Open mike 28/05/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 28th, 2013 - 169 comments
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169 comments on “Open mike 28/05/2013 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    28 May 2013 at 6:22 am

    Thanks to the Herald, yesterday Chris de Freitas a professor at Auckland university has revealed he has made an incredible discovery about the science of the climate that will surely earn him the Nobel Prize.

    In an op-ed in the New Zealand Herald Professor de Freitas has revealed “….the incontrovertible fact that adding more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere has an ever-decreasing effect on global temperature.”

    Yes you read it right, CO2 emissions cool the climate.

    As well as winning the Nobel Prize, Professor de Freitas will have the undying gratitude of the oil and coal industry, who now have a duty to emit as much CO2 as possible to cool the current naturally caused hot phase that Professor de Freitas admits the planet is currently going through.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10886282

    • Paul 1.1
      28 May 2013 at 6:31 am

      He does seem to get a regular spot in the Herald to write about the climate, despite having very little qualification to comment on it.
      Funny that.

    • Matt 1.2
      28 May 2013 at 9:51 am

      “Yes you read it right, CO2 emissions cool the climate.”

      I read it right, but you didn’t. He is not saying CO2 reduces temperature at all, he is saying that as more and more CO2 is put into the atmosphere it has progressively less impact on temperature.

      I am not saying he is right, just that you have completely misconstrued what he said.

      • lprent 1.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 12:45 pm

        I read it right, but you didn’t. He is not saying CO2 reduces temperature at all, he is saying that as more and more CO2 is put into the atmosphere it has progressively less impact on temperature.

        That is obvious, but probably not for the reasons that whoever you’re talking about is thinking.

        Obviously if you look at an atmosphere like Venus as an endpoint of that thinking, then you can see that continuing to add greenhouse gases have a reduced effect as it increases, but is still increasing.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus

        While the percentage of CO2 (the main greenhouse gas) is damn sight higher (~97%) and the whole atmospheric pressure is lot lot higher, the average surface temperature is only ~740K. Earth is ~290K at the surface with a minimal CO2 of ~0,035%. There are other factors of course for venus, but it shows that increasing CO2 will keep increasing atmospheric temperature at a steadily reduced rate per increases in density. Of course it really doesn’t matter because there is no apparent limit to the temperature increase apart from atmospheric pressure and distance from the sun.

        On earth the acidification of the water supply from absorbing CO2 is likely to be the limiting factor for the biosphere long before temperature becomes the constraint if anyone was silly enough to burn all of the fossil carbon.

        Basically it is one of those silly “fact” arguments used by people who just trying to confuse and obstruct the issue. Chris de Idiot is one of them.

        • Arfamo 1.2.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 1:11 pm

          We seem to still be in what is now claimed to be a 17 year stall in surface temperature rise, and this is cited as evidence the global warming link to CO2 emissions is false. However, the evidence is that the surface temp is still rising, just very, very slightly. Nevertheless the ocean temps are continuing to climb unabated so the overall global temperature climb continues to happen. There is also plenty of evidence the oceans are becoming much more acidic – it seems likely much of the heat and the CO2 is being absorbed by the oceans at the moment.

          Globally ice is disappearing fast. It’s diminishing rapidly in both extent and thickness, apart from one or two areas where there is some growth due to local precipitation and uniquely isolated weather features – like the Antarctic Ice Shelf which is growing (although Antarctic land-based ice is thinning), and one glacier in the Himalayas.

          The relationship between rising atmospheric CO2 from human emissions (distinguishable from natural sources like volcanoes by its isotopic signature) and rising global temperatures is indicated mainly I believe by its matching the global temperature curve.

          http://www.skepticalscience.com/docs/Guide_to_Skepticism.pdf

          • lprent 1.2.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 7:37 pm

            Far more CO2 and heat has been absorbed into the oceans (and heat into ice melts) than was expected back in the early 90’s, yes. That has meant that the surface temperatures have been moderated. Ummm. NOAA has a good dashboard – doesn’t look like “stall” to me…

            http://www.climate.gov/

            I suspect that someone is just cherry picking data as per normal..

            Anyway lower air temperatures than the more extreme models from 17 years ago (with inadequate ocean data to predict) doesn’t change the overall effect of heat absorption, it just changes the short-term effects over the next few decades. And the ice melt has been far more extreme than anyone anticipated and ocean temperatures are kind of crazy looking down the whole column.

            Got to remember that back in the 80’s and 90’s we knew virtually nothing about ocean or ice heat absorption capabilities. Both are probably more dangerous than hotter air temperatures as they drive extreme weather events and that causes much faster climate shifts for the things that drive our economies than heat waves.

      • Jenny 1.2.2
        28 May 2013 at 6:04 pm

        De Freitas said that more CO2 creates more water vapor which becomes clouds which shield the earth from light and heat. Like a “thin layer of paint on a sheet of glass”. According to de Freitas’ the more CO2, the more coats of paint, the more shading, the more cooling.

        ie. Warming causes Cooling. The more warming the more cooling. De Freitas calls this a negative feed back.

        Apart from the tortured logic that the climate has to be warmer for this cooling to work.

        All that extra energy still has to go somewhere.

        Other than that, water vapor is not clouds, it is an invisible heat trapping gas. (A difference that de Freitas does not make clear).

        Does more water vapor in the atmosphere mean more clouds?

        Not necessarily.

        Have you ever seen speeded up film of clouds?

        You can witness them waxing and waning. Seemingly appearing from nothing to grow into very large masses. Just as likely, depending on temperature and pressure, you can watch them diminishing, turning back into invisible vapor with out ever condensing into large enough drops to overcome gravity and fall as rain. The differences between vaporisation and condensation can be slight. Both processes can even look to be happening at the same time, on the leading and trailing edges of the same cloud.

        As the world warms more clouds are not guaranteed. Even if more cloud was a side effect of global warming and provided extra shading of the surface of the Earth during the daytime. This effect most likely would be cancelled out at night, by the insulating effect. And it is at night that a lot of the energy that falls as visible light during the day is reradiated back into space as heat. Like white blankets, clouds as well as being reflectors are insulators. You can feel this with your body. A cloudy night is warmer than a starlit night. The heat collected from the sun during the day that radiates back out into space at night will be doubly blocked by heat trapping water vapor and insulating cloud.

        • NickS 1.2.2.1
          28 May 2013 at 6:32 pm

          De Freitas said that more CO2 creates more water vapor which becomes clouds which shield the earth from light and heat. Like a “thin layer of paint on a sheet of glass”. According to de Freitas’ the more CO2, the more coats of paint, the more shading, the more cooling.

          T_T

          Teh stupid, how it burns…

          From my brief reads of the literature, the actual net effect of increasing water vapour on global temperature is still a major [needs more work] area, mostly due to the fact weather on a global scale is very computationally complex. Basically, the models available don’t have high enough resolution in terms of modelling our 3d atmosphere at levels that are statistically strong fits to base strong conclusions on. And different types of clouds have different effects on warming and cooling.

          So for De Freitas to make this claim of negative feedback, he has to be ignoring a rather significant chunk of literature, which is pretty par the fucking course for him.

          Even when he publishes stuff on climate change, he has a bad habit of leaving out inconvenient papers or making shit up, resulting in his “climate change isn’t happening” ones going straight into crank climate journals.

          And note also he says “science shows…” in the Herald piece, and yet doesn’t even bother to do the courtesy of bothering to cite any key papers.

          • Murray Olsen 1.2.2.1.1
            29 May 2013 at 12:17 am

            I have no idea why Auckland University keeps employing de Freitas. I remember a guy who was basically sacked for not passing enough students, yet de Freitas makes the University a laughing stock every time he opens his mouth. It sucks.

        • lprent 1.2.2.2
          28 May 2013 at 7:41 pm

          Sure you can get more reflection… You can also get more absorption.. Depends on the exact effects.

          Take Venus for an extreme example. It has a complete cloud cover and still has surface temperatures that can boil lead due to atmospheric greenhouse CO2 despite the nice reflective acidic cloud cover.

