Resignation-watch: Tariana Turia

129 comments on “Resignation-watch: Tariana Turia ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Tombstone 1

   7 February 2012 at 8:27 pm

   And that’s why Winston can be such an asset in the house. Nice!
   • MikeG 1.1

     7 February 2012 at 8:57 pm

     and that’s why the NACT’s hate him!
     • Cactus Kate 1.1.1

       7 February 2012 at 9:48 pm

       No we don’t. Turia goes, Maori Party goes and ACT policy with John Banks becomes the most powerful force in Parliament. Nek minuit Maori seat referendum. Sound like a fabulous outcome. Go Winston.
       
       [actually, Peter Dunne becomes the most powerful force in the government because he can swing and Banks won’t. Plus, with a 1,400 majority, he is vulnerable and has a good reason to vote against anything too extreme – Banks is safe no matter what he votes for. A smart anti-asset sales petition would then make a point of knocking on every door in Ohariu, collect a whole heap of names of Dunne’s constituents and put him in a real bind. Eddie]
       • Bored 1.1.1.1

         7 February 2012 at 9:53 pm

         Hone beat you to the punch, you are fucked.
       • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.2

         7 February 2012 at 9:59 pm

         I’m sorry, but are you claiming John Banks knows ACT’s policies?
       • McFlock 1.1.1.3

         7 February 2012 at 10:00 pm

         You should form a fan group with PeteG, who supports another most powerful force in parliament.
                 
          
          
       • Lanthanide 1.1.1.4

         7 February 2012 at 10:01 pm

         Constitutional review puts a bit of a damper on that fantasy.
       • Lanthanide 1.1.1.5

         7 February 2012 at 10:45 pm

         It seems to be an increasing trend on this site that moderators reply to someone’s post by editing it, rather than just doing a regular reply. I don’t really see the purpose of this.

         [I use it a) when, as now, I’m on my smartphone, which won’t let me comment normally for some reason, b) occasionally to forcefully shut down a commenter that is being destructive, c) to make responses to criticisms, praise, or questions directly relaying to me or the site and d) rarely just the house privilege to make ones reply to a comment come first in line in a complex thread. Eddie]
         • Matthew Whitehead 1.1.1.5.1

           7 February 2012 at 11:56 pm

           Think of it as line-by-line fact-checking. 😉
         • Jenny 1.1.1.5.2

           8 February 2012 at 7:07 am

           (In answer to a procedural question by Lanthanide).

           …..when, as now, I’m on my smartphone, which won’t let me comment normally for some reason, b) occasionally to forcefully shut down a commenter that is being destructive, c) to make responses to criticisms, praise, or questions directly relaying to me or the site and d) rarely just the house privilege to make ones reply to a comment come first in line in a complex thread.

           Eddie

           This is good news Eddie. I am glad that you are taking a more hands on approach. In the past when I have tried to ask you a question you have never replied.

           When I persisted I was told by one of the other moderators that it is not your policy to answer questions from commentors.

           I don’t want to divert this thread, which is raising some serious issues that need to be addressed. (and which if addressed properly, will see this miserable regime’s majority and legitimacy reduced. Possibly even overturned.)

           But I have a burning question I want to ask you about the wharfies dispute.

           If I ask it on open mike will you reply?
       • Shazzadude 1.1.1.6

         8 February 2012 at 12:30 am

         Or, it makes the former MP for Te Tai Tokerau Tau Henare the most powerful man in parliament. Good luck getting him to agree to remove the Maori seats.
       • mik e 1.1.1.7

         8 February 2012 at 5:56 pm

         not really CK8 if Maori seats were abolished Nationals rural seats would become marginal.
2. Anne 2

   7 February 2012 at 8:49 pm

   Yep. He knows how to make the best use of Question Time. Labour seems to lack the balls to get stuck in and ask the controversial stuff. I still havn’t worked out why. Is it because they simply don’t have the guts, or are they scared in case it comes back to individually bite them? I think I’ve answered my own question. 😉
   • muzza 2.1

     7 February 2012 at 8:57 pm

     Its because they are as owned as the NACTS – They answer to the same people…

     Norman Kirk was the last independent PM either party ever had!

     Winston back in the house…fantastic!
     • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.1

       7 February 2012 at 11:58 pm

       Urgh. While Winston may be good at politics, he has terrible policy and I really wish people wouldn’t support him or New Zealand First.
       • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1

         8 February 2012 at 1:16 am

         Yeah some of it is shit, but some fit well. $15/hr minimum wage and no asset sales. First $5200 income tax free. Buy NZ made campaign and entrepreneur development financing. Cut back on land sales overseas and mandate that electricity prices must be affordable.
       • muzza 2.1.1.2

         8 February 2012 at 9:17 am

         Was referring to his making life uncomfortable during question time, as that is what this threah is about..

         So who would you have people who voted NF, vote for ?

         Labour, NACT, Green, probably NZ1 – All owned!
   • mickysavage 2.2

     7 February 2012 at 9:12 pm

     I think Anne that Labour needs a couple of criminal lawyers there who know how to target the questions down to the important detail …
     • McFlock 2.2.1

       7 February 2012 at 9:18 pm

       You could have something there.
     • Anne 2.2.2

       7 February 2012 at 9:40 pm

       Well, it’s up to them to rectify that asap. There must be a few criminal lawyers around who don’t like the Nats. Surely one of them would be prepared to assist them when it is needed.
       • Colonial Viper 2.2.2.1

         8 February 2012 at 9:58 am

         Winston trained in the old Muldoon school of inquisition and rhetoric. It wouldn’t hurt to dig up tapes of Winston (and Muldoon) in full flight crucifying their opponents in the House and learn from them. I suspect most criminal lawyers could learn a thing or two from those old hands.
         • higherstandard 2.2.2.1.1

           8 February 2012 at 2:25 pm

           In his younger days when he was in full evisceration mode he was terrifying in the debating chamber – none of today’s politicians come close in the house, in fact most of them would struggle against a team of high school students.

