Open mike 14/06/2013

116 comments on “Open mike 14/06/2013 ”

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1. Pasupial 1

   14 June 2013 at 6:06 am

   Obviously, the Labour caucus did not listen to their membership when they selected Mumblefuck as “leader” of the party. How then did that come about? Well, this audio transcript of the pivotal decision moment has just come to me:

   Voice 1: I hereby convene this session of the Iron Spines Society.
   Voices [chanting]: We are the ABC Warriors!
   Voice [booming]: Bigjobs!!
   Voice 1: Yes. Now that our colleague has completed his 3 year assignment; snatching the laurels of failure from the jaws of victory, we needs must select a replacement. Lest we be at risk of the Goff’s human appearance seducing the punters away from the true path before our associate’s tasks are complete.
   Voices: [indistinct disgruntled murmuring]
   Voice 2: If I may have the floor? [sound of chairs moving etc.] We must be honest with ourselves; the Goff was a mistake; his humulation programing was too successful, and his, well; robotic…
   Voices: [chuckling]
   Voice: Bigjobs!!
   Voice 2: His robotic command of numbers created a dangerous perception of competance.
   Voices: [indistinct disgruntled murmuring]
   Voice 1: We know this already, Robertron.
   Voice 2: Ah, but does not our problem suggest it’s own solution? If the punters are indeed just a insufficiently industrious bunch of losers, then what do we need to seduce them to the cause of steel?
   Voice 1: You’re right! What we need is the greatest loser concievable…
   Voice 2: But where can we find this paragon of ineptituide?
   [sound of door knock, then hinge squeak as it opens]
   Voice 3: Did you want some tea? I mean, it smells like; engine oil, but that can’t… It must be tea – it’s in ummm… Teaspoons? No; cups. Or is it coffee? I may have some mango skins on me somewhere I could squeeze out for you? Did I ever tell you about the time I was in Africa…

   [Transcript ends]
   • Pasupial 1.1

     14 June 2013 at 6:24 am

     That was a cut and paste of an earlier comment (33.2.1 on Zetettic’s 7/6 “Gone” post), which is about to slip off the bottom of the page. It seems relevant again with the Sky City rugby box fiasco, and anyway; is the best bit of writing I’ve done since I’ve started commenting on this site – though I’d been a reader for years.

     Just so no gets confused: “Well, this audio transcript of the pivotal decision moment has just come to me”, means; I made up this satire to help deal with my anger about Labour’s incompetence. The; ABC Warriors, were a recurring story, with varying writers, in the 2000AD comic which is most famous for; Judge Dredd. They were; an unpleasant band of robotic mercenaries, whose main pleasure in unlife was watching human/ chainsaw torture porn.
     • Winston Smith 1.1.1

       14 June 2013 at 8:03 am

       Not all the ABC warriors (in particular Hammerstein) were like that especially when they hooked up with Nemesis the Warlock
       • Pasupial 1.1.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 8:15 am

         It’s been years since I’ve read the comic (is is still being done? Is 2000AD?). Yeah, OK; maybe Hammerstein wasn’t as bad as MekQuake – but that’s a pretty low bar!
         • Winston Smith 1.1.1.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 8:37 am

           2000AD is still going strong, in fact the Dredd movie that recently came out was pretty good (even though it bombed at the box office)
           • freedom 1.1.1.1.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 8:51 am

             +1, and every Dredd fan I know agrees, and wants more from Karl and the gang
             • Colonial Viper …

               14 June 2013 at 12:06 pm

               Yes please. Still amazes me that they thought to age Dredd in real time in the comics.
               • Winston Smith …

                 14 June 2013 at 2:21 pm

                 Well rejuv drugs help
2. Tom 2

   14 June 2013 at 6:40 am

   Pasupial, it looks as if you have been watching too much television. Are you aware of the difference between official fiction and reality ?

   “Earthquake ? What earthquake ?” said the Mayor as he brushed off a few crumbs and some debris and passed the tea to Alice.

   “.. and what is a Pasupial ?” asked the March Hare as he studied an old map of Australia.
   • Pasupial 2.1

     14 June 2013 at 8:11 am

     @ Tom
     You do understand the term; satire?

     I don’t watch TV since it’s gone digital, and rarely enough before then (why didn’t you say; “it looks like you read too many comics”? That’d at least be relevant, though a decade out of date). However, I view DVDs of series, where you get the fill without the content (terms that seem exactly the wrong way round to me). And do sometimes look up news footage online; but I’m not often interested enough. I will stream TV3’s; 7 days, if its on though.

     Pasupial is a nom de clave to protect myself against offline retaliation. It refers to my wee Basupial’s tendency to; cling on like a koala to a tree, with myself & Masupial.
     • David H 2.1.1

       14 June 2013 at 8:34 am

       7 Days is back on again. About the only thing worth watching on a Friday night until the Cricket comes on.
3. Yes 3

   14 June 2013 at 7:02 am

   I know I say “its a non story” on here a bit but the best non story of the week is the Labour MP’s at the sky city corporate box. If it was business then can the emails and recorded conversations be tabled or leaked to Winston.

   I am really concerned that 4 labour MP’s are soliciting corporate sponsorship or business deals.

   Can anyone help?
   • Paul 3.1

     14 June 2013 at 7:24 am

     You know you’re stirring……..
     • Yes 3.1.1

       14 June 2013 at 9:19 am

       Not stirring – always declared my position on here. im centre right and enjoy the dialogue. It is a stuff up by labour isn’t it?
       • Pasupial 3.1.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 12:59 pm

         @ Yes
         I’m not so sure about the; “centre” part of “centre right”, but yeah; you’ve been tolerably upfront about your views. And yes; it was a stuff-up by Labour, or at least; one part of the Labour caucus, rather than the Labour party as a whole.

         However, NAct’s reponse that; the scandal lay in the Labour MPs accepting the seats in the Sky City box and then not voting for their legislation, suggests that a seat at the rugby really is enough to buy your average NAct MP. Whereas the 4 Labour MPs (plus their 10 minute leader) were merely guilty of a miserable error in judgement, rather than systemic corruption.

