Phasing into phase 4

Written By: - Date published: 2:50 pm, March 23rd, 2020 - 147 comments
Categories: covid-19, Economy, health, jacinda ardern, law, military, Parliament, police, schools - Tags:

Heading into phase three, moving into phase four 48 hours later. Here is the video briefing and the quick analysis.

So far I’m loving how controlled our government has been performing. While I’m no expert, I’ve been around the periphery of the civil defense at various times in my career. It was one of the focuses that came up when I was a medic in the Army in my youth. Everything that I’ve ever read through my interest in history has confirmed that training about exactly how dangerous panic and dangerous precipitous too early decisions can be. 

Just think of how many things have to work correctly for a shutdown as required in phase four. Simple things like making sure that the inter-island ferries are deemed as essential services. We don’t want the supply lines cut off. That the power lines, water and sewage systems will be maintained. I haven’t looked at the detail – but I hope that internet is maintained as an essential service as well.

There is a hell of lot to look at. Just for instance, our body corporate service provider Barfoot and Thompson raised a question several days ago. We are required by the act to have a physical meeting for our annual general meeting. Until we have it we cannot set a levy for the essential services for our apartment block – like insurance, water and sewerage. Obviously there is going to be an issue with assembling the owners to approve that.

While it’d be nice for parliament to revise the poor wording of the Unit Titles Act 2010, I don’t think that it will be top of the list for parliament. There is a way around it – as their notice to owners today points out (as they announce their move to working from home)…

What will change?
The only change will be to any face to face meetings, which we are already setting up with our complexes to be held via Google Hangouts.  For any meetings, including AGM’s or committee meetings scheduled, you will receive a link to take you to the Google Hangouts.  You can choose to leave your camera on so everyone can you see you face to face, or turn it off.  There is also the facility to dial in via phone if you do not have a computer, so every member can be fully included and involved.
 
We do ask, for verification, that for any upcoming general meetings, you still send in a completed postal voting form, so that we can register your votes on each resolution, as well as a proxy vote appointing the account manager.  The postal vote will help us for clarification and in the event of any technical connection glitches, while the proxy form will only be used to establish quorum and ensure the AGM is fully compliant with the UTA 2010.

Multiply that by a *lot* of legislation. For instance selecting candidates for the election that must be held by some time in December. Be innovative – look for similar ways to legally do what needs to be done.

It is good that the mailed fist that underlies health orders and emergency states is now becoming clear. For any dickheads who care to violate the rules of those decrees that will come into for Phase four over the next few days – be warned that the rules of engagement in emergencies are pretty clear.

When push comes to shove the police and military will be clamp down hard and quite strongly on idiots. It really doesn’t matter if you consider that you have ‘rights’ to plunder supermarkets or that you think you might be acting as a moral vigilante. Be nice to the uniformed people protecting essential services and enforcing standards of behaviour, and they will be nice in return.

NZ Army personnel provide support to the Christchurch Earthquake Operation by providing cordons around the city’s CBD.

147 comments on “Phasing into phase 4 ”

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  1. Ad 1
    23 March 2020 at 2:59 pm

    We are packing up now.

  2. Carolyn_Nth 2
    23 March 2020 at 3:07 pm

    I think the government must be considering internet provisions as essential – for people working from home, for government to continue working, and for school students to have lessons at home. Hipkins said they have been working on getting internet connections and hardware for school pupils who don't have them at home, and need them for their schooling to continue.

    • I Feel Love 2.1
      23 March 2020 at 3:25 pm

      Last week the kids were doing a survey at their school about internet connections and devices at home. I thought it was just for the schools, but maybe it was for this. If so, I'm bloody impressed.

  3. Ovid 3
    23 March 2020 at 3:46 pm

    Gold star to whoever came up with the alert level system. Far better than abrupt, ad-hoc changes.

    • lprent 3.1
      23 March 2020 at 3:51 pm

      It effectively comes straight out of the pandemic influenza plan. That overview (194 pages worth), its simpler predecessors, and the more detailed plans in different areas have been around since the late 1920s. The last major update was in 2010 when they brushed the dust off it and brought it up to date.

      One of the many services that our taxes pay for – just in case.

  4. RedLogix 4
    23 March 2020 at 3:49 pm

    Water supply is deemed an essential service; during the first SARs event we were fully planned and prepped to ensure continuity. The staff without exception were all totally committed to keeping it running. I would imagine the same applies to on the electricity side.

    The trick might come if it goes on for months it could become increasingly difficult to get parts and equipment for breakdowns and maintenance.

    There will be many public servants working long hours right now working through a lot of details.

  5. Adrian 5
    23 March 2020 at 3:57 pm

    A major problem is that there is up to 10 billion in export dollars in seasonal fruit to be harvested now, kiwifruit, apples, blueberries, grapes as well as fish, milk, meat and quite a few others. In 4 weeks time it will be rotten.

    • weka 5.1
      23 March 2020 at 4:37 pm

      Have heard today that raspberries and vinyard grapes won't be picked. They're not essential for food supplies for NZ (obviously a big economic issue) but other fruit/veg will be. I'm guessing farming will continue and freezing works.

      Much of our produce is for export, all sorts of implications there.

      • bwaghorn 5.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 5:21 pm

        I hope the works keep going . Due to the drought conditions the stress on farmers if they cant keep moving stock will tip some over the edge.

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 6:41 pm

          Just heard before that the works are def staying open.

          • Muttonbird 5.1.1.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 6:46 pm

            Yes, the PM stated more than once we have enough food.

            The panic buying serves only to increase participants' anxiety so I'm at a loss as to why they do it.

            The human condition I suppose.

  6. Adrian 6
    23 March 2020 at 4:20 pm

    Primary producers in meeting with Government at 4.30. I hope we get a result, I've got an entire years crop that was to be picked tomorrow, its not the loss of profit, that's only about 10 grand, its the 120 grand that it cost to get it there. Can the country afford to have 40to 60% of farms go tits up and end up being owned by offshore entities.

    Whatever you do don't go farming.

    • Molly 6.1
      23 March 2020 at 4:28 pm

      What's your domestic market like in terms of return, Adrian? If the pickers are available and the harvest can be distributed in NZ – and processed here – will that enable growers to make it through the next few months?

      • weka 6.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 4:39 pm

        Processing would be key I think, as I'm guessing we produce way more than we can eat.

      • Adrian 6.1.2
        23 March 2020 at 5:56 pm

        Its grapes Molly, and harvesting is 100% mechanical with up to 10 metres of separation between operators in harvester, tractor and truck cabs then tipped at the winery which is pretty much automatic and then in a couple of weeks its is alcohol and you can rub it on your hands but it tastes a lot better if you drink it.

        If it is sold in NZ starting in 6 months time Grant gets almost $5 a bottle to pay for the recovery so drink up. ( and I dont énvy him a cent of it ) Export is about $7.50 a bottle return to the country or 2 billion a year and we are going to need every dollar. I get about $1.75 a bottle equilavent for the grapes or 25 cents after costs.