          • Rhinocrates 1.2.2.2.1
            28 May 2013 at 7:55 pm

            “Global warming isn’t real and it’s stopped, even though it isn’t real because there hasn’t been a temperature rise for a week, it’s winter and isn’t it cold?” will be spouted by the denialists.

            Beware. They’ll say that, they’ll keep repeating it.

            Have a look at this:

            http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23060-has-global-warming-ground-to-a-halt.html?full=true&print=true

            It looks like for a while, the oceans will absorb the heat, but only for a while as part of medium-term cycles.

            If you want to counter them when they say that nothing has happened for a decade (except that increasing frequency of disastrous storms), point out the fact that a decade is nothing … and that maybe we should be thinking about those storms as well?

            • Bill 1.2.2.2.1.1
              28 May 2013 at 8:05 pm

              How can something that isn’t real…stop? They can’t have their cake and eat it too.

  2. Morrissey 2
    28 May 2013 at 6:29 am

    LIARS OF OUR TIME
    No. 14: Colin Powell

    “Or worse, if we find a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations that are looking for just such weapons — and I would submit and will provide more evidence that such connections are now emerging and we can establish that they exist…”

    —-Colin Powell, U.S. Secretary State, at the United Nations, Wednesday, February 5, 2003
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/transcripts/powelltext_020503.html

    (With supreme irony, rendered all the more devastating because of the servile stance of this loyal government newspaper, the transcript of this horror is headed with a quote from it: “A Policy of Evasion and Deception”.)

    See also….
    No.13: Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052013/#comment-638881
    No. 12: U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    No. 11: Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
    No. 10: Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    No. 9: NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21052013/#comment-635850 No. 8: Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20052013/#comment-635343

    No. 7: Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295

    No. 6: NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632598
    
No. 5: Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594
    
No. 4: Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06052013/#comment-628803

    No. 3: John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06052013/#comment-628703
    
No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.” (TV3 News, 24 April 2013) http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25042013/#comment-624381

    No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19042013/#comment-621738

    • Paul 2.1
      28 May 2013 at 6:32 am

      Are you planning to continue your Jim Mora series?

      • Tim 2.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 6:48 am

        I imagine it might be too painful. I tried again yesterday but the nicest man on Earth was just too agreeable to stomach.

      • Morrissey 2.1.2
        28 May 2013 at 7:37 am

        Are you planning to continue your Jim Mora series?

        Is the Pope Catholic? Did Craig Joubert gift the All Blacks the 2011 RWC final? Does Tim Shadbolt laugh a lot? Does America terrorize peasants in Pakistan? Is Lanthanide a filibusterer? Does Michelle Boag frown grimly when crossed by an oik?

        • Watching 2.1.2.1
          28 May 2013 at 10:34 am

          Is the Pope Catholic? – that’s an assumption on your part

          Did Craig Joubert gift the All Blacks the 2011 RWC final? – all sport comments are one-eyed & and cannot be proven.

          Does Tim Shadbolt laugh a lot? – or is that nervous reaction to stress.

          Does America terrorize peasants in Pakistan? – is that the american spelling of terrorise.

          Is Lanthanide a filibusterer? – for you maybe or for others he offers a debating point of view that allows democracy discussion for some of us to watch (!) rather than all comments being +1 in context.

          …. and the reason why I am replying

          Does Michelle Boag frown grimly when crossed by an oik? – why make that comment about someone you don’t like. Regardless of what/who Michelle Boag is you always lose the argument with that type of throwaway line.. I just don’t listen to people who make sly personal remarks when it has no context to the discussion. You remember that sly remark (and assume that they will be some cutting remark about you in their next discussion) and forgot the point being made.

          • Lanthanide 2.1.2.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 10:43 am

            Morrissey is all to fond of playing the person and not the issue, as evidenced by his evasive streak of posts yesterday when he wouldn’t respond to my straightforward questions.

          • Morrissey 2.1.2.1.2
            28 May 2013 at 8:34 pm

            Is the Pope Catholic? – that’s an assumption on your part

            But a fairly reasonable assumption, surely?

            Did Craig Joubert gift the All Blacks the 2011 RWC final? – all sport comments are one-eyed & and cannot be proven.

            A fair point if you were talking about normal sport. The 2011 RWC final outrage was anything but….
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p1YkXbWZg0

            Does Tim Shadbolt laugh a lot? – or is that nervous reaction to stress.

            Probably.

            Does America terrorize peasants in Pakistan? – is that the american spelling of terrorise.

            It’s also perfectly acceptable in standard English.

            Is Lanthanide a filibusterer? – for you maybe or for others he offers a debating point of view that allows democracy discussion for some of us to watch (!) rather than all comments being +1 in context.

            Fair point. Lanthanide is one of our best posters.

            …. and the reason why I am replying

            Does Michelle Boag frown grimly when crossed by an oik? – why make that comment about someone you don’t like. Regardless of what/who Michelle Boag is you always lose the argument with that type of throwaway line.. I just don’t listen to people who make sly personal remarks when it has no context to the discussion. You remember that sly remark (and assume that they will be some cutting remark about you in their next discussion) and forgot the point being made.

            Understood. Kid gloves for Boag from now on.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.2
      28 May 2013 at 6:59 am

      Hey, Moz, a ten year old article is hardly ‘of our time’ and the Washington Post can hardly be said to be loyally servile to rightwing governments. They have this Google thing now that may help you get the facts right in future.

      And you may want to have a look at your equally disappointing contribution yesterday again. You have some questions to answer.

      • Morrissey 2.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 7:19 am

        Hey, Moz, a ten year old article is hardly ‘of our time’

        A very good point/ For me, and I think for you too, Te Reo, “our time” goes back even to the late nineteenth century. Actually, for me, modernity starts around 1649. This series is not entitled “Contemporary Liars”, it’s “Liars of Our Time”—which is a moveable concept. Remember what Mao Zedong said when someone asked what he thought about the French Revolution: “too early to tell.”

        …and the Washington Post can hardly be said to be loyally servile to rightwing governments.

        You need to do some serious reading, my friend. That was a worryingly naive, even credulous, statement. You obviously have not read a lot of the Washington Post.

        And you may want to have a look at your equally disappointing contribution yesterday again. You have some questions to answer.

        Check it out now, my friend. Done and dusted. Way ahead of ya….

        • Te Reo Putake 2.2.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 8:03 am

          Rubbish, Moz, You’ve been caught out slagging the Post for no good reason and your ignorance about the paper’s history is laughable. Or are you just a liar of our time?

          And you still have questions to answer about yesterday’s failure, bluster doesn’t cut it round these parts.

          • muzza 2.2.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 8:55 am

            Are you the blog police.?

            • Lanthanide 2.2.1.1.1.1
              28 May 2013 at 9:19 am

              No, but people in the comments are allowed to have a discussion with other people in the comments. That’s what Te Reo is doing.

    • Lanthanide 2.3
      28 May 2013 at 9:13 am

      I notice you removed Obama’s middle name from yesterday’s “lie”. Now whyever did you do that, Morrissey?

      Btw Morrissey, deliberately referring to me as a female only makes you look childish and sad.
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052013/#comment-639334
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052013/#comment-639576

  3. mickysavage 3
    28 May 2013 at 6:41 am

    John Key gets to announce a food in schools Programme today. It will be some sort of PPP with Fonterra and Sanitarium. The provision of a fundamental necessity will rely on corporate largesse. And there is obviously tension in Cabinet as some insist that beating up on deadbeat parents is more important than feeding kids.

    But Shearer IMHO has missed out a chance to stake out a position that is humane and progressive. He has said that providing breakfast to children was ultimately a parent’s responsibility and any programme must be targeted. What he should have said is that it is vital that a six year old is fed so that they can actually learn and this is much more important than punishing so called deadbeat parents. He should forget on trying to coax over National voters and give those who did not vote last time a reason to do so.

