Christchurch carpers and moaners

37 comments on “Christchurch carpers and moaners ”

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1. calltoaccount 1

   12 September 2012 at 1:29 pm

   Looking at the comments on the Stuff version of this article, I really, really hope one of these people gets the chance to explain to Brownlee, twelve inches from his face, why this is so wrong.
2. vto 2

   12 September 2012 at 1:33 pm

   .
   The power has gone to his head.

   The power has gone to the head of this entire government.

   and that means game’s up
   • mike 2.1

     12 September 2012 at 2:50 pm

     Nah, Gerry has always been a bullying narcissist. As such he’s always a heartbeat away from putting someone down. “Shut up you loser,” is the standard response when narcissists are challenged.
     • Drakula 2.1.1

       12 September 2012 at 9:32 pm

       “Narcissist”? more like psychopath!!!
       • mike 2.1.1.1

         13 September 2012 at 12:15 am

         It’s a fine line. Narcissists and psychopaths share many characteristics, and one can be both.

         But in general and simplistic terms Narcissists are in love with themselves and expect to be adored by others. They will usually bully and belittle others to ensure that that happens. That’s why Gerry just couldn’t help himself and had to have a go at those who were refusing to STFU. They usually see themselves as wonderful amazing people, while others usually see them as arrogant bullies.

         Psychopaths are more turned on by controling and manipulating others, and gain a pure enjoyment from seeing fear, confusion, and pain in others, (especially when they themselves have caused it whether directly or indirectly). The pure psychopaths have been practicing the exploitation of weak spots in normal human emotions from a young age, and have developed this ‘skill’ to a level that most people simply do not appreciate. They usually take on a persona that they have learned is condusive to getting others to trust them. Unlike narcissists they can appear to be warm, caring, and empathic people, although there are many styles of psychopathic personalities.

         I’ve seen narcissism as a failure of empathy (they can’t see things from your viewpoint, only theirs), while psychopathy is a failure of conscience. While ‘inability to empathize’ is commonly listed as a trait of psychopathy, I’ve read more than one claim that they can see another’s viewpoint, they just don’t care about it. It’s just more information about your emotional state that they can use to f*ck you over more efficiently.
         • Urban Raskal 2.1.1.1.1

           13 September 2012 at 3:51 pm

           Interesting TED talk on the subject. Essentially he find most people can define themselves as psychopaths or sociopaths.

           http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_strange_answers_to_the_psychopath_test.html
           • mike 2.1.1.1.1.1

             13 September 2012 at 9:08 pm

             Anyone can define themselves as anything they like.

             Hmm shall I trust this entertaining celebrity journalist or Dr Robert Hare who has been studying psychopathy for 35 years?

             I read all about Jon Ronson visiting ‘Tony’ a while back. He’s not totally pointless, (psychologists should guard themselves against pushing people into diagnostic boxes), but ultimately his anecdotal argument proves exactly squat. I’m not saying it never happens, but to try and paint all of psychiatry with this brush is going way too far.

             In the comments this guy’s contribution kept getting recommended, he basically says it all.

             Anthony Townsend: “A visually striking and rhetorically powerful talk. However, I’m afraid that I must forward my opinion that this talk is peppered with gross oversimplifications and distortions of psychiatric and psychological diagnostic procedures and practice. Blind adherance to criteria and checklists has never been the practice of mental health professionals nor are grey areas overlooked. The DSM-IV-TR is here presented as a ‘bible’ of mental health when, in fact, it is simply a descriptive taxonomy intended to supplement professional assessment and treatment planning rather than exclusively inform it. I did enjoy this talk but I feel that Ronson fell into the very trap that he mentioned at the outset: He took a misinformed and superficial glance at the meantal health profession and explored those fringe elements unaided by trained professionals who could speak to the contrary. As a practicing clinician I can attest to the value of diagnostic manuals but it should be noted that professional judgement, recognition of the subjective meaning of the patient’s experiences and sources of collateral information all work together to create a picture of an individual’s mental state. While Ronson pursued an interestin topic, I feel that his sources were misinformed, his data biased and his motives perhaps misguided as he came to pursue that which is interesting rather than that which is true.”

