Open mike 09/05/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 9th, 2013 - 228 comments
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228 comments on “Open mike 09/05/2013 ”

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  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1
    9 May 2013 at 6:31 am

    *
    Can our new Race Relations Commissioner find anything intelligent to say about this FRONT PAGE article quoting a “top criminologist”?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8649827/Maori-crime-fact-of-life

    Quote:

    “There are hardly any Maori in Dunedin and not many in Christchurch,” Prof Newbold said.

    “The more Maori you get in an area, the more violent crime you get – that’s a fact of life.”

    • Maui 1.1
      9 May 2013 at 6:40 am

      Well, they say prison is a great education ..

      • prism 1.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 5:38 pm

        This is what Susan Devoy could apply her fine mind to. (Just having a go at Greg Newbold doesn’t achieve anything – he’s a guy that often says things that upset people.)

        1 Wayne Rumbles makes the point that Maori are more likely to have serious charges, and I think they get taken to Court more often than pakeha for similar offences.
        2 Greg Newbold makes an obvious point about the bad reasoning behind three strikes.
        3 Mike Williams says it is expensive, and gives figures that show that spending has doubled on maximum security prisoners in a few years.

        **Waikato University faculty of law senior lecturer Wayne Rumbles said Prof Newbold’s comments were “partly right” but also an over-simplification.
        “Maori are more likely to be charged with offences, so there’s a bit of prosecutorial bias,” Mr Rumbles said.
        “It’s not that if you have got more Maori you get more violent crime necessarily, but you get higher charging of violent crime by the police.”…….

        ** Prof Newbold said he opposed the three strikes legislation because it took away a judge’s discretion. “It [three strikes law] is a Government vote of no confidence in the judiciary and Parole Board, that’s what it is.

        ** New Zealand Howard League for Penal Reform chief executive officer Mike Williams said the three strikes law was unproven at deterring crime and an “extremely expensive” crime fighting measure.
        It was a drain on taxpayers to lock offenders up for maximum terms, Mr Williams said.
        It was better to spend money on prisoners’ rehabilitation, and drug and alcohol treatments.

        Corrections Department figures obtained by the Waikato Times show the department spent $757.2 million in 2012/13 keeping 8625 criminals locked up. More than $13.4m was spent on 83 maximum security prisoners in 2011/12, compared with $4.03m in 2006/07.

        • prism 1.1.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 9:17 pm

          Marty Mars has something to say about the bias against Maori that keeps up the numbers in the justice records and prisons. The comment is in the space where the numbers run out –
          easiest directions are – in this thread 6 up from 1.3.2.2.3 Rogue Trooper.

    • Morrissey 1.2
      9 May 2013 at 7:03 am

      Is that hapless dumbcluck Newbold back on the coke?

      • North 1.2.1
        9 May 2013 at 7:20 am

        Poacher turned gamekeeper and all that…….

        • Tiger Mountain 1.2.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 9:11 am

          Greg was at same secondary school as me, always wondered how he could afford the latest new US model Dodge Charger, we found out soon enough.

          Has well worn out his ‘crim’ turned academic schtick.

      • Ennui 1.2.2
        9 May 2013 at 7:33 am

        I read the “story”, or lack there of. Newbold states fact only, no interpretation or reason why. He might as well have said elephants are grey or ducks float. Also true, but how and why are absent from these facts. Crap journalism to keep the ads from collapsing in on the page.

        • Murray Olsen 1.2.2.1
          9 May 2013 at 11:05 pm

          Newbold is supposedly a sociologist. Sociologists are supposed to explain facts. It’s possibly that not everything he said has been reported, but if so, it’s not the first time. He should hand his PhD back and get a position writing for a gossip mag if this is the best he can do.

    • BM 1.3
      9 May 2013 at 7:23 am

      Why?, it’s the facts.
      Don’t see any reason for the race relations commissioner to comment.

      • Morrissey 1.3.1
        9 May 2013 at 7:33 am

        Why?, it’s the facts.

        Here are a few actual facts:

        1.) You are way out of your depth.

        2.) You do not know what you are talking about.

        3.) I have yet to see a thoughtful or stimulating contribution from you on ANY topic on this site.

        4.) It would be a good idea for you to take a break from posting silly and shallow and ignorant remarks about things you know nothing about, and to begin a course of serious, sustained reading. Of books.

        5.) Off you go now.

        • Tim 1.3.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 8:36 am

          Indeed. He should get hold of a copy of “The Big Huey”.

          • Rogue Trooper 1.3.1.1.1
            9 May 2013 at 12:13 pm

            as long as he does not PILCH my mislaid first edition copy. (blame the C.U V.C, blame evry thing on him) 😉

            • Tim 1.3.1.1.1.1
              9 May 2013 at 3:02 pm

              Nor would he get near my copy. Strangely enough, I suspect Greg’s good intentions are clouded by an upbringing adjacent to a background of right wing politics, the “rent-a-quote” media environment we’re now in, sentimentality, friendships from those who’ve given him a break, and the sense of entitlement one often gets after perceiving they’ve ‘having paid their dues’ (the latter prevalent amongst various ‘honourable’ members of parliament).
              I understand the Sage MORA might be giving us some in depth analysis this arvo.

              I’m not trusting the msm interpretation of Greg’s comments just yet, though at this stage, they won’t be too far off.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.3.2
        9 May 2013 at 7:49 am

        Fact: there is no connection between ethnicity and criminality, but there is a strong connection between racism and right-wing political beliefs.

        • framu 1.3.2.1
          9 May 2013 at 7:58 am

          but that thing about reading peoples criminality (or other traits) from the shape of their heads is still valid right? 🙂

        • BM 1.3.2.2
          9 May 2013 at 8:01 am

          True.
          It’s not ethnicity that’s the problem, it’s Maori culture.
          There is a belief that white mans laws shouldn’t apply to Maori because it’s their land. They’re tangata whenua , we do what we want.

          Also the violence, who the toughest, who’s the best warrior,it’s a huge part of Maori culture.

          • Ugly Truth 1.3.2.2.1
            9 May 2013 at 8:04 am

            Problem is that white mans laws is sometimes a misnomer for fraud and dishonour.

            • Populuxe1 1.3.2.2.1.1
              9 May 2013 at 4:15 pm

              Trouble is that oppression of women and violence toward minorities is sometimes excused as cultural or religious imperitive.

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.3.2.2.2
            9 May 2013 at 8:28 am

            Yep, racism and right-wing politics go hand-in-hand. Thank you for making my point for me.

            • vto 1.3.2.2.2.1
              9 May 2013 at 8:35 am

              But what of BM’s question around the warrior aspect and the ‘staunch’ approach exhibited by so many? How does that feature fit into the violence stats? Genuine question.

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                9 May 2013 at 8:56 am

                What of it? Rotherham’s getting dog rough these days. Is that because of Maori culture too?

                Violence shows a strong relationship to economic inequality. I know you want to believe that Maori are subhuman but the facts just aren’t on your side. Sorry.

                • vto …
                  9 May 2013 at 9:01 am

                  fucks sake oak, pull the abuse. that is where violence begins.

                  there was nothing in my post claiming to agree with bm, you just made that up.

                  as i said it was a genuine question. but you just feed into the tired old “anyone questioning things maori is racist” crappola.

                  snafu

                  edit: here’s the question again so you can clearly understand it….. do the warrior and ‘staunch’ aspects of their culture feed into the violence stats? That’s all. Nothing else. No hidden agenda. Just a simple question. Can you handle it without diving into your kneejerk pinkneck pool of abuse?

                  • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                    9 May 2013 at 9:07 am

                    Ah, the connection between abuse and violence. Did I disrespecty-wecty you? Poor wickle vto.

                    “I have yet to see a serious act of violence that was not provoked by the experience of feeling shamed and humiliated, disrespected and ridiculed, and that did not represent the attempt to prevent or undo this “loss of face” – no matter how severe the punishment…” James Gilligan, prison psychiatrist.

                    Which goes quite a long way to explaining the link between inequality and violence. Ethnicity is irrelevant.

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:12 am

                      Yes I understand that and have experienced same and seen same many times. You are right that the treatment of others is what leads to this stuff mostly, sure. But the question was not around ethnicity it was around culture, which is for these purposes somewhat different.

                      Look, it is just a question that the “great white middle rump” of NZ always asks and I don;t think an answer has ever been clearly outlined for them. It is no wonder that the question eternally arises.

                      Never mind, carry on …….

                      edit: thanks for the link, will go through it

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:17 am

                      It’s very very simple. Violence shows a strong relationship with inequality.

                      Inequality ≠ culture.

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:28 am

                      Sure. So the warrior and staunch aspect play no part? Fine with that, if that is so. I guess a way to measure that may be to measure violence in their culture prior to their inequality position. (be an interesting comparison with violence in, say, britain, prior to colonisation, which was probably a hell of a lot worse)

                      The point applies in Chch exactly too. Most violent place at he moment. And because of the inequality (though of a different type – think no democracy, others have greater control over us, frustration at the lack of eqc action, etc)

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:37 am

                      Actually, don’t know if you’ve answered it all. Violence shows a strong relationship with inequality, sure. But is it really possible to say that violence shows no relationship with culture? I wouldn’t think so. PI peoples acknowledge themselves that they have a problem with violence and that wouldn’t seem to stem from inequality as the inequality aspect doesn’t exist (in their homeland). Poms also acknowledge they have a terrible problem with violence around their pub culture, and there aint much inequality there.

                      Don’t think the original question has been fully answered

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      9 May 2013 at 10:14 am

                      No inequality in the UK. And then you woke up.

                      Didn’t you register the (non-maori) “staunch” on display in the link I provided above? Or did you simply not read it? That seems more likely.

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 12:06 pm

                      dancing on that pinhead again oak. What don’t you get about equality within a pub culture? Or equality within various of PIs? It’s easier to just ignore inconvenient facts and go tangential isn’t it…

                      Such over-sensitivity to anything along these lines…. Happens all the time in our blinkered land.

                    • prism …
                      9 May 2013 at 2:32 pm

                      “shamed and humiliated, disrespected and ridiculed, ”
                      In family violence – how does this work? As the result of a woman or child or vulnerable person being smacked around would have them feeling all the words in quotes.

                      So does everyone in that situation have the low worth sickness, but the initiator of violence while carrying out the violence gets a short release from the bad feeling, although doubling the recipient’s already low self-worth.

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      9 May 2013 at 4:53 pm

                      equality within a pub culture?

                      What don’t you get about the fact that it is the equality within a society, not the pub, that counts?

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      9 May 2013 at 5:27 pm

                      Prism:

                      “shamed and humiliated, disrespected and ridiculed, ”
                      In family violence – how does this work?

                      I think the abuser’s feelings of shame and humiliation lead to an outpouring of bile upon who-ever is closest. Yes, humans are a bunch of cry-babies.

                  • weka …
                    9 May 2013 at 1:17 pm

                    “here’s the question again so you can clearly understand it….. do the warrior and ‘staunch’ aspects of their culture feed into the violence stats?”

                    Yes they do. Pakeha culture is based in the British culture of colonisation, that deemed itself superior to all other ‘races’. The British Empire used its warrior class to wipe out indigenous peoples, and where it could no longer do that (eg in Aotearoa), it employed other colonisation tactics to suppress Maori in as devastating way as possible. They (the British) were pretty staunch about that. That still exists within NZ culture today.

