DPF oops

110 comments on “DPF oops ”

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1. felix 1

   13 June 2013 at 10:27 am

   What a week. First Hooten talks bullshit and now Farrar writes it.

   Shock I am.
   • Anne 1.1

     13 June 2013 at 10:47 am

     Another cup of tea and a lie down felix? 😛
   • lprent 1.2

     13 June 2013 at 10:50 am

     I’m testing a new monitoring system this week. It just blecked at me (like a Weber treecat) because this post is being read by more people than the front page is right now and it thought it was suspicious.

     Just the sewer rats I’d guess. They’ll get over the shock of criticism shortly. They have no memory for facts – just myths.

     *shrugs && turns down the alarm sensitivity*
     • r0b 1.2.1

       13 June 2013 at 12:11 pm

       Somebody promoted this to front page – wasn’t me!
       • lprent 1.2.1.1

         13 June 2013 at 12:17 pm

         I did 😈

         I’m observing it on analytics in real time because we’ll get a high number of a readers on this in a relatively short time.

         Besides the top story was from yesterday and we haven’t turned over the sewer in a while.
     • Pasupial 1.2.2

       14 June 2013 at 5:14 am

       @1prent
       “Bleeked” surely? Though I can barely stand to read Weber nowadays; what with his diatribes against Haven’s “dolists”, and all the other right wing memes he embeds in his books (plus I find the treecats a bit twee). However, I do like the more recent Mesa/ genetic slavery stuff, especially the; Congo series with Eric Flint (same universe, different feel – though still a fair bit of tweeness).

       Walter Jon Williams’; Praxis series, is pretty kick-arse space opera though, and unlike his; Metropolitan series, he actually finished it! Also, now that Iain Banks is gone from us; I find myself longing to fill in the gaps in my reading of the Culture series. But who has time for fiction these days?
       • lprent 1.2.2.1

         14 June 2013 at 8:57 am

         Weber is like that. Sucks down a history like French politics and thinks about it shallowly – witness his obsession with aristocrats. He is better in something like thew safehold series.

         I just read fast otherwise I couldn’t monitor this site. But I usually read a fiction book a day. Reading in bed on the nexus 7 in the middle of the night when I wake up seems to be my forte at present. Annoys Lyn.
   • halfcrown 1.3

     13 June 2013 at 6:53 pm

     “What a week. First Hooten talks bullshit and now Farrar writes it.

     Shock I am.”

     I’m not. It is par for the course for these right wing prats
   • David H 1.4

     14 June 2013 at 9:11 am

     And you are shocked ?? WHY??

     Hootens horseshit is my weekly comedic reading. And Kiwislop only when I need to feel dirty, without playing in the mud with my 2 year old. Whaleslime only by mistake do go there.
2. BLiP 2

   13 June 2013 at 10:29 am

   ‘

   Heh! Nice to catch Farrar out in so obvious a lie. Usually, his manipulations are a little more subtle in that he uses a subtext to promote a meme then amplified by his slavering pack of KiwiBog poodles.

   Serious point though – comment moderation at Kiwiblog is definitely needed.

   Oh, I dunno. Its kinda useful to have the thinking processes and internal dialogue that goes on amongst National Ltd™ voters out in the open.
   • Jackal 2.1

     13 June 2013 at 10:47 am

     Agree… Anybody reading through Kiwibogs comments would get a good idea of the type of person who supports right wing policies, which can only work to the lefts advantage.
     • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

       13 June 2013 at 12:21 pm

       And yet the Left wing seems to lose the argument almost always. And even when it does win an occasional argument it seems to be via a Right wing version of a Left wing argument.
       • Rogue Trooper 2.1.1.1

         13 June 2013 at 1:39 pm

         Coming In From The Cold
         (it’s you. it’s you I’m talking to).

         Richard Sennett
         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sennett
         Cities, Labour, Ethnography, Social Theory.
         The Fall of Public Man
         Together. The Rituals, Pleasures and Politics of Cooperation The Craftsman.
         One of the challenges, only being able to cooperate with people like ourselves.
         The skills to cooperate with those who are different requires more than a ‘good heart”, although they are teachable and can be promoted in the dense populations of cities.

         There are short-comings to the ‘declarative’ statement, in contrast to the dialogical forms which occur when employing the ‘subjunctive’ and leaving a space for ambiguity; curiosity before aggression. The skills learnt in the physical crafts promote attention to that outside of the self.

         “Too much emphasis in left-wing politics on ‘solidarity’, singing from the same hymn sheet; ‘the Party’ vs ‘the social left’. Exemplified in The Tea Party where it is a weakness to consider other points of view.”

         A need for the social left not to abolish differences but work alongside. The US Communist Party tried to extinguish difference. Sennett argues for a dialogical openess by the social left.

         Americans, apparently, know longer know how to cooperate with those who are different, seen in a revulsion towards the immigrant tradition. (see that fool Peters on Campbell Live; tax-payer pays for his salary and travel).

         Gated community now the most popular form of housing in the world.
         People have always been tribal. This tribal impulse is challenged by modrn economic, material reality, leading to indifference, eg, superficial forms of cooperation in work / labour, with each watching their own backs.(consider the ‘aesthetic attitude’, independent of any motivations due to utility, economic value, moral judgement. or particular personal emotion, i.e experiencing the ‘object’ for it’s own sake; a disinterested ‘distanced’ attitude, which alternately may produce an episode of exceptional elevation-Schopenhauer).

         Reality is not transparent to us; there is a totally-other, non-identical that eludes our concepts. Everything immediate is mediated via the social preformation of contingent, individual experience.- Adorno.

