Seven days and counting

Written By: - Date published: 2:06 pm, October 28th, 2024 - 80 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, elections, us politics - Tags:

In just over a week the United States will decide on who its next President is.

I don’t understand why but according to current polling the race to the Presidency is really, really close.

On one side we have an old white guy who has been convicted of fraud and found liabile for sexual assault and is facing a raft of other charges. He has been President before, oversaw a horrendously bad Covid response and made such a hash of his tenure that senior members of his administration and party have come out and urged the country not to support him.

When he lost – he staged an attempted coup, urged his supporters to rally on the day the result was to be confirmed to attack the House of Representatives and did his absolute best to disrupt the smooth transition of power to the new administration. And he did not even show up to the inauguration of the new President.

He was caught trying to solicit the finding of enough extra votes in Georgia to overturn the State result, conducted numerous legal attempts to overturn local results, all of which failed, backed moves to create alternate groups of electors to confuse and potentially hijack the final count, pressurised the Vice President to not do what he is constitutionally bound to do, hung him out to dry in front of Trump’s mob when the VP refused to budge, and some Trump supporters came up with a proposal to use the military to seize ballots and voting machines in an effort to prove fraud.

His behaviour was akin to a spoilt 6 year old who has been denied the use of something and then throws a tantrum. His parents clearly did not educate him on the importance of being a good loser.

On the other hand we have a black woman who in her previous life was a very good lawyer. She has served various roles including the Vice Presidency with dedication and skill.

In my view she is not progressive enough. Although she is good on women’s issues and she understands climate change, she has been very poor in dealing with the genocide happening in Palestine and economically she is too lukewarm for my liking. But she is infinitely better than her opponent.

I get the feeling that one of the reasons that Trump wants to win is so that he can pardon himself and relieve himself of the burden of the multiple charges that he is facing.

And he and his supporters will clearly do anything to win. Enough of them have drank the kool-aid about election fraud to have signed up to groups of poll watchers ready to cause havoc in elections in swing states to prevent non existing voter fraud from happening. Stand by as baseless challenges of voters in progressive areas cause havoc.

And the hints of facism in Trump’s campaign are strong. From the demonising of immigrants to the plans to get even after election day to the excessively absurd rhetoric that he employs Trump has shown that truth has no influence on what he says. Branding Harris as a communist fascist within two words of each other should be reason to doubt his intellectual understanding.

If you need evidence backing this claim, then how about this artice published in MSNBC arguing that Trump is running a classic fascist campaign. From the article:

“Kamala has imported an army of illegal aliens and gang members and migrant criminals from the dungeons of the Third World,” Trump falsely claimed. “I’m announcing today that upon taking office, we will have an Operation Aurora at the federal level to expedite the removal of these savage gangs. And I will invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.”

The speech, delivered in Aurora, Colorado, caused the Republican Mayor to endorse Kamla Harris.

And the signs of Trump’s rapid mental decay are strong. Strange ramblings and disjoint sentences should cause his family to step in and make sure he has the care he needs.

Things are that bad, that his estranged niece Mary Trump suggested that one of his performances showed evidence of steep cognitive decline.

It should be one of those occasions for his faily to decide that maybe they should be taking his car keys off him. But instead they and part of the United States want to give him the keys to the White House.

And his backers are an awful, awful group of people. How about Washington Post and Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos who apparently instructed the post that it should not declare who it supports for this election because clearly it would not have supported Trump. Or LA Times owner and billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong who did the same?

Or Tesla and X owner Elon Musk, whose offer of a million dollar a day lottery seems really like vote buying? For a guy whose empire was built on state credits for carbon reduction he sure does pick strange people to support.

What is it with these guys? Do then think they deserve even more privilege?

I must admit that I am nervous of this election. Now more than ever the world needs a United States that is at least responsibly run and forms credible positions on issues. A Trump victory will throw the country and the world into turmoil.

To every voter in the United States please do the right thing. The rest of the world is depending on it.

