Time for another round of fear mongering

Written By: - Date published: 10:36 am, October 25th, 2016 - 49 comments
Categories: defence, john key, spin, war - Tags: , ,

Need a distraction from poverty, the housing crisis, and the slow collapse of the health and education systems? Why not go with an old favourite, fear mongering – Foreign fighters in the Middle East could return to New Zealand as Islamic State crumbles – John Key

Foreign fighters returning to New Zealand from the Middle East as Islamic State crumbles is a “risk”, says John Key.

“Realistically all we can do is prepare as best we can, monitor them and see where they return to.”

Sounds like “jihadi brides” all over again – Editorial: The public were misled by the fiction about Kiwi jihadi brides

The jihadi brides affair is extremely damaging for the Government. It raises serious questions about the accuracy of claims made by John Key, SIS boss Rebecca Kitteridge and Security Intelligence Minister Chris Finlayson.

We have a similar lack of evidence or detail in this case – ‘Broad sense’ of number of Kiwis fighting with ISIS, says Key. A “broad sense” means nothing at all, especially from the mouth of a serial liar like Key. Make the details public if you want to be believed.

49 comments on “Time for another round of fear mongering ”

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  1. Richard Rawshark 1
    25 October 2016 at 11:11 am

    He’s full of shit, does anyone believe anything the bloke says anymore.?

    I’d trust Nixon or Trump more then Key it’s been well proven those two didn’t lie half as much as our crooked John the state house dropout.

    • james 1.1
      25 October 2016 at 12:57 pm

      “it’s been well proven those two didn’t lie half as much as our crooked John”

      Since you state it as fact and say its been well proven – how about a citation on that information?

      Or are you simply telling lies?

      • Richard Rawshark 1.1.1
        25 October 2016 at 5:39 pm

        Would I lie to you?

        • james 1.1.1.1
          25 October 2016 at 6:01 pm

          Since you state it as fact and say its been well proven – how about a citation on that information?

          Or are you happy to accept “would I lie to you” from now on as acceptable when people put something forward as fact and proven?

          • Muttonbird 1.1.1.1.1
            25 October 2016 at 6:21 pm

            Key and English no longer ask the question. They just go straight to the lie.

          • Richard Rawshark 1.1.1.1.2
            25 October 2016 at 6:28 pm

            ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

            Well we have Nixon lying about Watergate so once we know of, we have Trump lying about respecting women and being the least racist person one reporter ever met, that’s two…, but this guy must hold the record, hence citation..

            1.I promise to always be honest
            2.I will not be hiring Crosby/Textor
            3.The Government I lead will be a Government of good standards.
            4.we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs
            5.we are not going to cut working for families
            6.I firmly believe in climate change and always have
            7.We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand’s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.
            8.National Ltd™ will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges
            9.National Ltd™ will increase the number of front line police officers by 600 before the end of 2011
            10.there is no truth in Nicky Hager’s book “The Hollowmen”
            11.I didn’t know about The Bretheren election tactics
            12.If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it
            13.I can’t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour
            14. Tranzrail shares
            15.I did not mislead the House (1)
            16. Lord Ashcroft
            17.National Ltd™ would not have sent troops into Iraq
            18.Standard & Poors credit downgrade
            19.the double-down grade doesn’t really matter and its only about private sector debt
            20.I did not mislead the House (2)
            21.I didn’t say I want wages to drop
            22.I can’t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage
            23.lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour will increase unemployment
            24.the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.
            25.the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs
            26.no I have never heard of Whitechapel
            27.I won’t raise GST
            28.people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST
            29.the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase
            30.the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government
            31.no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine
            32.I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine
            33.I did not mislead the House (3)
            34.capping, not cutting the public service
            35.raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs
            36.north of $50 a week
            37.privatisation won’t significantly help the economy
            38.wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones
            39.I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London
            40.Tariana Turia is “totally fine” with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal
            41.Kiwisaver
            42.National Ltd™ is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector
            43.tax cuts won’t require additional borrowing
            44.New Zealand does not have a debt problem
            45.New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting
            46.the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd™ government
            47.It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy
            48.National Ltd™ has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria

            it goes on so much my PC’s memory filled copying it to paste here and I had to reboot!!!!! FFS

            read the LONG list

            https://thestandard.org.nz/the-great-big-list-of-john-keys-big-fat-lies-updated/

            Now what standard the citation is , well that’s debateable, however technically I think I was right.