         Sennett contends that the ‘solution’ is not solidarity, eschews the notion of a fixed-point-of-view; prefers ‘wandering’, yet the rewards of wandering diminish with age; resolution is required.

         “Another disturbing trend is the rising number of middle-class families coming to the Salvation Army for assistance”.
         -Rhondda Middleton, Operations Manager, West Auckland Ministries.

         “…when housing prices eventually crash, which they will”. -Bill English Q.3,QT, yesterday.

         “You do it again, won’t you ever learn -Everclear
   • tc 2.2

     13 June 2013 at 10:50 am

     agree with Blip, you don’t filter sewage before it reaches the treatment plant. DPF has become quite the smug little taxpayer troughing ‘commentator’ with an ego that keeps on growing.

     A bad day for DPF is one where he doesn’t get a mention/attention or manage to stir/spin something his backers way.
   • Wayne 2.3

     13 June 2013 at 7:17 pm

     It would have been a mistake by DPF, not a deliberate lie.

     There is a difference. A lie is a statement you make, knowing it to be false. A mistake is when you make a statement thinking it to be correct, but in fact it is not.

     Of course both statements are incorrect, but the difference in motive is what matters.

     DPF does not go about stating or writing deliberate mistruths. In this case his recollection of the law was wrong, which I thought at the time I read his post, since I have used similiar electoral advertising. And we did check the law at the time it was used.

     As a general point most politicians make mistakes, they don’t lie. When they do they loose their job.

     Think of the pressure of a radio interview, or a media conference. It is impossible to remember everything that you have previously said, or who you met, or what you have read (at least it is for me). So in answer to an unanticipated question you say what you think is true, but you are proven wrong in your recollection. Is that a lie or a mistake?

     Mind you you don’t want to get a reputation for making these kinds of mistakes, so you need to be well briefed for media events.
     • BLiP 2.3.1

       14 June 2013 at 7:59 am

       ‘

       I take your point about mistakes vs lies. In his rush to take a pot shot at Labour, Farrar may well have made the mistake of not checking his facts prior to publication. While I can understand that error being made by commentators – goodness knows, I’ve made a mistake or two myself – its not a good look when (a) its a fact someone employed in this arena and even deemed to be something of an expert worthy of public consultation should know, and, (b) it appears as a post. Accordingly, I retract my assertion that Farrar was lying. This time.

       Perhaps you could help me with a point in relation to your observation that . . .

       . . . As a general point most politicians make mistakes, they don’t lie. When they do they loose their job . . .

       . . . which of the following John Key statements could reasonably be described as mistakes as opposed to outright lies:

       – I promise to always be honest

       – We’re not proposing to change the Employment Relations Act in a way that weakens unions

       – we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs

       – there’s no way one in five New Zealanders will lose their jobs

       – we are not going to cut working for families

       – I firmly believe in climate change and always have

       – We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand’s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.

       – National Ltd™ will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges

       – I didn’t know about The Bretheren election tactics

       – If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it

       – I can’t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour

       – Tranzrail shares

       – I did not mislead the House (1)

       – Lord Ashcroft

       – National Ltd™ would not have sent troops into Iraq

       – Standard & Poors credit downgrade

       – the double-down grade doesn’t really matter and its only about private sector debt

       – I did not mislead the House (2)

       – I didn’t say I want wages to drop

       – I can’t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage

       – the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.

       – the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs

       – no I have never heard of Whitechapel

       – I won’t raise GST

       – people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST

       – the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase

       – the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government

       – no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine

       – I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine

       – I did not mislead the House (3)

       – capping, not cutting the public service

       – raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs

       – north of $50 a week

       – privatisation won’t significantly help the economy

       – wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones

       – I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London

       – Tariana Turia is “totally fine” with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal

       – Kiwisaver

       – National Ltd™ is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector

       – tax cuts won’t require additional borrowing

       – New Zealand does not have a debt problem

       – New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting

       – the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd™ government

       – It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy

       – National Ltd™ has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria

       – the price of goods and services has risen by 6 percent since the last election, while the after-tax average wage has actually gone up by 16 percent

       – no, although its a week ago and here I am being interviewed on television about them, I havn’t seen Gerry Brownlee’s comments regarding demolitions in Christchurch and which caused such outrage, but I can talk all about them

       – our SAS soldiers were not involved in the Kabul Hotel gunfight

       – the use of the Vela brother’s helicopter was required so I could attend meetings relating to national/international security concerns

       – the DPS makes the decision about accompanying the Prime Minister or not, I had no choice but to take them on holiday to Hawaii

       – I did not mislead the House (4)

       – oh, maybe our SAS soldiers were in the Kabul hotel gun fight but they weren’t wounded by friendly fire

       – New Zealand has lost $12 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . oh, it might actually be around $15 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . Blinglish said what?

       – 10,000 houses will have to be demolished in Christchurch due to the earthquake

       – 14,000 new apprentices will start training over the next five years, over and above the number previously forecast

       – Our amendments to the ETS ensure we will continue to do our fair share internationally

       – we are committed to honouring our Kyoto Protocol obligations

       – any changes to the ETS will be fiscally neutral

       – New Zealand has grown for eight of the last nine quarters”

       – National Ltd™ will tender out the government banking contract

       – we will be back in surplus by 2014-15

       – Nicky Hager’s book “Other People’s Wars” is a work of fiction

       – unemployment is starting to fall

       – we have created 60,000 jobs

       – we have created 45,000 jobs

       – the 2011 Budget will create in the order of 170,000 jobs

       – I don’t know if I own a vineyard

       – no, I did not mislead the House (5)

       – the Isreali spy killed in the Christchurch quake had “only one” passport

       – the Police will not need to make savings by losing jobs

       – first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012

       – first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in September

       – I did not mislead the House (6)

       – I voted to keep the drinking age at 20

       – New Zealand is 100% Pure

       – I’ve been prime minister for four years, and it’s really 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year

       – baseball in New Zealand is attracting more government support

       – the decision to buy brand new BMWs was made by the Department of Internal Affairs without reference either to their minister or to me

       – I didn’t have a clue that Ministerial Services, which I am in charge of, was going to buy brand new BMWs

       – even though two of my ministers knew all about it, I didn’t have a clue that brand new BMWs were being bought.