80 comments on “Seven days and counting ”

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  1. SPC 1
    28 October 2024 at 3:01 pm

    With the scion of the Drumpf family of Bavaria in charge of the GOP, faUSCIAism is certainly the issue of the day. Germany saw off the Austrian Bavarian in the 1920's, but not the 1930's reprise.

    In an age, where the techies now see democracy as a threat to their freedom to make monopoly profits without government regulation. That was always a risk when the USA used security oversight of the worldwide tech monopolies to secure their imperial MIC power with another form of control.

    We should not forget the role of Cambridge Analytica in enabling the 2016 result.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/06/cambridge-analytica-how-turn-clicks-into-votes-christopher-wylie

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/us/politics/cambridge-analytica-scandal-fallout.html

    https://archive.li/Vc1ea#selection-4767.5-4767.17

    We know that Trump won the swing states narrowly in 2016 and Biden did the same in 2020 (despite solid Clinton and Biden leads). The polls this time at least show all the 7 swing states are close (Florida no longer a swing state).

    That this is the case seems to be confirmed by the Trafalgar and Rasmussen polls showing a narrow GOP lead, as they did on 2020.

  2. mikesh 2
    28 October 2024 at 3:07 pm

    I get the impression that Harris is something of a political chameleon: I think she changes her political colours to suit the mood of the times. However I think she started out as a progressive, so it may well be that that is what she is at heart.

    • mpledger 2.1
      28 October 2024 at 10:41 pm

      Of course, the other interpretation of that is that she changes her opinion when new evidence comes to light.

      • mikesh 2.1.1
        29 October 2024 at 9:54 am

        Evidence of what? Neoliberalism? The Washington consensus?

      • James Simpson 2.1.2
        29 October 2024 at 2:43 pm

        In 2019 she said she would ban Fracking. In 2024 she said she would not ban Fracking.

        What evidence caused her to change her stance on Fracking?

  3. Sanctuary 3
    28 October 2024 at 3:17 pm

    What is the appeal of Trump? Well , let me draw a few threads together. We own a rental flat, which has been let out to people with mental health issues. On Friday night, the power was disconnected due to non payment. We spent most of Saturday morning ringing and ringing and ringing – hold, push this button, push that button – to get the power back on. It was difficult, because it was the Saturday of a long weekend. Eventually we got there. But who cuts off someone's electricity supply on the eve of a long weekend? It is just corporate sadism.

    Today at the beach where we are spending the weekend I took the dog for his walk. I went past a bit of a shack where someone permanently lives. Fluttering proudly on a flagpole in the frontyard was a Trump 2024 flag, the newest thing by miles in the property. I thought "why on earth would you be son invested in Trump?"

    I guess when people like that shack owner get their power cut off on the Friday afternoon of a long weekend, they fucking hate the middle class managers who let that happen. The inflicted casual sadism of making people ring ring ring desperately trying to get the electricity back on a Saturday. Those people think Trump will take revenge on their behalf against the rotten local authorities and the rotten power companies and the whole management class. They are consumed with the hatred and violence of the embittered drunkard hurling bottles at the police.

    What the left should be doing is coming up ways to turn that drunken hate into a sober rage against the sadism of a neoliberal carapace that engulfs our societies.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1
      28 October 2024 at 7:16 pm

      What the left should be doing is coming up ways to turn that drunken hate into a sober rage against the sadism of a neoliberal carapace that engulfs our societies.

      yes Well put & a great albeit tricky strategy – might be a bit bold for some Labour MPs.

      The Cruelty Is the Point [3 Oct 2018]
      President Trump and his supporters find community by rejoicing in the suffering of those they hate and fear.

      These are policies that are deliberately designed to administer pain, to add to the total amount of pain in American society.
      …
      That’s how sadopopulism works: the government makes you hurt, and then you want somebody else to hurt more.
      …
      And then that moves you away slowly from democracy.

      https://stimpunks.org/glossary/sadopopulism/

    • mickysavage 3.2
      28 October 2024 at 7:24 pm

      Spot on. The Parliamentary Labour Party needs to think more about where ordinary people are at and less about celebrating PHDs.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.2.1
        28 October 2024 at 9:26 pm

        The Parliamentary Labour Party needs to think… less about celebrating PHDs.

