Bill English to be elected as National Leader

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, December 9th, 2016 - 222 comments
Categories: bill english, national, same old national - Tags:

222 comments on “Bill English to be elected as National Leader ”

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  1. lprent 1
    9 December 2016 at 6:39 am

    Look, if we can’t have Judith Collins (aka Electoral Death), then Bill English (aka Charismatic Void) will do nicely. I am sure this guy can put accountants to sleep.

    It makes the 2017 election a whole lot more interesting.

    Also see for typical reactions
    The Civilian “20.9% of country thrilled”
    Brian Edwards     “Memo to National Party Caucus: Please Pick Bill. Please, Please, Pretty Please!”

    • Cinny 1.1
      9 December 2016 at 6:53 am

      I’m thrilled, Merry Christmas, bye bye national lead government. Nzer’s don’t want more of the same, but it’s obvious that the Nat Cacus does, because they are freaking out, their whole brand has gone poof. I’m loving this.

      Whale Blubber is seriously putting the boot into Bill, i can see the nat supporters are oh so supportive of the choice, not.

      Hey Billy Boy remember when I protested you in Motueka, yelled all through your one hour speech, drowning you out so your elderly supporters couldn’t hear you. You told me that you had never seen your name on a protest sign before and was secretly delighted to see your name on my sign, well Bill, come back, let’s do it again, I’ve got more to tell the world. Do you remember? I’ve got photos.
      All the people walking past telling me nice things and offering their support, the people calling out ‘fuck john key’ because this one woman protest machine encouraged them to have a say.
      Come back Bill, I’m waiting for you…. best you get Maureen List MP Pugh a new office in Motueka, otherwise, how are you going to hold a meeting?

      Early election is on the cards, can’t wait, I’ve already worked out a question for the meet the candidates debates. Just bring it, we are ready.

    • Phil 1.2
      9 December 2016 at 11:16 am

      Brian Edwards “Memo to National Party Caucus: Please Pick Bill. Please, Please, Pretty Please!”

      It’s almost like Edwards hasn’t noticed we’ve had PM’s after Lange.

      Of the three most recent long-term PM’s, Key exhibits all the charm and charisma of the worst kind of try-hard ‘cool dad’ wanna-be. Clark always appeared ‘distant’ to the point you needed a telescope to see her. Bolger couldn’t work a room to save himself.

      Bill fits neatly into that mold.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1
        9 December 2016 at 11:28 am

        Wow…just wow, talk about being negative

        Key always seems affable, Clark always seemed competent and as for Bolger:

        “Retiring politician journalist Peter Luke said that Bolger was “the most under-estimated prime minister I have come across. He made up for his lack of education by having an innate ability to relate to the aspirations of ordinary Kiwis. And, as many civil servants discovered to their cost, his image of being a simple King Country farmer did not mean that he would not understand their reports and unfailingly point to the flaws in them.”

        • Phil 1.2.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 1:03 pm

          I’m not trying to be negative about English, or any other former PM for that matter.

          I’m just pointing out that when Edwards says fucking stupid things (presumably sarcastically) like…

          Bill is stupendous, charismatic, a master of oratory and, no point in denying it, a real stud.
          Charisma, mastery of the language, sex appeal. It’d be riveting, wouldn’t it?

          … he’s ignoring the fact New Zealand has quite happily voted again and again for PM’s over the last 30 years who pretty clearly have not exhibited many of those traits.

          • UpandComer 1.2.1.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 2:30 pm

            Bill’s a pretty good looking guy in a rugged way. He is charming, and at times I’ve seen him electrifying. He’s sincere and quite endearing. You make a good point, but I don’t think Brian Edwards is correct anyway.

            • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1.1.1.1
              9 December 2016 at 4:33 pm

              Nothing wrong with Bill English’s temperament or measured way of speaking – quite like that in a politician.

              But his neo liberalism is….

            • garibaldi 1.2.1.1.1.2
              9 December 2016 at 4:36 pm

              What do you expect from a friend of Michelle Boag’s? I gave up on Edwards years ago (and turn the panel off the moment they come on).

            • swordfish 1.2.1.1.1.3
              9 December 2016 at 7:41 pm

              “Bill’s a pretty good looking guy in a rugged way. He is charming, and at times I’ve seen him electrifying.”

              Christ O Mighty … I was just in the middle of eating dinner …

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1.4
              9 December 2016 at 7:43 pm

              He’s a dead rat. Eat up: yum yum yum 😆

      • Paul 1.2.2
        9 December 2016 at 4:39 pm

        Edwards is a good friend of Boag.
        Enough said.

    • saveNZ 1.3
      9 December 2016 at 12:14 pm

      I like this comment from Ben Thomas

      “I was listening to Bill English being interviewed as I drove home last night. It was more potent than barbiturates. Future interviews should come with a health warning to those driving.”