         But it’s an ill wind that blows no one any good: The Greens have come out of this looking like the only Party in Parliament who actually believe in any ethical principles.
       • Paul 3.1.1.2

         14 June 2013 at 5:09 pm

         Yes a stuff up for sure.
       • Paul 3.1.1.3

         14 June 2013 at 5:09 pm

         Yes a stuff up for sure.
       • Paul 3.1.1.4

         14 June 2013 at 5:09 pm

         Yes a stuff up for sure.
   • amirite 3.2

     14 June 2013 at 7:31 am

     Man, who is advising these idiots? They had it on a plate this week – the Dunne affair, the continuous erosion of labour rights – and then they go and mingle with the SkyCity crowd. And all of a sudden, the topic is not the corrupt ways of the Key government and the Sky City deal, but the blatant hypocrisy of Labour politicians.
     It’s fucking embarrassing, because as we know, and the MSM are constantly reminding us of it – in politics, it’s all about perception.
     • marty mars 3.2.1

       14 June 2013 at 8:39 am

       Yep key is calling it “deep hypocrisy” and sadly another arrow in the quiver that could be used to stop these gnats has been broken.

       ” Phil Goff, Annette King, Kris Faafoi and Clayton Cosgrove accepted SkyCity’s invitation. Their leader David Shearer declined, but turned up for 10 minutes anyway.

       Prime Minister John Key said the Labour MPs had displayed “deep hypocrisy” after accusing the Government of being too close to SkyCity over the casino company’s plans to build a $400 million convention centre in Auckland in return for concessions on gambling laws.

       “These guys have been running around parading as if they’re holier than thou, telling everybody how terrible SkyCity is and how the sky was going to cave in because a convention centre was being built and the moment we turn our back they are taking their sausage rolls and free beers in their box watching the All Blacks play,” he said today.”

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10890361

       What a fucken joke this labour opposition is.
       • martin 3.2.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 8:43 am

         I couldnt agree more.
         Labour is a shambles and these Labour MPs dont seem to care, seems they think their career is over at next election already so they should be booted out now along with their wetfish leader
       • handle 3.2.1.2

         14 June 2013 at 10:24 am

         Just as well there is also a Greens opposition.
     • Boadicea 3.2.2

       14 June 2013 at 8:45 am

       These arrogant clowns were being mollycuddled by Sky City hostesses while we were collecting Asset signatures .
       • Socialist Paddy 3.2.2.1

         14 June 2013 at 8:54 am

         Aye.

         King, Goff, Faaafoi and Cosgrove are dickheads. Are they that stupid that they do not realise how bad it looks? Next time there is a request for the good people of South Auckland and West Auckland to put their hands in their pockets to help fund the Labour Party they will be less likely to do so because of these dickheads.

         They are representatives of a proud political movement that has achieved a great deal of good for many ordinary people over many decades. These other bastards, the National Party, are wrecking the country and have to be thrown out next election. To maximise the left’s chances there needs to be no stuff ups and no dickhead moments.

         All Labour MPs should be told to not accept any invitations to corporate boxes, especially those sponsored by Sky City, just in case they are too dickheaded to realise how bad it looks.

         Dickheads, dickheads, dickheads.

         Did I mention that I think they are dickheads?
         • TheContrarian 3.2.2.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 9:21 am

           Yeah, pretty fundamentally stupid eh? I really want to like Labour but they sure make it fucking difficult.

           At this stage I don’t want to vote for any party.
           • vto 3.2.2.1.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 9:26 am

             Try the Vote Them Out party TC.

             The only true alternative.
             • TheContrarian …

               14 June 2013 at 9:32 am

               Maybe I’ll vote ALCP just because they are the only ones with a principle they actually stand behind.
               • felix …

                 15 June 2013 at 12:23 am

                 Meh, party vote National and a tick for a local liberal to make yourself feel better.
   • Perplexed 3.3

     14 June 2013 at 7:40 am

     Nah, it is just four stupid vain people with a big sense of entitlement.

     This is the core Shearer cheerleader team.
     They are the ones that pushed Charles Chauvel out of winning Ohariu.

     Besides taking $1,000 worth of hospitality each from Sky City, three of them used Tax Payer Funded flights to get to Auckland.

     Did Sky City pay fot their overnight accomodation?
     Did they stay in The Grand at Sky City’s expense?
     Did they get Sky City Limos or Tax Payer Funded Corporate Limos?
     Did any of them play tables with gift chips?

     Does the term “being compromised” mean anything to these selfish morons?
     • Paul 3.3.1

       14 June 2013 at 7:47 am

       They are National lite this crew
       • Pasupial 3.3.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 3:32 pm

         The Lite Right.
   • vto 3.4

     14 June 2013 at 8:52 am

     Did Phil Goff, Annette King, Kris Faafoi and Clayton Cosgrove not think how this may be perceived?

     Did they? Or not?

     What do they have to say to this fubar? Have they answered the allegation?
4. vto 4

   14 June 2013 at 8:05 am

   So it is becoming abundantly clear that Brownlee needs to pan pretty much everyone to do with the Christchurch central city rebuild (especially the Christchurch City Council) in order to take the prying eyes away from this government’s most massive failing in this arena….

   … that of the failure of the central city rebuild to spark. There have been plenty of stories of local investors and developers and entrepreneurs cashing up and leaving for other pastures. Long time locals. And now we, as participants in this rebuild, have come to a similar decision – a decision to pull back significantly from our intended steps.

   The reason for this failure of Brownlee and this government? Imo, it was their decision to abandon the free market approach to the central city rebuild and take an interventionist approach on a par with soviet era Russia and their 5-year plans. This heavy-handed interventionist big-government left-wing approach has heavily distorted the scene. It has distorted the landscape to such an extent that private enterprise in the central city is pretty much impossible and that is why there is pretty much none going on.

   That is why Brownlee is creating a crisis at the Council where there is none – to take the heat away from their failings.