    Can you imagine Michael Joseph Savage and the first Labour Government taking the same position as Shearer?

    • Te Reo Putake 3.1
      28 May 2013 at 6:50 am

      “Can you imagine Michael Joseph Savage and the first Labour Government taking the same position as Shearer?”

      Yes, yes I can. The first Labour Government took a targeted approach to welfare and housing, MS.

      • mickysavage 3.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 7:15 am

        Did Savage and co adopt National’s framing of issues TRP?

        And why do you think that National has just announced increased penalties for child porn? It is because they know they are weak on the child compassion front and need to bolster support. Mimicking their language just gives them a free ride on the issue.

        Labour should come out and say they will support Hone’s feed the kids bill, at least to select committee.

        • Te Reo Putake 3.1.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 7:19 am

          I thought it was Hone that framed this issue, actually. And pretty successfully.

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 8:05 am

            Yeah Hone (Mana) has done all the hard work on this and labour and shearer can still get on board and help the kids but sure they have to check the polling and have a couple of focus groups after all they don’t want to upset the middle do they.

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.2
            29 May 2013 at 1:52 am

            Trying to equate Shearer’s comment with something Savage may have said is ludicrous. For starters, a hundred thousand Labour Party members cheered Savage on when he spoke. Who cheered Shearer on? Hooten?

        • Arandar 3.1.1.2
          28 May 2013 at 8:09 am

          to MickeySavage at 3.1.1. From Hone’s Feed the Kids Facebook page …

          ” … The Bill is expected to come before Parliament for its first reading on Wednesday 5 June. So far Labour, Greens, Maori Party, NZ First, and Independent MP Brendan Horan have agreed to support it. We need one more vote to get it passed and to a select committee for further consideration. … ”

          Labour is supporting the bill through to select committee. It’s a start.

          • Anne 3.1.1.2.1
            28 May 2013 at 9:59 am

            There is another angle here that may have been overlooked. Someone correct me if I’ve got it wrong, but I remember Labour in 2008 coming up with a policy that would ensure only healthy foods be provided in school food programmes. They wanted all types of ‘fast foods’ in schools banned or at least strongly discouraged. I remember National (John Key included) ridiculing them up and down the country for this policy. The basis of their argument was that the food children were eating had nothing to do with the govt. – ie. it was “nanny state” again.

            Labour should dig out a few of those MSM news clips/videos and use them to remind the memory-challenged voters… how John Key – who is currently talking about how important children are properly fed – actually campaigned against good quality food in schools a few years ago. It gives the lie to his latest claim that he’s been “keen on the food in schools idea since 2007″.

            Another lie for Morrisey to add to his list?

            • freedom 3.1.1.2.1.1
              28 May 2013 at 10:44 am

              “Another lie for Morrisey to add to his list?”

              I think you mean Blip’s list
              http://thestandard.org.nz/an-honest-man/

              • Anne …
                28 May 2013 at 2:18 pm

                Actually, both of them.

                • freedom …
                  28 May 2013 at 5:02 pm

                  must have missed it, do you have a link please Anne? Thank you.

                  • Anne …
                    28 May 2013 at 7:30 pm

                    Hi freedom,
                    Coming from the same generation as Helen Clark, I’m technically computer non-savvy (not saying she is but I am) when it comes to searching for MSM historic links. I actually did try but was unsuccessful. However DTB remembers it (see below) so it wasn’t a figment of my imagination. I knew that of course, but maybe someone can come up with the details. It was nasty stuff and it sorely angered me at the time. Now Key is laying on the empathy as though he has always cared about the poor kids. BS I say.

                    • lprent …
                      28 May 2013 at 9:00 pm

                      She sort of was. I donated her a home computer in about 1992/3 and “politely” suggested that she should become a bit more literate.

                      However she got a whole lot better over the years. I think that the key to the web turned out to be booking overseas travel for those crazy vacations she took every few years dragging Peter away from his projects to go up mountains…

                    • freedom …
                      28 May 2013 at 11:52 pm

                      just has a radical thought . . .
                      maybe Morrissey knows where it is ?

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    29 May 2013 at 12:07 am

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837613

                    The sale of unhealthy foods was virtually banned at schools – briefly – by the last Labour-led Government in a move widely supported by public health experts. National repealed the rule in 2009 on grounds that schools should not have to be “food police”, but it retained another requiring schools “to promote healthy food and drink”.

                    And, yes, that is an article about how National’s policies failed.

              • logie97 …
                28 May 2013 at 5:03 pm

                freedom. Thanks for bookmarking that one. Blip’s list gets lost except for vigilant people like you. I have suggested that the Standard might like to Front Page that list each day, and that people can add to it (today’s lie a case in point), and newbie visitors to this site could be made aware of it and the likes of burt and Hooton reminded of it.

            • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.2.1.2
              28 May 2013 at 1:37 pm

              Now that you mention it, I remember that attack on the then government by the RWNJs well.

      • Murray Olsen 3.1.2
        29 May 2013 at 12:37 am

        I can’t imagine Savage taking any such position. Imagine Shearer’s approach to milk in schools, for example.

    • Paul 3.2
      28 May 2013 at 6:52 am

      If Labour want to win the 2014 election they must get rid of Shearer. Urgently.

      • Te Reo Putake 3.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 7:10 am

        Labour aren’t going to win the next election, Labour and the Greens are. Shearer will have to settle for being PM in a coalition government, but I imagine he’s OK with that.

        • muzza 3.2.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 8:57 am

          I imagine he’s ok with that

          I imagine his handlers, are ok with that!

          FIFY!

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 3.3
      28 May 2013 at 7:21 am

      He should have said “we recognise that low levels of income are the biggest determinant of whether or not children get fed. The reality is, is that many people have lost their jobs in the last 5 years, people often have high rents and mortgages to pay and benefit rates have not kept pace with inflation.

      Nationals vision of a brighter future has not occurred for most people, the 170′,000 jobs they keep promising simply haven’t eventuates. The country continues to get deeper in debt.

      What we are seeing under National is a return to the days that Dickens wrote about. Days where people became dependant on charity rather than we as a country ensuring that our people have good housing and decent incomes.

      Labour will reverse the tax cuts that National gave upon coming into power and will increase benefits immediately upon coming into government by $25-00 per week. This reverses the cuts that were made in the Ruth Richardson budget and allows for an inflationary adjustment. Last time we went into government we gave superannuitants the $20-00 back and it is only fair that this time we are just as fair to other beneficiaries. The additional $5-00 will also be paid to NZS recipients.

      We also will help low paid workers by immediately increasing the minimum wage by increasing this by $1-00 per hour per year for the next three years and my legislating for a mandatory pay increase of 2% per year for all workers earning below $50,000 per annum each year for the next three years.

      Many workers have nothing in their contracts that make provision for annual pay increases and do not have any real ability to negotiate these.

      These three things will put more money in people’s pockets which will help them have sufficient means to feed their children.

      This approach is twofold. It both provides additional state support and moves some of the profit from companies back to workers rather than to shareholders and owners. In this way both employers and the wider community make a contribution to ensuring our most vulnerable and lowest paid are fed.”

      I just can’t imagine the current Labour government coming close to anything like this.

      • mickysavage 3.3.1
        28 May 2013 at 7:26 am

        Give that man a job in the leader’s office!

        • Te Reo Putake 3.3.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 8:10 am

          Every man has his price, micky! I have you down on the shortlist for assistant to the AG in the next gummint. Salary and perks negotiable.

      • Paul 3.3.2
        28 May 2013 at 7:41 am

        The chances of proactive, progressive policies and fighting talk from Shearer are negligible.
        It makes no sense that a Labour leader would not fight for their constituents.
        Therefore it gives lead to the thesis that Shearer was placed there by the right and the corporations to ensure that whatever happened, the neo-liberal project was not upset.
        Because if the argument is that he was put there to recover the middle ground, then he should be replaced because that just isn’t happening.