        Trump 'University' couldn't grant degrees. Not sure what "less about celebrating PHDs" refers to, but imho our 6th Labour govt erred when it declined to implement the recommendations of the Tax Working Group, chaired by Michael Cullen (PhD).

        Chaired by former Finance Minister Hon Sir Michael Cullen, it will provide recommendations to Government that would improve the fairness, balance and structure of the tax system over the next 10 years.
        https://taxworkinggroup.govt.nz/what-is-the-tax-working-group.html

        I believe it would be a great shame if a PhD degree came to be viewed as any more of a political millstone in Aotearoa NZ, where anti-intellectual populism has a very firm foothold. It's pleasing to me that our CoC govt included three (new) MPs with PhDs (Parmar,, Campbell, Cheung), in addition to a couple of medical doctors.

        ‘I wanted everybody to feel uncomfortable’: An interview with Eleanor Catton [5 Jan 2024]
        Mailer’s dismissal brings to mind the tonal qualities of the kind of flack Catton endured from mostly men in right-wing media and politics after she publicly criticised the Key government’s anti-intellectualism.

        Tracey McLellan (PhD)
        My focus was to better understand different dementia disorders and what happens after childhood brain injury. I also worked as an organiser for the New Zealand Nurses Organisation supporting our nurses working in primary health and across the health sector.

        Deborah Russell (PhD)
        Her thesis considered how we can change our government systems to make them more responsive to diverse communities. Deborah has lectured at universities in New Zealand and Australia in philosophy, ethics, management and taxation. She is the co-author of a book about New Zealand’s tax system, “Tax and Fairness”.

        Ayesha Verrall (PhD)
        She attended medical school at the University of Otago and worked as a junior doctor at Wellington hospital. Ayesha completed her specialist training in Singapore and researched tuberculosis in Indonesia.

        Ducan Webb (LLD)
        A former Professor of Law, he stood for Parliament in the wake of the Christchurch earthquakes, after acting as lawyer for affected homeowners.

        Megan Woods (PhD)
        Megan worked as a Business Manager at Plant & Food Research. She holds a PhD in New Zealand history from the University of Canterbury.

      • Sanctuary 3.2.3
        29 October 2024 at 8:53 am

        A simple Labour policy would be to mandate vital utilities can only be disconnected on a Monday.

        Doug Ford, the right wing Premier of Ontario, just banned foreign students from enrolling in Canadian medical schools. 95% of places must go to Ontarians and the remaining 5% to Canadians outside Ontario. Populism? Certainly. But why is it necessarily right wing wing populism? 18% places in Ontario medical schools are taken by foreign fee payers. Average Canadian families don't feel their kids are getting a fair suck of the sav. So why couldn't that not be a left wing policy here? Sure, our corporate university managers would scream at the "cost" of doing that, but if you allied it with increased funding and some golden handcuffs then all that would happen is regular kiwi seeing the govt. sticking up for them in the face of a widely loathed self-serving management class.

    • AB 3.3
      29 October 2024 at 9:54 am

      Oh yes. It's instructive sometimes to go and read the comments on The Daly Blog. Nowadays they mostly hate the CoC, but last year they mostly hated Labour, i.e. they just loathe everyone with authority over them. Which suggests that the system is rotten and who manages it makes only a smallish difference.

      • roblogic 3.3.1
        30 October 2024 at 1:12 pm

        It’s a real mixed bag over there, moderation is patchy at best. Bomber allows crazy stuff but removes comments that criticise him

  4. Mike the Lefty 4
    28 October 2024 at 3:43 pm

    Trump is positively the best example of someone who engages mouth long before he engages brain.

    I wonder if he has ever been tested for Tourette's Syndrome?

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    28 October 2024 at 5:13 pm

    I don’t understand why but according to current polling the race to the Presidency is really, really close.

    I'd put it down to the gfc cleaning out the US middle class. Talk of the american dream has been noticeably muted ever since.

