US Election 2024
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- Date published:
6:05 am, November 6th, 2024 - 157 comments
Categories: us politics -
Tags: US election 2024
The Spinoff’s timeline of results,
So America’s election day, Tuesday November 5, happens almost entirely on Wednesday November 6 in New Zealand.
When do the first polls close?
Polls close in parts of Indiana and Kentucky from noon in New Zealand on Wednesday (6pm Tuesday Eastern Time), but 7pm ET (1pm on Wednesday in NZ) is the time to set your alarm for the first polls closing across six states. Among them is the swing state (AKA “battleground seat”) of Georgia, with its 16 electoral college votes.
And the other swing states?
In North Carolina polls close at 7.30pm ET (1.30pm NZ Wed), with Pennsylvania and almost all of Michigan at 8pm ET (2pm NZ). Wisconsin and Arizona: 9pm ET (3pm NZ). And in Nevada the polls slam shut like a pawn shop grill at 10pm ET, or 4pm on Wednesday afternoon in New Zealand.
Explanation in the Spinoff post about the complexities of how the election results are decided.
1535 NYT live feed
State race calls are streaming in, but there’s no clear leader. Vice President Kamala Harris picked up wins in New York, Illinois and the Northeast, while former President Donald J. Trump’s wins included Florida, Texas and other red states.
…
Most polling places have closed in the battlegrounds of Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Arizona. Nevada’s polls close at 10 p.m. Eastern time. Bomb threats, none deemed credible, disrupted voting in some areas.
Long lines on college campuses as young people turn out en masse
Colleges across Pennsylvania and other key states including Arizona, North Carolina, Texas and Florida reported hours-long wait to vote.
Many were women like Oliver, first-time voters who said they were driven to the polls to support abortion rights and Vice President Kamala Harris.
“Our rights as women really matter, and the fact that there’s laws that control our bodies is just unacceptable,” said Oliver, referring to the rash of abortion restrictions throughout the country after Supreme Court overturned the constitutional right to abortion.
Oliver, an 18-year-old freshman from New Jersey, said she, like many of her classmates, registered to vote in Pennsylvania knowing the battleground state is a crucial to winning the presidency.
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Rogan is in bed/at one with the X'y Elon Musk
In a post promoting his podcast with X owner Elon Musk, he wrote
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/11/05/celebrity-endorsements-election-day-kamala-harris-donald-trump/76062974007/
So did Megyn Kelly
She professed to believe in Trump, standing beside him at a rally in Pennsylvania the day before the election (surprising no one, GOP staffer at Fox News and right wing pod caster since)
At least she will be safe from Trump for a while now …
https://www.usatoday.com/gcdn/authoring/authoring-images/2024/11/05/USAT/76063808007-20241105-t-035907-z-144273028-rc-2-pyaawvf-8-g-rtrmadp-3-usaelectiontrump.JPG?width=660&height=452&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp
Fox News host Jesse Watters says that his wife secretly voting for Trump is equable to her "having an affair".
The whole thing is that it is a secret ballot. Stating that you believe you can dictate to your spouse who to vote for goes way back to the days before women could vote because the men were afraid that if women gained the vote it took away their power to control women.
This revelation, which I am sure a lot of Republican male voters share, demonstrates the Republicans barely concealed hatred of genuine democracy, and democratic processes.
This, combined with Trump's threats to unleash chaos if he doesn't win, is what he see in banana republics. Noam Chomsky was right when he described the Republican Party as "the most dangerous organisation in human history".
For the record, I think Kamala Harris will be elected by around a 40 vote electoral college majority, but there will be several co-ordinated (by Republicans) areas of mass insurrection and widespread electoral fraud will be claimed. The Americans are in for a tough time over the next few months, whatever.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jesse-watters-kamala-harris-voting-b2639044.html
http://www.democracynow.org/2018/11/5/noam_chomsky_on_midterms_republican_party
Saying that Jesse Waters said "his wife secretly voting for Trump is equable to her "having an affair" is rather confusing, for a Fox News commentator especially, since he actually specified Harris instead of Trump in the first reference.
I agree with your following paragraphs, though.
I remember as a small boy listening in to my mother and two aunts discussing (probably) the 1960 election here, and hearing them suggesting that they should vote National just to cancel their menfolks’ votes. No fear of ‘affairs’ there!
I just realised that I put in the wrong candidate name. It should have read ….his wife secretly voting for Harris…..
Makes it a bit more logical.
Obviously I should be better at proof reading.
He said voting for Harris – not voting for Trump …
In the old times only those with property could vote .. so the women did not.
The Catholic Church divides the 10th commandment in two parts – the 9th says he can only tell his own wife how to vote, so that together they decide who rules over the Houses of Congress.
Of course a man of the non partisan media would probably expect his wife to decide for herself.
https/ww.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=what+is+the+10th+commandment+in+the+vulgate
What will happen first?
1. Trump claiming victory?
2. Trump alleging the vote has been rigged?
The time zone difference between East and West Coast US confuses observers every election regarding who is really ahead, and the staggered county announcements for early votes and on the day votes.
What will happen first? knowing Trump he will do both!
King Louis XVI to the Duke of La Roche…."is it a revolt?"
Reply…."no sire, it is a revolution"…. (paraphrased into English obviously).