        • Colonial Viper 3.3.2.1
          28 May 2013 at 12:29 pm

          It makes no sense that a Labour leader would not fight for their constituents.

          you basically covered this off…every politician has constituents. They simply may not be who you expect or hope they are representing.

    • marty mars 3.4
      28 May 2013 at 7:37 am

      Yep – or he could have said, “Feeding the kids is our responsibility as a nation – to look after those that need help. I absolutely refuse to accept any child going to school hungry and if we want to blame someone for that I blame the policies of this Government who care more about their rich mates than hungry kids. That is why I am saying we will support the great initiative put up by Hone and Mana and why we are proud to stand beside them and the fight against poverty. I cannot wait to work with Mana and the Green members of parliament as we tackle poverty. We are building a coalition to help the needy not like this lot who only help the greedy.”

      • Paul 3.4.1
        28 May 2013 at 7:43 am

        It’s not difficult to write that narrative, is it? So why doesn’t Shearer do it?
        Because he is a man placed by the corporates to ensure that NZ inc keeps sending its profits to its offshore owners.

  4. Richard 4
    28 May 2013 at 7:43 am

    “I just can’t imagine the current Labour government coming close to anything like this.”

    I can’t imagine the current Labour opposition coming close to anything like this either.

  5. logie97 5
    28 May 2013 at 7:55 am

    That picture of Key and the bottle of Moet.
    Is that an example of the Minister of Tourism and PM’s approach to promoting New Zealand wine?

    http://thestandard.org.nz/caption-contest-51/

  6. marty mars 6
    28 May 2013 at 8:01 am

    Get ready for a shitstorm as Susan Devoy comes out swinging on this issue

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10886641

    Air NZ?

    No – Air NZ (but no Māori please) don’t want to ‘intimidate’ people with ta moko proudly depicting cultural heritage and whakapapa.

    Air NZ – hypocrites and cultural liars – come on devoy rip into these wankers!!!

    • David H 6.1
      28 May 2013 at 8:20 am

      So how long you reckon we should wait?

      • marty mars 6.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 9:18 am

        Until the 12th of never probably

        Johnny Mathis – what a voice

        • weka 6.1.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 11:37 am

          Don’t use that word tattoo, AirNZ.

          MOKO

          Tenei matou te hunga moko e tu nei i roto i tenei ao
          Hurihuri ao tangata

          Chorus:
          I wear my pride upon my skin
          My pride has always been within
          I wear my strength upon my face
          Comes from another time and place
          Bet you didn’t know that every line has a message for me
          Did you know that

          The word tattoo describes the marking of patterns by
          Inserting coloured dyes under a smooth skin
          The word moko represents a traditional custom in which
          Spirals unique to Maori are carved deeply below the skins
          Surface to produce a groove scar – did you know that

          Because the head the most sacred part of the body was touched
          blood spilt the whole ceremony was tapu
          The tip of a birdbone chisel dipped into sooty black pigment
          Tapped by a beater to the sound of songs created to soothe
          The painful process of creating moko so don’t use that word tattoo

          Every spiral has a name ever line on the face don’t use that word tattoo

          Chorus

          The classic Maori moko has the male bearing complex spirals on
          Both cheeks both sides of the nose
          Lines spread between the eyes to the temple the nose to the chin
          Over nineteen names have been identified for different parts of the pattern
          Women received kauae or chin moko
          some copied their Mothers or grandmothers
          others allowed the artist to express their creativity
          The moko indicated genealogy, rank ,accomplishment
          It represented masculinity, beauty, warriorhood, identity
          So don’t use that word tattoo

          Chorus

          The moko reflected the carvings and rafter patterns inside the Whare tipuna
          but some were made so distinctive they were like an autograph
          a beautiful signature written all over the face
          In 1815 Te Pehi Kupe drew his own moko without the aid of a Mirror
          every line firmly in his mind and then he drew the moko
          Of his brother and his son

          Did you know that

          The moko reflected the Maori way of life
          everything was connected, religion, war, lovemaking and death
          For this generation, the kauae and moko were only seen in paintings
          but now those images have come to life
          Netana Whakaari said in 1921
          You can lose your most valuable property through misfortune in various ways
          you may be robbed of all your prized possessions
          but of your moko you cannot be deprived
          It will be your ornament and your companion until your last day
          so don’t use that word tattoo

          Chorus

          Korero ki nga tamariki tenei kaupapa ta moko he taonga
          Tuku iho ki nga tipuna

          http://www.moananz.com/popups/lyrics/moko.html

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 12:47 pm

            Good ol’ Air NZ. You’ll have a koru on your tail, and All Blacks with tattoos on your advertising, but some chick who wears a ta moko? Sorry Miss, your chances are fucked!

        • David H 6.1.1.2
          28 May 2013 at 1:06 pm

          Or for some classic George Carlin explaining what all the double talk means in a speech to the National Press Club.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc0ZHsoHAlE

          Enjoy

    • Clockie 6.2
      28 May 2013 at 9:30 am

      I know I’m stupid, but how do you make the macron over a long vowel?

      • marty mars 6.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 9:37 am

        I use a simple technique of cutting and pasting into a word doc so a lot of macroned words are there and then doing the same into a comment but others will explain some more sophisticated ways of doing it

      • David H 6.2.2
        28 May 2013 at 9:43 am

        If you are using Word 2003 for Windows XP, then these numeric codes will work. You may wish to experiment in other programs to see if these work.

        Note: These only work with a numeric keypad.
        Word 2003 (Win XP) ALT Codes
        Capital Vowels
        Ā ALT+0256 Cap long A
        Ē ALT+0274 Cap long E
        Ī ALT+0298 Cap long I
        Ō ALT+0332 Cap long O
        Ū ALT+0362 Cap long U
        Ȳ ALT+0562 Cap long Y
        Æ ALT+0198 Cap short ash
        Ǣ ALT+0482 Cap long ash

        Lower Vowels
        ā ALT+0257 Lower long A
        ē ALT+0275 Lower long E
        ī ALT+0299 Lower long I
        ō ALT+0333 Lower long O
        ū ALT+0363 Lower long U
        ȳ ALT+0563 Lower long Y
        æ ALT+0230 Lower short ash
        ǣ ALT+0483 Lower long ash

        Gotta Love Google
        http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu/gotunicode/macron.html

        • Matt 6.2.2.1
          28 May 2013 at 10:03 am

          If you’re using Windows just search for character map and the world is your oyster.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.3
        28 May 2013 at 10:09 am

        Here.

        • Clockie 6.2.3.1
          28 May 2013 at 12:19 pm

          Māori. Yep that worked! A bit of fumbling around of the type that amuses my daughters so much when they see me on the computer but got there in the end. Thanks Draco.

          Thanks to all who replied.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3
      28 May 2013 at 10:11 am

      It’s like that across the business world and for all tattoos. Apparently, some people are frightened by them.

      • TheContrarian 6.3.1
        28 May 2013 at 1:44 pm

        “It’s like that across the business world and for all tattoos. Apparently, some people are frightened by them.”

        I have a tattoo that is visible and I am in the business world. Never had any issues whatsoever.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 5:15 pm

          To be honest, I’m not surprised but the advice coming from employment ‘experts’ is that having a tattoo will be a mark against you in getting a job. IMO, it’s just that some bosses look upon people wit tattoos with derision and scorn rather than accepting them as the unique person they are.

          I remember a few years ago that a young woman working in a cafe bar. She had worked there for some time, the regulars liked her and she engaged well with the tourists that came through. She got moko and hot fired. The owner of the business was frightened that she would suddenly scare away the tourists. Biggest load of bollocks I’d ever heard of.

          • McFlock 6.3.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 5:21 pm

            yep.

            Employees and job applicants should work hard to stand out from the pool of other cattle, but at the same time only do so in unchallenging ways. And wear only approved items of “flair”.

          • TheContrarian 6.3.1.1.2
            28 May 2013 at 5:21 pm

            I have a very culturally proud Maori friend who has many, many tattoos and he is as white collar as they come.

