Open mike 30/06/2011

107 comments on “Open mike 30/06/2011 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   30 June 2011 at 6:35 am

   ‘
   EMA say they can weather the Thompson Storm.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10735208'>EMA

   The EMA must expel Alasdair Thompson if it is to retain any credibility as an organisation.

   If they don’t then actions need to be taken against them by those entrusted with ensuring democracy and fairness.

   For instance though Parliament never released the name of those lobby groups given privileged access to parliament.

   You can bet that the EMA is definitely one of them.

   This privilege not available to normal citizens should be suspended from the EMA until the time that they distance themselves from Alasdair Thompson.

   In a democracy an organisation that tolerates bigotry should have no special arrangement that allows them to influence public policy.

   Every woman MP no matter their political affiliation should demand that the EMA special access ‘keys’ and ‘swipe cards’ should be taken off them, until Thompson is dismissed.

   The EMA claim that they can weather the Thompson Storm.

   I doubt they could weather that storm. As a lobby group they have been very effective, having the ear of parliament, achieving much of their agenda.

   The EMA’s special access to parliament and parliamentarians would be a big part of this success.

   Till Thomson is sacked the call on the floor of parliament from every women MP should be:

   “Remove the EMA special access now! ”

   “EMA say they can weather the Thompson Storm”

   The EMA must expel Alasdair Thompson if it is to retain any credibility as an organisation.

   If they don’t then actions need to be taken against them by our representatives, those entrusted by us to ensuring fairness.

   The EMA need to learn that women are not powerless, and that a group that tolerates the prejudice behind justifying lower pay rates, will pay a price.

   Parliament never released the name of those lobby groups given privileged access to parliament.

   But you can guarantee that the EMA is definitely one of them.

   This privilege not available to normal citizens should be suspended from the EMA until the time that they distance themselves from Alasdair Thompson.

   In a democracy an organisation that tolerates bigotry should have no special arrangement that allows them to influence public policy.

   This should be a given!

   Every female MP no matter their political affiliation should demand that the EMA special access ‘keys’ and ‘swipe cards’ should be taken off them, until Thompson is dismissed.

   The EMA have claimed; “The EMA can weather the Thompson Storm.”

   Let us see if they can “weather” having their special access removed. As a lobby group they have been very effective in achieving their aims, having the ear of parliament would play a large part in that success.

   In my opinion the EMA’s special access to parliament and parliamentarians is an affront to democracy in itself, the fact that this group tolerates bigotry against women makes it worse.

   Till Thomson is sacked the call on the floor of parliament from every women MP should be:

   “Remove the EMA special access now! “
   • Lanthanide 1.1

     30 June 2011 at 12:50 pm

     “If they don’t then actions need to be taken against them by those entrusted with ensuring democracy and fairness.”

     Honestly I didn’t read any further than this.

     I would have thought it was democratic and fair to let a private organisation (no matter how public their profile) manage their affairs as best they see fit. If they do something that discredits them in the eye of the public, then that is their just deserts.
   • Jim Nald 1.2

     30 June 2011 at 1:13 pm

     The poor man is trying hard not to join the masses at the dole queue.

     I wipe away a tear.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10735421
     • Adders 1.2.1

       30 June 2011 at 2:57 pm

       Maybe he’s come down with man flu.

       http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/get-well-soon-guys-man-flu-is-real-study-finds/article2077962/

       (“Women are simply less likely to succumb to bugs, the Telegraph reports.

       Compared with men, an Australian study found, women have a “much stronger immune response” to rhinoviruses – the germs responsible for the common cold.”)
2. tc 2

   30 June 2011 at 7:23 am

   This may have been answered before but does anyone have actual numbers of extra police in sth akl under Collins.

   Also the number/cost of all the extra consultants and various toe cutters the nats have brought in to do ministerial portfolios dirty work?
   • Treetop 2.1

     30 June 2011 at 2:24 pm

     I answered and said that 300 extra were put into sth Auckland but this was not under Collins. Good question you ask because there was not an increase in the budget for police.
3. g_man 3

   30 June 2011 at 7:45 am

   So, following on from Zetetic’s post at http://thestandard.org.nz/howzat/ where he opined that “If best Key can promise for the economy is an increase in a tiny portion of tourism, some time in the future, when a plane that isn’t even operational might start flying here direct from Mumbai, we’re in trouble”, we have this news:

   “New Zealand is one step closer to reaching a free trade agreement with India and Kiwi companies are optimistic about their prospects in one of the world’s fastest growing markets.”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10735338

   Good news, hmmm?

   Of course, I guess Zetetic will still be outraged about the lack of tourism …
   • Bored 3.1

     30 June 2011 at 7:50 am

     G, the devil is in the detail. If its a “fair” trade agreement as opposed to the standard “free” trade agreement I am all for it. Previous so called free trade agreements have probably alerted Zets “shit radar”.
     • ianmac 3.1.1

       30 June 2011 at 9:44 am

       Still. Good news that we line up our Defence Force with that of a Nuclear Armed Country. Cosy bedfellows?
       • prism 3.1.1.1

         30 June 2011 at 10:06 am

         ianmac – Saves on uniforms too! To be cheap is our aim isn’t it? And getting nastier too.
         • Adders 3.1.1.1.1

           30 June 2011 at 2:25 pm

           See http://www.thestandard.org.nz/keys-to-do-list/ , third to last.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.2

     30 June 2011 at 1:34 pm

     No, it’s not as it’s unsustainable. All it’ll really do is put a bit more money in some peoples pockets while destroying our ability to live as we will have destroyed the environment to get those dollars.
   • ianupnorth 3.3

     30 June 2011 at 4:28 pm

     Oh good, we can buy cheaper T-shirts made in sweat shops whilst their very affluent bosses can holiday here, their film industry can gain big subsidies and we can export, well….. our call centre business (or what’s left of it) to Bangalore…
4. Tiger Mountain 4

   30 June 2011 at 8:05 am

   No one involved with the “Macsynna King” book comes out looking any good, but book banning or burning leads to worse places. I’d rather see piles of them sitting in stores unsold then quietly remaindered, or dumped on Wisharts property.

