Ardern backs students striking for climate change

Written By: - Date published: 7:43 am, March 15th, 2019 - 70 comments
Categories: australian politics, climate change, democratic participation, disaster, Environment, global warming, jacinda ardern, Judith Collins, labour, science - Tags:

As is usual this morning I woke up listening to Radio New Zealand’s Morning Report.

Two of the stories highlighted to me the problem humankind is having grappling with climate change.

The first mooted New Zealand having a space hub for private rockets engaged in sending uber rich tourists to outer space for the experience and talked how it may be possible in ten years.

The second was about a ten billion dollar project to have an elite rugby competition.

They both jarred.  Imagine burning all that fuel or wasting all that money for so little.  And ten years may be all the time we have to address climate change.

The response of some of our politicians has been underwhelming.  National has been typically obstructionist as exemplified by this from Judith Collins:

National Party MP Judith Collins was dismissive of the protest action.

“Their little protest is not going to help the world one bit,” she said.

Chris Hipkins was meh.  As was ALP leader Bill Shorten, who thought the kids should strike after hours.

But Jacinda has come out in support.  In comments that have been reported by Reuters but not locally for some reason she has said this:

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern gave her support on Wednesday to a youth movement urging government action to tackle climate change ahead of protests by students across the world later this week.

Thousands of school children in Australia and New Zealand intend to skip school and protest on Friday as part of similar action by students worldwide taking their cue from 16-year-old Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg.

“Don’t underestimate the power of your voice,” the 38-year-old Ardern told local organizers of the protests and students during a live debate at a college in Wellington.

“Too often we make this assessment that to make an impact we have to be of voting age. That is not the case,” she said.

She correctly said that whether students should be striking during school time was a decision for them and their parents.

And she noted the change in tone of the debate from denial to obstruction.  Again from Reuters:

Ardern said great strides had been made in attitudes towards climate change over the years.

 

She said she was booed by an audience 10 years ago for speaking about climate change, which she has described as her generation’s “nuclear free moment”.

“Now people are not debating whether we should do something. Now they are just debating how fast or what we need to do. And that is a big change,” she said.

“What we do now needs to last to 2050 and beyond. So we have a much higher chance of doing that if we bring everyone with us,” she said.

I hope many do decide to take part in this most crucial of movements.  And realise the importance of politics.  And the need for progressives to win this battle against obstructionist and conservative opposition.

Details of the strikes can be found here.

70 comments on “Ardern backs students striking for climate change ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Incognito 1
    15 March 2019 at 7:51 am

    Perhaps the PM wanted to avoid ‘addressing’ Kiwis more directly and creating a perception of ‘official’ endorsement or approval.

  2. Cinny 2
    15 March 2019 at 7:55 am

    All the best to the youth of NZ and the rest of the world, who have painted signs and organised protests, makes me feel very proud they are speaking out about the future of our planet.

    Looking on the FB there will be thousands attending in some cities (thanks for the link).

    If people are worried about their safety, then don’t, no doubt they will be joined by adults who feel the same and the media will be there. In fact they will probably be safer at the protests then walking home from school.

    Any wise teachers whose students will be involved could turn it into a learning module on democracy and climate change.

    Looking forward to the coverage on the news tonight.

    • marty mars 2.1
      15 March 2019 at 10:21 am

      + 1 Yes spoke to my 11 year old son about this last night. He is adamant he wants to do this action. We discussed protesting and I described the anti tour protests I did and why I did them. So proud of my boy being interested in this action.

  3. Observer Tokoroa 3
    15 March 2019 at 8:15 am

    Youth – And Climate Change

    I have absolutely no idea why National Supporters want to burn our kids in Oil, and Pollution and Climatic Disaster.

    The National Supporters want their Kids to skip school and watch ugly games – where they can get their heads bashed in and mashed.

    So it’s okay to be stupid if you are an adult National School Teacher.

    That Great National Goof – Mrs Judith Collins – has spoken : Dismissive as ever about the student Strike for common Climatic sense, She announced today : “Their little protest is not going to help the world one bit,”

    Mrs Collins in her endless years of pretending to be a politician has never done anything to help the world – ever. She is a destroyer. Look at what she has done to New Zealand this past 10 years. And the many years before that.