       – even though my Chief of Staff met with officials to discuss purchase of the the brand new BMWs, I didn’t have a clue

       – even though I personally signed papers discussing the matter, I still didn’t have a clue

       – Labour forced us into buying the brand new BMWs, its their fault

       – ummm, look, sorry about that BMW thing , it was because I was so upset about the death of a New Zealand soldier, and Julia Gillard was visiting too

       – the public demanded that we change the labour laws for The Hobbit

       – “The Hobbit” created 3000 new jobs

       – we have delivered 800 extra doctors in the public service

       – I did not mislead the House (7)

       – I wasn’t working at Elders when the sham foreign exchange deals took place

       – I was starting School Certificate exams in 1978

       – I don’t know who arrived on the CIA jet to visit the spies I am responsible for

       – reducing barriers to property developers will increase the availability of affordable housing

       – Labour left the economy in poor shape

       – forecasts show unemployment will fall

       – we have closed the wage gap with Australia by $27

       – Ngati Porou and Whanau Apanui are not opposed to mining

       – I have not had any meetings with Media Works

       – our [NZ’s] terms of trade remain high

       – the TPP is an example of democracy

       – National Ltd™ will use the proceeds of state asset sales to invest in other public assets, like schools and hospitals

       – New Zealand troops will be out of Afghanistan by April 2013

       – overseas investment in New Zealand adds to what New Zealanders can invest on their own

       – overseas investment in New Zealand creates jobs, boosts incomes, and helps the economy grow

       – National Ltd™ will build 2000 houses over the next two years

       – there are only 4 New Zealand SAS soldiers in Bamiyan and all working in the area of logistics and planning only

       – selling state assets will give cash equity to those companies

       – the Sky City deal will provide 900 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs

       – the Sky City deal doesn’t mean more pokies

       – there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal

       – my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal

       – SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins

       – any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process

       – Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land

       – I did not mislead the House (8)

       – the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal

       – there’s a 50/50 chance the Hobbit is going off shore unless we do something

       – David Shearer has signed up for the purchase of shares in Mighty River

       – Solid Energy asked the government for a $1 billion capital investment

       – fracking has been going safely on in Taranaki for the past 30 years without any issues

       – no frontline positions will be lost at DOC

       – Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job

       – I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher

       – I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position

       – I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher

       – for 30 years, or three decades, I didn’t have any dinners or lunches or breakfasts with Ian Fletcher

       – I did not mislead the House (9)

       – No, I did not say we would follow the US and Australia into a war against North Korea

       – I paid for that lunch and I’ve got the credit card bill to prove it

       – I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number

       – I did not mislead the house (10)

       – I am honest and upfront

       – cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers

       – the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident

       – New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps

       – the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear

       – the only way net new jobs can be created is by private investors putting their money into businesses in New Zealand

       – an increase in the number of people looking for work indicates that confidence is returning to the economy

       – the 10 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand who are the top earners pay 76 percent of all net personal tax.

       – I did not mislead the House (11)

       – the substantial wage growth under Labour was eroded by inflation

       – National Ltd™’s 2010 tax changes were fiscally neutral

       – I did not mislead the House (12)

       – the bulk of New Zealanders earn between $45,000 and $75,000 a year

       – Pike River Coal did not put profits and its production ahead of the safety and lives of those 29 workers.

       – Radio Live had sought advice from the Electoral Commission about my show just before the election

       – it is because of National Ltd™’s policies that the price of fresh fruit and vegetables has dropped.

       – the length-of-the-country cycleway will create 4000 jobs.

       – police training for next year has not been cancelled

       – National Ltd™ has only cut back-office jobs in the health service

       – The Crown’s dividend stream from the Meridians, the Mighty Rivers of the world is large and there is no motivation to sell assets; actually we’re about creating assets not selling assets.”

       – National believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should . . . Protect employees and employers.

       – I am not trying to tackle such issues in a “fearful” way ahead of the next election

       – Wellington City is dying.

       – the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions

       – because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law ammendments, parliamentary urgency is required

       – the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect prive enterprise

       – it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police

       – National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law

       – National Ltd™ has been working on a number of things with New Zealand First on a number of things one of which has a financial component but I can’t talk about it

       – the best way to get growth in the economy is to reduce public debt

       – New Zealand mum and dad investors will be our number one priority in the allocation of Mighty River shares

       – we won’t let “cowboy” oil exploration companies operate here in New Zealand.

