm

        You have every right to be offended as I have every right to state what I feel. What a great society we live in that we can have differing views aired out in public.
        • fender 23.3.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 6:42 pm

          ” What a great society we live in that we can have differing views aired out in public.”

          Collins will put an end to that.
          • BM 23.3.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 6:49 pm

            Attractive woman that Collins.
            She could whip me any day.
            • felix 23.3.1.1.1.1

              27 March 2013 at 6:54 pm

              Hey look, chris – offensive bullshit.
            • fender 23.3.1.1.1.2

              27 March 2013 at 7:02 pm

              B(DS)M,

              Attractiveness comes from within, Collins is full of highly toxic pus.
              • Colonial Viper …

                27 March 2013 at 8:43 pm

                Unsweetened cranberry juice.
    • BM 23.4

      27 March 2013 at 5:59 pm

      Millsy, ha,ha he’d be as weak as old woman wees.
      If you got in his face, I’m betting he’d piss his pants.

      I saw a picture of him on the interwebs, he’s a chubby four eyed chappie, couldn’t intimidate a mouse if he tried.
      • Chris73 23.4.1

        27 March 2013 at 6:10 pm

        I sort of know him in real life (kind of) or rather people who know me also know him…sort of, which is why he doesn’t try to threaten me.
        • fender 23.4.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 7:21 pm

          “….which is why he doesn’t try to threaten me.”

          This is also a threat, subtle but a threat nevertheless.
          • marty mars 23.4.1.1.1

            27 March 2013 at 7:32 pm

            So you unprompted, linked to comments from someone you think you know and who has not threatened you, to show how there are lots of threats on this site – that’s called a fail chris.
        • millsy 23.4.1.2

          28 March 2013 at 1:57 am

          Years ago Chris — on another internet forum.
    • The Al1en 23.5

      27 March 2013 at 6:10 pm

      “You’re a bit of a bell-end, The Allen.”

      Been called worse, but go on…

      “Nowhere did I say I was worried about the safety of myself or others however to back up my point about threats on this site”

      So you’re having a little cry about nothing. Those threats you allude to, that you aren’t really worried about, can’t be that bad then.

      Those ‘threats’ you quote, apart from number two and five, which are a bit weird = no problem.
      • Chris73 23.5.1

        27 March 2013 at 6:52 pm

        Merely pointing out why, and with examples, this site is as bad as and sometimes worse than whaleoils (yes I realize I’m speaking heresy)

        [lprent: I would described it as simple lying myself. But I guess you came directly from Whale so I guess we could be generous and just describe as stupid gullibility of someone listening to a congenital liar. Just look at who he has asserted our authors are in real life.. ]
        • felix 23.5.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 6:57 pm

          No, you’re speaking bullshit.

          You haven’t yet pointed to anything that would even stand out on Cameron’s site. And the examples you did point to got the commenter banned.
        • The Al1en 23.5.1.2

          27 March 2013 at 7:31 pm

          ” (yes I realize I’m speaking heresy)”

          Felix has already marked your card.

          “Merely pointing out why, and with examples, this site is as bad as and sometimes worse than whaleoils”

          No, you’re not, and just like most soldiers, you’re still a tool.
          • Chris73 23.5.1.2.1

            27 March 2013 at 7:39 pm

            Tools are useful, are you?
            • The Al1en 23.5.1.2.1.1

              27 March 2013 at 7:49 pm

              “Tools are useful”

              Depends on how one imparts values on a tool.
              You believe they are useful, where as I’d have written they have a use. Almost the same, but not quite.

              Trust me, mr conditioned, you can let your belly and chest flop out and down now, and you don’t have to polish your shoes until you see your twin heads in them all stood to attention.

              “are you?”