    National and its weird Politicians do not want a A strike for Common sense on Climate. They are making $Billions for themselves. They Hate The Youth.

    John Key (the Disaster), and Billy English ( the Dope ) announced several times that NZ Youth are “Hopelessly Useless.” Ref 1917 Oh Yeah – you two Nitwits !

    • gsays 3.1
      15 March 2019 at 2:00 pm

      “I have absolutely no idea why National Supporters want to burn our kids in Oil, and Pollution and Climatic Disaster”

      C’mon, it’s because of the fear that any real action may effect their bottom line.

  4. Rapunzel 4
    15 March 2019 at 8:38 am

    And as finally mentioned with a lot of vitriol being in evidence from lots of media commentators, one recalled all the times the he and other pupils were encouraged to go on school days to welcome back various sports teams and that incl at the railway station the Wellington team with the Ranfurly Sheild.
    Seemed to be no problem with that being an issue.

  5. Ad 5
    15 March 2019 at 9:05 am

    Most respectfully Mickey, can we get some actual young people to talk on this?

    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      15 March 2019 at 9:19 am

      I’m with the PM on this – and we were told by a respondent here not long ago that blogs have been sidelined by the twitteratti, so that would explain why there’s no evidence that anyone young comments here.

  6. esoteric pineapples 6
    15 March 2019 at 9:06 am

    “Well, the simple answer is mass denial. We know from history that human beings are not very good at accepting a truth. It’s only human to want to deny it because it is a terrible situation. We all do this in our personal lives. You know, there is something coming up which we know is true but for a while we pretend is not true. So I think that is the main problem here.”

    “The point here is that we are not going to be dealing rationally with this problem. I mean, the idea that we are all going to just suddenly wake up and decide to do the right thing is a bit of a liberal illusion. I think the most predictable path, is that we are going to slide into fascism. And the reason for that is because the elites are going to attempt to protect their interests in the face of ever greater stress. And when that happens, you get authoritarian solutions. We have seen that around the world in the last ten years, and increasingly the rich and powerful will fund right wing movements and they will start to hollow out democracy, because their main interest is protecting their won wealth and power. Obviously this is a completely suicidal mission because it is only going to end in their own destruction anyway, but you can see the logic of it. And what that means for people who are progressive or claim to be liberal, is that you have got to make a choice. Because it is not going to get any easier with every year that goes on. Either we are going to sort this thing out with some major distress and upheaval, or we are going to go into a complete social hell.”

    • AB 6.1
      15 March 2019 at 10:00 am

      “elites are going to attempt to protect their interests in the face of ever greater stress”

      This is a grim view, but I can’t help seeing it as a strong possibility.
      It took the great depression and 50 million deaths in WWII to shake capitalism sufficiently to give us a 35-year respite (1945-80) from its excesses. And that respite was temporary and easily overturned from the 1980’s onwards.
      Is there any reason to think it will be easier this time around? How many deaths will it take from the climate crisis before elite interests can be set aside?

    • Philj 6.2
      15 March 2019 at 1:15 pm

      In Wellington, the Pollies spoke, Robertson and Shaw and were met with modest support. Nicola Young represented National. She proclaimed that she wasn’t an expert in this field, but clarified the situation by saying, as a ‘ mother of four children’ she was concerned in finding a solution that would be in line with other countries. Or words to that effect. She was booed at one point and shouted down. It was sad and exhilarating to witness the passion at this gathering. One placard read, ” why get edumacated wenn guvment duznt lissen to the edukated? “

    • Incognito 6.3
      15 March 2019 at 10:46 pm

      Ok, about those so-called elites. They are “the few”, for starters, meaning there are only a very few of them.

      They were not born on Krypton, they don’t have super-human powers, they are not mutant X-Men, and they have the same DNA and are of the same flesh & blood as we are.

      If the non-elite, if we collectively disagree with the “elite” and their wishes go against our wishes then it should be no contest.

      So, the question is where does their imaginary power come from and where does it rest? How can they (en)force us to go against our own wishes and best interest? What magical powers do they use?

      The answer is actually remarkably simple but clearly not that obvious although the curtain is slowly being lifted …

      I’m delighted that people protested today and drew attention to the cause – there’s growing hope.