            • James 1.1.1.1.2.1
              25 October 2016 at 6:52 pm

              The citation was asked for your comment that it’s well proven.

              you cannot – because your comment (unsurprisingly) is bullshit and lies.

              • Richard Rawshark …
                25 October 2016 at 7:43 pm

                Ok James, Keys doesn’t lie, it’s all a figment of our imagination.

                now fuck off.

                • Kevin …
                  25 October 2016 at 9:17 pm

                  Lying is his default position. He slips into it effortlessly like an old comfortable pair of carpet slippers.

                  We rarely get the sharp intake of breath that was always one of the indicators, anymore. THAT’S how good he is at it now.

                  To be fair, he is that good at it now, I don’t think even he knows when he’s is lying, or when he isn’t.

            • mosa 1.1.1.1.2.2
              25 October 2016 at 7:16 pm

              Well done Richard.

            • Groundhog 1.1.1.1.2.3
              25 October 2016 at 10:59 pm

              That list has been debunked. I’ll summarise.

              1. You provide no references for any of the alleged ‘lies’, so how do we know Key even made those statements?
              2. You provide no evidence that Key made any of those statements knowing them to be untrue.
              3. You provide no evidence that any of the statements are untrue.

              What you don’t seem to grasp is that after a decade of trying to dig dirt on John Key, you just can’t accept the fact the guy is actually successful. It must burn you up.

              • Richard Rawshark …
                25 October 2016 at 11:29 pm

                WHAT? by which yard stick do YOU measure success.

                I certainly don’t think amassing 50 million is a sign of anything but greed. Ambition.

                More interested in why I am here, what is the purpose of life and is there a god or is the universe self perpetuating. You know deeper than “MONEY”

              • Richard Rawshark …
                25 October 2016 at 11:31 pm

                BTW your in denial go see a Dr.

                Your wrong on all points, but your looking for a stupid argument on it, and it’s late and i’m sick, n tired.

              • Richard Rawshark …
                25 October 2016 at 11:36 pm

                27.I won’t raise GST
                28.people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST

                Classic keyisms. Cough LIAR.

                Oh and 3 is one of my all time favs as well.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                26 October 2016 at 1:00 pm

                Actually, it hasn’t. If it had you’d be able to link to the debunking.

                Meanwhile, that list is fully supported by MSM linked articles.

                So, that would be you lying – just like your master.

  2. Richard Rawshark 2
    25 October 2016 at 11:12 am

    Though on that note, there is likely not to be none, as much as it’s likely there’s not many.

    There’s always one.

  3. Bill 3
    25 October 2016 at 1:00 pm

    The bulk of foreigners fighting for ISIS, AL Nusra et al are likely from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the ‘stans on Russia’s southern border, Turkey…

    I’m finding it kind of difficult to lend any credence whatsoever to a suggestion that someone driven by an ideological desire to form an Islamic state across the middle east would pack their bags, come to NZ, and then fly back off to Syria or Iraq.

    People from the region, who are now in NZ – why are they here? Are they refugees? How many refugees from the region now live in NZ?

    If not refugees, and also sympathetic to ISIS, then why didn’t they settle in (say) Saudi Arabia which is pretty close to ISIS in terms of ideology?

    And if the ideology, being incidental to them, meant that NZ was an option in terms of emigration, then what’s supposed to have changed so radically that they now feel compelled to pick up arms and fight for an Islamic State across Syria/Iraq?