                    Prof Newbold said there was a “direct association” between Maori and violent offending.

                    Leaving aside whatever he means by ‘direct association’, he is actually wrong. There are correlations between poverty, colonisation, and institutional racism, and violent offending.

                    vto, you are asking if there is a connection between the warrior/staunch aspects of Maori cultures and violent offending. I don’t believe that that question can be satisfactorily answered until the effects of colonisation are taken into account (that’s why you and OAK are arguing).

                    Myself, I see many, many aspects within Maori cultures, that differ depending on what part of the country you are in. I know that there is a deep strain of concepts of peace and non-violence within Maoridom. I have great respect for their views and practices around social justice, and how they communicate and interrelate in places like on Marae (where their protocols promote more social cohesion than many mainstream Pakeha ones).

                    I am somewhat at a loss as to why you are focussing on this idea of Maoridom as having a warrior culture, without putting that into the context of those cultures as a whole.

                    • The Al1en …
                      9 May 2013 at 3:08 pm

                      In 1067, the year after the Norman conquest of England, only 8% of land remained in Anglo Saxon hands, the rest, stolen forever by the colonisers.

                      Fucking Norman bastards, Grrr.

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 4:31 pm

                      Yep good points. I was sort of referring to removal of the effects of colonisation in order to answer the question when I suggested measuring violence prior to their current inequality position (i.e. before colonisation).

                      On driving around in circles this afternoon mine pondering brain began to also wonder how OAK’s position (large relationship between violence and inequality, and no relationship between violence and culture) applies in communities where there is was no violence (apparently) such as Waitaha, Moriori and Easter Islanders (?).

                      Is that due to absolute equality between all, or is it due to their culture, or is it a bit of both? This is perhaps a good way to measure because it removes one of the parameters from the question and so highlighting the true position of one other parameter.

                      Mehinks it is a mix of both cultural and particular circumstances at the time (such as colonisation effects, inequality, etc)

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      9 May 2013 at 4:56 pm

                      Weta, the effects of colonisation affect the perceived level of equality, no doubt, but this observation isn’t based on something as ephemeral as perception – it’s based on the actual every day income inequality that exists in New Zealand.

                    • prism …
                      9 May 2013 at 5:54 pm

                      The Allen
                      I was looking up past Brit monarchs on wikipedia and they sure had a sticky time of it – trouble, trouble and always someone panting at the side waiting to grab your bone, or land as the case would most likely be. I think King John had to go and live in Britain because he mucked up in France or something. I was tired late at night and couldn’t take it all in.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      9 May 2013 at 6:03 pm

                      Cromwell and the Cold Streamers

                    • The Al1en …
                      9 May 2013 at 6:12 pm

                      “The Allen
                      I was looking up past Brit monarchs on wikipedia and they sure had a sticky time of it – trouble, trouble and always someone panting at the side waiting to grab your bone, or land as the case would most likely be. I think King John had to go and live in Britain because he mucked up in France or something. I was tired late at night and couldn’t take it all in.”

                      I’m ignorant, but wiki is a friend 😉

                      Check out the BBC (I think) history of Britain series. It’s been on Choice tv.
                      From stone age through industrial revolution back to stone age again.
                      Wish they’d have a happy ending, but with ukip on the rise, I don’t see it.
                      Just a matter of time now.

                    • marty mars …
                      9 May 2013 at 7:41 pm

                      a couple of observations

                      the statistics are bias because it is proven that the police target Māori, and apprehend and prosecute more Māori than other people – therefore the stats on violent crime cannot actually be trusted to tell anything other than the story that fits the agenda.

                      Māori have suffered more violence than any group in this country because they are indigenous. Since europeans first arrived here that violence was, and is, systematic, Government condoned and total.

                    • rosy …
                      9 May 2013 at 7:51 pm

                      vto,

                      Regarding criminality and culture – there’s an interesting conversation going on in the the Guardian at the moment around ‘white’ men’s culture of sexual violence against young people. Brit papers are full of scandal after scandal and earlier this year there was one about Muslim men preying on young girls, with the whole of Muslim culture being called into question. A couple of days ago a tongue-in-cheek article was written It’s time to face up to the problem of sexual abuse in the white community

                      after the shock has subsided and we have time to reflect on these revolting crimes, the main question in most reasonable people’s minds must surely be: what is it about white people that makes them do this?

                      Jimmy Savile is alleged to have abused 300 young people, and in his case and in north Wales, the abuse could not have happened without a wide range of co-conspirators either grooming children or ensuring the truth never got out. Hardly a week goes by without another white man being arrested in connection with sexual abuse.

                      I’m beginning to feel sorry for whites. I have many white friends and I know most of them are wholly opposed to sexual abuse. But they must be worried that their whole community is getting a bad name. I can imagine that, every day, with each unfolding case, they must be hiding their face behind their hands, pleading: “Please, God, don’t let it be a white person this time.”

                      And with so many senior community figures implicated, many of us are starting to wonder what will happen to the next generation of whites. How will today’s young whites learn that abuse is wrong when their role models are so tarnished?

                      It’s worth a read of the comments (although there are over 2,000 now) and following the links between articles – it’s hard for white UK having its culture called into question when abuse is rife and it’s interesting to see how people interpret the article.

                    • felix …
                      9 May 2013 at 8:25 pm

                      Cheers The Al1en, will check that out.

                      Found it here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEA1842A3A1561065

                    • weka …
                      9 May 2013 at 8:27 pm


                      Weta, the effects of colonisation affect the perceived level of equality, no doubt, but this observation isn’t based on something as ephemeral as perception – it’s based on the actual every day income inequality that exists in New Zealand.

                      OAK, not sure what that first bit is about (and I wasn’t talking about perception so not sure why you bring that up now in reply to me). About the last bit, sure, of course. But it’s not only about every day income inequality. It’s also about history (trauma and its effects don’t just disappear when you give people economic equality), politics, and culture. It’s not enough to afford Maori (or anyone) economic parity, they need the same degree of cultural sovereignty as the power holders afford themselves.

                    • weka …
                      9 May 2013 at 8:40 pm

                      I was sort of referring to removal of the effects of colonisation in order to answer the question when I suggested measuring violence prior to their current inequality position (i.e. before colonisation).

                      On driving around in circles this afternoon mine pondering brain began to also wonder how OAK’s position (large relationship between violence and inequality, and no relationship between violence and culture) applies in communities where there is was no violence (apparently) such as Waitaha, Moriori and Easter Islanders (?).

                      Is that due to absolute equality between all, or is it due to their culture, or is it a bit of both? This is perhaps a good way to measure because it removes one of the parameters from the question and so highlighting the true position of one other parameter.

                      Mehinks it is a mix of both cultural and particular circumstances at the time (such as colonisation effects, inequality, etc)

                      Hi vto, I’m still not quite getting where you are coming from. Are you trying to see if there is something within Maori culture that is inherently violent, and thus contributing to NZ’s violent crime stats (leaving aside issues of poverty and colonisation)?

                      I don’t really see the point of that line of inquiry. Most of us come from cultures that have violence. Are you suggesting that Maori have a marked degree of violence within their culture that they could change and thus reduce their representation in crime stats?

                      I’m not sure that Pakeha in NZ have the required knowledge or understanding of Maoritanga to be judging cultures like Waitaha compared to other, supposedly more violent Maori cultures. Most of what I have heard and seen around this has been steeped deeply in Pakeha constructs of violence and peace, as well as Pakeha needs around finding where they belong in relationship to Tangata Whenua (and for the most part that’s involved a narrative of the lovely Waitaha being subsumed by the nasty violent Maori, which fits perfectly with mainstream NZ racism’s need to undermine the concept of Tangata Whenua). In order to understand the situation I think you would need to immerse yourself in Te Ao Maori and look at it from the inside. And understand that within Maoridom there are different ways of viewing this.

                      I think the other problem with your line of thinking is that Pakeha knowledge about pre-colonisation Maori comes largely from the European world view, and is thus a distortion. Even where Maori have educated Pakeha about their history, there is still so much (in the media esp) that taints how we can understand our pasts. But really, if you look at what we do know and compare Maori to what Europeans were doing in the 1700s, the idea that we could consider Maori to be violent is completely missing the point.

                    • karol …
                      9 May 2013 at 8:49 pm

                      Hmmm. I have been looking into my family history. I have found one branch of the family include a long line of protestant Ireland military – then coming to NZ as “settlers” makes them kind of serial colonisers. Family stories tell of the first generation NZ born males being quite physically violent in their behaviour towards their children. Seems to have waned in subsequent generations.

                      Another family line – different side of the family, includes a line that goes back to the Norman occupation of England.

                      Knowing this, it’s a relief to know other family lines go back to solid working class Scots.

                      But, lots of physical violence in the culture of some of my Pakeha ancestral lines that came to settle in NZ a century or more ago.

                    • rosy …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:01 pm

                      “Knowing this, it’s a relief to know other family lines go back to solid working class Scots.”

                      One line of my family is good solid working class Scots as well, and the other is Irish, and in my experience both are as violent as hell (common garden domestic violence, so not a lot of addition to the criminal stats there). I’ve decided to look around me and to look forward for pride in family, not back (an exception, because it suits my own liberal leanings and is therefore inspiring, is for the protestant ancestor, from a poor background, who became a lawyer and defender of the United Irishmen ). The rest is just history and information.

                    • marty mars …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:16 pm

                      This is to vto

                      In regards to Waitaha and speaking as someone who has a whakapapa to Rākaihautū (as most if not all Ngāi Tahu do) the idea that somehow they are different to ‘other’ Māori is offensive. This notion is the brailsford bullshit. There are Iwi members who choose to highlight that strand/s of their whakapapa and that is totally correct but the brailsford lines and spin are simply a way for some pākehā to find some meaning in their lives by misappropriating history and indigenous rights.

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:19 pm

                      woops, didn’t notice these replies and am about to fly out of this mad world for the dreamy relaxation of sea and sky and isolation….

                      Weka, sometimes I seem to struggle to explain my point. Briefly, this began as a response to Newbold’s bald empty useless statement and the very issue that he raises which sits prominently in the minds of many NZers. Then it morphed into a curiousity around the correlation between a cultures features and its violence. There is no attempt to undermine any one group even though it may appear that way. You will have noticed I’m sure the interest I have in matters Maori and especially relations with them. That is all.

                      Regarding your points around Maori culture and trying to get a proper view of it yo are no doubt right. It would be important to look through their lenses, as it is any such assessment, although that must be tempered with the fact that violence is not really a subjective assessment but humanly objective. There is surely also little doubt that the Brit culture has been immersed in violence. Sheesh here in NZ, it aint that long ago when women were routinely touched up ad expected to keep quiet, young boys were thrashed for whatever reason, and we had the death penalty and corporal punishment. There is most definitely an aggression element in white culture (and aggression easily transforms to violence at times). It would not surprise me if that culture exhibited more violence, hence references to that in my posts.

                      I guess one of the points is that the constant cry that Maori violent crime stats are a result of colonisation etc would not seem to take into account any cultural aspects (such as the warrior and the ‘staunch’). That was the curiousity. How much is inherent? How much is externally caused?