  2. David C 2
    9 December 2016 at 6:52 am

    Its a pity Judith didnt sneak into the top Job. It would have made for great entertainment 🙂

    • Macro 2.1
      9 December 2016 at 7:53 am

      Yeah! That’s all it is to you.
      Entertainment.
      Says it all about you and your values really.

      • David C 2.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 8:15 am

        Fuck yeah 🙂

        Judith would do the Job very well, maybe a bit more to the right than is currently on offer with Bill.

        The screaming of the outraged lefties would just be a bonus 🙂

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 8:37 am

          Judith is vile, corrupt and toxic, and the whole nation knows it. She would have made National unelectable and it’s a shame they realise it.

          • David C 2.1.1.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 8:44 am

            “The screaming of the outraged lefties would just be a bonus 🙂”

            🙂

            • Crashcart 2.1.1.1.1.1
              9 December 2016 at 9:02 am

              Your definition of screaming is questionable. Although I have to say if that post is all that it takes to make you happy then I envy you the life of bliss you must lead.

              Simple things amuse simple minds.

            • AB 2.1.1.1.1.2
              9 December 2016 at 9:03 am

              The weak attempt of right-wingers to sound superior would make them a laughing-stock

            • framu 2.1.1.1.1.3
              9 December 2016 at 9:18 am

              so why do you think the nats arent going with judith, david?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1.4
              9 December 2016 at 12:19 pm

              Earth to moron: I welcomed the idea. English will lose the next election too, but Collins embodies National Party values so precisely she’d have made much better sport.

          • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.1.1.2
            9 December 2016 at 7:43 pm

            Basically every credible lefty has at one point said something along the lines of “I almost hope Judith Collins does get to be National Leader someday, I’ve always wanted to see their party implode.”

            Some of us are being a bit more cautious about such ideas on a post-Trump world, of course.

    • WILD KATIPO 2.2
      9 December 2016 at 4:36 pm

      @david c (2)

      How can someone with an elephants foot sneak anywhere , though….?

  3. Incognito 3
    9 December 2016 at 7:24 am

    Bill will kill any euthanasia bill.

    Pardon the pun; it is a sensitive subject, but like John Key it would seem that Bill English is likely to refuse to go certain places because of personal convictions and plain old stubbornness AKA ‘farmer mentality’.

    The difference between National and Labour is, for me: what’s in it for me compared to what’s in it for us?

    • BM 3.1
      9 December 2016 at 8:00 am

      Would never happen in an election year, far too controversial.

      • halfcrown 3.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 8:08 am

        Agree with that BM

      • Incognito 3.1.2
        10 December 2016 at 10:54 am

        I was not referring to (the) election year; John Key had already essentially vetoed a Bill being passed because of people in National caucus like Bill English who are opposed to it. Even Bill’s wife Mary apparently is an outspoken opponent: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11763645

        If Bill English becomes the (re)elected PM next year I think it is highly likely that we won’t get any progress with this sensitive and indeed controversial issue for another term.

        This is disappointing and frustrating given that apparently public support for this has been consistently high for quite some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_New_Zealand#Support

        My point remains that personal views should not get in the way of fulfilling one’s duty as political representative for the good of the whole population. Simon O’Connor is also a National MP and Chairperson of Health Select Committee that is currently taking submissions regarding medically-assisted dying. Mr O’Connor is (a) Catholic and completed his training to become a priest but was not ordained. Clearly it does not prevent him to do his job 


        Lastly, controversial issues are defining issues IMO. It is a pity that the political ‘leadership’ in NZ is marked by lack of vision, courage, and a will to change things and just plays it safe all the time, which comes at the detriment of many in our society. But apparently this is what voters don’t mind or even like, according to Audrey Young today in the NZ Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11763876

  4. ropata 4
    9 December 2016 at 7:37 am

    Headline should be:
    “Bill English to be elected appointed as National Leader”

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    9 December 2016 at 7:38 am

    On environmental issues; climate change, mining, GMO etc. Bill’s views were formed on the farm. Ask Southland farmers about those issues and you’ll know where Bill’s coming from.

  6. HDCAFriendlyTroll 6
    9 December 2016 at 7:47 am

    Oh the irony. The person responsible for giving Little the biggest chance at being prime minister is the person the Left has despised the most.

    • lprent 6.1
      9 December 2016 at 10:12 am

      Judith Collins dropped out – what are you talking about?

    • Matthew Whitehead 6.2
      9 December 2016 at 3:05 pm

      Yeah English is far from being the most despised figure in the National Party, (that’s Collins, hands down) let alone by the NZ left in general. (I’m pretty sure that’s actually Winston, although it’s a weird love-hate relationship with him so you have to pick your time right)

      • WILD KATIPO 6.2.1
        9 December 2016 at 4:56 pm

        @Mattew Whitehead (6.2)

        Pullyer Benefit wins a consolation award for runner up in a category all of her own for the most despised National party figure due to her outstanding under – performance over the housing crisis – and the outlandish fetish she has of wearing fake leopards skins in an age of conservation awareness…

        • ropata 6.2.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 5:21 pm

          Parata and Tolley are mounting a strong challenge for the uselessness award

        • Matthew Whitehead 6.2.1.2
          9 December 2016 at 7:57 pm

          Paula Bennet definitely deserves some hatred, (mostly for pulling the ladder up after herself in terms of yanking training allowances away from other women trying to eventually get off a benefit- there’s a very special place in hell as far as I’m concerned for people who forget what it’s like to live in hardship) but she won’t be anywhere close to contending for the top spot until/unless Collins resigns.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.2.1
            9 December 2016 at 8:39 pm

            there’s a very special place in hell as far as I’m concerned for people who forget what it’s like to live in hardship

            I think you’ll find that Pullya Benefit never lived in hardship. Back when she was on the DPB our welfare system still provided people with enough to live on. Sure, it wasn’t easy but it was enough.

            Of course, a lot of the reason for it being not enough any more is because of the cuts that she’s made.

            • ropata 6.2.1.2.1.1
              10 December 2016 at 11:39 am

              And the costs of living have shot up way past any commensurate benefit increase
              Auckland rental and house prices over the past 20 years

              Barfoot & Thompson’s average letting fee (weekly rent) has increased by 96%, going from $249 to $488
              In the same period of time, the average sale price has increased by 225%, an increase from $220,577 to $718,852.

              That’s from a report published in 2014. Things have gotten worse since then

            • Matthew Whitehead 6.2.1.2.1.2
              11 December 2016 at 5:56 pm

              There’s a difference between actual material hardship and hardship in general. I imagine Paula had a fair amount of experience of status anxiety and financial shame, and that she’s learned the wrong lessons from that. (ie. “I will never be poor again” rather than “society should provide for everyone”)

              It’s a totally fair point though that being on a benefit today vs back then is a very different experience and it’s well-taken.

  7. b waghorn 7
    9 December 2016 at 7:48 am

    if we have to have a nat pm , i guess old bill is better than what else was on offer, he seemed to take a dim view of keys use of slater and co.
    And let’s face it key was probably unbeatable in the next election ,it’s going to be interesting to see where bill takes the nats,

    • BM 7.1
      9 December 2016 at 7:55 am

      Do you think having Bill English in charge will help with the rural vote?

      • Robert Guyton 7.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 7:59 am

        What help does the “rural vote” need?
        Dyed in the wool, that.

        • BM 7.1.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 8:05 am

          Apparently, farmers are getting a bit grizzly, feel like they’re not being listened to.

          Peters election strategy was going to be centred around targeting the rural vote, having English in charge may encourage many swing voters to stay with National.?

          • David C 7.1.1.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 8:09 am

            Peters is too fucking lazy to go around and talk to farmers.

            Unless there is whiskey involved of course.

            • marty mars 7.1.1.1.1.1
              9 December 2016 at 11:43 am

              ha – all key needed was a pony tail and he’d settle for the tail of a pony…

            • Red Hand 7.1.1.1.1.2
              9 December 2016 at 6:55 pm

              Farmers are too busy to talk to Peters, whiskey or no whiskey. And what would they ask for that he could deliver after the 30 odd years he’s had making fuck all difference ?

          • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1.2
            9 December 2016 at 8:23 am

            Farmers getting grizzly? Get away!
            Bill’s crew have been selling New Zealand farmland off to foreigners like there’s no tomorrow, so grizzly? You bet! Peter’s will stir that grizzle into a storm aimed at Bill, who after all, was/is part of the flog-it-off team.

          • Matthew Whitehead 7.1.1.1.3
            9 December 2016 at 3:07 pm

            People will care about whether they’re actually listened to, not whether the PM was once one of theirs. They all know he’s essentially a banker now.

            It’s just a matter of whether they’re angry enough to consider their other options.

          • swordfish 7.1.1.1.4
            9 December 2016 at 7:50 pm

            “Peters election strategy was going to be centred around targeting the rural vote,”

            More centred on Provincial Cities, I would have thought.

      • b waghorn 7.1.2
        9 December 2016 at 12:16 pm

        most farmers blindly vote national , despite the fact i’ve had two respected cockies tell me farmers always do better under labour , so i think the nats could run attila the hun for pm and they would still get the rural vote

      • WILD KATIPO 7.1.3
        9 December 2016 at 4:58 pm

        @ BM (7.1)

        Sure.

        People will be flocking to NZ First in droves from here on in.

  8. Robert Guyton 8
    9 December 2016 at 8:00 am

    English is a city boy, every Southland farmer knows he hasn’t been “looking the sheep” for decades.

    • Red Hand 8.1
      9 December 2016 at 6:41 pm

      Southland farmers haven’t been “looking the sheep” for decades. Too busy dairy farming.

  9. Tarquin 9
    9 December 2016 at 8:08 am

    Whaleoil isn’t happy, that has to be good news for everyone.

    • David C 9.1
      9 December 2016 at 8:11 am

      WO is a funny chap.

      Absolute blinkered hypocrite, does he actually think he HELPS Judith by throwing his toys like this?

      • BM 9.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 8:17 am

        Yeah, she must wish he’d just fuck off and leave her alone.

        A slater endorsement is the kiss of death.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 8:33 am

          Too late. She knew he was toxic: that’s why she advanced his interests. They’re aligned with hers.

        • AB 9.1.1.2
          9 December 2016 at 9:34 am

          There’s no evidence at all that she wishes that. Quite the opposite if anything. Like attracts like.

          • Matthew Whitehead 9.1.1.2.1
            9 December 2016 at 3:19 pm

            Indeed. She was offered a few chances during the short contest to distance herself from Slater and she refused to take all of them.

            Either she likes being in bed with him or he’s got some blackmail material on her. I’m not sure which option is worse tbqh.

    • Cinny 9.2
      9 December 2016 at 8:24 am

      IKR and it’s super amusing. Especially reading all the comments from nat supporters whom don’t want to support the blues anymore, because their leader gave up and English is in charge.

      Oh dear Whale Blubber you are upset… do you know something boy? I bet you like to think you do.

      Some of Slaters recent comments….

      ” Labour may be led by a fool but he isn’t evil or inherently dishonest. Bill English is both.”

      “Bill English is a nasty vindictive man who holds grudges for years. He gets others to do his knifing and smiles like he knew nothing about it.
      He was a disaster last time and will be a disaster this time. I couldn’t care less that he is Catholic, he is a nasty vindictive man. If you only knew what has gone on the past couple of days then you would shocked”

      “Nicky Hager has finally won.
      This blog (WO) will get stronger with a Labour/Green/NZ First government.
      It isn’t what I want, but I am telling you that is what you will get. A greatly diminished National party.”

  10. Tiger Mountain 10
    9 December 2016 at 8:29 am

    have you dick pounders above lost your bookmark for kiwiblog or something?

  11. Ad 11
    9 December 2016 at 8:31 am

    Bill English will do a pretty good job.
    I’d like to see Bridges as Deputy rather than Bennett.

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1
      9 December 2016 at 8:47 am

      To me hes the best (for lack of a better word) of a bad situation, Coleman (my choice) has about as much charisma as Bill but at least Bill has the respect of being one of the best finance ministers NZ has ever had and Jude (who would have been awesome) has been unfairly targeted by the left and is thus a bit tarnished

      So by default its Bill but I guess, in trying to salvage something positive, he’ll be able to work with Winston so even National drop down to 40% they’ll still be able to form a government with NZFirst

      Why john why? Why did you have to go, a fourth term was yours for the taking…oh the humanity

      • Andre 11.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 8:59 am

        Do we need to set up a support group for you?

      • b waghorn 11.1.2
        9 December 2016 at 12:24 pm

        jude unfairly targeted my arse puckie , the horrible cow is isn’t fit for politics unless she moved to some african third would outfit ,
        every time you talk here up you lose a bit more credibility as being someone who gets politics.

        • Puckish Rogue 11.1.2.1
          9 December 2016 at 12:44 pm

          Its true I do have a blind spot when it comes to Jude, she will be PM one day, oh yes she will 🙂

          • b waghorn 11.1.2.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 12:48 pm

            leader of the nats when they lose their second election in 2020 to Mr Little is more likely to be her future.

            • Puckish Rogue 11.1.2.1.1.1
              9 December 2016 at 1:02 pm

              I don’t know about that, I can easily see a National/NZFirst government leading for another two elections

              • b waghorn …
                9 December 2016 at 3:17 pm

                do you think key quit to make your scenario possible? not that i think it will happen.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  9 December 2016 at 3:50 pm

                  That’s a tough one to answer…I think no, I think he just didn’t want to be PM anymore. I’m not sure why he did that when he would have won a fourth term but he obviously marches to the beat of his own drum

                  I think he gave great consideration to all the factors surrounding his resignation and probably considered Winston to be a happy coincidence

          • Matthew Whitehead 11.1.2.1.2
            9 December 2016 at 3:23 pm

            If Judith ever gets a chance to be passed the PM baton (presumably by assassinating English before he can call for the election next year) she’ll lose the next election so fast it’ll still be spinning by the time the Leader of the Opposition gets ahold of it.

    • swordfish 11.2
      9 December 2016 at 8:01 pm

      “Bill English will do a pretty good job. I’d like to see Bridges as Deputy”

      Two social conservatives leading a Party that won the last 3 Elections partly by making significant in-roads into morally liberal sections of the swing vote.

      From a Left point of view – that sounds good !

  12. Siobhan 12
    9 December 2016 at 8:54 am

    Bill on Radio NZ this morning declaring his abhorrence of ‘injustice’.
    So looking forward to some resolution on Pike River, a full inquiry on abuse in State Care, proper funding in Health Care, so, you know, hard working people don’t go blind and lame waiting to see the specialist……oh the list goes on.
    But luckily Bill, a man of fine Roman Catholic morals and principles, he’ll see us right.

  13. marty mars 13
    9 December 2016 at 9:15 am

    Bill is a good choice – for the left – thanks gnats, thanks keyhole.

    • BM 13.1
      9 December 2016 at 9:30 am

      Why?, I would have thought having a more staid person in charge would help Nationals chances.

      He’s up against Andrew Little, who’s biggest selling point was going to be his staid non-flashiness.

      You’re going to get that in spades with Bill English, so why change?

      • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 10:09 am

        Plus Winston Peters will be able to provide all the charisma and personality National requires 😉

        • BM 13.1.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 10:21 am

          Yep, the straight guy/funny guy combo, always a winner.

          Winston can be the new JK.

          • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 10:31 am

            Well its funny but originally the left wanted MMP because it’d make things “fairer” and by fairer they mean they’d be in power more often but its the right that seems to have adapted MMP better

            Of the seven elections held under MMP National have won four and look good to extend that to five from eight elections

          • WILD KATIPO 13.1.1.1.2
            9 December 2016 at 5:06 pm

            ” Yep, the straight guy/funny guy combo, always a winner.

            Winston can be the new JK. ”

            ……………………………………………………………………………..

            @ BM (13.1.1.1)

            Except Peters hates neo liberalism.

            And Bill English IS neo liberalism.

          • swordfish 13.1.1.1.3
            9 December 2016 at 8:05 pm

            BM “Yep, the straight guy/funny guy combo, always a winner.”

            Puckish Rogue = Good Cop ?

            BM = Bad Cop ?

      • marty mars 13.1.2
        9 December 2016 at 10:36 am

        English has already shown he doesn’t have what it takes. Little will make him look even more out of his comfort zone – it’s gonna be mayhem – little has got a sense of humour and a glint in his eye – with Bill in front of him not key he will be smiling.

        • BM 13.1.2.1
          9 December 2016 at 10:47 am

          Yeah, what would Bill know it’s not like he’s been helping to run the country for the last 8 years in conjunction with one of the best and most popular PMs NZ has ever had.

          Up against Andrew Little who only made it in last time as a list MP by the skin of his teeth ,was handed the labour leaders job by the Unions and has taken labour to it’s lowest polling position in the history of the party , you’re right he hasn’t got a chance

          • marty mars 13.1.2.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 11:12 am

            You just said it – key was the man, Bill’s a backroom dude. You don’t bring the backroom to the frontroom for a number of reasons but hey – good move gnats – for the left!!!

            Edit – whats the problem anyway bm, you righties happy, me leftie happy – you sound a little desperate, like you may not actually be happy – is it that the slippery snake is feathering his own nest and leaving the pigs to the muck, like bleating sheep the fish is on the hook and no amount of rat eating will get the cats paws clean.

            • Puckish Rogue 13.1.2.1.1.1
              9 December 2016 at 11:18 am

              Key v Clark was great viewing, Key v Goff was entertaining, Key v Cunliffe was compelling

              English v Little is going to be of interest to masochists and insomniacs only

              • marty mars …
                9 December 2016 at 11:41 am

                May be interesting to those who care who leads the country – not many gnats in there I’d agree – more interested in what’s in it for them.

                I see a polite, friendly, calm, and reasoned debate – which will degenerate into baiting, insults, smears, loud voices, pushing and swearing – only from john campbell though. The pillars will stand there looking unconcerned…

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  9 December 2016 at 2:31 pm

                  I think someone might need to check their pulses half way through to make sure they’re both alive

                  • marty mars …
                    9 December 2016 at 3:19 pm

                    maybe the deputies will pull up their pants and get into it too, to liven it all up – they could be gooses to bill and andrew maverick’s.

                • WILD KATIPO …
                  9 December 2016 at 4:22 pm

                  Well said… marty,… I think its high time we got rid of a lot of these egotistical wannabe rock stars and got back to a more measured and civil approach in politics…

                  And if boring politicians means that’s what we need to achieve that – so be it.

            • Matthew Whitehead 13.1.2.1.1.2
              9 December 2016 at 4:00 pm

              Yeah he’s trying to convince himself not us, lol.

        • UpandComer 13.1.2.2
          9 December 2016 at 2:34 pm

          The problem for Little is that Bill has all of his strengths, but has additional qualities. Bill is an intellectual. Bill is humble and affable, and his laconic speech isn’t forced. If you want to compare the calibre look at Little’s speech in reply on the budget debate for the last budget, then watch Bill’s response later in the debate. It was quite astounding.

          • marty mars 13.1.2.2.1
            9 December 2016 at 2:48 pm

            put a link up I’d like to look at that.

            Bill has had key running interference and has had it cushy. When he is running out there all alone in the spotlight he won’t like it, won’t do well at it, and in fact will probably avoid it. That may actually be all good.

            The more I think about it the more I am looking forward to these debates between little and english (if he is in fact still there by then).

      • weka 13.1.3
        9 December 2016 at 11:12 am

        I think Collins was potentially more of a win for the left, because she would have been hated by so many centrist and swing voters. But she would also have caused a a lot of chaos and drama, too much, and we don’t need a chaotic election. We need one where people can focus on which are the best parties to run the country.

        English vs Little, two steady as she goes, sensible leaders. Which means the debate will be around policy and messaging not personalities. That’s a good thing for NZ and for the left.

        (if Gareth Morgan stays in, that will be the dramatic element).

        • Puckish Rogue 13.1.3.1
          9 December 2016 at 2:28 pm

          So Finally got round to watching Morgan v Henry and all I can say is Morgan should hire someone to speak for him…that voice makes him hard to be taken seriously

          Yes I am shallow, why do you ask?

          • Phil 13.1.3.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 2:41 pm

            [Morgan’s] voice makes him hard to be taken seriously

            Counterpoint: John Major was UK PM from ’90 to ’97 despite sounding exactly like every hack comedian’s impression of a reedy upperclass english twat.

          • ropata 13.1.3.1.2
            9 December 2016 at 4:19 pm

            I seem to recall a prominent recent politician that talked in a tumble of jargon, slurred and sounded like he had a mouth full of marbles. Was quite popular I think.

            But JK would never have been ruffled by Paul Henry’s antics, he would probably have stepped back and asked Henry if he wanted the interview to continue or not, because he was being extremely rude

          • Naki man 13.1.3.1.3
            9 December 2016 at 7:28 pm

            “So Finally got round to watching Morgan v Henry and all I can say is Morgan should hire someone to speak for him
that voice makes him hard to be taken seriously”

            True, a face like a dropped mince pie isnt helping either.

        • WILD KATIPO 13.1.3.2
          9 December 2016 at 5:27 pm

          @ weka…

          I’m with you on that… Collins… only good for the scandal bait. Nothing more. We don’t need that sort of thing in this critical era for NZ.

          I don’t mind English in some ways, I recall for publicity reasons he got into the boxing ring… for a charitable cause a long time back. For publicity as well , obviously ,… but the guy gave it a go and showed he wasn’t all shallow tinsel like the last idiot we’ve been continually embarrassed by. Nor was he a pony tail puller.

          Thank goodness the corporate show pony’s gone.

          Halle – bloody – lujah !!!

          I certainly dont mind English’s much talked about ‘ blandness’.

          Fact is,… regarding issues of politics that shouldn’t even be an issue . I’ll defend English from that point of view as I do Andrew Little,… another one described as being ‘ bland’.

          It is just unfortunate that Bill English is disadvantaged by being an adherent to the odious , contemptible ideology of neo liberalism. It also didn’t help that ( quite rightly ) he earned himself the title of the ‘ Double Dipper’ .

          He should have known better.

  14. Morrissey 14
    9 December 2016 at 10:11 am

    The most devastating dismissal of Bill English came from Helen Clark on 23 May 2002, following a disastrously inept speech by the double dipper during the Budget Debate. The chamber was waiting for her to deliver the coup de grĂące and, with an exquisite sense of timing, she obliged:

    “The leader of the Opposition is looking forward to an election like a turkey looks forward to Christmas.”

    http://www.vdig.net/hansard/content.jsp?id=94034

    What Hansard fails to record is the absolute thunderstorm of hilarity and derision of Bill English that followed those words. That speech more than any other showed that English was finished.

    Yet the National caucus, in its infinite wisdom, has brought the zombie back to the table.

    Let the hilarity ensue….

    • Rosemary McDonald 14.1
      9 December 2016 at 10:22 am

      Morrissey…does your memory of the ‘Dipton double dipper’ incident extend to a brief comment Butcher Bill made on camera in an on the run interview that went something like….

      Crooked smirk ….”If there’s a loophole you’d be a fool not to exploit it.” More crooked smirking, then exit stage left into the bowels of Parliament.

      I have hunted futilely for this footage….

      • Morrissey 14.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 10:30 am

        That’s a very Trumpian thing to say. Unfortunately for English, he lacks Trump’s charisma.

      • Paul 14.1.2
        9 December 2016 at 11:06 am

        So Christian of him.

      • Graeme 14.1.3
        9 December 2016 at 6:22 pm

        There’s also also a speech from 2002-3 where he said “The National Party is deeply rooted…. ( very long pause in best Lincoln public speaking style) in it’s membership”

        Was delivered to an electorate or grey power meeting in Gore and remember it being broadcast, but could have just been audio on National Radio.

        • Rosemary McDonald 14.1.3.1
          9 December 2016 at 7:40 pm

          Hah! You sure it wasn’t “…deeply rooted……by it’s…”?

          • Graeme 14.1.3.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 10:37 pm

            The delivery was so wooden and forced it was quite funny and has stuck in my mind since. It was pre-internet, and thankfully hasn’t turned up as a gif….yet

            Get what you say about by, the same lot selected Todd Barclay to be our MP

  15. saveNZ 15
    9 December 2016 at 11:57 am

    Natz like to cheat so although great news noticing that the Natz have no suitable leaders to fill Key’s corporate + entertainment jack boots

    English (corporate minus entertainment),
    Bennett (entertainment minus corporate),
    Coleman (void),
    Collins (just plain scary, a bit like Missy from Dr Who)

    I would not count a victory for the left yet.

    Last election Labour should have won, but didn’t.

    I think Labour will win….but only if Labour really work hard to collaborate, not get complacent, read the economic climate that seems to be declining (but not be doom and gloom party – lets solve Natz mistakes with some more taxes for voters!) and not repeat last elections mistakes.

    • garibaldi 15.1
      9 December 2016 at 5:00 pm

      The other thing we need ,save nz ,is some of the media to be on our side for a change. Their relentless sycophancy is extremely hard to combat.

  16. adam 16
    9 December 2016 at 12:08 pm

    I see BM and Puckish are into the denial stage. Although BM does have anger flowing through him at the best of times, so one can never be too sure.

    • Infused 16.1
      9 December 2016 at 12:58 pm

      Doubt it. If you had your finger on the pulse, you’d see that most nzers don’t want change at the moment. Anyone but bill would be big change. Big change will lose the next election.

      • adam 16.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 1:15 pm

        “Use your aggressive feelings boy, let the hate flow through you.”

      • Psycho Milt 16.1.2
        9 December 2016 at 1:22 pm

        Big change will lose the next election.

        Yes. Key’s whole schtick has been about not doing more than tinkering with Labour’s programme, and it’s served him well. Collins and Coleman maybe thought it was time some of the political capital that Key built up should be spent on an actual right-wing programme, but if they’d got their way they’d have found the political capital was Key’s, not National’s. Looks like a majority of their MPs are aware of it, even if Collins isn’t.

  17. Infused 17
    9 December 2016 at 12:08 pm

    I wonder if Whaleoil will list himself as ‘cry baby of the week’

    he’s a fucking idiot. Anyone else would have sunk National. No one likes Judith Collins. All she would have done is bought back the National of old, which the country has moved on from.

    • garibaldi 17.1
      9 December 2016 at 5:04 pm

      With reference to your previous comment infused, I would suggest your “most NZers ” is not what you think it is. Many people have fallen off Key’s wagon since the last election.

  18. The Chairman 18
    9 December 2016 at 1:13 pm

    Interesting allegations being made over at Whaleoil

    There is now deep divisions inside National.

    English has threatened MPs.

    Hekia Parata is playing a role in threatening and strong arming MPs.

    As a result, anger is brewing within.

    Whaleoil can no longer support National with Bill as leader and expects the Party to suffer an immediate tanking in the polls.

    He believes John Key’s legacy will be one of wrecking a successful government. And Bill English will make Andrew Little look dynamic.

    • BM 18.1
      9 December 2016 at 1:33 pm

      Slater is a deluded fuckwit who still thinks he’s a player , he’s got about as much credibility as that other asshat Martyn Bradbury.

      • The Chairman 18.1.1
        9 December 2016 at 1:38 pm

        One wonders if his agenda is to undermine Bill in an effort to advance Collins?

        Nevertheless, there could be some truth in what he’s asserted.

        It seems the knives are being drawn and Key has even left yet.

        • Infused 18.1.1.1
          9 December 2016 at 2:24 pm

          Likely, but who gives a shit about him. He thinks far too highly of himself.

          I know more about what is going on there than him. Like his back bencher comments. He has no clue.

          • The Chairman 18.1.1.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 4:21 pm

            It will be interesting to see if National suffer an immediate tanking in the polls.

      • Red 18.1.2
        9 December 2016 at 3:40 pm

        Yep he is about as deluded as some here who think suddenly because jk goes Angry Andy, Wobbo and his green buddies suddenly become attractive, The recent polls would suggest otherwise, How much government support is simply the jk factor is not measured, only pm popularity in contrast to Mr 8pc and other contenders Time will tell, as early as the next poll. Here I will suggest the left will be devestated when they realise that their unpopularity is not an external jk issue but simply people are not buying their kool aid Hopefully this will lead to some deep soul searching and reflection on how KDS had blinded them to their real issues

        • ropata 18.1.2.1
          9 December 2016 at 5:12 pm

          I think you’ll find that objections to charter schools, for example, are based entirely on undisputed data, not KDS. Try and get past your emotion and look at the evidence.

          • Carolyn_nth 18.1.2.1.1
            9 December 2016 at 5:21 pm

            Indeed. I’m not overly optimistic about a change of government next year. But some people are very worried about the poverty and inequalities, and hopefully desire for change will build over the next year or two.

            Just listened to a concerned Dunedin Head teacher on Checkpoint, talking about the children who are not getting the help and support they need. She says they can easily end up on the wrong side of the law.

            She talked about the costs of keeping people in prison, compared with the cost of provisions that will give children better futures, and help them stay out of prison.

            Checkpoint tweets on it

        • garibaldi 18.1.2.2
          9 December 2016 at 5:13 pm

          Sooner or later Red(hopefully sooner ) the people will realise that the Right is wrong. Your free market policies of aspirational greed are destroying the decent society, and rapidly at that. Kiwis still have a sense of fairness and will respond accordingly.

        • WILD KATIPO 18.1.2.3
          9 December 2016 at 5:43 pm

          @ Red….. (18.1.2 )

          Hilarious !!!

          Absolutely hilarious !!!!

          Here is evidence of yet another neo liberal right winger who indulges in the use of recently invented acronyms that are not listed in either modern psychiatry or in the official English language …

          However , we do have a word that IS included in the English language and that word fits people like Red perfectly .

          SYCOPHANT.

        • Red Hand 18.1.2.4
          9 December 2016 at 6:49 pm

          Who are Wobbo and Mr 8pc ?

    • UpandComer 18.2
      9 December 2016 at 2:39 pm

      Kanye Slater is just being Kanye. Did you see his post when JK left “Prime Minister’s come and go, but I’ll always remain in Tel Aviv” of something hilarious like that.

  19. Guerilla Surgeon 19
    9 December 2016 at 1:36 pm

    Say what you like about conservatives, they can certainly organise an election. Sorry …. a selection.

  20. rsbandit 20
    9 December 2016 at 6:28 pm

    How many Nat voters will change their vote? I’m guessing: very few. Those who do are likely to go NZFirst, not Labour. Winston will not go Lab/Green/First.

    Labour has a lot of work to do.

    • WILD KATIPO 20.1
      9 December 2016 at 7:57 pm

      Mind you…. the almost guaranteed vote for the National party will be starting to dry up when immigration is returned to a more realistic equilibrium…

      Hard times ahead for National when they have to campaign like REAL politicians now the pony tail puller has left them in the lurch….

    • Grey Area 20.2
      9 December 2016 at 8:03 pm

      Hold on to that thought.

    • Matthew Whitehead 20.3
      9 December 2016 at 8:16 pm

      They don’t need to change their vote that much, they can also just not show up at the election because the only thing they like about the Nats was John Key. That works just as well from the perspective of Labour and the Greens, even if it’s not exactly great for democracy.

      Now, that said, I think polling is likely to prove over the next few months that National is gonna be a bit of a sinking ship post-Key, but I’m willing to revise my position if evidence doesn’t support it.

      It only takes about a 3-5% shift towards Labour and the Greens to have them governing outright, depending on how accurate the sampling from polls has been.

    • swordfish 20.4
      9 December 2016 at 8:24 pm

      “How many Nat voters will change their vote?”

      Latest Fairfax-Nielsen Poll says potentially … 16%

      (admittedly, that’s as a % of all respondents)

      http://subzpsubzp.blogspot.co.nz/

  21. millsy 21
    9 December 2016 at 9:12 pm

    English is a neo-liberal technocrat who opposes public sector provision of anything. That said, he doesn’t look like the sort of guy who will go round getting off on pulling ponytails or making out he is a ‘regular kiwi bloke’.

  22. Whispering Kate 22
    9 December 2016 at 9:14 pm

    With Double Dipper informing us of his intention to increase social spending do not believe one word of it. He has a long term agenda which is drier than a really dry gin – it was only Key who held him back from completely dismantling the public service of this country. Key’s reasoning behind this was not altruisic, he was just a money trader so he gambled with the electorate, tempering down the right wing agenda and kept his eye on keeping in power so he could enjoy the selfies and big noting for which he loved so much. When situations became uncomfortable and he lacked the bottle for it – Pike River, inconvenient earthquakes and probing interviewers like Kim Hill he decided he couldn’t take the heat in the kitchen and piked.

    I think Double Dipper is of the Jesuit kind of Catholic, enjoys being the stern punishing side of the church – he probably self flagellates at night to make himself feel rightous. Be careful, very careful what we wish for – having the jester in charge may not be as bad as what we are heading for with the Dipper calling the chips.