             “
3. Colonial Viper 3

   12 September 2012 at 2:01 pm

   I’m glad the people of Christchurch had the common sense and self respect not to vote Brownlee in again. Oh wait.
   • vto 3.1

     12 September 2012 at 2:05 pm

     Tell me about it cv. Just like voting Parker back in. Non-thinking loonies…
     • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

       12 September 2012 at 2:23 pm

       I know democracy is a great thing and all but some days you have to wonder.
     • mike e 3.1.2

       12 September 2012 at 2:30 pm

       VTO A media savvy incumBENT politician remember he was involved in buying overpriced apartments from his tax dodging bankrupt mate and was wallowing lowly in the polls and the Quake allowed the fake oxygen and it was all over for Anderton.
4. calltoaccount 4

   12 September 2012 at 2:31 pm

   VTO/CV: Might be an idea to keep the politics (who voted for what, when) in perspective. This from one of the many comments. Tragic…

   “Until you have seen the state of some of the homes that people are living in you can’t really judge why they are ‘moaning.’ I’ve read the open letter that was sent to Gerry, I’ve read the raw pain and emotion in what people said. It wasn’t carping; it was raw, open, honest and painful to read. I’ve seen people today in tears because this latest comment from Gerry makes them feel absoluely unvalued, unlistened to and incredibly insulted.”
   • mike e 4.1

     12 September 2012 at 2:51 pm

     Call to account the rest of NZ is behind CHCH. Campbell live has been the only lame stream media to expose the lack of progress.
     We here on the standard have been critising Govts indifference for a long time only to be slapped down by those incharge and their cohorts.
     Most of us support either quantitave easing (printing money) to fix the problem quickly or as the greens have put foward an emergency tax ie 1% on low incomes 2to3% on middle incomes and3to5% on high incomes to fix the problem but we are continually derided by Brownlee and Key.
     Key Browmlle and Parker have made the most of the PR oportunities but have failed to deliver.
     More people need to get their stories out so the lame stream media get to Know.
     A protest next time brownlee or Key is in CHCH taking credit when none is due.
     • calltoaccount 4.1.1

       12 September 2012 at 3:05 pm

       Good points Mike e. I was objecting to, what I saw as, a ‘they voted for it, see where it’s got you’ line being developed in the thread. Seemed too hard to me.
   • mike 4.2

     12 September 2012 at 3:05 pm

     Like I said, narcissistic personality disorder:

     “A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

     Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
     Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
     Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
     Requires excessive admiration
     Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
     Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
     Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
     Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
     Shows arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes.”

     (Emphasis mine.)

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
5. fatty 5

   12 September 2012 at 2:37 pm

   “I’m a TC3 resident myself and I’m sick of these people carping and moaning,”

   Brownlee suggesting that he is experiencing the same frustration is ridiculous…next he’ll claim to know what its like for kids to turn up to school hungry…”because I only had two sausage rolls for morning tea”
   • Bill 5.1

     12 September 2012 at 2:54 pm

     No. He’s not suggesting that he is experiencing the same frustration. If you read the entire paragraph in the link, the next sentence makes it clear that Gerry is in fact a victim. And that is over and above what he may or may not be experiencing by being a TC3 resident who has plenty of alternative options at his finger tips….”The constant suggestion that somehow we’ve abandoned these people or forgotten about them is just the most insulting thing they could possibly say,” Mr Brownlee said.

     Poor, persecuted Gerry.
     • mike 5.1.1

       12 September 2012 at 4:13 pm

       “But Mr Brownlee said he was “sick and tired” of hearing complaints.” – It’s all about Gerry. STFU.

       “But one said residents shouldn’t be surprised by his attitude because Mr Brownlee was “arrogant” and “abrasive” when he was a woodwork teacher at St Bedes boys school in Christchurch” – Characteristics pervasive and enduring.

       ”The constant suggestion that somehow we’ve abandoned these people or forgotten about them is just the most insulting thing they could possibly say.”- It’s all about Gerry. Stop insulting Gerry. STFU.

       “He added the survey wasn’t a true reflection of the problem,” – John Key playbook: ‘That report is not reliable, I could point to others that say otherwise.’ “…with the only respondents being people who had time to “buggerise around on facebook all day”” – arrogantly insults and belittles complainants instead of responding to criticism. Reinforces his bloated sense of superiority over the people he is supposed to be helping.

       The evidence is pretty clear.
       • mike 5.1.1.1

         12 September 2012 at 4:35 pm

         This is a guy who tried (unsuccessfully) to get the tax payer to pay his court costs when he unsuccessfully defended a civil assault charge.

         “Documents recently leaked to the Herald revealed National MP Gerry Brownlee had also requested reimbursement of up to $48,000 for the civil assault case taken against him by environment activist Neil Abel in 1999.”