        Kiwifruit and other fruit have got picker proximity problems I would think, but allocating blocks would solve that problem. BTW, a couple of kiwifruit a day is really good for building up resistance and good health, apples for the anthocyanins and a cheeky little Four Hawk Day Marl Savvy for stress relief. Sorted.

        • I Feel Love 6.1.2.1
          23 March 2020 at 6:12 pm

          Wish you well man, hope there's a plan that works for you.

        • Molly 6.1.2.2
          23 March 2020 at 7:44 pm

          Had family that grew grapes down in Gisborne for decades until they retired.

          Hope tomorrow's announcement has some plans for you, and all the other primary producers. As you say, good health is aided by good nutrition, and often a little sauvignon stress relief. Will look forward to hearing your thoughts, when some of those details are known.

          • Anne 6.1.2.2.1
            23 March 2020 at 8:37 pm

            … good health is aided by good nutrition, and often a little sauvignon stress relief.

            Swear by it.

        • greywarshark 6.1.2.3
          24 March 2020 at 9:09 am

          Thanks Adrian for that good health tip.

    • weka 6.2
      23 March 2020 at 4:40 pm

      That must be incredibly stressful. I'm guessing food production is an essential service, and NZ won't let farms go under. Hope you get some clarity soon.

    • Janet 6.3
      23 March 2020 at 5:19 pm

      U and your family go start picking …. it does not have to be all picked in a day !

      Or are you not an owner operator and don,t want to roll up your sleeves and start picking and packing.

      Whatever, you might not get all the crop picked but without the big labour bills you should survive until the next season !

      • observer 6.3.1
        23 March 2020 at 5:29 pm

        Not helpful, Janet. Superman couldn't replace an army of pickers.

        I hope for all our sakes the food exports/producers are given priority, not just for the growers themselves but for a sense of hope, of light at the end of the tunnel. We need that right now.

      • mac1 6.3.2
        23 March 2020 at 5:44 pm

        I know Adrian and he is a very hard working man. I drink his wine. I feel for him. He helped put up my election hoardings, hours and hours or work in many ways. The whole wine industry is facing something far worse than the 2005 poor season- far worse. He puts a human face on what too many of us see as a political abstract.

        • Adrian 6.3.2.1
          23 March 2020 at 6:06 pm

          I'm 70 Janet and I've just done 3 15 hour days on a hand pick, the kids would love to come home and help but worried that they would bring something home from Uni or London for me or their much needed mother and I dearly hope nobody here gets to meet her in the next few weeks she's an ICU nurse and like a lot of her cohort in her 60s, and they are going to be the bravest of anybody else in the country.

          • patricia 6.3.2.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 8:48 pm

            We forget that the pain and stress is not evenly shared. Keep well Adrian.

          • ianmac 6.3.2.1.2
            23 March 2020 at 10:44 pm

            My son works at a wine processing plant in Marlborough and he said tonight that grapes are now classed as "essential" so they are carrying on with the harvest -unless they get a positive test from one of the 100+ workers.

        • Adrian 6.3.2.2
          23 March 2020 at 6:08 pm

          Awww..thanks Mac and OB, jeez that's gonna cost me another 1/2 doz and OB.. I’ve got a cape.

      • Adrian 6.3.3
        23 March 2020 at 6:00 pm

        Its only money thanks Weka, a lot of other people are going to have a lot more problems than us if a loved one has to fight this bloody thing off.

        • Molly 6.3.3.1
          23 March 2020 at 7:46 pm

          Yes, sorry Adrian. Sympathy should have been the first comment I posted. Hope tomorrows meeting has some good answers and strategies for you all.

      • greywarshark 6.3.4
        24 March 2020 at 9:10 am

        Vinegar Can-et. Try to make wine out of water, though actually vinegar can be useful for wiping benches etc.

    • Janet 6.4
      24 March 2020 at 1:57 am

      Adrian, yes not much leeway with grapes – wasps are already into my household ones,

      Somehow both you and these two exceptional helpers I had 2 months ago need each other.

      “We are in Te Anau, Fjordland, at the moment and don't really know what to do. When we showed up at the job we were supposed to have we were send away because of the coronavirus. At first we thought it's fine and we can find another job, however it's really hard now.

      The government said today that backpackers who don't have an accommodation for the next 4 weeks may be getting deported. We are quite worried now, we don't want to leave the country because we have already booked a flight back home in August.Do you have an idea what we could do? “

      They are in a self contained Station wagon and I have sent the http://www.picknz.co.nz site to them meantime.

      Observer I too am over 70 and but for the potato psyllid, a recent MPI border breacher which has decimated my tamarillo orchard over the last two seasons, I would be picking and packing too shortly. Luckily I have the over 65 UBI equivalent, otherwise known as Universal Superannuation to tide me over.

      • Molly 6.4.1
        24 March 2020 at 11:04 am

        I'm thinking regardless of their booked flight, they should be seriously preparing to go home, to their own families and communities. As a former backpacker and traveller, I don't think I would have expected any country that I visited to have to accommodate me if I had other options. Because essentially I was a traveller more than a contributor, and given the situation, many in the country without options to go somewhere else will also be looking for employment and support.

        Family member in the Defence Force, says that she was amazed by the reaction of many tourists, mainly backpackers, when they went in to evacuate them from the maraes after the Christchurch earthquake. The maraes did a fantastic job of sheltering and feeding displaced people, and so, when the government provided transport for those who wished to leave, many stayed – determined to milk the last drop of human kindness from the locals.

        Their are considerations other than existing travel and life plans, and they need to take precedence.

        • Adrian 6.4.1.1
          24 March 2020 at 3:02 pm

          Yes Janet and Molly, it has just taken all of my persuasion to convince some young vanpackers that there is no work in NZ now and while they can get 300 euros unemployment help each week from their home countries they should fly out. They were under the impression that they should have NZ government help. They only changed their minds when I pointed out that Kiwis in the same situation would not get the steam off a turd from their respective Euro governments.

          Did we ever have this bloody annoying self-entitlement virus in the 60s and 70s , I think it is world wide as the number of Kiwi millenials turning up at the returning home border and demanding a virus test after spending a minimum-wagers yearly income on a holiday. Pay for it your bloody self.

  7. Exkiwiforces 7
    23 March 2020 at 4:41 pm

    Good on Jandal’s and the team for pulling the trigger for NZ to go to level 4. It’s bloody chaos over here in Oz atm and one feels that ScoMo is slowly losing his grip on things here in Oz as the state & territory governments are doing their own thing and pushing the fed’s.

    Anyway for those who don’t follow NZ Defence issues in NZ. The NZ Army TF manning numbers have been in free fall since 1989 when the TF manning was just over 10,000 effective personnel where most units were 100% manned inline of peace time levels and most other units were between 75-90% manned. But since then we have had depots close in the main to regional/ rural centres and manning has dropped to a level that last happened during the depression in 30’s to around about 2,500 effective personal nationwide in the last 3-4yrs.

    Both RNZAF and RNZNVR their numbers are even worse than the Green machine especially with the 4 RNZNVR ships lost their inshore patrol boats under Labour/ Alliance Government in the early 2000’s.