       – the food in schools programme is in the 2013 budget

       – the meat exports are being held up in China because of technical issues and in relation to the Chinese looking to trace counterfeit meat

       its notoriously difficult to win three elections in a row

       – I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty
       • David H 2.3.1.1

         14 June 2013 at 9:18 am

         It’s a long and damning list Blip but I an sure Key and co are quite proud of it. It’s the sort of thing that needs to be got out to all NZ and not just us select few who have found our way here. (By few I mean in comparison to the population of NZ)
         • BLiP 2.3.1.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 9:24 am

           ‘

           Copyleft applies – please distribute far and wide.
       • Wayne 2.3.1.2

         14 June 2013 at 3:19 pm

         Most of these are debatable propositions, where the govt will have one view and the opposition another.
         • fender 2.3.1.2.1

           14 June 2013 at 3:31 pm

           Maybe a Navman could help you find your way.
     • tracey 2.3.2

       14 June 2013 at 11:51 am

       and no matter how well briefed the PM is he still manages to lie, or is it make mistakes. he is very accident prone in that case dontcha think?
3. Gosman 3

   13 June 2013 at 11:17 am

   The filth on the comment section at Kiwiblog would compare favourably to some of the stuff posted here (although I do think the moderators do a decent job generally) and especially The Daily Blog. The Daily Blog has such a partisan moderating policy that posts accusing people of performing illegal behaviour with no evidence are allowed to stand so long as the person being attacked is seen as being an ‘enemy’ of the left (or at least the main moderator there).
   • TheContrarian 3.1

     13 June 2013 at 11:42 am

     The Daily Blog’s moderation is piss poor. I pointed out a glaring error which wasn’t approved (but the fawning was subsequently allow.)

     I find some of the comments at Kiwiblog disturbing though.
     • Sanctuary 3.1.1

       13 June 2013 at 4:07 pm

       thedailyblog is a great idea which will be destroyed by Martyn Bradbury.
       • Jackal 3.1.1.1

         13 June 2013 at 7:06 pm

         I very much doubt it… The Daily Blog’s moderation process puts the onus on the authors of the posts to moderate. This is obviously done to ensure that comments are approved or unapproved as expediently as possible.

         In this way, and considering that there’s around 43 contributors, The Daily Blog’s moderation process is probably one of the fastest of all major blogs in New Zealand, while ensuring that comments are lawful and retain integrity through proper moderation.

         You’re clearly talking out your ass Sanctuary.
         • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

           14 June 2013 at 9:49 am

           I call BS on that. I have had posts sitting awaiting moderation for hours before they eventually appear. On top of that I have had numerous posts not appearing even though they are both on topic and not abusive. The moderation policy of the Daily blog will slowly, but surely, kill the blog off just as it did Tumeke.
   • r0b 3.2

     13 June 2013 at 11:50 am

     The filth on the comment section at Kiwiblog would compare favourably to some of the stuff posted here

     Be honest Gossman, although there can be occasional stupid comments on any blog (so yes I’m sure you can find a few here), the sheer volume of vile comments on Kiwiblog and Whaleoil is appalling.
     • Gosman 3.2.1

       13 June 2013 at 3:02 pm

       Depends on your political viewpoint.

       I can understand why people on the left get upset with many comments on right leaning blogs bemoaning dole bludging layabouts or to poor people as somehow undeserving of sympathy. I too find these distasteful and frankly unhelpful when discussing possible solutions to political problems.

       However there are plenty of nasty and vile comments directed towards wealthy or right leaning people here and on say The Daily Blog. Even moderate commentators who dare to disagree with the general thrust of an argument are pounced upon as somehow indicative of their lack of intellectual nous.

       I can understand this is just part and parcel of the games people play on comments boards on political blog sites but it doesn’t meana siute like this is any less like a sewer than say Kiwiblog.
       • TheContrarian 3.2.1.1

         13 June 2013 at 3:46 pm

         What I notice with Kiwiblog though is Farrar himself is fairly reasonable and moderate in tone.

         Some of his posters though…
         • fender 3.2.1.1.1

           13 June 2013 at 4:01 pm

           Oh yeah, much like your courtesy with Felix yesterday.
           • TheContrarian 3.2.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2013 at 4:31 pm

             He gives as good as he gets.
         • Mcflock 3.2.1.1.2

           13 June 2013 at 4:04 pm

           Indeed.
           So it’s never him being the rabid nutbar – he just provides a safe haven for them.
           • TheContrarian 3.2.1.1.2.1

             13 June 2013 at 4:34 pm

             If I ran a blog (which I attempted but failed miserably at) I wouldn’t post half the shit some of those crazies post.
             I personally don’t engage in guilt by association when it comes to Farrar and his commentators, but I often wonder what more influential people think of the comments.
             Do they even read the comments section?
             • Mcflock …

               13 June 2013 at 5:29 pm

               It’s not “guilt by association”, it’s “guilt by publication”. He’s not the cousin or long-suffering spouse/schoolmate of these folk, he simply refuses to moderate comments his site publishes online.

               And he’s not leaving it there for the influential people, but the easily influenced. Folk who think that bigotry and stupidity is normal. He provides a safe haven for that community. I don’t care whether he does it intentionally or is under the impression that “freedom of speech” means “forced to publish other people’s drivel”. He provides a little corner of NZ to keep the bigots and bene-bashers safe. This keeps support for national, who are screwing over most of the country and (more importantly) chipping away at the thousand year old foundations of democracy and liberty.

               So the penguin can get fucked.
               • weka …

                 13 June 2013 at 8:41 pm

                 +1000
               • Pasupial …

                 14 June 2013 at 5:27 am

                 @ McFlock

                 Actually, given his appearance and personality; I doubt that DPF can get fucked. That’s why he does what he does!
                 • McFlock …

                   14 June 2013 at 2:00 pm

                   now, now, there’s someone for everyone.

                   Even if it is their sistercousinstepmum. (/satire – because Tories Need Tags)
             • Frank Macskasy …

               14 June 2013 at 9:31 am

               @ Gosman,

               The filth on the comment section at Kiwiblog would compare favourably to some of the stuff posted here (although I do think the moderators do a decent job generally) and especially The Daily Blog.

               Rubbish. You’re simply annoyed that your attempt to de-construct other people’s comments through inane, endless, rhetorical questions, fall flat because people no longer buy into your tactics.