            “IMO, it’s just that some bosses look upon people wit tattoos with derision and scorn rather than accepting them as the unique person they are.”

            Bit of a generalisation (granted it is your opinion though).

            • NickS 6.3.1.1.2.1
              28 May 2013 at 6:00 pm

              Depends on the job, usually customer servicing in high end retail and hospitality tend to biased against visible tattoos in general, and having visible neo-nazi tattoos pretty much will cause issues for a lot of employers.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.1.2.2
              29 May 2013 at 12:11 am

              Bit of a generalisation (granted it is your opinion though).

              Check out what WINZ tells people, check out what the Salvation Army does and the Auckland Chamber of Business. It’s not my opinion.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.4
      28 May 2013 at 1:14 pm

      And then we get this:

      A New York-based real estate firm Rapid Realty has offered its 800 employees a 15% pay raise if they tattoo the company’s logo onto their bodies, and the offer is snowballing, according to CBS New York. So far, nearly 40 employees accepted the challenge, AOL Jobs reported.

      Generally speaking, I’m in agreement with the comments. It’s a show of how bad things have become.

      • McFlock 6.4.1
        28 May 2013 at 1:30 pm

        lol
        If I were a disgruntled employee I know where I’d put the tat 🙂

      • Clockie 6.4.2
        28 May 2013 at 1:45 pm

        Lordy, lordy! Why don’t they just get a barcode identifying them as the company’s property tattooed on the back of their heads?

        • McFlock 6.4.2.1
          28 May 2013 at 1:51 pm

          Serendip strikes again…

          Fascinating piece of trivia from Cracked.com.
          Apparently “addict” comes from a Roman practise of enslaving debtors.

    • prism 6.5
      28 May 2013 at 1:43 pm

      susan Devoid it seems.

  7. AsleepWhileWalking 7
    28 May 2013 at 8:08 am

    NZD makes the Keiser Report:

    http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/05/new-zealand-opens-new-front-in-currency-war/

    One of the last comments talk about the sheep eating green (dollars instead of buying actual assets)…in NZ shouldn’t that be eating red or purple?

  8. wyndham 8
    28 May 2013 at 8:22 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/electricity/news/article.cfm?c_id=187&objectid=10886490

    – – – – and did I hear that MRP shares have dropped 14 cents below the issue price?

    • mickysavage 8.1
      28 May 2013 at 8:26 am

      Wow, down to $2.36 at the close of the market yesterday.

      Does not bode well for the sale of Meridian. And Key is talking about floating Meridian in two separate share issues.

      https://nzx.com/markets/NZSX/securities/MRP

      • David H 8.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 9:44 am

        Key is talking of selling Meridian come hell or high water.

      • Augustus 8.1.2
        28 May 2013 at 11:03 am

        Call me a cynic, but floating Meridian in “chunks” will look like this:

        First, we bundle the “chunks” into the “better performing” assets and those that have to be “brought in line with investor expectations in a dynamic market”. Then we sell the “better performing assets”, i.e. all the profitable and well maintained hydro schemes, to Key’s cronies. The second chunk will never reach investors’ expectations and the National party, ever with a hand on the populace’s pulse, will decide that it would be “not economically viable at this stage” to lumber investors with assets that will actually need investment in. So we get to keep the assets, our 51%, until such time as they are brought up to standard at our expense., before that part gets floated next time they are in power.

      • McFlock 8.1.3
        28 May 2013 at 11:30 am

        Not so much a “float” as a “sink”.

  9. vto 9
    28 May 2013 at 8:38 am

    Chris Trotter has an interesting piece in the Press this morning regarding Winston Peters’ speech last week about Chinese immigration and its effect on parts of New Zealand.

    He says that concern about changing demographics and the threats to ones culture and place that arise from that are entirely legitimate concerns. It is not straight up racist or xenophobic to raise these issues, he says.

    Yet it is interesting isn’t it how on here Peters gets instantly labelled racist and xenophobic for raising these issues of concern to some people. It is also interesting that there is some precedent for this in New Zealand and that is Maori and the treaty of course. Maori were concerned about a massive wave of immigration that threatened their culture and their place here. They did something about it. Is it ok for these people to also do something about it? Or are the people of North Shore to be afforded something different? And if so, why and what?

    • marty mars 9.1
      28 May 2013 at 9:13 am

      “Maori were concerned about a massive wave of immigration that threatened their culture and their place here. They did something about it.”

      Not really true but sure a small part of why some signed.

      http://year10sos.blogspot.co.nz/2007/06/reasons-for-signing-treaty-of-waitangi.html

      http://www.treaty2u.govt.nz/the-treaty-up-close/two-parties-two-understandings/

      http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/making-the-treaty/signing-the-treaty

    • weka 9.2
      28 May 2013 at 11:25 am

      It’s pretty simply vto. Peters is racist because of how he raises the issues (and because he does so in this way to get votes), not because he raises them. Do you see the difference?

      • vto 9.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 11:33 am

        Yes I have heard this raised countless times but the head struggles to get around it at times… How has Peters done it here which makes it racist? How do the people of Auckland who raise this issue make them racist? Not a leading question – a genuine one…

        • weka 9.2.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 11:47 am

          We have some immigration issues in NZ, let’s talk about them. Let’s look at all the different ways people from various countries come to NZ and how/why they are allowed to live here. When we look at some of the trickier issues, let’s look at how OUR immigration policy, set by OUR govt created problems, rather than blaming the people who took fair and legal advantage of those policies.

          compared to:

          Chinese immigrants are responsible for increasing house prices, crime and prostitution in Auckland and are turning it into a city of sin

          Can you really not see the different, vto?

          There are definitely people who think that all immigration is ok and that any talk about immigration problems is racist. Unfortunately people like Peters, who actually racist, just polarise the situation, making more care needed to be able to discuss the issues.

          “How do the people of Auckland who raise this issue make them racist?”

          Never said they did, and please don’t bring in something else in that way, it just confuses the issue. We are talking about Peters. Not all people of Auckland think the same, so your statement about them really doesn’t make sense.

          • vto 9.2.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 12:13 pm

            hmmmm, I’m not so sure that your comparison in approaches there makes one racist and the other not. Merely pointing out various foibles in one group does not make it racist (provided what is being pointed out is correct, which it appears not to be here).

            If I might offer an example…. some years ago there was a movie called “White Men Can’t Jump”. Is that racist?

            I guess if one is intended to be hurtful, create disharmony, is factually wrong, etc then that is racist. But if one does not have that intention and the facts are correct, is that still racist, evn though the circumstances are unfavourable to the subject people?

            Probably what happens most often is an overlap of the two modus operandi.. Just curious as of course such labels get thrown my direction for raising issues at times.

            … sheesh, it’s a minefield area of discussion …….

            • marty mars 9.2.1.1.1.1
              28 May 2013 at 12:43 pm

              The title “White men can’t jump” is ironic because

              “They play a final game against two hoops legends of the L.A. scene, “The King” and “Duck.” In a very tight game, Sidney and Billy prevail, the winning points coming when Sidney lobs an “alley-oop” pass to Billy, who dunks it.”
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Men_Can%27t_Jump

              irony – “Descriptions or depictions of situational irony, whether in fiction or in non-fiction, serve the communicative function of sharpening or highlighting certain discordant features of reality.”
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

            • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.1.1.2
              28 May 2013 at 1:52 pm

              I’m not so sure that your comparison in approaches there makes one racist and the other not.

              Really?

              One points out how an open immigration policy creates problems while the other states that Chinese immigration causes problems.

            • weka 9.2.1.1.1.3
              28 May 2013 at 4:22 pm

              “Merely pointing out various foibles in one group does not make it racist (provided what is being pointed out is correct, which it appears not to be here).”

              which it appears not to be here

              Yeah vto, that’s the point. Peters is ascribing the problems of a few people (brothel keepers etc) to a whole race of people. That’s a pretty classic definition of racism.