         That $48,000 included the $13,375 damages he was ordered to pay the guy he assaulted. Brownlee:

         “In hindsight, I would have thought ‘oh well, I’ve got this big bill, I may as well see what is possible’. But quite clearly it wasn’t appropriate.”

         Oh yeah and he’s also talented at making NZ lose friends internationally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUZT8UeQdBw (OK this guy isn’t really very funny, but he does pull a good one when he says (I’m paraphrasing) “Mr Brownlee you are a significant person, looks like about three of them.”)
         • mike 5.1.1.1.1

           12 September 2012 at 4:37 pm

           Link: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10636760
     • fatty 5.1.2

       12 September 2012 at 4:21 pm

       I don’t really understand why you say no. He points to the fact that he has a TC3 property, and in the same sentence he suggests that people shouldn’t be moaning. He is pointing to the fact that he is in the same position as himself.

       “being a TC3 resident who has plenty of alternative options at his finger tips”

       I agree, that’s my point…he doesn’t experience the same level of frustration
6. Rosie 6

   12 September 2012 at 4:38 pm

   Surely there is something within a Ministers rulebook(do they have some sort of contract regarding protocol?)) about not attacking, defaming or insulting those they serve. God, if you had any sensitivity, standards or intelligence you wouldn’t need a rulebook telling you how to behave, but maybe they do. This comment is so offensive, callous and unthinking. It’s also highly inappropriate for him to compare his personal circumstances with others and judge them by it. He is in no position to speak this way but then again ministers and our PM often speak in a contemptable way towards its own citizens. Maybe that is considered the norm. Brownlie is a complete fool needs to resign over this comment and his own uselessness.
7. McFlock 7

   12 September 2012 at 5:07 pm

   The Borg are trying a new approach: “I will assimilate you long time!”
8. BernyD 8

   12 September 2012 at 6:59 pm

   He’s obviously been trawling Facebook in his “Spare Time”.
   As everyone here has said, Politicians are meant to “Listen” to citizens, That’s their job.
   But answering people on Facebook, when replying to publicly spoken opinion is not what is required.

   What this tells us is the Nats would all like to be on a benefit playing with themselves all day.
   It’s an un-realised dream they’ve had since childhood, and now it’s too late so they might as well scrap it.

   And yes he’s been working so hard mate, just look at all the great ideas he’s come up with ….

   We can build a business here, here and here, a takeaway bar here, and the Pub goes on the corner ….

   Here look I’ve had an artists impression made up ….

   All the people of Christchurch look at him blankly, confused even, and wonder how much rent the B’stard is losing on his wrecked TC3 home.
9. Carol 9

   12 September 2012 at 8:22 pm

   Anyway….. Gerry has now apologised… sorta.

   Boss said so?!

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-earthquake/7662481/Christchurch-residents-call-for-Brownlee-apology

   Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee has apologised for offending Christchurch’s TC3 residents after saying he was “sick and tired” of their moaning.

   …
   This afternoon he was more contrite:

   “I empathise and sympathise with those people, but I’m also extremely angry at the way some people are characterising the Government as not caring or doing nothing for residents on TC3 land.
   …
   A spokesman for Brownlee said the minister had “no further comment”, before issuing the apology late this afternoon.
   • fatty 9.1

     12 September 2012 at 9:01 pm

     yeah, sorta
10. mike 10

    12 September 2012 at 9:17 pm

    Uh, that’s an apology? I don’t think so. Contrite? What?

    All I see is: I empathise and sympathise with some people, (I’m awesome), but I’m also extremely angry at some people, (STFU). There will be no further comment, I have spoken.
    • gobsmacked 10.1

      12 September 2012 at 9:58 pm

      The apology should come from Stuff and the Herald for calling that an apology.

      Is there any indication anywhere that Brownlee has apologised for his “carpers and moaners” comments?
11. Drakula 11

    12 September 2012 at 9:47 pm

    I hear that there is one suicide a day in Christchurch due to people not being able to get insurance settlement for houses that are not ‘technically’ damaged but are on liquifactioned land causing disease and sickness. Even some businessmen I know of whose insurance increased from $4000 to $14000 and the landlord wants to put up the rent another 5%.

    Is that time to shut the door and walk away?
    • BernyD 11.1

      12 September 2012 at 10:45 pm

      Liquification etc is drainage, open waterways would be the go, but they’d have to dig em deep, with fencing of course.

      Could even use the dirt for new roads etc, put down some kind of gravel plastic layer so more movement can happen underneath if required.