               I also note your vulgar remarks about certain bloggers on rightwing blogsites that you haven’t the gumption to make here or on TDB.
               • Gosman …

                 14 June 2013 at 9:51 am

                 Frank, good of you to join us considering it was YOUR post that this comment appeared on. Perhaps you would care to explain why you felt it acceptable to allow someone to make unsubstantiated allegations about David Farrar and even to comment on them as if they were accepted as fact.
                 • Frank Macskasy …

                   14 June 2013 at 9:59 am

                   .

                   Frank, good of you to join us considering it was YOUR post that this comment appeared on. Perhaps you would care to explain why you felt it acceptable to allow someone to make unsubstantiated allegations about David Farrar and even to comment on them as if they were accepted as fact

                   Considering I didn’t make the comment – no, I would not.

                   Best you address your question to the author of that comment.

                   And I didn’t “allow” any such comment. You seem to be labouring under a misconception.

                   Anyway, I thought you rightwingers supported the right of free speech? Are you now saying everyone’s comments should be vetted by some Authority for accuracy? How does that tie in with Nisbet’s racist cartoons? (Which you supported to be published.)

                   Did you ask Al Nisbet “why he felt it acceptable to allow someone to make unsubstantiated allegations about Pacifica people and even to comment on them as if they were accepted as fact”? Hmmm?
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 10:59 am

                     You are the moderator of your own posts are you not? That is what Jackal has implied on this thread.
             • Frank Macskasy …

               14 June 2013 at 9:42 am

               I personally don’t engage in guilt by association when it comes to Farrar and his commentators, but I often wonder what more influential people think of the comments.
               Do they even read the comments section?

               I occassionally read Farrar’s posts – but not the comments that follow. In my opinion, the majority are written by poorly educated yokels who simply repeat bigotry ad nauseum.

               There’s only so much ill-informed prejudice one can read before coming to the conclusion that the human race is doomed, and thank god talking apes will one day rule the planet…
               • TheContrarian …

                 14 June 2013 at 10:15 am

                 I read Farrar’s post with the same frequency as I read posts here.
                 It isn’t intellectual to lock oneself in an ideological echo chamber but I only read and comment on particular threads.
                 As soon as I see Maori referred to as ‘stoneagers’ I know I have read too far…
           • Gosman 3.2.1.1.2.2

             13 June 2013 at 4:48 pm

             Much like Selwyn Manning on The Daily Blog.

             I was going to state the same of Martyn Bradbury but realised it would be completely wrong given he is a rabid nutbar.
             • Mcflock …

               13 June 2013 at 5:42 pm

               lol

               Took a few moments to skim through posts on each site (fully cloistered and wearing surfing rubbers on KB). The comments of “Lucia Maria” and Redbaiter alone are without comparison on DB, as far as I have seen. Don’t really do DB (and the beer sucks, too :)).

               Got anything worse from Daily Blog than “You sound like a Muslim, blaming everything that is going wrong in New Zealand on women” (as LM said on KB)?

               gladly anticipating your reply 🙂
               • Gosman …

                 13 June 2013 at 5:48 pm

                 I’ve already given you one example. There are also a bunch of commenters who express the view of sticking it to the rich and how evil they are.
                 • Mcflock …

                   13 June 2013 at 5:55 pm

                   You think accusations of vandalism are worse than outright racism?

                   And the latter argument is only bad if the rich are not, in fact, evil (or at the very least shameless profiteers from the injustices caused by capitalism).

                   Fascinating glimpse into the priorities of your mind, though.
                 • Frank Macskasy …

                   14 June 2013 at 9:38 am

                   @ Gosman,

                   There are also a bunch of commenters who express the view of sticking it to the rich and how evil they are.

                   Whoa there, sonny boy. Back up that goat you rode in on!

                   Al Nisbet recently posted a couple of rqacist cartoons and rightwingers like you were only too eager to jump up and down screaming “free speech! free speech!” Any criticism of his racist cartoons was labelled as an attack on “freedom of expreession” – without actually addressing the merits of the cartoons themselves.

                   In effect, resorting to the “free speech:” mantra is an attempt to nullify criticism and close down debate.

                   Now you’re bagging people who use free speech “who express the view of sticking it to the rich and how evil they are”?!

                   What about free speech?

                   Or does that count only if one is a racist?
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 9:54 am

                     You really don’t get it do you Frank. Noone is calling for people’s rights to express their vulgar views to be supporessed. We are discussing whether particular blogs have a tendency to sewer discussions. Thge Daily Blog meets this criteria for the reasons I have given.
                 • Frank Macskasy …

                   14 June 2013 at 9:44 am

                   You think accusations of vandalism are worse than outright racism?

                   +1
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 9:55 am

                     How come you never addressed any of my points I raised on that thread Frank? You replied to the person making the allegation though and even discussed the matter further.
                   • Frank Macskasy …

                     14 June 2013 at 10:04 am

                     How come you never addressed any of my points I raised on that thread Frank?

                     Three possible reasons, Gos;

                     1. I didn’t see your “points”,

                     2. Your “points” were repetitive,

                     3. Your “points” were repetitive AND boring.

                     Hope that clarifies those issues that have occupied your daily thoughts since then…

                     Anyway. Time to get back to my own blogging. Feel free to drop by my blogsite and have a squizz… 😉
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 10:12 am

                     BS Frank.

                     I asked you why you allowed someone on a thread you started on The Daily Blog to make unsubstantiated allegations of illegal behaviour by someone else and why you even commented on them as if they were a fact.

                     These points are quite clear and are not boring. They might be repetitive but only because you fail to address them.