              I guess if one is intended to be hurtful, create disharmony, is factually wrong, etc then that is racist. But if one does not have that intention and the facts are correct, is that still racist, evn though the circumstances are unfavourable to the subject people?

              Can you give an example? One that uses ethnicities rather than very broad categories like ‘white’.

              Racism exists well beyond intention. Institutional racism is often unintended, or outside the awareness of the people who create it, but exists nevertheless.

  10. freedom 10
    28 May 2013 at 9:38 am

    Labour and the Greens needs to consider taking out full page declarations of policy and strategy intent once a month, in every Sunday paper between now and the election. Clear statements, clear policy, every month. (Of course another full page detailing every lie and corruption of democracy that National have been guilty of wouldn’t hurt either.)

    If Labour and The Green Party want to show the country they can work together as a Government, then finding a way to split a page each month is a pretty good way to start.

    There are a lot of very wealthy people within both memberships, and the MPs themselves do not exactly earn a pittance. Conventional letterbox drops and various other promotional print runs are a waste of resources. Not just the financial resources, the sheer volume of paper involved is itself reason enough to reconsider how they communicate their policies. There are many details out there about how many hands a newspaper goes through and how often letterbox materials get trashed before a second pair of eyes even see them.

    Call it a naive statement if you want, but at the most base level:
    In the next twelve months alone, the 48 MPs of Labour and The Green party will receive total remuneration of $ 6,239,200 NZD They have enormous expense accounts, most own their homes, have sizeable investments and basically are not struggling to get by.

    Think of the response to 48 MPs pledging to live on the MODE average salary of roughly 35K for the next year and spending the remaining $4,559,200 of their hard earned dollars on saving Aotearoa. As I said, call it naive, but some battles need sacrifice for the war to be won.
    Guess it depends how badly these people want to save New Zealand ?

    • Watching 10.1
      28 May 2013 at 10:48 am

      spending the remaining $4,559,200

      What are the rules for ‘political message’ spending by political parties outside of the 3 months prior to an election.

    • Winston Smith 10.2
      28 May 2013 at 11:13 am

      Are you serious? MPs spend their own money, yeah right.

      • weka 10.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 11:30 am

        Green Party MPs already donate 10% of their salary back to the party.

      • freedom 10.2.2
        28 May 2013 at 2:31 pm

        Winston,
        that throwaway line beautifully illustrates the difference between what I do and what you do.

        I come to The Standard to actually try and engage others in finding constructive progressive ideas that will help New Zealand. Many here take their visit as an opportunity to simply belittle the wish for change as senseless harpings of the deluded whilst they themselves do little more than regurgitate acrimonious pathologies of social oppression and democratic criminality.

        We all have our moments of mirth, they are essential for sanity. Some comments, my own included, are often overly critical but it is where they originate from that is the point of difference here.

        I see Aotearoa as a country that without revolution or bloodletting or even dramatic loss of the coveted wealth so few have so much of, could actually be more equal, more functional and above all more inclusive than the quagmire of self interest it has become these past thirty years.

        If circumstances in my own life had been different and I had not had a few stumbles on the goat track of circumstance, I can assure you that, just as i do today, all of my resources would be going into making as much noise as possible about how destructive our current structures are. If things improve a little and some of the irons currently in the forge produce tools I can use, you can bet I will be putting my money where my mouth is. Every person who visits The Standard has one thing in common. We are all human, we all matter and we all have the same rights to live the best and most socially productive lives that we can. At present that is patently not possible for the majority of New Zealanders.

        I have to go sign on to unemployment next week. I tried for six weeks not to and I won’t bore you with the difficulties of my current circumstances, but enough to say that living on the generosity of friends and ignoring the protestations of my body to do a couple of hours grunt labour here and there because MSD thinks my skills, my experience and my abilities are “irrelevant to the current job market” only emphasizes the ludicrous environment we are living in. So forgive me when I say that attitudes like yours can not contribute to change. They can only further demoralize expectations and reconfirm the state sanctioned ignorance of what a people should expect from their representatives. New Zealand is in trouble and it needs people to lead by example. Who better than those elected to represent us?

        • Olwyn 10.2.2.1
          28 May 2013 at 2:57 pm

          Well said, Freedom.

          • Anne 10.2.2.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 4:31 pm

            Well said Freedom… and there’s nothing ‘naive’ about your suggestions. Great idea. Pamphlets and target mailing may have it’s place sometimes but it is largely a waste of time these days. Letter boxes are slowly becoming near redundant.

  11. Penny Bright 11
    28 May 2013 at 10:36 am

    URGENT! The Auckland Unitary Plan is based upon UNLAWFUL? ‘high’ population growth projections from the Auckland (Spatial) Plan:

    28 May 2013

    ‘Open Letter’ to ALL New Zealand MPs.

    Which New Zealand MP from which Party will ‘step up to the plate’ and present the following petition to the House, preferably tomorrow, Wednesday 29 May 2013? (Attached)

    That Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics ‘high’ population growth projections, instead of their ‘medium’ population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated – taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon ‘medium’ population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.

    ________________________________________________________________________________

    BACKGROUND:

    The Housing Accord and Special Housing Areas Bill:

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/ris/pdfs/ris-mbie-cspa-may13.pdf

    Regulatory Impact Analysis

    29 Four main options (and two variants of one option) were considered to achieve the objective.

    30 Each option is predicated on the assumptions that: the proposed new Auckland Unitary Plan (which is expected to be finalised in three years) will provide a sufficient basis to address Auckland’s expected land demands and will reduce pressure on land supply and house prices in Auckland; and that other initiatives to reform the resource management system, to improve operation of the resource consent system, and better plan for and fund infrastructure will result in
    improvements for the rest of New Zealand over the medium to long term.

    http://www.mbie.govt.nz/about-us/publications/ris

    Regulatory Impact Statement: Creating Special Housing Areas, 15 April 2013 [244 KB PDF]

    4 Four main options were identified and assessed to address this problem:

    a. Rely solely on the Government’s proposals to reform the resource management system; and

    b. Allow Auckland’s new Unitary Plan (in either part or whole) to take effect from its notification date (September 2013) rather than its intended finalisation date (September 2016); or

    c. Establish, through specific legislation, an Urban Development Agency (UDA) to take a permissive approach to the issuing of resource consents and building consents for larger housing developments and redevelopments in areas suffering severe housing affordability problems and constrained land supply; or

    d. Create special housing areas, through agreement with local councils, in which local councils would exercise more permissive resource consenting powers.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    BUT- THE PURPOSE OF THE AUCKLAND UNITARY PLAN – IS TO IMPLEMENT THE AUCKLAND (SPATIAL) PLAN – WHICH HAS BEEN USING THE ‘HIGH’ POPULATION GROWTH PROJECTIONS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF STATISTICS – WHEN THEY RECOMMENDED ‘MEDIUM’ POPULATION GROWTH PROJECTIONS!

    HOW CAN THIS BE LAWFUL UNDER s.79 (4) (c) of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009?

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0032/latest/DLM3338660.html

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    FURTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

    ‘OPEN LETTER’ to Mayor Len Brown and all Auckland Councillors

    Emailed 27 May 2013:

    (Supporting documentation attached includes:

    1) Letter from NZ Department of Statistics dated 28 March 2011.

    2) Email from Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley received 23 May 2013..

    URGENT TEXT I SENT TO AUCKLAND COUNCILLORS, Monday 28 May 2013 9.40am:
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    URGENT! Auckland Councillors plse confirm YES or NO whether YOU support the OPENING of ALL Ak Council Ak Future Vision/ Auckland Plan Ctte CONFIDENTIAL MINUTES prior to + after the launch of the Ak Spatial Plan – so voting public can see HOW decision was made to rely on Dept of Stats HIGH population growth projection when they advised MEDIUM population growth projection to be used for Ak Plan?

    Plse confirm that advice frm Ak Council Chief Planning Officer Dr Roger Blakeley to rely on Dept of Sats HIGH population growth projection was subjected to competent professional legal advice for lawful compliance with LOCAL GOVT (AUCKLAND COUNCIL) ACT 2009 s.79 (4) (c).