              That all depends on how you’re defining useful.
24. ghostrider888 24

    27 March 2013 at 5:48 pm

    stuff you don’t read on Stuff
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/26/north-korea-combat-mode-targets-us
    Eurozone, becoming a “zombie zone”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/26/europes-flesheaters-threaten-to-devour-all
    Return of The Reich (a “German Europe”)
    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/3/27/economy/crisis-and-making-german-europe
    (schnitzel anyone?)
    • GregJ 24.1

      27 March 2013 at 7:51 pm

      The France 24 Debate a few days ago had a commentator (Thomas Klau – Head of the Paris Bureau, European Council on Foreign Relations) who made similar points about Germany’s role in the Eurozone crisis as the last of your links. One comment he made really caught my attention – that for historic reasons a Europe perceived as having the authority for Eurozone issues looking like they are coming out of Berlin was not a good things for Europe or for Germany!

      His view was that the issue for the Eurozone is that there is no Government body directly answerable to the citizenry – as he expressed it “someone electable, who is then ejectable”. It means it makes decisions on things like the Cyrus bailout look like it is being made by bureaucrats behind closed doors and citizens have no recourse to hold them accountable.

      I like a lot of what Costas Lapavitsas was saying though – really challenging the orthodoxy of the “solutions” to this Global Depression.

      As an aside I prefer France 24 (in English – my French isn’t good enough!) to any of the other cable news providers – including BBC and Al Jazeera. They give a different perspective from the usual suspects.
      • Colonial Viper 24.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 8:50 pm

        It means it makes decisions on things like the Cyrus bailout look like it is being made by central banker nominated Goldman Sachs alumni behind closed doors and citizens have no recourse to hold them accountable.

        Edited for clarity
        • GregJ 24.1.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 9:03 pm

          Indeed!
      • xtasy 24.1.2

        27 March 2013 at 11:25 pm

        I am getting a bit sick of the Berlin and Germany focus of the blame to be laid for Cyprus, Spain, Greece, Italy and so forth. It was a problem with the way the common Euro currency was designed and introduced, not something that happened in Germany that brought it all about. Others assented and agreed, and the Greeks were overly keen to join.

        So this is crap populism, especially comparing Merkel with Hitler and stuff. Hey, get some real info and learn what really happened, perhaps. I do not hit out at you as commenter, but the media and others are blind on one eye.

        Every country involved made mistakes and has to carry some shit.

        It is disgusting to blame Germany for every thing.
        • Colonial Viper 24.1.2.1

          27 March 2013 at 11:37 pm

          All debt is subordinate primarily to German creditors. Including French, Italian, Greek, Spanish debt.

          Don’t think that this is by accident, or that Germany has not been exporting its manufacturing unemployment to other countries using the Eurozone as a mechanism.

          Also notice that Merkel is pushing the hardline on Eurozone defaulters…because she has elections to face in a few months.

          It was a problem with the way the common Euro currency was designed and introduced, not something that happened in Germany that brought it all about. Others assented and agreed, and the Greeks were overly keen to join.

          Yes, this has been a phenomenon which has come from the Eurozone’s intrinsic design. A design which said that capital could move freely across every border, and where sovereign governments no longer had any say over the value of their own currency. The engineering firms of Greece had to compete on the same terms as the engineering firms of Germany. Guess who the loser in such a fight was.

          Yes, the governments of these countries got short term highs from voluntarily signing up to the Eurozone. But its the ordinary people of those same countries suddenly realising that they’ve had to wake up with very bad hangovers. Where are the leaders who originally signed their peoples up to this pact? Staying very quiet and out of the way, I notice.
          • xtasy 24.1.2.1.1

            29 March 2013 at 3:13 am

            “All debt is subordinate primarily to German creditors. Including French, Italian, Greek, Spanish debt.”

            Sorry, CV, the European banking network and the interwoven creditor and debtor dependencies are actually quite a bit more complex and diverse than what you imply here.

            Like the French banks have a lot more in Greek and Spanish bonds on their books than German banks. And while some banks in Spain are rotten and about to fold, others are still fairly stable and healthy.

            It was not some evil design that came out of Berlin, and there are not secret string pullers in Berlin, that hold Europe to ransom. I agree that Merkel has a fair bit to answer to, and there are other politicians in Germany, especially in the opposition SPD and Green parties, that follow a different approach to Merkel and her government, which is more in line with what Hollande in France may also wish to follow.