    • Saintarnuad 6.4
      18 March 2019 at 7:09 am

      Ecoside, my goodness the extreme left climate change crowd just just love their single word phases.
      I guess by shouting and screaming abuse people are meant to listen to these flat earth climate change believers.
      Serious, if they believe so strongly that mankinds impact upon the world is so great, surely they would sacrifice themselves to save the planet.

      Perhaps an on mass euthenasia by all true followers of climate change…leed by example, in stead of just by words for a change.

      [I appreciate your modest proposal has a satirical aspect, but please do not post this sort of thing. Only warning. TRP]

    • Robert Guyton 6.5
      18 March 2019 at 7:24 am

      At this time of the day, early morning, the only sound heard on some lonely lakes, is the cry of the loon.

  7. WILD KATIPO 7
    15 March 2019 at 9:11 am

    Well , if anything, it will be a valuable life lesson in freedom of speech issues and personal involvement in politics. Now that cant be a bad thing at all. And the day they all went to demonstrate will be something they’ll always remember. As they grow they will realize the significance of that and that they can have a say and a stake in issues..The only ones who will fear this are the ones who wish to have a dumbed down, complacent and politically disinterested youth.

    So from that angle , – support.

  8. BM 8
    15 March 2019 at 9:39 am

    A far more effective action would be for these kids to walk or cycle to school, instead of Mum or Dad dropping them off in the SUV.
    But you know, OMG, hat hair and I could get wet.

    This is nothing more than a Friday afternoon off school, typical virtue signalling left wing bullshit that achieves nothing.

    • Dennis Frank 8.1
      15 March 2019 at 9:57 am

      I’m tempted to agree, but there is actually an upside to virtue-signalling. It helps youngsters to form a political identity for themselves in their formative years. That’s good, if the virtue basis is sound.

      I do agree that group-think is the obvious downside. People just have to learn from experiencing that downside. Learning from personal experience is ultimately the best kind of learning. I partly share the apprehension of the right that teachers project their moral judgments onto students, but we need to give the kids the option of using their critical factulties to evaluate & judge the bullshit within that projection.

    • RedLogix 8.2
      15 March 2019 at 9:59 am

      Haha BM. It’s something sad the way overprotective parents feel obligated to drive kids to school these days. Some of my best memories of those years come from those moments.

      Still I’m rather proud of these children, their actions today might not have any directly measurable effect, but it is powerfully symbolic. The story of the Emporerers New Clothes comes to mind.

      • BM 8.2.1
        15 March 2019 at 10:13 am

        The irony of every parent dropping their kid/kids off at school because

        It’s too dangerous to ride a bike to school as there are so many cars on the roads especially around schools!!!

        isn’t lost on me.

      • Rapunzel 8.2.2
        15 March 2019 at 12:47 pm

        Exactly! After a week of allowing the youngster I have cared for all week to “scooter” a wee way to school after much pleading had me drop him a couple of streets away the returning parent (away for the week for work) said they weren’t that happy with that arrangment so it was back to “nearly to the gate” today.!

    • KJT 8.3
      15 March 2019 at 10:05 am

      Do you have to be so boringly predictable?

      Surely the right wing can afford some more interesting, mouthpieces/parrots?

    • Anne 8.4
      15 March 2019 at 10:09 am

      The kids who get dropped off to school in SUVs are the dead-beat offspring of dead- beat parents who think they own the streets, the pavements and everywhere else. They are (in the main) rich, selfish, self-serving, arrogant types who believe everyone else owes them a living. They are the kind of people you think should be running the country.

      The rest of the country’s kids catch buses/trains, ride bikes and walk to school just like my generation used to do. They are the ones who are going to be our future leaders and all hail to them! I hope they have a very successful day.

      • Molly 8.4.1
        15 March 2019 at 10:13 am

        “The kids who get dropped off to school in SUVs are the dead-beat offspring”
        Really, they are just kids getting dropped off at school. They are still forming their own personalities separate from family. They deserve some slack for having the possible disadvantage of financial security that stops them from growing.

        • Anne 8.4.1.1
          15 March 2019 at 10:38 am

          I live opposite a school where a lot of the children have parents who belong to the SUV brigade. I’ve been observing both the parents and their off-spring for years. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but my views have been confirmed many times over.

          Sorry it doesn’t fit in with your view but mine isn’t going to change.