    Also whether decision(s) by Ak Council to rely on Dept of Stats HIGH population growth projection was subjected to competent professional advice for lawful compliance with LOCAL GOVT (AUCKLAND COUNCIL) ACT 2009 s.79 (4) (c)?
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    (I have already received text messages back from ……………… and Christine Fletcher, both supporting my request for the CONFIDENTIAL minutes relating to the Auckland Spatial Plan to be made publicly available).

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0032/latest/DLM3338660.html

    Part 6
    Spatial planning for Auckland
    Part 6: added, on 1 November 2010, by section 31 of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Act 2010 (2010 No 36).

    79Spatial plan for Auckland

    (1)The Auckland Council must prepare and adopt a spatial plan for Auckland.

    (2)The purpose of the spatial plan is to contribute to Auckland’s social, economic, environmental, and cultural well-being through a comprehensive and effective long-term (20- to 30-year) strategy for Auckland’s growth and development.

    (3)For the purposes of subsection (2), the spatial plan will—

    (a)set a strategic direction for Auckland and its communities that integrates social, economic, environmental, and cultural objectives; and

    (b)outline a high-level development strategy that will achieve that direction and those objectives; and

    (c)enable coherent and co-ordinated decision making by the Auckland Council (as the spatial planning agency) and other parties to determine the future location and timing of critical infrastructure, services, and investment within Auckland in accordance with the strategy; and

    (d) provide a basis for aligning the implementation plans, regulatory plans, and funding programmes of the Auckland Council.
    (4)The spatial plan must—

    (a)recognise and describe Auckland’s role in New Zealand; and

    (b)visually illustrate how Auckland may develop in the future, including how growth may be sequenced and how infrastructure may be provided; and

    (c)provide an evidential base to support decision making for Auckland, including evidence of trends, opportunities, and constraints within Auckland; and

    (d)identify the existing and future location and mix of—

    (i)residential, business, rural production, and industrial activities within specific geographic areas within Auckland; and

    (ii)critical infrastructure, services, and investment within Auckland (including, for example, services relating to cultural and social infrastructure, transport, open space, water supply, wastewater, and stormwater, and services managed by network utility operators); and

    (e)identify nationally and regionally significant—

    (i)recreational areas and open-space areas within Auckland; and

    (ii)ecological areas within Auckland that should be protected from development; and

    (iii)environmental constraints on development within Auckland (for example, flood-prone or unstable land); and

    (iv)landscapes, areas of historic heritage value, and natural features within Auckland; and

    (f)identify policies, priorities, land allocations, and programmes and investments to implement the strategic direction and specify how resources will be provided to implement the strategic direction.

    Section 79: added, on 1 November 2010, by section 31 of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Act 2010 (2010 No 36).

    Please be advised that it my intention to urgently petition Parliament to request the House NOT to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill,

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Legislation/Bills/d/0/a/00DBHOH_BILL12225_1-Housing-Accords-and-Special-Housing-Areas-Bill.htm

    until the lawfulness of Auckland Council’s reliance upon the Department of Statistics HIGH population growth projection, instead of their recommended MEDIUM population growth projection, (as outlined in the attached ‘Auckland Growth Projections for Spatial Plan’ letter dated 28 March 2011), has been properly and thoroughly investigated.

    Please confirm that as a responsible and law-abiding Local Government elected representative, that YOU will not act precipitously, and sign off on the above-mentioned (Auckland) Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill, until the lawfulness of Auckland Council’s reliance upon the Department of Statistics HIGH population growth projection, instead of their recommended MEDIUM population growth projection, (as outlined in the attached ‘Auckland Growth Projections for Spatial Plan’ letter dated 28 March 2011, has been properly and thoroughly investigated.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    (‘Democracy for Developers’?)
    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?page_id=137

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    ……………….

    2 attachments — Download all attachments
    AUCKLAND GROWTH PROJECTIONS FOR SPATIAL PL;AN DEPT OF STATISTICS SNZ letter.pdf
    119K View Download

    AUCKLAND COUNCIL GROWTH Response to Ms Penny Bright – word version of email from Roger Blakeley 23-05-13 (3).doc
    252K View Download

    PETITION Parliament not to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill … 28 May 2013.doc
    37K View Download

  12. Sanctuary 12
    28 May 2013 at 11:50 am

    You know, people would take Martyn Bradbury over at the dailyblog a lot more seriously if he didn’t make up obvious, easily disproved conspiracy theories trying to big up his own little pet obsession with the Mana party. honestly, why does he insist on drinking the conspiracy Kool aid so uncritically?

    • weka 12.1
      28 May 2013 at 11:54 am

      Linky?

    • NickS 12.2
      28 May 2013 at 6:05 pm

      Ah Bomber, so much good stuff, with a leavening of critical thinking fail, for well over a decade now.

      Climate change being one of them.

      So just do what I do and skip the derp to save yourself.

  13. prism 13
    28 May 2013 at 11:55 am

    I made a comment that Gerry Brownlee would surely not be re-elected again. But the feeling from the Chch faction was that his electorate is so blue that they would support him again despite his virtually spiteful attitude to many of the city’s people and services.

    What if all left-wing people in his electorate took in left-wing voters for long enough for them to register as voters? Tilt the see-saw somehow. Wish something could be done.

    • vto 13.1
      28 May 2013 at 12:00 pm

      The blue seats in Chch will swing harder blue and the red seats in Chch will swing harder red.

      Brownlee has ensured that houses in the blue seats were repaired first, despite having diddly squat damage, while those homes in the red seats out east with the most hardcore damage have been left to last.

      This is the reality.

      Fuck the blue seats.

      • prism 13.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 12:20 pm

        You say that blue seat houses got faster results though they had less damage. This is correct for the people I know. But perhaps the EQC have done the smallest and easiest jobs first. And perhaps they are in the ‘better’ and more stable areas while cheap workers housing has been clustered and more badly damaged.in the unstable ‘red’ left-voting zones nearer the sandy coast.

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 12:25 pm

          I’d say that is more likely as structural damage beyond the EQC limit would require much more assessment and planning; however if facts got out that richer suburbs were prioritised first for political reasons, there would be, ahem, social unrest.

          • vto 13.1.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 12:40 pm

            That doesn’t wash CV. There have been many more homes in the east with “easy” repairs than in the west, yet still they have been left to wait.

            You may recall that Akaroa holiday homes were done some time ago now too.

            The city of many tales is also becoming more divided imo. “Tis a strange place these days. Lots of stories and things going on. It is volatile, it is uncertain, some are up some are down. As I suggested some time ago, how the city ends up developing is a big wide open question. The blueprint is of lmited use in this. The job is massive. The job is just about too big. Too much.

            My guess is that it will end up developing organically over another set of decades and generations. And that be a long time to wait ……. meantime it is all diggers and dust and tradesmen and utes and builders and cones and stop go men and now its freakin’ started snowing! Lovely…

    • NickS 13.2
      28 May 2013 at 6:08 pm

      Having listen to some of those supporters, they don’t really pay full attention to the bad shit Brownlee does, plus he tends to deal with issues in his electorate and suck up to the various churches.

  14. weka 14
    28 May 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Can someone please tell me how to revert back to google.co.nz from google.com? I changed to google.com the other day for some reason and I can’t remember how to change back. I’m using firefox (mac).

    • Lanthanide 14.1
      28 May 2013 at 12:57 pm

      Hopefully this helps for you.

      1. Go to Google.com in a new window.
      2. In the very bottom right hand corner should be a link to Google.co.nz, click it.
      3. Open a new window and type in Google.com, it should now automatically redirect to google.co.nz

      • weka 14.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 5:28 pm

        Thanks! I was using a search page set to my preferences, hence no .co.nz at the bottom of the page. But the main google.com one had one. Cheers.