   It is a serious shame because the donut city becomes more of a reality with every passing day.

   Brownlee should stick to his knitting.
   • mickysavage 4.1

     14 June 2013 at 8:18 am

     Agreed VTO.

     Interesting that offers of support are flooding in from other Councils. They obviously realise that if Christchurch gets beaten up they may be next.

     http://www.ccc.govt.nz/thecouncil/newsmedia/mediareleases/2013/201306135.aspx
     • vto 4.1.1

       14 June 2013 at 8:29 am

       Yep, was in there yesterday and told that they have been getting help from Southland and Hawke Bay, among others, for some time already. It is like I said – there really is no crisis. There is a problem, but it is a problem that is consistent right across the city now, namely that of insufficient capacity. Pretty much anything that you need or want has a waiting list now and it is simply due to excess demand that simply cannot be met due to a lack of suitable people to do everything. And that aint going to be resolved.

       And as above, the central city rebuild really is in dire straits. Aside from the more important housing and repair delays in the east, it is the most serious issue.

       If the government had left the central city rebuild to the marketplace (subject to a few public institutions and relatively minor planning changes) then land values were plummeting to levels that would have made rebuilding stack up. And rebuilding by private enterprise would have sparked by now – as it has in other outer parts of the city.

       By stepping in and mandating a Blueprint, and buying up half the city for their special anchor projects, they have completely distorted things.

       Why has this government abandoned its political philosophy of small government, no interference, pro-free market? It’s approach in Chch is the most far-left interventionist approach this country has probably ever seen. And it is not working. Idiots.
       • freedom 4.1.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 8:32 am

         square pegs and round holes, National’s policies and New Zealand’s needs
       • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2

         14 June 2013 at 6:23 pm

         Why has this government abandoned its political philosophy of small government, no interference, pro-free market?

         It hasn’t. The correct terminology is Two faced or Speaking with forked tongue. What National say is never what they mean. They want small, non-interventionist government for everyone but them and their rich mates, i.e, everyone is on their own except for them and their rich mates who will get government support and handouts.
   • David H 4.2

     14 June 2013 at 8:41 am

     Knitting??? More like eating everything in sight. Reminds me of Billy Bunter, the “Fat Owl of the Remove”

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bunter
   • Rogue Trooper 4.3

     14 June 2013 at 3:08 pm

     Prisoners to refurbish houses for HNZ
5. Winston Smith 5

   14 June 2013 at 8:06 am

   About time too, this is why we (the people of NZ) voted National in: to repeal section 97 of the Employment Relations Act 2000. Section 97 prevents the use of volunteers, contractors, or other casual employees by an employer during a strike or lockout.

   I hope Key goes through with this but he probably won’t, just so he can be seen to be center-right…
   • mickysavage 5.1

     14 June 2013 at 8:18 am

     Do you believe in the rule of law Winston?
     • Winston Smith 5.1.1

       14 June 2013 at 8:39 am

       Not always, depends on the law.
       • mickysavage 5.1.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 8:42 am

         You righties are unbelievable. You get all frothy on it if a law that you agree with is breached but if a law you do not agree with is breached you do not care.
       • David H 5.1.1.2

         14 June 2013 at 8:51 am

         Good Answer some laws are just plain stupid.
       • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1.1.3

         14 June 2013 at 9:01 am

         WS ducks the question.

         Being prepared to break a particular law can be a legitimate form of protest, and after all, there are consequences, but neither law breaking nor consequences would be possible were it not for the rule of law.

         I said, “can be”, because if we’re talking about the routine flouting or selective application of the law by the state, well, at that point the rule of law ceases.
   • Te Reo Putake 5.2

     14 June 2013 at 8:48 am

     Yet another scabs’ charter from the people who bought us the ’51 lockout. This dovetails nicely with the ‘reasonable’ changes they are proposing to allow bosses to walk away from bargaining. The boss ends bargaining, says ‘what are you gonna do about it?’ to their workers and if the staff take action, the boss brings in scabs under police protection. How’s that brighter future looking people?

     “I’d love to see wages drop”. John Key.
     • Tiger Mountain 5.2.1

       14 June 2013 at 9:44 am

       Exactly, now that scabbing is legal what more can the Nats do to the remaining workers in this country? Chain them to work stations? Lock fire doors?

       The tory labour legislation is all about downward pressure on wages and management by fear in a high unemployment environment. Jamie–Lee Ross what a tosser, hopefully he will get a suitable reaction if ever spotted in public by unionists.
     • Winston Smith 5.2.2

       14 June 2013 at 9:56 am

       Sure because a union would never start talks during the busy season at a meatworks would they? And they’d never go on strike during the busy time when they have the business over a barrell…no never

       Its about time National started doing what they were put in to do.
       • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.2.2.1

         14 June 2013 at 10:13 am

         What, collective action timed to be as effective as possible?

         Why are you so afraid of the freedoms of speech and assembly? Why are you whining about people exercising their freedoms?

         Are you a cry-baby as well as a scab?
         • Winston Smith 5.2.2.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 2:29 pm

           Scab…lol, sorry I seem to have misplaced my cloth cap as I trudge off down t’ mill

           I’m not saying people can’t strike, if they want to strike then good on them but employers shouldn’t be held to ransom by some union delegates
           • McFlock 5.2.2.1.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 2:40 pm

             Why not?
             Workers are held to ransom by employers the rest of the time.

             Every employer I ever worked for has insisted on getting all the work out of me before I get the money out of them. I’m sure a few folk can insist on it being the other way around, though. But not most workers.
           • Pasupial 5.2.2.1.1.2

             14 June 2013 at 3:38 pm

             @ O’Brien

             I see you remembered your arse-hat though.
       • mickysavage 5.2.2.2

         14 June 2013 at 10:21 am

         When is the last time the meatworkers have struck during the busy season or the interisland ferries been stopped at Christmas because of strike action Winston?

         If this is the problem that you say it is then why is the solution being applied 20 years too late?
   • vto 5.3

     14 June 2013 at 9:00 am

     Hey Winston Smith, take your attitude to workers and shove it as hard as you can right up until your eyes water, arsehole.