    • Matthew Whitehead 3.1
      25 October 2016 at 3:58 pm

      Yeah, I can’t see much of a benefit to them coming back to New Zealand, especially given that on matters like terrorism or spying, both National and Labour governments have a long tradition of essentially deferring entirely to US policy, broken only by our slight-more-principled stance on Afghanistan back in the day.

  4. mosa 4
    25 October 2016 at 3:24 pm

    I can’t stand the sight of him.
    And I am sick of being lied to ,he has zero credibility and if there was any justice he would be in jail.
    The Indians can keep him.

  5. Wayne Mapp 5
    25 October 2016 at 3:33 pm

    From the news report it looks likely the issue was raised by the Australians, rather than the New Zealanders.

    John Key will be on safe ground in saying he is concerned. Most New Zealanders will actually be concerned about people who have been in ISIS and who then return to New Zealand.

    The terrorist events of the last two years have been enough so that this is not a threat that can be so casually dismissed as the commenters here appear to do.

    This is also the reason why the current intelligence law reforms are not controversial.

    • Chuck 5.1
      25 October 2016 at 4:01 pm

      “The terrorist events of the last two years have been enough so that this is not a threat that can be so casually dismissed as the commenters here appear to do.”

      The hatred of John Key reach’s near intergalactic proportions by some here. That combined with a “nothing bad will ever happen in NZ attitude” is why some people dismiss any potential terrorist attack/s in NZ.

      Thankfully a much larger portion of the population understand that while we are far away from the hotspots…it does not guarantee we would be immune to terrorism in NZ.

      BTW just imagine if a returning NZ citizen blows him/her self up at the local shopping mall, killing a number of people. The howls of outrage will be heard far and wide here…why did John Key and the SIS not stop it?

      • ianmac 5.1.1
        25 October 2016 at 4:09 pm

        Do ya reckon that Key would be party to a set up whereby an “event” would happen in NZ? Maybe a little bomb somewhere so that tighter surveillance could be justified- just before the next election of course.

        • Chuck 5.1.1.1
          25 October 2016 at 4:20 pm

          “Do ya reckon that Key would be party to a set up whereby an “event” would happen in NZ?”

          LOL, I could just see Wayne Mapp with a bomb strapped to his body…just lost his job and nothing to loss 🙂

        • mosa 5.1.1.2
          25 October 2016 at 7:30 pm

          Key giving permission to “set up an event” highly likely if it suits his agenda and like the black ops run out of his office it could never be traced back to him, he always gets away scot free.

          Him and his cabal are capable of anything and no one in the media will investigate or they will simply turn the other way.

          Muldoon was a pussycat compared to this criminal, at least with Muldoon he never hid in the shadows.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2
      25 October 2016 at 4:06 pm

      Oh noes. I’ve been looking at the statistics and I’ve realised I’m far too unconcerned about being kicked to death by a donkey! Or run over by a bus. Now Dr. Mapp has set me straight, and I can worry a lot more about these things, and crime too.

      A life lived in fear makes far more sense, and as a bonus for Dr. Mapp, makes me easier to manipulate and lie to aswell.

      Happy days, brighter future. Pitchforks.

      • Incognito 5.2.1
        25 October 2016 at 5:00 pm

        Not quite; unless all donkeys are turned into killer donkeys by a highly contagious mutant viral strain of H5N1 that has jumped species and unless all busses become possessed by evil supernatural forces called Christine I don’t think you have to worry about it spreading. I think this is the underlying fear that our Government is stoking: terrorism spreading like a disease or a cancer. We are brainwashed to believe and accept that we must not and cannot tolerate others that are allegedly intolerant of us and our culture.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1.1
          25 October 2016 at 5:43 pm

          What am I going to do? I despise Tory culture, from bullshit to brain-damage, with every fibre of my being. Now I’ve got to be afraid of myself, too!

          • Incognito 5.2.1.1.1
            25 October 2016 at 6:27 pm

            Humans are their own worst enemies, collectively and individually. Do not fear yourself; get to know yourself 😉 I am sure I could find a smart-arse quote that says it better but I can’t be arsed. In any case, that “Tory culture” is not gonna last forever (nothing does!); with the wisdom of hindsight we will be able to read the signs that are already here.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1.1.1.1
              25 October 2016 at 6:48 pm

              So long as corruption and false beliefs are a path to material wealth, Tory culture will survive. Perhaps I just live with it, and point and laugh.