   And while I’m on mike, these FB ‘mobs’ seem like bigoted internet talk back, the last pile of crap page of significance bought us a nice Lord Jackson supported anti union march on Labour Day.
   • The Voice of Reason 4.1

     30 June 2011 at 8:19 am

     I dunno, TM. The two chains have declined to stock the Smacsyna King book. That’s not a ban, it’s a moral decision to put good taste ahead of profits. That’s rare in business, aye? As I said on Open Mike a couple of days ago, if Tepco or BP put the public good ahead of private gain, the world would be a better place.
      
      
     • Morrissey 4.1.1

       30 June 2011 at 9:32 am

       That’s not a ban, it’s a moral decision to put good taste ahead of profits

       These bookshop owners are moral, are they? Have you checked whether they have refused to stock A Life by Tony Blair?
       • The Voice of Reason 4.1.1.1

         30 June 2011 at 9:37 am

         I think their morality may well be selective, Mozza. But I have nothing but praise for the decision in this case.
   • The Voice of Reason 4.2

     30 June 2011 at 9:35 am

     Wow, just spent a few minutes trawling through the fb page. The page itself calls for a boycott, not a ban, but the tone of many comments is that hanging is too good for them. An amazing outpouring of ignorance, hatred and bile. As you say, TM, just like talkback!

     BTW, just to save people the bother of reading the book, I thhink I can sum it up in four words:

     ‘It wasn’t me, honest’.
     • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.2.1

       30 June 2011 at 9:41 am

       Hanging is too good for Macsyna King.

       I did not like the idea of her making money from the deaths for which she was (at best for her) partly responsible. I understand that Wishart has said she is not and, if that’s true, that must be the end of the issue. People write books about all sorts of horrible things, yet no-one suggests that books about, say, the holocaust should be banned on the grounds that someone is profiting from that misery.
       • lprent 4.2.1.1

         30 June 2011 at 10:03 am

         I heard on nine to noon that Wishart has said that she will not be making anything from the book. Take that with whatever skepticism you use with Wishart statements.
         • Vicky32 4.2.1.1.1

           30 June 2011 at 6:30 pm

           . Take that with whatever skepticism you use with Wishart statements.

           Meh, he’s not always wrong. In fact, I believe he’s seldom if ever wrong on matters of fact – just his interpretation of them.
           • lprent 4.2.1.1.1.1

             30 June 2011 at 6:48 pm

             Decades ago Wishart used to check himself and his sources much more thoroughly. However I suspect that he has been falling subject to hubris more and more over the years and doing less and less checking when he ‘knows’ the answers.

             These days Wishart is a classic case of where a lack of knowledge makes him completely credulous when it comes to both the sources of facts as well as the interpretation. It is really hard to find anything in his recent books that stacks up as being of much relevance beyond being Wisharts opinion (ie not his interpretation – because that would have required that he thought about it and judged it).

             He is wrong in facts as well as interpretation. The codswallop he has used about Takuu was a classic example – where he seems to have used newspaper clippings from journalists about other islands thousands of kms away as what he made his mind up from. Not to mention his other rationales for being too lazy to actually investigate.
             eg…
             http://thestandard.org.nz/there-once-was-an-island-in-theatres-this-week/#comment-343639
             http://thestandard.org.nz/there-once-was-an-island-in-theatres-this-week/#comment-343925
             http://www.baptist.org.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1429:clearing-the-air&catid=172:general&Itemid=196

             Umm I wrote a post about a particularly daft example…. Yep here.
       • prism 4.2.1.2

         30 June 2011 at 1:04 pm

         Moral outrage is so warming at a time of winter frosts isn’t it! And the superior thinking of FB ticking yes/no like/don’t like is an example of deep thought about the King book about the Kahui twins? North and South have often done stories about people who have been involved in violence and crime so what’s the difference here. Ian Wishhart is different of course but shouldn’t be banned as is happening.

         Burning/banning books because ‘I don’t like the subject, the author, the opinions’ is dangerous. Inciting hatred by denigrating some person or group might be a valid reason. But shining a light on dark doings through a book is useful. Especially if we absorb the detail and use that knowledge to change behaviour so the dark doings don’t occur again.
     • ianmac 4.2.2

       30 June 2011 at 9:46 am

       Fancy banning or boycotting a book unread!
       • The Voice of Reason 4.2.2.1

         30 June 2011 at 10:12 am

         Nothing wrong with boycotting a book without reading it, Ian. I’ve personally boycotted Mein Kampf all my life, because I don’t have to read the thing to now what it means. In this case, King and Wishart are trying to gain from the death of the two kids. Wishart intends to profit financially, King intends to promote her own claim of innocence.