            I was thinking of the average man and woman in the streets of Nikosia, Athens or Madrid or Rome, holding up pictures of Merkel with a swastika on her chest. That is stupid ignorant populism there. And it must be accepted that certain governments in Greece and Italy especially have some responsibility for the present situation. Berlusconi gave tax cuts to his supporters and let the finances stay too much in the red at the same time.

            Now is the NZ government not doing something similar at present?
          • xtasy 24.1.2.1.2

            29 March 2013 at 3:22 am

            “Yes, this has been a phenomenon which has come from the Eurozone’s intrinsic design. A design which said that capital could move freely across every border, and where sovereign governments no longer had any say over the value of their own currency. The engineering firms of Greece had to compete on the same terms as the engineering firms of Germany.”

            As for the Euro, it ran into trouble (once the GFC sped up the process) due to every country in the Eurozone and EU still running their own finance, taxation, social, internal economic and other differing regulatory systems.

            One currency necessitates to also introduce the same fiscal and some other policies (primarily economic) to make the one currency system function.

            Allowing different countries to follow different policies in such areas, and also having very differing economic and social realities to face, yet take advantage of the same low interest rates to take up credit, this led to distortions, which now have come back to bite in certain countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal and increasingly Italy. Cyprus is a special case, and it stuffed up due to some exposure to the Greek banking system, also having attracted deposits from other foreign sources, by running a banking system inviting tax evaders from Russia and so forth.

            You cannot have one common economic zone and especially not one common currency, and at the same time quite different taxation, fiscal, economic and other policies in member countries.
25. Draco T Bastard 25

    27 March 2013 at 6:31 pm

    Marx’s Revenge: How Class Struggle Is Shaping the World

    “Accumulation of wealth at one pole is at the same time accumulation of misery, agony of toil, slavery, ignorance, brutality, mental degradation, at the opposite pole,” Marx wrote.

    A growing dossier of evidence suggests that he may have been right. It is sadly all too easy to find statistics that show the rich are getting richer while the middle class and poor are not. A September study from the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) in Washington noted that the median annual earnings of a full-time, male worker in the U.S. in 2011, at $48,202, were smaller than in 1973. Between 1983 and 2010, 74% of the gains in wealth in the U.S. went to the richest 5%, while the bottom 60% suffered a decline, the EPI calculated. No wonder some have given the 19th century German philosopher a second look. In China, the Marxist country that turned its back on Marx, Yu Rongjun was inspired by world events to pen a musical based on Marx’s classic Das Kapital. “You can find reality matches what is described in the book,” says the playwright.

    The evidence grows daily – Marx was right about capitalism.
    • just saying 25.1

      27 March 2013 at 8:00 pm

      This raises an important point. Thirty-five percent, mainly the upper middle class have been improving their lot. That’s quite a big chunk of the middle class with a vested interest in the status quo. Often these people are richer than they could have imagined themselves to be. There are a disproprtionate number of baby boomers in this statistic.

      And most will fight for every last designer kitchen fitting.
      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        27 March 2013 at 8:27 pm

        We also might need to start talking households, not voters, when it comes to political economic income brackets (which is what you might have done above? Top 35% of households probably have an annual income of $85K and up).

        For instance, if I earn fuck all income but my corporate exec spouse pulls in an income in the high $200K range. I’m going to be counted in the bottom 10% of earners (sub $15K pa). But I’m not going to be struggling in poverty and the people I socialise with are not going to be unwashed losers. My voting patterns will be influenced accordingly.
        • just saying 25.1.1.1

          27 March 2013 at 10:39 pm

          That’s a very good point CV. There are a lot of wealthy people with partners earning a huge whack, but whose household income is no reflection of the comparative ‘pin money’ they bring in themselves. Their own personal income may be going backwards but their household income is steaming ahead.

          I’m often struck by the relatively large numbers of people who live very comfortably – huge houses, flash baches, overseas hols etc., and I’ve been puzzled about why their numbers aren’t entirely reflected in income stats.
26. Draco T Bastard 26

    27 March 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Would you take the test?

    Next time you hear elected officials or advocates say they want more tests, ask them if they are willing to take the high school graduation test themselves.

