A matter of integrity

Written By: - Date published: 6:29 am, November 17th, 2011 - 120 comments
Categories: john key - Tags: ,

The Right’s crying we should be talking about policy, not certain tapes. Funny, until recently they were mocking Labour for putting out so much policy. Fact is, we don’t elect policy implementing automatons. We elect leaders for their policies and because we trust them to act with integrity on our behalf. The tea tapes matter because they go to Key’s integrity.

This is the heart of this issue: Key’s integrity.

What did he say to Banks when he thought no-one was listening? Obviously some pretty bad stuff. Politicians should say the same thing in private as in public. If you do that, you have integrity and you won’t have any problems (unless what you say in public and private is consistently batshit crazy, like Brash). If you are a leader who says one thing to the public and another in private, you have no integrity and you have a serious problem if (when) you get caught.

Integrity is also an issue in how Key’s run his response: Trying to bully the media with the Police. Jumping the shark by immorally comparing himself to the family of a murder victim and parents of suicidal teens. Refusing to answer valid questions. Pretending not to remember a conversation he had a few days earlier (if he really doesn’t remember, then it’s a question of his mental integrity, rather than is moral integrity)

Or, as BLiP put it:

  • Day One : There was nothing controversial
  • Day Two: The matter is subject to a police complaint, I can’t talk about it
  • Day Three: I can’t remember
  • Day Four: I’ve moved on

It just isn’t credible.

So, the orders yesterday were to shut it down by refusing to engage. But it turned into a shocker of a day for Key and Banks.

Was Key meant to have a tantrum and storm off? Nah. He was meant to stonewall, provide no more soundbites for the sixes but he cracked. Storming off and later claiming that there was no second stand up for the day, despite it being in the media advisory, wrecked that effort. It was great TV. And it created a new story as people speculated whether it was staged.

And very, very un-Prime Ministerial. When you’re the leader of a country you don’t get to run away when the questions get hard. You have to stand up and answer. That’s a matter of integrity. It’s a matter of doing the job you’re paid to do. Even Hooton think Key’s behaviour was a disgrace.

Then Banks blew a hole in Key’s integrity when he wrecked the cover-up by offering shifting answers to Gower. First said he hadn’t said anything about Brash to Key. Then that he couldn’t remember. Then that he couldn’t say. Then he couldn’t remember what he said to 3news on Monday. Then he could remember his conversation with the PM but couldn’t discuss it. There can be no doubt after that interview that Banks is lying to try to keep the contents of the conversation secret. Therefore, Key is covering up too. Finally settling on ‘I can’t possibly tell you what I said in a conversation with the Prime Minister’ only puts more pressure on Key to front up.

One final point on integrity. Key’s behaviour towards the media has put Garner and the Herald’s integrity on the line. Bad move. The Herald buys ink by the barrel and has 700K readers. Garner is the next de facto leader of the press gallery when Espiner leaves. He won’t put up with being humiliated  and bullied. He doesn’t need to. And Garner has the power in this face-off. He is sitting on the ultimate way to defend his integrity – air the recording. He can do that with the endorsement of the Media Freedom Committee (that’s all the country’s major media organisations) which has declared there is public interest value in the recording.

Key will be hoping now to deny the story further oxygen. He’ll refuse to answer questions. He’ll gamble that the public will turn against the media. But, if Garner thinks that is happening, the recording will come out. It will come out anyway on Sunday. So, the best option for Key to save the tatters of his integrity is, surely, to front up now.

120 comments on “A matter of integrity ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    17 November 2011 at 6:45 am

    This issue is incredible in the way it is morphing and shows what a risky campaign “Brand Key” is.

    Because if he trips then there is no plan B and no alternative campaign.

    I understand Labour’s internal polling shows a surge towards it. The next public poll will be really interesting.

    • In Vino Veritas 1.1
      17 November 2011 at 11:26 am

      micky, I guess that’s also the difference between National and Labours campaigns, National may not have a plan B, but Labour never had a plan A, or any plan.

      As the Whale once said, Phil Goff has the survial instincts of a leeming and the hunting instincts of a sheep.

    • Jasper 1.2
      17 November 2011 at 9:46 pm

      Next poll is Horizon due out from the 21st. Current poll is open and suggest people should sign up to it if they haven’t already.

  2. tsmithfield 2
    17 November 2011 at 7:20 am

    Key may well decide to allow the tape to be aired.

    The thing is that most of the content is out in the public already. The content that has come out is fairly bland, as Key has said, and reflects more poorly on Banks than on him, even though it is being beaten up by all in sundry, and Key has been the target.

    This means that National’s own internal polling will be able to inform them whether or not this is being perceived as a huge media beat-up, or whether it is more serious. If people judging the reported content as trivial nonsense that Key is better to keep away from, he may well pick up a lot of sympathy. However, he can also keep the moral high ground by releasing the tape. He could do this with a statement along the lines of:

    “I deplore having to release the contents of a private conversation. However, this is becoming a distraction when I would rather have people focusing on important issues. Therefore, I have decided to allow the release of the recording. As you will be able to judge, the content is not worth the media hype and speculation.”

    Then he could take a few interviews on the recording.

    It would not be a great loss if it means Act sinks as a result, as they are probably only worth one mp anyway.

    • Kaplan 2.1
      17 November 2011 at 7:40 am

      The contents is no longer the issue. Tens of thousands of swing voters have witnessed Key turn his campaign into amateur hour. Some will back him over privacy some will reject his atrocious handling of the matter.
      Make no mistake, it will cost National votes, the question is just how many.
      As for Act, they are gone.