                     You are entitled to run away if you like.
                   • Rogue Trooper …

                     14 June 2013 at 2:12 pm

                     I pop by from time to time Frank; headlines grab my attention. 😉
     • Gosman 3.2.2

       13 June 2013 at 3:13 pm

       I’ll give you an example from the Daily Blog to illustrate this point R0b.

       I have already mentioned the basics of it. On one of the threads at the Daily Blog they were discussing David Farrar’s comments about Martyn Bradbury, (seemingly ignoring the numerous times Mr Bradbury has disparaged David Farrar), being a paid consultant of Mana.

       One of the comments on that thread stated that David Farrar and Cameron Slater went on a blogging tour together (Shock Horror!) during the 2008 election campaign. During this trip the commentator made the allegation that they deliberated damaged election signage of opposition parties and gleefully poster about it online.

       Now this accusation of deliberate vandalism made against someone was allowed to pass the moderation standards of The Daily Blog. In fact the writer of the thread in question even followed up on the point without even asking for evidence of where the poster got his information from. I on the other hand had a number of posts asking for actual evidence of this action denied.

       The question for you is which is the worse sewer?
       • Pascal's bookie 3.2.2.1

         13 June 2013 at 5:04 pm

         erm, the one that’s quite regularly is filled with proto-fascist bile?

         What you’re talking about is bias, and sure, that sucks. But it’s not the same thing that people talk about WRT kiwiblog.
         • Gosman 3.2.2.1.1

           13 June 2013 at 5:39 pm

           No I’m not. I discussing nasty, abusive, and basIcally defamatory views expressed by people in the comments section. I gave you an example of one such comment on The Daily blog. Care to explain why making allegations about people’s behaviour without evidence is not deserving of being classed as being in the gutter?
           • Pascal's bookie 3.2.2.1.1.1

             13 June 2013 at 6:06 pm

             Gos, there are those sorts of comments on KB as well. Endlessly.

             But there are also long threads ernestly discussing what percentage of the population can be muslim before they start to take over, and they existential threat posed by the socialist leftists appeasers who reduse to accept that Muslims are all essentially in cahoots and planning to take ocer our precious freedoms.

             Or take this comment:

             http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/03/the_euro_problem.html#comment-1109909

             We’ll just throw in a bit of support for Breivik. What’s the response from Farrar or the comment community? Two ticks up. that’s it.

             And that’s not uncommon. There are numerous regular commenters who hang out there and spout this stuff.

             It’s not the same as what goes on here. What goes on here, goes on there as well, but there’s another level going on over there as well. And it’s tolerated.
             • Mcflock …

               13 June 2013 at 6:13 pm

               Oh my god. I have to correct you there, pb: the commenter did say that Breivik may not have acted on those concerns in the “best way” … fucksake.

               Well this little interlude has reminded me why I don’t go there, in addition to the lsa cookie thing.

               I need a shower.
               • Jackal …

                 13 June 2013 at 8:19 pm

                 I’m glad somebody remembered that… Farrar and Slater are using outdated LSO BTW. Dicks!
             • weka …

               13 June 2013 at 9:17 pm

               “It’s not the same as what goes on here. What goes on here, goes on there as well, but there’s another level going on over there as well. And it’s tolerated.”

               That was a useful analysis. I haven’t read enough at KB to really get my head around the differences, but often when people say here is as bad as there it’s been hard to combat that idea.
             • Gosman …

               14 June 2013 at 10:09 am

               How is this sentiment any different to the person here who expressed a view that the Mad Butcher should basically hurry up and die due to him having the temerity of saying he thought John Key was a good bloke?
               • Pascal's bookie …

                 14 June 2013 at 10:41 am

                 Both are awful, but in different ways.

                 ‘Hurry up and die’ isn’t saying ‘Good on that person for killing a swag of young people’.

                 In the latter case, the the guy didn’t see any need at all to wait for them to die, so he went out and started with the pop pop pop.
                 • Gosman …

                   14 June 2013 at 11:35 am

                   I can’t believe you are even trying to defend the ‘Hurry up and die’ comment made here. The point you seem to be missing is that there are commentators both on left leaning blogs and right leaning ones that express incredibly distasteful and vulgar views. Trying to act like they are more prevalent on Kiwiblog flies in the face of what I see.
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     14 June 2013 at 11:48 am

                     “I can’t believe you are even trying to defend the ‘Hurry up and die’ comment made here.”

                     You don’t have to believe it, indeed please don’t, because I’m not.

                     I said:

                     “Both are awful, but in different ways”

                     I’ll be more explicit:

                     I codemn both these awful things, indeed I condemn all things that are awful, this is my position going forward, when I say something is awful, I thereby condemn it.

                     I condemn both the deliberate sale of rotten fruit and genocide, but I maintain that they are not the same.
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 12:25 pm

                     A vulgar and distasteful comment is a vulgar and distasteful comment regardless of how vulgar or distasteful you think the topic it is related to is. That is my point. If I stated I hope your mother dies a horrible death that is just as out of order then if I said the same thing about your entire family or even your entire cultural group you belong to.
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     14 June 2013 at 12:43 pm

                     Are you saying there are bad things and good things, and that all bad things are equally bad?
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 1:14 pm

                     No. I’m stating that vulgar and distasteful comments are pretty much the same. What they are about might vary in the degree of nastiness but that is not what we are discussing here. Calling you a douchebag is just as uncalled for than if I called you a Child molester. Trying to argue that it is somehow worse calling you a Child molester ignores the fact that it is gutter behaviour doing either.
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     14 June 2013 at 1:35 pm

                     But saying Brievik had the right idea, isn’t ‘calling someone names’.

                     It’s a totally different thing.
                   • felix …

                     14 June 2013 at 1:53 pm

                     “Calling you a douchebag is just as uncalled for than if I called you a Child molester. Trying to argue that it is somehow worse calling you a Child molester ignores the fact that it is gutter behaviour doing either.”