By this time tomorrow, we will probably know if it is real or just a figment of
Republican fantasy.
That is a dreadful question to put to us. I shall end up coming back and thinking about it until mid-afternoon. It is one of those things that once you hear it you can't forget it. Luckily it will probably be answered by about 3pm our time. Trump will come out with both within a couple of hours of the polls closing in the East.
So you're saying Trump will both declare victory then question that victory by saying the vote was rigged?
Obviously in states where Harris won the vote was rigged. Otherwise, where Trump won, justice was served and the natural order prevailed……
I expect him to do both within the same sentence.
Me too. But it won't be just one sentence – it will take at least 2 hours of word salad, and unhinged threats to accompany it.
If they Herald is up to date, we have an answer.
At midday the Herald quotes Trump as saying
""A lot of talk about massive CHEATING in Philadelphia. Law enforcement coming!!!" Trump posted on his social network Truth Social."
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-results-live-updates-donald-trump-v-kamala-harris-remains-too-close-to-call-as-americans-head-to-the-polls/EEL7KXMYKNGTJL6LOUQPRKIBSM/
DA's response
“The only talk about massive cheating has come from one of the candidates, Donald J. Trump. There is no factual basis whatsoever within law enforcement to support this wild allegation.”
I didn't bother to quote the full story from The Herald. It was
"Despite Trump's claims of "massive cheating" in Philadelphia, local authorities say they have received no reports of issues.
"A lot of talk about massive CHEATING in Philadelphia. Law enforcement coming!!!" Trump posted on his social network Truth Social.
According to the Philadelphia Police Department, there have been no reports of issues and law enforcement is definitely not "coming".
It is not the first time Trump makes baseless accusations of election cheating."
Mickey's question was which of two statements by Trump would be made first. It wasn't whether it would be true.
I thought that the sentence I quoted was sufficient to justify saying that the claim was true. It didn't claim that I thought he was right.
How was Felon Trump allowed to vote?–well it was due to being convicted in liberal New York…
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/politics/can-trump-vote-2024-election/index.html
Sentencing on 26 Nov 😈
Harris will win. Trump will dispute it. How far Trump will go to dispute it is the question.
This is so fucked up.
Just goes to show that you shouldn't support genocide.
4 hour queue, 3 hours to the end of voting.
Boone, North Carolina.
https://x.com/LeighTauss/status/1853908939538321860
A few results coming in now. Seems to be mainly republican seats thus far. Though I have no idea whether there is any swing there.
Pretty much what happens. Projections are favouring a Trump win in the electoral college at present. Kind of expected. Only surprised by abortion referendum in FL at present.
PA, MI WI haven’t called and won’t for a while. GA and NC leaning to Trump. But he had to get those to have a shot.
I'd better get back to my build.
The referendum in Florida required 60%, a majority but not to 60%.
The polls look accurate. It is close.
Raybon Kan:
Hard to credit the power of lies, propaganda, fear, conspiracies, and perversion of religion now rampant in the USA. A darkness that has long remained in the shadows, now stretches out its iron fist to again try to smash humanity.
The Christians are caught in a massive deception. Feels apocalyptic.
Trump has exceeded his past vote numbers in rural areas, also a rise in the Pentecostal Latino vote for the GOP and doing better in the 18-29 age group (whether just males not sure) than expected.
They are engulfed in a fever of spite
Democracy Now election special stream.
https://freespeech.org/watch-live/
Hie is going to win isn't he. Can you imagine what this will do for local right wing politicians? They will think that they are validated in behaving like ….
Looks like a done deal, worse luck. With 75% of the votes counted in Pennsylvania, Trump holds a 3.2% lead (T:51.1% vs H:47.9%).
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=US+election+results
Best you go and have a sit-down and a cup of tea.
Should Trump win which is looking a distinct possibility it will have as much effect on NZ politicians as it would have should harris win…….sweet F.A.
Trump cancelled the TPPA
He will embolden Russia and Israel and destabilise the world making WW3 more likely
His mate Elon will crash the US economy and send the world into economic disaster
His other fuckwit mate RFK (already responsible for a disease outbreak in Samoa) will make any future pandemics more likely and wreck global health initiatives with his sick and dangerous conspiracy insanity
I think you may need something a tad stronger than a cup of tea.
On that we are aligned!
Really?
Would NZ politicians still be keen on joining the US led AUKUS Pillar 2 military pact with the US under fascist leadership?
What do you think China our biggest trading partner would think?
Don't you think that a superpower clash in the Pacific more likely, with Trump at the Helm?
What about the Left in this country?
Don't you think the parliamentary Left opposition, including Labour, will be united in opposing joining AUKUS knowing where a lunatic like Trump will lead it?
Don't you think that the extra-parliamentary Left will let the Nacts take us into AUKUS without organising massive protests against it?
Except the average Kiwi is no where as stupid as the average American voter, well 35% of them anyway.
Our right wingers are about free trade and open borders in the pursuit of cheap labour.
I doubt they will emulate Trump who won on the back of shutting down the border.
Worrisome.