      • Hami Shearlie 2.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 8:48 pm

        Thanks to BASF Dear John Ad (Of long ago)

        Dear John (B), Oh how we hate to write
        Dear John (B), We must let you know tonight
        That our love for Act has gone
        Cause of the cuppa tea with John (K)
        We don’t want you as our M.P. dear John(B)

        Dear John(K), Oh how your mask has slipped
        Dear John (K) We hope your wings will soon be clipped
        Cos you say one thing to John(B)
        And something else to ancient Don
        You’re really far too slippery Dear John (K)

        Dear Phil, polls yet may turn around
        Dear Phil, John’s(K) real scared and gone to ground
        The media finally see through John(K)
        The blowtorch switch is now turned on
        So good luck for the election
        Dear Phil!!:):):):):):)

    • Lazy Susan 2.2
      17 November 2011 at 7:43 am

      The thing is that most of the content is out in the public already. The content that has come out is fairly bland, as Key has said, and reflects more poorly on Banks than on him, even though it is being beaten up by all in sundry, and Key has been the target

      Agreed that most of the content is possibly already out. However what will be most interesting is the tone and language of the conversation. If this demonstrates Banks and Key have little respect and possibly contempt for the New Zealand public the damage to their brands will be significant. Remember, once in the public domain the “worst” parts of this conversation are likely to be replayed again and again on every TV, Radio Station and website throughout the country. Every newspaper will carry transcripts.

      Whatever happens Key and Act are entering the final round as damaged goods and Key is clearly tired and grumpy. National have nothing other than Brand Key he’s on every billboard and every other Minister has been MIA in this campaign. This is a dream run for the opposition.

      • Puddleglum 2.2.1
        17 November 2011 at 10:52 pm

        I agree, Lazy Susan.

        There are two things that matter: The way Key said these things (including the apparent comment about “getting unbridled power”) and the appalling manner in which he has tried to defend his actions and reactions.

        I have no special powers to determine how New Zealanders, en masse, will react to this. But I know how they should react to this if they have any real concern over the integrity of their political leaders.

        Make no mistake; Key is in a fight for his political life – which depends entirely on a massaged image that bears little resemblance to the reality of Key’s modus operandum.

        It may not unravel before the election – but ‘Brand Key’ is now a thing of the past.

        The phenomenon is over. 

        • Bored 2.2.1.1
          18 November 2011 at 12:09 pm

          Heres hoping: sometimes the tipping point is not obvious at the time, bit like a sports team that gets results but goes over the hill then crashes. Key has however showed the cracks.

    • Scott 2.3
      17 November 2011 at 8:52 am

      That might have worked on Monday, but the tapes are almost irrelevant now. The story is all about National’s management of the issue and that’s been an unmitigated disaster.

    • the sprout 2.4
      17 November 2011 at 9:00 am

      you seem to have made a typo there ts, it should read:

      Key may well decide to allow the tape be forced into a position where he has no other option than for the tape to be aired

      see, that’s not really a choice when you’re forced to do things you don’t want to do

    • mik e 2.5
      17 November 2011 at 9:36 am

      Yeah right the teflon has been permanently damaged
      Now Winston is back in the game
      All the other parties are getting good air time on mainstream media
      Dinosaur Don and the Johns have been flushed
      Its to late to repair damage

      • Jim Nald 2.5.1
        17 November 2011 at 10:22 am

        Quite.
        And the dolt has been heared using the phrase that he was taking a ‘principled stance’. He should know better than to use an expression with which it would be a very challenging exercise to be associated.
        And for the sake of the meaning of those words, he should resist mouthing them – the more he uses those words, the more he cheapens any remaining value left of ‘principles’ that he sells so easily and quickly.

  3. SukieDamson 3
    17 November 2011 at 7:30 am

    Looking forward to reading the Herald choke-o-meter this weekend.

  4. dd 4
    17 November 2011 at 7:52 am

    The question becomes who can Nats form coalitions with.

    I am writing ACT off right now. So that’s them out.

    United future is looking like not making it as well.

    That leaves the Maori party who I am sure would take labour over the Nats.

    I also think Winston would take Labour over Nats. If he holds true he will sit on the opposition and in doing so he would have just taken Nats votes.

    It’s getting interesting.

    • Chris 4.1
      17 November 2011 at 8:40 am

      I would think that the most damaging item on the recording as I understand it would be the comments about the elderly.

      Personally I would think that would cause a swing in votes to NZ First rather than Labour but that’s obviously debatable.

      As you say Winston probably would prefer Labour over the Nats as they are the ones more likely to make the more significant concessions to him, but I wouldn’t put it past him to stick to his guns and go opposition either way thereby meaning no party can get over 50% and form a government – forcing a revote (at least that’s how I understand it would work).

      However saying that if he did do that it would likely cause him to lose all of his support in the revote which isn’t something he would particularly want.

      Either way it has got a lot more interesting now.

      • Pete George 4.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 9:06 am

        Winston had said he wouldn’t work with any party but last night he said he might?

        Whatever, sounds like same old from him, can’t trust what he says before an election.

        • Blighty 4.1.1.1
          17 November 2011 at 9:12 am

          he said he wouldn’t go into coalition and that NZF would vote for and against policies on their merits.

          Isn’t that UF’s position too?

          • Lanthanide 4.1.1.1.1
            17 November 2011 at 9:49 am

            No, Peter Dunne said he’d go into coalition with National but not Labour.

            • Jim Nald 4.1.1.1.1.1
              17 November 2011 at 10:28 am

              Winston supporting on an issue-by-issue basis would put policies ahead of baubles,
              while Dunne should keep his hands on baubles by going into coalition with Nats.

      • aerobubble 4.1.2
        17 November 2011 at 10:04 am

        Given that keeping the media attention is part of the electioneering process,
        Key was probably thinking distraction from Labour policies via teagate
        was a good thing. Thanks to the Green co-leader I got a good chuckle
        at seeing the defaced National advertising. Personally as long as the Greens
        get over 5% I’m happy. My voter card hasn’t arrived yet.
        But on Winston, has Winston won ACT he would have taken
        quite a few MPs and Key’s government coalition would not have been
        so cosy. Now there was a reason Winston was bowled out, 24-7 MSM
        negativity about him. Winston is now a spoiler in my opinion, anyone
        who votes for NZF will worry their vote will be wasted, so Key might
        actually feel bashing the oldies is a good ploy. ACT should implode,
        if rightwing voters in Epson really care more about profits than
        ideology. Key shouldn’t expect a rise in his vote, what has he done
        to earn it???? Why would people doing it hard thanks to rising GST,
        collapsing markets, home prices, and speculators (led by King Speculator
        Key) rorting the world financial system.

