The long reach of “5 Eyes”: Not in our name!

66 comments on “The long reach of “5 Eyes”: Not in our name! ”

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1. RedLogix 1

   12 July 2013 at 9:49 am

   Within a decade we will have the technology to securely record every moment of a person’s life from birth to death in a government database.

   Everywhere you go.

   Everyone you meet.

   Everything you say.

   Everything you do.

   Any gap, or attempt to spoof the record, will be a criminal offense with no defense.

   The components of this technology exist. (Think Google Glass). It is simply a matter of putting in place sufficient infrastructure to support it.

   We can eliminate violence, bribery, corruption, traffic offenses, sex crimes, prostitution, sex outside of marriage, masturbation even. For the first time the state will be able to fully enforce a moral code on all of it’s citizens. Criminal trials will simply be a matter of accessing the relevant records.

   And it’s going to happen within our lifetimes. If you think this crazy, then ask yourself… did you imagine 10 years ago that the NZ Parliament would be passing a law legalising the states ability to store and analyse any and all of our communications?
   • Te Reo Putake 1.1

     12 July 2013 at 9:51 am

     I’m more worried about what business will do with the information, to be honest.

     http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
     • RedLogix 1.1.1

       12 July 2013 at 10:00 am

       True enough. I’m not going to quibble with you. Most New Zealanders are already blissfully unaware of how much corporate information is already being captured from their day to day life, and how it is been mined for corporate benefit. Much of this is activity is probably quite benign … but there are no controls, no oversight and no transparency around this at all.

       But given that the state and the corporates interests are so deeply entwined, I don’t think the distinction is all that meaningful in the long run.
       • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.1

         12 July 2013 at 10:04 am

         Intertwined! Exactly right, RL. Marx foresaw state capitalism (ie the state mimicking capital), but in this late stage, capitalism has co-opted the state to its own ends.
         • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1

           12 July 2013 at 10:38 am

           I’ll suggest that by the time the Vietnam War was warming up, the “military industrial complex” associated with the Pentagon and with the CIA was already a force that politicians could not ignore. And from Ronald Reagan onwards, the reach of the financial institutions into Congress and the White House was irresistable.

           For those interested, the Untold History of the United States series by Oliver Stone is a must view.
         • joe90 1.1.1.1.2

           12 July 2013 at 10:46 am

           Eisenhower’s 1961 farewell address:

           In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
           We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

           http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm

           http://www.youtube.com/embed/7gahL5j4ack
     • Rosetinted 1.1.2

       12 July 2013 at 10:17 am

       TRP
       To be honest – after thinking about business, and what use it will make of the stuff, then think about the unholy alliance of business and government that has grown so much, and the amount of lobbying contacts between big business and what we think of as ‘our’ politicians, but who are really ‘theirs’. Politicians are in this big-time.

       Because they are in cahoots with people and businesses who stand to benefit from the huge market that government can deliver, and who are increasingly wealthy and able to totally fund the promotion to the people of preferred politicians and their puerile parties.

       That’s the new tongue-twister. Now pick a peck of pickled politicians. And pickled can mean drunk with power, or being in a state of curation, where good past examples of the type are held for reference.
     • joe90 1.1.3

       12 July 2013 at 10:31 am

       I’m more worried about what business will do with the information, to be honest.

       And as we gobble all the wonderful we swallow the hook.

       http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/technology/silicon-valley-and-spy-agency-bound-by-strengthening-web.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

       http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/surveillance-marketing-complex-coming-soon-computer-near-you

       http://cloudcomputing.sys-con.com/node/1386896
   • vto 1.2

     12 July 2013 at 10:01 am

     All the more reason to go offline and stick to cash, which is easier anyway. Plus the bloody phone wont go all the time.

     But seriously, why do I always get this sinking feeling that the world is sliding towards some sort of meltdown …..
     • marty mars 1.2.1

       12 July 2013 at 10:30 am

       I agree with your first sentence and it is serious, although I would extend offline to ‘out of the system’ as much as possible. The big issue I see is that people cannot see how to disconnect from the system. There are plenty of on-line resources – do some searching. The time to start is yesterday but today will do and every little disconnection is valuable. Don’t wait for someone else to do it for you – they can’t. Don’t wait for a white knight – they aren’t coming. It is time to start adjusting to a new way of doing things and that will mean giving up stuff – start giving it up, it is just stuff, not actually important. I know it sounds sanctimonious but it can be done. Stop thinking of why you can’t do it and start doing it. How do you eat an elephant? (bad metaphor for a vegetarian I know) – one bite at a time and it is time to start chewing. The world is changing and we are the frogs in the pot – jump for fucks sake jump!!!
       • muzza 1.2.1.1

         12 July 2013 at 11:56 am

         Hi Marty,

         Fully agree with your comment!