(no archivedotli yet)
@FT
'Donald Trump's dramatic leap in his Florida victory margin over 2020 can be partly finessed by local factors but Virginia is far more worrying for Democrats' — our US national editor
@EdwardGLuce
Get the latest updates on the US election here: https://on.ft.com/3ApFpk1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GbqyU01XkAsA3Yb?format=png&name=900×900
https://x.com/FT/status/1853990269986767265
The Dems will win Virginia by 4-5%
Enough already. So depressing, and all hype.
Chill out they count the in person votes first – generally republican, and the postal votes last, generally democrat.
There are not that many mail in votes this time. If the rust belt holds she will still win, but it is close, as it was in 2016 and 2020. Small margins Trump 2016, Biden 2020.
The Pink Wall.
The Silly Party are already making appointments in key positions in the next government.
The level of stupid among the American population must be closing in on 70%. It struck me from the start that Kamala Harris was way to intelligent and sophisticated for that bunch of neanderthals.
Yep most of them are failing a very basic test of their grip on reality. With a median income of $80,000 per household – a 4% increase since 2022 – these dipshits still think the Dems are "wrecking America".
Sure, Trump secured the white vote with his "birther politics" and then the "patriarchy" vote (rural, Latino and black) when running against women candidates for the White House.
Yes America is what it is. Fat, loud and dumb, at home, as well as abroad. Trump personifies that – a combination of Cliff from Cheers and Archie Bunker.
Plato was right.
https://platointelligence.com/why-was-plato-skeptical-about-democracy/
Plus ca change…
https://youtu.be/h-V1t0PLQ2E?si=2Plcjsy1TIf8JMTt
Once again, Americans have decided they would rather be led by a misogynistic, criminal, pathological liar of a man than by led by a woman.
You really have to wonder at it all.
Not much different from New Zealand.
Hooton has "Trump is no good" awareness.
https://archive.li/xod2M#selection-5661.0-5667.183
The always good Owen Jones, says Trump victory "likely"
If Jones is right, Kamala Harris will be a footnote in history as a failure who supported genocide in Gaza.
Second swing state, Georgia falls to Trump.
A number of Left leaning live feeds calling the election for Trump.
https://news.sky.com/story/us-election-latest-battleground-states-too-close-to-call-but-trump-camp-increasingly-optimistic-13209921
The voters will elect the government they deserve.
I more and more tend to this view. Likewise the ones that don't vote.
You can get a bit of a handle on the well-being of a population by watching live videos of pedestrians walking along famous streets in famous cities. I used to do it.
For example:
St Petersburg: casual but well dressed. Mostly slim. The children well behaved. Polite and respectful of fellow pedestrians.
London: a mixed bag ranging from the slim, chic and fashionable to the ordinary, slightly overweight Londoner. A few misfits among them.
New York: obese and slouching either chewing gum or slurping on milkshakes as they walk along. Children running rampant and no respect shown to fellow pedestrians.
Yep, it looks like they are getting the government they deserve.
Trouble is, the rest of us don’t deserve it.
I was in NY a few weeks back and about 12 months ago as well. Your description of the locals is not what I experienced during my time on the ground.
I’ve fixed your username to match your previous one, so we all know who we are talking to.
Well, close to 40% of the city's population is foreign born.
Your New York description matches my small hometown in NZ except need to add "pyjama-wearing & vape sucking" after 'obese'.
Not over yet. But the probability of a Harris win is wafer thin.
It is over.
It’s going hurt Trump green lights Netanyahu's West Bank invasion.
Trump 46.84%
Harris 27.80%
Stein 21.95%
https://dearborn.gov/sites/default/files/2024-11/UNOFFICIAL%20PARTIAL%20Results_Nov%205%202024%20Presidential%20Election%20-%2042%20PCTS%26EV-NOAV%20-%20ELECTION%20DAY%20VOTING%20ONLY_City%20of%20Dearborn.pdf
How to dig a hole.
A contiguous state Gaza to the West Bank and into Galilee. No.
1948-1967, a post 48 state with less territory. No.
An offer of most of the 1948-67 area as a state with a capital in East Jerusalem in 2000. No.
Intifada. Yes (then the fences and disengagement).
Abbas allows Hamas to run in PA elections, without joining the PLO (sign up to the Oslo Accords). Hamas win the election. Abbas uses the Presidents gun to take back power (no elections since). Hamas take over Gaza and fires rockets at Israel.
Likud is back in power and uses Hamas to justify a settlement takeover of the WB.
Hamas react, Hamas is no longer useful. BN moves, post Gaza to using Hezbollah and Iran to justify the settlement takeover of the WB.
Dearborn votes GOP 2 to 1.
The people get the government they vote for.
PS If the majority for Trump in Michigan is 10,000 or less, it had an impact.
Figures may change – AP is not calling Michigan yet – because they're waiting for the Detroit area (Wayne County) to bring in the final returns (it's still mathematically possible for Harris to win, if close to 100% of those votes go her way). But the current differential is around 300,000 – so way over the 10K threshold.
@MalcolmNance
Middle East:
This is the end of Gaza & the two state solution.
This ends & criminalizes #FreePalestine in America.
Next are likely mass deportations of Muslims & banning any further immigration starting in 90 days
You wanted this.
Are you happy now?