        Sorry the only thing Key has going for him, no not his smirk, but the
        MSM media playing up the pollsters saying he is on top, which has
        a feedback which means citizens are less inclide to look at his flaws,
        and flawed policies. Summed up for me by Brash not understanding the
        merits of taxation, stunning how Brash cannot understanding that
        taxing pollution will invigorate innovation to cut pollution. But then
        when most economists seem not to understand that taxing (valuing
        assets more by government edict) actually raises the investment
        value. Think about it a moment, if you tell a child they have to
        do chores for their pocket money, they value the money *MORE*
        and teaches them how hard it was to create the asset. Is it
        no wonder the NZ economy is so badly run when something
        so fundamental complex is treated so simplistically by the self
        professed economic gurus. Tax is not always bad, just as if
        death was done away with (Torchwood) the actual consequences
        mean death camps!!!

        We are serious fr*kked if Key is returned because it will say more
        about our MSM and the gullibility of the voting public.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2
      17 November 2011 at 12:31 pm

      I also think Winston would take Labour over Nats.

      Winston can’t support National. National must sell assets and Winston and NZ1st voter base are totally opposed to that and so that ends any possibility of a confidence and supply agreement between National and NZ1st.

      • aerobubble 4.2.1
        21 November 2011 at 10:16 am

        Winston won’t get 5% because too many voters were burnt last time.
        Second, if Winston did, he would sit it out on the cross benches,
        where he rebuild his brand without Hide to press his buttons.
        Turd, Key’s number crunches have probably realized the current
        numbers are better than any future numbers (keep Key off the
        hustings) them change, distortion, misdirection means talking
        Winston up.

  5. peter 5
    17 November 2011 at 8:17 am

    I had the National candidate for Mangere ring me at home last night trying to sway us to the dark side..

    She is blaming the beastly media for all this fuss, and particularly that well known pro labour mouthpiece the NZ Herald at which point I nearly wet myself laughing.. jeez there are some remarkably stupid people campainging for our votes..

  6. dd 6
    17 November 2011 at 8:18 am

    The scary thing is how strong the love for Key is.

    It’s like he’s got people under a spell of some sort.

    It must be failing horribly on me though. I just dislike him more and more.

    • Peter 6.1
      17 November 2011 at 8:44 am

      He who is disliked the least will win the election. It’s that simple.

    • johnm 6.2
      17 November 2011 at 9:22 am

      Key could make a good living as a hypnotist! he seems to have hypnotised a great many into: “I’m a Key Man”, the slogan on their blue T shirts!

  7. Frida 7
    17 November 2011 at 8:45 am

    @DD I agree! I’ve long been puzzled by the majority nationwide adoration of John Key because personally, to me, and even leaving his dreadful politics aside, he’s always seemed at the best slightly goofy and stupid and at the worst shifty, untrustworthy and slimy.
    And all that the past few days of witnessing him have done is shift me towards constantly having the second impression above. There’s nothing in his eyes, they’re dead.
    I just can’t see the appeal. I’ve tried. But I can’t do it.

    • Blighty 7.1
      17 November 2011 at 8:57 am

      “Some people see JK the smiling, easy going guy. Some see Key, the smiling snake, the con artist. It’s one or the other. Once you see him the second way, you’ll never see him the first way again. So how much damage would be done to Brand Key by this tape coming out?”
      http://thestandard.org.nz/key-banks-chatted-about-rolling-brash/

    • Hami Shearlie 7.2
      17 November 2011 at 10:24 pm

      Money can buy adoration – simple as that!

    • Hanswurst 7.3
      18 November 2011 at 3:15 am

      I have to disagree. It’s not a case of either / or. Key is simply all of the above: goofy, stupid, shifty, untrustworthy and slimy. Always has been.

      Not having lived in NZ for a while, I can’t be sure, but it seems to me that he has always been a pure media creation as well. As far as I can recall, most of those who have been touted as party leadership material have already been publicly visible as capable and respected operators. Bolger, Peters, Shipley, English, Clark, Goff, Cunliffe – all had considerable achievements in policy and/or campaigning before they gained any kind of currency in the media as leadership prospects. Even Brash was noted as Reserve Bank governor and garnered media attention with regards to policy beforebeing seriously mentioned in connection with the leadership.

      Key, on the other hand, was being talked up as Brash’s heir apparent before I had seen him do anything worth noticing. It really did seem to me as though they just found someone who ticked most of the boxes they wanted and then manufactured an image for him. Of course it worked well with the media. Papers love human interest stories; so what better than a party leader who seems to be no more than a constant stream of celebrity barbecues, conversations about cats and visits to the races, with a dash of statehouse upbringing and the odd vasectomy for good measure?

  8. anne 8
    17 November 2011 at 9:07 am

    The ‘teapot’ saga is all about honesty,integrity,the public are feeling disillusioned at key’s ignorance of what is required of a PM,especially 9 days out from an election,is this behaviour a true reflection on how he has been ‘fooling’ the public for 3yrs,his smiles and waves count for
    nothing if a PM has no respect for the public interest issue,has no respect for the office of PM and the high standard expected of the leader of NZ by the public.
    Key said in relation to the ‘video surveillance bill’ “Innocent people have nothing to fear”,so what does Key fear?

  9. ianmac 9
    17 November 2011 at 9:09 am

    Intriguing that the usual right leaning apologists have not been flooding the Standard but instead perhaps Stuff?

  10. Colonial Viper 10
    17 November 2011 at 9:15 am

    Watch the video of the other half of the teapot story: John Banks. He’s falling apart here, contradicting himself, and finally, talks about himself in the third person saying that him losing Epsom is as likely as the world stopping turning.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Banks-stonewalls-on-teapot-tapes/tabid/419/articleID/232979/Default.aspx

    • William Joyce 10.1
      17 November 2011 at 9:49 am

      That Gower interview was absolutely bizarre. He was so cocky that he had not prepared for the interview, anticipated the questions and presented a consistent line. His arrogance has led to him looking like either a slippery snake or the village idiot. (I’m going for the later).
      The interview with Banks in the car park on Monday he sounded like the rainman.
       
      The issue is no longer the content of the tapes but the competence of these clowns.
       

  11. Roy 11
    17 November 2011 at 9:16 am

    It’s a bit worrying what short memories Key and Banks have, isn’t it? Maybe they should be tested for incipient Alzheimer’s?