     Aint no trouble finding you in this you ignorant evil prick … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyUagbsg-HI
     • Winston Smith 5.3.1

       14 June 2013 at 9:58 am

       I appreciate that you have sexual feelings towards me but, alas, I’m happily married but don’t worry theres someone for everyone.

       
       • fender 5.3.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 11:28 am

         Once again you prove comprehension is not your forte.
         • Winston Smith 5.3.1.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 11:59 am

           It sounded like he/she wanted to have sexy times with me so I thought I’d let them down easy, don’t want to lead anyone on
           • fender 5.3.1.1.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 12:06 pm

             Maybe you place too much importance in having your arsehole giving you “sexy times”.
             • Winston Smith …

               14 June 2013 at 2:27 pm

               I don’t discriminate about where people have sexy times
               • fender …

                 14 June 2013 at 2:37 pm

                 Good on you, though your discrimination towards workers makes you look rather discriminaTory.
       • Rosetinted 5.3.1.2

         14 June 2013 at 12:14 pm

         W Smith I see you have turned up again to encourage the inhabitants to tease you with bananas and peanuts. Clever old you.
   • BLiP 5.4

     14 June 2013 at 9:37 am

     ‘

     When the people of New Zealand voted for National Ltd™ they did so, partially, on the basis of what John Key said. Among the statements he made about the direction his government would take are these . . .

     – We’re not proposing to change the Employment Relations Act in a way that weakens unions

     – I didn’t say I want wages to drop

     – we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs

     – there’s no way one in five New Zealanders will lose their jobs

     . . . he lied. Again. And again. And again. He’s still lying. If John Key told the truth about National Ltd™’s intentions it would never have been elected. The actions of National Ltd™ in the area of employment are being rammed down the throat of New Zealand workers without a mandate.
6. One Anonymous Knucklehead 6

   14 June 2013 at 10:01 am

   Um, moral high horse? I just said you ducked the question, there’s no horse about it.

   Undoubtedly there are laws which should be changed or repealed and perhaps infrequently there might be a need for entirely new laws. It is manifestly so, or else why bother with elections?

   The Rule of Law

   The rule of law also forms a significant part of the New Zealand constitution. The principles of the rule of law are not easily defined, but encompass ideas such as:

   the powers exercised by parliamentarians and officials are based on legal authority;
   there are minimum standards of justice to which the law must conform, eg laws affecting individual liberty should be reasonably certain and clear;
   the law should have safeguards against the abuse of wide discretionary powers;
   unfair discrimination should not be allowed by the law;
   a person should not be deprived of his or her liberty, status or other substantial interest without the opportunity of a fair hearing before an impartial court or tribunal.

   Comment apparently orphaned?
7. Brett Dale 7

   14 June 2013 at 10:39 am

   Syria uses chemical weapons on its own people, and not one word form the left wing parties of New Zealand.

   But if a farmer from Otago, sprays chemicals on his apples, Russell Norman will be screaming from the roof tops.

   Im sure the standard and the left wing parties will mention the syria story, of course they will blame the states though.
   • fender 7.1

     14 June 2013 at 10:50 am

     You need to wake up before you start typing, otherwise it just looks like a vague recollection of your disjointed R.E.M. sleep cycle.
     • Morrissey 7.1.1

       14 June 2013 at 11:20 am

       You need to wake up before you start typing, otherwise it just looks like a vague recollection of your disjointed R.E.M. sleep cycle.

       Sadly, and astoundingly, that is our friend Dale when he is wide awake. You might think it resembles the semi-conscious outpourings of someone not fully awake, or even suffering from drug abuse, but I assure you, fender, the poor fellow won’t get any better.
     • Brett Dale 7.1.2

       14 June 2013 at 11:23 am

       Fender

       Oh Please, your ideology is stopping you from condemning a crime,
       • fender 7.1.2.1

         14 June 2013 at 11:40 am

         Yeah the “States” made Bashar al-Assad use chemical weapons did they?

         Those Hobbit boxer shorts must be too tight, they seem to be restricting a supply of blood to your brain.
         • Populuxe1 7.1.2.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 11:46 am

           I rather think the implication was that the left wing parties whould be condemning Al-Assad. Your mind is fascinating.
           • fender 7.1.2.1.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 11:55 am

             You of course must be privy to details of the investigation before it is complete, whereas mere mortals will have to wait for official findings to be made public I suppose.
             • fender …

               14 June 2013 at 12:30 pm

               By the way, one of Bretts implications seemed to be that the NZ left would blame the “States” for making al Assad use chemical weapons on his own people.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 14 June 2013 at 9:40 pm

                 The States has simply been itching to supply heavy weapons to the anti Assad brigade (even though half of them are foreign islamists from Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and other nice places)

                 Nothing to go wrong here.
   • Morrissey 7.2

     14 June 2013 at 11:17 am

     Syria uses chemical weapons on its own people, and not one word form the left wing parties of New Zealand.

     Your witlessness never ceases to astound me. Those are allegations only; nothing has been proved. Where there WAS irrefutable proof of chemical weapon usage was in 2009-9, when Israel used Phosphorus bombs in its murderous assault on Gaza.

     Far from condemning that use of chemical weapons, I remember you frequently expressing your endorsement of it.

     The rest of your little rant is, as always, too incoherent and confused to justify any response.
     • Populuxe1 7.2.1

       14 June 2013 at 11:52 am

       Actaully the official statement says “The Assad regime could prove that its request for an investigation was not just a diversionary tactic by granting the U.N. fact-finding mission immediate and unfettered access to conduct on-site investigations to help reveal the truth about chemical weapons use in Syria. While pushing for a U.N. investigation, the United States has also been working urgently with our partners and allies as well as individuals inside Syria, including the Syrian opposition, to procure, share, and evaluate information associated with reports of chemical weapons use so that we can establish the facts and determine what took place.” http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/text-us-statement-syria-chemical-weapons-19396269
       But congratuations on finding a way to use the horrible death of 100-150 people in Syria as an excuse to spray around some more of your fanatical Jew hate, Morrissey.
       • Morrissey 7.2.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 12:24 pm

         … your fanatical Jew hate, Morrissey.