9:20 PM · Nov 6, 2024
https://x.com/MalcolmNance/status/1854076288245354581
https://x.com/netanyahu/status/1854070348926328965
Lutnick is head of the transition team.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-11-06/ty-article-live/u-s-election-updates-trump-and-harris-in-last-ditch-effort-to-win-jewish-and-arab-votes/00000192-f658-d506-a3ba-f6fe73fe0000
""Your historic return to the White House offers a new beginning for America and a powerful recommitment to the great alliance between Israel and America," Netanyahu added.
I guess that translates as "Keep sending those hi-tech armaments for the IDF bro, we gotta keep pounding Gaza"
Miserable.
But it's Broken Axe Scottish Ale on the front deck with the sunlight rolling up the Grandview Range, consoling myself with John Stewart's incredulity.
Our economy is going to suffer substantially with tariffs and trade barriers and with unemployment already at 4.8% it could even double. The only consolation is that the Right in NZ will be blamed and will struggle to recover for years.
210 DEM
246 REP
Early nevertrump Republican;
@RadioFreeTom
I was far more in shock and disbelief in 2016. Eight years of talking to Trump voters, and watching the right-wing media descend even deeper into madness, made me think that tonight was possible. I hoped against it, obvs, but I was far less naive today than back then.
7:00 PM · Nov 6, 2024
·
@RadioFreeTom
If you want to understand what's happening, forget about "the economy" and immigration and all that. This is happening all over the world, among people who think that others are unjustly living better than they are – even while they themselves are living well.
7:01 PM · Nov 6, 2024
·
·
why though? It's not enough to have that perception, if we have any chance of hope and good change, there has to be an analysis of why some people are like that.
Black men opposed a black woman. Hispanics voted to round up and deport other Hispanics. Women voted to take away the reproductive rights of other women.
In a word…
noun
noun: nihilism
"they condemned the show for its cynicism and nihilism"
They have been fed "narratives" by the right wing media (no requirement for balanced reporting since the 1980's).
That and partisan social media has led to less reason in discourse.
The right is better at it, after all convincing the voter to support an elitist narrative to protect their wealth and privilege is one of manipulation (appeal to prejudice and insecurity).
And a lot of money is invested in activist groups promoting a useful “cause”.
The right are good at grabbing the prevailing narrative, Elon Musk did not buy Twitter just for something to do. Billionaires paid in heavily for this US election result and are getting their reward. Women are the first to cop it as the restrictive US state abortion and reproductive rights regime has shown.
Meanwhile the rest of us around the world have to put up with the result of lets face it–rather thick Americans manipulation and voter suppression–a Handmaids Tale or worse USA, total destruction of Gaza, violent expulsion of migrants…
Spend time with your family and friends if you are fortunate to have them, and enjoy our corner of the world as much as you can–despite CoC etc.
When is the rest of the world going to invade the USA?
To save them from the "Taliban"?
Maybe sanctions? China could stop providing components that the Yanks need to build weapons. There’s a weird connection between those two powers
You mean like the USA debt repayments going to China are funding the expansion of the PLA.
Maybe only when the DSA decides it needs Canada's water resources, and takes "measures".
Did Biden/Harris do anything left-wing to help people?
Like cancelling student loans and fixing healthcare and homelessness. And not doing a genocide.
Or was it the same old neoliberal corporate speak status quo.
The Dems only exist to support the illusion of democracy
Totally agree ..
And Harris was a weak candidate..
And a rightwing former prosecutor..
..in a party to the right of the national party..
..never had me that excited/hoping for any real change…
She isn't trump…that's about it..
..and it clearly wasn't enough…
I forget who said it here, in Harris, instead of a female Obama they got a caramel Clinton.
Yes they cancelled debt, re-unionised, onshore manufacturing, fixed a lot of healthcare, and more.
Yes, yes, and yes, and tbf, stopping a genocidal maniac like Netanyahu is likely easier said than done.
The latest round of relief has brought total student loan cancellation to over $175bn for nearly 5 million people since Biden took office in 2021,
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/oct/17/student-debt-relief-biden-harris-latest
“Joe Biden’s health care legacy is a BFD. There would not be an Inflation Reduction Act without Joe Biden – he created it, he fought aggressively for it for months, he refused to give up, and his legislative skills made it happen. As President, he built on the success of the ACA, standing up to greedy drug companies, lowering the cost of drugs and health insurance and expanding affordable health care to millions of people across America.
https://www.protectourcare.org/fact-sheet-president-bidens-health-care-legacy-is-a-bfd/
Today, the Biden-Harris administration released a federal plan for ending homelessness in America that starts with the ambitious goal of reducing homelessness 25% by 2025.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/12/19/biden-harris-administration-announces-plan-to-reduce-homelessness-25-percent-by-2025.html
So..they can put people into space …but they can only manage the 'ambitious goal' of 25% reduction in homeless..?
Reads like incrementalism writ large..to me ..
"…stopping a genocidal maniac like Netanyahu is likely easier said than done."
Only if you lack the will.
You show your ignorance by asking those questions.
Yes, Biden and Harris did a number of good things, including the ones you are asking about.
Trump leads the popular vote by over 5 million'.
https://x.com/PoppyHills99/status/1854034313794199821
If we had a government with any imagination we'd be setting up a special visa program for US citizens who want to move here. Who, for example, would want to work in medicine if RFK is in charge and banning vaccinations?