    There is a lot of chickens slowly coming home to roost, with Centralised warehousing and the bean counters bringing just in time logistics. Various aspects of NZ manufacturing moved overseas because it was cheaper than investing in NZ (note 90% of US medical and pharmaceutical goods are made in China WTF!) All Government departments have been ran into ground because of political ideology and the way the public service is run these days with less specialisation within their departments to a more generic mode and therefore destroying the width and depth of knowledge within the NZ public service.

    I’m currently out bush atm, preparing my bush block for this yrs coming Northern Oz Fire Season and yes it’s been another poor wet season in and around the Darwin/ Douglas Daly areas.

    So I may not be able to reply due poor internet or my iPad cracks the shits with replying here on The Standard.

    • Macro 7.1
      23 March 2020 at 5:26 pm

      ScoMo is slowly losing his grip on things here in Oz as the state & territory governments are doing their own thing and pushing the fed’s.

      No worries ExKF. ScoMo is waiting to see how it all goes down here in NZ and then if we haven't all mutinied, he will follow suit in a day or so.

    • A 7.2
      23 March 2020 at 7:28 pm

      Jeez I feel for you guys over there.

      Given the level of disruption it's easy to forget that this is one crisis of many.

    • greywarshark 7.3
      24 March 2020 at 10:11 am

      Good goings Ex Kiwi. About pollies, even Sco Mo's and herd's ability to think in wish-fulfilment mode, and step around reality and rationality, is being stretched to the limit now. Why doesn't awake Australia set up a fund to build a Frankenstein politician hand-made in Australia, so to speak? Craft what you need, the ready-made ones are so faulty, they leak out their intestinal fortitude each time they blink.

      Are you going to use that aboriginal approach to burning off that I read about?

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/cultural-indigenous-burn-saves-home-in-bushfire-threat-area/11876972

      Have you come across the Mulloon people yet? They are based in NSW but believe it's an All-Australia application that will aid the country.

      https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#search/mulloon/FMfcgxwHMPdQSZCPCSfmQdRkfHrnxmQg

      • Exkiwiforces 7.3.1
        26 March 2020 at 3:52 pm

        In response to your reply, I have 4 big fire breaks between 5-7m wide that have been sprayed with herbicide about 2-3wks ago in which I mowed during the week. I will go back in a 1-2wks time to check on regrowth, if there is no weed growth I drop the mower down in a effort to get the fire break back to bare dirt prior to burning the block which should be done every 3-4 yrs.

        I have a smaller fire break around a 6ft fence and these a 2-3m wide protection my crib, shower block an a 20ft container. Which was mowed and sprayed and I will repeat the process as for the big fire breaks. It may sound like a lot of work but it does work as we had a control burn off that went wrong 2yrs ago which this smaller fire break save our buildings by slowing the fire up and allowing the volly's with small 4wd's to control the fire. The wife no longer questions me about my judgement or doing the this fire break as she has now the evidence.

        The plan is do burn off the big block first and followed by a burn inside the fence line on a couple of bits of bush when I have my fire truck or tanker back before the cut off to burn.

  8. barry 8
    23 March 2020 at 4:55 pm

    I am quite optimistic. Up until now we have been a week or 2 late to react. The exception was being quick to ban travellers from China in the beginning.

    In hindsight, tourism and cruise ships should have been banned as soon as the Diamond Princess disaster was clear. In that 2 weeks or so a lot of infected and potentially infected people came here, then the patient 1 for the cattle conference. But that would have been politically impossible. Even when the requirement to self-isolate was brought in it was very unpopular and a sign that the government was panicking.

    Self isolation has been a little naive. There are too many people stretching the bounds or ignoring them completely. NZ is not set up to enforce them

    But now, nearly all the cases have been recent travellers or their family or close contacts. The number seems high compared to earlier, but that is because the numbers of infections in the source countries is dramatically higher. These numbers will be added to in the next few days as the surge of returnees are accounted for, but these are mostly isolated and not causing more infections. Soon this number will stabilise.

    It is hard to estimate the number of undiagnosed cases in the wild, but if there were too many we would be seeing people in ICU. I guess the number could be about 10. If nothing is done this will double every 3-4 days. The level 2 restrictions might have pushed that out to 5 days perhaps. Level 4 restrictions, with increased testing and contact tracing should be able to stop the exponential increase. We won't be able to test enough people in the general population until we have reduced the number of travel related cases to follow up. So probably we won't start to reduce the community infections properly for another week or so.

    Based on Chinese experience it takes another 3 weeks to clear it out.

    This all relies on new inbound travellers not adding to the burden. It means that we have to introduce quarantines. If we get infections to zero then we need to keep it out. Even if we don't have significant international travel for another year we can get back to normal life in NZ.

    Luckily we have a moat.

    • Wayne 8.1
      23 March 2020 at 9:40 pm

      Well, it certainly has gone quick. Yesterday, i thought Level 2 with enhancements was OK. On Wednesday we will be at Level 4. But is the right decision.

      I reckon liquor stores should also remain open. The Schweppes tonic has completely vanished from the local supermarket. Though it was all good in other respects. No big queues. Everyone buying sensibly. But it was pretty obvious that people were worried about their Gin and Tonic! As well they might be!

      One point of concern. What is happening at the border? How are returning New Zealanders being checked? We should probably be told what is happening there, given virtually all cases are of returning New Zealanders.

      Today I also noted a cruise ship at Princes Wharf. Presumably refuelling and getting more food. But I imagine any New Zealanders would be getting off. I hope all are being well checked.

  9. Paddington 9
    23 March 2020 at 5:06 pm

    Question 1.

    To move from level 2 to 3 requires community transmission and/or multiple clusters breaking out. When did that happen?

    Question 2.

    To move from level 3 to 4 requires sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks. When did that happen?

    • observer 9.1
      23 March 2020 at 5:10 pm

      Who cares?

      Community transmission has happened. More will happen.

      That is all that matters now.

      • Paddington 9.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 5:16 pm

        You miss the point.

        " The four-stage alert system was revealed by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on Saturday, with a focus on clear communication and ensuring Kiwis understand expectations on them individually and as a community."

        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/03/coronavirus-new-zealand-s-covid-19-alert-systems-how-it-affects-kiwis.html

        In my opinion we should have been at level 4 weeks ago. My point is that the Government is making decisions that do not even meet their own criteria, announced just days ago. That is very concerning.

        • observer 9.1.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 5:25 pm

          And they will do it again, because things are changing so fast.

          But I disagree that it is "concerning". The opposite, IMO. Politicians are instinctively defensive ("I said X before so I'm still saying X now even though logically I should be saying Y"). They do not want to concede points, get accused of a "U-turn", etc.

          Ardern didn't sit down with spin doctors and say "I can't say level 4 now coz I might look bad". Many politicians would do exactly that, but fortunately they are not PM.

          • Paddington 9.1.1.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 5:32 pm

            If they were instinctively defensive, they would have been at level 4 before now. Of course it's concerning. 'They' devise a very clear action plan with a "focus on clear communication" and breach it within 3 days. Not enough has changed that couldn't have been predicted to justify that.