         What a deliriously funny example of desperation. You just can’t argue in good faith, can you?

         A word to the wise, my friend: when you are unable to formulate a coherent and civilized response, silence is the better option.

         That kind of mad rhetoric only makes you look bad. In fact, it’s so crazed that I’m not even offended, and I actually feel pity for you.
         • Populuxe1 7.2.1.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 2:35 pm

           No, I just get bored with you constantly making everything about Israel
           • Morrissey 7.2.1.1.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 2:51 pm

             No, I just get bored with you constantly making everything about Israel

             So I make “everything” about Israel, you say. Where in all of the debate about Edward Snowden, for instance, have I even mentioned Israel?

             The only reason I mentioned Israel was because one (admittedly substandard) poster raised the question of chemical weapons usage. Now, of course, you will probably pretend otherwise, but the fact is that only two regimes have used chemical weapons, and they have in both cases been defended by their U.S. sponsor with the most aggressive and cynical “diplomacy” imaginable. The U.S. even concocted a fantastic story that attempted to pin the blame for the Halabja massacre on another official enemy, Iran.

             There is no evidence that Syria has used chemical weapons—unlike Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and Israel.

             I am sure you know that—but you keep on defending that halfwit Brett Dale if you want.
             • Populuxe1 …

               14 June 2013 at 2:59 pm

               Probably because you haven’t thought of a way to connect Snowden and Israel. I wait with anticipation for the UN to confirm that Syria has used Sarin against it’s own people so I can flip you the middle finger and call you some choice names befitting the disgusting waste of protein you are.
               • Pascal's bookie …

                 14 June 2013 at 3:06 pm

                 I have no doubt you will.

                 Pretty much sums up your interest in things as far as I can see.

                 Ironic thopugh that you so look forward to using the deaths in syria as an excuse to indulge your, what was it, ‘semi-fictional persona’?
                 • Populuxe1 …

                   15 June 2013 at 2:21 pm

                   Actually that’s not what I’d doing at all – not any more so than Annette Sykes celebrated 9/11 or Hone Harawera gave a moving eulogy of Osama bin Laden. You just enjoy attacking me in your limp fashion because you don’t agree with me – I’ve never known you to debate a point.
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     15 June 2013 at 2:31 pm

                     That’s hilarious Pop.

                     You are one of the most pointless commenters here.

                     Here’s what you said:

                     I wait with anticipation for the UN to confirm that Syria has used Sarin against it’s own people so I can flip you the middle finger and call you some choice names befitting the disgusting waste of protein you are.

                     Looking forward to confirmation of CW use, purely so that you can continue your petty little squabble with Morrissey, who you greatly resemble, although he does actually make points, wrongheaded as they often might be.
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     15 June 2013 at 3:04 pm

                     “Looking forward to confirmation of CW use, purely so that you can continue your petty little squabble with Morrissey, who you greatly resemble, although he does actually make points, wrongheaded as they often might be.”

                     You are such a martyr – do you get no enjoyment out of bickering you holier than thou prude?
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     15 June 2013 at 3:30 pm

                     I’m not claiming any sort of martyr status Pop. That would be you having a big old cry because the mean old bookie calls you on your contentless shit.

                     And pointless bickering for the sake of it is, obviously, pointless.

                     But at least you’ve confirmed that’s what you come here for, which is obvious enough given the way you (t)roll.
               • richard …

                 14 June 2013 at 3:11 pm

                 @Populuxe1

                 Please don’t confuse the actions of the Israeli government with Judaism.
                 • Morrissey …

                   14 June 2013 at 7:08 pm

                   @Populuxe1
                   Please don’t confuse the actions of the Israeli government with Judaism.

                   He’s not confused, richard, he’s just dishonest.
                 • Populuxe1 …

                   15 June 2013 at 2:22 pm

                   I don’t. But yon Morrissey has a habit of lumping Jewish celebrities in with Likud at every available opportunity
                   • Morrissey …

                     15 June 2013 at 3:03 pm

                     I don’t. But yon Morrissey has a habit of lumping Jewish celebrities in with Likud at every available opportunity

                     Another lie. I do not “lump Jewish celebrities in with Likud”; some of the bravest, most outspoken critics of the outlaw Israeli regime have been, and are, Jewish celebrities.

                     A while ago you alleged, absurdly, that my pointing out the vile racism, the merciless lies and the brutal and possibly catastrophic defamation of a Palestinian Christian peace activist by Sacha Baron Cohen means that I was, ergo, attacking all Jews.

                     Over the last couple of years on this excellent forum, I have also expressed contempt for Barack Obama, Tau Henare, Winston Peters, the Japanese and Chinese governments, the Indonesian government, the American-backed Arab dictators, and many other criminals, con-men and impostors who have managed to get themselves into positions of inordinate and unjustified power.

                     Yet you, for some absolutely spurious reason, have consistently maintained that I am “fixated on Israel” and that by, say, reminding people that Israel used Phosphorus bombs on the civilians of Gaza, is to “spray around Jew hate”. Apparently, Israeli politicians and their hardline supporters, like Sacha Baron Cohen and Jerry Seinfeld and Maureen Lipman, are immune to criticism; to even point out their fanatical devotion to the Holy State is a crime.

                     You have no consistency, no integrity and no credibility.
               • Morrissey …

                 14 June 2013 at 7:14 pm

                 Probably because you haven’t thought of a way to connect Snowden and Israel.

                 Unbelievable! I publicly keelhaul you for your lack of integrity, your dishonesty, and your irrationality—and you’re back at it almost immediately. As I mentioned before, I do feel a degree of compassion for you, but your idiotic maliciousness sorely tries my patience.

                 I wait with anticipation for the UN to confirm that Syria has used Sarin against it’s [sic] own people so I can flip you the middle finger and call you some choice names befitting the disgusting waste of protein you are.