          • Molly 8.4.1.1.1
            15 March 2019 at 6:36 pm

            Fair enough. But reading this sounded very similar to tirades I listen to about poor people – brown mostly – and their children, and struck a nerve. Both sound equally ugly to me.

    • mac1 8.5
      15 March 2019 at 10:23 am

      ‘virtue-signalling’ is a pejorative term. Let’s get that right. It’s a form of ad hominem attack.

      What the use of it tells me more, as does much abuse, about the abuser than the target of the abuse.

      In this case, how the right just hate being told how they are ethically, morally or socially wrong.

      And these ‘kids’ are in the right, I believe. I’m going to join them at 12.30 and relive my glory days of the later Sixties when we protested the Vietnam War, Rugby Tours, Omega stations and American bases at Harewood.

      And weren’t we right then!

    • AB 8.6
      15 March 2019 at 10:46 am

      “that achieves nothing”

      This is the ‘commonsense’ view, but it’s true only in a fairly narrow sense. The protest will not directly lower C02 emissions. We will still be in the crap tomorrow despite the protest.
      The achievements will lie in what the students learn. Mainly they will learn what they are up against:
      – condescension and cynical belittling of their principles e.g. they may be accused of “virtue-signalling”, which suggests that wanting to do good in the world is never genuine, it’s just a desire to look good
      – authoritarian control by people with power. They will be told that they should be in school and they are risking their education and the possibility of getting a good job, i.e. that economic survival depends on obedience
      – deflection and undermining. They will see that calls for collective action will be undermined by scrutiny of the personal behaviour of the people advocating it. They will be told to walk to school, stop eating meat, etc. as though perfection of the self was a necessary precondition to speaking out, and that isolated, individual choices are the only option and collective action is impermissible

      If these things are learned, a great deal is achieved.

      • Anne 8.6.1
        15 March 2019 at 11:04 am

        The achievements will lie in what the students learn. Mainly they will learn what they are up against:…

        Precisely. Anyone who marched back in the late 60s, 70s and early 80s will know what that means. But in the end that generation were the winners. Let’s hope this new generation will be even more successful. The world depends on them.

        • Stuart Munro. 8.6.1.1
          15 March 2019 at 2:53 pm

          Yes, this is a lot of the point. The prevailing views on “what is to be done” are often formed with surprisingly little thought, (Waynes 30% of GDP for example)but those who hold them aren’t really ready to exchange them for something better, which would require tiresome mental processing.

          The kids have some reason to be concerned, and to tell their representatives that kicking the can down the road really won’t cut it anymore. Those who will be inconvenienced are naturally annoyed, how dare their complacent democratic citizens have an opinion!.

      • Stunned Mullet 8.6.2
        15 March 2019 at 1:51 pm

        Some will learn these things others, judging by a lunchtime wander on Queen Street, are learning where the best shops on Queen Street are and where the cheapest drinks and fast food is.

        • Anne 8.6.2.1
          15 March 2019 at 3:06 pm

          Come on Stunned.
          I remember doing the same thing after an anti-nuclear march up Queen St. We were hungry and thirsty. Guess we were on a bit of a high after the march too. It’s not every day they get to stroll along Queen St. on a week day. Give them credit for being there and a bit of slack for enjoying themselves afterwards.

    • Saintarnuad 8.7
      18 March 2019 at 7:16 am

      Couldn’t agree more.
      Nothing more mad Marxists attempting to infect our children’s minds with a twisted manifesto.
      It’s a sickness really, as it’s no more than grooming a child, in the same mind control manner as sexual peado’s
      There are many practical ways to help our environment without infecting our children’s minds with climate extremism dogma from the far left.

      [There’s a mod note on an earlier one of your comments. Read it. You are a few words away from a lengthy ban, so pull your head in. TRP]

      • Robert Guyton 8.7.1
        18 March 2019 at 7:28 am

        “There are many practical ways to help our environment”
        Can you list some of the ways you are helping the environment, Saintarnaud?
        That would be encouraging to anyone unsure about what best to do.
        Thanks

  9. francesca 9
    15 March 2019 at 11:05 am

    Just come back from the Golden Bay High kids protest, organised by a 13 year old girl (third generation from hippie days)
    Pretty impressive, big turnout, great placards and chants, march in to town, now theyre going round the local businesses to talk to them about urgency of carbon zero , plastic etc and are going to attend and speak at the public forum of the Community Board.