    • Alwyn 11.1
      17 November 2011 at 2:21 pm

      I am also intrigued by the short memories by the organisers and commenters on this blog.
      Back in mid-June there was a great furore on the Standard becase “Whale-oil” was supposed to have a copy of the Labour Party donations list. This he had, as I understand it, received entirely legally in that it was publicly available, even if by accident, on the Internet. He had not, therefore, hacked into the Labour party website.
      There was an enormous amount of material published here demanding that any publication of the list should not be allowed and that he was a criminal.
      Now that someone has, apparently illegally, intercepted a conversation between Key and Banks there is general agreement here that it must be published. Has everyone forgotten their anguish of just five months ago?
      Personally I strongly disapproved of publication then, which I don’t think ever happened, and publication of this conversation now. I am, I hope, at least being consistent in the matter

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 2:26 pm

        Key and Banks are lying to the public about their post-election arrangment plans, and the voting public need to know about it before the General Election.

        Comparisons with Whaleoil’s website hacking of the details of private citizens is irrelevant.

  12. mik e 12
    17 November 2011 at 9:45 am

    BanKsey Foot firmly in mouth the further it goes in the harder its to come out.
    Brash was having a mild chuckle over the smiling assassins downfall on morning report.
    Revenge is a meal best served cold.
    Karma has caught up with Key but he’s the one not smiling and waving any more love affair media has with shonkey is over and I predict he’ll be gone by lunch time November 27

  13. Colonial Viper 13
    17 November 2011 at 9:48 am

    And ACT leader Don Brash struggled to avoid looking hapless – a task which has looked increasingly hopeless as his new party does its level best to kneecap him.

    Thank you Stuff! Hahaha

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/5982685/Peters-comes-out-firing-in-debate

  14. Dr Terry 14
    17 November 2011 at 9:51 am

    There is little left to say! The words :Key” and “integrity” do not match. I guess he must have accidently stumbled on the word in a dictionary (if he owns a dictionary). Key and Banks have shockingly short- term memories, how can they be trusted representatives? Note how aged Banks is looking these days (and sounding). Banks declares “I am a winner, I never lose”, though he has in fact lost twice the Mayoralty! But I expect he has forgotten this! The attempt at calling, in one place and at one time, both a PUBLIC and a PRIVATE meeting is simply impossible. They could have met privately on a thousand other occasions. Look at the “integrity” of summoning the media, then shooing them out!

  15. Afewknowthetruth 15
    17 November 2011 at 10:02 am

    ‘We elect leaders for their policies and because we trust them to act with integrity on our behalf.’

    That must be one of the the most naive (or stupid) statements I’ve read this year.

    Anyone with a brain knows the art of politics is to ignore all the crucial issues, to lie effectively to the populace, and to mislead them in such a way that they don’t suspect anything is wrong.

    Not one of the party leaders has any integrity: hence the whole election circus is predicated on assiduously AVOIDING DISCUSSION OF ALL THE CRUCIAL ISSUES OF THE TIMES -peak oil, abrupt climate change, the unravelling of the fractional reserve money scam, the ETS money scam etc. -and presenting the public with unworkable policies and PROMISES that can NEVER be fulfilled via ubiquitous use of the phrase ‘we will’, when we know they won’t.

    If the general populace can be kept distracted by trivial nonsense, all the better as far a our so-called leaders are concerned. Just as long as they get well paid for digging the energtic, financial and environmental holes deeper and deeper they are happy.

    There will come the time of complete implosion, of course, at which point people like Key, Goff, Norman, Peters etc. and whichever other criminals and clowns are still alive will then lie to the populace and say: “We could never have known that was going to happen. It was all out of our control.” And a large sector of the ‘idiot’ masses will believe them.

    With peak oil in the past and the chaos in Europe getting worse by the day, all the evidence points to the energetic, economic and financial implosions occurring some time in the next three years, with wide-ranging environmental collapse occurring over the next three decades.

    Okay folks, you can get back to discussing the irrelevant gossip now.

  16. the sprout 16
    17 November 2011 at 10:03 am

    Herald lead story

    “Nats run from Teapot radio interview”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766608

    Stuff

    “Refusal to release tape a bad look”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5982946/Refusal-to-release-tape-a-bad-look-Brash

    • Ianupnorth 16.1
      17 November 2011 at 11:23 am

      There is now a ‘breaking news’ with “Radio NZ refuse to hand over material to police” – links to the same article.
       
      This is only going to get messier for the Nats.

  17. Colonial Viper 17
    17 November 2011 at 10:12 am

    Key smashed on TV3 this morning

    Garner very concerned – shit he may have seen the light!

    http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Duncan-Garner-on-the-teapot-tapes/tabid/370/articleID/233018/Default.aspx

    • Jim Nald 17.1
      17 November 2011 at 10:48 am

      Walk out! Walk out!

      Walk out on your press conference!

      Walk out on the media!

      When you have fucked over the country and Kiwis, walk out on us!

      Yay! Let’s vote for our assets, country and souls to be sold by this rattled Prime Minister!

      • dazed & confused 17.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 12:18 pm

        The hysteria over this in the media and on blogs like thestandard is hilarious..

        • Jackal 17.1.1.1
          17 November 2011 at 4:40 pm

          Documenting Keys absolute PR disaster might look like hysteria… if you support Key?

        • Puddleglum 17.1.1.2
          17 November 2011 at 11:03 pm

          “The hysteria over this in the media and on blogs like thestandard is hilarious.”

          To paraphrase Jarvis Cocker, ‘Don’t see anyone else smiling’ – least of all those on the political right. 

    • In Vino Veritas 17.2
      17 November 2011 at 2:34 pm

      Hmm, amazing how different interpretations can be put on things. Stormed out indeed. Looked like he walked away to me, hardly “stormed”. And I see that Goff has said that Key’s walking out is “unprecedented in my time in politics. I can’t remember a Prime Minister going back to Muldoon that was so brittle that they couldn’t take the heat of answering valid questions from the news media. That’s his job.”

      That would be another Phil Goff lie, since Helen Clark walked out on a news conference in 2007 when she was being interviewed with John Howard, and in 2002, when in a rage, she walked out on ABC interviewer David Hardaker. That’d be brittle then Phil? Way to hang out and dry!