                 We’ll skip the unimaginative and incompetent abuse and go straight to your one point: you are evidently trying to suggest I support the Syrian regime. I do not. Only a fool, i.e. you, would draw that inference from anything I have written here or anywhere else.
                 • Populuxe1 …

                   15 June 2013 at 2:24 pm

                   Where did I ever suggest you supported the Syrian regime? I was commenting on your adamant refusal to entertain the likelihood that nerve gas had been used simply because of an all too common anti-US knee jerk reflex. You’re projecting somewhat
                   • Morrissey …

                     15 June 2013 at 2:44 pm

                     Where did I ever suggest you supported the Syrian regime?

                     I thought it might have been one of your little jests, like calling me a “Jew-hater”.

                     I was commenting on your adamant refusal to entertain the likelihood that nerve gas had been used simply because of an all too common anti-US knee jerk reflex.

                     A thoroughly discredited regime, at present engaged in two overt wars, both of which it started, and two more undeclared wars, in Yemen and Pakistan, is now making claims similar to the false claims it made to start the 2003 Iraq war. Yet you choose to describe all those who do not accept the unproven allegations of that rogue state as “all too common anti-US knee jerk reflex.” That’s not only trivialization, that’s flagrant misrepresentation.

                     You’re projecting somewhat

                     Projecting what?
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     15 June 2013 at 2:58 pm

                     “A thoroughly discredited regime, at present engaged in two overt wars, both of which it started, and two more undeclared wars, in Yemen and Pakistan, is now making claims similar to the false claims it made to start the 2003 Iraq war. Yet you choose to describe all those who do not accept the unproven allegations of that rogue state as “all too common anti-US knee jerk reflex.” That’s not only trivialization, that’s flagrant misrepresentation.”

                     And correlation is not causation

                     “Projecting what?”

                     I wish I knew. That’s a question for your therapist.
                 • Poission …

                   15 June 2013 at 2:58 pm

                   I wait with anticipation for the UN to confirm that Syria has used Sarin against it’s [sic] own people so I can flip you the middle finger and call you some choice names befitting the disgusting waste of protein you are.

                   Oops
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     15 June 2013 at 3:01 pm

                     Ok, Syrian rebels used it against Syrians. They’re both as bad as each other.
                   • Poission …

                     15 June 2013 at 3:12 pm

                     Now the US?UK is using the excuse of chemical weapons to validate the arming of Syrian rebel groups such as the Al Nusra Front an Al Qaeda affiliated organisation,

                     What could go wrong with this plan?.
                   • Rogue Trooper …

                     15 June 2013 at 4:47 pm

                     I made a link late last week, maybe from The Guardian, about the political entrepreneurship manipulating Shia / Sunni, and inter-sectarian oppositions, then there is always the memories of the mujahideen…
                     furthermore, there are the Iranian elections, all candidates competing in obedience to The Supreme Leader, seeking a more complicit Prez. from the single moderate, four conservative and one hardliner candidates.hmmm
   • freedom 7.3

     14 June 2013 at 2:42 pm

     In 2010, large amounts of information from numerous sources revealed the USA’s use of white phosphorus and depleted uranium shells in Iraq during various battles resulting from the USA’s illegal invasion in 2003. I don’t remember hearing any outrage about the illegal use of prohibited weapons from National. There was not a sound from their benches during or after the attacks, or later, when they were the Government and the truth became public. Coming to think of it they are still markedly reticent to comment on it.

     here is a press release about one of the studies
     http://www.thecbdf.org/ar/cbdf-reaserch-papers/61-international-journal-of-environmental-studies-and-public-health-ijerph-switzerland-genetic-damage-and-health-in-fallujah-iraq-worse-than-hiroshima-

     p.s. here is the Greens policy on such
     http://www.greens.org.nz/policy/globalaffairs
     section on global security 3 B
8. Rosetinted 8

   14 June 2013 at 12:12 pm

   A soldier’s body containing a live grenade and two bullets is brought back using three separate flights. Jonathan Coleman says Who could have imagined that this would happen. Well all of government really. Because they have fed us the story that our forces overseas are strictly there for reconstruction and to aid peace moves and then turned off their hearing aids off and pocketed their specs.

   A major fall from grace gets 12 months home detention and 250 hours community service (what will he do I wonder) hen he was involved with others in losing $millions from hard-working taxpaying citizens. I want equal justice for beneficiaries who are found guilty of defrauding taxpayers.

   Something odd happens every day. What’s odder is that nothing seems to be done to adjust the vision for a more practical and effective result.
9. Morrissey 9

   14 June 2013 at 12:16 pm

   Two democratic heroes;
   Two very different treatments by Radio New Zealand

   The Panel, Radio NZ National, Tuesday 11 June 2013
   Jim Mora, Tony Doe, David Farrar

   Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I could not listen after 4 o’clock, but if the combination of inanity and insincere unctuousness in the preshow chat was anything to go by, I’m kind of glad I missed the main show.

   This is what, according to Susan Baldacci and Jim Mora, the World is Talking About….

   1.) Do i-Phones have a soul?

   2.) Designated drivers are often just “less drunk” rather than sober.

   3.) An exciting new coffee cup design that eliminates cup rings.

   4.) Dogshit detectors in Spain.

   5.) Nelson Mandela’s health.

   This last topic supplied the unctuousness factor. Susan Baldacci announced that Mandela had rallied a little over the last twenty-four hours; Mora huffed and sighed: “That’s goodish news.” More huffing and sighing, then more unctuous expressions of goodwill for the Pope, who is also not in the best of health.

   This contrasts brutally with Mora’s behaviour after Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez died…

   The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 8 March 2013

   JIM MORA: Okay, just a couple of minutes left. Should John Key go to Hugo Chávez’s funeral or not? I can see why he’s NOT going. Ha ha ha ha!

   DAVID SLACK: Of course he should go. He’s been leaned on by the United States.

   MORA: But he’d be seen to be endorsing a revolutionary left wing leader?