    Yeah I know it's because they didn't read the fine print on their contracts. The designers traded on that: treated all them consumers as suckers. The suckers, naturally, are still refusing to admit they suck 16 years later, but they remain seriously pissed off.

    And they're old enough to recall when they could rely on the left to provide a positive alternative to the right. Kamala hasn't marketed herself to them on that basis, right? Probably couldn't even be bothered commiserating with them. So no real difference between left & right is evident to a large swathe of potential voters.

  6. Kay 6
    28 October 2024 at 5:22 pm

    I'm seeing little commentary anywhere about the importance of voting Democrat in all the other elections- it's not just the presidential election. In reality, a Harris presidency won't mean a thing unless Congress and the Senate are Democrat majority. Not to mention their judges (the most crazy system ever), and even local school boards.

    If America wants a fighting chance to save itself, the people have to understand this (how come I do??) and vote accordingly.

  7. Darien Fenton 7
    28 October 2024 at 5:55 pm

    US is not NZ. It is a strange country. Its political voting system is weird. Of course Kamala is not perfect. But you forgot to say she is good on union issues, as was Biden, which is why the large unions and the AFLCIO have endorsed her. The Israel issue has been around for decades and no President has gone there, especially during an election. There is huge funding in behind it from AIPAC and others. It's hard for you and me to understand why sitting at the bottom of the world, but I try to study history. It's not the first time we have seen genocide in the Middle East. Palestine has been an issue ever since the British decided to create a Jewish State right in the midst of their lands after WW2 after the Holocaust. Wars in Gaza go right back, including in WW1 – remember Lawrence of Arabia? I have a pic of my grandfather in law on a camel fighting with NZ troops in Gaza. Meanwhile, I weep for my extended family, who have just escaped Lebanon and are here safely in NZ. My niece's grave is on the border and goodness knows what that looks like. I shed tears every day, but I shed more tears at the thought that Elon Musk and a the racist oligarchs in America might win.

    • Anne 7.1
      28 October 2024 at 6:39 pm

      Thank you Darien. I've learnt more from your comment than anything I've seen on the piss poor TV news outlets. Has anyone else noticed that One News is all about Trump's campaign. Trump this, Trump that… videos of Trump rallies with the occasional mention of the name Kamala Harris tacked on to the end. It is appalling, but of course Trump is great clickbait whereas Harris is predictable and sane.

      I cross my fingers and pray my late father's prediction back in the 1970s that:

      "the next Hitler will come out of America" is not being played out in front of us.

    • mickysavage 7.2
      28 October 2024 at 7:33 pm

      Agreed Darien and if I was an American elctor I would happily vote Kamala.

      But I wish the US Government had a humanitarian position on Palestine.

      And I also wish UK Labour had a humanitarian position on Palestine.

  8. BevanJS 8
    28 October 2024 at 6:17 pm

    Do you really believe media outlets should be in the business of endorsing politicians? …. and the LA times might have made it's decision for even more altruistic reasons.

  9. thinker 9
    29 October 2024 at 7:00 am

    Whenever my friends tease me about supporting the monarchy, I remind them that, without it, we would be in danger of becoming Americans…

    • Macro 9.1
      29 October 2024 at 10:38 am

      Very true. And one gets hope when the next in line is actively involved in campaigns like this:

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/532083/previously-unseen-photos-of-prince-william-with-his-mother-diana-visiting-homeless-charity-released

      The prince has long campaigned against homelessness. Speaking at an awards ceremony for the Centrepoint homelessness charity earlier this month, the prince said homelessness is"a complex societal issue" but that he "passionately" believes it can be eradicated.

      "Achieving this will require a movement that creates systemic change. A change that focuses on prevention rather than management. And one that ensures all young people have truly affordable options to live and thrive independently," he said on 16 October.

      In the forthcoming documentary, he also addresses criticism over whether he is the right man to tackle the issue given his privileged upbringing.