           I’ll share a story later on about one of our local body politicians from a speech a couple of weeks ago it sums up the current crop brilliantly.
   • Carol 2.3

     8 February 2012 at 7:52 am

     Actually, it looks like Peters did what Rodney Hide made a habit of doing towards the end of the last Clark government: i.e. Rodney went after Clark by attacking Peters. That left Key and National free to claim they didn’t do negative politics.

     Payback!
3. Peter 3

   7 February 2012 at 8:52 pm

   So, all of those traditional Labour voters who strategically ticked NZF this time around may not have been wrong in getting another strong leader into Opposition?
4. Peter Marshall 4

   7 February 2012 at 8:54 pm

   While we are at it, where is the $158k Winston?
   • coolas 4.1

     7 February 2012 at 9:36 pm

     He can apply to Whanau Ora – duh!
   • Colonial Viper 4.2

     8 February 2012 at 9:59 am

     $158K…is that even enough to buy one of those new Ministerial BMWs that Key’s department ordered? The ones with seat warmers?
   • Treetop 4.3

     8 February 2012 at 1:00 pm

     Ten charities benefited.
     • foreign waka 4.3.1

       8 February 2012 at 1:49 pm

       Charities get donations. So our taxpayer money’s are now donations?
     • alwyn 4.3.2

       8 February 2012 at 2:01 pm

       Don’t you mean that Winston CLAIMS he gave the money to 10 charities?
       Why has he never come out and told us who is in the list of those who are supposed to have benefited from the taxpayer’s largesse? At the time there was one charity which was supposed to have received some of the money but they, probably wisely, said that they had refused to accept anything.
       You say there were 10 charities. Perhaps you will enlighten us as to which they are?
       • Te Reo Putake 4.3.2.1

         8 February 2012 at 2:15 pm

         I wonder if they are the same charities John Key gives his salary to, but whose names he can never remember?
         • alwyn 4.3.2.1.1

           8 February 2012 at 2:38 pm

           There is one very large difference between what John Key says and what Winston says on the subject of donations.
           Whatever John Key gives is his own money. If he claims a tax deduction it becomes a question between him and the IRD but other than that it is no concern of anyone else.
           Winston’s “donations” were money that was pinched from the taxpayer. If it wasn’t pinched they wouldn’t have had to push through a law legalising it after the event would they?
           Incidentally UF said they would return the money they took back to the taxpayer. I wonder if there is any evidence of that happening?
           • Jack 4.3.2.1.1.1

             8 February 2012 at 11:05 pm

             Alwyn, right and you believe that John Key has a “blind” trust fund. You compare 158000 to 4 billion that John Key purposely caused us taxpayers to pay up for the SCF scandal, AMI insurance, tax cuts. That 4 billion is in addition to the extra 6 billion he is spending compared to Labour. He’s not saving us any money, he’s selling us out for his rich mates and foreign investors like Goldman Sachs. You can’t compare the amount that Winston compared to the purposeful blunder Key has done. Look at the big picture.
       • Treetop 4.3.2.2

         8 February 2012 at 4:39 pm

         This morning on Morning Report Winston was asked where the $158k went? He said to 10 charities.

         I was not claiming to know which charities benefited.
5. Carol 5

   7 February 2012 at 8:56 pm

   Did Peters totally wrong-foot Key? Given Peters primary question about confidence in Key’s ministers, I expected the supplementaries to be about asset sales and the Treaty.
6. Populuxe1 6

   7 February 2012 at 8:56 pm

   Juicy! It’s like the Steam Roller bit in Austin Powers….
7. ianmac 7

   7 February 2012 at 9:14 pm

   That’s funny. There was an item in the Herald about the payments Whanau Ora featuring Winston and in a strong detailed language. I went to Refresh and nextminit! It has disappeared.
   Aha found it – buried.
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783968 by Adam Bennett
8. McFlock 8

   7 February 2012 at 9:28 pm

   So once again Key’s response is that he didn’t read the document. He’s not corrupt or incompetent, he’s just lazy.
      
   What a tool.
   • Populuxe1 8.1

     7 February 2012 at 9:32 pm

     Sympathy for the Devil – no one could possibly read all of the papers. It’s not physically possible, which is why we have a civil service in the first place. But I find it highly unlikely that no one  spotted anything amiss – then again, there aren’t as many civil servants are there used to be and those that remain are very very bitter.
     • McFlock 8.1.1

       7 February 2012 at 9:40 pm

       I might agree – until I got to Peters’ last question. I’d expect reports from ministers to be at the top of the list of things the PM should be reading, with steff going through with a fine-tooth comb.
     • Fortran 8.1.2

       8 February 2012 at 2:13 pm

       Helen and Heather read “everything”., which is why Helen was so well prepared for anything.
9. Eddie 9

   7 February 2012 at 10:12 pm

   let’s demand a little more of our $400K a year PM, shall we? I don’t expect him to read every paper but I expect that, when he gives one of his ministers a new $230m a year budget and creates a new portfolio for her, he makes sure she’s going to be spending that money on something worthwhile

   I also expect that he demands of his ministers that they come to him if there is rorting of taxpayers’ money going on under their noses, under the rules they set up. And if they don’t, I expect him to fire them.
10. tc 10

    7 February 2012 at 10:14 pm

    Whanau ora was setup as a trough for the MP using health funding, if I was Key it’d always find something else to read, especially as its fulfilling it’s purpose.
    • McFlock 10.1

      7 February 2012 at 10:18 pm

      well it becomes a bit of a double edged sword. If they don’t trough enough, they won’t support Key. If they trough too much, this sort of thing comes out. And being discovered and brought to light got a lot more likely when Peters came back.
      • Maui 10.1.1

        7 February 2012 at 10:27 pm

        Yup, you’ve got a criminal lawyer in the House. I gather that Cunliffe’s experience is academic – tutoring in the hallowed halls of Yale. I’d be happy to be proved wrong ..
        • muzza 10.1.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 9:38 am

          Which really just means that as DC is a lawyer, he will not be asking questions which may expose the scam that is the NZ parliament!