   MARK INGALLS: I’m ashamed as a New Zealander that he’s not going.

   [Long uncomfortable pause….]

   MORA: [grudgingly] Mmmmkay.
10. Rosetinted 10

    14 June 2013 at 12:43 pm

    I looked up Stanley the explorer in Wikipedia and was amazed at his great career and adaptability from very harsh beginnings. But others who hadn’t harsh or poor beginnings to overcome don’t always succeed in reaching their potential as civilised, well-rounded human beings. Note Jameson heir of a whiskey manufacturer below and don’t forget the truly awful Belgian King Leopold II. This is from Stanley’s entry in wikipedia.

    In 1886, Stanley led the Emin Pasha Relief Expedition to “rescue” Emin Pasha, the governor of Equatoria in the southern Sudan.
    King Leopold II demanded that Stanley take the longer route, via the Congo River, hoping to acquire more territory and perhaps even Equatoria.
    After immense hardships and great loss of life, Stanley met Emin in 1888, charted the Ruwenzori Range and Lake Edward, and emerged from the interior with Emin and his surviving followers at the end of 1890.[25]
    But this expedition tarnished Stanley’s name because of the conduct of the other Europeans: British gentlemen and army officers. An army major was shot by a carrier, after behaving with extreme cruelty.
    James Jameson, heir to an Irish whiskey manufacturer, bought an 11-year-old girl and offered her to cannibals to document and sketch how she was cooked and eaten.[26] Stanley only found out when Jameson had died of fever.
    • richard 10.1

      14 June 2013 at 1:54 pm

      I’m not so sure that Stanley should be painted in such a good light. From the same Wikipedia article…

      However, statements by contemporaries of Stanley, such as Sir Richard Francis Burton, who claimed “Stanley shoots negroes as if they were monkeys”, paint a very different picture
      • Rosetinted 10.1.1

        14 June 2013 at 7:59 pm

        Richard I missed that – Stanley was a man of his time it seems. What a time, thumbs down.
11. Penny Bright 11

    14 June 2013 at 3:27 pm

    FYI

    For those who haven’t yet bothered to base their ‘pro-fluoride’ / ‘not-so-considered’ opinions on FACTS and EVIDENCE – you may be interested in this statement, from a leading UK Professor of Public Health?

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Statement by leading UK Professor of Public Health.
    Professor Peckham can be quoted as follows:-

    As a Professor and Health Researcher I find pro-fluoridationists’ characterisation of those opposed to fluoridation as “quacks” offensive.

    My work is supported by the UK Department of Health, I am a member of the UK Faculty of Public Health and have a number of funded research projects from the National Institutes for Health Research in the UK.

    I have consistently opposed fluoridation policy due to the poor evidence base on its effectiveness, genuine concerns about potential health problems (requiring further research) and, therefore, the fact that imposing fluoridation is unethical.

    Professor Stephen Peckham BSc. MA(Econ)., HMFPH
    Director, Centre for Health Services Studies

    Professor of Health Policy
    London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
    Director, Policy Research Unit in Commissioning and the Healthcare System
    University of Kent
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation’ campaigner
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?page_id=152
    • Rogue Trooper 11.1

      14 June 2013 at 3:32 pm

      Gluckman pronounced the last word for NZ;
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1306/S00035/sir-peter-gluckman-statement-of-flouride.htm
    • McFlock 11.2

      14 June 2013 at 4:21 pm

      IMO, the evidence base for its effectiveness is much better than the evidence base for any concerns.
      • Rogue Trooper 11.2.1

        14 June 2013 at 6:35 pm

        same. ‘see ya’ on the ‘morrow.
12. Rogue Trooper 12

    14 June 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Internal (upskirt) Affairs going on.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890527

    The Depletion of Natural Capital
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=10890145

    1 in 5 Pensioners still in paid employment; high cost of living, finance company collapses and divorce
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890446

    Snowden: China stays quiet.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10890430

    Europe Floods
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/europe/news/article.cfm?l_id=7&objectid=10889629
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      14 June 2013 at 4:35 pm

      Hilarious that Booz Allen tried to discredit Snowden by saying that his salary was only $122,000 per year, and Snowden claimed that he earnt $200,000 per year.

      But figure in the big annual bonuses and benefits that these private consultant types get…and $200,000 doesn’t sound unreasonable at all.
      • Rogue Trooper 12.1.1

        14 June 2013 at 6:27 pm

        just about to retrieve some Chinese perspective before biking home (cold snap).
13. Pascal's bookie 13

    14 June 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Here’s a good read, and a short one too:

    http://indigenoushistory.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/what-if-people-told-european-history-like-they-told-native-american-history/
    • weka 13.1

      14 June 2013 at 9:25 pm

      That’s good. The comments are interesting too.
    • marty mars 13.2

      15 June 2013 at 3:50 pm

      Thanks Pb I enjoyed that.
14. Rogue Trooper 14

    14 June 2013 at 6:32 pm

    On Chinese response to Snowden
    L.A Times
    http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-chinese-media-snowden-20130613,0,2845643.story
    from The New Yorker
    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/evanosnos/2013/06/snowdens-chinese-fans.html
    some Chinese net users arguing for asylum as a demonstration of State Power , or sending him to Russia
15. Rogue Trooper 15

    14 June 2013 at 6:34 pm

    10 000 Police to G8-ITV
16. Morrissey 16

    14 June 2013 at 6:54 pm

    “Ha ha ha, ho ho ho, he he he! Get him a sun lamp!!!”
    An unusually inane and depraved edition of The Panel
    Radio NZ National, Friday 14 June 2013
    Jim Mora, Lisa Scott, Chris Trotter

    JIM MORA: It’s Susan Baldacci, with What the Wooooorld’s Talking About! What have you got for us today?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: First up, Jim, is this Perth radio host who has been suspended for saying Julia Gillard’s husband is gay, because he is a hairdresser.
    JIM MORA: This is bizarre, isn’t it!
    LISA SCOTT: They’re attacking her because she’s a woman!
    CHRIS TROTTER: The same thing went on with Helen Clark. There were some TERRIBLE things said about her husband too.
    MORA: Yeah but they were more subterranean, weren’t they? In Australia this kind of thing is much more out in the open.
    CHRIS TROTTER: Well, Ian Wishart’s Investigate magazine has a much larger readership than one might think.
    MORA: But surely no mainstream, reputable media outlets in this country would TOLERATE that sort of thing would they?