      "I come with no other agenda than desperately trying to help people who are in need, and I see that as part of my role. Why else would I be here if I'm not using this role properly to influence and help people where I can?" he said in another clip from the documentary released last week.

      • tWig 9.1.1
        30 October 2024 at 4:56 pm

        There's a crevasse of difference between a self-proclaimed philanthropist who controls and benefits from 7000 acres in the duchy of Cornwall, worth $1bi and someone who truly wants significant social change to even out housing inequity.

  10. Tiger Mountain 10
    29 October 2024 at 8:11 am

    Trumpy is getting grumpy! He does not want jail time. And will do anything by the looks of it to avoid the orange jumpsuit.

    Kamala has to win the popular vote, but that is only the beginning of weeks of legal challenge and peculiarly American voter frustration and suppression.

    I wish the US citizens with half a brain at least, all the best for their Elections including Congress, Senate and local officials.

    • Macro 10.1
      29 October 2024 at 10:32 am

      Trumpy is getting grumpy! He does not want jail time. And will do anything by the looks of it to avoid the orange jumpsuit.

      That is his primary focus. He does not realise that he is being used by Vance et al and should he actually gain the POTUS in all likelihood could in short time be subjected to Amendment 25. Almost sad really, but if the idiotic voters of the US outvote the sane, he will be little more than a puppet for the Hard Right.

    • tc 10.2
      29 October 2024 at 10:49 am

      They've already begun the challenge with multiple suits on postal votes and related matters across the USA.

      Trump fails to win outright and the GOP observers will start reporting voting irregularities as part of the strategy to discredit the process.

      The lawsuits were an after thought in 2020 whereas now theyre already in play.

  11. weston 11
    29 October 2024 at 9:39 am

    Yep vote Kamala totally agree team !! Theres still far too many hospitals operating in Gaza in fact arresting their staff stripping them to their underwear and confining them in a pit is too good for them !!may as well toss in a few grenades and be done with it !!

    Support the genocide an vote DEMOCRAT its the right thing to do !!!!!

    • Tony Veitch 11.1
      29 October 2024 at 10:04 am

      Do you seriously think the Orange imposter will do anything to stop the genocide in Gaza? You know, the man who moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in a deliberately provocative pro-Israeli move.

      He's far more likely to give Netanyahu a blank cheque to do whatever he likes!

      • Macro 11.1.1
        29 October 2024 at 10:23 am

        Exactly. The Chump will simply exacerbate the catastrophe. He has no idea, and simply says things like he "will end the war the next day", when he has simply no idea of what he is claiming, and little intention of doing anything anyway.

      • mikesh 11.1.2
        29 October 2024 at 10:36 am

        I think I would vote for Jill Stein. I would not vote for Trump, and while Harris is still something of an unknown quantity, she says she will continue with the policies of Genocide Joe.

        • Macro 11.1.2.1
          29 October 2024 at 2:29 pm

          You do realise that a vote for Jill Stein would actually be a vote for Trump – particularly if you were living in a swing state.

          The Jewish community in the States has significant influence politically and Each major Party pays attention to their wishes.

          Pew Research Center surveys, including the 2020 study, show that Jews are among the most consistently liberal and Democratic groups in the U.S. population. Seven-in-ten Jewish adults identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, and half describe their political views as liberal.

          This general inclination toward the Democratic Party and liberal values goes hand-in-hand with disapproval of former Republican President Donald Trump. In this survey, conducted roughly five to 12 months before the 2020 presidential election, nearly three-quarters of Jewish adults disapproved of the job Trump was doing as president, while just 27% rated him positively – far below the 65% who approved of President Barack Obama’s job performance in 2013.

          Orthodox Jews, however, stand out as a small subgroup (roughly one-in-ten Jewish adults) whose political profile is virtually the reverse of Jews as a whole: 60% of Orthodox Jews describe their political views as conservative, 75% identify as Republicans or lean toward the GOP, and 81% approved of Trump’s job performance at the time of the survey.

          https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-political-views/

          • Bearded Git 11.1.2.1.1
            29 October 2024 at 2:59 pm

            But the Jews are only 2.4% of the USA's population, and many of them are horrified by what is going on in Israel.