          Not much danger of you being proved wrong, unfortunately – DC is afterall a member of PfGO (A)
        • Fortran 10.1.1.2

          8 February 2012 at 2:16 pm

          Cunliffe actually may not be clever enough – he has no real legal experience, like Winston, who is a qualified lawyer actually, but he is like so many with a law degree – 2 a penny and no experience.
11. jbc 11

    8 February 2012 at 12:55 am

    So Winston is once more trying on the sanctimony. Next he will be attacking the Minister for Racing as being a pointless nod to the wealthy horsey set.

    More likely he’s just miffed that he was not in a ‘kingmaker’ position and able to squeeze the Wine and Cheese portfolio for himself.
    • lprent 11.1

      8 February 2012 at 1:09 am

      So cynical j… The problem is that he tends to be somewhat better with the sanctimony and generally whilst in opposition. I almost pity the Government ministers
      • jbc 11.1.1

        8 February 2012 at 1:23 am

        True and true. He does have a point but I have great difficulty taking anything he says at face value.

        He’s less sincere than Turia but a hell of a lot better at the bluff and trickery.
        • lprent 11.1.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 1:30 am

          Yep. The point is that in opposition all he has to do is attack. He is a pain as defense. But in attack he is bloody effective. And we need a good opposition.
12. Carol 12

    8 February 2012 at 7:55 am

    So, the Whanau Ora “troughing” was hiding in plain view, written in thereport on it. So Turia must think the spending is justified? I’ll be interested to hear her explanation.
    • marsman 12.1

      8 February 2012 at 8:35 am

      If we do get an explanation. The National Party’s Ministers tend to run and hide when they are asked to account for their actions.
      • Carol 12.1.1

        8 February 2012 at 9:13 am

        Turia’s said Peters is ‘wrong”

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/97769/whanau-ora-seen-as-waste-of-money-by-peters

        However, the man he was talking about, Johni Rutene, says he sold his three barber shops last year and is still struggling financially.

        Mr Rutene says the $3000 Whanau Ora grant is to cover the cost of two hui, where his wider family can discuss a formal plan to improve their lives and their health.

        Mr Rutene says his family is genuinely in need of help.

        […]However, Whanau Ora Minister Tariana Turia defended the programme.

        She said Whanau Ora does not fund reunions and that if families have problems, it’s important that they are able to come together to sort them out.

        Mrs Turia said plenty of state agencies have intervened in the lives of many families involved in the scheme, but they have not been successful.

        I did doubt if Turia would be so stupid as to blatantly show troughing in a report.

        But Peters can get away with taking a shot on flimsy evidence, whereas the Labour party MPs would get hammered for doing the same.
        • ghostwhowalksnz 12.1.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 9:30 am

          If thats the criteria for being on Struggle St, “your three barbershops had to be sold”, then there is no way this fund will survive the acid Winston will pour on it.
          • foreign waka 12.1.1.1.1

            8 February 2012 at 1:53 pm

            If everybody would apply this criteria there would be no end to “donations” being handed out. And as Mrs Turia said, Whanau Ora is for all NZlaenders, not just Maoris.
13. Jackal 13

    8 February 2012 at 8:38 am

    Going into coalition with National was bad enough, but to continue to support a government that wants to sell off New Zealand to the highest bidder is just stupid!

    With Winston Peters now banging on their door about corruption, and that claim going unanswered, the Maori party will be lucky to survive.
14. vto 14

    8 February 2012 at 9:50 am

    How will Key handle the going when the going gets really tough I wonder ….

    I predict he will get nasty and snarky and arrogant and uncaring.

    I suspect this term is going to get really really tough. They will not get the asset sales through. They will be lame ducks…… fingers crossed …..
    • felix 14.1

      8 February 2012 at 9:57 am

      Related to this, and also related to Eddie’s observation of Winnie’s first question of the year…

      The Nats’ got the first question of the new year and they spent it on grey man English mumbling about dishwater.

      Where was the star player? The turd won’t polish up any more? Wha haappen, National?
15. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 15

    8 February 2012 at 10:07 am

    This was taxpayers money, which, rather than going to families in need, is going to middle-class people…

    Can’t agree more.

    I suppose that you are against interest free student loans on the same basis.
    • felix 15.1

      8 February 2012 at 10:16 am

      In the interests of consistency I’m against any govt spending any money or using any resources for any reason, ever.

      I assume you are too, on the same basis.
      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        8 February 2012 at 10:43 am

        Argument a la Gossie? 😛
    • Lanthanide 15.2

      8 February 2012 at 10:37 am

      I’m not sure why righties are so against interest-free student loans.

      Having an interest free student loan is one of the reasons I decided to stay in NZ. I’m sure many people stay in NZ because of the interest free student loans.

      If you’d rather we had an even larger brain drain going offshore then sure, repeal interest-free student loans. I’m sure my bf who isn’t too short of 6 figures on his loan from doing an engineering PhD would practically be forced to go to Australia to get a job that would pay enough to pay back his loan. I’d most likely be going with him.

      It’s also rather galling when those who call for this by and large got a free education themselves.

