Water quality too important for bird-brained excuses

59 comments on “Water quality too important for bird-brained excuses ”

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1. Jenny Kirk 1

   1 September 2016 at 7:47 am

   Up here in the north – around Whangarei and down towards the Kaipara – we have someone, Millan Ruka, who has for the past few years been leading the fight locally against contamination of numerous streams and rivers by farming practices.

   He gets publicity and has documented hundreds (maybe thousands) of instances where cattle have been polluting waterways just like the photos David Parker has taken. And he is gradually making the regional council understand its importance. Fonterra have joined in, but its an uphill battle getting the farmers to understand the damage they’re doing.

   It seems its a massive problem throughout NZ – when are the authorities going to wake up to it and really start putting it right.
2. BM 2

   1 September 2016 at 7:54 am

   It wasn’t so long ago (a blink of a geological eye) that NZ was covered in forest, teeming with birds, and awash with pure water. It’s not the birds that are the problem here

   Introduction of birds

   In New Zealand, early settlers introduced over 20 different species of wildfowl and upland game birds, but few became naturalised. From the 1860s, acclimatisation societies played a pivotal role in systematically importing, managing and, later, protecting wildfowl and other animals and birds. The Protection of Certain Animals Act 1861 encouraged importing creatures from Europe, including partridges, swans, rooks and starlings, largely to provide hunting opportunities. Societies also regulated the shooting of native species classified as game, including ducks and other wetland birds.

   Loss of wetlands

   Many wetlands were drained in order to become farmland. In the 2000s, duck hunting survives on a dramatically reduced wetland resource – approximately 13% of its original area – which favours more adaptable species, notably the mallard and paradise shelduck (dubbed ‘parries’).

   http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/duck-shooting/page-1
   • mauī 2.1

     1 September 2016 at 10:17 am

     Yeah we’ve done an extraordinary amount of damage to the land in the last 200 years. Flooding our rivers with cow waste is the newest fad. Still havent learned.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1

       1 September 2016 at 10:58 am

       +1

       Exactly. The RWNJs still believe we can do whatever we want and that there’ll be no consequences.
       • spikeyboy 2.1.1.1

         1 September 2016 at 5:07 pm

         I dont know if its the same here but research in usa suggests republican states are the most polluted and people who rant about environmentalists and government interference are more likely to live in the most polluted regions. Kind of like creating your own reality. The article is at this address http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176181/tomgram%3A_arlie_hochschild%2C_trumping_environmentalism
         Sorry not sure how to do the link thing.
3. Pat 3

   1 September 2016 at 8:21 am

   At what point is it decided a Minister is not fit for purpose?
   • lprent 3.1

     1 September 2016 at 8:32 am

     I suspect, on the basis of the regard that politicians are held in, that many people would consider that to be when they are elected.

     However I suspect that what you meant was when John Key would decide that lying Nick wasn’t fit for purpose? If so then the answer is obvious – not for a while. After all if John Key dumps his public fool, then people and the media are likely to start concentrating on the next most awful minister. Now Tim Groser has departed, that become a tossup between Judith Collins and John Key – who has been a bloody awful minister in every portfolio he has mismanaged.
     • Pat 3.1.1

       1 September 2016 at 8:53 am

       If Ministers are selected from the governing caucus on the basis of capability by the PM then there must be either a party full of incompetents (or a lot of aggrieved members) or an incompetent appointer….Nick,Paula,Gerry are a few that present themselves.
       • AmaKiwi 3.1.1.1

         1 September 2016 at 11:01 am

         @ Pat

         “If Ministers are selected from the governing caucus on the basis of capability by the PM. . . ”

         Ministers are NOT chosen for their capability! If they were, ministers would be experts in the field they are minister of and therefore probably NOT from the caucus or even parliament.

         We are killing ourselves off because our political system is NOT designed to serve the long term good of ALL the people and future generations. It is designed to serve the immediate greed of those who won the last election.

         End elected dictatorships. The people must control parliament, not the other way around.
         • Pat 3.1.1.1.1

           1 September 2016 at 11:07 am

           you failed to note the qualification…”from the governing caucus”.

           It is a limited pool…. whether or not it is the best process is irrelevant for it is the process under which we operate.
           • AmaKiwi 3.1.1.1.1.1

             1 September 2016 at 11:13 am

             @ Pat

             If we don’t change the process we are doomed.
             • Pat …

               1 September 2016 at 11:15 am

               perhaps so….but I posed the question in relation to the current situation not some hypothetical future.
               • AmaKiwi …

                 1 September 2016 at 2:30 pm

                 It is always the current situation.