            BTW – I'm of the view we have acted too slowly, but so have just about every country on the planet, so perspective matters. But I am questioning the advice our government is getting.

            • A 9.1.1.1.1.1
              23 March 2020 at 7:32 pm

              I question the advice they get too. To late, inaccurate, and if they wanted to cause the maximum amount of disruption they scored a hit.

              Yes, I've said it before….the WHO and the CDC are inept and we need to believe in the ability of our own experts to research facts that aren't WHO/CDC filtered, and act decisively based on that. It is rapidly evolving so obviously some guesses have to be made but that is far superior to continuing to listen to the people who got us into this mess in the first place.

              Short cut: Hire Chris Martenson. Just saying.

            • Wayne 9.1.1.1.1.2
              23 March 2020 at 9:49 pm

              Paddington,

              You are being a bit harsh. This is a fluid situation, and the govt has to act on the information they have at the moment.

              It would have been super hard to justify to New Zealanders 4 weeks ago, when there was about 1 or 2 cases, to go to full isolation. And would they have followed such an instruction back then?

              I think the government is acting pretty well, maybe at the absolute most, a week too late. And not enough control measures at the border, especially last week. It looked like chaos on the TV.

              But it was just 12 days ago when I was travelling on Air NZ domestically (for a govt committee). Then it was pretty much business as usual.

              It is an amazing level of change in less than 2 weeks. So let's not be too harsh, and let us all do the right thing now. Help and assist friends and family in the way we can.

              • Paddington …
                23 March 2020 at 10:20 pm

                Hi Wayne. I’m not criticising the government directly. In fact I have stated elsewhere that virtually no govt on the planet has got this right. I am questioning the wisdom of the advice they are getting.

        • Carolyn_Nth 9.1.1.2
          23 March 2020 at 5:36 pm

          The govt science advisor has been addressing this now. They have been doing various modelling of other countries' experiences, compared with the developments in NZ.

          They are acting now to be proactive as in countries that have copied with it without overwhelming our health system.

          The projections show that the current rise in cases means, worst case scenario, now is the time to act otherwise the cases will escalate fast and becoming uncontrollable.

          Also, there needed to be time to prepare the health system for this shift.

          Science advisor says the shift to suspected community transmission (cos can't find how they contracted Covid-19) is a game changer and an alarm bell – indicating that the cases in the community could escalate very fast any time now.

          So they need to go early. When there is actual known widespread transmission will likely too late based on overseas egs.

          Now they need to be poised to respond to localised community outbreaks. Need time to verify if there's widespread national transmission or it's just localised.

    • Carolyn_Nth 9.2
      23 March 2020 at 5:13 pm

      y transmission has been declared today as there are 2 cases that they cannot find an overseas traveller connection to.

      The numbers of positive tests are escalating – so, getting ahead of that as stats show there is gonna big an extensive rise in known cases.

      • Paddington 9.2.1
        23 March 2020 at 5:18 pm

        There is no "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks". Based on their own criteria, why is the government moving the country to level 4?

        • AB 9.2.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 5:42 pm

          It's called judgment – as opposed to pettifogging literalness. It appears that this is a virus where once community transmission is established it rapidly moves to "sustained and intensive" anyway. So maybe you could argue that level 4 is somewhat redundant. Not sure it matters – as things shut down I'll have the time to gaze out the window and count the angels dancing on the head of the concrete frog my son bought. Meanwhile being thankful that there are competent and responsible people around doing their jobs.

          • Paddington 9.2.1.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 6:06 pm

            "Pettifogging literalness" is an unfortunate term under the circumstances.

        • Adrian 9.2.1.2
          23 March 2020 at 6:14 pm

          Because they know more than you and people are being arseholes flouting the 14 day rule.

          • Paddington 9.2.1.2.1
            23 March 2020 at 6:19 pm

            Then why publish the criteria just 3 days ago?

            • weka 9.2.1.2.1.1
              23 March 2020 at 8:12 pm

              To create a structure that people can use to prepare, and to help people feel more secure.

            • Anne 9.2.1.2.1.2
              23 March 2020 at 9:00 pm

              To prepare people for what they knew was coming and soften the effects of the shock.

              I have no doubt our best psychiatrists and psychologists have been in the picture behind the scenes.

              • Paddington …
                23 March 2020 at 10:23 pm

                I understand, but two days later? How is that preparation? And if they knew it was coming (and I agree with you in that), why establish criteria and then move before it is met. My view is someone advising the PM has stuffed up.

        • McFlock 9.2.1.3
          23 March 2020 at 6:48 pm

          There are definitely widespread cases.

          There are also two cases who cannot be connected to international travel – i.e. picked up in the community.

          So they are erring on the side of caution.

          I wouldn't be surprised if the number of infected returnees is larger than expected.

          As it is, if the community transmission is limited to the greater wellington region, it might still be stamped out if we act now. But that's a bigger call than other experiences would indicate.

          • Paddington 9.2.1.3.1
            23 March 2020 at 6:55 pm

            The terminology is widespread 'outbreaks'. Based on the criteria the government adopted just 2 days ago, there is possibly argument to move to level 3. There is certainly no "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks".

            My concern is not that we shouldn't be at level 4. In fact I have said previously we should have been at the equivalent of level 4 weeks ago. My concern is the government (based on advice) publishes a 4 tier alert system and then effectively rubbishes it within 2 days.

            • mauī 9.2.1.3.1.1
              23 March 2020 at 7:23 pm

              Have you read the alert level chart properly?

              "Level 4 – Eliminate – Likely that disease is not contained."

              Which fits exactly with what they say is happening and the approach they are taking.

              • Paddington …
                23 March 2020 at 7:29 pm

                That's the 'header'. The criteria is far more specific.

                • mauī …
                  23 March 2020 at 7:43 pm

                  They aren't "criteria", they are put under the heading "risk assessment", which I take as meaning that there is the risk of those things happening at that alert level.

            • Muttonbird 9.2.1.3.1.2
              23 March 2020 at 7:24 pm

              You are thinking too hard.

              Remember not to panic shop for tissues tomorrow.

              • Paddington …
                23 March 2020 at 7:38 pm

                The funny thing is no-one in my household has had any inclination to panic buy. That includes tissues!

            • McFlock 9.2.1.3.1.3
              23 March 2020 at 7:25 pm

              I think you're dancing on the head of a pin in order to be "concerned" and throw in an "I told you so".

              The fact is that in the last few days we have had a growing number of new cases requiring contact-tracing all over the country, and clear evidence of likely community transmission.

              If you think that is semantically and functionally different from "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks", good for you. Because it seems to me that everyone is doing exactly the same work regardless of terminology (as opposed to a few days ago, where the concerns were an individual or two here and there).

              As for shutting down NZ at the end of feb, you weren't saying that at the time. In fact you would have been calling for yourself to be locked out of NZ.

              Four weeks ago we were on the cusp of getting our first case, and I didn't see you calling for all non-essential services in NZ to be shut down and everyone to stay in isolation. Please correct me if I am wrong.