      • Puddleglum 17.2.1
        17 November 2011 at 11:07 pm

        Yes, those comparisons are completely dominating media coverage of this event.

        Must have taken some furious digging to come up with those ‘memorable’ incidents.

        • In Vino Veritas 17.2.1.1
          18 November 2011 at 11:57 am

          Quite so Puddle, it’s never that difficult. I just like to put this stuff here since it appears that no-one else does. For the sake of balance to the debate of course.

  18. the sprout 18
    17 November 2011 at 11:01 am

    😆 looks like Garth George is the only person in NZ left defending John Key’s refusal to release the tape 😆

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766514

    Mai Chen says, along with the rest of the country, that time’s up and it should be released

  19. Afewknowthetruth 19
    17 November 2011 at 11:11 am

    When you have bankers and economists no longer churning out happy-talk you know the end is not far off.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bank-in-warning-on-eurozone-crisis-6262909.html

    Unfortunately the meltdown of the global economic system will come after the NZ election, rather than before it.

    • Lanthanide 19.1
      17 November 2011 at 12:03 pm

      “The worsened prospects for the UK economy mean inflation is likely to fall far quicker than previously estimated, hitting the Government’s 2% target in the second half of next year before falling to as low as around 1.3% in 2013.”

      If the inflation index doesn’t include fuel, then we’re going to have a very odd situation when the oil shocks start to hit where we probably end up with deflation in lots of discretionary items, due to severe demand destruction, inflation in necessities due to transportation costs and obviously massively increased fuel costs.

      I wonder if it’ll all balance out, or if we’ll have high inflation or deflation.

  20. Colonial Viper 20
    17 November 2011 at 11:38 am

    RNZ refuses to handover Teapot tape material to police; Police search warrant expected

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766608

    Hell.

    • tsmithfield 20.1
      17 November 2011 at 12:05 pm

      So I guess the tape won’t be getting published then.

      • Lanthanide 20.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 12:19 pm

        Um, no, the police isn’t confiscating the tapes from them.

        They want copies of additional background information they have, such as RNZ’s interview with Bradley Ambrose.

    • Richard Down South 20.2
      17 November 2011 at 12:07 pm

      Yeah… just saw this

      Police are preparing to serve search warrants on four media outlets over the tea tape saga.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5982946/Police-ask-RNZ-for-unpublished-tea-tape-saga-interviews

      Someone should post it on the net 😉

      • Jim Nald 20.2.1
        17 November 2011 at 12:14 pm

        Lovely to see if ‘Cuppagate’ can be used to shut down media at the height of the election period in modern, progressive New Zealand which is so vibrant democratically.

    • infused 20.3
      17 November 2011 at 12:13 pm

      Someone just released it and end this.

      • lprent 20.3.1
        17 November 2011 at 12:57 pm

        That is a common feeling from almost every side including from me. On the other hand it does provide a very nice stick to keep plastering the hypocrite word all over that nice* nasty Mr Key

        Who was the idiot who said that they should put it in the hands of the police? That is a simply a recipe for a monumental political screwup. I suspect that is what we will see for the rest of the week.

        * oops that was last weeks story wasn’t it.

  21. Afewknowthetruth 21
    17 November 2011 at 11:55 am

    Does anyone seriously believe the global financial system will hang together in the face of the following onslaught? (5 to 17% interest) Clearly the international bond market doesn’t.

    Presumably none of the clowns who are currently parading themselves as leaders would have anything to say, other than blithe reassurances and platitudes, plus advocacy for ‘drilling and mining’ our way out of this mess and into a deeper one.

    ‘The ECB, IMF, EMU, and EU are on the verge of multiple emergency meeting, if indeed meetings are not already underway. A quick check of the following bond spread tables and today’s yield action will explain.

    Across the board, yields and spreads widened significantly today. Note in particular the jump in the 2-year bond yield of Belgium.Also note the inverted spread situation for Belgium.

    The spread to German 2-year bonds is 3.49 while the spread to 10-year bonds is 3.13.

    Sovereign Debt Table 10-Year Bonds
    Country Change Yield Spread
    Germany +.00 1.78 0.00
    France +.26 3.68 1.90
    Spain +.23 6.34 4.56
    Italy +.37 7.07 5.29
    Portugal -.16 11.29 9.51
    Belgium +.32 4.91 3.13
    Ireland +.47 8.21 6.43

    Sovereign Debt Table 2-Year Bonds
    Country Change Yield Spread
    Germany +.00 0.31 0.00
    France +.28 1.82 1.51
    Spain +.31 5.31 5.00
    Italy +.49 6.48 6.17
    Portugal +.27 17.40 17.09
    Belgium +.53 3.80 3.49
    Ireland +.19 8.34 8.03

    Belgium has been off nearly everyone’s radar, but not for long. The EFSF is underfunded for Spain and Portugal alone. It’s now time to add Belgium to the major problem list.

    On second thought, the major problem list now includes every country but Germany’.

    Mike “Mish” Shedlock
    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com

  22. Afewknowthetruth 22
    17 November 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Lanth.

    The most likely outcome will be stagflation. A stagnant (declining) economy, ever higher unemployment levels, with increasing energy prices (as ever more people chase a declining energy supply).

    ‘Rio Tinto Alcan, a subsidiary of FTSE 100-listed Rio Tinto, said it wants to close the Lynemouth smelter in Northumberland due to spiralling energy costs. The group hopes the power station will remain open under new ownership.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/youth-unemployment-breaks-1m-mark-6262890.html

    It always pays to remember that without energy nothing happens and that an industrialised economy cannot function without cheap energy and cheap resources.

    The implosion of industrial living is underway, commencing with resource-poor, overpopulated, industrialised western nations and gradually spreading around the world.

    I know a lot of people find that psychologically unpalatable but mathematics, physics and chemistry just do what they do, irrespective of how people feel about it.

    That’s why it’s so important to become informed about what is happening now and psychologically prepared for what is coming:

    http://www.publishme.co.nz/shop/theeasyway-p-684.html

  23. joe90 23
    17 November 2011 at 1:07 pm

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2011/91307/rnz-faces-search-warrant-over-tea-tape-controversy

    When asked whether his complaint was a good use of police time, Mr Key said National had lowered the crime rate across the country and police had a little bit of spare time.