         Neither of them are likely to be interested in telling the truth anyway, so the book is unlikely to be anything other than a work of fiction.
         • ianmac 4.2.2.1.1

           30 June 2011 at 10:53 am

           VOR. I’m reading a book currently about Stalin in the 1930s. I couldn’t tell if it was worth reading until I had read at least part of it. (Excellent by the way. “The Stalin Epigram.”) Sure it is very unlikely that I would ever read a Wishart book but I rather resent others Censoring my reading a legally published book.
           • The Voice of Reason 4.2.2.1.1.1

             30 June 2011 at 11:46 am

             But no one is censoring your reading, Ian. Get it off the net if you want it or go to any of the other bookshops that are stocking it. The call is for a boycott, not a ban. The Stalin book sounds interesting. He’s still rather popular in Russia, often ranking just below Putin in the preferred leader polls.
             • Penny Bright …

               1 July 2011 at 12:45 am

               Seen this? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10735464&ref=rss

               Ian Wishart answers a number of questions about Macsyna King and why he wrote ‘Breaking the Silence’.

               This is a HUGE ‘freedom of expression’ issue and I support 100% Ian Wishart’s right to write and publish his book ‘Breaking the Silence’, and MY right as a customer to be able to purchase it from the Warehouse or Paper Plus or Whitcoulls.

               For goodness sake – it wasn’t Ian Wishart who killed the Kahui baby boys!
               The CRAP that he’s getting for writing about the killing of the Kahui baby boys is worse than the KILLERS?

               Duh?

               If Ian’s book results in the Police reopening the Kahui case and it results in a conviction for the deaths of those poor little babies – then surely that will be the outcome that most people want?

               Who is this ‘Chris’ that set up the ‘Boycott the Macsyna King Book’ facebook and LIED about Macsyna profiting from ‘Breaking the Silence’ when that was NEVER the case?

               What are ‘Chris’s motives, and with whom is he connected?

               Use some basic logic here folks!

               Who stands to benefit most from trying to ‘silence’ Ian wishart who is trying to ‘break the silence’ about the causes of child abuse in general and the Kahui case in particular?

               The killed Kahui baby boys – or the KILLERS of the Kahui baby boys?

               Our rights to freedom of expression are under siege.

               Whatever you may think about Ian Wishart and his views on a number of issues is surely NOT the point here.

               It is a matter of principle.

               All those who believe in freedom of expression should be stepping up to the plate – because WHO IS NEXT????

               Penny Bright
               http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
               • felix …

                 1 July 2011 at 12:54 am

                 Sorry Penny, but you simply don’t have a right as a customer to be able to purchase it from the Warehouse or Paper Plus or Whitcoulls, nor from any other specific outlet.
                 • Penny Bright …

                   1 July 2011 at 12:59 am

                   I would have if The Warehouse and Paper Plus – who originally WERE going to stock ‘Breaking the Silence’ were pressured into not doing so.

                   That is NOT ok.

                   WHO IS NEXT????

                   Penny Bright
                   http://waterpresure.wordpress.com
                   • felix …

                     1 July 2011 at 7:29 am

                     With respect, you would have an opportunity, not a right.

                     Ian can write it. You can read it. The rights don’t extend much further than that, do they?

                     Ian’s a publisher. Does he have to publish my books? Why not?
                   • Vicky32 …

                     1 July 2011 at 4:56 pm

                     WHO IS NEXT????

                     Yes, that’s the question that matters… People need to see that!
               • Vicky32 …

                 1 July 2011 at 5:15 pm

                 What are ‘Chris’s motives, and with whom is he connected?

                 An interesting question! Amongst the abusive names I got called when I went there and spoke against the boycott (they included crack whore, lmao,
                 • Vicky32 …

                   1 July 2011 at 8:43 pm

                   Opps, I meant to add – that the other accusation against me was that I was a member of Macsyna’s family! (If I was, I’d have said so.)
         • Treetop 4.2.2.1.2

           30 June 2011 at 3:01 pm

           VoR Until the killer/s of Chris and Cru are charged with murder the King/Wishart book is exploiting the death of Chris and Cru. If there is ever a right time to write a book, it would be once the killer/s are sentenced.

           Do I need to read the book to establish if King or Wishart know who murdered Chris and Cru?

           Wishart has stated that King mentions the killer. King needs to go down to the police station with a lawyer and tell the police everything, (I would not allow how I feel about the police to stop myself from talking to them were my two babies murdered).

           I don’t give a shit about any talk of censorship as the book can be accessed in NZ. What really pisses me off, is that two beautiful babies were murdered and the King/Wishart book is EXPLOITATION.
           • Morrissey 4.2.2.1.2.1

             30 June 2011 at 6:47 pm

             Something called “Treetop” is just a tad confused.

             1.) If there is ever a right time to write a book, it would be once the killer/s are sentenced.

             What? Is there a law against writing a book now? Are you some sort of marketing genius that has assessed the optimum time to release books?

             2.) Do I need to read the book to establish if King or Wishart know who murdered Chris and Cru?

             I don’t think anyone cares what you need to do. If you know who it was, by the way, why don’t you tell the rest of us?

             3.) I don’t give a shit about any talk of censorship…

             You illiberal dolt. I think it’s offensive to read ignorant comments on The Standard but I wouldn’t dream of censoring you. Why would you stop me being able to buy a book?

             4.) What really pisses me off, is that two beautiful babies were murdered and the King/Wishart book is EXPLOITATION.