                      Marty Mars makes fair points too but doesn’t address the question.

                      rosy, thanks for that. Again, no surprise but hard for a culture to acknowledge that it may have weak points and need to change its ways.

                      karol, yep same in that branch for us too.

                      At least, to find a silver lining, most cultures are acknowledging these things and moving to amend. Unfortunately such changes are often generational and so take time.

                      All we need to do is transfer these slow changes into government actions so we don’t get nations invading others and firing rockets at their neighbours ……………. but on that, as said at the start, off to dreamy land I go.

                    • vto …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:24 pm

                      Marty, noted on Waitaha. It is a particular curiousity and I have come across many with views strongly different to your own on it. Intention for a while has been to learn about them more but alas repairing earthquake shit has dominated of late. Dubious on the second half of your last sentence – some may well do so but not so in this corner.

                      maybe we swap some on this another time.

                    • weka …
                      10 May 2013 at 10:44 am

                      One line of my family is good solid working class Scots as well, and the other is Irish, and in my experience both are as violent as hell (common garden domestic violence, so not a lot of addition to the criminal stats there). I’ve decided to look around me and to look forward for pride in family, not back (an exception, because it suits my own liberal leanings and is therefore inspiring, is for the protestant ancestor, from a poor background, who became a lawyer and defender of the United Irishmen ). The rest is just history and information.

                      Ae, but remember rosy that your Irish and Scots people were colonised too, and suffering under terrible, multi-generational brutality.

                      I’d argue against the idea that violence within a culture (or family) negates the virtue or value of those people and their culture.

                    • weka …
                      10 May 2013 at 10:53 am

                      I guess one of the points is that the constant cry that Maori violent crime stats are a result of colonisation etc would not seem to take into account any cultural aspects (such as the warrior and the ‘staunch’). That was the curiousity. How much is inherent? How much is externally caused?

                      vto, those questions have been answered well in this thread. Why are you not seeing that?

                      Your use of the term ‘constant cry’ makes me raise my eyebrows. If you accept that colonisation, poverty and institutional racism directly impact on Maori and account for the disproportionate ratios re crime stats, then it’s fine to talk about it wherever and whenever because we are not solving this problem. In that context I find your approach a bit offensive. If you don’t accept that colonisation, poverty and institutional racism directly impact on Maori and account for the disproportionate ratios re crime stats, then I’d like to know what you base that disbelief on.

                      You say you are not singling out Maori, but if you cannot discuss this issue in the context of the violence of the dominant culture, then you are making this about Maori.

                      How much is inherent? How much is externally caused?

                      Why does that even matter? Arohamai, but it comes across as an agenda to make Maori share the responsibility for solving these problems (as if they weren’t already taking more than their fair share of responsibility).

                    • rosy …
                      10 May 2013 at 7:33 pm

                      “your Irish and Scots people were colonised too, and suffering under terrible, multi-generational brutality.”

                      Yes, you’re right weka. A reason they emigrated in the first place – a land for building a better world (forgetting the people already there, mind). I guess I just don’t like that whole cultures are being implicated as inherently violent or inherently whatever negative stereotype can be thought up (e.g. Irish jokes, Scots misers, violent Maori). It’s all too mono-dimensional and reeks of judgement from the dominant culture.

                      “I’d argue against the idea that violence within a culture (or family) negates the virtue or value of those people and their culture”

                      I’d argue that too, if I knew how – you’re very good at this – there’s just not a lot of point in looking back to find the virtuous for self-affirmation, so few people are purely one thing or another. With regard to my family, I’d be crushed by looking at the negative, or overly arrogant by aligning with who I think were the righteous, if I didn’t try to put who they were and some things they did into a greater context instead of judging their choices in isolation.

          • Rogue Trooper 1.3.2.2.3
            9 May 2013 at 12:18 pm

            “the majority of pakeha are terrified that the govt. will acknowledge te tiriti and they will become slaves.”
            -Ranginui Walker, Te Tepu, 8.5.13

          • Murray Olsen 1.3.2.2.4
            9 May 2013 at 11:24 pm

            Funny how white men violently dispossessed and destroyed native cultures all over the world, when whitey would rather sit around reciting poetry and the natives are all savages.
            Now run along, take your shoes off and play “This little piggy” with yourself, Bloody Moron.

    • Lanthanide 1.4
      9 May 2013 at 7:54 am

      And yet Christchurch is apparently one of the most violent cities in the country? Or at least that’s what the media was crowing about last year at some point, with their short attention spans.

      • BM 1.4.1
        9 May 2013 at 8:06 am

        Having a few prisons in close proximity, probably doesn’t help.

        • Colonial Viper 1.4.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 10:55 am

          Indeed. The more people you imprison, the more violence you eventually create.

      • vto 1.4.2
        9 May 2013 at 8:33 am

        Yep that’s right. Good old whitey Christchurch, violent and angry, pissed of and frustrated, quick to temper and too quick to fist.

        White Christchurch is the most violent.

        Newbold’s statement is just a dumb empty round nothing. Might as well say where you get the greatest concentration of white businessmen you get the most fraudsters who rip off the most New Zealanders, it’s as simple as that.

        dumbo is as dumbo does

        • Rogue Trooper 1.4.2.1
          9 May 2013 at 12:21 pm

          from Campbell Live on families living in damp, damaged houses;
          -children visited Dr on 51 occasions over 52 weeks
          -power bills of 400 / month

    • aerobubble 1.5
      9 May 2013 at 5:04 pm

      There’s lots of Maori in Northland ill-served by govt and so eventually the govt had to give into pressure and let Northland grow by having a new road built. Only problem is its a toll road and so serves those that can afford it. But then that’s how you help National heartland by increasing regressive policies on the poorer regions. What was GST hikes, people who spend less of their money on basics, save, invest instead are not as burdened. And geez what about the extra cost on the poorest who now find themselves paying more after the first 14,000…

      Nationals policies of peeing in the lifeboat like the Titanic cannot sink.

  2. The Al1en 2
    9 May 2013 at 6:35 am

    PM’s gift list revealed: Karaoke, meatpacks and a ceramic fish

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10882414

    “Internal Affairs Minister and MP for Napier Chris Tremain owned 16 properties including a house in Napier, a family bach in Waipatiki and 14 investment properties across Napier, Hastings and Palmerston North.
    He also owned four pieces of land in Waipatiki and Napier”

    No wonder you don’t want a CGT on investment properties, you fucking leech.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      9 May 2013 at 9:20 am

      And look at the slant:

      First-home buyers are in the firing line as the Reserve Bank aims its first direct shot at the overvalued housing market.

      They can expect to face higher interest rates if they want to borrow more than about 80 per cent of a home’s value, under new moves revealed yesterday. That could push up the interest rate on a floating mortgage from about 5.85 per cent to about 6 per cent.

      It’s all the governments fault.

      Look at who’s complaining about it:

      One banking expert has called the moves a “slap in the face” for first-time buyers. Some property investors and small businesses may also find it harder to get a big loan from a bank.

      And no mention of the fact that it was private debt of “high loan to value ratio” on houses that was a major cause of the GFC.

  4. Morrissey 4
    9 May 2013 at 7:15 am

    The Death of Truth
    by CHRIS HEDGES
    This interview is a joint project of Truthdig and The Nation magazine.

    LONDON—A tiny tip of the vast subterranean network of governmental and intelligence agencies from around the world dedicated to destroying WikiLeaks and arresting its founder, Julian Assange, appears outside the red-brick building on Hans Crescent Street that houses the Ecuadorean Embassy. Assange, the world’s best-known political refugee, has been in the embassy since he was offered sanctuary there last June. British police in black Kevlar vests are perched night and day on the steps leading up to the building, and others wait in the lobby directly in front of the embassy door. An officer stands on the corner of a side street facing the iconic department store Harrods, half a block away on Brompton Road. Another officer peers out the window of a neighboring building a few feet from Assange’s bedroom at the back of the embassy. Police sit round-the-clock in a communications van topped with an array of antennas that presumably captures all electronic forms of communication from Assange’s ground-floor suite.

    The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS), or Scotland Yard, said the estimated cost of surrounding the Ecuadorean Embassy from June 19, 2012, when Assange entered the building, until Jan. 31, 2013, is the equivalent of $4.5 million.

    Britain has rejected an Ecuadorean request that Assange be granted safe passage to an airport. He is in limbo. It is, he said, like living in a “space station.”

    “The status quo, for them, is a loss,” Assange said of the U.S.-led campaign against him as we sat in his small workroom, cluttered with cables and computer equipment. He had a full head of gray hair and gray stubble on his face and was wearing a traditional white embroidered Ecuadorean shirt. “The Pentagon threatened WikiLeaks and me personally, threatened us before the whole world, demanded that we destroy everything we had published, demanded we cease ‘soliciting’ new information from U.S. government whistle-blowers, demanded, in other words, the total annihilation of a publisher. It stated that if we did not self-destruct in this way that we would be ‘compelled’ to do so.”

    “But they have failed,” he went on. “They set the rules about what a win was. They lost in every battle they defined. Their loss is total. We’ve won the big stuff. The loss of face is hard to overstate. The Pentagon reissued its threats on Sept. 28 last year. This time we laughed. Threats inflate quickly. Now the Pentagon, the White House and the State Department intend to show the world what vindictive losers they are through the persecution of Bradley Manning, myself and the organization more generally.”

    Assange, Manning and WikiLeaks, by making public in 2010 half a million internal documents from the Pentagon and the State Department, along with the 2007 video of U.S. helicopter pilots nonchalantly gunning down Iraqi civilians, including children, and two Reuters journalists, effectively exposed the empire’s hypocrisy, indiscriminate violence and its use of torture, lies, bribery and crude tactics of intimidation. WikiLeaks shone a spotlight into the inner workings of empire—the most important role of a press—and for this it has become empire’s prey. Those around the globe with the computer skills to search out the secrets of empire are now those whom empire fears most. If we lose this battle, if these rebels are defeated, it means the dark night of corporate totalitarianism. If we win, if the corporate state is unmasked, it can be destroyed.

    U.S. government officials quoted in Australian diplomatic cables obtained by the Saturday Age described the campaign against Assange and WikiLeaks as “unprecedented both in its scale and nature.” The scope of the operation has also been gleaned from statements made during Manning’s pretrial hearing. The U.S. Department of Justice will apparently pay the contractor ManTech of Fairfax, Va., more than $2 million this year alone for a computer system that, from the tender, appears designed to handle the prosecution documents. The government line item refers only to “WikiLeaks Software and Hardware Maintenance.”

    The lead government prosecutor in the Manning case, Maj. Ashden Fein, has told the court that the FBI file that deals with the leak of government documents through WikiLeaks has “42,135 pages or 3,475 documents.” This does not include a huge volume of material accumulated by a grand jury investigation. Manning, Fein has said, represents only 8,741 pages or 636 different documents in that classified FBI file.

    There are no divisions among government departments or the two major political parties over what should be Assange’s fate. “I think we should be clear here. WikiLeaks and people that disseminate information to people like this are criminals, first and foremost,” then-press secretary Robert Gibbs, speaking for the Obama administration, said during a 2010 press briefing.