              • Paddington …
                23 March 2020 at 7:36 pm

                Of course it is "functionally different from "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks" ". At most there are 2 cases where Covid has been spread by community contact. There are no widespread outbreaks.

                "Four weeks ago we were on the cusp of getting our first case, and I didn't see you calling for all non-essential services in NZ to be shut down and everyone to stay in isolation."

                Because it shouldn't have been necessary, and the clue is in your comment. NZ is an Island nation. We could have locked our borders to all travellers internationally four weeks ago. Then how many cases would we have?

                • McFlock …
                  23 March 2020 at 7:43 pm

                  Of course it is "functionally different from "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks" ". At most there are 2 cases where Covid has been spread by community contact. There are no widespread outbreaks.

                  So how is that a functional difference from three local transmission outbreaks of thirty people each? Public health people still have the same responsibilities. Docters still have the same increased workload. The fear is still present in the community. What function is different?

                  As for shutting the borders a months ago, again: where were you on that? A couple of people might have been requesting that. Did you? Or is your outrage a dish best served retrospectively?

                  • Paddington …
                    23 March 2020 at 7:51 pm

                    A "growing number of new cases requiring contact-tracing all over the country, and clear evidence of likely community transmission" is not the same as "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks". The growth in the number of cases was entirely predictable given the delay contracting the virus and having it diagnosed.

                    "Did you?"

                    That was my view, yes. I was in Asia in February. In HK, they are preparing for a '2nd wave' of Covid, but for a country so close to China, whose people live in far more vulnerable circumstances than we do, they got on top of the risks much quicker (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/covid-19-coronavirus-hong-kong-case-mask-protest-sars-carrie-lam-12560284)

                    • McFlock …
                      23 March 2020 at 7:56 pm

                      The question was about whether your distinction has any use or whether everyone ends up doing the same thing regardless. I.e. how would people or organisations function differently?

                      And if you had genuine concerns in late February that NZ should immediately close its borders, did you happen to write them in a comment here or wherever? Or did you believe NZ should immediately seal its borders for the sake of all NZers, but just not firmly enough to tell anyone?

                    • Paddington …
                      23 March 2020 at 8:01 pm

                      "did you happen to write them in a comment here or wherever?"

                      You might notice I don't post here over consistent periods of time. That relates to work/travel commitments, and just general lifestyle. In short, to quote Richard Dawkins "I'm busy".

                    • McFlock …
                      23 March 2020 at 8:22 pm

                      So "no", then.

                      And the functional difference?

                    • Paddington …
                      24 March 2020 at 12:46 pm

                      "…a growing number of new cases requiring contact-tracing all over the country, and clear evidence of likely community transmission.

                      "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks"

                      These are obviously functionally different.

                      A growing number could mean 10 more, all of which could be young people and therefore require no direct medical intervention.

                      Intensive transmission and widespread outbreaks imply population wide contraction and a considerably enhanced level of demand on medical facilities. That's a functional difference.

                      The reason I hold the view I do is in part because I saw what was being done in HK and Singapore. We are behind the curve on this, but then, so are most other countries.

                      [It is time to agree to disagree. It is not about who is right or wrong but this thread is drawing too much attention away from more important matters than squabbling about interpretation of the wording of the Alert Levels and what essentially amounts to semantic arguments. The decision has been made and we need to move on. In other words, please let it go, thanks – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []
                      24 March 2020 at 12:58 pm

                      See my Moderation note @ 12:46 PM.

            • mpledger 9.2.1.3.1.4
              24 March 2020 at 8:46 pm

              Given they gave us two days warning that we were going into level 4, they must have predicted that it would happen in two days times. Their prediction may be wrong but it's their best guess. And we are seeing things a day behind because (as I understand it) testing takes 24 hours *but* the govt knows how many are getting tested at the time.

              Given some school kids have got it and those two people who travelled to an agricultural shows in Oz and then travelled around NZ to shows here (IIRC) then there is likely to be widespread outbreaks now.

              I was all for holding off going to level 4 for as long as we could because if people don't see the gravity of the situation they'll just break bounds – and it probably won't be them who gets hurt by that – it will be who they pass the bug to.

        • A 9.2.1.4
          23 March 2020 at 7:38 pm

          It would be insanity not to move to Level 4.

          If Australia doesn't change anything (cases doubling every 3.5 days) they are past Spain in just 2 weeks. Per capita NZ levels are already frightening…that freakish doubling is just around the corner and we don't need it here.

          Nip it in the bud and get it over with is the best call, although I'd prefer it at L4 today it has mentally prepped people and gives people time to figure out how they are getting paid (govt/employer).

          • Paddington 9.2.1.4.1
            23 March 2020 at 7:40 pm

            We should have been at level 4 (or it's equivalent) weeks ago.

            • I Feel Love 9.2.1.4.1.1
              23 March 2020 at 9:28 pm

              shoulda woulda coulda, we will never know, so why get your knickers in a twist about it? Lets just deal with the here and now.

    • SPC 9.3
      23 March 2020 at 5:24 pm

      Other people claimed to know better and the government obeyed them.

      • Paddington 9.3.1
        23 March 2020 at 5:26 pm

        Isn't it the 'other people' who helped devise the criteria?

        • SPC 9.3.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 5:47 pm

          Panic is virulent enough to infect those who advised the policy into abandoning it.

          The panic was that others were organising against their policy and rather than defend it and apply it, they would rather not defend their position.

          They tried to defend some tourism and internal spending via a moderate wage subsidy. Now there is no internal activity.

          How will people pay rents (they say they will not allow rent increases … are talking to banks about people s mortgage payments … how will people losing jobs pay rents out of dole payments.

          • Paddington 9.3.1.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 6:07 pm

            It's the government who abandoned the policy.

            • SPC 9.3.1.1.1.1
              23 March 2020 at 7:01 pm

              You were the one who referenced those who advised the government – if they had a failure of nerve when the policy they advised was attacked ….

              • Paddington …
                23 March 2020 at 7:21 pm

                The advisors don't make the calls. But you're partly right, maybe the government is getting mixed signals, and that makes decision making very difficult.

          • Sabine 9.3.1.1.2
            23 March 2020 at 7:53 pm

            How will people pay rents (they say they will not allow rent increases … are talking to banks about people s mortgage payments … how will people losing jobs pay rents out of dole payments.

            The same way people who have businesses, no money no paying the rent or the utilities.

            That is why have been crying for a rent/mortgage/lease/bill holiday now for a few weeks. it should have been the first thing to announce. We can discuss repaying the accrued outstanding debt once we are through this current crisis.

            And i do hope that they will come around to it. France just by decree dis-allowed the cutting of utilities to any household or business that does not pay incoming bills. If a company were to shut of water/lights etc, this would be considered a criminal act.

            El Salvador has instituted a three month period, and after that should things go to normal people will have two years to pay back the accrued debt without interest. I would very much welcome this at least for businesses. If we can continue to work, we stay of the dole, and pay back the debt. Way better then to expect us to call the bank for a loan.