             Every book that’s ever been written is exploitation. What the hell are you on about?
             • Treetop …

               1 July 2011 at 3:38 pm

               Morrissey in response to your questions below my questions numbered 1 – 4

               1. If there is ever a right time to right a book, it would be once the killer/s are sentenced?
               1.1 Is there a law about writing a book now?
               No there is not and I did not say that there was a law.

               1.2 Are you some sort of market genius that has assessed the optimum time to release a book?
               The killer/s are still out there and were the book to aid the killer/s in anyway this would not be the case were there a conviction.

               2. Do I need to read the book to estabish if King or Wishart know who murdered Chris and Cru?
               2.1 If you know who it was why don’t you tell the rest of us?
               Well what is stopping King and Wishart from going to the police as they appear to know more than I do about who took two innocent lives.?

               3. I don’t give a shit about any talk of censorship?
               3.1 Why would you stop me from being able to buy the book?
               How am I stopping you from being able to buy the book?
               Just because some book stores will not sell it this is not stopping people from buying the book. The book has not been banned, some outlets chose not to stock it.

               4.What really pisses me off, is that two beautiful babies were murdered and the King/Wishart book is EXPLOITATION.
               4.1 What the hell are you on about?
               Had Wishart written a book about the background of the mother’s of murdered children, there may be some common threads on why their babies and children are fatally harmed or were they to have survived been brain damaged. The risk factors of the mother and child would be better understood and hopefully prevented.

               Something called Treetop is a tad confused. You are entitled to have an opinion. I note your comment in 4.2.2.1.3.1 “Actually, Vicky, Wishart is a callous systemic liar. He gives pride of place in his ridiculous monthly magazine to notorious liars and hate mongers like Mark Steyn and Miranda Devine. Have you read any of his unhinged rants against Palestinians and Iraqis?

               Ian Wishart is dedicated to telling untruth.”

               Yes I know my name is not Vicky
         • Vicky32 4.2.2.1.3

           30 June 2011 at 6:42 pm

           In this case, King and Wishart are trying to gain from the death of the two kids. Wishart intends to profit financially, King intends to promote her own claim of innocence.
           Neither of them are likely to be interested in telling the truth anyway, so the book is unlikely to be anything other than a work of fiction.

           I couldn’t agree less! You simply assume Wishart intends to profit financially, which I seriously doubt – I think he sees himself as a campaigner….
           I know you are against everything Wishart stands for, and so am I (well, 85% of it), but he would not knowingly tell an untruth.
           • Morrissey 4.2.2.1.3.1

             30 June 2011 at 6:57 pm

             I know you are against everything Wishart stands for, and so am I (well, 85% of it), but he would not knowingly tell an untruth.

             Actually, Vicky, Wishart is a callous and systematic liar. He gives pride of place in his ridiculous monthly magazine to notorious liars and hate-mongers like Mark Steyn and Miranda Devine. Have you read any of his unhinged rants against Palestinians and Iraqis?

             Ian Wishart is dedicated to telling untruth.
             • Vicky32 …

               30 June 2011 at 7:14 pm

               Yes, Morrissey, you’re right… Scarily, I think it’s because he believes Steyn and Devine and the rest of the rubbish he spouts is the truth! I think he wouldn’t knowingly lie, but I believe he is a “useful idiot”. That’s IMO worse, and rather sad. I would hate to believe he’s actually a knowing liar, which I don’t believe he is.
               I have read his evil magazine (my right-wing sister recommended it) but it makes me vomit.
               • logie97 …

                 30 June 2011 at 10:07 pm

                 Close-up tonight.
                 I missed in what capacity Christine-watch-my-earrings-move-with-my-angry-headshake-Rankin was on the show, (assume as Family Commission spokesperson) but she wasn’t half extolling the virtues of Wishart’s book.
                 “All New Zealanders must read this book. I know what’s in there even though I haven’t read it myself!”

                 What?

                 Incidentally, Christine Rankin was appointed to the Family Commission a couple of years ago now but, from memory, she didn’t actually have a job description for her appointment – has one been written for her yet?
   • William Joyce 4.3

     30 June 2011 at 2:43 pm

     I am also uncomfortable about the “boycott”. While it is called a boycott, it is effectively a form of censorship by applying economic pressure on the booksellers. And I am worried that it smacks of the sort of moral panic (a la NY mosque) that we see so often in the US of A – god forbid that we go down that road.
     Like someone said, I too would be happy if it just sat on the shelves. Not that I wouldn’t read the book at the library, but I would not want to directly contribute to the promotion of “her side of the story” – not when the police should have been the first ones told.
      
     As an amateur historian, I have often read source material that people would find objectionable but it allows me to see the context first hand.
      
     The FB page is a way for people to express their feelings, though I wish they would cease from the lynch mob comments.
     The book is a lightening rod for the frustration people felt in the face of the arrogant wall of silence from the family, the failure of the court case and the fact that there is still no one held accountable for the murders.
     More so at the prospect that Macsyna King would be getting attention when she is either  guilty or, if not, was part of the cover up to protect the person guilty of murdering babies.
     BTW – Someone at the inquest has fingered her as the murder
   • Vicky32 4.4

     30 June 2011 at 6:15 pm

     and while I’m on mike, these FB ‘mobs’ seem like bigoted internet talk back, the last pile of crap page of significance bought us a nice Lord Jackson supported anti union march on Labour Day.