There is no way to sugar this US election. The Weimar parallels are off the charts. The American people have consciously rejected a failed democratic government and elected a fascist who style of government looks scarily like the Nazi clown show Hitler presided over. A collection of grifters, chancers and lunatics dedicated to rejecting science and striving to please the fuhrer. How long until the right wing militias, safe in the knowledge of blanket presidental pardons, turn into SA/SS style death squads, camp guards and an alternative military organization loyal only to Trump? The USA will now collapse as a nation of laws and given how violent and we'll armed they are that spells trouble.
In terms of what might happen to non-white immigrants, yes that seems possible. It must be an intensely scary moment for them.
In terms of American citizens whom Trump perceives as enemies, it depends on whether he has the appetite for revenge. My guess is that it is likely only if he intends to repeal the 22nd amendment (thereby removing the term limit) and stand for President a third time. That would mean that he has a systematic vision of extended dictatorial control that he intends to implement. I suspect he doesn't have that ambition, but is mainly a narcissist who just wanted the satisfaction of winning 2024 and thereby 'proving' that 2020 was stolen from him and he was never a 'loser'.
No, the 22nd amendment is safe.
The GOP goal is not to entrench Trump.
But generational control of SCOTUS (now done, soon Thomas and Alito replaced with younger justices) and to end the Senate filibuster so they can fully exploit their control of all branches of government.
This to do to the federal state what they have done in some states of the union already.
Voting rights will be their focus.
This to retain control of the House of R in 2026 and beyond (they have the Senate to 2030 after the 2024 result).
Remember Mitch McConnell blocked the appointment of Gorsuch in 2016, this is a GOP project, Trump is their change agent.
The Junkers lost control to their agent in Germany, this lot want their fascism to survive the life of Trump.
That certainly makes sense as a long-run GOP strategy, but it assumes that GOP popular support can actually survive the departure of Trump. Voting rights suppression might need to become extremely draconian to achieve that.
Not really. Just enough to give a state/more states a GOP majority and enable it to gerrymander local state districting and also Congressional ones.
I'm not sure how much gerrymanding they can do. It's pretty much optimal for the Republicans now.
Sure, but voting law changes might bring more states into that orbit and impact on federal elections.
Looking at the 'by State' voting results – and two things struck me.
1. The voting is very close – only a few percentage points in the D/R results for many States. Illustrating what a divided country the US is becoming.
2. The voting patterns within the majority of States. Cities = Democrat; Rural areas = Republican. It's not 100% observable (in Florida, for example, where Trump has a significant lead – there are 'red' cities as well as 'blue' ones; but Washington – where Harris has an equally significant lead – there's only one 'red' city – Spokane – which is right on the border with Idaho – an overwhelmingly 'red' State).
The urban/rural divide remains a very significant factor in Trump's success. His appeal to a huge sector of the rural US which sees itself as disenfranchised (that is truly what they think), and which feels that they have little in common with the populations of the highly urbanized 'woke' cities of the East and West coasts. It's a tale of two Americas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory
One more comment. For centrist liberalism to lose repeatedly to far right populism, something they must defeat, should be cause for reflection. Centrists can no longer pretend everything is fine (until it isn't) and consider their role in the creation of society that allows Trump to flourish but they are still in denial about.
Oh and we had better triple our defense budget and set up a local arms industry.
Farage was there at the Republican election night headquarters. Will he pick up the phone to Badenoch? If he does, Starmer has maybe 3 years to avoid being dead meat.
The left globally needs to learn how to talk to dudes again or we're toast.
They've lost the presidency, the house, the Senate, the supreme court and the popular vote.
This strain of identity liberalism has been utterly defeated in America, and one could argue New Zealand last year too.
Next year Aussie labour and the Canadian liberals are on track to be wiped out too.
Males of all races, ages, classes, religions, sexualities are tuning the left out.
I'm a lefty because I care about affordable free speech workers rights, housing, healthcare, taxation and poverty, all the other shit that has dominated left wing politics for the last decade is absolutely toxic and cringe to me.
If tonight isn't the end of identity politics then it's the end of the left.
Using the term "Identity politics" is a code for:' you don't think like me, my ideas, the old, white, male ideas that should predominate, because they advantage me.'
Exhibit A.
Corey is right. The left thinks it is cool to shit on men. What a loser strategy that is.
I agree.
The origin of identify politics is hate of minorities. If the minorities form an alliance in self defence (because they are woke to oppression and standing up for themselves), then this supposedly legitimises even greater hate of them for daring to do so.
Those who say the left should focus on class, forget the German fascism movement was enabled to divide class resistance to privilege.
To exploit working class hate of other, to destroy it as a political opposition.
Given growing wealth inequality … organising hate of the "woke" is a well funded operation.
So how long before 'arrangements' are made for Vance to assume the presidency (the real aim of the exercise).
…. which would mean, in essence, 12 years of him. (A VP who takes over as POTUS is able to stand twice more in his own right. Truman in 1952 and LBJ in 1968 could both have done so, but opted not to.)
Sure the Court of Saint James King's bible crusade AdVance to reign after the constitution is dismantled. That is the flag of the Heritage Foundations Project 2025.
In prophecy land, it is the Elijah and his Kingmaker play.
Blair was in lockstep with GB junior conquering the land of Iraq (Assyria and Babylon), what will Starmer do, when this becomes onto Iran (Persia)?