            For this reason I'm disgusted that Biden/Harris have not cut off the supply of munitions to Israel. Harris would very likely GAIN votes by cutting off the supply-for instance I read somewhere today that the USA Arab/Muslim vote is splitting 50/50 at the moment where usually it strongly favours the Dems.

            (and BTW it is not, and should never be called, "military aid". It is supplying military materials to perpetuate genocide).

            • Macro 11.1.2.1.1.1
              29 October 2024 at 4:25 pm

              I too am equally mortified by the US's continual financial and munitions support of Israel. But I don't think you fully grasp the financial influence that some factions in the Jewish community have in the Democratic Party. Or the the Orthodox Jews have in the Republican Party. When the election is on a knife edge and a few thousand votes here or there in swing states could determine the outcome, the prudent decision is to stay the course for the time being and not to rock the boat.

              The current estimate of Arab members of the US is around 3 million or less than 1% of the total population.

              • Bearded Git …
                1 November 2024 at 12:26 pm

                Surely it should be about fighting genocide and not about the money?

                • Macro …
                  1 November 2024 at 1:26 pm

                  Totally agree. But there is huge amount resting on the outcome of this election (I'm not talking money here). The very course of the future of this world is at stake here.

                  I could enumerate the many disruptions this idiot would being about, but time does not allow – I'm a full time care giver, and have now only a limited time here. But if you want to know more of what is at stake I suggest this:

                  https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com

      • weston 11.1.3
        29 October 2024 at 11:21 am

        No i dont both parties are morally degenerate when it comes to supporting Israel why anyone would recommend voting for either of the bimbos at the head of them is beyond me .

        • Tony Veitch 11.1.3.1
          29 October 2024 at 12:51 pm

          The lesser of two evils?

          Trump represents a fascist dictatorship potential, which Harris does not!

        • Belladonna 11.1.3.2
          29 October 2024 at 1:38 pm

          Possibly, because their foreign policy on Israel isn't the only factor that voters need to consider.

          For most Americans, they will be much more interested in policy which affects their day-to-day lives.

          Refusing to vote (even if you were eligible to do so) – is a moral failure to consider the larger picture.

        • Macro 11.1.3.3
          29 October 2024 at 2:38 pm

          Any substantive action by the US on Climate Change will be goneburger on Day 1 if Trump gets his filthy little hands on power.

          https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-hates-bidens-climate-law-his-allies-are-making-money-it-2024-10-25/

        • Tony Veitch 11.1.3.4
          29 October 2024 at 4:38 pm

          Bernie sums up the situation very well – 6 minutes long.

        • gsays 11.1.3.5
          29 October 2024 at 4:58 pm

          I agree weston, with the view we have from here, a pox on both their houses.

          I don't buy this 'strategic' voting thing. While I have little faith in democracy (lobbyists, political donations, Epsom 'considerations'), to not vote for the candidate you prefer is a step too far.

          Bit more than a step when the party you are encouraged to vote for is actively helping to maintain a genocide and all the associated atrocities that go with it – schools and hospitals levelled and the bombing of Gaza back to the stone age.

      • SPC 11.2.1
        29 October 2024 at 8:36 pm

        Resistance that makes things worse is a mistake made before, and they know Israel will exploit a Trump presidency. And that Trump's word counts for naught.

      • Darien Fenton 11.2.2
        30 October 2024 at 5:49 am

        Thank you for sharing this.

  12. lprent 12
    29 October 2024 at 9:54 am

    Belatedly fixed a number of spelling and a few grammar issues in the post. 😈

  13. Adrian Thornton 13
    29 October 2024 at 5:05 pm

    "Please American voters do the right thing. Signed the rest of the world"…except of course Palestinians against whom the Harris administration in enabling and giving political cover for a genocide as we speak…also Lebanon, Yemen, Iran, Iraq,Syria whom the US with Harris's consent are either bombing or are actively helping to be.