                     Noted for future reference, douchebag.
                   • Gosman …

                     14 June 2013 at 5:49 pm

                     Good to see you confirm the opinion that leftist blog’s are just as capable of descending to comments better suited to the sewer Felix.
           • Pascal's bookie 3.2.2.1.1.2

             13 June 2013 at 6:10 pm

             I won’t even look at this thread, just going from the number of comments and the topic.

             I wonder what it looks like? I wonder what the up and down votes look like?

             http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/05/the_london_attack.html

             Prepared to bet that Islam as a whole gets blamed a lot, and that it gets discussed in terms of an existential threat, and that liberal politics is what is to blame,and that ‘inevitably’ things are going to get worse as ‘patriots’ will be ‘forced’ to ‘sort it out’.
         • Gosman 3.2.2.1.2

           13 June 2013 at 5:44 pm

           Btw would you expect any replies you made to someone spouting proto-fascist bile on Kiwiblog to be blocked? I would appreciate an honest answer to that question.
           • Pascal's bookie 3.2.2.1.2.1

             13 June 2013 at 5:58 pm

             No, because Farrar doesn’t moderate unless someone on twitter points crap out to him. But like I said, so what? that’s about bias, which is not what we are talking about.
       • Paul 3.2.2.2

         13 June 2013 at 10:46 pm

         You’re arguing for the sake of it and in spite of evidence.
         Not the cleverest debating strategy.
         • Pasupial 3.2.2.2.1

           14 June 2013 at 5:48 am

           @ Paul

           What do you expect; Gosman’s hardly the cleverest debater! His strategy seems to rely on his; refusal to shut up, until everyone who dares disagree loses the will to live. I find now my eyes just glaze over whenever I see his key-name, and then I skip to the next comment.

           My guess is that he’s on auto-block on The Daily Blog, which is why he’s so pissed, and spewing his bile here. I’ve never had any problems making comments over there; though I do tend to rely on reasoned argument, and facts (plus the occasional bit of bitchiness). The quality of the posts can admittedly be a bit patchy at times; but it’s a site that presents views from many different authors and sources – if one isn’t to your taste, there’s always another.
         • Gosman 3.2.2.2.2

           14 June 2013 at 10:01 am

           Care to expand on that and explain what argument I am making without evidence?
           • Pasupial 3.2.2.2.2.1

             14 June 2013 at 2:09 pm

             @ Gosman

             Too bored to.
             • Gosman …

               14 June 2013 at 5:51 pm

               Yet you wasted your time writing the initial nonsensical post. Go figure.
           • McFlock 3.2.2.2.2.2

             14 June 2013 at 6:05 pm

             Care to expand on that and explain what argument I am making without evidence

             Gosman,

             As far as I can tell, you have provided absolutely no evidence in this thread. None. You’ve made plenty of assertions about what folk have said on other threads or on other sites, and some people have apparently agreed that something along those lines was said. You might even have made a coherent argument as a consequence of all those assertions.

             But where is a link, reference or citation so people can check the debates themselves? Others have linked to objectionable comments on, e.g., kiwiblog. But where is the evidence you have provided?

             As far as I can tell (and please link to the comment that proves me wrong), if you have made a coherent argument here, you have had no evidence to back it up.
       • Frank Macskasy 3.2.2.3

         14 June 2013 at 9:45 am

         How do you know the accusations were unwarranted Gosman? Can you prove it?
         • Gosman 3.2.2.3.1

           14 June 2013 at 10:00 am

           What absolute BS Frank.

           Can you imagine if I accused you of being a kiddy fiddler and then used that same argument – “How do you know the accusation is unwarranted? Can you prove it?”
       • handle 3.2.2.4

         14 June 2013 at 10:14 am

         Farrar blogged about defacing signs himself at the time. Self-defamation perhaps.
         • Gosman 3.2.2.4.1

           14 June 2013 at 10:26 am

           This is the allegation that was made and it is with out a basis in reality as far as I can tell. Unless you care to provide that evidence or are you simply going to repeat it here until you think people will accept it as fact.
           • handle 3.2.2.4.1.1

             14 June 2013 at 10:46 am

             I read the admission myself at the time and have no reason to make that up. Unless Farrar has deleted it, do some searching. You are the one who seems to be obsessed about it, after all.
             • Gosman …

               14 June 2013 at 10:57 am

               I call BS on that. You have plenty of reason to make up the allegation (i.e. you don’t particularly like DPF’s politics) or you plainly are wrong about what you think you read. Nothing on the internet is truly deleted. If you can’t be arsed looking for the link don’t spread the disinformation then.
               • handle …

                 14 June 2013 at 11:01 am

                 We do not all suffer lack of integrity and nor are you the arbiter of truth. You want to allege something me and at least someone else by the sounds of it have said is not true, go prove it.
                 • Gosman …

                   14 June 2013 at 12:19 pm

                   You don’t seem to understand the burden of proof.

                   For your information I have already asked David Farrar about this and he denies it. I also went through the blog posts on both Whale oil and Kiwiblog related to the blogging tour in 2008 and there was no mention of either of them engaging in this sort of behaviour. The evidence (or lack there of) therefore points to this being made up.
   • tracey 3.3

     13 June 2013 at 12:56 pm

     i disagree. Kiwiblog comments are often vile and downright offensive. The language that is used ill behoves some of those who comment there.
     • pollywog 3.3.1

       13 June 2013 at 1:03 pm

       Hah yeah…sorry bout it 🙂
     • pollywog 3.3.2

       13 June 2013 at 1:05 pm

       Hah yeah…sorry bout it
4. Rogue Trooper 4

   13 June 2013 at 11:49 am

   it can be observed that days go by on The Standard at times without the need for moderator input.
   • lprent 4.1

     13 June 2013 at 12:13 pm

     …that days go by on The Standard at times without the need for moderator input.