  10. Anne 10
    15 March 2019 at 11:27 am

    Sean Plunket
    @SeanPlunket
    Happy international truancy day #schoolstrike4climate

    This dinosaur is taking it hard.

    • Rapunzel 10.1
      15 March 2019 at 12:55 pm

      I have hope driving home today that Peter Williams has disappeared from that station’s morning show for good. Despite being mainly a sports reporter Brendan Telfer offered welcome relief from the bitter, bigoted stance of the show hosts that have hijacked almost the entire daytime broadcast of that station and the associated television breakfast show.
      Williams is to be away again next week, my reckon is that has to even pay small lip-service to a view other than his own may have become tiring very quickly and if he was required to allow everyone’s opinion to be fairly heard he decided it was not for him. Or maybe he is being re-trained his views that over-rode almost everything else were quite emotive much of the time and often inaccurate and not well researched to beyond the personal opinions he holds.

    • Robert Guyton 10.2
      15 March 2019 at 6:36 pm

      Dinosaur?
      Coprolite.

  11. alwyn 11
    15 March 2019 at 11:41 am

    I listened to the year 13 student from Western Springs College being interviewed by Guyon Espiner this morning on Morning Report. It is online, starting at 7.14am
    He sounded perfectly sensible and knowledgeable at the beginning. However after abour 2 minutes he started making quite ridiculous comments. They were things like claiming that the arable land in the UK was being destroyed and that in less than 30 years NO food would be able to be grown there. Then he continued by claiming that reports from Canada, the US and Europe showed that there would be NO fish left in the oceans in less that 30 years. His conclusion was that we were all going to starve.

    Where has he been getting these extreme ideas? They are as foolish as Al Gore’s wild statements that the Arctic Ice cap would have totally vanished by as early as 2014. Al always credited these claims to “scientific studies” but he never told his audiences that not everyone agreed with the claims and he has never admitted that this vanishing of the Arctic Ice Cap never followed the path he claimed was inevitable.

    It appears that the headmaster at Western Springs is the major promoter of these beliefs in his (her?) students. I think the student concerned would be a great deal better off if, instead of taking the day off school and marching, he spent the time checking up on whether the stories he has been fed are supported by the facts.

    That Climate Change is a concern that must be addressed is correct. That many of the tales about the effect are fantasy but are believed by young people is something we should be worried about even more.

    • BM 11.1
      15 March 2019 at 12:11 pm

      I think this is what National should have tried to stamp out during its last term.

      You can’t give extremist teachers carte blanche to fill kids heads full of lies and exaggerations, what you heard from this young boy is proof of that.

      Whoever is teaching this stuff should be driven from the teaching profession before they pollute the minds of any more kids

      Kids believe their teachers are telling them the truth, they’re teachers why would they lie? it’s a very privileged profession that has to be strictly policed otherwise we end up with this sort of nonsense.

      • mac1 11.1.1
        15 March 2019 at 12:17 pm

        Better that critical thinking be taught in schools, and logic, and debate, and history, and how to conduct an argument.

        Then we might not get tripe like this generalising, ad hominem rubbish.

        “This is nothing more than a Friday afternoon off school, typical virtue signalling left wing bullshit that achieves nothing.”

      • Michelle 11.1.2
        15 March 2019 at 1:02 pm

        stop blaming the teachers no wonder we don’t have enough teachers

        • BM 11.1.2.1
          15 March 2019 at 1:08 pm

          We’ve got teachers coming out the wazoo, ask any newly graduated teacher how hard it is to find a teaching job.

          • Sam 11.1.2.1.1
            15 March 2019 at 2:02 pm

            My reply would be Seek.co.au starting rate $50k-$80k

            supercalifragilisticexpialidocious <<< that would be $80k

            Students reply: Y and Z. No I know my ABC's next time won't you sing with me<<< that's worth $80k

            Civic duties: that’s priceless

    • te reo putake 11.2
      15 March 2019 at 1:18 pm

      We’ve put up with the fantasy that the market knows best for a couple of hundred years, alwyn. Why should a school kid over-egging things a wee bit bother you?