         Peace
       • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2

         12 July 2013 at 12:59 pm

         The big issue I see is that people cannot see how to disconnect from the system.

         That’s because you can’t disconnect from the system and it’s not because it’s designed that way. You are part of the system and there is no way to change that. The design is that the system has been turned to benefit only the few and thus against everyone else.
     • Mariana Pineda 1.2.2

       12 July 2013 at 2:30 pm

       This legislation should never be passed but if it is, perhaps we can start being creative with the things we write in all of our emails. we could pair phrases so that we use multiple key words in paragraphs and change these frequently

       We could enjoy “blowing up” lots of balloons or plant slug “bombs” in our gardens or insist that we see national party “terrorists” scaring the hell out of our beneficiaries with unfair “lethal packages”. We could be “killed” with kindness..

       I feel sure there could be lots more ideas in this vein which might cause any surveillance systems to be overworked with little actual useful outcomes.
   • muzza 1.3

     12 July 2013 at 11:22 am

     And it’s going to happen within our lifetimes.

     Unfortunately, it’s a done deal, always has been, and there is not anything which can stop this.
     Any opportunity to stop it, was crushed under manufactured threats/wars, deceit and lies, combined with the neo-liberal financial agenda, designed to crush the life of of humanity, while ensuring the resource/power/control base, always rolled upwards!

     If you think this crazy, then ask yourself… did you imagine 10 years ago that the NZ Parliament would be passing a law legalising the state’s ability to store and analyze any and all of our communications?

     Many still see no problems with it, of the small percentage that are aware what’s been going on.
     They believe the machine is there to protect them, and as a result, have been convinced, using transparent techniques, that they are progressing, while the reality is, 99.9% of the population, are regressing, just at different rates of velocity, which over time will level out rapidly.

     Life, is not going to be any such thing as it is currently known in under 20 years, at an absolute maximum, Less, if TPTB decide to hit the big button!

     Technology is not the constraint to the timeline, the capability has been in place for many years already (10+), what the public is told about/aware of, is already decades past, and being used in extremely nefarious ways!

     These agents who are executing the agenda, are wide in the open, the danger always has to present itself openly, prior to any end point, and what you write about, is a critical link in the systems designed, to control, everything!

     Genuine evil rules our world, and science is it’s primary weapon!

     So many are not aware, that their futures have already been taken!

     Another excellent article Karol
   • Rogue Trooper 1.4

     12 July 2013 at 11:37 am

     It was revealing that the MSM trawled the Beebo account of four years earlier of the ex-army shooter who carried out the recent home invasion, and was subsequently shot dead.
2. Rosetinted 2

   12 July 2013 at 9:58 am

   Holder’s agenda links international surveillance with transnational organised crime and “terrorism” that reaches right into the homes of citizens. And in doing this, Holder claims the moral high ground in aiming to protect women and children from sexual,and other forms of violence at a personal level.

   United States Declaration of Independence – We hold these truths to be self-evident – blah blah. Listening in to every home is, simply put, home invasion and that rightly, is a criminal act in NZ. We have other methods of dealing with violence at a personal level, such as countering the lack of restraint and use of violence to dominate and express frustration with programs which are carried out right now and need adequate funding, both for adults and through anti-bullying and socialisation programs for children.

   Looking at the way that sports teams are virtually encouraged to aggression with money for winning as an incentive, and I think two teams in Australia determined to carry out some vendetta on the field, how can we regard violence as an individual aberration. It receives covert encouragement at many levels of society, and is reinforced through films, tv series, and unhappily news footage and documentaries. We need to see it to know it happens, but at the same time it is constantly normalised in some people’s (men’s?) minds. No amount of snooping is needed to reveal that. Just going into the problem with eyes wired open and seeing the truth which is self-evident.
3. yeshe 3

   12 July 2013 at 10:02 am

   Wonder what Eric the Holder will say when he come to understand how Key’s Sky City deal opens us up to widespread money laundering. Paradox much ?