Make no mistake, this is Western Christendom on crusade (vs the secular left, “fellow travellers” with Iran/China).
Thus the coming sacrifice of Ukraine and NATO to Russia (coz the EU is secular left).
Musk didn't spend a boat load of money on Trump to let Theil's man gain all the power.
Biggest loser from this will be the climate.
Francis Fukuyama;
Certain human beings, in other words, do not want to be last men; they want to struggle to have their dignity recognized, or to have the dignity of other mistreated or marginalized people acknowledged. If they are privileged to be living in an established, wealthy liberal democracy like the United States, they will turn against their own institutions. As I said back in 1992,
Struggle for struggle’s sake is what happens when we are at the end of history, when the world is actually in pretty good shape, and there are no great causes worthy of risking one’s life. In the “old age of mankind,” all the possible alternatives to liberal democracy have been tried, and none has turned out to be particularly inspiring.
https://www.persuasion.community/p/boredom-at-the-end-of-history-part-i
Voting against monsters, to vote for monsters
Gazans express their support for Trump.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/11/presidential-election-day-trump-harris-gaza-israel-palestine.html
If Gazans suffering under US made bombs think like this, American Arab and Muslim voters would too.
Don't think many American Arab and Muslim voters were going for Trump (some always have), but I'm expecting this election had a high absentee count with them. Decisive in multiple important states. Also enough to swing the popular vote.
The Biden administration, if they have any morals, should of course set in motion a full arms embargo in response to Israels restrictions of humanitarian aid (as promised). That would be both the right thing to do and create a massive political mess in the path of the incoming administration.
https://dearborn.gov/sites/default/files/2024-11/UNOFFICIAL%20PARTIAL%20Results_Nov%205%202024%20Presidential%20Election%20-%2042%20PCTS%26EV-NOAV%20-%20ELECTION%20DAY%20VOTING%20ONLY_City%20of%20Dearborn.pdf
Just keep posting the county by county results here and I'll add them all up for you.
Why? You are in hands over your ears mode
Stick with your Trumplike narrative disconected to facts and be ignored.
Well, I did try to work out what you were saying by posting a raw link of one US county election results. Why don't you explain the obvious to people on the outside of your head.
If you're trying to infer that this sample of American Arab voters strongly voted for Trump in this election then, that requires also a sample of previous elections results for this county and a demographic sample for this counties voters indicating that swing was largely comprised of American Arab voters.
Also, Trump seems to have won the popular vote, which is extremely rare for Republican candidates. Why is one county significant anyway?
I mean there are facts and then there are facts which actually make the argument you are trying to make (which is what exactly?).
Also, a small word of advice, just picking arguments with people because you think they are saying something in an in-precise way is not endearing. It mostly makes you look like an a-hole, even when you do correct people.
Dearborn is the most Arab/Moslem area in the USA.
And votes (did vote) Democrat.
and just to finish your evidence (which I already mentioned you needed), what was Trump's count in Dearborn in 2020 and 2016?
Go and look yourself, You posted no evidence in support of your reckon.
Sea lion someone else.
That's correct, "(I) Don't think" is in fact a recon and at this stage there isn't sufficient evidence collated to draw conclusions about either way on a national scale. Certainly your half baked attempt to contradict (and one would ask why even would you need to contradict that anyway) doesn't tell us if Dearborn voters went for Trump or rather didn't vote in the presidential race.
Regarding the allegations of what ever you are alleging, nobody demanded you reply or keep replying to a comment I made.
The evidence is such a known anyone using google could find it in minutes.
Do go ahead then, will only take you a few minutes and the prize is you get to win you're correcting somebody on the internet for the day.
I'll leave you undisturbed in the, guy who reckons without checking the facts, who also resorts to sea lion posing, category.
A US president is elected for four years, not three years and ten months.
There is no excuse for Biden to remain inert for the last two months of his presidency.
If Joe Biden does not act during the remainder of his term to end the war in Gaza, before Trump takes office, Biden will be forever known to history as 'Genocide Joe', the US president who handed over a starved and bloodied people to their executioners.
President Biden has the power to enact a binding ceasefire and prisoner exchange and halt Israel's genocidal war against the civilian population.
Once the war is stopped, it will be harder for President Trump to restart it, (being the self proclaimed peace candidate, and all that).
If the Israelis are still exterminating Palestinians at the current rate when Trump takes office, Trump's response will be 'let them finish the job'.
You'll appreciate Biden and the old America he held together once the US:
– cedes Ukraine to Russia,
– withdraws from protecting the Strait of Hormuz,
– withdraws from patrolling the Taiwan Strait
– withdraws out of NATO, and
– starts withdrawing out of Australia
This is the world of radical disengagement and a completely self-focused United States
Ad @39.1.2.1
As American imperialism pivots toward the Pacific region and away from Europe as their main area of interest
I don't think Trump will withdraw from patrolling the Taiwan Strait. US imperialism is a bipartisan issue, and always has been, for the super-profits it returns to the homeland.
P. S. I wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trump agreed to lift all US imposed economic sanctions on Russia as well as ceding half or more of Ukraine to the Kremlin, in exchange for Russian neutrality in any inter-imperialist US China war in the Pacific.