                 No one gets elected to parliament because they are an expert in anything except getting elected.

                 I’m finished supporting any party because they are the lesser of 2 evils. I’m telling MPs, “Fix the system or STFU.”

                 It’s like climate change and the consumer economy. A few energy saving gadgets give the illusion of change but are meaningless in the bigger picture. Some new talking head in that cabinet post is equally useless in our elected dictatorship.
                 • Pat …

                   1 September 2016 at 2:55 pm

                   I sympathise but the system(democracy) can work but is dependent on the quality of the politician, and we are poorly served there. Ministers do not need to be experts but they should have the ability to sift the advice available AND act in the best interests of the entire country.
                   To require each portfolio to be filled by a suitably qualified individual would by necessity sideline democracy…..which may be an option some wish to explore.
                   • AmaKiwi …

                     1 September 2016 at 11:25 pm

                     @ Pat

                     You may have misunderstood me.

                     What I want IS democracy. Democracy is defined as rule by the people.

                     What we have is a “representative democracy.” We elect them but for the next 3 years they decide for us and there’s nothing we can do about it.

                     I want the people to have the means to over-rule representatives when the majority of the voters disagree with a particular action they have taken (or failed to take). That does not mean anarchy. It means on any particular issue WE have the final say, not them.

                     Governments elsewhere have this restraint on elected officials and it works just fine. Why not NZ?
                 • Pat …

                   1 September 2016 at 11:38 pm

                   you are right, i have misunderstood you…i thought you were calling for technocrats. Government by binding referenda doesn’t solve the expert problem any more than representative democracy.
     • Observer Tokoroa 3.1.2

       1 September 2016 at 9:53 am

       .
       . Hi Lprent

       . “a bloody awful minister..

       . I shouldn’t have smiled at you neat scheduling of the removal of Dumb Ass ministers of John Key’s shabbynet. In fact, I just laughed out loud.

       . We have to understand that the National Ministers are chosen for their inbuilt imbecility. They have unlimited access to NZ Imbeciles in waiting. I am thinking of Paula hanging around John. Is she being skilled by Nick Evans? Or is she attending one of Hekia’s magic Charter Schools for Fools?

       .
   • Johan 3.2

     1 September 2016 at 10:19 am

     To Pat: Nick Smith has a doctorate, so you would think he would be able to rub a few neurones together???
     • Pat 3.2.1

       1 September 2016 at 10:23 am

       In engineering no less….you would expect a better performance on that basis …guess it goes to show that formal qualifications are not a guarantee of anything.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

         1 September 2016 at 11:03 am

         +1

         No matter what anyone says it needs to be judged on how it compares and relates to reality.

         Almost nothing that National says relates to reality.
4. Keith 4

   1 September 2016 at 8:21 am

   Nick Smith yesterday:

   “…Most of our rivers breach the 540 E coli count required for swimming during heavy rainfall.”

   Dr Smith said some lakes and lagoons were home to many birds, which pollute the water with E coli.

   He gave the example of Manawatu’s Lake Papaitonga, which people can’t swim in unless there’s a massive cull of the birds.

   Nick Smith a bit later in the day………..

   “”What I want to make quite plain is that I am certainly not saying – and did not say in the speech – that either our native or introduced birds are the primary challenge that we have around water quality”.

   Yes you did Nick, on the same day no less. By twisting your words like you do because you couldn’t say anything candidly if your life depended on it, you made it quite clear that BIRDS were the problem, not a mention of cows, nothing!

   Is it me or is the National Party’s response to any situation nowadays to just plain lie? Or where they always like that and we didn’t notice?
   • dukeofurl 4.1

     1 September 2016 at 8:47 am

     They couldnt blame this one on labour, so they blamed our feathered friends
     • JonL 4.1.1

       1 September 2016 at 1:26 pm

       One of the traits of psychopaths is that they NEVER take responsibility for anything – it’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault!
       Sound familiar?
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     1 September 2016 at 8:49 am

     Is it me or is the National Party’s response to any situation nowadays to just plain lie? Or where they always like that and we didn’t notice?