      • Poission 11.2.1
        15 March 2019 at 1:50 pm

        Because of the incessant discourse between little endians and large endians?

      • alwyn 11.2.2
        15 March 2019 at 4:07 pm

        It is clear that you have not the faintest idea about what Economics says about a Market economy. You were obviously never exposed to the subject of Economics during your school days.
        He is hardly a “school kid” any more though. If he is in year 13 he is probably 17 years old and nearly old enough to vote. I don’t mind “school kids” being ignorant of course. However by the age of 17 they should be old enough to think rationally. After all they won’t all be able to become Labour or Green Party MPs where thinking rationally is unnecessary.

        • te reo putake 11.2.2.1
          15 March 2019 at 4:13 pm

          Oh dear, are you saying that all that Marx, Hayek, Keynes, Galbraith and even little Miltie Freedman I read at uni was a waste of time? Bugger. Should have just stuck with Ayn ‘I want my pension’ Rand I guess.

          • alwyn 11.2.2.1.1
            15 March 2019 at 4:29 pm

            ” read at uni was a waste of time”.
            I’m afraid to have to say, from the evidence of what you say on the subject, that the answer is a resounding YES.
            Sad but true I’m sorry to have to say.
            Did you do better when you switched to a simpler subject, Political “Science” perhaps?

    • Macro 11.3
      15 March 2019 at 3:11 pm

      Maybe he has read a
      book like this
      This is an academic publication produced in the past few years which highlights the ongoing degradation of arable land by industrialised farming practices, whereby the constant cropping of mono crops, applications of fertiizers, pesticides, and herbicides is completely destroying the biodiversity of the soil micro-organisms upon which the fertility of the soil is dependent. Farming is the single largest threat to biodiversity and ecosystem functions of any single human activity on the planet. Yes it is true, if we continue to follow current agricultural practices the ability of the Earth to sustain humanity will be severely reduced. Already over 50% of the Earth’s landmass is used for agriculture. This is under constant threat not only from shoddy agricultural practices, but from intensifying droughts and flooding. Those two scenarios are in fact not incompatible.

      • alwyn 11.3.1
        15 March 2019 at 4:00 pm

        Does that book argue that within 30 years it well be impossible to grow any food at all in Britain. That was what he was saying.

        • Macro 11.3.1.1
          15 March 2019 at 4:41 pm

          There are reports that do actually suggest that scenario.
          https://www.parliament.uk/documents/post/postpn265.pdf
          https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/24/uk-30-40-years-away-eradication-soil-fertility-warns-michael-gove
          https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/the-hidden-cost-of-uk-food-soil-degradation/

          Soil is an essential resource and the source of over 99% of all human and animal food calories. It can be created from by the weathering of parent rocks, as it was initially, but it can take 500-1,000 years to produce a single inch of soil this way and it will take much longer still, before repeated cycles of plant growth and decay make the soil fully fertile.

          Soil contains 25% of global biodiversity and supports an intricate ecosystem of microorganisms, invertebrates, insects and small mammals.

          Yet industrial farming has been a mining operation, plundering organic matter, damaging soil structure and destroying soil biodiversity. Soil scientists have variously claimed that the UK has only enough soil left for another 100 harvests, while globally soils are only capable of producing another 60 harvests, something still relevant to the UK given the extent to which we rely on imported food.

          This doesn’t necessarily mean that all soils will be completely exhausted within that time, but that at the current rate, the productivity of many soils will have declined so much that farmers will be unable to produce enough food for the global population, regardless of how much fertiliser they apply or the type of seeds they sow.

  12. Koff 12
    15 March 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Wide coverage of the demonstrations taking place all over New Zealand which are much larger than any of the organisers expected with some very cogent arguments being made by student leaders, whatever rubbish people like BM and Alwyn are saying.. James Shaw has fronted up for a speech and Q and A at the Beehive. This is an opportunity for Jacinda to show some leadership and join the students and not leave it to Shaw, Grant Robertson and….even Nicola Willis for the Nats!

  13. indiana 13
    15 March 2019 at 12:57 pm

    When I was their age, I remember being taught that the Ozone hole over the south pole was increasing exponentially and we would be burned to death by UV rays…but alas I’m still around and the population has grown, not burned out of existence.

    • Andre 13.1
      15 March 2019 at 1:00 pm

      Do you recall what was done in response to that threat to stop it coming true?