*(As well as Nixon giving the Chinese imperialists the green light to invade Vietnam, in revenge for the American imperialists having their arse handed to them on a plate by the Vietnamese)
Middle America repeatedly protested various Left wing movements, and they were routinely vilified in the media.
They don't like their kids being taught alternative sexualities and identity stuff in a deceptive way by ideological teachers.
They don't like being called bigots for trying to protect the safety of women and girls.
They don't like it when a guy defending himself and others from a lunatic on public transport, is arrested and jailed
They don't like how they were locked at home in a pandemic but BLM protestors were given a free pass to riot and loot.
People don't vote "for" new rulers, they vote to get rid of a hated government.
Sure, outfits like Fox played on fear and insecurity and disgust, but perhaps the Left needs to reflect on its own darkness and unwillingness to respect the moral boundaries of faith communities and cultures. Progressive values are not self-evident to everyone and should be negotiated and won over by popular sentiment. Not imposed by an officious lanyard class.
And the liberal establishment failed to deal with Trump after Jan 6, instead going after the small fry. Biden and Merrick Garland should have arrested Trump one minute after noon on 20 Jan 2021, locked him up, and swallowed the key. That's how you deal with a fascist putsch. But they played politics as usual.
(@hntdove.bsky.social)
“but perhaps the Left needs to reflect on its own darkness and unwillingness to respect the moral boundaries of faith communities and cultures.”
It's happening on this post.
Accirding to more than a few, Americans are stupid, misogynistic and racist.
They are being fed 'right wing media narratives' as if to imply their real life lived experience doesn't have any impact.
So condescending, a trait that is so unattractive it helps explain why the left has lost its way.
They elected a corrupt, mendacious, racist, misogynist, serial sexual predator and likely traitor with multiple convictions and judgements against him for fraud.
The boot fits.
/
In the lead up to this election a lot of what has been repeated from X has proven to be off the mark.
I see it is continuing.
So Trump isn't a corrupt, mendacious, racist, misogynist, serial sexual predator and likely traitor with multiple convictions and judgements against him for fraud?
Hey Rob, didn't the pandemic and the BLM protests occur during Trump's term, not the Democrats?
lol
Trump is not the only one likely to avoid court action. Netanyahu and Galant can also breathe a deep sigh of relief.
Pardoning terrorists and war criminals Trump's first order of business.
Israel's genocidal war in Gaza and President Trump's pardoning of war criminals sets the pattern for how all wars will be fought from now on.
As Australia (and New Zealand) defence forces closely integrate with the US military under the AUKUS military pact, and in military exercises like RIMPAC which included the IDF, leniency toward war criminals can't help but become part of our militaries too.
New Zealand's further involvement in AUCKUS Pillar 2, especially under Trump, must be canceled.
Our interest will be in the Trade and Commerce Cabi et appointees.
Nat voter here.
Sad.
Trump has major character issues. I liked him till the insurection. Then it was all over.
The guy has problems, especially when his people like Pence etc. disavow him.
It might be a four long years.
As a Nat voter I thought you would be more concerned with what he will do to world trade.
In 2024 The US became our biggest beef market and beef demand is expected to remain strong, which is underpinning the strong continued outlook for global beef prices. There is also growing lamb demand
That is aall now very much under threat with high Tarrifs looming
This result is surely the final death blow to the pernicious curse of liberal incrementalism and the neoliberal centrist defense of managerialism. Trump talked about issues that resonated with Americans. He might have promulgated the fetid wet dreams of nascent fascism, but the dreams were on topics that people cared about. Inflation and the cost of living are – MSM take note! – more politically important than GDP growth and bank profits. he talked about corruption and the swamp and how he was going to take a flamethrower to institutions two thirds of Americans don't feel work for them. it doesn't matter he is a charlatan and a fraud and a criminal when the centrists in the democrats refused to even acknowledge, let alone talk about, issues of deindustrialisation and falling living standards and corruption. he is promising to smash a system that a majority of Americans think is broken. He promises to do something and Americans thought something must be done and Trump is something so we will vote for him. Harris talked about how she'd change nothing even though the MSM promised her a clean sheet of paper. What were her policies? Reproductive rights and democracy where democracy is widely held to have failed? Republican messaging was machine like, simple, brain washing in it's intensity. The border. Inflation. War. Trump promised to fix it. How and even what "it" is didn't matter. he felt and harnessed the anger with the establishment. He was at least acknowledging what liberal centrists won't – that things are not working for Joe and Jill Sixpack. Centrism, because it cannot acknowledge that the neoliberal consensus is a zombie kept alive entirely by them, instead turned to issues of identity. Except that identity politics is ultimately a form of de-politicisation, where instead of talking about economic issues people are encouraged to police each other in angry tribal warfare.
The bizarre thing for the left is it should be owning these issues, not the right. How did we ever end up with a Labour party that defends the civil service – the same civil service that bogged down it's agenda with six years of gabfests and obfuscation? Like centrist parties everywhere, labour refuses to even acknowledge the issues that worry voters. If a more charismatic leader than Hipkins got up tomorrow and said labour was going drain the swamp of the creeping corruption – yes, use the "c" word – of revolving door lobbyists and journalists and call out McKee and Costello as corrupt and promise to fix it and promised to take a flamethrower to cosy executive salaries and smash the rigged power supply system and forcibly break up the supermarket duopoly and regulate the Aussie owned banks to trim their obscene profits the political and business establishment and the MSM would have a melt down but the public would love it and he or she would win in a landslide. None of the above is even not leftist. Yet somehow we've allowed the fascists and charlatans and grifters to take that language and we've been left defending the indefensible.