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat, and then-Sen. Christopher S. Bond, a Republican, said in a joint letter to the U.S. attorney general calling for Assange’s prosecution: “If Mr. Assange and his possible accomplices cannot be charged under the Espionage Act (or any other applicable statute), please know that we stand ready and willing to support your efforts to ‘close those gaps’ in the law, as you also mentioned. …”

    Republican Candice S. Miller, a U.S. representative from Michigan, said in the House: “It is time that the Obama administration treats WikiLeaks for what it is—a terrorist organization, whose continued operation threatens our security. Shut it down. Shut it down. It is time to shut down this terrorist, this terrorist Web site, WikiLeaks. Shut it down, Attorney General [Eric] Holder.”

    At least a dozen American governmental agencies, including the Pentagon, the FBI, the Army’s Criminal Investigative Department, the Department of Justice, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the Diplomatic Security Service, are assigned to the WikiLeaks case, while the CIA and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence are assigned to track down WikiLeaks’ supposed breaches of security. The global assault—which saw Australia threaten to revoke Assange’s passport—is part of the terrifying metamorphosis of the “war on terror” into a wider war on civil liberties. It has become a hunt not for actual terrorists but a hunt for all those with the ability to expose the mounting crimes of the power elite.

    The dragnet has swept up any person or organization that fits the profile of those with the technical skills and inclination to burrow into the archives of power and disseminate it to the public. It no longer matters if they have committed a crime. The group Anonymous, which has mounted cyberattacks on government agencies at the local and federal levels, saw Barrett Brown—a journalist associated with Anonymous and who specializes in military and intelligence contractors—arrested along with Jeremy Hammond, a political activist alleged to have provided WikiLeaks with 5.5 million emails between the security firm Strategic Forecasting (Stratfor) and its clients. Brown and Hammond were apparently seized because of allegations made by an informant named Hector Xavier Monsegur—known as Sabu—who appears to have attempted to entrap WikiLeaks while under FBI supervision.

    Read more….
    http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/the_death_of_truth_20130505/

    • Te Reo Putake 4.1
      9 May 2013 at 7:40 am

      Crikey! I’d forgotten all about Saint Julian, thanks for reminding us that he is still avoiding facing his accusers. Justice For Assange Now!

      • Ennui 4.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 7:52 am

        Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.

        • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 8:09 am

          Tell that to Assange. He doesn’t seem to believe it to be true or else he’d already have crawled out of his hole.

          • Ennui 4.1.1.1.1
            9 May 2013 at 8:40 am

            Disingenuous bollocks. I got roundly harangued by idiots like yourself last time the Assange issue came up. I merely mentioned something dear to my heart when it comes to justice..innocent until proven guilty. I neither know nor care if Assange is guilty. I care greatly that every accused person gets a fair trial with the onus being on the accuser to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt.

            You seem to have decided already CommissarTRP.

            • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1.1.1.1
              9 May 2013 at 8:57 am

              Not at all, Ennui. Like you I want him to have a fair trial, and the sooner the better. The only person stopping that, and weakening the presumption of innocence in this particular case, is Julian Assange. Like it or not, the presumption of innocence has been damaged by Assange himself. Running and hiding is not a good look for the genuinely innocent.

              • Colonial Viper …
                9 May 2013 at 10:45 am

                Oh fuck off.

                What kind of “fair trial” for rape in Sweden are you dreaming of. Is it a trial where Assange can be whisked away at any hour to Guantanamo Bay, maybe before he makes it in front of the court?

                Maybe the Swedish authorities can start by charging Assange with something? Anything? If there are no charges then your concepts around a fair criminal trial are quite meaningless.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  9 May 2013 at 11:27 am

                  Step away from the hash pipe, CV. It’s a trial in Sweden, a modern, progressive state with a properly functioning judicial system. And no extradition in potential death sentence cases.

                  So, in summary, Assange is a coward. It’s a rum state of affairs when John Banks has more spine than your hero.

                  • McFlock …
                    9 May 2013 at 1:51 pm

                    TRP, you know that the burden of proof only rests on those who assert things about Assange, not on those who assert things about his accusers.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    9 May 2013 at 4:57 pm

                    So TRP, you want Assange to have his day in court, remind me what criminal charges have been filed against him?

                    And no extradition in potential death sentence cases.

                    No death sentences are carried out at Guantanamo Bay.

                • Populuxe1 …
                  9 May 2013 at 4:01 pm

                  From Sweden. One of those wonderfully progressive, socially just Scandinavian countries you frequently idealise as a model for virtue, no?

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    9 May 2013 at 5:13 pm

                    yeah except for the couple of extraordinary renditions to torture countries they carried out a few years back.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 May 2013 at 5:24 pm

                      The renditions 2 or 3 months after 9/11?
                      The renditions that ended up being declared illegal by the Swedish judicial system, thus reaffirming both the rule of law and judicial independence in Sweden?

                      As opposed to the many renditions that Britain has been party to, and yet Assange left Sweden for Britain?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      9 May 2013 at 6:27 pm

                      Oh I forget, did the Swedish authorities request or require Assange not to leave their country after his visit?

                    • McFlock …
                      9 May 2013 at 6:37 pm

                      Nope. His departure just hours after his lawyer was told an arrest was likely was no doubt a complete coincidence.

                      But they sure as shit asked him to come back. And he felt safer staying in the UK.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      9 May 2013 at 6:48 pm

                      Nope. His departure just hours after his lawyer was told an arrest was likely was no doubt a complete coincidence.

                      His lawyer was told an arrest was likely within hours? And that was roughly 3 years ago? So where are the charges?

                      And it’s just as well Assange didn’t stay in Sweden. The authorities rescinded that arrest warrant.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 May 2013 at 7:04 pm

                      still playing dumb on that one, are you?

                      Well, whatever. The British legal system went through it exhaustively and disagreed. Which is why assange is living in an embassy.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      9 May 2013 at 7:06 pm

                      almost 3 years and still no criminal charges forthcoming from the Swedish authorities McFlock?

                    • McFlock …
                      9 May 2013 at 7:24 pm

                      We’ve been here before, too.
                      paragraph 153 is helpful for folk who might not think you’re recycling old arguments in the hope that people don’t have google this time.

                      If that’s too long for you to understand, try this summary. The bit that sums you up is

                      Bottom line: Assange has been formally accused of a crime, and a warrant issued for his arrest, by a legal system which is widely recognized to meet international standards of due process. “Hasn’t even been charged” is an attempt to fog the issue – one of many you’ll get from his legions of fans on the Internet.

                    • Ennui …
                      9 May 2013 at 8:31 pm

                      McFlock, we may all link whore. The judgements you gave have the merit of stating a case against Assange. Yes, it sounds as if there are accusations and questionable behavior and circumstances all round: proof does not seem any more evident than “he said she said” (actually so far “she said”). To decide that does require a trial and I neither know nor care who would “win”.

                      A secondary issue, Assange according to your link (point 1) left Sweden unaware of any arrest warrant. That does not equate to flee. He does however have reason to fear his enemies if he does return…..http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/24/new-statesman-error-assange-swedish-extradition Quite clearly it is not clear that the Swedish courts can protect him from rendition despite the noise from British courts to the contrary. In his place what would you do?

                    • McFlock …
                      9 May 2013 at 9:05 pm

                      Quite clearly it is not clear that the Swedish courts can protect him from rendition despite the noise from British courts to the contrary. In his place what would you do?

                      Well, my first inclination would be to hang my head in shame at the lies my supporters use to justify my refusal to face trial.

                      The argument in your linked article is that the government can extradite someone if the courts find no impediment to the extradition. This is exactly the situation we have with Kim Dot Com – the govt wants to extradite, he’s arguing that it’s illegal.

                      Your article says that Swedish law says that if there is no legal reason to stop someone’s extradition, then the government can choose whether or not to extradite them. I think you’ll find that “extradition to country that tortures” is a legal impediment to extradition – which is why the Swedes breached process in the post-9/11 example CV alluded to before. And they got their arse kicked for it by the courts. And Assange is protected by his own celebrity status, as he has already demonstrated when he fled to the embassy.

                      Quite frankly, if I truly believed in my cause, I hope I’d have the moral courage to face the courts.

                    • Ennui …
                      10 May 2013 at 6:00 am

                      Maybe McFlock: myself I don’t know, rendition torture Guantanamo would stretch my moral courage.

                      As it is Assange by allowing himself the danger littered rock star groupie relationships has performed an epic credibility demolition on himself. His rendition would help the cause of the “land of the free” far less.

                    • McFlock …
                      10 May 2013 at 12:47 pm

                      If he were genuinely afraid of rendition, my suspicion is that he would feel safer in Sweden than in the UK.

                      It’s not like he went to France, or even headed straight to Ecuador.

              • Professor Longhair …
                9 May 2013 at 11:24 am

                “Like you I want him to have a fair trial, and the sooner the better.”

                Your statement is nonsense: cynical nonsense. You have, foolishly, retweeted government propaganda on this matter from the very beginning. You have painted yourself into a rhetorical corner; it will be interesting to see if you have the integrity and the moral courage to retreat from your utterly discredited position.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  9 May 2013 at 11:31 am

                  Stick to blowing that sweet southern jazz, Prof, you’re not making any sense.

                  • Professor Longhair …
                    9 May 2013 at 11:42 am

                    “Stick to blowing that sweet southern jazz, Prof, you’re not making any sense.”

                    I made perfect sense, and you know it. Your flippant response provides an unwittingly elegant answer to the question I posed.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      9 May 2013 at 11:50 am

                      Flippant? It was well considered, educated and witty. And you know it.

                    • Professor Longhair …
                      9 May 2013 at 11:59 am

                      Flippant? It was well considered, educated and witty. And you know it.

                      As these things go, it wasn’t too bad, we have to grant you that. In other words, mon ami: touché!

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      9 May 2013 at 12:16 pm

                      Merci, Prof. Kind of you to say.

                • Tim …
                  10 May 2013 at 2:14 pm

                  EEEEE by gooom! The answer loise in the soil!. When will common sense prevail?

                  Long after my death I’m sure – and not before many more protesters, challengers, questioners, cynics (dirty word), defenders of the most basic concept of democracy (not a dirty word – but one inreasingly MISUSED), awakening ‘Sleepy Hobbits’, 99%ers (and those currently jostling for a position within the remaining 1%), Labour Pity [sic.] careerists, wannabe ‘in-depth journalists’ with tidy little incomes sufficient to buy their daily bottle of Keb Sev, Garners/E-Spinners/gorgeous darling Mora’s/dem dats paid their dues{in their own mids}/ well Round-ed right wing ekky-deem-ya from EQC-trodden Canty/ Fat-Boy Slim KemSlators/well-Spun Doctors/nicest ever accomplices of the World on Missions to Mars who won’t shit too hard on the journey(so dearest nicest Jum doesn’t have to clen up the mess): them there folk…… when they finally get their shit together and realise there isn’t ekshly an APP for it. Maybe then.

                  Pardon the intrusion folks – its just that there’s a background Mora on Natrad providing some distracting very-White Noise that’s corrupted a usually functional mind)

            • prism 4.1.1.1.1.2
              9 May 2013 at 2:23 pm

              I’m just waiting to see if my last comment is still floating somewhere as a group of electrical impulses that will be attracted to the thread and land in the right place. Perhaps if I believe that it is it will flash up in a burst of light like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan, when all the children of the world shouted I Believe in you.