      Interest-free student loans while you live in NZ are a practical solution to educational debt and keeping our best and brightest from leaving. That’s not to say the system isn’t perfect – I would like to see stricter entry requirements for university as well as a grades-based approach for 2nd and 3rd year funding to stop people going to university and dropping out with huge debts without qualifications which doesn’t help them or the country, but this isn’t nearly the same as simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater as you’re suggesting.
      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 15.2.1

        8 February 2012 at 11:56 am

        It is also a middle class subsidy and Eddie hates those.
        • Lanthanide 15.2.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 12:50 pm

          So you don’t have a point, then. Good to clear that up.
        • Ianupnorth 15.2.1.2

          8 February 2012 at 2:57 pm

          No you are wrong TGFFKAO; an interest free loan for students does several things, namely, keeps a visible economy for several years as Kiwi’s study to enhance their career prospects (and the aspirations of the country), the dollars being spent onshore, keeping many lecturers, etc in a  job  too.
           
          A grant for a ‘reunion’ is never repayed in any form and the benefit to the country is questionable.
          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 15.2.1.2.1

            8 February 2012 at 3:06 pm

            But the fault Eddie found was that it was going to people who didn’t need it.
            • Lanthanide 15.2.1.2.1.1

              8 February 2012 at 3:52 pm

              What part of “leaving to Australia because I can’t get a job that pays enough to pay back my student loan at a sensible rate because of the interest being charged” makes interest-free student loans not count as a “need”?

              If we *want* students to stay in the country after they finish their education, we *need* to give them some incentive to do so.

              Pretty easy.
              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …

                8 February 2012 at 4:07 pm

                Tell it to Eddie, dude.
                • McFlock …

                  8 February 2012 at 4:39 pm

                  Because going into debt simply to eat is “middle class”?
                    
                  Well, it will be the way National’s going.
16. the sprout 16

    8 February 2012 at 11:31 am

    Certainly nice to see an opposition leader who actually opposes the Key government instead of trying to be best friends forever with it.

    Unlike the current Labour caucus, it’s as if Peters is actually ideologically distinct from National.
17. jbc 17

    8 February 2012 at 12:07 pm

    “it’s as if peters is actually ideologically distinct from national”

    Peters is ideologically distinct from (or aligned with) anything you care to mention. He’s also rather deft at reversing out of a position if he senses the spotlight shifts unfavourably. Master of the political J-turn.

    Nevertheless if he continues to shine some light on this type of thing then he’s doing us all a favour.
18. Hateatea 18

    8 February 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Winston, as always, is an opportunist. He also plays to the red neck element of his constituency by targeting his questioning at MP policies such as Whanau Ora rather than any number of other things he could have. eg asset sales, land sales to overseas companies etc.

    When he was, briefly, the Minister of Maori Affairs, he alienated a lot of people, me included, by his constant put down of Maori solutions for what are perceived to be Maori problems. I see yesterday as being no different.

    I don’t know the man concerned so no vested interest in championing him but I proffer an example: Whanau A has been identified as having a higher than usual risk of heart disease, Tangata B has expertise at running small businesses while Tangata C knows how to write proposals and bring people together. Tangata B and C are cousins, members of Whanau A. They find out that there is interest within the whanau to know more about the health issues but they recognise that they all live in different areas and that some are far from well off. They put together a proposal to Whanau Ora for a series of hui to help bring the whanau together to learn about the issues, how they might be resolved, perhaps look at pooling the rent monies from communally owned land to support initiatives such as going smokefree as a whanau, joining walking groups, having fitness challenges etc.

    The funding may enable them to have well health checks during each hui, diabetes educators, nutritionists, exercise specialists, budget advisors, motivators etc.

    Such an programme might have an outcome of several people diagnosed with diabetes resulting in improved health for them, heightened awareness of the health issues, better mental health outcomes from increased whanau interaction, greater uptake of well health initiatives such as HEHA, improved self esteem as people feel more ‘in charge’ of their health and well being.

    Given that statistics show that Maori have significant deficits in well health care uptake resulting in greater use of the more expensive forms of healthcare such as Emergency and hospital based therapies, the investment of a few thousand dollars to reach maybe 200 people might be seen as having a beneficial outcome.

    No system is perfect or beyond abuse, Bill English proved that with his housing rort. If this particular part of Whanau Ora needs fine tuning, so be it but as the thrust of the programme as I understood it, is for existing agencies to reach more people with more effective and appropriate strategies than in the past with a view to reversing all the horrendous and negative statistics that are used all the time against Maori whanau, perhaps we all need to be prepared for ways of working that are not necessarily how we would do it. How we do it now is not working for many.

    The Leader of NZ First knows all this of course, but it is much easier (and more appealing to his supporters) to pick on Tariana Turia 
    • Lanthanide 18.1

      8 February 2012 at 2:59 pm

      “He also plays to the red neck element of his constituency by targeting his questioning at MP policies such as Whanau Ora rather than any number of other things he could have. eg asset sales, land sales to overseas companies etc.’

      I don’t think that’s very fair. If you have evidence of apparent corruption or misuse or poor use of taxpayers money then that is the topic you ask questions about. The fact that Whanau Ora is so readily amenable to such activities is because it was so poorly implemented and scoped in the first place.
      • insider 18.1.1

        8 February 2012 at 4:52 pm

        Agreed. The making of direct micro grants to individual families looks like it could be really hard to control and monitor, particularly if its being done nationally. I had thought WO was for organisations wanting to work with and within families, not families on behalf of themselves.

        WO and most of its recipients may be well meaning and worthy, but when the govt is preaching austerity all around, giving money for poorly defined and structured events is going to lead to PR grief. It’s not like there hasn’t been precedents to warn them.
        • Hateatea 18.1.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 6:24 pm

          According to my quick refresher on Whanau Ora that I took after making this post, most funding will channel through existing organisations, trusts etc. That still wouldn’t prevent a whanau group making a proposal to an authorised providor as long as the target criteria would be met through the application.