     Exactly right… I went to that group and it’s worse than you could possibly imagine! I made the mistake of signing up to comment, and got abused myself, as a “shithead”, “He-she”, “crack addict”, a childless spinster (which is hilarious) and last but not least I was repeatedly told that I must be a relative of Macsyna King! (If I was, I would have said so, but they were missing the point. What’s next – book-burning, a la Texas?)
5. Robert Atack 5

   30 June 2011 at 8:33 am

   Have to say I’m loving what is happening in Greece at the moment
   I wonder if New Zealanders would ever get hungry and desperate enough to take to the streets, or are we more like German Jews ? Passively going to the shower block?
   Interesting times

   http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/29/inside_greeks_general_strike_video_report
   • Bored 5.1

     30 June 2011 at 8:48 am

     Robert, I for one applaud all those brave enough to stand against tyranny whether political or financial. What worries me is the escalation of violence – which one could argue might be innevitable- real people get real wounds / real death.

     On the issue at hand the Casino is still running but all bets are off as the players run out of chips. Germany and the financial world could be left with a pile of chips backed by IOUs from every country in Europe with no way of collecting. As the masters in these countries look to flog their people so that they can last a little longer at the table things will get ugly.

     Those of us in NZ who think these things wont affect us think again, it is going to be an interesting year as Shonkey tries to keep non existent cash coming in to prop up tax cuts etc (based upon non payable IOUs quietly promised against state assets to be sold and rented back to us).
     • uke 5.1.1

       30 June 2011 at 10:06 am

       Apparently Goldman Sachs & Co. have quite a few side bets going that Greece will default. The whole thing is rigged so they can’t lose and will make a packet either way.
       • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1

         30 June 2011 at 10:27 am

         Gotta admire these guys. Goldman makes other investment banks quake in their boots. To bad for the people of Greece though, oh well just more collateral damage. The politicians will do OK out of it no doubt.
         • uke 5.1.1.1.1

           30 June 2011 at 10:53 am

           The collapse of European pension funds due to defaulting will also cause widespread misery.
            
           Meanwhile, RNZ’s Morning Report regularly interviews Goldman Sachs NZ-branch “experts” as if they are something other than members of a gang of economic terrorists.
   • Adele 5.2

     30 June 2011 at 8:52 am

     Teenaa koe, RobAttack

     I think the analogy you paint is a bit raw.

     Tariana Turia used the word ‘holocaust’ to describe a Māori situation and was severely chastised by many sections of society including the jewish community. Instead, why not say ‘sheep to the slaughter’ which most kiwis can relate to although not many can buy under current pricing.
     • Bill 5.2.1

       30 June 2011 at 9:00 am

       To ‘soften’ the analogy. The trick is encourage people to hold out hope that a warm shower awaits them at the end of a hard road. So, for example, offer them water or the promise of water if they are thirsty ( ‘a rising tide raises all boats’; ‘no gain without pain’; ‘there is no alternative’ etc) and they will be grateful for any expression of humanity or apparent empathy, hold out hope and be acquiescent.

       That’s not something you need to do when dealing with or to sheep.
       • Bored 5.2.1.1

         30 June 2011 at 11:26 am

         Good stuff Bill. Its a bit like that pathetic Godwin call when you call a spade a spade, a fascist a fascist. One can be sensative but the issue remains.

         For the record Adele, Turiana probably had a point, unfortunately our PC use of language took the sting out of the message.
         • William Joyce 5.2.1.1.1

           30 June 2011 at 3:05 pm

           The nature of the events are different and hence the objection to the use of the word holocaust. Holocaust is a loaded term that has come to represent a degree of intentionality and cold-blooded use of industrial methods to utterly extinguish a people group.
           It also has been come to be reserved for a specific event in human history.
           Her use of the term was ill advised and she got the blow-back that comes from misusing such a loaded and specific term.
           For other, similar events (Rwanda/Armenians etc) we now use the word genocide to describe other events that are intended to destroy a people group. As such we look for the presence of a certain set of characteristics that would qualify the event for the name genocide.
           Even if she had used the term genocide I would still think that she was wrong. It would not be an appropriate term for what was a series of events that aimed to subjugate, marginalise, rob, disinherit  a people group born of a mixture of greed and cultural arrogance.
            
     • prism 5.2.2

       30 June 2011 at 1:17 pm

       kia ora adele – well said
   • Bill 5.3

     30 June 2011 at 9:18 am

     If an individual seeks money from me that I believe they have no entitlement to, I tell them to fuck off. Doubtless they apply pressure and issue all manner of threats of how dire the future will be if I insist on retaining what is mine.

     Seems that’s the situation with Greece and others. The threat coming from the money men is the supposed dire consequences of default. Truth is that default isn’t dire. Well, it is, but not for the defaulter.

     Argentina defaulted. There was no sustained outward rush of investment. There were no starving millions. The Argentinian economy was finally able to stand on its feet when the government pushed back against the financial players who kept pushing it to the ground.

     But the Greek government, in concert with others, are cowards and idiots acting as enforcers for bullies rather than as defenders of the Greek people.
     • Gosman 5.3.1

       30 June 2011 at 9:29 am

       The Greeks time of relying on failed socialist policies for their economic properity is coming to an end. They have to face up to the fact they can no longer have their cake and eat it as well.