  15. prism 15
    28 May 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Another think. Why don’t they use hovercraft in Dunedin? They know that they get serious snow often, and people are trapped in homes, can’t get to the airport etc. I think that Dunedin needed this type of vehicle available to emergency needs more than their expensive all weather stadium. There needs to be a few and they could be used as a tourist feature between emergency needs.

    • Dv 15.1
      28 May 2013 at 12:27 pm

      Dunedin is hilly

    • McFlock 15.2
      28 May 2013 at 2:18 pm

      Don’t get me started on the fucking stadium 🙂

      But really it’s not too bad – most of the main roads are gritted/clear by mid-morning. But by the all the school have shut, so half the town has to stay home to take care of the sprogs. And a few of the hill suburbs are stuffed no matter what – main roads might get clear, but there’s 50 metres of side street needed to travel down to get to one.

      But it doesn’t usually last more than a day or so, so no worries. It’s hardly “serious snow”. Anyone from Q’town would laugh at the thought.

      By the way, in addition to having serious “likes to do down hills like a truck on black ice” issues, hovercraft are also very noisy.

    • NickS 15.3
      28 May 2013 at 6:10 pm

      I think a couple of snow plows + more road gritters would be safer and cheaper 😛

  16. ghostrider888 16
    28 May 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Well, this is really helpful from that white piece of sh*t Van der Heyden, soon to be on the Board of Auckland International Airport
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10886643
    re the Chinese, “don’t ever trust them…never.”
    Ha, wotta dick! (despite the love of God, it is a challenge to bear some idiots).

    • Colonial Viper 16.1
      28 May 2013 at 12:38 pm

      Just who you want at the top of our main exporter, and also our main airport. ***Facepalm***

      (Not that I fully disagree with his point, but how about a little bit of sutblety please!)

      • ghostrider888 16.1.1
        28 May 2013 at 12:49 pm

        Unfreakin’ believable, considering the monitoring of media that goes on. Talk about living in the Dark Ages. What a f*ckwit (pay-day) 😉

    • Matt 16.2
      28 May 2013 at 12:44 pm

      I think you’re taking it a bit out of context. As someone who has done a lot of business sourcing components from China, you’d be foolish to leave anything to chance. This is echoed by our (Chinese) purchasing rep in China, and our attorney in Auckland who is also Chinese.

      A couple years ago I was reading everything I could find about doing business there, and a universal recurring theme was that the guy you are working with will attempt to sell or trade on every piece of proprietary information you let them in on, will underdeliver whenever given an opportunity, and will act as a double agent with whatever company they are dealing with on your behalf. And contracts are utterly unenforceable. It was always characterized as “they’re not being dishonest, it’s just how things are done”, and it is.

      • ghostrider888 16.2.1
        28 May 2013 at 12:53 pm

        That is correct, so?
        Accommodation and Assimilation, or have your exports left out in the cold container.

        • Colonial Viper 16.2.1.1
          28 May 2013 at 1:00 pm

          Can’t trust those slanty eyes

          But they got all the money, they are the next Pacific super power (Japan is an economic corpse still walking), and dim sum is so very nice.

          • ghostrider888 16.2.1.1.1
            28 May 2013 at 1:08 pm

            Really, you do have to wonder about people in this country (as a generalization).

            Todays pat-on-the-back; Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the most insightful of all… 😎

            • Colonial Viper 16.2.1.1.1.1
              28 May 2013 at 1:31 pm

              Good on ya mate! A man has to earn his lager.

              • ghostrider888 …
                28 May 2013 at 1:35 pm

                very kind; brought tears to my eyes; still, we are a collective looking forwards.(maybe a video, and some tasty cheese to go as we settle in the camp).
                Kind Regards.

      • ak 16.2.2
        28 May 2013 at 1:30 pm

        I was reading everything I could find about doing business there, and a universal recurring theme…

        ….and like your good self, dear wee tentacles Keyster, Van durr hey, thin Guy and all other solid upright colonial snipers will keep repeating the arrogant supercilious bombast and still never, ever, understand why the mutton still sits on the wharf….

      • prism 16.2.3
        28 May 2013 at 2:43 pm

        Matt
        Can’t find it on google but I remember hearing about a NZ book publisher and I think its Hong Kong agent used its legal position to onsell the books to China. The agent continued to handle the books as legally agreed in Hong Kong I think but used its entrepreneurial contacts in China on its own behalf but had the right to sign documents which it did then for its own profit.

        China being a big market it meant a big loss of potential profits for the publisher who had to view it as making a brand entry which they could follow up with similar product sold by themselves.

    • prism 16.3
      28 May 2013 at 2:48 pm

      For those who like to keep an eye on Winston P. This was him as Foreign Affairs Minister.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10503174

  17. ghostrider888 17
    28 May 2013 at 12:47 pm

    from the media,
    -New Zealanders not very smart with their smart-phones (16% of all smart-phone users ripped off last year- NetSafe) yet many “can’t cope without them”.

    RNZ on National Science Challenges
    -Gluckman agrees “we don’t ‘weigh’ basic sciences funding high enough in New Zealand.
    -Kate McGrath (hope that’s correct) concerns about reduction of funding, away from basic science towards the scope of the National Science Challenges.
    -Jeff Tallon, Professor of Physics, Vic. – ‘poor association with the neccessary growth in technologies, physical sciences poorly represented; ‘Energy’ research missing.
    More missed opportunity navel-gazing.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon

    but then, “Roger and Val Have Just Got In”.

    ‘Strangeways’ -“you can take the boy out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the boy”.

    Die Todten reiten schnell.

  18. aerobubble 18
    28 May 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Small business watch out, fracking is threatening German Beers, small breweries who have their own wells are threatened by the gas fracking boom.

  19. Tim 19
    28 May 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Interesting …. the OZ Greens (and Sky News) is reporting that ASIO has been hacked by the Chinese.
    Oh Goodness me!

    • Arfamo 19.1
      28 May 2013 at 5:16 pm

      Maybe only because they didn’t have any frozen lamb on the docks that could be held up instead.

    • Murray Olsen 19.2
      29 May 2013 at 1:04 am

      Haha. As if ASIO isn’t trying to hack the Chinese Embassy. We intercept their communications and send them on to the seppos. There are no clean spies.

  20. Jenny Kirk 20
    28 May 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Must-see tonight’s documentary on Maori TV at 8:30 pm:

    Festival Documentary: The Shock Doctrine
    Adapted from Naomi Klein’s 2007 Book, the Shock Doctrine is a Gripping Deconstruction of How Free-market Policies Have Come to Dominate the World Through the Exploitation of Disaster-shocked People and Countries. (premiere)

  21. Rich the other 21
    28 May 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Labour gets hammered again in parliament .

    When will they learn ,green = political suicide.
    The topic west coast mining , the Bathurst project and it’s obvious merits.
    It was revealed that Damion Oconner had written to the Govt pleading for action on this project and encouraging the govt to do all it can to get this project up and running.
    Good on ya Damion.

    Damion is probably in the crap with his spineless leaders but it exposes a rift and any body who is interested in prosperity for our country will be dismayed at labours stance on this proposal.
    What’s so bizare about labours stance is the fact that this land has been mined before has no special status or protection.
    It offers more than $1 billion to our economy .

    Unless they change their attitude to this , it will haunt them all the way to the next election.

    • Morrissey 22.1
      28 May 2013 at 8:14 pm

      Is my month up yet?

      I’ve served out a one-week ban, a one-month ban, then a two-month ban.

      In addition, I was banned from Whaleoil’s site for two days, and it looks like I’m permanently banned from Brian Edward’s dire cheerleading site for self-serving scum.

      Yet I have survived, and thrived.

      Suck it up, sucker.

  23. Opium Eater 23
    28 May 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Hi everyone, I used to comment on here a bit a few years ago but I’ve forgotten how it works – is there an easy way to see if someone replies to you or do you have to trawl through the posts again?

    • weka 23.1
      28 May 2013 at 11:36 pm

      If you put your user name into the search engine it will pop up all your comments. You can then open each one to see if anyone has replied.

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