            • SPC 9.3.1.1.2.1
              23 March 2020 at 8:10 pm

              Their first choice was some continuing tourism and domestic activity – so subsidising wages to keep people in work was the focus (and extended this to more than $150,000 per firm – presumably to cover the month shut-down).

              The next package will deal with payments (business and residential) and new income arrangements for those laid off and casual/gig workers.

              • Sabine …
                23 March 2020 at 9:13 pm

                your words in the ears of all the gods who care.

                because we can not afford more homeless people. And unless people can pay their overheads they can't keep their businesses. And if they don't keep their businesses they will not need wage subsidies.

                So here is hoping.

    • lprent 9.4
      23 March 2020 at 6:06 pm

      To move from level 2 to 3 requires community transmission and/or multiple clusters breaking out.  When did that happen?

      Two cases that came through on friday have now been confirmed as community transmission. There are no obvious connections with overseas travellers.

      It was in Bloomfield's earlier statement at ? midday? and referenced by Ardern.

      The phase 4 announcement is a heads up rather than decree. The decrees have to be passed by parliament (from memory both are actually orders in council that are open to debate in parliament ). The reason for the heads up was because based on the known morphology of the disease in other societies, we will need those decrees shortly.

      • Paddington 9.4.1
        23 March 2020 at 6:19 pm

        "The phase 4 announcement is a heads up rather than decree. "

        That isn't correct.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12319029

        "In 48 hours the alert level would be raised to level 4 – "stay at home" instruction, schools and businesses closed except essential services, severely limited travel – and will remain in place for a minimum of four weeks.

        The Prime Minister's Office has confirmed that Alert Level 4 will take effect from 11.59pm on Wednesday."

        Based on overseas experience, we should have been at level 4 well before now.
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/03/same-trajectory-as-italy-gp-says-nz-too-late-in-raising-coronavirus-alert-level.html

      • lprent 9.4.2
        23 March 2020 at 6:20 pm

        Plus the reasons for phases weren't rules they were indications of when things would change.

        //=======

        sotto voice…

        Paddington: please keep up dear… Do you need your cocoa now? Along with these exciting medications…. Do you know what year it is?

        😈

        • Paddington 9.4.2.1
          23 March 2020 at 6:49 pm

          You're patronising conclusion seems to hide a profound ignorance.

          First you claimed that "The phase 4 announcement is a heads up rather than decree". That was patently false.

          Now you claim "Plus the reasons for phases weren't rules they were indications of when things would change." Are you serious?

          From the PM:

          "The international situation is changing rapidly and we need to clearly signpost the changes New Zealanders will be asked to make as we step up our efforts to limit the spread of the virus," Ardern said.

          "The alert system means people can see and plan for the kinds of restrictions we may be required to put in place, which may be required rapidly."

          Individuals and organisations of all kinds need to plan. In this case they plan based on what the government communicates.

          The government produces an alert system on Saturday. On Monday they throw it under the bus. Somebody is not on top of this.

          • solkta 9.4.2.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 6:57 pm

            Wow you should get a pedantic medal. Special just for you.

          • SPC 9.4.2.1.2
            23 March 2020 at 7:08 pm

            If you reckon we should be at level 4 already, why the concern that the government is now rushing to get there, rather than adhere to a slower moving process?

            • Paddington 9.4.2.1.2.1
              23 March 2020 at 7:20 pm

              1. The government announced a tiered alert/response system, designed to provide time to plan for the various eventualities. That was an excellent initiative.

              2. 2 days after announcing that system, they break it.

              I suspect this is not the governments fault. I suspect that matters are moving faster than some thought. But there have been professionals who have been saying for some time that we are not moving fast enough. Except the NZNO, who seem to be living in a parrallel universe ("NZNO associate professional services manager Hilary Graham-Smith said it wasn't necessary move to a higher level. If it unsettles people and they think the right decisions aren't being made then yes we will have a state of panic," she told Newshub." https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/03/same-trajectory-as-italy-gp-says-nz-too-late-in-raising-coronavirus-alert-level.html

              • RedLogix …
                23 March 2020 at 7:40 pm

                Sighs.

                Because this virus has the very unusual characteristic that you are infectious well before you have any physical symptoms, then by the time you have only a handful of diagnosed clinical cases, you already have the "sustained and intensive transmission and widespread outbreak" the Level 4 criteria required.

                • SPC …
                  23 March 2020 at 7:53 pm

                  Does MOH now accept this spread by those without symptoms? For a while they seem to be “reassuring” us that lack of such meant there was no “risk” to others.

                • Sabine …
                  23 March 2020 at 8:02 pm

                  And in saying that we have known this since December when China alerted WHO about his very unusual virus. And the US has known this since January and they down played it like the dumb arses they are. And we had weeks to watch Italy, Spain, France, England, Germany, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea and we had a choice to take as to which way we want to go. And the way Asia did it is the correct one.

                  So not to poo poo the government, they are between a rock and a hard place, but we should have gone in shut down the first day we had cases. We know that the virus does not show symptoms in young children but they can be carriers. We know that not everyone who has the virus will show strong symptoms, some might not show any. And we know that this virus kills, and does so fast. We also know that tests can come back negative incorrectly and we know this because it has been in the news the world over now since at least December 2019.

                  i feel that the first reaction was to save what ever we can save of this economy, but the only way for the government to do so now is to print money send it to people so that they can continue paying rent/leases/ mortgages and food and paying utilities. If they do that very social thing we will at least not end up all out in the streets – and that even includes landlors with mortgages – and/or sitting in our houses the week before eviction without water, lights and food.

                  I am just pleased that we are going into shut down. I would hate to be the bringer of death to someone.

                  G, the man of he house is 'essential' service and we have procedures in place for him and knowing him he will strictly adhere to it. Hopefully it will keep him and myself healthy and alive.

                  Its a whole new brave world. Welcome to the dark ages.

                  • RedLogix …
                    23 March 2020 at 8:18 pm

                    heh … my partner tends to regard me as an 'essential service' too cheeky

                    • Sabine …
                      23 March 2020 at 8:29 pm

                      He fixes machines and he is. so right now i am alone at home and he is in Papamoa fixing machines.

                      usually its just a nuisance this night time working and driving, but now …it is stressful.

                      booze will fix it. I shall be permanently drunk for then next 4 weeks.

                      prost.

              • SPC …
                23 March 2020 at 7:41 pm

                Nurses are realists, they know part of their practice is managing people – its the academics who advocate policy without appreciation of implementation complexity – managing people.

    • Incognito 9.5
      23 March 2020 at 7:04 pm

      When you look at the (brief) descriptions of the New Zealand COVID-19 Alert Levels you’ll see:

      Level 3 – Heightened risk that disease is not contained

      Level 4 – Likely that disease is not contained [my italics]

      The Risk Assessment associated with Level 4 is:

      • Sustained and intensive transmission
      • Widespread outbreaks

      I would suggest that if either of these occur it is obvious that disease is not contained.