Time for some serious self-reflection on the left.
The trade and economy approaches weren't much different between Democrat and Republican.
The primary losses for Harris vote blocs were loss of Latino males, black males, young males, and first time voters. Biden did far better in all of those in 2020. Trump's superior communicative phrasing and repetition and rhetorical energy were unmatched since 2015.
On her themes, Harris running on a narrow female-dominant issue like abortion doesn't work as a primary plank and never will.
Also running on a process-only issue like 'protecting democracy' doesn't work as a primary plank.
All of these will pale for Democratic concerns compared to the united Republican shifts that are about to change the US, comparable to NZ after the 2023 election.
That appears to have been the key to the election victory. The focus became pretty apparent late in the election cycle (ie the last couple of months). But it had been there all along. It got enhanced with the shift from Biden to Harris because it was an obvious misogyny gain in those groups as well.
I suspect that the number of non-voters voting (ie who haven't voted before through one or more elections) was what tipped the balance.
If you look back to 2016 election, a similar but more muted pattern happened then as well.
Yeah, the bland-out strategy was a total failure for the Dems. I probably would have voted for Kamala to defeat Donald, but only on the basis of character. I get why swing-voters repudiated the Dems so decisively: they weren't induced. No reason why.
Such elementary failure of cognition is amazing. Any political tactician ought to know you must give the undecided a clear reason to prefer your option. Yet the left has persisted with this error ever since I first noticed it back in '71. So I suspect your advising the left to do "serious self-reflection", although sensible, will encounter the pearls before swine effect. Some will say its the economy, stupid (as usual) but undecided voters just saw the same old shit and rejected it.
'Murica, wtf?
/
@David_Leavitt
Explain to me how there can be “record turnout” but 20 million less actual votes ?
https://xcancel.com/David_Leavitt/status/1854170881091633271
@DavidCayJ
About 21 million fewer POTUS votes were cast compared to 2020 when 158.4 million Americans voted. "Don't care" grew its base after the one-time reversal in 2020.
https://xcancel.com/DavidCayJ/status/1854178346491408498
20 million ex Democrat voters whose protests against genocide were brutally subjugated. 20 million people who went home and said "fuck it" and didn't bother to vote for either team of genocide enablers.
I thought abortion would swing most women behind the Democrats.
So the third of the electorate who saw the threat to democracy coming from the Dems are delusional, right? Chalk one up for deep state theory then…
Most people vote on issues which directly concern them on a day-to-day basis.
Most women (generalizing, here) don't need to access abortion services on a regular basis; but they shop every week (and see the cost of inflation); they have kids in schools (and see the educational issues); they are aware of their paypacket, and their taxes (and want to see value for money)
So, unless all of those other issues are like-for-like comparable in the election choice – abortion rights won't change their vote.
It’s like Gaza. People may find Biden’s policy reprehensible (indeed, some on TS have been vocal on the issue) – but it isn’t going to be a vote changer for the vast majority of the electorate.
Little wonder people feel like this.
villainchrisk
A black Podcaster summed it up, It's a masterclass in white privilege. He can't say enough racist things to be a racist. He can't commit enough crimes to be a criminal. He can't fail enough times to be a failure. He can't say enough stupid things to be stupid. The idea of him overshadows any reality. The "christian savior" who doesn't know the bible, the adulterer who fucks stars and steals from charities. It's the promise of the protection of whiteness he represents.
https://www.instagram.com/communityofindependents/p/DB-LWbQqkBT/
He should stop the incoherent nonsense of referring to Black voters as a single voting bloc. Or even to an idea of Whiteness. Silly.
Black and Latino male voters in near-majority found all of those elements he deplores worth voting for this time.
A people who feel marginalised and powerless, who see themselves as underdogs, love seeing an underdog beating the odds to triumph. A New York billionaire is an unlikely underdog, outsider, hero, for sure. But that is who Trump posed as, the unlikely outsider who beat all the odds, the white knight that came to Washington to drain the swamp. And it resonated with millions of people who saw themselves excluded from the system.
The attempted but failed assassination, the court cases, that in the end came to nothing, all added to the myth of Trump, the indomitable outsider, who overcame all the obstacles in his path to triumph in the end.
The attempted assassination was a big part of the presidency assured.
You are right, not being seen as a politician was crucial.
'
Trump on the War In Ukraine:
Could Trump end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours as he claims?
I guess its possible.
I believe the US president could freeze the conflict on the current front lines, (maybe not in 24 hrs, but in pretty short order)
By threatening to cut off all US military aid to Ukraine and cutting all diplomatic ties to Kyiv. If they don't agree to freeze the conflict.
By threatening Russia with full scale US military intervention. If Moscow don't agree to freeze the conflict.
America deserves Donald Trump the world doesn't
maybe, but haven't we all been sitting on our hands since 2016? It's not like NZ didn't have a GE in the meantime and also vote in a bunch of protofascists and their enablers.
I’m sure this sums up just how some of us are feeling