    REALITY CHECK….
    Mora is either dishonest or has a memory like John Banks, i.e., he is dishonest. A few years ago on The Panel, one DOCTOR MICHAEL BASSETT worked himself up into a state of preternatural malice and snarled, absurdly, that Nicky Hager was a Holocaust-denier. I can think of nothing more despicable or extreme than uttering such a brutal and offensive falsehood on public radio—but Jim Mora did not say a word. Far from not tolerating “that sort of thing”, Mora’s guests on the Panel have included, as well as Bassett, such extreme and irrational figures as Nevil Breivik Gibson, Christine Spankin’ Rankin, and Garth Gaga George—to name just three off the top of my head. He has also respectfully interviewed such outré figures as the Sensible Sentencing Trust’s Garth “The Knife” McVicar. So much for his contention that no mainstream media outlets in this country would tolerate “that sort of thing.”

    MORA: What else have you got for us?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: Well, this latest study shows that we’re all a little bit paranoid. There are three kinds of paranoia, apparently—
    MORA: Three kinds of paranoia?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: [annoyed] Y-y-y-y-yes.

    She gives a brief survey of an article about paranoia she has just downloaded from the internet, and then the program takes a sinister turn….

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Julian Assange is a little bit paranoid.
    MORA: Oh yes? Hur, hur, hur, hur!
    SUSAN BALDACCI: Yeah, he claims that being holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy, he is deprived of his human right of getting enough sun.
    MORA: Is it a human right to get enough sun?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: That’s what he claims! He claims that being not allowed to leave London is violating his “human rights”.
    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    CHRIS TROTTER: Haw haw haw haw haw!
    SUSAN BALDACCI: He thinks he should be allowed out of his Ecuador embassy hideout to sunbathe.
    MORA: He can get out on the balcony, where he gave that speech!
    LISA SCOTT: Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha!
    CHRIS TROTTER: Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha! Or get him a sun lamp! THAT’s what he needs!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    SUSAN BALDACCI: He he he he he!
    TROTTER: I suspect the ambassador’s just sick of the sight of him! “Are you ever going to LEEEEAAAVE?”
    MORA: Sun lamp! Get him a sun lamp!!!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    MORA: Back after the news!

    ……4 p.m. News……

    WAYNE MOWAT: The time is nine minutes past four and due to circumstances beyond our control, we have some more music.

    Plays George Harrison’s “Apple Scruffs”, then something by Fat Freddy’s Drop. Wayne Mowat tells us there’s been a fire alarm so everyone has had to leave the building for a short time.

    They’re back in the studio at 4:15. Somebody—presumably not Mora himself—decides to ditch the discussion about fluoridation and the loons who have stampeded the Hamilton City Council into abandoning it. But they still go ahead with the entirely pointless, extended introductions of the guests. Trotter vapors on about Bloom’s Day, which is coming up in Auckland. “There’s a lot of laughing,” he promises, “and some weeping.”

    Then it’s on to the big, in-depth discussions, “the news of the day in a different way”….

    Topic No. 1:
    Labour’s hypocritical MPs accepting “hospitality” from Sky City….
    LISA SCOTT: giggles winsomely It just shows that politicians are people too.
    CHRIS TROTTER: When I heard David Shearer say he didn’t know they were there, I almost threw my cellphone at the wall. To say that you didn’t know just shows you have no control over your caucus.
    LISA SCOTT: Yeah, yeah, it’s not a good look. It’s a bad look, all right. I agree with you.

    Topic No. 2:
    Dunedin mayor Dave Cull’s email exchange about the Dalai Lama is to be released to the public….
    CHRIS TROTTER: With our increasing closeness to and reliance on China, there will be increasing pressure on university chancellors, mayors and all public officials to not have ANYTHING to do with the Dalai Lama.
    LISA SCOTT: Isn’t that sad!
    CHRIS TROTTER: It is, really. He’s a lovely chap!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    ….[4:30 News]….

    Soapbox….

    MORA: What have you been thinking about, Lisa Scott?
    LISA SCOTT: I’ve been thinking about something called UBF. Do you know what it is—Unintentional Bitch Face.
    CHRIS TROTTER: Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho!
    LISA SCOTT: It’s when you look grumpy without meaning to. Posh Spice has UBF.
    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! She does too! Ha ha ha ha ha!
    Sellotape behind the ears! This is cheap cosmetic surgery!
    LISA SCOTT: I’ve got UGF—Unintentionally Gormless Face.
    MORA: Posh DOES have a look doesn’t she! Okay, Chris Trotter, what’s been on your mind?

    CHRIS TROTTER: Oh, mine seems terribly worthy now, compared to that GREAT topic. But an interesting factoid I have just learned is that New Zealand now has more than one thousand people employed in security. Why do we need so many spooks?
    MORA: Do you remember when it was just the SIS? In those days you got the impression it was only fifty to a hundred people.
    CHRIS TROTTER: Yes, those were the trenchcoat days, trailing Dr. Bill Sutch. Now it’s all NCIS and
    MORA: We chortle, but if Big Data like Prism is going to conform and constrain and dominate our lives, then we NEED that expertise!

    The program ends with Trotter taking up his guitar and singing a melancholy tribute to the legendary Dunedin student pub, the Captain Cook, which is closing after 150 years.

    Unfortunately, this publicly funded yock-fest will continue on Monday…..
17. Colonial Viper 17

    14 June 2013 at 7:44 pm

    Pretend to be surprised: intelligence agencies share and swap sensitive data with thousands of private corporates

    Who would’ve thought.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html
    • vto 17.1

      14 June 2013 at 8:22 pm

      It’s the new norman

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