      In other words, I don’t necessarily read the Risk Assessments as trigger points to escalate (or deescalate) the alert levels but as trajectories if the alert level is not changed/adjusted. The difference between a snapshot in time & static assessment and viewing it as a dynamic rapidly evolving process. I think you’d agree that the situation is the latter.

      I also think it may be misleading to read these Alert Levels as black & white. There are grey areas in between leaving room and flexibility for sound judgement.

      HTH

      • Paddington 9.5.1
        23 March 2020 at 7:28 pm

        We don't currently have either of the criteria bullet pointed.

        If the levels were 'trajectories', why provide the level of detail? Why not just keep it as vague as the 'header' guidelines you quoted?

        The alert system was an excellent initiative that provided some sense of understanding for those of us who run stuff what would happen and under what conditions.

  10. Rosemary McDonald 10
    23 March 2020 at 5:15 pm

    So. Are the restaurants, bars and casinos still trading?

    • Sabine 10.1
      23 March 2020 at 5:21 pm

      those that have not shut already will be closing tomorrow as per the shut down procedures.

      mind, many of the restaurants are already shut as they have no customers.

      And the booze shops are doing well, at least the one next to the hairdressers. so hopefully people will stay the f at home. Casinos. Burn them down.

      good luck to all of us.

      • Carolyn_Nth 10.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 5:43 pm

        Take away restaurants/cafes also need to close.

        • Andre 10.1.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 5:52 pm

          Takeaways will close. Dunno if fast-food deliveries will be allowed to continue.

          Non-essential businesses

          Non-essential businesses must now close. All bars, restaurants, cafes, gyms, cinemas, pools, museums, libraries, playgrounds and any other place where the public congregate must close their face to face function.

          Over the next 48 hours as we move to Level 4, takeaway services must move to close their operations.

          https://covid19.govt.nz/government-actions/covid-19-alert-system/

        • Sabine 10.1.1.2
          23 March 2020 at 6:21 pm

          quite a few of them have closed forever. some will close forever, everyone will close tomorrow.

  11. Pete George 11
    23 March 2020 at 5:42 pm

    While obviously there's a lot of work going on behind her but there's a big plus in having a Prime Minister who is such a good communicator under pressure dealing with difficult issues.

    • observer 11.1
      23 March 2020 at 5:50 pm

      I recommend watching Trump's press conferences live, which (due to time zones) are on about the same time. Car crash telly. Compare, contrast.

      The same species of homo sapiens but from different planets.

      • Pete George 11.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 6:01 pm

        I've seen a few Trump train wreck press conferences and tweets, and he seems to be getting even more confused and erratic. His usual blatant lying and trying to talk up the share market aren't working with Covid-19.

        But remarkably there's a big chunk of Americans, and some here in New Zealand, who keep hero worshiping him, or forgiving his many sins because they claim he has done so much good.

    • patricia 11.2
      24 March 2020 at 12:23 pm

      +1000 Pete. PM has been outstanding.

  12. Cinny 12
    23 March 2020 at 6:14 pm

    Silver lining….. healthier eating as we won't be able to get takeaways.

  13. Muttonbird 13
    23 March 2020 at 6:19 pm

    Whatever was left of my sector shut up shop today. Now confined to barracks with two tweens attempting fly-by-night online remote learning.

    All work for me vanished today for the short to medium term, and significant international work may take 18-24 months to come back.

    Today's press conference was very powerful. Crisis leadership is truely 10% delegation and 90% inspiration. I felt JA spoke directly to every single New Zealander. That some are deaf and are still panic-buying is a worry but hopefully the message will get through.

    Robertson was excellent and I thought reassured regular Kiwis that the government had their back. Was nice to see renters were first and foremost in his thinking. Great man.

    • Muttonbird 13.1
      23 March 2020 at 6:34 pm

      Also. Not sure if this has been a part of the Beehive set-up previously but there were up-lights in the podiums today which lit the speakers' faces beautifully.

      First time I'd noticed it – looked great. These seemingly small things add a lot to the way people receive the message.

      You don’t notice it until it’s there – professional, polished, commanding and reassuring.

  14. Instauration 14
    23 March 2020 at 7:43 pm

    Finally some clarity – alluded in today's Ardern speech, referenced in Lynn's post and totally weirded by a delusional Bush.

    https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/influenza-pandemic-plan-framework-action-2nd-edn-aug17.pdf

    (see page 109) – and finally sensibly reported by Stuff;

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120499139/coronavirus-what-is-an-epidemic-notice-and-what-does-it-mean-for-new-zealanders

    Thanks Edge for you insights.

    There are prerequisites for "legal consequences" to be enforceable.

    Has been pretty much "should","must", advice and rule/directive conflation till now.

    Bluster, tenuous and puny interpretations of The Health Act 1956 were peddled as directives. The Ops Manual changes for Immigration were a little more robust.

    Is however a pragmatic way to achieve what needs to be done.,

    Still waiting Epidemic Preparedness Gazetting and CDEMA declaration.

  15. Adam Ash 15
    23 March 2020 at 8:04 pm

    Well I have moved from 'they are not doing enough soon enough' to feeling that 'the government is now doing all it can to contain Covid-19'. The PM's team seems to be working well and comprehensively to do as much as can be done from where we are today. The inevitable deaths will be blamed on the leader, but her recent work will ensure that she survives that criticism, provided she doesn't drop the ball going forward.

    Its now up to us to stay home and keep safe, and let the government do what it can to save us from the worst.

  16. David Mac 16
    23 March 2020 at 8:15 pm

    I'm pleased we aren't in charge of proceedings.

  17. Carolyn_Nth 17
    23 March 2020 at 8:46 pm

    Woman on Checkpoint from, I think Countdown, asked that people stop panic/bulk buying toilet paper. It's made in NZ and there wil be enough for everyone in the future. Plus, when stocks of said paper get low, a new order is triggered, and trucks immediately get filled up with more loo rolls. This is a waste of resources cos the trucks could be better used for delivering food.

    Plus the supermarkets are busy recruiting more staff. Good for more people to have paid work,

    and more staff will help with ensuring people continue to have fully stocked and safely operating supermarkets.

    • weka 17.1
      23 March 2020 at 8:48 pm

      that was a really good interview.

      • Carolyn_Nth 17.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 8:52 pm

        It was. And the whole loo roll buying is just so irrational. A sign of people's fears taking hold I guess.

        Supermarket staff, delivery people, shelf stackers etc should all get medals when this is over.

        Hopefully calm will be restored there in the future. It may also be some places more than others. I heard that the Mt Eden Countdown was busy with customers first thing this morning, but not as busy as it has been.

        PS: The reports that people have been buying up breadmakers & other cooking equipment was interesting. A new trend!

        I used to make bread and pizzas back in a period of my youth – influenced by several friends who were doing it. It’s not that hard, and doesn’t require specific bread and pizza making equipment.

        • weka 17.1.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 9:18 pm

          People want convenience because they're used to going out a lot (also most don't have bread baking skills). I wonder how much behaviour is going to change after this month.

          • gsays 17.1.1.1.1
            23 March 2020 at 9:42 pm

            It would be great if a lesser dependence on supermarkets was a consequence of this situation.