    • Tiger Mountain 23.1
      17 November 2011 at 1:44 pm

      Stretched constabulary are going to love that line.

    • Hami Shearlie 23.3
      17 November 2011 at 10:37 pm

      WTF isn’t strong enough for this latest murmuring from Key! Everything coming out of his mouth now seems to be “off-key”! So the police had a little bit of spare time, did they? Tell that to people who have been burgled, assaulted, are victims of arson, rape, GBH, spousal assault! Talk about gauche! Key seems to think the police are his own private little regiment! Just like his bodyguards – boy, they’ve turned out to be real knuckle draggers, haven’t they?All hair gel and sunnies, FBI wannabees!

  24. Penny Bright 24
    17 November 2011 at 1:20 pm

    BRAND KEY?

    ‘SHONKY’.

    Never mind the grinning chimpanzee ‘tea party’ – the outcome of which being that the Leader of the National Party John Key, has confirmed that he will be voting for National Epsom candidate Paul Goldsmith – NOT John Banks.

    “John Key says he’s not telling people vote for John Banks but he wants him back in Parliament.

    “In 2005 and 2008 they gave their party vote to National and their electorate vote to the ACT candidate and if they were to do that in 2011 I wouldn’t be unhappy.”

    …………………………

    Questions of hypocrisy are being asked, as John Key is an Epsom voter himself and says he will vote for National candidate Paul Goldsmith.”

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=208845
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    But by some mysterious mechanism (perhaps by reading the tea leaves?) – National Party voters are supposed to deduce that they are not to follow their National Party Leaders’ lead’ – but vote for the National Party “B” Team candidate – Epsom ACT MP – John Banks?

    This is the arguably commercially incompetent John Banks – who, along with ex-Governor of the Reserve Bank Don Brash couldn’t even properly run a Hulich Kiwisaver scheme, but want to help run the country as National Government coalition allies?

    What astute political judgment being shown here by NZ Prime Minister John Key.

    John Banks and Don Brash are the arguably two yet-to-be charged and convicted ‘white collar’ criminals who have yet to feel the force of the ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ they espouse for everyone else – equally applied to themselves?

    Why weren’t John Banks and Don Brash equally charged along with fellow former Director of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd Peter Huljich, for signing off Registered Prospectuses which contained untrue statements?

    If they were effectively protected because of their political connections at the highest levels – isn’t that arguably a form of corrupt practice?

    What I want to know is why there has effectively been a mainstream media ‘blackout’ on my formal request to the Director of the Serious Fraud Office, Adam Feeley, that the same charges that were laid against former Director of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd – Peter Huljich, equally be laid against fellow former Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd – Don Brash and John Banks.

    ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ – sort of thing?

    I note that three years ago – when Rodney Hide made a complaint to the SFO against NZ First – that was accompanied by MAN ON THE MOON headlines?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10529827

    – although it came to nothing and no charges were ever laid by the SFO.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10536944

    Spot the difference.

    Could it be that in NZ, our democracy actually works according to the ‘golden rule’ (those who have the gold make the rules) and we get the government that the majority of BIG BUSINESS interests want us to have?

    The majority of BIG BUSINESS interests are wanting a National/ACT government?

    Want evidence to back that up?

    Check out the Herald On Sunday article (not on line – unfortunately) 13 November 2011, “Biz leaders:policies that pass go”
    Susan Edmunds.

    KEY points:
    __________________________________________________________________________

    FAVORITE POLICY: ONE

    Partial sale of state-owned assets (National)

    Employers and Manufacturers CE, Kim Campbell
    __________________________________________________________________________

    FAVORITE POLICY: ONE

    Partial sale of state-owned assets (National)

    Auckland Chamber of Commerce CE, Michael Barnett
    _________________________________________________________________________

    FAVORITE POLICY TWO:

    Partial sale of state-owned assets (National)

    Business Round Table Chairman, Roger Partridge
    _________________________________________________________________________

    LEAST-FAVOURED POLICY

    National awards system (Labour)

    Employers and Manufacturers CE, Kim Campbell
    ______________________________________________________________________

    LEAST-FAVOURED POLICY

    Capital Gains Tax (Labour)

    Auckland Property Investors Association Head, David Whitburn
    ____________________________________________________________________

    LEAST-FAVOURED POLICY

    Lifting the minumum wage (Labour)

    Business Round Table Chairman, Roger Partridge
    ____________________________________________________________________

    LEAST-FAVOURED POLICY

    Extension of the Working for Families tax credit (Labour)

    No GST on fruit and vegetables (Labour)

    Wellington Chamber of Commerce CE, Ken Harris

    _____________________________________________________________________

    hmmmm……………. wonder if this has had anything to do with mainstream corporate media (until VERY recently) usually portraying ex-Wall St bank$ter and former Head of Derivatives for Merrilly Lynch – John Key in the most favorable possible light, and Labour Leader Phil Goff in the worst possible light?

    A fair question – isn’t it?

    Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    Campaigning against ‘white collar’ CRIME, CORRUPTION (and its root cause – PRIVATISATION) and ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’

    [email deleted]

  25. gnomic 25
    17 November 2011 at 1:39 pm

    It’s not all bad for the smirking weasel. There is a school of thought amongst the populace who put themselves in the weasel’s shoes, and dread the thought of their real attitudes being made public. Many of these are probably committed National voters however, any loss of support will come from the waverers.

    As to the weasel’s popularity, much of it presumably stems from his being wealthy to the extent of likely never needing to work again. This makes him akin to a god in the eyes of many among us, the attainment of the Kiwi dream. It also bestows upon him an aura of competence. Then there is the ‘good bloke’ syndrome, the weasel is one of us, he thinks like us, and is a nice personable guy. As he is actually more or less a void, the punters can make him into what they want him to be.

    At least the schlemiel isn’t smirking quite so much of late. The smirk was unbearable. Here’s hoping he’s no longer sleepwalking to victory. And may we also dare to hope that Banksie (himself now an old age pensioner I believe) will fail in Epsom and finally vanish into well-deserved obscurity with the work he has left to do undone.

    Maybe the weasel’s spell is broken.