              • Incognito …
                25 October 2016 at 10:00 pm

                Sure, but material wealth is not the be-all & end-all, is it? No comprehensive social theory or philosophy ever put material wealth at the apex AFAIIK. MasterCard was smart enough to realise this in its clever classical Priceless ad campaign. Tory culture is a cul-de-sac unless it evolves …

    • Psycho Milt 5.3
      25 October 2016 at 4:15 pm

      The terrorist events of the last two years have been enough so that this is not a threat that can be so casually dismissed as the commenters here appear to do.

      Who’s casually dismissing it? There’s a risk, but fortunately we’re dishing out wads of cash for the (admittedly-dubious) protection against such incidents afforded by our Security Intelligence Service. It’s not a risk that’s so great it needs the PM to be fear-mongering about it to the nation’s media.

      His constituents are at far more risk of being killed by a pissed wanker who likes to king-hit random strangers or drive stupidly while drunk, but the PM seems relatively sanguine about that.

      • Richard Rawshark 5.3.1
        25 October 2016 at 5:44 pm

        It’s not foreign terrorism that NZ should be concerned about PM. I think though in reality your well aware home grown discord is far more dangerous than a small isis threat, considering the harm and difficult circumstances that breed contempt, like working and living in your car, or being left without mental health resources.

        If I was a member of this current government I think i’d be well aware and well worried more, of how many mental health patients are just wandering about.

        You know if they click on who’s to blame n all. 🙂

    • Stuart Munro 5.4
      25 October 2016 at 4:47 pm

      “John Key will be on safe ground in saying he is concerned.”

      Yes indeed – the making of pious noises is Key’s only skill.

      When historians examine his record it will compare unfavourably with Ozymandias – he hasn’t built as much as a broken statue.

    • Anno1701 5.5
      25 October 2016 at 4:48 pm

      “The terrorist events of the last two years have been enough so that this is not a threat that can be so casually dismissed as the commenters here appear to do.”

      the last Terrorist incident in NZ was in 1985 Wayne, and it was instigated by a Sovereign State not by a “terrorist” group…..

      & dont forget Neil Roberts day is coming up soon , 18th November put it in your calendar 😉 !!!

    • Nic the NZer 5.6
      25 October 2016 at 6:42 pm

      “From the news report it looks likely the issue was raised by the Australians, rather than the New Zealanders.”

      Isn’t that the exact deception used with the “Jihadi Brides” fearmonger? All the individuals identified were Australian. Can’t you come up with a new ruse?

    • Kevin 5.7
      25 October 2016 at 9:21 pm

      To be fair Wayne, I think ‘most New Zealanders’ are more concerned about how Kimi is recovering from the Paris incident, than potential ISIS warriors gracing our fair shores.

      I know this for a fact. Stuff told me so.

      (and they would know)

  6. Anno1701 6
    25 October 2016 at 4:44 pm

    My Maternal grand-father went to Spain to fight the Falangists in 1937

    wonder if im on a watch list !!!

    • Richard Rawshark 6.1
      25 October 2016 at 5:47 pm

      hmm my Grandfather was leader of the Bali Kombatar in Albania and fought..Germans, Russians Itallians, Hoxha hmm everyone.

      shhh

  7. emergency mike 7
    25 October 2016 at 6:01 pm

    The New Zealand public is yet to feel the terrifying consequences of allowing one or two women to leave their homes in Australia and get married in a middle eastern country for reasons that they did not disclose to our SIS.