     Yeah. There are days when I have little time (like the last few days).

     On those days I still usually manage to scan the comments (bloody pages upon pages of 50 comments) and only stop on a few egregious comments. The day that I scanned almost 25 pages of them after I’d worked really really hard on code most of the day remains burned in my memory as a fried neuron trauma day – it was only 8 hours worth!. I tend to hand out bans like confetti if I have to stop to deal with something.

     I suspect that the other moderators notice when I’m not reading much because the spam queue mounts up towards 50 comments. I notice they start stepping in. I always know when it is time to make more time – Irish starts to moderate *evil grin*

     And then there are other more balmy days when I nitpick, do lots of warnings and just simple harassment of near-newbies who catch my eye as requiring education in net dynamics.

     No-one is ever too sure when the phases are going to flip (not even myself)… So people tend to stay well within the bounds.

     The site tends to run itself a lot of the time provided the ISP doesn’t screw up..
     • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1

       13 June 2013 at 12:31 pm

       hows that comment file coming along; was considering “Confessions of a Window Blogger” 😉
       Spin that 45
5. Rich 5

   13 June 2013 at 1:14 pm

   Just put this little line in your /etc/hosts (or c:windowssystem32driversetchosts or summat for Windows users):

   127.0.0.1 http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz

   Edit: inadvertently linked to him. Fixed
   I’ve had this for a year or more, haven’t been tempted to remove it.
   • weka 5.1

     13 June 2013 at 2:09 pm

     What does that do?
     • Rich 5.1.1

       13 June 2013 at 2:51 pm

       Stops you seeing kiwibleargh ever again, even if inadvertently linked to it.
       • McFlock 5.1.1.1

         13 June 2013 at 2:57 pm

         heh heh heh – useful 🙂
         • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2013 at 3:08 pm

           I only catch Kiwiblog when retrieving. Gun aye.
6. scotty 6

   13 June 2013 at 1:55 pm

   Has Farrar got a hot phone to Jim Moira, or does Moira invite him?
   His appearance on the panel seems acutely timed ,to deal to negative coverage by the MSM of Nationals fuckups .
   • tc 6.1

     13 June 2013 at 4:23 pm

     RNZ is effectively NACT Radio nowadays……Ryan’s a front for whatever her producers dish up, Mora’s show is braindead at best he just fills in between whoever is peddling whatever and the content quality overall has fallen badly. Morning report is toothless.

     Take today, on Ryan’s show a TV reviewer was doing what Mora’s TV reviewer had done previously, same show with similar comments ‘reimagining’ etc etc… it’s another aussie tv show FFS.

     Appears no overall production management just fill the air and keep Griffin happy (the nat installed chairman). If our f’n internet was better value I’d stream a decent service….datacaps’s a bitch and RNZ is freeviewed in……funny that as I can’t get CTV anymore !
     • Rodel 6.1.1

       13 June 2013 at 5:28 pm

       I dunno. I quite enjoy Ryan and Mora but don’t like the way Hooting and the Torytubby are used so often and allowed to make unchallenged generalisations.
7. tracey 7

   13 June 2013 at 4:06 pm

   It’s amazing how someone can so quickly be accepted as an expert. Mind you I see it each day in my work, people who used to be plumbers becoming experts on weathertightness of buildings. With nary a single certificate behind them, they open a flash office, charge over $220 an hour and the courts seem to lap it up.
8. Tigger 8

   13 June 2013 at 4:57 pm

   Imp Fish and David F’s side jokes are funnier than anything Fatwa has ever written.

   Edit: realised Fatwa could be misconstrued. Not a jab at weight, but a play on the Islamic (righteously bs) pronouncement.
   • Rogue Trooper 8.1

     13 June 2013 at 5:52 pm

     despite the commentors ‘Fatwa’ attracts, he is clever and influential.
9. Daveski 9

   13 June 2013 at 5:09 pm

   Rather than continue to mount personality attacks on DPF and others, how about trying to address the issues that he has raised. The hypocrisy or stupidity (take your pick) surrounding the positions on Dunne and Sky City are breathtaking which I suppose is acknowledged by the silence here. I have no mistaken view that National are anything near the perfect party or govt. Labour’s opposition continues to flatter the Govt.
   • weka 9.1

     13 June 2013 at 8:52 pm

     The rest of ts is filled with posts and comments addressing issues that DPF also raises. And this post isn’t a personality attack. It’s criticising something he did.
   • the pigman 9.2

     13 June 2013 at 9:02 pm

     “personality attacks”?

     Criticism of how he completely shot from the hip on his attack on Labour (I like his UPDATE ONE, especially well-researched) and his blog attracts completely unfettered, uncensored, abusive commenters (one “redbaiter” was mentioned earlier) are “personality attacks” on DPF.

     Really?
   • Nordy 9.3

     13 June 2013 at 9:39 pm

     You are confusing criticism and debate with personal attack – a speciality of NACT.

     No hypocracy or stupidity on either, just doing their job, both as the largest party in the opposition and in standing up for principle and basic common sense.

     For the Dunne saga and the NACT Sky City debacle, the stench of cronyism and corruption is overpowering – whether it is self-serving ambition or conflict of interest at the highest level – all with taxpayers money.

     The only thing that is breathtaking is your continued support and cheerleading for its continuation.

Links to post

1. The Daily Blog Watch Thursday 13 June « The Daily Blog: posted on 14 June 2013 at 5:58 am

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