  26. randal 26
    17 November 2011 at 1:43 pm

    John Key is a postmodernist sufering from juvenile omnipotence syndrome.
    i.e.
    a.only his own truths count.
    and
    b. he makes up his own truths.
    so when the truth is revealed he has no integrity because he doesn’t really know what the word means.

  27. anne 27
    17 November 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Also in the tea pot recordings is the expectation that key would have ‘Unbridled Power’ how dangerous for nz is that?

  28. Fortran 28
    17 November 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Would somebody who knows what is on the tape please tell me.

    I think you will find that Winston is lying about what he “knows” is on the tape. But that’s Winston.

    The police should be contacting him as he maintains that he knows.

    • lprent 28.1
      17 November 2011 at 2:07 pm

      Chortle… I read your comment about the police contacting Winston and started laughing.

      The image of the police trying to push around Winston who has a bad enough attitude in politics, in a legal setting (he is a lawyer) is pretty damn funny. I’d like to be a fly on the wall.

      • Hami Shearlie 28.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 10:45 pm

        “The Winstonian Institute” as I like to call him, would be more than a match for John’s Keystoners! Winston is like the Terminator, he’ll be back! Parliament will be much more entertaining!

    • Colonial Viper 28.2
      17 November 2011 at 2:09 pm

      Why doesn’t John Key just come clean in that case and knock Winston out for a six?

  29. Treetop 29
    17 November 2011 at 2:08 pm

    “Unbridled Power” how dangerous for nz is that?

    A police state. Using the police to gag the media is a slippery slope.

    Key has stated that the police are independent.

    How independent?

  30. mike 30
    17 November 2011 at 2:30 pm

    Police to execute search warrants to get the tapes today or tomorrow.

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/11746875/media-targeted-by-police-over-teapot-tape/

    Winston says he will reveal all in Invercargill today.

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/11747640/winston-peters-to-reveal-contents-of-tape/

    • mike 30.1
      17 November 2011 at 3:47 pm

      “Mr Key also made a remark that Winston Peters’ constituents are dying and that he believes National could get enough votes on election day to govern alone.”

      So nothing new here really. But if true that’s a callous or even contemptous thing to say. Our PM is supposed to support all NZ citizens, not just the NAct supporters. To say “don’t worry Banksie, those NZ citizens will be dead soon, then they’ll be out of our way,” i.e. it will be good for us when they are dead, is truly disgraceful. And this man is our ‘leader’.

      Would that qualify as public interest? I’d say so.

  31. Insider 31
    17 November 2011 at 2:59 pm

    What if John Key and John Banks discussed policy concessions? If National had secretly agreed to not keep its election promises and implement Act policy instead doesn’t the public have a right to know? Doesn’t the public interest outweigh the privacy of that conversation?

  32. freedom 32
    17 November 2011 at 3:25 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766703
    ” He acknowledged that the possibility of an overseas post was raised with Brash when National first took office but he had not had “a conversation on that in recent times to the best of my knowledge.” ”

    is there anytihng that John Key does remember doing saying or thinking , ever ?

  33. anne 33
    17 November 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Its confirmed all the national trolls are on the stuff site, they are in damage control, key says he can get police on it because crime is down 7%,another ridiculous statement from the PM, hopefully he wont get the ‘Unbrideled power’ he was aluding to .

  34. dd 34
    17 November 2011 at 4:26 pm

    How can New Zealand be so stupid?

    It’s actually getting me down

    • Tombstone 34.1
      17 November 2011 at 6:01 pm

      Yeah, it’s strange but I feel the same way – the stupidity of Kiwis and their love affair with Key in spite of the fact that the country has gone seriously backwards since he’s been in power is just mind boggling. Loyalty to a party is one thing but this seems to be more about blind faith and anything goes so long as it’s National doing it or failing to do it – it’s just absolutely nuts. I mean, you only have to look at their campaign and listen to Key talk about policy and his slant on things and it’s just a total yawn fest. I’m a welder fabricator and I work bloody hard but under National the whole ‘we reward those who work hard’ speil is just a load of nonsense. Key is a dick. Goff on the other hand has remained poised, focused and you can tell he’s a decent bloke and by gum he’ll be getting my vote there’s no doubt about that! He’s done a great job on the campaign and he should be proud.

      • Draco T Bastard 34.1.1
        17 November 2011 at 7:15 pm

        …but under National the whole ‘we reward those who work hard’ speil is just a load of nonsense.

        Actually, it’s an outright lie. National will only reward those who are more powerful than them (kissing arse) and those who kiss their arse. Everyone else will be denigrated in some way or other.

    • Hami Shearlie 34.2
      17 November 2011 at 10:51 pm

      I know how you feel DD! The most pathetic was the polynesian woman who was going to vote Labour but “John Key touched me, so now it’s National!” Must be from a renegade clan from the Appalachian Mountains!

  35. Tombstone 35
    17 November 2011 at 5:33 pm

    “An under-pressure John Key has suggested a recent fall in the crime rate meant police had ”spare time” to investigate the so-called tea tape.” – I mean FFS! This guy just gets worse and worse and worse. He will say anything and I agree with the original post – this is about integrity when it comes down to the nitty gritty and how anyone can still believe that Key has integrity is beyond me. It couldn’t be more obvious that he doesn’t.

  36. Deuto 36
    17 November 2011 at 6:05 pm

    The cameraman has now filed for a determination on whether it was a private conversation or not. Good on him.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5982946/Journalist-takes-tea-tape-saga-to-court

  37. Rob 37
    17 November 2011 at 6:15 pm

    What was that about the emperors new clothes?

  38. anne 38
    17 November 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Good,the reporter is now taking his case to court and has a lawyer to make a ruling and clear his name, these polls are perplexing,people must still be in love with key.

    • ianmac 38.1
      17 November 2011 at 6:53 pm

      That would be good if the court promptly rules that it was not subject to privacy laws. But the wheels turn slowly, like a few months, then there are the appeals, then retrospective legislation making it unlawful for anyone to tape or record Mr Key unless he edits their take…..

  39. Dan1 39
    17 November 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Key and integrity= antonym!

  40. monty 40
    17 November 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Yes Micky Savage, the next public polls were really interesting -Colmar Brunton and TV3 put Labour at the lowest it’s been in 10 years. Keep pushing the “teapot” scandal -it’s working wonders for Labour!