   And thx Karol and Anne.
4. vto 4

   12 July 2013 at 10:08 am

   So why does John Key want to be able to record everything we do?

   What is his answer to that?

   (gawd, relying on the wisdom of John Key, how depressing…)
   • Colonial Viper 4.1

     12 July 2013 at 10:19 am

     It is part of the US intelligence philosophy of “Total Information Awareness” and “Full Spectrum Dominance” (which includes land, sea, air, space and cyberspace.

     This is why I do not accept that they are only collecting “metadata” on all our communications and not the content. After all, their motto is not “Partial Information Awareness” or “Partial Spectrum Dominance”, is it.
     • vto 4.1.1

       12 July 2013 at 10:31 am

       Why does John Key want us to give the US government this information?
       • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

         12 July 2013 at 10:40 am

         It’s the pragmatic thing to do. And I’m being serious.
         • vto 4.1.1.1.1

           12 July 2013 at 10:44 am

           Why is it pragmatic? I don’t understand.
         • muzza 4.1.1.1.2

           12 July 2013 at 11:32 am

           If being pragmatic, goes by the bellow…

           1: Gun to head, literally

           or

           2: Being part of the agenda, while pretending (badly), you’re not

           Then, pragmatic, it is!
           • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1.1.2.1

             12 July 2013 at 11:39 am

             😎
           • Rosetinted 4.1.1.1.2.2

             12 July 2013 at 7:19 pm

             It makes me bellow for sure.
             • Rogue Trooper …

               12 July 2013 at 7:29 pm

               That maybe the partial influence of one John Dewey.
       • Anne 4.1.1.2

         12 July 2013 at 11:09 am

         Why does John Key want us to give the US government this information?

         Read Frank Macskasy’s splendid piece on the Daily Blog. The answers are all there.

         http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/11/the-real-reason-for-the-gcsb-bill/

         The Bill, alongside it’s barely acknowledged “sister-Bill” – the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Amendment Bill – is designed deliberately to mandate the GCSB to spy on all New Zealanders.

         Everyone.

         Not just criminals.

         Not just left-wing radicals.

         Not just Maori nationalists.

         Not just anti-TPPA acctivists. Or environment campaigners. Or trade unionists.

         In fact, those people aren’t the real targets at all.

         The targets are all New Zealanders.
         • karol 4.1.1.2.1

           12 July 2013 at 11:15 am

           Basically Frank is arguing it’s all about the big corporations protecting their control over “intellectual property”. He argues that, with much manufacturing having gone to low wage countries, the main area of commercial activity left to the corporations is “intellectual property”, via Hollywood et al.
           • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1.2.1.1

             12 July 2013 at 11:43 am

             well, the irony is that states (US, China, etc) are among the largest miners of ‘intellectual property’ through cyber-attacks and hacking.
           • Huginn 4.1.1.2.1.2

             13 July 2013 at 3:50 am

             Yes, ‘national security’ and organised crime’ have been conflated with ‘copyright protection’
           • Huginn 4.1.1.2.1.3

             13 July 2013 at 3:50 am

             Yes, ‘national security’ and organised crime’ have been conflated with ‘copyright protection’
         • Anne 4.1.1.2.2

           12 July 2013 at 11:19 am

           Sorry. Ran out of edit time. The piece quoted summarises the answer. Read the rest to see how he gets there…
           [karol: fixed]
           • Anne 4.1.1.2.2.1

             12 July 2013 at 11:45 am

             Thx karol.
5. tracey 5

   12 July 2013 at 10:55 am

   Until one of the 1% is spied on and makes an uproar we are all fucked
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     12 July 2013 at 11:13 am

     No good. I suspect that General Patreous and (Former NY AG) Eliot Spitzer were both taken down by email and txt information initially gleaned from these surveillance systems.

     BTW it’s the top 0.01% who are in charge of things. That’s about 30,000 people in the USA. included amongst their number are the Fortune 500 boards, certain politicians and generals, oligarchs, bankers etc.