       I’d love to see what alternative some of you lefties are proposing for the Greek economy.
       • Colonial Viper 5.3.1.1

         30 June 2011 at 11:30 am

         Gosman, being slack collecting your taxes, and letting the investment banks convince you that you should take on more and more debt while you trust them to look after the details are not “socialist policies”.
       • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1.2

         30 June 2011 at 1:55 pm

         The Greeks time of relying on failed socialist policies…

         The RWNJs are rewriting history already. Gosman, it was failed capitalist policies that caused the financial collapse.
         • Gosman 5.3.1.2.1

           1 July 2011 at 8:52 am

           In Greece??? How so considering most rational commentators are stating the problem in Greece is the fact they spend far mor than they earn and the Government sector is far too large and generous?
     • ianmac 5.3.2

       30 June 2011 at 9:50 am

       Funny how the Bankers survive and get bonus payments regardless of how the peasants suffer.
     • higherstandard 5.3.3

       30 June 2011 at 3:21 pm

       There will certainly be issues for greece if it turns to custard, just one small example as below.

       http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303936704576399273733104288.html
       • Treetop 5.3.3.1

         30 June 2011 at 3:53 pm

         Got me thinking: Is Greece still paying for the 2004 Athens Olympic Games?
         • higherstandard 5.3.3.1.1

           30 June 2011 at 4:19 pm

           Good point. Wouldn’t surprise me, anyone who’d take on that kind of debt for their own aggrandisement needs their head reading.

           http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3649268.stm
           • Treetop 5.3.3.1.1.1

             30 June 2011 at 4:32 pm

             Thanks for the link.
   • Morrissey 5.4

     30 June 2011 at 9:34 am

     ….are we more like German Jews ? Passively going to the shower block?

     This is without question the most ignorant and offensive comment of the year so far. You idiot.
   • Herodotus 5.5

     30 June 2011 at 12:31 pm

     There was an interview just before 10:00 this morning on the national Programme with a British woman on the Greek issue .Very interesting especially if someone can put up the link. Lehman Bros were involved re manipulating Greeces entry into the EU, also with the ability for some to retire at 50 on the state and that shipping maginates were tax exempt because of the value they allow society to benefit from. Now here is a country that has no ability to experience reality !!!!
     • Treetop 5.5.1

       30 June 2011 at 3:39 pm

       Shipping magnates are exempt from paying tax. Aristole Onassis from Greece became extremely wealthy through shipping.
     • Ianupnorth 5.5.2

       30 June 2011 at 8:48 pm

       And hairdressers, pastry chefs and radio announcers were deemed able to retire on 95% of their final wage aged 50 – wish I had gone and lived there!
        
   • prism 5.6

     30 June 2011 at 1:12 pm

     robert attack – German Jews deserve not to be slighted by such insensitive, unthinking types as you.
     • William Joyce 5.6.1

       30 June 2011 at 3:14 pm

       Yes, there are better pictures to use….
       Following the Judas goat to slaughter.
       Sleep walking our way into oblivion.
       Striking up another tune on the deck of the Titanic.
       Ordering another round when the roof is falling.
6. Terry 6

   30 June 2011 at 10:18 am

   Labour Leader Phil Goff wrong again.

   Labour leader Phil Goff has got it wrong again. “Hone took that [TTT] from being the safest Maori Party seat in the country to being the most marginal…”, Mr Goff said to Waatea news. Hone Harawira’s seat had the fourth largest majority out of seven seats in the last election. It is interesting to… note that the three lowest majorities in the maori seats included the only two labour MP’s elected, Parekura with a 1645 majority, and Nanaia with only a 888 majority.

   Labour leader Phil Goff is in real trouble, it is most likely that his leadership will end after the next election. Phil Goof’s most dangerous enemies are his own labour MP’s, the knives are being sharpened as we speak…
   • just saying 6.1

     30 June 2011 at 11:39 am

     “… the knives are being sharpened as we speak…”

     God I hope they are using power-tools.
     If a job’s worth doing…..
     …..and this need is urgent!
   • The Voice of Reason 6.2

     30 June 2011 at 11:57 am

     Oh dear. This is clearly a mortal blow for Goff. I won’t be the least bit surprised if not only resigned the leadership, but went as far as locking himself in a quiet room with a bottle of scotch, a revolver and a single bullet. Given the gravity of this appalling error, it would be the only decent thing to do. Thank you both for alerting us to this shocking chain of events and Godspeed you both in your campaign to re-elect Nact, sorry, rejuvenate the Labour Party.
     • just saying 6.2.1

       30 June 2011 at 7:33 pm

       Goff is doing far more to help National get re-elected, than all blog commenters combined could possibily achieve.
7. Pascal's bookie 7

   30 June 2011 at 11:12 am

   watch Joyce getting loved at nethui;

   https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23NetHui
   • lprent 7.1

     30 June 2011 at 11:25 am

     I couldn’t be bothered. I only have a few hours that I can spend there because of work timetables, and listening to him didn’t met the criteria. Unfortunately neither did Rob Oram or any of the keynote speeches to date.
     • Jim Nald 7.1.1

       30 June 2011 at 12:58 pm

       Fantastic contribution from the genius. An embarrassment of riches.
       I was trying hard to get to it and now I am glad I didn’t.
8. mickysavage 8

   30 June 2011 at 11:26 am

   Cameron is claiming the Labour Party has entered into a contract to bring his site down!!
    
   To quote “Labour has put out a con­tract amongst the hack­ing com­mu­nity to deface or take down my site”.
    
   Traffic volume must be down so he needs to boost it up.  Honestly though …
    
   Perhaps he should be invited to put up proof or apologise.
    