              This is the second time in last week that I have pressed submit comment and found a page that says check your URL (perhaps my zip wasn’t done up). I can’t remember what else it said – it’s a shock to see well-rounded phrases just busted off the surface of my computer.

              • prism …
                9 May 2013 at 2:34 pm

                I thought I would wait and check, but my comment was lost when I pressed submit – and wasn’t carried back to the thread but sent to outer field.

                [lprent: I can’t see it anywhere. Vagaries of net and browser I’m afraid. ]

                • prism …
                  9 May 2013 at 5:59 pm

                  Thanks for looking lprent. I might have to write offline and then copy and paste – it just seems a waste otherwise.

                  • lprent …
                    9 May 2013 at 6:10 pm

                    The back arrow is your friend. If I get a fail on save (as sometimes happens), I back-arrow to the page I just came from – which should show what you were posting.

                    Then I usually duplicate the tab and press refresh on the duplicate (which allows me to find out if I can “see” the site). When I can see it I jump back to the original tab and press the send.

                    Tabs in a browser are your friend. At least they are in Chrome (Linux, iOS, and Android), Firefox (Linux), and Safari (iOS). These are the browsers I use daily.

                    A bigger hassle is when I’m daft enough to press Esc whilst editing a comment and it aborts my comment. Fortunately there is a bug in the chrome javascript and pressing reply usually gets it back….. 🙂

            • Populuxe1 4.1.1.1.1.3
              9 May 2013 at 3:59 pm

              I’m not sure that applies when the party in question goes out of their way to avoid the “until proven guilty” bit.

    • Ugly Truth 4.2
      9 May 2013 at 8:13 am

      Wikileaks, like Wikipedia, is a form of cognitive infiltration. Both have a positive bias towards the UK/USA/Zionist empire.

      http://www.examiner.com/article/jimmy-wales-contradicts-the-rest-of-the-internet

  5. Morrissey 5
    9 May 2013 at 7:27 am

    A Palestinian child attempted suicide in an Israeli jail
    http://intifadajournal.com/2012/a-palestinian-child-attempted-suicide-in-an-israeli-jail/

    Human rights lawyer Heba Masaleha said one of the Palestinian children detained in an Israeli jail tried to commit suicide as a result of the severe depression he suffers from because of his exposure to maltreatment at the hands of jailers.

    Masaleha refrained from mentioning the name of the child, but she said she visited him in jail.

    She stated that the child has been staying in bed for three days without moving or talking to anyone, except about his intention to commit suicide, adding that the child cannot sleep properly at night and already refused to eat food for two days.

    She affirmed that the prison doctor said the child suffered from a psychological problem, adding that the prison administration also brought an Arab doctor from Nazareth to oversee him without any noticeable improvement in his condition.

    Aside from their exposure to abuse and humiliation at the hands of Israeli soldiers and jailers, the mere separation of the Palestinian minors and children from their parents and families causes them to suffer psychologically, the lawyer warned.

    In another incident, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) kidnapped a group of Palestinian minors working as a drum band without any reason, according to Bayarek center for prisoners’ affairs on Sunday.

    The center said that the children were on their way to a Palestinian folkloric festival that was held in the West Bank in solidarity with prisoner Samer Issawi, who ended his months-long hunger strike recently after a deal with his jailers.

    The center underlined that the Israeli occupation regime deliberately kidnap Palestinian children to break their spirits in violation of the international law, which stipulates the need for protecting the children and their right to grow safely without any restrictions on their freedom.

    It noted that there are about 321 children, 30 of them patients, in Israeli jails.

    Got a spare two and a half minutes? I urge you to watch this….

    • North 5.1
      9 May 2013 at 8:10 pm

      Thanks for that link Morrissey.

      Puts me in mind of an interview a few years ago with a Wellington accountant in Israel (Palestine), exercising his right of return. It was conducted by a TV One journalist (Mark Chrysal I think) in the returnee’s car. If anyone can find the link please provide it.

      As they drove alongside a huge 6 metre concrete wall this man in his 60s, this fine Wellington accountant, sought to justify the wall on the score that “They throw stones at us…….whine whine whine.”

      Swine swine swine ! Utterly sick-making.

      • Morrissey 5.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 8:20 pm

        I saw that programme too, North. I remember that Wellington man, and the flinty-hearted contempt he expressed for the people whose houses were being demolished. His attitude was scoffing and dismissive. It was clear that Mark Crysell was appalled by him as well.

        Crysell is clearly sympathetic to the Palestinians; however, his job as a TV1 reporter has placed him in some very compromised, even indefensible, positions. Here’s a picture of him smiling along with some Israelis who are watching, in perfect safety, the ghoulish sport of mass murder in Gaza. Apologies for the crass and dishonest caption, but the photograph speaks for itself…
        http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/HKNaGJpeKlt/Israelis+Flock+Vantage+Point+View+Gaza+Fighting/7MGWXuF_8nq/Nofar+Kimchi

        • North 5.1.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 10:22 pm

          Yeah, it’s “sport”. I recall seeing Crysell (thanks for name spell correction) filmed on a nearby hilltop as the jets zoomed over Gaza in the 6 week long “Shooting Fish In A Barrel” exercise December/January some years ago.

          Huge explosions and dead childrens’ limbs flying 100 metres into the air. Metres away two ugly, weirdly bearded, weirdly black coated, weird hatted frieks, hands clasped, doing a mad round and round jig with each explosion. Just going off they were. Delightedly screeching their vile heads off.

          Chrysell pointed them out with obvious disgust. His face said it all as he commented – “Obscene really……” I confess I felt homicidal against them. Can’t recall if David Schwarzenstein of the local “Poor Oppressed Us Society” came out with his usual snivelling about “lack of balance”, or not.

          Probably did. There’s nothing as cruelly blind as fascist Zionist exceptionalism.

  6. mickysavage 6
    9 May 2013 at 7:57 am

    Looks like Farrar may be polling on behalf of Williamson for a tilt at the Auckland mayoralty. Someone was polled by Curia and has posted about the interview. This is from a comment posted at Publicaddress.net

    “Asked me how I rated on a 1-5 scale John Key, David Shearer, Len Brown, Maurice Williamson…

    Did I think NZ was headed in right or wrong direction.

    Asked who I’d vote for today if a national election was held, and who I voted for last time.

    Asked if I thought housing affordability was a major, moderate or non-issue.

    Asked if housing affordability was due to land shortage, high compliancing/legal costs, or property developers profiteering…

    Asked if Auck Council or NZ Govt were able to improve housing affordability. (I said 50/50).

    Asked about expanding metropolitan limit, and increasing housing density in local centres.

    Asked whether I thought CRL was very important, somewhat important, nice to have but not at expense of roading projects, or not needed at all.

    Asked whether Puhoi-Welsford motorway extension was very important, somewhat important, nice to have but not at expense of rail projects or not needed at all

    Asked about how transport improvements (of whatever type) should be funded, vis local fuel tax, local rates, national fuel tax or central govt taxes.

    Asked how above funds, once raised should be split rail vs roads. (I went for 70% rail-30% roads- I haven’t read about whats required so I pulled that from my ass 🙂

    Asked if knowing a council candidate was on a Citizens & Ratepayers (or whatever they’ve changed C&R to stand for now?) ticket would make me more or less likely to vote for them. No other council tickets were mentioned or asked about.

    There may have been a few more questions on the same subjects, but it was pretty narrowly focused on getting an aucklander’s view on the major auckland issues, and how to pay for them, and does Maurice Williamson have a show… :)”

    The comment is at http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-competing-for-auckland/?p=285857#post285857

  7. Ugly Truth 7
    9 May 2013 at 8:16 am

    CIA Official Breaks Silence on Extraterrestrials

    The 15 minute prerecorded video of an anonymous former senior CIA officer was broadcast May 3 on the final day of the week long Citizen Hearing on Disclosure. The 77-year-old man, though he was articulate, and sitting up as he spoke, was obviously in a poor state of health. He worked for the CIA under President Dwight Eisenhower in 1958 and had chosen to break his long-held silence as he approached the end of his life.

    Organizer of the Citizen Hearing, Steve Bassett, introduced the video saying it offered an insight into the suffering of many military and government officials who are forced to live a world of secrecy and fear in what he calls the “truth embargo” about extraterrestrial encounters.

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/39890-cia-official-breaks-silence-on-extraterrestrials/

  8. vto 8
    9 May 2013 at 8:44 am

    earthquake observation #321:

    30 months for blood pressures to ease again.

  9. veutoviper 9
    9 May 2013 at 9:59 am

    The Gilmore saga continues… what will today bring?

    Laugh of the morning, thanks to Andrea Vance’s latest on Stuff

    “Television producer Claudette Hauiti was next on the list.

    Last night she could not confirm if she was still a party member.

    “I need to go away and check and find out.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8649811/Aaron-Gilmore-gets-the-message-Go-now

    • mickysavage 9.1
      9 May 2013 at 10:05 am

      Interesting that the planned big exposure promised by Hooten and Slater et al has not happened yet. I wonder if as part of the behind the scenes discussion with Aaron this is being mentioned as part of a negotiation? I can imagine someone saying to poor Aaron, “just resign quietly and all this will go away …”

      • veutoviper 9.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 10:15 am

        I have no doubts that there is a lot of behind the scenes discussion going on. Perhaps Gilmore is digging his toes in and refusing to go – this would align with his personality type IMHO on the basis of the little I have seen of it through this messy saga.

        Vance’s article also mentions:
        “Questions were building about how much senior ministers knew about his behaviour before his return to Parliament two months ago. It was understood there was a further lewd text message from Gilmore.”

        A pity that National cannot practice what they preach and apply the 90 day rule. A rough calculation based on the date of the announcement of Gilmore’s coming back to Parliament (Feb 16 or thereabouts) means that he has been back for less than 90 days.

        But Gilmore staying on as an independent as a festering boil for National would be so much more fun.

        • Mary 9.1.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 2:53 pm

          Gilmore’s at work today, apparently “in a show of defiance”.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8649811/Defiant-Aaron-Gilmore-turns-up-in-House

          This is fantastic stuff. If Key doesn’t watch it Gilmore will quit the party and stay on as am independent. This must surely be the last thing Key wants but the way he’s publicly chastising Gilmore this is precisely where things are heading. Purely magnificent.

          • veutoviper 9.1.1.1.1
            9 May 2013 at 3:09 pm

            LOL. It does seem that Gilmore may be digging his toes in. The start of Question Time today is worth watching for Mallard’s remarks about Gilmore – but even more for the look of disbelief on Louise Upston’s face when she realised that Gilmore was there. Link below.

            It looks as if Upston was almost going to get up and go over to him, but then decided not to.

            Have not seen any TV pictures of Gilmore so far. According to the House seating plan, his seat is right at the back of the House, behind Meteria Turei and Gareth Hughes.

            http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/18428

            • veutoviper 9.1.1.1.1.1
              9 May 2013 at 3:23 pm

              Update

              Stuff are now running a Breaking News banner that Gilmore won’t resign with more news soon.

              • Mary …
                9 May 2013 at 3:46 pm

                It’d be good if the Nats could find some way of fast-tracking Gilmore’s sacking so he can hurry up and start being an independent.