     Most of the 1% are just moderately well paid professional sheeple who routinely get it in the neck themselves if they don’t toe the line.
6. tracey 6

   12 July 2013 at 11:24 am

   Moderately well paid, source?
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     12 July 2013 at 12:23 pm

     They’re the 1%. They are the $250,000 pa executive managers, lawyers, accountants, professional firm partners, IT professionals etc. who keep the whole machine ticking for the ultra-elite.
7. Rogue Trooper 7

   12 July 2013 at 11:53 am

   Whose Bill is the GCSB Bill really. From Campbell Live;
   -the US DOJ under Eric Holder is “out of control”
   -from the meeting of A-G’s; ” let’s improve extradition”- Finlayson.
   -after Wevers returned from the US, he then interviewed Ian Fletcher.

   Then there is the discussion in the MSM that politicians (and state servants) may be relying on the use of private e-mail accounts (GMail, good luck with keeping that private) to “keep secrets” from colleagues.

   Example (not secret):” we need to help our Pacific friends resist China”- McCully in an e-mail to John Hays. And now, there is the convenient gift by China to Tonga of the MA60.
   • Huginn 7.1

     13 July 2013 at 3:36 am

     Good question.
     Who drafted this Bill?
8. yeshe 8

   12 July 2013 at 12:32 pm

   So just how many august NZ bodies will Key be required to ignore to get what Holder demands of him …

   NZ Human Rights Commission just out .. nails Key completely on his arrogant stance:

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10897315

   Methinx something constitutional is coming closer ….
   • RedLogix 8.1

     12 July 2013 at 1:11 pm

     Mr Key dismissed the Human Rights Commission’s concerns about the Government’s controversial GCSB legislation and told the organisation to “pull its socks up” for not making a submission on time.

     The naked arrogance of Key on full display.

     The HRC is making a report direct to the PM, not a submission to the Select Committee. Key gets it completely wrong and owes the HRC a full public apology:

     “That’s one of the other issues, the urgency with which it’s been happening.”

     The commission was exercising its statutory ability to directly report to the Prime Minister for only the fourth time since 1993, “because of the seriousness of the proposed bills and to allow for more time to consider the bill’s impact”.
     • Veutoviper 8.1.1

       12 July 2013 at 1:22 pm

       Key’s statements as quoted by the Herald also included this not so subtle threat – which is close to what seems to be a possible aim of the recent appointments to the Commission such as Dame Devoy.

       “I actually don’t think it was a very good submission at all and they need to pull their socks up. If they’re going to continue to be a government-funded organisation they should meet the deadline should everyone else.”

       Bold is mine. Wording is as quoted.
       • karol 8.1.1.1

         12 July 2013 at 1:45 pm

         Could John Key show any more contempt for the majority of New Zealanders and their rights?

         Who is he governing for?
         • Rogue Trooper 8.1.1.1.1

           12 July 2013 at 1:49 pm

           not u.s.
         • Veutoviper 8.1.1.1.2

           12 July 2013 at 2:07 pm

           As RT says, definitely not NZ or NZers – or organisations, processes etc that represent our rights such as the HRC.

           And I don’t believe for one moment that Key has read the HRC report sent to him only a few hours ago to be able to say that “I actually don’t think it was a very good submission at all..”. It just does not say what he wants it to say.

           On the other hand, his arrogant and nasty ‘hit out at the messenger’ reaction is there for all to see, as opposed to the “‘smile and wave’ and ‘I am relaxed’ persona which he seems to be finding harder and harder to maintain.
           • RedLogix 8.1.1.1.2.1

             12 July 2013 at 2:19 pm

             Well spotted Veuto. I read the same lines myself and completely missed the veiled threat.

             The implications of this can be scarcely understated.
           • RedLogix 8.1.1.1.2.2

             12 July 2013 at 2:19 pm

             Well spotted Veuto. I read the same lines myself and completely missed the veiled threat.