          • Carolyn_Nth 17.1.1.1.2
            23 March 2020 at 9:50 pm

            Well, I'm not a great cook, but I made some wholemeal bread that wasn't too bad…. also wholemeal pizzas. And it gives a sense of achievement.

            It will be interesting to see the long term impact on people's behaviour and activities.

  18. Rosemary McDonald 18
    23 March 2020 at 9:09 pm

    The New Zealand Motorcaravan Association has announced the closure of all our parks, and the closure of all DOC campgrounds…"for our safety."

    We are ordered to leave our Association parks and head for friends and family.

    Not the brightest of decisions.

    Peter and I are fulltime, (without an actual home base) NZMCA members who have found ourselves currently in the awful situation of having to stay with family, in their house, while our Bus is now in lockdown in the repair shop.

    (Shot around there this afternoon in the hope that the Bus was driveable and we could do the lockdown thing in our self contained Bus rather than with the Young People who will be going to their essential work places every day. Place locked up tighter than a fish's bumhole.)

    So. We're stuck, and can't really afford alternative accommodation after WINZ,bless them, cut our Super because we have not, as yet, purchased a wheelchair accessible home.

    Had we had the Bus, we just might have ducked off to a NZMCA park or DOC camp…being fully CSC… and the rules would probably allow for a weekly trip to dump and refill with water and do a supermarket shop.

    But no. There are a surprising number of NZMCA members in out situation who if they are lucky might get to park in a mate's driveway. Others may not be so lucky.

    I predict a shitshow over this.

    Where are these folks going to park up?

    • weka 18.1
      23 March 2020 at 9:16 pm

      I saw that and was stunned at the friends/family that can be reached within 48 hours thing. I'm guessing that camp grounds will be open (and pleased to have people given the drop in business), but there are still issues with that (including cost). I'd rather stay in a DOC campsite than be in a commercial camp ground.

      There's the tourists still roaming the country too.

      • I Feel Love 18.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 9:34 pm

        then imagine the chaos had we gone to "level 4" 4 weeks ago. There will be unforseen situations, many, as one size doesn't fit all, a broad stroke, I hope the exceptions get sorted out, but it has to be expected!

      • Adam Ash 18.1.2
        23 March 2020 at 9:36 pm

        I guess any communal facility has the clear risk of face to face contact and difficulties with maintaining cleanliness (think of the old 'foot rot from the shower' issues endemic to camping ground ablutions). Very high risk. Maybe fully self contained with a nearby waste dump and water supply OK. Another unexpected consequence. Sorry Rosemary!

  19. gsays 19
    23 March 2020 at 9:37 pm

    While we are rightfully lauding the supermarket workers, spare a thought also for the medical staff, the nurses and doctors, the receptionists and cleaners who are getting very stretched as this issue ramps up.

    Here in the Manawatu there have been a few recent resignations (two of which were a direct consequence of the virus), and an unusually long list of staff who should not be working around this virus- age, pregnant etc.

    As per usual, they are the front line and often have to deal with middle class entitlitis, those that dislike being inconvenienced or think that the new rules don't apply to them.

    Including having to chase up gang members and (again) ask them to leave.

    The subject of uniforms came up. I am a veteran of 30 years kitchen work, I was taught to put my uniform on when I arrived and remove it when I had finished work. This is a rare habit nowadays.

    My brother, who works on a boning chain is similar.

    Over the years hospitals have 'sub-contracted' the laundering of uniforms to the nurses. For a variety of reasons, almost all nursing staff arrive in their uniforms and also leave wearing them.

    This is something I hope would change in the near future.

    • Carolyn_Nth 19.1
      23 March 2020 at 9:47 pm

      Yes. I was very impressed with the phone consultation I had with a GP this morning. I had been getting anxious about my scratchy throat, haven't been feeling unwell, but knew it could be strep tonsils which usually require antibiotics. Also, scratchy throat could be one of the symptoms of a mild dose of Covid-19. Wasn't sure if I should see a GP or not.

      Anyway, she was very reassuring and helpful, prescribed antibiotics over the phone in case it is strep throat, and organised for the chemist to deliver it to my home. She answered all my questions and was friendly and generally helpful. She said the antibiotics probably wouldn't arrive today. Probably tomorrow.

      This evening when I checked my mailbox when putting out the rubbish bin, the antibiotics were already there.

      Great service from the chemist, too.

      • ianmac 19.1.1
        23 March 2020 at 11:06 pm

        We are a bit sorry that out volunteering as deliverers of Meals on Wheels has been cancelled. Meals will still be delivered but by one van and Red Crossers. Thought the daily contact for recipients was pretty important but we are too old (+70) anyway.

      • mpledger 19.1.2
        24 March 2020 at 8:55 pm

        I heard before covid-19 became a thing here that strep throat was going around at the moment.

  20. Carolyn_Nth 20
    23 March 2020 at 9:55 pm

    Spark's Covid-19 response includes removing all data caps for business and "consumer" (is that residential?) customers, for the next 60 days waving late payment fees, and not terminating services for those with financial hardship during the pandemic.

  21. Rosemary McDonald 21
    23 March 2020 at 11:03 pm

    Someone tell me again why on earth the Government failed to prevent passengers from cruise ships like the Ruby Princess disembarking and spreading the virus?

    Oh. That's right.

    The economy, and the desperate bid to extract the very last of the tourist dollar.

    Fuckwits.

    • David Mac 21.1
      23 March 2020 at 11:55 pm

      Have you considered being part of the solution?

    • observer 21.2
      24 March 2020 at 12:16 am

      No, that is not right.

      It's arguable that the wheels of government moved too slowly, particularly on cruise ships. But it's nonsense to say they did it deliberately to "extract the very last of the tourist dollar". A sum that would be dwarfed by the billions now being spent.

  22. observer 22
    24 March 2020 at 12:25 am

    Foresight:

    1) Government facing unprecedented challenges in peacetime, keeps many balls in the air but drops some.

    2) People who were much smarter and totally knew this was coming … but didn't get around to buying any toilet paper.

    I mean, let's get real here. If everything was so easily predictable then nobody would have been rushing to the supermarkets today. We've been talking about a coming lockdown for at least a week.

  23. David Mac 23
    24 March 2020 at 1:22 am

    When things get tough you discover who your true friends are.

    I'm hoping we discover we are all there for each other.

  24. xanthe 24
    24 March 2020 at 12:08 pm

    If you think about it there was and is a valid political judgement that was made. ie the success of the lockdown is directly proportional to the buy in of the population. Jacinda has waited till the majority of the population is convinced of the need before declaring. this will have a very real positive affect on the outcome. One again well played Jacinda

  25. Exkiwiforces 25
    24 March 2020 at 11:10 pm

    Still out bush until tomorrow morning, but I have the giggle box on atm watching ABC Ch2, but we have crossed over to ABC 24 News Ch and it appears that’s shit is about to go down with a possible UK shutdown and other extreme measures. Better get to the big green shed tomorrow for some supplies to tinker in my tank hanger when I get the shits building my model ships.

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