          Actually, looking at other countries, direct micro funding is often extremely effective in reaching target groups and making positive change in communities. I see no reason why NZ should respond differently. 
          • insider 18.1.1.1.1

            8 February 2012 at 6:30 pm

            No problem with micro grants. I;m just not sure a centralised govt dept can do it effectively on a national scale. It’s probably better through existing local organisations.
            • Hateatea 18.1.1.1.1.1

              8 February 2012 at 6:33 pm

              And that is why the document I read earlier referred to existing providors, not direct TPK funding of individual whanau
      • Hateatea 18.1.2

        8 February 2012 at 6:32 pm

        ‘I don’t think that’s very fair. If you have evidence of apparent corruption or misuse or poor use of taxpayers money then that is the topic you ask questions about.’

        If it were anyone but Winston, I might agree. The reality is that far too often he picks up part of a paragraph, report or newsclip and manufactures an enormous drama. Increasingly over recent years he has played to his target audience with thinly veiled, race based attacks.

        There may be cause for concern in some Whanau ora allocation. That is something I cannot comment on because i haven’t read the report yet but I wouldn’t EVER take Winston’s word for it. In my opinion he has been misleading far too often in my remembrance of his years in politics. 
    • Jack 18.2

      8 February 2012 at 11:13 pm

      Why don’t the Corporate iwi come to this man aid instead of taxpayers? The leaders of the brown table have billions, yet nothing is filtered down to the poor maori? Why? The taxpayers are getting it at both ends.
19. james111 19

    8 February 2012 at 2:18 pm

    People might take Winston seriously if he returned the $160,000 he took off the tax payers in his last term in Government
    • Kotahi Tane Huna 19.1

      8 February 2012 at 2:47 pm

      No, fool, they won’t care or even remember. They’ll love his bombast and theatre and this is exactly the political environment the National Party has created, bullshit and bluster. Winston’s empty whiskey bottle does bullshit and bluster better than all your grey mumblers put together, so enjoy the curse: you paid for it.
      • the sprout 19.1.1

        8 February 2012 at 3:16 pm

        Well put
      • james111 19.1.2

        8 February 2012 at 5:45 pm

        Kotahi
        How do you feel about all the deaths of the Maori Children ,and babies that has happened already this year. Worse child abuse rate in the world ,and mainly from one ethnic group.Where is all the Maori Leadership on it why dont they say anything. Whats the pie man saying from Gisborne. havent heard a thing.Wheres the accountability from the Maori Party ,and leadership another Hui needed you think.
        • Hateatea 19.1.2.1

          8 February 2012 at 6:46 pm

          It is regrettable that anyone harms a child irrespective of race or religion. One of the things Whanau Ora is supposed to be helping to do is coordinate effective strategies at a local level to deal with local concerns whether it is domestic violence, youth suicide, alcohol and drug use and abuse, poverty, poor nutrition etc.

          Don’t use statistics against me, Hemi tokotoru, my middle class white husband beat me often during our marriage. Does that make it a Maori statistic? It shouldn’t. Violence against people happens in all sectors of society, just some have more resources to hide it. It happens for all sorts of reasons including, but not limited to, poverty, unemployment, poor housing, mental health issues, addiction issues, poor coping strategies and more.

          The Maori Leadership Group and the Maori Party are only two parties in this discussion. One of the things that is needed is for everyone to own the problem, rich or poor, town or country, tangata whenua or tauiwi. There has been fantastic work done by individuals such as Cherie Sweeney in Ngaruawahia but we need thousands of Cherie Sweeney’s not just writing on blogs but taking positive steps in the places in which they live.

          Now, Hemi, what have <b>YOU</b> done? What do <b>YOU</b> propose to do? Sit around Maori and benefit bashing on The Standard or put some practical energy behind your concern?
          • james111 19.1.2.1.1

            8 February 2012 at 7:10 pm

            Trouble is the Government, Labour Party , Maori Party, Maori Leadership are to PC to say it like it is. I admire the likes of the people that you have mentioned, but as you say unless there is real leadership behind it ,and saying it nothing will change Accountability must happen people must face up to their problems rather than trying to blame the Government. I only notice a deathly silence from Maori Politicans ,and leadership not good enough in my books
            • thatguynz 19.1.2.1.1.1

              8 February 2012 at 7:20 pm

              I think you missed the critical part of Hateatea’s post…
              “What have YOU done?  What do YOU propose to do?”
               
              I’m intrigued to know what “PC” reference you are making about the assorted parties you listed above?  The clear inference is that you are suggesting it’s a “Maori” problem as opposed to being a socio-economic one.  Got the figures to support that?
               
              I’m as “un-PC” (Caveat: not racist) as they come and have no fear of calling a spade a spade but I suggest you’d better have very strong supporting evidence or you run a very real risk of appearing hypocritical after your strident foray into labelling others as racist through the Crafar farms discussions…
              • james111 …

                8 February 2012 at 7:35 pm

                I have written emails to maori leadership. I have written emails to TVNZ when they had the audacity to show a white baby boy in their prelude to another baby has been murdered by its parents. When everyone knew it was a Maori baby from Whangarei I mean who do they think they were kidding PC gone mad to afraid to tell it like it is. Huis wont fix Maoris taking full accountability for their actions might another talk fest just doesnt work has been proved already statistics are appaling
                • Dv …

                  8 February 2012 at 7:43 pm

                  Yep emails will do it. Well done.
                • thatguynz …

                  8 February 2012 at 7:47 pm

                  And with that your honour, the prosecution rests.  James, you couldn’t have highlighted your racist credentials any better if you’d trotted out wearing a pointy white hat.
                   