    When all these brides flood back to Australia and execute their jihadi bride rampage orders from ISIS HQ, John Key and Rebecca Kitteridge will be proved right in keep us scared and afraid of a conflict going on in a far away land. The number of kiwis already killed on NZ soil by ISIS is in a broad sense somewhere between zero and 4.5 million. That’s nothing to sneeze at. How many more dead New Zealanders will the liberal left accept before they get as scared as John Key wants them to be? ISIS is so scary, even scarier than allowing dying people in pain to smoke weed which would be a huge blow for all our children. Because when a jihadi bride straps a bomb to your son or daughter and sends them into their kindergarten to get their 72 virgins in the afterlife, you’ll be wishing that your kid had just ripped a bong instead.

    It goes without saying that anyone returning to NZ from fighting for ISIS should be monitored, but it’s also very important that we are all kept very scared about it. Because while we already thankfully have laws against murder, and while the SIS and the police already have their jobs to do to protect us, we need to be kept afraid and anxious because that helps keep the people who understand the seriousness of the threat in government. While the opposition bangs on about sideshows like child poverty, climate change, corruption, and crumbling workers’ rights, John Key is busy keeping us scared and suspicious of our neighbours when no one else will.

  8. Richard Rawshark 8
    25 October 2016 at 7:52 pm

    Interesting facts about the virgins awaiting me.
    there is also a rumour the virgins is a mistranslation and is actually raisins, which is wrong and which is what this refers too in the first paragraph

    …..

    The Qur’anic Paradise is sensual in nature, promising Muslim men voluptuous virgins but does not specify their exact number. This cannot possibly be a mistranslation because raisins do not have large eyes either or cannot be wed to men.

    The hadith literature compliment the Qur’anic text by specifying the exact number of virgins as 72 and providing us with detailed descriptions of their characteristics. These narrations are not weak but vary in strength from good to authentic.

    We are also given details on the physical attributes given to men to sustain 72 virgins, namely, ever-erect penises that never soften and the sexual strength to satisfy 100.

    Although it does say they will receive a “great reward”, and there are also hasan hadith which refer to 72 virgins as one of the “seven blessings from Allah” to the martyr, the Qur’an does not specify these virgins are a reward for jihadists/martyrs, but rather for any Muslim male who gains admittance to Paradise.

    …….

    I can see the lure, can you.

    from

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins

    What happens to Muslims earthly wives?

    • Richard Rawshark 8.1
      25 October 2016 at 8:05 pm

      The Key cult, I mean you look at the fanboys posting here, and they when confronted with a page of 300 of his lies they still try to defend it.

      Everyone remembers the Charles Manson incident and how those girls worshipped and followed his every order and stayed faithful for years and years in prison..,

      we have ourselves a freaking cult guys.

      Guru key and his faithful disciples.

    • Kevin 8.2
      25 October 2016 at 9:22 pm

      What if you prefer athletic over voluptuous?

  9. Richard Rawshark 9
    25 October 2016 at 11:23 pm

    I see nothing but future problems with 72 ex virgins if it was even true. Then your 6 wives would turn up and start on you, where the F have you been!

    The 72 virgins would come out and guaranteed there will be an argument over the time I spend with each or lack of. Then the wives will cotton on.

    I mean the whole 72 virgins thing, I don’t think it’s that clever and it sounds more like the wishes of a ugly priest than reality.

    Haven’t even got to the camels who now have the hump over 6 wives and 72 , used virgins.

    • lprent 9.1
      25 October 2016 at 11:30 pm

      I was looking at your earlier comments in spam, and not finding any reason for some of them to be there (also no logs showing that anyone put them there). Then I saw a comment with an identical signature go through wordfence (which I was looking through its logs at the time), and then wind up all the way through public.

      What changed? I am now damn sure it is on your end. Dying browser? Bad plugins?

      Mind you – this comment, I’d have been looking at dubiously….

      • Richard Rawshark 9.1.1
        25 October 2016 at 11:39 pm

        Hey Lprent,

        yeah i’m suspecting IE11 has issues mate, I switched to edge(which has other issues)

        Perhaps that’s it. Really sorry if it was, at least it’s something to bear in mind if someone else has a similar issue in the future.. my only get out of an ear bashing card to play 🙂