    And NACT are following this prescription.
27. North 27

    27 March 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Anyone note the gliding swagger of Commissioner of Police Marshall on 3 News tonight, in the lift lobby of the Beehive I think. Bedecked in more fruit salad than a Jakarta hotel carpark attendant !

    Refusing to comment on the appallingly grave miscarriage of justice in the Teina Pora case. When asked whether he would resign were the obvious to be exposed there was the hint of a Freudian stammer. In unmistakeable contrast to the glide. The Teina Pora case is huge and he clearly knows it.

    But, the underlying morality betrayed by the stammer was quickly rectified by the crushed car vixen Madame Tolley who quickly got things back on track with – “it’s not a good look…..”, “decided in the media……” , “blah blah blah”.

    You bet it’s not a good look, privileged, mutton-dressed-up-as-lamb worse than Shitley cow ! A 17 year old, I’d suspect illiterate (then) kid, used as an ingredient in a police “cook-a- cake-of- your-choice” exercise for which no doubt the very senior police personnel involved were lauded to Kingdom Come.

    20 years in the slammer poor little bugger.

    Good to see Toryana and Peter exercised about the boy. They might finally prove of some worth. Pity it took the destruction of a young man’s life.

    John Key, please, please don’t let Chris 73’s self-gratification fodder Judy Collins anywhere near the compensation issue.
28. Colonial Viper 28

    27 March 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Cyprus youth rise up. They’ve figured out their ‘elders and betters’ have screwed their futures, permanently.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-26/cypriot-youth-rise-pictures-they-just-got-rid-all-our-dreams

    Notice one of the photos there where the salutes look very much like seig heils.

    Give it a few more years, Europe’s history is coming back.
    • GregJ 28.1

      27 March 2013 at 9:17 pm

      I wander if the anger in Cyprus begins to have a feedback loop to Greece? It will be interesting to see if the protests in Greece continue again after the latest wave in February and early March.
    • rosy 28.2

      27 March 2013 at 11:11 pm

      To be fair they’re holding up their hands because they have ‘NO’ written on their palms.

      However, yeah, a re-run of Germany in the ’30s somewhere else is a scary prospect and all too likely if political/bureaucratic decisions inflicting joblessness, increasing wealth divisions within and between nations, and hopelessness in the general population aren’t changed soon.
29. North 29

    27 March 2013 at 9:27 pm

    While I wrote the post above I had a weather-eye on “3rd Degree” on TV3.

    A debate ??? What alot of shit ! In part at least a bunch of wannabee TV celebrities-in-training with Garner, the lisping wee Gee-On, and the perennial yet newly-careered “lawyer” Linda Clark.

    They’ll have graduated and be on “Afternoons With Jimmy” within a month.

    Still, all of the above said, I give real heartfelt thanks to 3rd Degree for its Teina Pora investigation.
    • Murray Olsen 29.1

      27 March 2013 at 11:16 pm

      What’s happened to that poor guy is absolutely disgusting. Any police involved in this carriage of injustice should have to do time equal to what they got him sentenced to.
30. Draco T Bastard 30

    27 March 2013 at 11:05 pm

    It’s Official: There Is a Money Tree

    In paragraph 3.34, the [UK] Treasury makes plain that the monetary authorities could finance increased government spending on infrastructure “through the creation of money“.

    There is a money tree, and it’s called the Bank of England.

    Same applies to the RBNZ. Now just need to the politicians of the left (the ones on the right will only ever have the country borrowing from their rich mates) to realise it.
31. Descendant Of Sssmith 31

    27 March 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Damn the misleading headlines this week.

    First it was “Collins in jail” – turned out to be some rugby player

    Then it was “Farewell to Gerry” – turned out to be Marsden

    Next it was “Labour MP’s kicked out” but it was only the speaker throwing a tantrum not the party.
32. Colonial Viper 32

    27 March 2013 at 11:43 pm

    Food stamp debit cards stop welfare being used for alcohol and cigarettes

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/26/payment-cards-emergency-assistance-food-stamps

    Got to love the UK Tories. Bash a few more bennies.

    Best thing is to just provide soup kitchens and poor houses, that way you know exactly what the bennies are doing and spending every minute of the day

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