                  It’s not about being “PC” or being “non-PC”.  It’s about not being an arsehat and actually looking at the bigger picture and forming a rational viewpoint.  I’ll say again, where are your statistics?
                  • james111 …

                    8 February 2012 at 8:20 pm

                    If you want the sad stats here they are why trying to save you the pain because most people know them
                    Whanau Violence Statistics
                    Half of all children killed by caregivers are Maori.
                    Seven times more young Maori women and four times more Maori children are
                    hospitalised from an assault compared to Pakeha women and children.
                    49% of Maori women experienced partner abuse at some time in their life, compared
                    with 24% of Pakeha and 23% of Pacifica women.
                    Court.
                    Without Maori in the statistics New Zealand has one of the lowest rates of general child abuse in the world. That is – Maori are over-represented in bashing kids. That’s why it is okay to single them out as a group and demand they improve. It’s no one else’s fault but themselves that their statistics are so appalling. It’s a violence perpetrated on their own.

                    Unlike the Chinese who randomly kill their kids and themselves by throwing them off tall buildings in despair, New Zealand parents tend not to kill their kids and then themselves. It’s not as neat and honourable as that.

                    Michael Laws has upset the handwringers (again) by columnising his opinions on the problem and even (shock horror) using a picture of a dead child on Facebook.

                    Maori are trying to deflect the issue from themselves and claiming a collective “youse all do it too”. That they are as a group, killing their own kids. But it’s not the evil coloniser or Indian or Asian immigrants who are killing Maori kids. Oh no, Maori would be screaming at the top of their lungs and wanting compensation if that was happening. Maori are doing the job very nicely all by themselves.

                    You cannot blame poverty, drugs and alcohol for abuse. Most poor people don’t smash up their kids. Most people who drink alcohol don’t abuse kids. There is just something so fundamentally evil and wrong about a child basher that it is a condition in itself. Drunk poor meth-users are one thing. A child basher is in a class of their own.

                    Laws has spent weeks on end in Starship hospital so he’s well placed to comment. And sure there are many Lucy’s in residence, but their illness isn’t avoidable. The many brown faces in Starship who have injuries born at the hands of those who are meant to be caring for them are all avoidable. They aren’t accidents.

                    So what is a solution to the problem? That’s another cry that the apologists are weeping as we comment about yet another kiddie dismembered at the hands of those who are meant to be their number one protector? And a whanau all banding together like the gang of crims they all are, to protect the guilty. That’s all they are – unpatched gangsters taking their own vow of silence.

                    More handouts for having these children isn’t the answer.

                    The heaving pathetic underclass do not seem to have any idea how to look after and better themselves let alone their kids. All the Whanau Ora in the world given to them from the collective troughing of the “consultant” middle class neo-minted Maori brorocracy won’t help them.

                    I was one of the few on the centre-right in favour of Sue Bradford’s anti-smacking Bill for this reason that certain groups causing the worst carnage are too thick to differentiate a smack from a life-threatening belt. Too irresponsible for a child’s life to be risked with their making of a judgment call. Something had to be done. While children are still dying, the anti-smacking Bill was a step to do something about the problem of child abuse. But it was not enough.

                    Regardless of your race, not killing your child is fairly bloody fundamental. One of those things that doesn’t need to even be said at Plunket or passed down from generations does it? Sticking a child on a clothes line, body slamming a baby, beating a child up and down isn’t even an action of primates. A baboon is more advanced in its thinking.

                    That’s the main issue, those killing and maiming children from any race are not human beings, they are the missing link from…well you can’t even say primates can you as most wild animals manage to look after and not deliberately kill their own children? You cannot legislate to protect children from these creatures because creatures do not acknowledge any laws.

                    So the time has come for a fresh approach. Let’s stop handwringing semantics to the problem, remove historians and academics from the debate. Let’s forget about offending a few precious souls who would rather see more Maori kids killed because solving the problem ruins their lily white world and exposes them to criticism. Let’s actually DO something.
                    • thatguynz …

                      8 February 2012 at 9:02 pm

                      Erm, clearly we have a difference in opinion on stats James.  How about something at least semi-official rather than an op piece from Michael Laws?  You know – from CYFS perhaps, Dept of Statistics?  Overlay that with the relative proportion of maori vs other ethnic groups that reside below the poverty line as a %age of the population.  You get the drift – something substantive..
                       
                      It may well prove your case, it may not but at least it will provide some substance.
                       
                      One thing I do however agree with you on – what are we collectively going to do (as a nation) to protect our children – irrespective of race, creed or colour?
                    • Drongo …

                      9 February 2012 at 3:21 am

                      Who wrote this, james111? Was it you?

                      http://tumeke.blogspot.com/2011/06/hateful-cathy-odgers-as-act-candidate.html

                      There were a few choice indicators that reminded me of one of odgers most despicable posts, although they’re getting pretty much all like that these days.

                      What was most telling here though was being reminded of odgers attempting to claim child abuse as a Maori problem, but then in the same breath laying blame with the “heaving pathetic underclass”, her racism oozing out of the tips of her fingers without her even noticing it: odgers thinks Maori ARE the “heaving pathetic underclass! Such blatant racism was even too much for ACT to handle. odgers getting her marching orders from the likes of ACT really says something about how this child of the devil operates.

                      Either james111 is odgers but she was so pissed she thought she could repeat her bile under another name, or james111 is such an idiot he thinks he can re-post odgers’ bile under his own name unnoticed, or there was a mix up at ACT headquarters and odgers and james111 were issued with the same pre-written bile and each thought it was theirs to do with as they thought fit.

                      Which is it, racist james? Or is that racist odgers?
                  • james111 …

                    8 February 2012 at 8:25 pm

                    Another little gem for you says it all really especially about the PC brigade and hadnwringers well said. Lets get action not political spin it makes us look sick as a country, and one of our ethnic groups is over represented face the facts
                    Michael Law’s column in the Sunday Star Times yesterday was factual (based on Official Information Act requests), honest, and inconvenient

                    Over half (54% in 2009) of all convictions for violent offences against children are committed by Maori, 24% by European/Pakeha and 19% by Pacific Islanders. On these statistics, Asian families are significantly under represented. That there is a particular violence problem within the Maori culture is not a new finding and has been commented upon for more than a generation. But these statistics suggest that it is not getting better – it is getting worse and especially for Maori children.