    
   • lprent 8.1

     30 June 2011 at 12:33 pm

     *grin* Sounds like crap – but he is a credulous soul – someone has probably fed this to him to wind him up. Mind you, I think that if I see a hole on his site from here on out (as has existed several times in the past), I will be publishing it rather than my usual practices.
     • Lanthanide 8.1.1

       30 June 2011 at 1:00 pm

       “I will be publishing it rather than my usual practices.”

       Don’t sink to his level.
     • chris73 8.1.2

       30 June 2011 at 6:12 pm

       Of course because the Labour party are just so gosh darned nice and would never, ever think of doing anything underhanded would they
   • jackal 8.2

     30 June 2011 at 2:29 pm

     Perhaps he should write a formal complaint:

     Dear Anonymous,

     Please don’t hack my site. I’ve been a RWNJ National (under the table) employed lackey for a long time now and I really have to keep blogging crap right up until the next election, otherwise I don’t get my John Key autographed arse warmer.

     If you keep stopping graphics from appearing and limiting my links, I’ll huff and puff and blow your house down… Where do you live again?

     I know I hacked the Labour Party website, but nobody is allowed to hack my site. It’s just not fair because I rule everything and I have guns.

     Yours respectfully,

     Cameron Slater.

     PS Can you super size my arse warmer please?
   • Ianupnorth 8.3

     30 June 2011 at 8:51 pm

     There was a real lovers tiff between him and Trevor mallard yesterday on Red Alert, and the blubbery one was dishing the threats to TM, along the lines of

     Back off or I’ll release more stuff from your server

     The man is a tosser
     • felix 8.3.1

       1 July 2011 at 7:43 am

       “Man” might be stretching it a bit.
     • mickysavage 8.3.2

       1 July 2011 at 8:06 am

       Aye Ian

       Cameron gets really really upset at the mention of his friend Simon Lusk.  Every time Simon’s name is mentioned he goes ballistic.

       Hmm this could be fun.

       Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk, Simon Lusk …
9. tc 9

   30 June 2011 at 12:37 pm

   ‘Perhaps he should be invited to put up proof or apologise’ nice one mickey, bit early for a friday funny but hilarious none the less.

   Slater/Wishart/DPF at times are bottom feeders, reminds me of a t-shirt at Despair.com that goes ‘more people have read this t-shirt than your blog’
   • Anne 9.1

     30 June 2011 at 5:14 pm

     Yet another hilarious revelation – see Red Alert. (Damm I must learn how to link):

     Rodney Hide was seen this morning jumping out of his Crown car and taking a photograph of Phil Twyford’s Te Atatu campaign office. So what was that about? An accusation (in due course) of a supposed rorting of tax-payers money by Phil Twyford? If so, I think Twyford may have already successfully killed it.
10. ZeeBop 10

    30 June 2011 at 2:16 pm

    The rich aren’t the problem. Rich people (the good kind) know their wealth is earned, the kind that lasts, not won by corruption, not won by speculatively excesses, and they will only remain rich if they stay competitive. Just as in any social situation you have cheaters and short-cutters, who seek economic and social recognition at the expense of their own ethics and morals. Wannabes rich, who want to have hundreds of millions in the bank and be PM, but actually have no social platform and so are tools for those who want to cheat to get rich. The wealthy and poor alike know that true prosperity comes of tangible generous spirit. Now National have none, and Labour had little for 9 years, their goal seems to play along. The question for me is where is the social justice debate, why is the political wealth and history denied us? Why? Because Labour introduced the Human Rights Act partially, and created an organisation too close to government (they actively advise government departments!) so the immediacy of their relationship, snotty better than everyone attitude having every branch of government potentially available to their decisions, becomes yet another barrier to Human Rights. As human rights are essentially breach by governments. So yes, we should be compensated for poor government, the poor and the rich, the rich also stand to lose massively from the neo-liberal paradigm when oil, climate crisis, resource wars and food spikes perpetually. So I ask where is the social justice debate on our MSM, where are the independent Human Rights lawyers the hounders of the oppressed? Gone because the Human Rights Commission serves its own and its paymaster role, to hide human rights abuses, loss of political depth, lose of economic rights, lose of social integrity. I am astonished how poor our laws are, that a person can say have a truck hub land next door to them and they have no real recourse! Articulated trucks are horrendously noisy, in any first world economy they are placed well away from homes since the throbbing of them warming up causes heart murmurs and worse. So to hear that a council just dropped a truck hauler next to a home without any noise abatement breaches the human rights of the surrounding property owners. And all the hauler needs to have done is put up some massively large walls and sound protections. Has NZ forgotten how to build substantial walls of breeze blocks, its a half a day process for the price of a roof!
    (this story was on TV last night). There was adequate room in the program for a social justice debate about how residential areas have exclusions against such trucks parking over night.

    Hey, this is the 21st century and we still get this crap happening, those poor folks who were forced to risk being hauled away themselves by police when they blocked the entrance.

    So where are the social justice, and why are they so put down by the likes of Holmes or Henry, if they do show up. Moustache! I think the blind worship of God, Communism, or profit at the expense of anything else is dangerous and we need to rain them in. The Profit God must be brought back down to size and fast.
11. jackal 11

    30 June 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Who Pays for Pike River?

    I think I speak for all of New Zealand when I say our hearts go out to the families of those killed in the Pike River mine disaster. Not only have the families of the deceased had to wait an incessant amount of time for the recovery process to begin, it now appears that it’s been financially mismanaged, and will stall because of a lack foresight by the receivers to set aside enough money to complete the task.
12. Morrissey 12

    30 June 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Open letter to Doris Mousdale of the Arcadia Bookshop

    Re: your decision to boycott the Macsyna King book

    Dear Ms. Mousdale,

    I was interested to hear you will refuse to sell the Macsyna King book on moral grounds. That’s a laudable decision.