             The implications of this can be scarcely understated.
             • Colonial Viper …

               12 July 2013 at 2:37 pm

               John Key. A sold out Kiwi marching on the direct orders of the USA.
               • muzza …

                 12 July 2013 at 2:53 pm

                 I very much doubt, Key, nor any of the so called Americans, identify/affiliate themselves with any boarders/boundaries, or national identity, other than for show, and to deflect attention away from, who they , really are!
         • yeshe 8.1.1.1.3

           12 July 2013 at 3:27 pm

           agree 100% karol .. but what can we do ?
       • muzza 8.1.1.2

         12 July 2013 at 2:15 pm

         VV – Yes that was indeed a threat, made by a foreign agent, against NZ!
9. Rogue Trooper 9

   12 July 2013 at 12:38 pm

   …or, Something Wicked This Way Comes … (novel)
10. tracey 10

    12 July 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Didnt he make the police investigate a threat to publish his teacup chat in public to win votes….
    • yeshe 10.1

      12 July 2013 at 3:29 pm

      yes ytracey .. he did …maybe there’s something in the arguments he used then to hoist key on his own petard …
11. Colonial Viper 11

    12 July 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Russian Guards Service goes back to typewriters

    Trust the Ruskies to sort out the problem.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts-paper-nsa-leaks

    In the wake of the US surveillance scandal revealed by the US whistleblower Edward Snowden, Russia is planning to adopt a foolproof means of avoiding global electronic snooping: by reverting to paper.

    The Federal Guard Service (FSO), a powerful body tasked with protecting Russia’s highest-ranking officials, has recently put in an order for 20 Triumph Adler typewriters, the Izvestiya newspaper reported.

    Each typewriter creates a unique “handwriting”, allowing its source to be traced, the report said.

    “After the scandal with the spread of secret documents by WikiLeaks, the revelations of Edward Snowden, reports of listening to Dmitry Medvedev during his visit to the G20 summit in London, the practice of creating paper documents will expand,” a source inside the FSO was quoted as saying.

    >
    • Rogue Trooper 11.1

      12 July 2013 at 2:51 pm

      Too Many Suspects / The Fourth Side of the Triangle : a challenge to the reader.

      speaking of which

      The Reader : Outstanding!
    • yeshe 11.2

      12 July 2013 at 3:31 pm

      reminds me of this story .. NASA spent $6 billion designing a pen that would work in space ( and a thing of beauty it was !) … and the Russians used a pencil.
      • Rogue Trooper 11.2.1

        12 July 2013 at 3:34 pm

        Russian Literature, sublime and saltmine.
        • Rosetinted 11.2.1.1

          12 July 2013 at 7:24 pm

          Rogue
          You’re salt of the earth.
      • Rosetinted 11.2.2

        12 July 2013 at 7:23 pm

        yeshe
        I was looking for a pen that I could be sure would write if I had to slope it upwards, sick of biros etc. I was told that I could buy one of the pens designed for space, though it would cost $60 to me. (They knocked some 000’s off.) I ended up getting a gel pen or similar. Works well. Costs a lot less.
        • Rosetinted 11.2.2.1

          12 July 2013 at 9:19 pm

          Interesting link from QOT. So the pen was designed for space travel and cost roughly $1M
          to develop. Probably worth every $ of the retail price.
      • QoT 11.2.3

        12 July 2013 at 8:17 pm

        False.
      • Colonial Viper 11.2.4

        12 July 2013 at 8:41 pm

        That was the tale, but apparently a Russian aerospace engineer said it wasn’t true – you can’t risk having loose graphite particles (which are conductive) as dust inside a command module in space.
12. Poission 12

    12 July 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Bit of bad news for Hooton who says the Nats polling is unaffected by the GSCB scandals.

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/roy-morgan-research/2013/06/11/1370907445/new-polling-shows-assanges-wikileaks-leads-new-partie
13. BLiP 13

    12 July 2013 at 4:11 pm

    ‘

    John Key’s lies on this subject . . .

    Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job

    I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher

    I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position

    I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher

    for 30 years, or three decades, I didn’t have any dinners or lunches or breakfasts with Ian Fletcher

    I did not mislead the House (14)

    I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report

    I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number

    the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions

    because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law ammendments, parliamentary urgency is required

    the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect prive enterprise

    it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police

    National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law

    cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers

    the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear

    the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident

    first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012

    first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in September

    I did not mislead the House (6)

    I won’t be discussing Kim Dotcom during my Hollywood visit.
14. karol 14

    12 July 2013 at 7:38 pm

    So, 85% of Campbell Live’s non-scientific, usually leans to the right, txt poll are against the changes to the GCSB Bill.

    And will the GCSB be adding the phone numbers of that “85%” to their regular surveillance list?

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