    But then the liberal class have never considered brown countries to be part of the World (well the part worth listening too or thinking about anyway), so I guess that statement makes complete sense in that context.

    Can anyone imagine Mr Savage making this same statement if the the people on the end of an actual live genocide going on today were white Europeans…I think not.

    Voting for Genocide cos the other guy's Genocide will be worse is not a thing pal, no matter what colour they are.

    [I think you’re a sad example of a good old Leftie who’s lost his way somewhere and you’re wandering angrily and aimlessly in the wilderness madly barking at clouds and pissing on trees. You’re obviously unable to join into public debate without attacking somebody personally and dragging them through the mud. Here, you attempt to smear a TS Author under his own Post with a misleading speculative hypothetical. You’re so blinded by your own bias that you won’t accept that it’s a gross mischaracterisation of the Author and equivalent to a pig-fucker accusation. With ‘friends’ like you the Left doesn’t need enemies – Incognito]

    • Incognito 13.1
      29 October 2024 at 7:08 pm

      Mod note

    • SPC 13.2
      29 October 2024 at 7:26 pm

      Demonstrably wrong.

      For example the author made no comment about Ukraine (nor mention foreign policy includind GW), despite the consequences for them (and the planet) of a Trump victory.

      Referring only to the domestic scene in the USA, as per the continuance of their constitutional republic.

    • Adrian Thornton 13.3
      29 October 2024 at 10:21 pm

      @Incognito
      "With ‘friends’ like you the Left doesn’t need enemies"…the last time I checked the Left didn't endorse political parties conducting racist colonialist genocides…or maybe I missed that memo?

      The absolute blindness of the views (below) at this moment of US backed colonialist genocide and US backed ultra violence in at least five countries are not the views of any Left that I know of…

      "Now more than ever the world needs a United States that is at least responsibly run and forms credible positions on issues. A Trump victory will throw the country and the world into turmoil.

      To every voter in the United States please do the right thing. The rest of the world is depending on it."

      It quite obvious that you and I have quite different views on what being on the Left really means, and quite honestly, I have no wish what so ever to be friends with what ever sort of left it is you think you represent, so that's one problem easily solved right there.

      • weka 13.3.1
        29 October 2024 at 10:50 pm

        thing that is fucking me off about the liberal left and the trad left, is how exercised both sides are about Palestine while almost wholly ignoring Afghanistan.

        I'm also curious about the focus of the outrage on this particular genocide, when other genocides have been ignored. This one I think is easier to explain: Israel and Palestine are more in the Western public's eye, for a range of reasons, than say countries in Africa. And Palestine has much better PR resources now, relatively, in the West.

        • SPC 13.3.1.1
          29 October 2024 at 11:01 pm

          The women of Afghanistan were betrayed twice – when the West supported the Mujahadeen (against a secular regime) to fight the Cold War with Russia and then on not including the women of Afghanistan in any forever war for human rights.

          Now Biden and Harris have kulturkampf war at home to do so for the women of America against the Drumpf GOP.

          That GOP is Christian nationalist and sees an eretz Israel state as part of bible prophecy.

        • Darien Fenton 13.3.1.2
          30 October 2024 at 6:08 am

          Yep ; and Ukraine. I know it doesn't fit the narrative as genocide, but it is a deliberate attempt by a powerful country to obliterate their culture, people and land through weapons and war crimes. You are so right about other genocides, that never get a look in from the trad left ; ie Rwanda, Darfur etc

        • Nic the NZer 13.3.1.3
          30 October 2024 at 7:59 am

          Israel Palestine is a point of focus as it is inside the western political sphere. Efforts there might actually make a difference though the refusal of the Harris campaign to cede any commitments doesn't bode well for that.

          On the other hand in Afghanistan there are not a lot of levers to improve their government and these probably skirt very close to supporting military and sanctions interventions which are not left supportable policies.

        • Adrian Thornton 13.3.1.4
          30 October 2024 at 8:36 am

          You are actually going to go there…actually going to do a whataboutisim on Palestine..holy shit, but then to be honest I am not that surprised, of course you would, it fits your MO perfectly…like a glove…and I am certainly not going to engage in such a unworthy debate.