     Reality has never matched National’s ideology and so they’ve always had to lie.
5. esoteric pineapples 5

   1 September 2016 at 8:27 am

   Farmers will love this. They love exterminating any animal life that they deem eats into their profits. That’s why most of rural New Zealand is actually a green desert devoid of life.
   • Robert Guyton 5.1

     1 September 2016 at 9:04 am

     And plants. Leguminous trees, natives that are poisonous to stock, even manuka – remember the importation of an insect that carried the manuka-killing blight, sold to farmers who spread it across the country in order to kill manuka? It doesn’t serve the farm? Gotta go. Kauri, kahikatea, rimu, totora – cattle and sheep can’t eat them – out they go! Explosives, fire, disease and now, better than anything before it, herbicide! Then there are the multitudes of smaller organisms that challenge the farmer, his/her stock, their pastures, but no worries, we have pesticides, rodenticides, fungicides, molluscicides, nematodicides, anthelmintics – we’ve got a full-to-bursting poisons cupboard and we’re gonna use it!
     Now, it seems, we’ll be breaking out the avianicides. ‘Cause.
   • b waghorn 5.2

     1 September 2016 at 12:14 pm

     Some is a great word try using it as in some farmers , like i use when i say some lefties(not all) are so full of hate towards farmers that anything they say is not worth shit.
     • Robert Guyton 5.2.1

       1 September 2016 at 2:36 pm

       Got it. Some farmers are worse than others.
       (Just raggin’ ya, b waghorn. “Biological” farmers, “organic” farmers, “biodynamic farmers” – there are all sorts with differing approaches to farming, we know this.)
       • b waghorn 5.2.1.1

         1 September 2016 at 7:02 pm

         If you called in on the block i look after i could in not much time at all show you a variety of wild ducks ,hawks , magpies, turkeys , Pheasants (my favorite) goats ,deer if you’re lucky ,rabbits the odd hare and all the small birds oh and a falcon on occasion, i use a bit of spray on the blackberry and the worst thistles but now i’m on top of the thistles i use the grubber mostly, theirs trout in the stream eels in the creek, totara allover the show, it,s a bloody dessert out here i tell you.
         • weka 5.2.1.1.1

           1 September 2016 at 7:43 pm

           Nice one b. Are those feral deer and goats? You got a bit of bush then?
           • b waghorn 5.2.1.1.1.1

             1 September 2016 at 7:53 pm

             yes wild deer and goats, there are pockets of bush all through this area and the deer roam as they please .
         • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1.2

           3 September 2016 at 5:48 pm

           “Block”?
           That’s an interesting descriptor.
           Imagine being “on top of the thistles”!
           But yes, b waghorn, the last word is yours and well done that man!
           ” it’s a bloody dessert out here i tell you.”
           Nice!
6. dukeofurl 6

   1 September 2016 at 9:07 am

   When they have looked at even large birds like Canada geese the results are …

   “Results indicate Canada geese potentially contribute only a very small proportion of the overall modelled nitrogen and phosphorus load to the Haldon and Ahuriri Arms of Lake Benmore .

   Essentially its fractions of a %, thats even with the assumption that they graze on land but only defecate on the lake
   And this from an area where the numbers were a ‘problem’
   http://ecan.govt.nz/publications/Plans/nutrient-lakes-geese-upper-waitaki.pdf
7. Robert Guyton 7

   1 September 2016 at 9:22 am

   “The adverse effects of stock in waterways has been known for decades, but
   only four of our 16 regional councils have been able to advance rules to
   address the problem. I have spoken to a dozen regional councillors who have
   tried in good faith to make progress but the local backlash has made it too
   hard.”

   Nick Smith
   • weka 7.1

     1 September 2016 at 11:24 am

     What we need up and running very fast is a mobilisation of the regional council vote in the upcoming local body election. With big arrows pointing to the candidates who will actually do something about water. My sense is that each council doesn’t have enough pro-water councillors. Get enough councillors, and support them, and they have a better chance of standing up to Fed Farmers.

     We need sit ins at council meetings, placards outside in front of the media, direct action.
     • Robert Guyton 7.1.1

       1 September 2016 at 11:43 am

       Ha! Here’s my “candidate profile” requested by The Southland Times to go with their series on those standing for the regional council:

       “The regional council is heavy with farmers. Council decisions favour farming at the expense of the environment, in my view. I challenge proposals that lead to the expansion of farming and the loss of natural places and resources, like fresh water. Representatives of the towns and city like me have to speak up on every issue that would turn the countryside into one big farm, because we all need forests and rivers to visit and enjoy. In any case, our drinking water comes from there, so it mustn’t get polluted.”
8. Psycho Milt 8

   1 September 2016 at 9:23 am

   Nick Smith is living proof that having no sense of shame greatly assists success in politics.
9. ianmac 9

   1 September 2016 at 10:04 am

   “Back in a couple of months.”
   You will be missed Anthony. Your posts are always “Must Reads.”
   • mauī 9.1