    • Lanthanide 40.1
      17 November 2011 at 10:23 pm

      I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the teapot scandal is going to directly benefit Labour.

      Clearly the teapot scandal is damaging National and ACT. I’m not sure I’d expect to see National’s poll figures drop, but it could result in a lower turnout than otherwise (National voters who no longer prefer Key to lead National).

      Pushing ACT out of parliament, especially if it results in NZFirst coming back in, significantly helps the left’s chance of winning the election though.

  41. John 41
    17 November 2011 at 7:39 pm

    This new “glass wall” shield of privacy is gonna be fun. Today I told my boss to fuck himself, behind a glass wall and if he heard, naughty boy, if it’s behind a glass wall i can tell him to get FUCKED!!! Thank you new wall of glass privacy shield. Just carry some glass around with you and pop it out and say what the fuck you want. Works for the Prime Minister, it’s a new law decreed by King John, fuck the democratic system, fuck the media.

    Please for the sake of basic free media principles publish this conversation, and hey media , we may even buy your paper if you print information we have a right to know less than 2 weeks to a very important election. It’s King John versus the riff-raff. He’s just hoping the riff-raff don’t outvote him.

    We need to know what our leader is doing negotiating with fringe right wing parties. Please publish now, for medias own integrity and (financial)future. The truth sells. Someone paper needs position themselves as a champion of 2012-2022 masses.

  42. dd 42
    17 November 2011 at 7:55 pm

    The swing is on I reckon. The Key factor is getting broken down.

  43. appleboy 43
    17 November 2011 at 8:00 pm

    The real damage in these tapes will not be the actual content…but the tone. Key has a manufactured ‘nice guy’ image that will be undermined by:

    the ‘this is what he’s like for real’ tone of the conversation…

    the cynical banter about the elderly…

    being seen to be plotting the change and leadership inside another party..

    the egotistical boasting that he thinks they will govern alone… (itself a guarantee of a drop in support, as most people outside of National core support won’t like unbridled power of one paryy.

    all very dirty stuff that will help shed support to the mid 40’s than ks to their reliance on one person’s image rather than say policy or good economic management.

    A week, as they say, is a long time in politics.

  44. dd 44
    17 November 2011 at 8:42 pm

    If you were labour what do you do from here?

    People just don’t seem to be getting the asset sales issues. I think Goff has to ask Key in the debate how much money he gives to charity. I have heard a lot of people hide behind that as a reason he’s a nice guy.

    But to the best of my knowledge there’s zero evidence of this?

    • Hami Shearlie 44.1
      17 November 2011 at 10:57 pm

      Agreed. From what I understand JK said a portion went to charity – well, a portion could be $5.00 couldn’t it? The NZ Herald Business section a few years ago published the fact that JK didn’t have a mortgage, but went out and got one so he could claim a parliamentary allowance for one. Doesn’t sound like someone who would share his largesse does it?

  45. mike 45
    17 November 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Agreed sometimes it’s not what you say but how you say it.

    This is clearly hurting National, but by how much is not clear. However it’s not helping Labour either, they lost ground in the latest poll. The winners seemed to be the Greens, Winston, and incredibly, ACT (although jumping from 0.9% to 1.9% probably isn’t champagne territory).

  46. John 46
    17 November 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Last election most of the polls averaged about 2.5% for NZ First and they got 4.1% which statistically given the amount of polls there is a statistical collection problem, especially given that 5% is the point of entry to our highest chambers.

    The polls missed 1.6% of the vote consistently. Or that’s a poll day swing. So National are hanging on to a one or two point game. The Opposition needs to hammer that key is trying to develop a “robs mob” , his hero is muldoon, he’s stated that. We’ve been here before.

  47. Afewknowthetruth 47
    17 November 2011 at 10:54 pm

    And in the REAL world the fires of Europe are burning brighter by the day and new ones are springing up all over the place ….. so-called contagion.

    Bearing in mind that ‘official’ interest rates are around 1% and so-called economic growth is supposedly around 1% does anyone see a problem?

    ‘8.59am: Spanish government bonds have been hit hard in early trading, again.

    The yield on the Spanish 10-year bond has spiked to 6.6% — that’s a new record high for the euro era, and worryingly close to the 7% mark. Italian yields also rose again (hitting 7.12%).

    France is also shifting higher – with its 10-year yield reaching the 3.8% level.

    Not encouraging, ahead of France and Spain’s bond auctions. Peter O’Flanagan of Clear Currency commented that:

    The question remains, how long can Eurozone sovereigns be squeezed before the ECB steps in?’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2011/nov/17/eurozone-crisis-banks-debt-auction-contagion

    Obviously another round of creating money out of thin air is urgently required, both in Europe and in this part of the world. After all, ‘deficits and debts don’t matter’, as long as the proles don’t realise or understand what is going on.

    • Bored 47.1
      18 November 2011 at 12:06 pm

      Have a gink at Theautomaticearth.blogspot.com where it is plainly stated (as it was with Max Keiser) that the governments of Greece and Italy have been replaced by unelected technocrats (who are banksters or their tools). What a joke, outright rebellion to follow.

      • Colonial Viper 47.1.1
        19 November 2011 at 8:25 pm

        +1

        the new ‘leaders’ in Greece and Italy are either former central bankers (ECB/NY Fed), or former Goldman Sachs executives. I shit you not.

        Oh yeah I just read that the new head of Italy, Monti, is a Bilderberg member and also chairman of the Trilateral Commission. Italy is fucked, they are now in the process of losing all their gold at dirt cheap prices.

  48. anne 48
    19 November 2011 at 8:22 pm

    It has occured to me that the reason the national politicians are absent is because key and his
    minders dont trust them enough to have a voice,hell they aren’t even turning up to meetings
    in their own electorates,which shows they haven’t got anything new or ‘dinimic’ to say and the
    voters dont need to know anyway,because it’s not their business what national are going to do.
    Its all about :

    I———llicit
    N——–otorious
    T——–oxic
    E——–vasive
    G——- arble
    R——–aider
    I———lliberal
    T——–hird-rate
    Y——–JK why kick the hell out of those who need you to be honest and upfront.

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