                    …Maori make up 14.6% of New Zealand’s population, according to the 2006 Census

                    If we’re going to tackle the problem of child abuse, we need to target rotten parents, not good parents.

                    And Laws sums it up perfectly – on behalf of the 95% of great parents raising great kids in NZ

                    Almost every family prone to abusing their children is already known by government agencies – Police, justice, health, education, CYF, social welfare and Housing Corp. You could draw up that list right now from such shared information. And then just target them. Virtually none of their children will go on to achieve anything. They will repeat and probably accentuate the environment in which they have been raised. They were born into a particular environment that means leaving them with their “parent/parents/whanau” is an act of state cruelty. Most New Zealand parents, indeed most Maori parents, are fine. Leave them alone. Stop the preaching, stop the public education admonitions, stop the petty attempts to ban parental smacking. Instead let’s concentrate all our efforts where they will make the biggest difference.
                • rosy …

                  8 February 2012 at 7:48 pm

                  a white baby boy in their prelude to another baby has been murdered by its parents.

                  I mean, because everyone knows that non-Maori never kill their babies. And everyone knows that stating Maori ethnicity means that perceived white-looking babies can never have a Maori parent. Well done james111.
                  • james111 …

                    8 February 2012 at 7:55 pm

                    Here flows the PC river of crap again this is what you are up against. Rosy Maori are the worst offenders for murdering their children out of any race in the world on a per head of population basis FACT.
                    NZ gets bridled with the Stats but most of that particular crime is committed by 12% of the population FACT tell it like its dont try and candy coat the problem it shocking and horrendous what is stil lhappening with very little said from Maori MPs and leadership
                    • thatguynz …

                      8 February 2012 at 7:58 pm

                      FFS James you are tiresome..  Show us the stats that you are trumpeting…
                       
                      Given you are awfully keen to point out FACT everywhere, I would assume that you’d have them at your fingertips?
                    • rosy …

                      8 February 2012 at 8:22 pm

                      And tell me james111, do you think that’s because they’re Maori or because they live in deprivation. Stats show a rate of 37/100,000 children are abused in decile 10 (the poorest people) compared with 4.8/100,000 in decile 2 (the wealthiest). And the rate consistently rises as poverty rises. FACT.

                      Do you think the rate of Pakeha abuse would rise if more Pakeha were deprived? Do you think Maori in Decile 1 abuse their children at the same rate as those in decile 10?
                    • vto …

                      8 February 2012 at 8:36 pm

                      does the attitude lead to the problem or the problem lead to the attitude?

                      whatever it does it aint working so the dinamics need dynamising
                  • Drongo …

                    9 February 2012 at 3:03 pm

                    Pretty telling rosy, how james111 blames Maori and “the heaving pathetic underclass” in the same breath, exposing not only his own blatant racism but also the odgers’ rock bottom level of intellect – what he says here has been sycophantically lifted word-for-word from odgers’ hateful site. james111, like odgers, is not only racist, but just plain thick.
            • Hateatea 19.1.2.1.1.2

              8 February 2012 at 7:29 pm

              And the number of meetings held by the Maori Party with their constituency is??

              The number of times you have been to hui regarding this issue is??

              Tariana Turia, Te Ururoa Flavel and Pita Sharples have all spoken out on the issue of child abuse
               http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/13239/Sharples-horrified-at-childs-alleged-abuse

               http://www.tetaihauauru.maori.nz/index.php?pag=nw&id=416&p=mind-your-own-business-.html

               http://www.maoriparty.org/index.php?pag=nw&id=1645&p=time-to-unite-to-address-child-abuse.html

               
              • james111 …

                8 February 2012 at 8:28 pm

                Rosy oh Rosy what a terrible excuse (because they are so so deprived) how come it doesnt happen in the deepest poorest Africa where people are really desperate or India or Pakistan doesnt stack up cut the guilt trip PC crap and start facing the facts
                • rosy …

                  8 February 2012 at 8:37 pm

                  So you know it doesn’t happen in India, Pakistan, Africa? I’d love to see some stats from the shanty towns and slums.
            • Hateatea 19.1.2.1.1.3

              8 February 2012 at 7:34 pm

              BTW Just who do you think Maori Leadership is? It isn’t just the MP’s and the Iwi Leaders Group, in fact, my aunties would tell you that WOMEN are the Maori leaders. They have led the fight in Te Reo, Education, Health, Anti Smoking and you don’t get anything done unless they say you can!

              You need to take of your blinkers and actually come down to the flaxroots where everything happens 
    • marsman 19.2

      8 February 2012 at 3:39 pm

      Like the half million dollars Bill English rorted off the tax payer for his housing allowance?
    • Colonial Viper 19.3

      8 February 2012 at 4:54 pm

      $160K is that even enough to buy one of Key’s Ministerial BMWs?
      • james111 19.3.1

        8 February 2012 at 5:38 pm

        The BMWs that Helen Clarke and Heather Simpson signed us up for you mean. I would have thought Helen would have ordered Skodas or Ladas to help the Socialist cause
        • mickysavage 19.3.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 5:42 pm

          Well it is obvious you do not think, and you did not respond to my comment in response to your idiotic comment yesterday.
           
          The BMWs that Helen bought were remarkably cheap and when you factor in the running costs and the savings in fuel were tremendously cheap.
           
          Do you realise how silly your comment is?
           
          At least your spelling is improving.
          • james111 19.3.1.1.1

            8 February 2012 at 5:55 pm

            So why is viper blaming Key for something he didnt even order? Doesnt make sense so you think they are an icredibly good buy because Helen ordered them please tell CV . He doesnt understand your logic
            • Te Reo Putake 19.3.1.1.1.1

              8 February 2012 at 6:12 pm

              Key did order them, you twit. He had the option of renewing the fleet with another round of Beemers or going for something else. Ministers are driving in cars Key ordered. Geddit now?
               