      • indiana 13.1.1
        15 March 2019 at 1:09 pm

        …something about CFCs…but I’m not convinced it made much of difference because the alternative created a new issue.

        https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-aerosols-still-bad/

        • solkta 13.1.1.1
          15 March 2019 at 1:17 pm

          A new issue unrelated to the ozone layer. The article even says that it worked:

          Of course, just because those deodorant sprays and shaving cream cans aren’t depleting the ozone layer

        • Andre 13.1.1.2
          15 March 2019 at 1:24 pm

          The alternative didn’t create a new issue. It almost eliminated the ozone depletion problem caused by CFCs and reduced the global warming potential caused by CFCs.

          For instance, the GWP of R12 is around 10,000, while the GWP of its most common first generation HFC replacement R134a is around 1300. The now preferred refrigerant is R600a (isobutane) with zero ozone depletion potential and GWP of 3.

          But if your broader point is rather than just swapping ingredients, the better response is to reduce or even stop using pointless shit like pre-pressurised aerosol spray cans, well, yes, that’s valid.

    • solkta 13.2
      15 March 2019 at 1:04 pm

      Fuck you must be slow. There was international action taken to ban CFCs (Chlorofluorocarbons) which were causing the problem. Since then the hole has been reducing in size.

      So science identified the problem and hence the solution and action was taken and things improved. Time for a replay with the gases that are the cause of current climate change.

      • Poission 13.2.1
        15 March 2019 at 1:39 pm

        The latest assessment suggests the timeframes for recovery.

        Ozone layer changes in the latter half of this century will be complex, with projected increases and decreases in different regions. Northern Hemisphere mid-latitude total column ozone is expected to return to 1980 abundances in the 2030s, and Southern Hemisphere mid-latitude ozone to return around mid-century. The Antarctic ozone hole is expected to gradually close, with springtime total column ozone returning to 1980 values in the 2060s.

        It also reports that there is an increase in cfc 11 emissions.

        There has been an unexpected increase in global total emissions of CFC-11. Global CFC-11 emissions derived from measurements by two independent networks increased after 2012, thereby slowing the steady decrease in atmospheric concentrations reported in previous Assessments. The global concentration decline over 2014 to 2016 was only two thirds as fast as it was from 2002 to 2012. While the emissions of CFC-11 from eastern Asia have increased since 2012

        China in the frame.

        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/09/mysterious-source-of-illegal-ozone-killing-emissions-revealed-say-investigators

    • BM 13.3
      15 March 2019 at 1:07 pm

      We were going to get incinerated in a nuclear holocaust or if we survived that die a horrible death from radiation poisoning.

      In their defence, it was looking highly likely.

  14. mosa 14
    15 March 2019 at 2:30 pm

    I think the kids should be supported in this action and are prepared to speak out on polices that directly effect them now and the decades ahead.
    So many kids do walk or cycle often in congested roads and are exposed to carbon monoxide as they navigate they way to school and back.
    They have a valid reason to protest and not just sit back ad pretend it is not happening.

  15. mac1 15
    15 March 2019 at 5:27 pm

    Well, I attended the local gathering. As many there at the war memorial as you’d have on ANZAC Day. Secondary, Intermediate and primary students with a hundred adults. Some of us applauded the students as they walked past to lead us into town where they walked down the footpaths to the local MPs office.

    I don’t think he showed.

    The students then chanted loudly outside his office and walked back to the central green space where they chanted some more. They walked back down the centre of the road and the increase in energy and chanting was palpable. These young people were starting to feel their collective strength.

    Great to see in small town, provincial New Zealand.

  16. cleangreen 16
    15 March 2019 at 6:18 pm

    My wife and I attended a gathering in Gisborne today holding two banners saying “save our rail” and to my astonishment young folks were happily holding banners saying “Use rail and save a planet” and I was so very proud of these amazing young as they were loud and very determined to get the message heard out there.

    What was very clear is they they have had a gutsful of the slow pace of action from our politicians so I am 100% behind this splendid sector of our young among us that it has transformed my feelings about our young now that makes me feel that they are are future who will finally fix the politicians lack of action we see all the time.

    No more will Government ever ignore the young who now have a legitimate role in shaping how we go about our life from this day on.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.