     1 September 2016 at 10:10 am

     Absolutely, have really enjoyed Anthony’s posts over the last few weeks especially.
10. ianmac 10

    1 September 2016 at 10:08 am

    Mike Joy’s clip is great if chilling. Of course Key will dig up some other “expert” who will contest Mike’s position. Someone like Dr Smith perhaps?
    Again http://webcast.massey.ac.nz/Mediasite/Play/15c004bce02a4127806e5faab8ee49e11d
11. Bill 11

    1 September 2016 at 10:33 am

    Surely a cull of the peacocks in parliament would be a better way to clean things up. I mean, their shit sprays everywhere
12. Brigid 12

    1 September 2016 at 10:38 am

    Dairy farmers: Cashing in the country’s environmental wealth.
    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      1 September 2016 at 11:13 am

      With the end result being that we won’t be able to support ourselves.
13. Michelle 13

    1 September 2016 at 10:48 am

    So Labours Trevor Mallard isn’t the only one that comes up with bird brain ideas we now have Nick Smith following in his footsteps.
    On another note Chris bishop could do with a new car his car was emitting smoke and gases this morning on the Wellington motorway just like his party all smoke and gas and very toxic
    • Robert Guyton 13.1

      3 September 2016 at 5:50 pm

      “Mallard isn’t the only one that comes up with bird brain ideas”

      Classic!
14. Pat 14

    1 September 2016 at 11:32 am

    “The answer, she says, must be massive investment in water infrastructure. “But in the US alone, it’s estimated that what is needed is $70 per person per day for 10 years. In developing countries its far more.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/31/cleaning-the-worlds-water-we-are-now-more-polluted-than-we-have-ever-been

    but don’t worry, we are assured that its improving……
15. Gerald 15

    1 September 2016 at 1:02 pm

    Its birds that now are the problem, makes a change from Labour created this problem, its people on the benifit that are the problem, P uses are the problem etc but its never the government that’s the problem. Look in the mirror Smith and co!
    • Halfcrown 15.1

      2 September 2016 at 1:32 pm

      “Its birds that now are the problem, makes a change from Labour created this problem,”

      Nah you have missed the point, It is all those socialist communist birds that vote Labour that are causing the problems.
16. Andre 16

    1 September 2016 at 1:21 pm

    Keas, crows and many other birds have proven reasoning and problem-solving skills. It seems slanderous to our feathered friends to describe Smith’s efforts as “bird-brained”.
17. Stuart Munro 17

    1 September 2016 at 2:54 pm

    This is just retrospective justification for the 1080 drop right? Because riparian planting or similar mitigation is just unimaginably hard for some reason.
18. rhinocrates 18

    2 September 2016 at 12:39 pm

    Smith’s Guide to Ornithology:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrPTG-IVUAAYgTE.jpg
    • b waghorn 18.1

      2 September 2016 at 12:48 pm

      there’s some clever buggers out there alright
    • Pat 18.2

      2 September 2016 at 12:52 pm

      lol….and I always thought it was when pigs grow wings
    • weka 18.3

      2 September 2016 at 1:03 pm

      The GE moratorium is off then.
19. Peter 19

    2 September 2016 at 5:29 pm

    God Nick Smith a thick dip stick.
20. Peter 20

    8 September 2016 at 8:02 pm

    I have for the last six years been working on a way of capturing excess nutrients as they leach off farms. They can then be reused again. The same system reduces erosion (sediment) and provides a stable growing platform for plants (bio-filtration) right up to the waters edge.

    For filtering it uses a natural mineral (not zeolite) that holds the nutrients within its cell structure. Going on the average PPM (parts per million) in NZ waterways it will take up to 15 years to reach capacity.

    Sounds too good to be true doesn’t it? which is probably why I have got nowhere here in NZ. But I’m starting a trial in the USA within a few weeks where they can see the benefits of my ideas and if successful it will be replicated in a much larger scale.

    So why have I written this? Because we are our own worst enemy when it comes to taking action, when someone does stand up they are quickly shot down as being in it only for the money.

    We use ideas that originate in nature as we believe that the cure for most of the problems created by man can be found in nature.
21. Selwyn 21

    9 September 2016 at 7:31 am

    New Zealand farmers are famous for growing grass. Replace dairy with hemp

Links to post

1. World Water Week « The Standard: posted on 1 September 2016 at 11:21 am
2. Congratulations Dr Smith!! | Frankly Speaking...: posted on 11 September 2016 at 8:02 am

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