                • Rhinocrates …
                  9 May 2013 at 7:01 pm

                  Oh no, I’d be delighted if he stayed within the fold of the Nats, like a persistent smell in a stalled lift. This time though, everyone knows who did it.

                  • Mary …
                    10 May 2013 at 1:00 am

                    Yes, there is that, but I’d like to see Gilmore as an independent giving the finger to the party he’d regards as having shafted him. Even if he managed to do that for a while at the very least he could help scupper a few nasty bills coming up like the GCSB bill and a couple of others.

            • yeshe 9.1.1.1.1.2
              9 May 2013 at 4:14 pm

              he was sitting just next to Jackie Blue, certainly not in the very back row … seemed quite at home and comfortable … in shot when Jackie Blue was asking a question .. or was it answering, I forget it was so not worth remembering !!!

              Edit: Here he is …

              http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/18436

              • freedom …
                9 May 2013 at 7:49 pm

                memorable only for the extreme lack of control our Speaker has over the House

  10. prism 10
    9 May 2013 at 10:00 am

    Wellington buses have been pulled off the road for having regulatory deficiencies under possible new regulations. The police stopped hundreds of taxis last week. This on 9toNoon just before.

    ‘It is fair to say that the police have no concerns for passenger safety.’ Yet they are prepared to pull off buses and leave passengers waiting with no knowledge of how they can travel and they will be late for their important private destinations. As if life isn’t hard enough at the present. Police want passengers to think they are better to be left without transport, than have safety problems, yet early on the police spokesman said that there weren’t safety problems.

    This concentration in particular regulation following in everyday society and the meeting of ‘best practice’ regulations that are not essential for immediate attention, is in contrast to the lax regulations not being applied in dangerous businesses as in forestry and mining. The police are again concerned about safety in these circumstances, but it is their own safety when bad events mean they gain control.

    For goodness sake the police are becoming a burden on society instead of a help. (Thinking police checks not only for over drinking but also checking on computer to see if the person stopped has any other notification against their name.) The amount of police involvement in rigid strict regulation is giving them an oppressive role in larger society, not just with criminals.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      9 May 2013 at 10:40 am

      Along with cutting the need for regular WoFs, these vehicle safety checks make so much sense.

    • muzza 10.2
      9 May 2013 at 11:30 am

      Its simply another way of conditioning people to being pulled over, for your safety of course!

      I passed through a *random check* in AKL, middle of the day, not anywhere near an AKL drinking/entertainment district, and breath tested.

      When I asked the officer if he felt this was not the best use of time, I got a full vehicle check etc carried out.

      Seems some police don’t like to be questioned either.

      The Police Force became a disgrace decades ago, and are in a serious decline, along with the public opinion of them!

      • McFlock 10.2.1
        9 May 2013 at 2:00 pm

        Passed the breath test, failed the fuckwit test, eh?

        You obviously have as good a knowledge of the habits of drunk drivers as you do of flight paths – speaking of which: more geoengineering?

        • Ugly Truth 10.2.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 3:30 pm

          “more geoengineering?”

          Try using the Appleman chart.

          http://chemtrailsnz.wordpress.com/tag/appleman-chart/

        • muzza 10.2.1.2
          9 May 2013 at 4:36 pm

          McFlock, what is with you and the insults….That’s rhetorical , in case you dont see it. – Must be one of those situations, where you can;t help but *be a little dick*

          These are not rhetorical;

          1: Are you familiar with the habits of drunk drivers, near the check point in AKL that I went through?

          2: Show me where I don’t understand flight paths , McFlock

          Interesting, that link of yours seems very desperate when added to http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/8651737/Chemtrails-over-Nelson-cause-concern

          Looks like the MSM , minus any factual details about the conditions required to form/sustain such trails, is lacking from your link and the one I put in this comment!

          Amazing how such conditions exist right over the city innit, yet no evidence in either article attempting to prove such conditions prevailed….

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 10.2.1.2.1
            9 May 2013 at 5:13 pm

            If my own feelings are anything to go by, McFlock’s hostility is a response to the insufferable know-better arrogance you affect when you recycle conspiracy memes.

            • muzza 10.2.1.2.1.1
              9 May 2013 at 5:21 pm

              Its unfortunate, (for you) that your self perception is such, that you interpret my posts as, *know better arrogance*, they are no such thing!

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                9 May 2013 at 5:45 pm

                Thank you for illustrating my point so well.

              • McFlock …
                9 May 2013 at 5:53 pm

                Yeah, that’s the shizzle.
                Here’s a hint: my perception of you is not self–perception.

                My perception of you could be roughly described as “an insufferable and spectacularly undeserved know-better arrogance envelopes and smothers the bluntly rough-hewn intellectual contours of an absolute imbecile, the entire edifice serving only to provide a textbook example of the Dunning–Kruger effect”.

              • muzza …
                9 May 2013 at 6:20 pm

                OAB – yeah, nah., best get some help tp scrape yourself up off the track champ, McFlock can clainm the assist!

                McFlock – Slow down mate, you don’t have the chops for that sort of thing, best stick with those small steps I referred to below, you have my encouragement!

                Edit – Nice attempt to (facepalm) distract, again, slow down, it was not an attempted insult (I’ll levave those to you, and others), it was that encouragement, I said I’d give you!

                Chin up!

                • McFlock …
                  9 May 2013 at 6:25 pm

                  It’s like being mugged by a teenager with a nerf gun.
                  Is this a serious attempt, or just another experiment as part of your Project Onan, muzz?

          • McFlock 10.2.1.2.2
            9 May 2013 at 5:38 pm

            1: no. But nor are you. If boozy folk tooling around during that area during the day was identified as a local problem there, I would expect the police to do something about it. I would also expect the police to run deterrent checks so that drivers don’t assume that they’ll be alright police-wise. So at worst 30sec of your life was taken as a public service announcement that drink drivers might be caught anywhere, anytime. This is a good thing.

            2: Show me where you’ve written about flight paths.

            3: The MSM is lacking from your link? You fail to create a coherent sentence, yet still expect respect for your abstract comprehension skills?

            4: Amazing how such conditions exist right over the city innit, yet no evidence in either article attempting to prove such conditions prevailed….
            No more amazing than when a newspaper reports a house fire without attempting to prove that fire is hot.

            • muzza 10.2.1.2.2.1
              9 May 2013 at 5:44 pm

              McFlock – You do know yourself, at least a little, and the self evaluation was correct.

              I’ll not comment about orders of magnitude, because what’s more important, is that you are capable of recognizing, and admitting that you can be a dick!

              Small steps my friend, small steps!

  11. prism 11
    9 May 2013 at 10:22 am

    When the buses were found not up to standard, the police mentioned that the driver would be held to account just the same as a car driver would be. Driver should walk around and check their bus before they set off on their busy day.

    And what if they find something not up to regs? An interior light has a dead bulb, a screw loose in a seat back. Does he demand immediate attention from a keenly waiting mechanic who will spring to action? And does the bus driver get paid an extra half-hour for the time spent checking and the waiting time for the extremely active mechanic to rush in with his battery operated screwdriver, spare screws and bulbs. Dream on.

    I think bus drivers fought for more than $16 an hour on their regular 12 hour day recently, driving a bus necessarily supplied by the company. I think that this approach of placing responsibility on the shoulders of workers for things that are the task of owners and employers, came in the 1980’s. Appreciate your bus driver today – he or she is a paragon of virtue that most could never parallel.

    • millsy 11.1
      9 May 2013 at 11:20 am

      We shouldnt have privatised the bus operators…

      • freedom 11.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 7:57 pm

        “We shouldnt have privatised the bus operators…”
        the airlines
        the universities
        the hospitals
        the schools
        the prisons
        the roads
        the trains
        the water
        the beaches
        the rivers
        the parks
        the hills
        the law
        the phones
        the power co’s
        the parliament

        none of it was a good idea
        if your endgame is about helping the People

  12. prism 12
    9 May 2013 at 10:37 am

    While I’m at the computer. My thoughts on Bangladesh women garment workers and some men, were died in a horrific building disaster. Considering they are.earning such a big part of the nation’s income and making the huge amount of product they export this is a terrible loss of productive workers. I think I heard 80% for Bangladesh of whatever the stat was – export earnings or export volumes or jobs in the country.

    And these sewers are human battery hens. They are the golden goose producing for this poor nation, which cares so little that the workers are just like above ground Pike River miners. NZ can’t be superior in this matter. Do the people producing what is the base of the money spiralling up to the giant financial houses, get respect, and consideration, and rewards, and honours? No.

    Yesterday I put up a quote from a joe90 link. A Mexican garment executive attacked a low-income man for not obeying him and knocked out his teeth. The garment industry owners around the world may be similar in feeling hostility and callous and superiority because – they can. Who cares to limit or stop them?

    • Colonial Viper 12.1
      9 May 2013 at 10:42 am

      The western corporate directors who use these gawd-awful suppliers are akin to politicians who fund and direct concentration camps.

  13. Seti 13
    9 May 2013 at 10:49 am

    Unemployment dropped from 6.9% to 6.2%, with the consensus for 6.8%.

    “There were 38,000 more people employed this quarter – up 1.7 percent. The rise in employment came mainly from full-time employment and was across a range of industries.”

  14. Rosie 14
    9 May 2013 at 10:52 am

    Folks, check out this Labourstart campaign, supported by the CTU, for addressing worker’s rights and conditions in Fiji. Its right here in our backyard.Our Pacific neighbours need us to stand with them.

    http://destinationfiji.org/

  15. Poission 15
    9 May 2013 at 10:56 am

    Once again we see a private public partnership cannot even meets its legal obligations Infratil again

    http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=55187

  16. Professor Longhair 16
    9 May 2013 at 11:56 am

    When Truth and Integrity are Dead-Letter Words
    Washington’s Presumption
    by PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS, Counterpunch, May 8, 2013

    The new president of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro, is cast in Chavez’s mold. On May 4, he called US president Obama the “grand chief of devils.”

    Obama, who has betrayed democracy in America, unleashing execution on American citizens without due process of law and war without the consent of Congress, provoked Maduro’s response by suggesting that Maduro’s newly elected government might be fraudulent. Obviously, Obama is piqued that the millions of dollars his administration spent trying to elect an American puppet instead of Maduro failed to do the job.

    If anyone has accurately summed up Washington, it is the Venezuelans. Who can forget Chevez standing at the podium of the UN General Assembly in New York City speaking of George W. Bush? Quoting from memory: “Right here, yesterday, at this very podium stood Satan himself, speaking as if he owned the world. You can still smell the sulphur.”

    Hegemonic Washington threw countless amounts of money into the last Venezuelan election, doing its best to deliver the governance of that country to a Washington puppet called Henrique Capriles, in my opinion a traitor to Venezuela. Why isn’t this American puppet arrested for treason? Why are not the Washington operatives against an independent country–the US ambassador, the counsels, the USAID/CIA personnel, the Washington funded NGOs–ordered to leave Venezuela immediately or arrested and tried for spying and high treason? Why allow any presence of Washington in Venezuela when it is clear that Washington’s intention is to make Venezuela a puppet state like the UK, Germany, Canada, Australia, Turkey, Japan, and on and on.