          BTW the West don't give a flying fuck about the woman of Afghanistan and never have..just like they don't give a fuck about the lives of any single Ukrainian and never have…these people's lives only have any semblance of meaning in the West and it's obedient media like The Guardian, BBC, WoPo, RNZ when they become part of the Wests Geo-political strategy, and only then…that is just a plain fact.

          You can be sure when this awful war in Ukraine is over, and it will be in the not to distant future…the West and it's lap dog media will forget about that devastated country like it never existed…of that you can be sure.

      • SPC 13.3.2
        29 October 2024 at 10:55 pm

        Because the left divides against itself, for lack of conformity on a cause, it chooses to become politically irrelevant.

        Thus enables corporate oligarchy to form a new elite and then resort to fascism to secure its victory.

        When the "terminators" (you will doubt, till you know) come to suppress your resistance, as is their tendency when your "utility" to them is expended, remember that.

        • Adrian Thornton 13.3.2.1
          30 October 2024 at 8:43 am

          "Because the left divides against itself"….most of what is considered the 'Left' today are Centrists….for whatever reason the Centre and it's many political parties does not get labeled under it's own Ideology…like The NZ Labour Party, The UK Labour Party the US Democratic Party as examples…none of these political parties are Left Wing, all are Free Market Centrists.

    • Darien Fenton 13.4
      30 October 2024 at 6:03 am

      Brilliant mod note. I get a bit irritated by those sitting down here in NZ who issue judgement. Yes, what Israel is doing is awful, but it's been going on ever since the Balfour Agreement decided Israel, in Palestinian land would be the place to assuage guilt about the treatment of Jews in Europe last century. Of course US shouldn't be sending weapons, but please, understand this is about right wing politics and nothing to do with what's right or fair or just : eg Israel voting to ban UNRWA is a cause for outrage, but haven't heard a word from our government. Meanwhile, there's Ukraine. Read this morning about the missing children grabbed by Russia and being trained for their military. Trump is the clear and present danger to us all. Sadly, I think we may be in for a terrible time and if you think Aotearoa can sit this one out, you are wrong.

    • roblogic 13.5
      30 October 2024 at 11:16 am

      Did you read the statement joe90 posted above? It's from "Arizona Palestinians, Muslims, Arabs, and Progressive Democrats", deploring the actions of Israel and America, but advising that a vote for Harris is the best chance for justice

      (a slim chance is better than no chance, or making it worse)

  14. Mike the Lefty 14
    30 October 2024 at 11:25 am

    There is a big potential for mass disorder and violence whatever the result, but particularly so if Harris wins. Losing is not part of Trump's vocabulary and his supporters seem quite willing and capable of mounting a more serious coup this time. Last time it was a chaotic effort mounted by a few hotheads but may be bigger this time.

    • Tony Veitch 14.1
      30 October 2024 at 4:24 pm

      Like in NZ, Republican (National) voters tend to be more rural, with smaller polling places and less votes cast, and counted early.

      So the early returns are likely to show a large (but transient) Republican majority. This is the basis (whether Trump realises it or not or chooses not to) on which Trump will declare an early election win – and all the subsequent Democrat votes are fraudulent or cheating etc.

      So yes, there is likely to be mass disorder, and (being the USA) lots of law suits contesting the count, particularly in the swing states.

      The US is a very divided country – as we are in danger of becoming if David S has his way.

      Trump has put quite a bit of effort in states unlikely to vote for him, because it is essential Repubs win the congress, sworn in on 3rd January, so they can deny the certification of the new president if necessary on 6th January.

      Frankly, it ain’t gonna be pretty!

      • Macro 14.1.1
        30 October 2024 at 4:38 pm

        Nope it is certainly not going to be pretty.

        86% of voters said they’re personally prepared to accept the outcome of the 2024 presidential election – regardless of who wins. 66% said Trump is not prepared to accept the results of the election, while 69% said Harris is. (ABC News)

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