    I presume that you have also refused to sell A Life by Tony Blair, Giving by Bill Clinton and Decision Points by George W. Bush. Each of these authors is directly culpable for the deaths of far more than just two children.

    If, however, you do sell any or all of those books, could you please explain why?

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point
    • D-D-D-Damn ! 12.1

      30 June 2011 at 4:00 pm

      Was that ‘A Life’ by Tony Blair or ‘A Lie’ by Tony Blair ?
      • Morrissey 12.1.1

        30 June 2011 at 6:38 pm

        With Blair, as with the other two, the terms are interchangeable. One of my favourite press conferences of all time was in London, 2003, when Bush told the assembled media outside No. 10 Downing Street: “I like Tony ‘cos he tells the truth!”

        Actually, there is a tape of Bush speaking the truth on just one occasion…
        
    • prism 12.2

      30 June 2011 at 6:51 pm

      Another open letter this time to lady from Unity Bookshop. Women seem to take the high moral tone to uncomfortable heights often. Are they more sensitive and caring than men or just unable to look directly at unpleasant reality?
      • Morrissey 12.2.1

        30 June 2011 at 7:03 pm

        Are they more sensitive and caring than men or just unable to look directly at unpleasant reality?

        Doris Mousdale does her anodyne book reviews for Leighton Smith and Paul Holmes, two of the most racist, hateful broadcasters in the country. It is absurd to imagine that she is too “sensitive” or “caring” to stock a book which, however bad it might be, will be no worse than an hour of Smith’s or Holmes’s ranting.
      • rosy 12.2.2

        30 June 2011 at 7:15 pm

        Women seem to take the high moral tone to uncomfortable heights often.

        I go with the theory that people who protest too much are uncomfortably close to the subject they are protesting about – in this case I’d looking at paid-up members of the smacking brigade or their own close shave with being in the underclass as driving unreasonably high levels of book-banning and hang’em rhetoric.
        • just saying 12.2.2.1

          30 June 2011 at 7:31 pm

          Sad but true Rosy.

          There are also those who are just using the issue to push their racist agendas, and vent their hatred of Maori.
    • Vicky32 12.3

      30 June 2011 at 7:01 pm

      Good on you Morrissey! Let us know if she replies…
13. lprent 13

    30 June 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Looks like I will have to look at the spam stuff again this weekend. People have started getting auto-moderated again.

    The reason is pretty clear from the akismet anti-spam chart.

    
14. prism 14

    30 June 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Why isn’t Jerry the Butt getting off his and organising some package to help the Canterbury regional government with their disaster insurance? He has King-like powers hasn’t he? What a useless type he is. He must have wormed his way into the inner circle to be favoured boy to get his role – or has it just been done on a location thing – he is elected for Christchurch and so everyone has to reap the meagre pickings of what Chch NACTS voted in.
15. Ianupnorth 15

    30 June 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Tom Petty won’t let the right use his songs – and there are many others!
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/29/michele-bachmann-tom-petty
    • Pascal's bookie 15.1

      30 June 2011 at 9:43 pm

      Read yesterday I think, that he wouldn’t let the Democrats use “I won’t back down”, on the grounds that they probably would. WIN.
      • Ianupnorth 15.1.1

        30 June 2011 at 11:05 pm

        No, wouldn’t let Bush use that song
16. jackal 16

    30 June 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Hero of the Week Award – Anonymous Donor

    The Christchurch Earthquake Appeal has received an anonymous donation of $5 million, which is the largest individual donation yet.
    • chris73 16.1

      1 July 2011 at 7:18 am

      Well done that man! (Probably a right-winger)
17. Ianupnorth 17

    30 June 2011 at 11:04 pm

    Anyone on here got a Kindle? Comments please
    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      30 June 2011 at 11:21 pm

      When the global economic system goes down you are going to want good old fashioned paper books.

      PS I understand that Amazon can “kill switch” your books at will e.g. if they have a disagreement with a publisher etc.
18. Draco T Bastard 18

    1 July 2011 at 12:47 am

    Urban density and transport-related energy consumption
    Why we need to look at making our cities much smaller. The energy used in large, sprawling cities is astronomical.

    And then we have Monbiot’s Sustainable cities must be compact.

    In countries such as Australia, the US, Canada, Spain and Italy, weak planning has ensured that the distinction between town and countryside is blurred. Here you can find the worst of both worlds: a wildly unsustainable, disagregated urban nightmare, in which infrastructure is stretched across sprawling suburbs, people have no choice but to drive, and anonymous dormitory estates seem perfectly designed to generate alienation and anomie.

    The uncontrolled growth of our cities that we’ve seen over the last 50 odd years has got to come to and end as we just can’t afford it.
    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      1 July 2011 at 1:21 am

      Highly dense urban areas with large numbers of people per sq km will need highly efficient systems of bringing (labour intensive) produce in from rural areas.

      Basically the fossil fuels we have left at this stage all need to be reserved for ambulances, tractors and harvesters. Full stop.

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