      And build some new housing estates, using drainage cannals.
      Get some geophysicist to find the best routes, a couple of big drainage sumps somewhere and your off. Might be able to litigate the Insurance back down at that point.

      That’s some evil inflation, they should start their own insurance company, they’d make a killing at the old rate. Just have to wait a year or so for the shaking to stop 🙂
    • McFlock 11.2

      12 September 2012 at 10:57 pm

      one suicide a day? Not sure that would be true, given the national incidence was 558 2010-11. One a day would be 365/yr in chch alone.
         
      Attempts is another matter, of course. 
      • Tiger Mountain 11.2.1

        12 September 2012 at 11:51 pm

        There is elongated “passive” suicide also McFlock by various means as well, extended drinking, drugging, bashing, thugging and even malnutrition arising therefrom.

        Sometimes a headline is enough “carpers and moaners” to do the business.
        • McFlock 11.2.1.1

          13 September 2012 at 12:03 am

          Not arguing that everyone’s chirpy and fine, not by any stretch. But “one suicide a day” does not refer to any of self-harm/risky behaviours you mentioned. 
                  
          The trouble with letting rumours blow beyond facts is that it lets the tory swine earn cheap points by pointing out exaggerations rather than addressing the facts that things are really bad.
                   
          Personally, unless various indicators like self harm increase massively over the pre-quake levels, we can’t make any categorical statements until the census next year.  We just don’t know how many people in what sociodemographic groups are in chch at the moment, so we can’t see the health of the community.
          • Colonial Viper 11.2.1.1.1

            13 September 2012 at 12:55 am

            The trouble with letting rumours blow beyond facts is that it lets the tory swine earn cheap points by pointing out exaggerations rather than addressing the facts that things are really bad.

            How can this be a real problem? Because facts or no, the Tories will say what they want and get away with it. If its a credible rumour surely its better to treat it seriously and see if it can be confirmed or denied.

            Anyway you’ve said that its not possible to make any categorical statements that things are really bad, because there are no facts to speak of until they become available with the census next year (which I would dispute, as you are referring to a certain type of fact).

            You imply its better to say nothing, rather than somehow give the Tories ammo.

            Of course, the census may be conducted next year but it won’t be until 2014 that early census statistics are released. That seems a very long time to leave people in limbo and silence.

            The other thing is, how is the census going to tell you that one person a day committed suicide (or didn’t, as the case may be)? Dead people aren’t surveyed.
            • McFlock 11.2.1.1.1.1

              13 September 2012 at 2:57 pm

              Classic example of tory distraction was key’s “show me the money”. A cheap line that wasn’t particularly fair or correct hijacked the coverage of that debate, and was paraded by the media as a stock “action” clip. So if someone says “a suicide every day in chch”, the tories will put it in their hip pocket for when a polly says it – then come out with “no, the coroner disagrees, your numbers are complete bunk, you have no idea what you’re talking about” and then as soon as the polly gets close to making another point the tory pulls out “but you can’t even get the numbers right”. Quoting rumour is a quick way to destroy your credibility.
                  
              It distracts from the actual issue – we know people are in limbo, we know insurance companies are dragging their feet, we know that people can’t find reasonable accommodation. What I am saying is that if the stat is true, provide a source. If it is rumour, don’t use it because it might be a petard that does more damage to you than the tories.
                              
              What we can say at the moment is that the numbers in higher-incidence factors are up, down or the same as pre-quake. If we assume the population is a bit smaller than prequake,  numbers staying the same equals an increase in the rate. However, we can’t be sure that any change in numbers or assumed rate is statistically significant (in the technical sense of the expression).
                 
                      
              Coroners investigate every unexpected death, and determine the most likely cause. If coroners determined 365 chch deaths last year or two, that would mean that the national incidence fell substantially in order to provide a slight overall increase, including chch’s massive proportional increase. But without the population as a denominator, we can’t say whether people in chch are more likely to top themselves than people in dunners or auckland. We don’t know that any higher incidence is due to a larger population as reconstruction workers move in and nobody leaves, or if any increase is a massive increase in rate because the population has halved. 

                     
               
12. captain hook 12

    13 September 2012 at 5:46 pm

    q. what did gerry brownlee wish for when he blew out the candles on his birthday cake?
    a. another cake!
13. millsy 13

    15 September 2012 at 9:00 am

    Some how, when I first heard about the earthquake in Christchurch back in 2010, the first think I though would be that people are going to find dealing with EQC and insurance companies are nightmare, and that is going to be why rebuilding Christchurch is going to be very slow going..

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