    There was a time, such as in the Allende-Pinochet era, when the American left-wing and a no longer extant liberal media would have been all over Washington for its illegal interference in the internal affairs of an independent country. But no more. As CounterPunch’s Jeffrey St. Clair has recently made clear, the American left-wing remains “insensate to the moral and constitutional transgressions being committed by their champion”–the first black, or half-black, US president–leaving “Rand Paul to offer official denunciations against [Washington’s] malignant operations” against independent countries.

    Against the Obama regime’s acts of international and domestic violence, “the professional Left, from the progressive caucus to the robotic minions of Moveon.org, lodge no objections and launch no protests.” St. Clair has written a powerful article. Read it for yourself…
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/03/the-game-of-drones/print

    I think the American left-wing lost its confidence when the Soviet Union collapsed and the Chinese communists and Indian socialists turned capitalist. Everyone misread the situation, especially the “end of history” idiots. The consequence is a world without strong protests of Washington’s and its puppet states’ war criminal military aggressions, murder, destruction of civil liberty and human rights, and transparent propaganda: “Last night Polish forces crossed the frontier and attacked Germany,” or so declared Adolf Hitler. Washington’s charges of “weapons of mass destruction” are even more transparent lies.

    But hardly any care. The Western governments and Japan are all paid off and bought, and those that are not bought are begging to be bought because they want the money too. Truth, integrity, these are all dead-letter words. No one any longer knows what they mean.

    The moronic George W. Bush said, in Orwellian double-speak, they hate us for our freedom and democracy. They don’t hate us because we bomb them, invade them, kill them, destroy their way of life, culture, and infrastructure. They hate us because we are so good. How stupid does a person have to be to believe this BS?

    Washington and Israel present the world with unmistakable evil. I don’t need to stand at the UN podium after Bush or Obama. I can smell Washington’s evil as far away as Florida. Jeffrey St. Clair can smell it in Oregon. Nicolas Maduro can smell it in Venezuela. Evo Morales can smell it in Bolivia from where he cast out CIA-infiltrated USAID. Putin can smell it in Russia, although he still permits the treasonous “Russian opposition” funded by US money to operate against Russia’s government. The Iranians can smell it in the Persian Gulf. The Chinese can smell it as far away as Beijing.

    Homeland Security, a gestapo institution, has “crisis actors” to help it deceive the public in its false flag operations.

    The Obama regime has drones with which to silence American citizens without due process of law.

    Homeland Security has more than a billion rounds of ammunition, tanks, a para-military force. Detention camps have been built.

    Are Americans so completely stupid that they believe this is all for “terrorists” whose sparse numbers require the FBI to manufacture “terrorists” in so-called “sting operations” in order to justify the FBI’s $3 billion special fund from Congress to combat domestic terrorism?

    Congress has taxpayers paying the FBI to frame up innocents and send them to prison.

    This is the kind of country American has become. This is the kind of “security” agencies it has, filling their pockets by destroying the lives of the innocent and downtrodden.

    “In God we trust,” reads the coinage. It should read: “In Satan we follow.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/08/washingtons-presumption/

    Paul Craig Roberts is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. His latest book is The Failure of Laissez-Faire Capitalism. Roberts’ How the Economy Was Lost is now available from CounterPunch in electronic format.

  17. Matthew Hooton 17
    9 May 2013 at 11:57 am

    Great new employment data now out at http://stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey_MRMar13qtr.aspx
    Unemployment now very low by world standards, and much less than in socialist Europe or David Shearer’s model country of Finland – see http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=STLABOUR

    • Professor Longhair 17.1
      9 May 2013 at 12:03 pm

      Hooton? Is this the same toxic cockroach that was involved in the Brethren’s secret funding of the National Party before the 2005 elections?

      • Private Baldrick 17.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 12:21 pm

        Are you undercover again Corporal Morrissey ?

        • weka 17.1.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 8:45 pm

          lol

        • Morrissey 17.1.1.2
          10 May 2013 at 7:32 am

          I would urge you to be careful, Baldrick. Any more insinuations like that, and you’ll find yourself in the libel court.

          • The Al1en 17.1.1.2.1
            10 May 2013 at 8:06 am

            Next you’ll be threatening nuke strikes and moving missile to your coast.

            And insinuation isn’t a question, just like are you a knob? Isn’t an insult.

    • karol 17.2
      9 May 2013 at 12:30 pm

      From the stats NZ link:

      Over the year Canterbury’s labour market has continued to improve, with both employment and participation rising. The region’s unemployment rate is now down to 4.3 percent. Excluding Canterbury from the national estimates shows a much weaker labour market, with both the employment rate and labour force participation rate falling over the year.

      NZ doesn’t compare so well internationally with average income and the size of the income inequality gap.

      OECD Better Life results for NZ:

      In New-Zealand, the average person earns 18 601 USD a year, less than the OECD average of 22 387 USD a year. But there is a considerable gap between the richest and poorest – the top 20% of the population earn five times as much as the bottom 20%.

      And OECD comparison with other countries on income: just below Portugal and Greece; below Australia, Ireland and Finland.

    • Ennui 17.3
      9 May 2013 at 1:39 pm

      Matthew, you are seriously under performing as a self appointed luminary (I wont say intellectual) of the Right. Its rather telling that you cannot even tell the difference between “social democracy” and “socialist” with regard to your comments on Europe. F Minus Matthew, and under your regime thats more student debt you would have to pay.

    • Te Reo Putake 17.4
      9 May 2013 at 1:43 pm

      Great new unemployment data, says Hooters. The actual truth is that we’re just back to where we were 3 years ago. Get back to us when you acheive Clark era levels of employment, Matthew. Not that your masters have a plan for that, of course, because mass unemployment keeps the serfs in line.

    • mickysavage 17.5
      9 May 2013 at 3:04 pm

      Hey Matthew. You said yesterday at 10:37 am about Happy Gilmore “[h]is position is not as untenable as it will be this time tomorrow.”

      What did you mean by this? I thought Cameron was going to do a big expose sort of thing and nothing has happened …

      • Te Reo Putake 17.5.1
        9 May 2013 at 3:26 pm

        Oh, something’s happened alright. Gilmore has turned up in Parliament, ignoring Key’s demand that he go quietly. I imagine he’ll be bench buddies with Brendan Horan PDQ if Key doesn’t back off.

        • mickysavage 17.5.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 4:15 pm

          And here it comes …

          Just from Stuff:

          “Meanwhile, Gilmore could face fresh questions after the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment confirmed it was taking legal advice before answering questions about his previous employment.

          Fairfax has been told senior ministers were aware before Gilmore re-entered Parliament recently that there had been other allegations related to his work for the Department of Building and Housing – predecessor to the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment.

          When asked yesterday if he was aware of those allegations, Economic Developmment Minister Steven Joyce said he had been briefed, but could not recall details.

          A spokesman later said that it was not clear whether Joyce had been briefed or not.

          If he was, the briefing was only “an FYI”, along the lines that Gilmore had a contract that was ended.

          The briefing did not go into any futher detail.

          In response to questions from Fairfax yesterday, MBIE said it would supply answers by the end of the day.

          Late last night a spokeswoman said there would not be a response till today.

          This morning the spokeswoman confirmed the matter was now with MBIE’s lawyers.”

          Doncha you love their handiwork. No sign of a knife or any finger prints but Gilmore is suddenly sporting a number of stab wounds to his back. I bet he didn’t even see them coming.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8649811/Defiant-Aaron-Gilmore-turns-up-in-House?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

          • veutoviper 17.5.1.1.1
            9 May 2013 at 4:40 pm

            I may be wrong, but the camera man wearing the cap in view in the video of Key now included in that Stuff article looks like Bradley Ambrose of Tea Cup affair fame. If it is, how ironic!

          • The Al1en 17.5.1.1.2
            9 May 2013 at 4:50 pm

            “I bet he didn’t even see them coming.”

            Too busy snouting the trough while up creeps the butcher.

            Wonder if his mum still thinks the treatment he’s getting is “disgusting”? 😆

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17.5.1.1.3
            9 May 2013 at 5:04 pm

            …because employment is not really important. What really matters now is what the lowest person on National’s list is up to.

            • The Al1en 17.5.1.1.3.1
              9 May 2013 at 5:15 pm

              “…because employment is not really important. What really matters now is what the lowest person on National’s list is up to.”

              If employment were really important, national would have done something about it four years ago, unlike with Gilmore, where they move faster than light to prevent harm to the brand.
              What are you, a numb nuts?

          • Alanz 17.5.1.1.4
            9 May 2013 at 7:13 pm

            Oh dearie oh dearie.. news from the inside is that the attempt to cut Aaron loose asap by this evening has met with speed bumps.

            And the MBIE issue, thanks to typical dirty modus operandi by John Key and the Natz that they are now using to turn against one of their own, might unintentionally make things a bit trickier and splash some muck around.

            Dear Aaron feeling the sting from his own party who are out to smear him and shame him. There is Natz dirt that he has which might come in handy to get them to back off.

            • karol 17.5.1.1.4.1
              9 May 2013 at 7:21 pm

              Now Key is trying to blame Gilmore’s refusal to go on MMP. So, no responsibility from the Natz for putting such a waste of space on their list?

              • felix …
                9 May 2013 at 9:08 pm

                Not a good look for Key.

                His inability as PM to exert his control over the lowest MP on his own party’s list makes him seem a bit weak.

    • Tim 17.6
      9 May 2013 at 5:21 pm

      The stats might be great, I’m not sure the reality is though.
      Maybe we could put it all down to what the Aussies describe as the 2 speed economy, but I’d prefer to wait another cycle before I believe what is presented.
      When earlier I walked from Mt Vic to Te Aro, there were 10 ‘new faces’ on the street begging (that’s aside from the faces I normally see in doorways or with cardboard signs).

  18. Rogue Trooper 18
    9 May 2013 at 1:04 pm

    1) a changing magnetic field induces an electromagnetic force in a conductor.
    2) the direction of the induced electromagnetic force depends on the orientation of the field etc.

    Conversations with Kafka : only $7 at The Little Red Book Shop.

    in my observational opinion there is an increased incidence of high-profile frauds to fund lifestyles (reported) coinciding with increased incidence of sexual predation crimes (Crime stats support).
    from commentary on Ross Assets Management- “it’s an epidemic, fraud in this country.”

    English on Solid Energy- “there will be no subsidies” (hole in the ground down Waihi homeowners).

    3 News : people have developed $500 a week addictions to legal highs.

    Bowel cancer sceening reveals from 60,000, 1350 indications, 60 remediations, yet Ryall wants to drag out screening only to a future date.

    Samsung washing machines? all washed out on the seigfried line.

    and the vertiginous cliffs behind Christchurch?- “bureaucracy, both public and private, and insurers”- Julie Greenfield.

    dioxin canals in the B.O.P; maybe Michael Hill should soak his atrociously gauche taste in sculpture there; there is certainly no accounting for it.

    FAIR GO? JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT RENTIER BEHAVIOUR could not get any greedier, Landlords privately marketing properties to rent, charging letting fees; just when you thought you’d fleeced it all…

    it was either the complete waste of racist, stereotyping sh*t called Harry demoralising Oscar Kightly or the Maynard James Keenan tribute on C4; I went with a perfect circle…
    Counting Bodies like Sheep

  19. ghostrider888 19
    9 May 2013 at 1:12 pm

    a couple of spare tools;
    A straight-edged Parabola

  20. lprent 20
    9 May 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Odd outage.. The php system just died and took apache with it. I’ll have to look at the logs to see what caused it.