              • Colonial Viper …

                8 February 2012 at 6:30 pm

                Or not even changing them, just keeping them on for another 12-18 months before upgrading

                As is plain for all to see: BMW limos for us, 50c/hour for you
              • james111 …

                8 February 2012 at 8:37 pm

                No they were locked into another great deal stiched up by Helen ,and Heather .Just like the rusty train set we brought back for 750 million when it was worth 300 million. Then it wrote its assets down by over 3 billion dollars last year what a great deal Labour and Winnie left the country
                • RedLogix …

                  8 February 2012 at 9:42 pm

                  Actually the purchase price was $690m and the book value (a wholly different thing) was $350m. Which didn’t stop Toll Holdings asking $1b for it.

                  Values depend very much on what you want to measure: the replacement value of Kiwiarail is vastly greater than $350m, probably in the order of $10b. The land value alone is worth about half that.

                  Comparing market value with book value is a nonsense. But that only ensures you will keep repeating it the rest of your life.
                • wtl …

                  8 February 2012 at 10:20 pm

                  No they were locked into another great deal stiched up by Helen…

                  This is a lie. There was a OPTION to renew on the original contract with no financial penalty for not doing so:

                  http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/68675/govt-orders-new-fleet-of-luxury-ministerial-cars
          • Ianupnorth 19.3.1.1.2

            10 February 2012 at 11:57 am

            Funny that; James111 is your classic RWNJ – troll and run; never responds to a comment, thinks they have the answers but in reality does not have a clue!
            • Drongo 19.3.1.1.2.1

              10 February 2012 at 8:40 pm

              Odgers does the same thing. When asked if she’d passed on or received or shared IP addresses with Slater or anyone else she came back with some irrelevant ambiguous garbage and then when it was squarely and forcefully put to her she ran. Gutless lying racist psycho.
20. Fisiani 20

    8 February 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Winston squirmed today in QT. Crushed by Lockwood’s ruling. Winston is no match for Lockwood. Winston could easily get around Labour’s crappy speakers including the most partisan hack Margaret Wilson.
    Lockwood Smith is easily the most competent Speaker in living memory.
    • Ianupnorth 20.1

      8 February 2012 at 2:59 pm

      LMAO at the use of Lockwood Smith and competent in the same sentence!
      • insider 20.1.1

        8 February 2012 at 4:35 pm

        Take off the ‘all nats bad’ blinkers Ian. Smith has changed the dynamic in parliament which was heavily loaded toward govt under previous speakers. I wonder how long you have been listening to Parliament because you seem to have missed a number of occassions when Brownlee has been exasperated by his rulings and ministers have been told to do their jobs.

        Smith has pushed through quite a few changes in procedure, and has introduced a new ruling that has had a significant effect to the advantage of the opposition which is forcing ministers to ‘answer’ questions, ie put substance in answers where they previously only had to ‘address’. I can’t imagine him playing games with parliamentary procedure like Hunt did when Duynhoven should have lost his seat. He seems much more old school in terms of the speaker working for parliament not for govt (which IMO has led to a few overzealous PR gaffes like banning coverage/journos but we all have flaws). I suspect most senior opposition MPs will have no real issue with him, and you can see that in Mallard’s generally respectful comments about him. he’s hardly one to hold back – and they had some real barneys early on too.
        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1

          8 February 2012 at 4:50 pm

          Lockwood is fine as speaker, but its been a long time since any Speaker has had to deal with someone like Winnie in the House.
          • insider 20.1.1.1.1

            8 February 2012 at 4:56 pm

            Judging by yesterday I think they are both going to enjoy testing each other.
21. the sprout 21

    8 February 2012 at 3:23 pm

    “Lockwood easily the most competent speaker in living memory”

    lol umm yeah, if you’re 3 or have alzheimers
    • higherstandard 21.1

      8 February 2012 at 3:38 pm

      I don’t know he’s clearly better than the three previous speakers but I seem to recall that Peter Tapsell didn’t do too bad a job back in the early nineties.

      He’s probably got a year left before getting an overseas posting to trough at through to his dotage.
    • james111 21.2

      8 February 2012 at 5:42 pm

      So you think Wilson was better would only allow Patsy questions to Labour. When the questions got to tough she stopped them as soon as it looked like it was making a fool of her friends on the left. I will never forget how she stopped the questions on David Benson Pope the Tennis Ball child mugger from Dunedin
      • Dylan 21.2.1

        8 February 2012 at 7:14 pm

        Care to prove she did any such thing as stopping the questions on DBP?
22. tc 22

    8 February 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Without Smith protecting his indept nat ministers especially the primo one there’d have been one humiliation after another all through last term….so competant in that aspect I agree.

    IMO the ‘highlight’ was his ruling that privatisation really meant 100% so as it wasn’t 100% key/blinglish’s answers were OK as that’s not really privatisation on the great SOE flog off.
23. Warren 23

    8 February 2012 at 5:00 pm

    I think Lockwood has proven to be surprisingly competent as a Speaker, given how incompetent he was as a Minister. Let’s face it; the reason he was made Speaker was to get him away from the portfolios to some place he couldn’t do too much damage, in time-honoured parliamentary tradition.
    • Steve 23.1

      8 February 2012 at 8:30 pm

      I thought the topic was Resignation Warren.
      Never mind, go back to National bashing.

      On topic, I wish the Maori Party would show some balls and do what they say instead of granstanding to the MSM. How about it Sharples and Turia? Make noise and bluff?

      John Key has the Smith and Wesson, you have sticks
24. Maui 24

    9 February 2012 at 7:37 am

    Eddie, now that you have raised the issue, Tariana – being Tariana – will probably hang in there like grim death.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS