Celebrating the ending of a policy that no longer exists

Written By: - Date published: 9:22 am, May 15th, 2024 - 31 comments
Categories: covid-19, health, nz first, politicans, winston peters, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

Winston Peters has served his anti vaccination supporters well.

And it is perhaps fitting that NZ First included in its coalition agreement with National the ending of a policy that no longer exists and was ended in September 2022. To a group that is convinced that vaccines are not a valid health measure but an attempt by George Soros and Bill Gates and the United Nations to alter peoples DNA working towards the ending of a policy that does not exist probably makes a lot of sense.

But the Government is struggling to work out what to do.

From Craig McCullough at Radio New Zealand:

The coalition is still trying to work out how it will meet its pledge to end all Covid-19 vaccine mandates, given the government mandates were scrapped more than 1.5 years ago.

New Zealand First secured the commitment during negotiations to form a government last year and leader Winston Peters hailed the policy win during his state-of-the-nation speech, in March.

That’s despite Labour having already axed all government vaccine mandates in September 2022.

Asked what additional actions were required to fulfil the promise, a spokesperson for NZ First told RNZ: “our team is still working through the details”.

There are some private health and safety arrangements requiring proof of vacinations. They are there for very good reasons. To override them the Government would have to completely rewrite the health and safety legislation.

Minister of Health Shane Reti has conceded that the mandate has technically ended. Someone should tell Winston Peters.

31 comments on “Celebrating the ending of a policy that no longer exists ”

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  1. Phillip ure 1
    15 May 2024 at 11:15 am

    If it weren't so sad/out of touch..it'd be funny…

    Two sets of clowns…the NZ 1st one demanding this…and the national clowns who agreed to it…

    It sets a new benchmark in political incompetence/ignorance…

    • Phillip ure 1.1
      15 May 2024 at 12:13 pm

      Or ..did national know what they were doing ..

      ..and did they just 'play' Peters…?

      A tight corner for national…they either have to admit to being ignorant of basic facts ..to a disturbing degree…

      ..or fess up to 'playing' their coalition partner ..

      Peters doesn't like being laughed at ..or being 'played'..

      Luxon may have just given Peter's his/enough reason to pull the plug shortly into seymours turn as deputy p.m….

      (Journalists should be following up on this..you’d think..?..)

      • Traveller 1.1.1
        15 May 2024 at 12:51 pm

        You're overthinking this – politicians aren't that smart smiley.

        And when Mickey wrote out Reti's comment, he missed out the full quote. Here it is:

        Speaking to RNZ, Reti said the mandate work was not on "an active schedule", but he had discussed it with officials. He conceded that "technically" all Covid-19 mandates had already ended, but he pointed out some vaccine requirements continued at individual organisations under workplace health and safety policies. Reti said those arrangements were "a little different than a nationwide legislative mandate" and Cabinet still needed to discuss whether its commitment stretched to cover them too. "What was exactly meant by that [coalition agreement]? Was it also meant [to cover] the workplace mandates as well?" he said. "There'll be some discussions and decisions that we'll take to Cabinet and figure our way through."

        Quiet news day meets journalist looking for a story.

        • Darien Fenton 1.1.1.1
          15 May 2024 at 3:01 pm

          Face it. They got caught out being populous dickheads. Are you seriously suggesting they will now go into every workplace and look at their h & s policies?

          • Traveller 1.1.1.1.1
            15 May 2024 at 3:17 pm

            Why would they need to do that? They could simply say there are to be no workplace mandates. It's a non-story.

            • weka 1.1.1.1.1.1
              15 May 2024 at 3:21 pm

              do you mean hospitals would not be allowed to hire only ICU nurses who are vaccinated against influenza etc?

              • Traveller …
                15 May 2024 at 3:41 pm

                No. I mean workplace mandates that are no longer necessary could be removed. There may not even be any for all I know. Which is why it's a non-story.

                • Phillip ure …
                  15 May 2024 at 4:22 pm

                  You mean all those freedom crippling mandates like if you have covid ..please stay at home..?

                  They should do the flu mandate too..!…killing our freedom to come to work spraying germs everywhere..

                  And don't forget the measles mandate ..?

                  Is there still one for the black plague .?

                  Begone with them all…!

                  Our freedom is more important..!

                  NZ 1st should have a new tagline:

                  Nz first:..still catering to the loons…

                  • Traveller …
                    15 May 2024 at 4:25 pm

                    I wasn't in the 'river of filth', Phillip. wink

                    • Phillip ure …
                      15 May 2024 at 6:04 pm

                      What is 'the river of filth'..?

                    • Traveller []
                      15 May 2024 at 6:14 pm

                      Part of a throwaway description of the’loons’ (At least the hangers on) by Michael Wood.

                    • Incognito []
                      15 May 2024 at 6:50 pm

                      That’s a lazy and sloppy paraphrasing (aka twisting) of Wood’s words.

                      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20220216_20220216_16

                    • Traveller []
                      15 May 2024 at 7:22 pm

                      Not at all. Here are his exact words, from the Hansard:

                      But underneath all of that, there is a river of filth. There is a river of violence and menace.

                      Who is he talking about? And before you answer, the read my comment.

                    • weka []
                      15 May 2024 at 8:19 pm

                      Not who, but what.

                      I want to talk about something else very serious in this respect. I’ve been concerned by some of the drifting rhetoric I’ve heard from members opposite in this House about the events in the occupation that we see out the front. The words I say now I say with some precision and I say really carefully, because I think we need to take great care with this. Out the front of this place, there are people who I think we all feel for. There are some people who are confused, there are some people who are scared, there are some people who have been manipulated by an avalanche of misinformation. There are some people who have been hurt over the past couple of years and they’re lashing out. We feel for those people.

                      But underneath all of that, there is a river of filth. There is a river of violence and menace. There is a river of anti-Semitism. There is a river of Islamophobia. There is a river of threats to people who work in this place and our staff. Those are things that we should not in any way be condoning, things that we should be apologists for, things that we should be overlooking with the rhetoric that it’s all just good people and maybe we should talk about it and maybe we should put the mandates up for negotiation. I would say that there is a river of genuine fascism in parts of the event that we see out the front of this Parliament today. I just urge colleagues in this House—decent and honourable members of the centre-right parliamentary parties in this Parliament—that a lot is actually on them to not give succour and comfort to an emergent and dangerous far-right movement. I just ask those members to reflect upon that.

                    • Incognito []
                      15 May 2024 at 9:32 pm

                      And before you answer, the read my comment.

                      Hastily written nonsensical comment.

                      Combine poor reading comprehension with laziness & sloppiness and bias and the result is sub-standard comments such as yours that propagate uncritical thinking because it sounds so Right.

                    • Traveller …
                      15 May 2024 at 8:38 pm

                      @ Weka

                      "Not who, but what."

                      Are you distinguishing between the "violence" and "menace" and "islamophobia" and an "emergent and dangerous far-right movement" as 'movements' and the people who comprise those movements? If so, I understand your point, but I don't agree with it. When I used the term 'hangers on', these were precisely the people I was referring to. However, I don't see them as a coherent group, rather as a disparate collection of individuals with some things in common. A bit like the rest of the protestors Wood was referring to.

                    • weka []
                      15 May 2024 at 10:08 pm

                      Are you distinguishing between the “violence” and “menace” and “islamophobia” and an “emergent and dangerous far-right movement” as ‘movements’ and the people who comprise those movements? If so, I understand your point, but I don’t agree with it. When I used the term ‘hangers on’, these were precisely the people I was referring to. However, I don’t see them as a coherent group, rather as a disparate collection of individuals with some things in common. A bit like the rest of the protestors Wood was referring to.

                      I’m pointing out that all the things he names are things not people. He didn’t say Islamophobes, or anti-Semites. He said Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. He’s talking about politics, world views, and, in the case of threats, behaviour.

                      I think he misjudged despite his obvious care. The river of filth in particular was a mistake and it was unnecessary to the point he was making. He also seems to think that the people he was speaking to, his fellow MPs, would respond in good faith. That might have been reasonable (or not, given what we know about the right’s willingness to fight dirty and without regard for society, as well as Peters’ populism), but it was naive to think that people outside of parliament wouldn’t take ‘river of filth’ personally, or would appreciate the nuance. I think he let the rhetoric get ahead of just saying plain English what the problem was. But nevertheless he did take care to name ideas not people.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      15 May 2024 at 8:54 pm

                      https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/21-09-2022/a-report-card-eight-charts-that-show-how-new-zealand-managed-the-pandemic

                      https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/cumulative-pandemic-deaths-graph-more-effective-1000-words

                      Incognito @6:50 pm [edit: and weka @8:19 pm], thanks for that 16 Feb 2022 Hansard link[/quote] – it puts some helpful flanking context on Traveller's quote – "avalanche of misinformation" and "river of genuine facism" stand out to me, and the twin rivers of "anti-Semitism" and "Islamophobia" also have a certain topicality.

                      "What happened on Wednesday, March 2, 2022, is still raw."
                      https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2022/03/the-collapse-of-camp-freedom/

                      Wood's speech was certainly polarising, and imho NZ could do with less of that – but sometimes, for example during a global pandemic, lines may need to the drawn.

                      The words I say now I say with some precision and I say really carefully, because I think we need to take great care with this. Out the front of this place, there are people who I think we all feel for. There are some people who are confused, there are some people who are scared, there are some people who have been manipulated by an avalanche of misinformation. There are some people who have been hurt over the past couple of years and they're lashing out. We feel for those people.

                      But underneath all of that, there is a river of filth. There is a river of violence and menace. There is a river of anti-Semitism. There is a river of Islamophobia. There is a river of threats to people who work in this place and our staff. Those are things that we should not in any way be condoning, things that we should be apologists for, things that we should be overlooking with the rhetoric that it's all just good people and maybe we should talk about it and maybe we should put the mandates up for negotiation. I would say that there is a river of genuine fascism in parts of the event that we see out the front of this Parliament today.

                      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20220216_20220216_16

                      Late-breaking history: the f word [10 March 2024]
                      Like many, I believed the threat to democracy would abate after we managed to survive the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection, when the country seemed to have been shaken out of its long national nightmare. Surely, I thought, our polarization would diminish and we would set aside animosity in favor of healing and creating a new American middle ground.

                    • Incognito []
                      15 May 2024 at 9:35 pm

                      Provocative yes, polarising not so much, IMO. Of course, the polarising effect was exacerbated by the twisting of Wood’s words by his opponents and adversaries.

                    • Traveller …
                      15 May 2024 at 9:30 pm

                      @ Drowsy

                      Wood's speech was certainly polarising, and imho NZ could do with less of that – but sometimes, for example during a global pandemic, lines may need to the drawn.

                      In general terms, I didn't have any particular problem with the wording Michael Woods used. I had friends join the protest who had been mandated out of jobs (teachers mainly), from whom I have some first-hand accounts of the protests. From memory there were all manner of causes represented besides anti vaxxers/mandates, including Māori sovereignty, and yes even Donald Trump's presidency. What I haven't seen is evidence that the bad actors (the ones specifically referred to by Michael Wood) were coordinated groups. Happy to be proved wrong.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      15 May 2024 at 11:11 pm

                      What I haven't seen is evidence that the bad actors (the ones specifically referred to by Michael Wood) were coordinated groups.

                      Who was/is claiming "the bad actors" (?) "specifically refered to by Michael Wood" "were coordinated groups" – as opposed to 'uncoordinated groups'?

                      "Manipulated" and "movement" could be taken to imply intent and/or coordination, and tbf there was investigative journalism at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight, into whether various protest groups were coordinated, and if so then by whom.

                      Parliament grounds occupation of 2022: Figureheads and factions, one year on [2 March 2023]
                      The disinformation landscape
                      The cast of characters involved in the occupation of 2022 was always a mixture of experiences, motivations and mindsets. While many ordinary participants reintegrated into whanau and communities, some of the bullhorns “latched on to other things” and “pivoted to different narratives, particularly in the sunset of the traffic light framework”, says Sanjana Hattotuwa, who studies all of the groups and individuals above, among others, for his Disinformation Project research.

                      I acknowledge, however, the (imho very remote) possibility that each protest group lacked coordination – that each group was in fact an 'uncoordinated group' before, during and after the occupation.

                      ‘It looks like everyone is leaving’: How police failed at Parliament [20 April 2023]
                      Over Waitangi weekend (February 5 through 7), police staff continued to monitor communication about the protest, including the coordination as the convoy moved down the country. They said it was likely that 300 vehicles would arrive in Wellington on February 8, though the number could be as high as 1000.

                      Just yesterday, my brother informed me that Birds Aren't Real – somehow I have been left out of the loop, and will be looking into it.

                    • Traveller []
                      15 May 2024 at 11:28 pm

                      ”Who was/is claiming "the bad actors" (?) "specifically refered to by Michael Wood" "were coordinated groups"”

                      That refers back to my discussion with Weka, where we were talking about the distinction between individual people at the protest and organised groups. It wasn’t a reference to the various factions protesting mandates and vaccinations. It was referring specifically to those referred to by Wood in his ‘river of filth’ comment, the islamophobes and so on.

                • Darien Fenton …
                  15 May 2024 at 5:27 pm

                  Well why did Reti talk about it then? He was fudging. Yes and of course it’s a non story just like it was a ridiculous part of the coalition agreement.

                • Shanreagh …
                  15 May 2024 at 6:04 pm

                  No. I mean workplace mandates that are no longer necessary could be removed. There may not even be any for all I know. Which is why it's a non-story.

                  Hospitals require a full suite of vaccinations starting right from the time that Drs & nurses start at either med school or at Uni doing their nursing degrees. I've had two nurse flatmates over the years and both of them were fully vaccinated from the start of their training and have a requirement to keep them up to date. From my recollection this included influenza and over the pandemic, Covid. This was the only one that had been added since training.

                  The innoculations they were required to have early on and keep up to date were very similar to those in the schedule for NZers doing an OE 'a mumble mumble' years ago to places like Asia, Africa and Pacific & Indian Ocean Islands. We had to carry them for inspection with our passports

                  The one who showed me all her records relating to vaccinations, during Covid, also told me that they received regular reminders to keep them up to date getting more and more urgent as deadlines approached. She also said nurses did not regard these as harsh as sick nurses could not look after sick people and that if these basic health care requirements were not observed then she had doubts about the commitment. She mentioned that some nurses could not take injections that had an albumen carrier in the vaccine but could usually get something that worked.

                  I am not sure what the situation is with Covid requirements in hospitals, but truly we are in silly season if it is thought that health requirements like up to date vacinations as a condition of employment to keep health professionals healthy are mandates.

                  • Traveller …
                    15 May 2024 at 6:12 pm

                    Thanks Shanreagh. I would not for a moment expect mandates in the health sector to be what is in mind.

                  • gsays …
                    15 May 2024 at 9:18 pm

                    Mate, we are back here again.

                    There is NO requirement for nurses to have the 'flu jab.

                    Highly recommended, yes. Required, no.

                • Phillip ure …
                  15 May 2024 at 6:09 pm

                  Reti is talking absolute waffle…and admitting they don't know what it is…

                  ( It seems to have been a total orifice-pluck on many people's part..)

                  Not to mention the heavy hand of the state butting into human resources in companies .?

                  I thought they were all for small gummint..

                  .. apparently not..

              • Traveller …
                15 May 2024 at 10:45 pm

                "I’m pointing out that all the things he names are things not people."

                Ok. I see people in those things, consistent with my view that I haven't seen any evidence of organisation. But I hear what you're saying.

                "I think he let the rhetoric get ahead of just saying plain English what the problem was. "

                Perhaps, and in the face of heightened emotions and political opportunism, in hindsight he may have used different words. But at face value, I certainly understood what he meant.

                As I have said in another comment, I have friends who were mandated out of jobs and joined the protests. Interestingly they have never expressed concerns about what Wood said.

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2
    15 May 2024 at 10:06 pm

    Some of NZ first/Winston's conspiracy supporters ?….and what they fantasise to happen

    Nuremberg 2.0's strange path to New Zealand

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300917125/nuremberg-20s-strange-path-to-new-zealand

    And a tip of the hat ..to standardista Adam who first linked (new to me) BHN

    The debate is over. The Labour Govt during COVID was world class and saved thousands of lives.

    Hanged from conspiracists gallows ? Fuck off.

  3. georgecom 3
    19 May 2024 at 5:25 pm

    the perils for Winston First and anyone else who takes the first step into a quagmire infested with conspiracists and nutty theories. The first step or 2 might feel like you are still ok but a few more steps in and you find yourself up to your waist and still sinking.

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