    Damn I should have waited a few more minutes and checked if the new restart systems are doing their job.

  21. Morrissey 21
    9 May 2013 at 3:48 pm

    The decline of The Panel continues
    Radio NZ National, Thursday, 9 May 2013

    I mentioned yesterday that Jim Mora’s chat show had been improving lately, due to the absence of the extremely sinister or vacuous guests who normally blighted this programme. I had hoped that the appearance of the gruesome double act of Boag & Edwards yesterday was a brief return to the bad old days.

    Sadly, I must report that today’s guests are the notorious National Party shill David Farrar and the shallow Dunedin columnist Lisa Scott.

    I can’t stand this any longer. Will someone let the rest of us know how the programme goes today? I need a break for a while.

    • Tim 21.1
      9 May 2013 at 5:41 pm

      See below. Biz as usual. Has RNZ got a ‘Light Entertainment’ section these days?
      I thought I’d give it a go today after some Afternoons rest and recuperation.
      That’s it till summertime.

    • Paul 21.2
      9 May 2013 at 6:13 pm

      No doubt no mention of Farrar’s leanings or paymasters?

      • Morrissey 21.2.1
        9 May 2013 at 7:42 pm

        No doubt no mention of Farrar’s leanings or paymasters?

        Of course not. I missed nearly the whole show today. Was there anything worth listening to, or was it the usual?

        • Paul 21.2.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 8:11 pm

          Didn’t hear it either.
          The opportunity to listen to Davis Farrar was one I chose to pass on.
          I find his spinning for the government nauseating.

  22. ianmac 22
    9 May 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Stuff: ” A parliamentary lift encounter with National MP Aaron Gilmore ended with the shamed backbencher saying he wasn’t going to resign.

    Following Question Time in Parliament this afternoon, Gilmore departed with MP Tau Henare. ……
    when asked while entering a lift if he was going to quit he replied: “No’’ ”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8649811/Defiant-Aaron-Gilmore-turns-up-in-House

    • Morrissey 22.1
      9 May 2013 at 3:55 pm

      Gilmore is a choirboy when compared with John Banks, who still remains in parliament.

      • Tigger 22.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 5:41 pm

        +1. Gilmore is a twerp but on the face of it he’s done nothing to warrant sacking. A slap perhaps but not firing. Banks however is a crook.

  23. Elizabeth Bourchier 23
    9 May 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Greg Newbold has just been on RNZ Mora “show”. The “man” is not capable of marking a serious analysis of the simplest issue. His folksy mix of Stats, anecdotes and prejudice is ugly. Mora was a lazy interviewer. Shameful stuff.
    Please tell me Newbold is NOT an Academic!!!

    • Tim 23.1
      9 May 2013 at 5:30 pm

      He is Elizabeth. I heard the patriarchal society stuff (much of which was factual). What got me was his absolute faith in the NZ Police in enforcing incidents without discrimination.
      He pointed out that where various crimes of violence occur there is ‘zero tolerance’ and the Police must prosecute. That’s the theory – the reality is often very different.
      Actually, what got me more was that nice man Jim’s groveling and willingness to take all without question

      • Paul 23.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 6:15 pm

        Mora is a disgrace to public broadcasting.
        Chris Hedges ‘Death of the Liberal Class’ pretty much sums up folk like Mora. They have sold out for very little.

    • Morrissey 23.2
      9 May 2013 at 7:52 pm

      Please tell me Newbold is NOT an Academic!!!

      He is indeed an academic, just like—to name four egregious cases off the top of my head—Steve Hoadley at Auckland, Ron Smith and Dov Bing at Waikato, and David Round at Christchurch.

      We need to be aware that academia is not so different from any other hierarchical institution: the people who get ensconced in the system are not necessarily very bright, and certainly not good or moral or decent individuals. Newbold, Hoadley, Smith, Bing and Round are regular media commentators; all of them are reliably hardline and doctrinaire in their thinking. In fact, Newbold’s latest comments are fair, rational and balanced compared to the others I’ve mentioned.

    • North 23.3
      9 May 2013 at 8:36 pm

      No he’s not an academic in the true sense. We know what he is. He is a man whose past is still with HIM big time, and thus a man who craves respectability as an antidote to HIS demons.

      I’d like to see Newbold acknowledge that his former enterprise was/is in “direct association” with mindless violence and social mayhem.

      Pompous professor prick !

      • Tim 23.3.1
        9 May 2013 at 9:26 pm

        a bit harsh (maybe). I admire his success in putting a self-destructive life behind him. What I don’t particularly like though is the inbuilt disdain from those that do (such as Greg) towards others that haven’t been quite as successful in doing so. They constitute a cast of thousands. Some of them (such as certain music historians) even re-invent history.
        I’ve never attended a Newbold lecture so I wouldn’t know about the pomposity but if he ever pulled that on me I’d kick him in the cods

        • Murray Olsen 23.3.1.1
          10 May 2013 at 1:06 am

          Newbold used his past to do well in academia. Silly liberal sociologists got a thrill from having the bad boy around. He can also run a really, really long way. His sociology is about as distinguished as his running – it goes on and on, and is essentially meaningless. His PhD thesis was basically about how maximum security prisons are good if a nice guy runs them. He’s not deep.

          • Morrissey 23.3.1.1.1
            10 May 2013 at 7:36 am

            He’s not deep.

            And neither are Hoadley, Smith, Bing and Round. It helps your academic career if you are not deep, but if you know how to cultivate people.

            Just like politics, actually.

  24. aerobubble 24
    9 May 2013 at 5:11 pm

    List MPs gone feral?

    What I don’t get is why when someone facing the full light of public scrutiny, wouldn’t want to take the first exit they find. Horan and Gilmore given a choice of some pork outside of govt might be eager to avail themselves. This would require cross party accord that list MPs who right royally trip themselves up, or are tripping, would assist when in government (the holders of pork). A nudge and a wink, if you go fast you’ll get a position on said board or what have you. Instead they just grab their wound and start gouging out further fresh.

    And it will become even more apparent those who just want to hang on and on, that they aren’t good sorts and so harm their future prospects.

    Horan and now Gilmore reflect more Key’s political incompetence.

  25. aerobubble 25
    9 May 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Backbenchers. A student teacher pointed out how it was wrong that new partnership schools were targeting the tail, such experimentation surely should at least have some mainstream schools to qualify for the description of a pilot program. Why are essential pakeha right wingers demanding that the large Maori tail be syphoned off into a private for profit adventure? And should we all be worried that this political scam will have to include a mainstream school or two (probably in ChCh?)?

    And what will the rest of the tail do while National mess up education for even fewer?

    • prism 25.1
      9 May 2013 at 6:05 pm

      Good questions. Is there are way of stopping this crap. Perhaps we should think about the constitution conversation. Is there anything we could write into it to stop incomers throwing out our treasured systems.

      These people are no better than Genghis Khan and his horde. They imposed their will by bloodshed. We thought we’d stopped that with voting, concern about our wishes and ideas, wrapped up in the delectable democratic package.

      • aerobubble 25.1.1
        10 May 2013 at 2:10 pm

        Why does the Labour party not support a upper chamber of long serving kiwis who have the long term good of the nation and the ability… …instead the major parties stack their list with dumbies when the whole idea of the list was to get experts in to counter balance the loss of the upper chamber. NZ parliament is a joke, Gilmore is the latest, Worthless was the first.

    • Morrissey 25.2
      9 May 2013 at 7:32 pm

      As that young woman was elegantly demolishing her ridiculous case, Catherine Isaac’s angry glare could have split a rock. It was like this, but ramped up tenfold, to the point of homicidal rage….
      http://saveourschoolsnz.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/catherine-isaac-e1357628103461.jpg

  26. halfcrown 26
    9 May 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Just seen Shearer on prime news giving his opinion on the unemployment figures. Er er um um er er um um er er um um.
    For fucks sake. Come back Cunliffe all is forgiven.

  27. Paul 27
    9 May 2013 at 6:00 pm

    So you’re Aaron Gilmore and the Nats have dissed you.
    You also are someone whom puts yourself first..
    What about this for a plan?
    OK, I’ll vote for the GCSB bill, but how much will you pay me for it?
    Now, about my vote for future asset sales, how much will you pay me for it?
    Seriously, though, he’s is quite a position of power at the moment.

  28. kiwi_prometheus 28
    9 May 2013 at 6:15 pm

    The German’s new weapon is “Nein”
    They think that austerity’s fine
    The deal has been made
    A painful grenade
    For everyone south of the Rhine

    The Limerick King

    http://maxkeiser.com/2013/05/09/may-nein-2013/

  29. karol 29
    9 May 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Maurice Williamson doesn’t want to go on the Ellen Show if it is only about him. He’d rather use the slot to do a pitch for NZ on behalf of the Minister of Tourism. Though, if you read down the article, “being about him” includes dancing.

    “But they are keen for it to be about me and want me featuring and dancing, and I kept saying I don’t want it to be about me.

    “They said ‘We’re about people, not about countries’.”

    Mr Williamson said he wanted the opportunity to sell New Zealand to homosexuals around the world as an attractive country to visit.

    • Morrissey 29.1
      9 May 2013 at 7:55 pm

      Dancing fool. Everyone who goes onto that godawful show is REQUIRED to dance. It’s embarrassing, it’s horrible, in fact it’s repulsive.

      • North 29.1.1
        9 May 2013 at 8:51 pm

        Yes, as much as I’m prepared to give it a glance from time to time…….it’s so cargo-cult. Witness the ecstasy when the audience of 400, each and every one of them, is awarded a flat screen or something else reasonably meaty, just for being there. My God, it’s gonna be a hoot watching The Dancing Mr Mayor Wannabee. I’ll betcha he can’t dance for shit.

        • Morrissey 29.1.1.1
          9 May 2013 at 8:59 pm

          To quote Mr. George Michael, guilty feet ain’t got no rhythm. That’s why Obama and Condoleezza Rice can’t dance, either.

    • felix 29.2
      9 May 2013 at 9:12 pm

      zOMFG HE WANTS TO SELL NZ TO TEH HOMOSEXUALS I KNEW IT SLIPPERY SLOPE ETC

  30. kiwi_prometheus 30
    9 May 2013 at 10:26 pm

    “Yesterday, I hopped into a taxi [ in Dublin ] and the driver was a polite young man from Shanghai. We got chatting and I asked him why he was here.

    He laughed and stated bluntly: “China is over”. His friends back home were up to their gills in debt and the prices of their apartments – which they had paid small fortunes for – were falling. Does this all sound familiar?

    It should sound like a similar playlist to ours, because China is about to experience a massive credit contraction, leaving not ghost estates but ghost cities and millions, not thousands, in negative equity. This development will have significant ramifications for the entire globe.”

    http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/05/09/china-could-learn-from-us-as-it-heads-for-massive-debt-crisis

    Poor Johnny Key is placed all his bets on China holding the NZ economy above the water.

  31. lprent 31
    10 May 2013 at 1:00 am

    Looks like mod_pagespeed is the failure point showing in the logs. Keeps dying with some kind of lock problem and taking apache2 with it. Happened three times today. Disabled it.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.